State of State Baseball

[Todd4State]

We are well below our standard and I don't think anyone disagrees with that except for maaaayyyybeee Everett Kennard who just thinks we're a bunch of spoiled brats.

The reason to me is very simple. Our pitching coach isn't up to standard. Forget the injuries- although I do think there is something up there because it's not travel ball coaches fault when a guy has arm soreness or dead arm. I'm not there to see what is going on but something is not right there. What we can see- leaving guys in wayyyy too long, not making enough mound visits, and questionable pitch selection- there is a lot wrong. This is reflected in the stats too- our pitching in general is ranked around 13th-14th in most major stats. Our hitting on the other hand is around 5th-6th in the league.

So what is becoming the question is do we fire not only Foxhall but also Lemonis as well? To make an informed opinion we need to step back and look at their roles. People that want Lemonis gone are mad that he didn't already fire Foxhall in the offseason and say the blame starts with him and he signs off on Foxhall's decisions. That is true. But there is a fine line between making managerial decisions and micromanaging. And if Chris was asking for my two cents and he is not nor will he ever do so my recommendation would be to take over the pitching in game decisions. But then the question is will Lemonis fire Foxhall in the offseason? At this point I think there is no question he will. Pitching is only one thing that Lemonis oversees. Defense is last in the league but Mershon has stabilized that and Alford has gotten better as has Highfill. Credit to the staff for making decisions to improve the team through lineup changes and hard work. Plus defense hasn't been an issue consistently while Lemonis has been here. Offensively we're fine. We have power and we steal bases. We can beat teams a number of different ways. Our worst hitters are hitting in the high .240's. And we have some freshmen who are making an immediate impact and that doesn't happen without good coaching. Recruiting has been strong under Lemonis as well.

So again as I have said all season if Lemonis has another losing season- and he might- I think we will fire him.

If he does not I think we just fire Foxhall and let him try with an elite PC.

Now to have a winning season- I'm not talking about regionals or hosting (LOL)- I'm talking about 28-27. He needs to find five more games to win.

We should be able to beat North Alabama and Memphis although Memphis will give us a fight. That puts us at 25 if we do that.

That makes the Governor's Cup important to win. It will give Lemonis a boost because it's Ole Miss. Losing that game will make things worse for him. And it's going to be tougher to win without Dohm or Holcombe available and KC and Nixon having shell shock. On top of that we'll probably start Parker 17ing Stinett. YIKES! I'm glad I'm not a baseball coach relying on him to put out the fire on my seat. I can't make any promises about what I might do if he pitches Lane Forsythe against them in this game. That said- this game is 50/50. We pull off a win and we're probably at 26.

If we do that all we have to do is "that's baseball" two more games out of 12 to get to 28. That sounds pretty doable and it should be except next up we have red hot Tennessee in Knoxville on a short week after we play a midweek against Ole Miss (Thanks Sankey!), then we get Arkansas in Starkville, at LSU, and then A&M. I can't see us winning any of those series except for MAYBE A&M in Starkville. And that's assuming no more pitchers go down between now and then.

So, nothing is a foregone conclusion here. Losing Dohm hurts- and it may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. IF Gartman comes back it means that Holcombe is going to have to take over Dohm's role. Cade has pitched very well as has Loo. Gartman has been fine the first couple of times through. We're going to have to rely on Hunt and Nixon a lot more. Really need one of the freshmen to step up to be honest.

Good luck Chris!

[Skydawg1]

Good luck Chris! Thanks for the natty!

[Mjoelner34]

Yes. Lemonis needs to go too. Even if he fires Foxhall he as well as everybody else knows his job would hinge on the post season next year. What pitching coach worth a damn would sign on to that? He made Foxhall his Woody McCorvey by not shit-canning him after the season last year. Now he has to face the music on that.

[Leroy Jenkins]

"F**k you, F**k me, and F**k everybody, this is F**king bullshit" -Mike Leach




https://youtu.be/sBIEQOzZFNE

[drummerdawg]

How can anyone defend Lemonis at this point? Its way more than pitching. He's responsible for the team and the team is shit.

[Mjoelner34]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Leroy Jenkins again.

[CaptainObvious]

Yeah. About the Offense. Which one can we count on? The one the struck out 14 times on Friday night and has won 1 Friday night game all season? Or the one who is 95% dependent on Homeruns? Stats may not lie but as Paul Harvey would say, They don?t tell <The Rest Of The Story>. As for the pitching, even our starters love to throw the long ball. Auburn only had 39 HRs going into this weekend. They now have 49 coming out of it. 1-2 and 0-2 counts left the yard this weekend. That?s not a weakness. That is a sickness. Our pitchers are all suffering from meatballitis.

[Coach34]

Pitch-calling is atrocious
How many guys we have with good command of a 3rd pitch? It's not many
Leaving people in too long- trying to steal outs and it ALWAYS bites us in the ass
Hardin and Enema were puzzling relief choices Sunday. Ari, myself, and ISeenIt knew disaster was coming when we didnt immediately go to Dohm.

And while we do need a new PC- the questionable moves made with the line-up, when and when not to put on the shift, and other things are problems as well.

[Cowbell]

Waiting this long to play Mershon alone is a fire able offense. He is better defensively than Lane and let's not even get into the offense and energy that he brings

[bulldawg989]

I've seen it asked in a couple of threads here and on Sixpack but no one (outside of Goat's dumbass) will answer the questions of why Lemonis deserves another year or does anyone actually believe his results will be different next year. I don't know how anyone that really wants to keep him at this point, to each his own I guess but there has not been a good argument for keeping him. I hate to say this but it feels like the ones that want to keep him are scared we can't do better and that's worse mindset than thinking Lemonis should get another year.

[Turfdawg67]

I didn't read, but I'm assuming Todd is putting all the blame on Foxhall again? Fire the entire bunch... we suck all around.

[BrunswickDawg]

I've seen it asked in a couple of threads here and on Sixpack but no one (outside of Goat's dumbass) will answer the questions of why Lemonis deserves another year or does anyone actually believe his results will be different next year. I don't know how anyone that really wants to keep him at this point, to each his own I guess but there has not been a good argument for keeping him. I hate to say this but it feels like the ones that want to keep him are scared we can't do better and that's worse mindset than thinking Lemonis should get another year.

I think the results would be the same. However, I think this situation puts us in a hard spot. Our young talent is apparent. We have another top 10 recruiting class coming in. If we don't know that we can land an elite level replacement, I'd stick with Lemonis and replace Foxhall. Reason being if we can only land an unknown we will be facing a total rebuild. An elite coach will be able to keep the talent we do have (and there is plenty - even pitching) and get what we need to improve. A full rebuild with an unknown will kill the program for years.

[bulldawg989]

I think the results would be the same. However, I think this situation puts us in a hard spot. Our young talent is apparent. We have another top 10 recruiting class coming in. If we don't know that we can land an elite level replacement, I'd stick with Lemonis and replace Foxhall. Reason being if we can only land an unknown we will be facing a total rebuild. An elite coach will be able to keep the talent we do have (and there is plenty - even pitching) and get what we need to improve. A full rebuild with an unknown will kill the program for years.

Finally a well-reasoned response, not sure I agree but I understand your point of view. I'm not convinced Lemonis can coach/manage, even if he gets talent, I don't think he knows what to do with it...if can't develop the talent he gets it doesn't matter. So I guess it really boils down to the confidence of being able to get a better replacement, I think we can and should.

So, what if Lemonis stays, the talent comes and the results are the same? The rebuild is still in play.

[Todd4State]

I've seen it asked in a couple of threads here and on Sixpack but no one (outside of Goat's dumbass) will answer the questions of why Lemonis deserves another year or does anyone actually believe his results will be different next year. I don't know how anyone that really wants to keep him at this point, to each his own I guess but there has not been a good argument for keeping him. I hate to say this but it feels like the ones that want to keep him are scared we can't do better and that's worse mindset than thinking Lemonis should get another year.

Because we know that Lemonis doesn't have direct coaching responsibilities with the pitching staff as far as their development a better pitching coach could very easily turn our program around very quickly. Not saying that the buck doesn't stop with Lemonis or that he isn't at fault. For example- when we got Wes Johnson we had a losing season in 2015. By 2016 we won the SEC. And that was with a thin bullpen.

[Todd4State]

Finally a well-reasoned response, not sure I agree but I understand your point of view. I'm not convinced Lemonis can coach/manage, even if he gets talent, I don't think he knows what to do with it...if can't develop the talent he gets it doesn't matter. So I guess it really boils down to the confidence of being able to get a better replacement, I think we can and should.

So, what if Lemonis stays, the talent comes and the results are the same? The rebuild is still in play.

Lemonis doesn't develop the talent as much as Foxhall and Gautreau do. He more or less oversees the program.

All in all our offensive lineups are not bad. Mershon didn't start the year because of a hamstring injury. Dakota Jordan has made a LOT of improvement this year.

[Captain Falcon]

Right now I am in the camp of keep Lemonis but hire a new pitching coach.

I still believe Lem is and can be a very good coach. It is disingenuous to pretend that he was anything short of outstanding in 2019 and 2021. It is easy to chalk it up to the talent he inherited but he absolutely pushed the right buttons and maneuvered through some big issues those years. I believe if we get the pitching situation under control we can get back to being good again next year. He frankly does not have a choice but to see to it that it happens.

I was willing to give Foxhall the benefit of the doubt for 2022 because of the Sims and Simmons injuries, but you cannot survive two straight years of this.

[KOdawg1]

I know this is unpopular but I think the best thing for us would be to keep Lemonis under the condition that he gets a new pitching coach.

I know. This is unacceptable and embarrassing, but who are we gonna hire? A big name from a big program ain't coming here. We couldn't get one last time and that's when we were coming off an Omaha appearance... not missing Hoover for the 2nd straight year like we are this year. We could get a guy like Justin Haire, but are we sure he could deliver? Nope. We'd be taking a chance with anyone.

Lemonis has won and he's recruiting really well. Our freshmen are setting us up for a solid foundation for the future. Yes he's absolutely shit the bed the last 2 years and that's completely unacceptable. We can blame Fox but the blame mostly falls on Lemonis. But I'm just not sure that blowing it up and starting over is the best course of action.

Fire Foxhall, get a new pitching coach, and give him one more season. Hit the portal hard for arms and don't miss on a Skenes this year. Do that or gtfo.

[sandjunky]

I?ll put my stake in the ground

This program needs a new captain and staff to instill a much better culture and also a better S&C program - you look at our team and the comment ?do you even lift bro?? Comes to mind -

there?s no way Forsyth shouldn?t be over 200lbs right now

[gtowndawg]

A totally new staff and fresh start is the only thing that would get me interested at this point.

[StarkVegasSteve]

It's been stated previously and it's pretty simple what needs to happen

Make Hoover: Lemonis stays as long as he fires Foxhall.

Miss Hoover: Clean House.

I'm of the opinion that we should've cleaned house last year, but we didn't and I'm honestly not real sure we will do it this year even if we miss Hoover. I hope we do it regardless, but I know we won't, because Lemonis isn't it. This staff can't develop. No player we have has progressed from the time they were Freshman to now. Every player we have not a Freshman is the same player they were as a Freshman.

[sandjunky]

Lemonis doesn't develop the talent as much as Foxhall and Gautreau do. He more or less oversees the program.

All in all our offensive lineups are not bad. Mershon didn't start the year because of a hamstring injury. Dakota Jordan has made a LOT of improvement this year.

Given the amount of coaches allowed - it needs to be an all hands on deck development of the program - get off your bucket and get your damn hands dirty

[ScooterDog]

Many of you have suggested good replacement head coaches, but if Lemo stays and Foxy goes, who do you think might be a good replacement pitching coach?

[Leroy Jenkins]

Bert and Ernie over here, lost in the sauce. Just swimming in the koolaid and don't even know what flavor it is.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FubfwrBX0AIQrl9?format=jpg&name=medium

[Captain Falcon]

Many of you have suggested good replacement head coaches, but if Lemo stays and Foxy goes, who do you think might be a good replacement pitching coach?

Corey Muscara at Wake Forest should get the right of first refusal.

Micah Posey at Dallas Baptist would be in the next tier for me.

[Leroy Jenkins]

Many of you have suggested good replacement head coaches, but if Lemo stays and Foxy goes, who do you think might be a good replacement pitching coach?

Phil Brickma, Kent Murphy.

[Ranchdawg]

I?m in the boat to keep Lemonis but Foxhall has gotta go. For some reason I really like Lemonis. And I believe we could do better than Gotro hitting wise. Yes I am aware of offense stats. But how many hitters have really progressed. A few but certainly not majority of players that have come thru the program. Hancock, Clark and Forsythe have done very little improving, if any. They are basically the exact players they were when they were freshman.

[gtowndawg]

Bert and Ernie over here, lost in the sauce. Just swimming in the koolaid and don't even know what flavor it is.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FubfwrBX0AIQrl9?format=jpg&name=medium

Uh oh, is this a Bert Stares reference?

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I?m in the boat to keep Lemonis but Foxhall has gotta go. For some reason I really like Lemonis. And I believe we could do better than Gotro hitting wise. Yes I am aware of offense stats. But how many hitters have really progressed. A few but certainly not majority of players that have come thru the program. Hancock, Clark and Forsythe have done very little improving, if any. They are basically the exact players they were when they were freshman.

Well let's talk about defense- we're the worst defensive team in the conference, Hines hasn't learned to play 1st, Forsythe has regressed, and we thought Hancock could play catcher. All signs of terrible coaching.

If pitching is on Fox, and lack of hitter development is on Jake G, then who does our defense fall on? At some point Lemones HAS to get blame for this

[cujo]

Well let's talk about defense- we're the worst defensive team in the conference, Hines hasn't learned to play 1st, Forsythe has regressed, and we thought Hancock could play catcher. All signs of terrible coaching.

If pitching is on Fox, and lack of hitter development is on Jake G, then who does our defense fall on? At some point Lemones HAS to get blame for this

Is he hurt, too?

[smootness]

I?m in the boat to keep Lemonis but Foxhall has gotta go. For some reason I really like Lemonis. And I believe we could do better than Gotro hitting wise. Yes I am aware of offense stats. But how many hitters have really progressed. A few but certainly not majority of players that have come thru the program. Hancock, Clark and Forsythe have done very little improving, if any. They are basically the exact players they were when they were freshman.

That is not true at all. None of them have had a Brent Rooker-like jump, but they have all improved every single year. Not by absolute leaps and bounds, but Forsythe was atrocious as a freshman and is now passable offensively. Clark was solid but with big holes and has improved to where he is very good. And Hancock was pretty darn good to start and is now very good as well.

[Leroy Jenkins]

If pitching is on Fox, and lack of hitter development is on Jake G, then who does our defense fall on? At some point Lemones HAS to get blame for this

Gotreau coaches infield. Cheese coaches catchers.

[maroonmania]

That is not true at all. None of them have had a Brent Rooker-like jump, but they have all improved every single year. Not by absolute leaps and bounds, but Forsythe was atrocious as a freshman and is now passable offensively. Clark was solid but with big holes and has improved to where he is very good. And Hancock was pretty darn good to start and is now very good as well.

Problem.with Forsythe is he has regressed more defensively than he has improved offensively.

[smootness]

Problem.with Forsythe is he has regressed more defensively than he has improved offensively.

That is fair, I am just talking offense.

[Coach34]

That is not true at all. None of them have had a Brent Rooker-like jump, but they have all improved every single year. Not by absolute leaps and bounds, but Forsythe was atrocious as a freshman and is now passable offensively.

Is he?

2021- Foreskin hit .231 186 AB's- 5 doubles and a HR...56 K's
2023- Foreskin is hitting .248 in 105 AB's...6 doubles and 2 HR's...21 K's

In 2 years he is slightly better now that he has a tad more pop and now grounds out weakly instead of striking out. He needs to go to Delta State and help them make a run at a D-II playoff spot

[sandjunky]

Is he?

2021- Foreskin hit .231 186 AB's- 5 doubles and a HR...56 K's
2023- Foreskin is hitting .248 in 105 AB's...6 doubles and 2 HR's...21 K's

In 2 years he is slightly better now that he has a tad more pop and now grounds out weakly instead of striking out. He needs to go to Delta State and help them make a run at a D-II playoff spot

Defensively he regressed
4 errors in 129 chances in 2022
14 errors in 128 chances in 2023 (with 4-5 more due to home scorer)

[Coach34]

Defensively he regressed
4 errors in 129 chances in 2022
14 errors in 128 chances in 2023 (with 4-5 more due to home scorer)

You also cant ignore his abysmal fielding his freshman year. While he played well in the CWS- he was terrible all season in 2021. I'm pretty sure he has the lowest career fielding percentage in the SEC among guys that start

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Gotreau coaches infield. Cheese coaches catchers.

Ahh yes. If I'm ever an State head coach, I'll make sure to hire terrible assistants all around me so that no blame can fall on myself!

Seriously, we've now listed every single coach Lemones personally hired as being someone that has failed hard at their job. And Lemones -who apparently does nothing himself- obviously can't be trusted to hire assistants.

What do you do with a head coach that can't evaluate his roster, makes awful in game moves regarding pinch hitting and when to pull pitchers, and can't spot quality assistants? You fire him, that's what you do. We don't need a figure head, we need a coach.

[maroonmania]

Defensively he regressed
4 errors in 129 chances in 2022
14 errors in 128 chances in 2023 (with 4-5 more due to home scorer)

Not only that, in 2021 in Omaha he was flawless defensively. Probably don't win the natty without his stellar play at SS. Boy, does that seem like a distant memory.

[smootness]

Is he?

2021- Foreskin hit .231 186 AB's- 5 doubles and a HR...56 K's
2023- Foreskin is hitting .248 in 105 AB's...6 doubles and 2 HR's...21 K's

In 2 years he is slightly better now that he has a tad more pop and now grounds out weakly instead of striking out. He needs to go to Delta State and help them make a run at a D-II playoff spot

Yes, he is.

His average is only a little better, but he is also walking at a much higher rate, striking out at a lower rate, and hitting with more pop.

So as a freshman, his OPS was .595, which is abysmal. Last year it was a better but still rough .678, and this year it is a passable .763. Still not great for a college hitter but miles better than as a freshman.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Yes, he is.

His average is only a little better, but he is also walking at a much higher rate, striking out at a lower rate, and hitting with more pop.

So as a freshman, his OPS was .595, which is abysmal. Last year it was a better but still rough .678, and this year it is a passable .763. Still not great for a college hitter but miles better than as a freshman.

Yeah I hate this cherry picking. If someone thinks batting avg and number of homers are the stats to look at, then they don't know baseball. If they know what stats matter bus still use avg and HRs to make a point, then they're spewing propaganda, not honesty.

[Coach34]

Yeah I hate this cherry picking. If someone thinks batting avg and number of homers are the stats to look at, then they don't know baseball. If they know what stats matter bus still use avg and HRs to make a point, then they're spewing propaganda, not honesty.

Of course average is not the end all of judgements- but extra base hits are a good stat when looking at offensive production. A punch and judy hitter like Foreskin has to hit .340 or so to get any real production. I mean, you can say that his on base percentage is higher than Clark's- but Clark has 19 extra base hits to his 8. Doubles him in total bases and RBI's. Real production

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Is he?

2021- Foreskin hit .231 186 AB's- 5 doubles and a HR...56 K's
2023- Foreskin is hitting .248 in 105 AB's...6 doubles and 2 HR's...21 K's

In 2 years he is slightly better now that he has a tad more pop and now grounds out weakly instead of striking out. He needs to go to Delta State and help them make a run at a D-II playoff spot

No reason for MSU to not have a stud SS on the roster.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Of course average is not the end all of judgements- but extra base hits are a good stat when looking at offensive production. A punch and judy hitter like Foreskin has to hit .340 or so to get any real production. I mean, you can say that his on base percentage is higher than Clark's- but Clark has 19 extra base hits to his 8. Doubles him in total bases and RBI's. Real production

So use OBP instead of average and Slug% instead of raw 2B and HR numbers. That's my point

[Coach34]

So use OBP instead of average and Slug% instead of raw 2B and HR numbers. That's my point

and you totally missed my point that OBP is an overblown stat. Foreskin's OBP is higher than Hines and Clark's but he isn't in the same stratosphere in production. He's almost 100 points higher than Alford but Alford has more production than him.

Bottom line he didnt produce as a freshman and isnt producing as a Junior. Mershon in less than 1/3 of the AB's has the same SB's, on pace to score more runs, hitting 70 points higher currently, has the ability to H&R or bunt for a hit- putting pressure on the D. We've improved our team making the change

[smootness]

and you totally missed my point that OBP is an overblown stat. Foreskin's OBP is higher than Hines and Clark's but he isn't in the same stratosphere in production. He's almost 100 points higher than Alford but Alford has more production than him.

Bottom line he didnt produce as a freshman and isnt producing as a Junior. Mershon in less than 1/3 of the AB's has the same SB's, on pace to score more runs, hitting 70 points higher currently, has the ability to H&R or bunt for a hit- putting pressure on the D. We've improved our team making the change

You are having a different discussion. No one has claimed Forsythe is anything great. The question is simply whether he has improved offensively since his freshman year, and he obviously has.

Also, Mershon is a little better than Forsythe offensively right now but not by a whole lot. Don?t talk about production if you?re going to talk up Mershon.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

and you totally missed my point that OBP is an overblown stat. Foreskin's OBP is higher than Hines and Clark's but he isn't in the same stratosphere in production. He's almost 100 points higher than Alford but Alford has more production than him.

Bottom line he didnt produce as a freshman and isnt producing as a Junior. Mershon in less than 1/3 of the AB's has the same SB's, on pace to score more runs, hitting 70 points higher currently, has the ability to H&R or bunt for a hit- putting pressure on the D. We've improved our team making the change

Obviously OBP isn't ALL that matters, SLG% matters too. Clark and Hines have a way higher SLG, thus they are overall much more valuable.

This isn't to defend Forsythe, I agree Mershonis better. This is about your cherry picking stats.

You picked 2 stats that make it look like Forsythe hasn't gotten better from '21 to '23. This is cherry picking because if you used the stats that DO matter (OBP and SLG) you'd see his SLG went from .274 to .362 and his OBP from .321 to .402. That's a 32% increase in SLG and a 25% increase in OBP. Its ridiculous to say he "hasn't gotten better"

[CaptainObvious]

Goodness! You guys are arguing about The mailroom guy when our Billion Dollar Organization needs a new CEO.

Stockholders need to to see major changes at the Top. Cann had morality problems. Moorhead had personality flaws. McCrae had philosophy issues. Howland had Leadership deficiencies. And Lemonis cannot build and maintain a program to acceptable standards with 3 of the greatest recruiting tools in the history of College Baseball.

[Coach34]

Obviously OBP isn't ALL that matters, SLG% matters too. Clark and Hines have a way higher SLG, thus they are overall much more valuable.

This isn't to defend Forsythe, I agree Mershonis better. This is about your cherry picking stats.

You picked 2 stats that make it look like Forsythe hasn't gotten better from '21 to '23. This is cherry picking because if you used the stats that DO matter (OBP and SLG) you'd see his SLG went from .274 to .362 and his OBP from .321 to .402. That's a 32% increase in SLG and a 25% increase in OBP. Its ridiculous to say he "hasn't gotten better"

and I stand by it- he really hasnt gotten better. aGAIN- he grounds out weakly instead of striking out. If that's "better" to you then fine. Hitting is about production- period. He was, is, and always will be a punch and judy hitter that doesnt produce

[Ezsoil]

[QUOTE=Coach34;1517622]You also cant ignore his abysmal fielding his freshman year. While he played well in the CWS- he was terrible all season in 2021. I'm pretty sure he has the lowest career fielding percentage in the SEC among guys that start[/QUOTE

I recall that the 2021 season started with James at shortstop and had a hard time as well ....the infield didn't stabilize until Forsythe was inserted into the lineup..

[DownwardDawg]

I know this is unpopular but I think the best thing for us would be to keep Lemonis under the condition that he gets a new pitching coach.

I know. This is unacceptable and embarrassing, but who are we gonna hire? A big name from a big program ain't coming here. We couldn't get one last time and that's when we were coming off an Omaha appearance... not missing Hoover for the 2nd straight year like we are this year. We could get a guy like Justin Haire, but are we sure he could deliver? Nope. We'd be taking a chance with anyone.

Lemonis has won and he's recruiting really well. Our freshmen are setting us up for a solid foundation for the future. Yes he's absolutely shit the bed the last 2 years and that's completely unacceptable. We can blame Fox but the blame mostly falls on Lemonis. But I'm just not sure that blowing it up and starting over is the best course of action.

Fire Foxhall, get a new pitching coach, and give him one more season. Hit the portal hard for arms and don't miss on a Skenes this year. Do that or gtfo.

I completely disagree that State can't hire one of the big names. COHEN couldn't hire a big name but everyone knows his personality and a lot of baseball coaches probably don't like that. LSU, Arkansas, etc...... don't seem to have any trouble getting who they want. We have the best baseball stadium and game day experience in the nation. We have the best fan support in the nation also. We can pay as much as anyone for a baseball coach.

[basedog]

I completely disagree that State can't hire one of the big names. COHEN couldn't hire a big name but everyone knows his personality and a lot of baseball coaches probably don't like that. LSU, Arkansas, etc...... don't seem to have any trouble getting who they want. We have the best baseball stadium and game day experience in the nation. We have the best fan support in the nation also. We can pay as much as anyone for a baseball coach.

I agree, I think like you said Cohen was our problem with hiring coaches.

[Leroy Jenkins]

I completely disagree that State can't hire one of the big names. COHEN couldn't hire a big name but everyone knows his personality and a lot of baseball coaches probably don't like that. LSU, Arkansas, etc...... don't seem to have any trouble getting who they want. We have the best baseball stadium and game day experience in the nation. We have the best fan support in the nation also. We can pay as much as anyone for a baseball coach.

Absolutely.

The concern I have with keeping Lemonis is attracting a top-tier pitching coach. Could it scare away some candidates knowing that they could be stepping into a situation where Lemonis may be gone next year?

[Ezsoil]

I completely disagree that State can't hire one of the big names. COHEN couldn't hire a big name but everyone knows his personality and a lot of baseball coaches probably don't like that. LSU, Arkansas, etc...... don't seem to have any trouble getting who they want. We have the best baseball stadium and game day experience in the nation. We have the best fan support in the nation also. We can pay as much as anyone for a baseball coach.

But we have one of worst NIL opportunities in the power 5 ......how many guys to.d us no the last time before Lemonis finally said yes ...and that was with four projected first round players on the returning team and a new stadium....it will be far harder to get any current power 5 coach to come here. Throw in the perception of the schools, it will be hard to get anyone who is married with kids.

[State82]

I agree, I think like you said Cohen was our problem with hiring coaches.

Probably not many top tier college coaches that want to have another baseball coach as their boss.

[Coach34]

But we have one of worst NIL opportunities in the power 5 ......how many guys to.d us no the last time before Lemonis finally said yes ...and that was with four projected first round players on the returning team and a new stadium....it will be far harder to get any current power 5 coach to come here. Throw in the perception of the schools, it will be hard to get anyone who is married with kids.

We are most assuredly not going to hire a big name. Schloss being in the mix was purely because he and TCU were souring with each other. All this crap about Corbin, Vitiello, and others is just funny. Our next hire will be someone from a school like Indiana again or some up and comer like the coach at Campbell. Could possibly be a top SEC assistant like GoTro. That is what we are looking at after Lemon- who I really dont think will be fired. I think he gets one more year

[The Federalist Engineer]

But we have one of worst NIL opportunities in the power 5 ......how many guys to.d us no the last time before Lemonis finally said yes ...and that was with four projected first round players on the returning team and a new stadium....it will be far harder to get any current power 5 coach to come here. Throw in the perception of the schools, it will be hard to get anyone who is married with kids.

Unpacking this:

(1) I though MSU gives some great packages on Tuition. So, a good student in baseball gets instate tuition and other direct benefits. This was even before NIL.
(2) MSU does not have the biggest NIL budget in the SEC, but that is not the same as 0 NIL budget. How much of Alabama's NIL budget go Bohanon? What percentage compared to Saban?
(3) Are you talking about elementary and grade schools in the Starkville area?

[The Federalist Engineer]

Seems that Lemonis being fired is low probably. Let's find the good thing in this:

(1) If he can keep the 2024 recruiting class, this should be a historically great group. 6 players could be major instant impact (2 great SS, OF, LHP, and a RHP).
(2) Lemonis did win 20 games in the first two SEC seasons.
(3) Did win a national championship in 2021. Really did happen.
(4) If he replaces Fox intelligently, this could be a game changer.
(5) An elite PC can be on a different contract cycle than the head coach. Plus he gets many great arms to start with.
(7) Since the AD is not a big mouth and low IQ poker player, nobody really knows that Lemonis is on a hot seat
(8) Next season, you probably get a huge jump in production from Bryce Chance, Dakota Jordan, Mershon, Hunter Hines, Ross Highfill, Hujsak, and Slate Alford. These could be 6 or 7 star hitters. With Hines being a Golden Spike candidate, with a rule against Shifting. With maybe Kellum Clark staying?
(9) Pitching with a better PC cannot be worse. Loftin, Jurrangelo, Gartman, Dohm, Holcombe, Simmons, Pico, and Auger are all good players. That's 8 pitchers. You can expect at least 1 or 2 from Gibbs, Siary, L. Forsythe, and Tapper making a leap. This is a good group with 4 high draft pick candidates. 2 or 3 with potential for 1st/2nd round selection pedigree.
(10) Eye of the tiger and chip on shoulder should be back in 2024.
(11) If MSU can get another RJ, Amani, or Colton from the Portal, then hitting should not go down at all. Hujsak is good already, just can't find a slot to play.
(12) A better PC can help MSU pickup some good Pitchers too. If you can get a JP France from another school, that's instant flex and strength.

[EdwardDrayton]

The rationalizing begins ................

[The Federalist Engineer]

The rationalizing begins ................

What else can you do, other than kick rocks.

I am assuming Edward Drayton is not the CEO of Bryan Foods. Then you can help us out with a buyout.

[smootness]

and I stand by it- he really hasnt gotten better. aGAIN- he grounds out weakly instead of striking out. If that's "better" to you then fine. Hitting is about production- period. He was, is, and always will be a punch and judy hitter that doesnt produce

If Forsythe is a punch and judy hitter, and hitting is all about 'production,' then what on earth is Mershon?

[Pancho]

they have totally different swings. did you see Mershon drive the 2 singles up the gut last night?

[The Federalist Engineer]

If Forsythe is a punch and judy hitter, and hitting is all about 'production,' then what on earth is Mershon?

Both are "Punch and Judy", one is on the much better end of the spectrum, a 300 and a 250 little guy. Plus Mershon is fielding better, a freshman, and can snag bases.

Mershon can be a lead off hitter and the other player is a classic 8 or 9 hole. That's after 3 years in the program.

[smootness]

Both are "Punch and Judy", one is on the much better end of the spectrum, a 300 and a 250 little guy. Plus Mershon is fielding better, a freshman, and can snag bases.

Mershon can be a lead off hitter and the other player is a classic 8 or 9 hole. That's after 3 years in the program.

Right now they are extremely similar offensive players. I am not even arguing one is better, I don?t care about that. The only real difference, though, is that Mershon gets a few more hits and Forsythe actually hits more XBH. Just funny to single Forsythe out as the punch and judy guy when he has more pop than Mershon.

[Coach34]

If Forsythe is a punch and judy hitter, and hitting is all about 'production,' then what on earth is Mershon?

Mershon is a punch and judy thats a catalyst...gets on base, steals, bunts for hits to put pressure on the D...had a perfect H&R against Auburn. You think we gonna H&R with Foreskin at the plate more than once a season?

[jcpeewee]

He?s gone and I think he knows it. The last two years has set the program back for how long remains to be seen. At this point the best we can hope for is to retain some of our top talent.