Pitching injuries under Foxhall

[GolfDawg]

The resume of injuries Foxhall has on his watch is pretty damning. Auger, Sims, Simmons last year, plus Beef after the season. Loftin and Gartman have disappeared. Already lost Cheatham, Pico. Now Dohm. We literally have two, yes TWO decent relief pitchers available for an entire weekend.

Obviously travel ball, overuse etc contributes but this trend looks baaaaad. Why would anyone want their kid to pitch for state? Really, really bad look for the program.


Need to cut ties, should have already done so. Makes me sick.

[WSOPdawg]

The resume of injuries Foxhall has on his watch is pretty damning. Auger, Sims, Simmons last year, plus Beef after the season. Loftin and Gartman have disappeared. Already lost Cheatham, Pico. Now Dohm. We literally have two, yes TWO decent relief pitchers available for an entire weekend.

Obviously travel ball, overuse etc contributes but this trend looks baaaaad. Why would anyone want their kid to pitch for state? Really, really bad look for the program.


Need to cut ties, should have already done so. Makes me sick.

Pretty sure you can add Christian MacLoud to this list.

[Todd4State]

We've literally had injuries to our top seven pitchers two years in a row and not all of them are Tommy John.

I don't know what we're doing with our pitching program because I'm not there but obviously something isn't right.

[msstate7]

Remember when we had TJ galore under wes johnson? Pitchers get hurt... water is wet. Fire foxhall bc he's ineffective, but I don't think he's to blame for pitcher injuries

[Activated Alpha]

I kept being told it isn?t Foxhall, but I refuse to believe that

[Todd4State]

Remember when we had TJ galore under wes johnson? Pitchers get hurt... water is wet. Fire foxhall bc he's ineffective, but I don't think he's to blame for pitcher injuries

More than likely he is to blame for some of them.

[Patrick Tibbons]

Foxhall deserves a lot of the criticism he gets, but multiple pitching injuries are not exclusive to Mississippi State. It?s very common across baseball due to overuse from the time these kids are 9 years old.

[Todd4State]

Foxhall deserves a lot of the criticism he gets, but multiple pitching injuries are not exclusive to Mississippi State. It?s very common across baseball due to overuse from the time these kids are 9 years old.

We're talking about the entire staff almost though for two years in a row. That's not normal.

[Mjoelner34]

Injuries aside, name someone other than Leibelt in his senior season who improved under Foxhall?

[State82]

Injuries aside, name someone other than Leibelt in his senior season who improved under Foxhall?

Give me a minute or two to think about this..............

Ok, I got nothing.

[EdwardDrayton]

The years long accumulation of overuse is probably the leading culprit. And many orthopedists will loudly proclaim that. Also along the way kids increasingly wanted to ring the triple digit gun bell. Now on the whole have coaches moved away from developing pitchers instead of throwers? Hmmmm.

[AlSwearengen]

I don’t know who, if anyone is to blame for injuries and we aren’t the only program that has issues with them. Our problem is that we seem to have too many at the back end of the staff that don’t seem to belong at this level. If they throw a strike, the ball gets murdered and after a few rounds of that, they start walking a small village because they are shell shocked.

Of course, when you don’t have enough effective pitchers, you over use the ones that can get hitters out and they are more prone to injury.

[The Federalist Engineer]

A player that was totally Fox'ed up by the end of his career at MSU and now TJed as a pro was Christian MacLeod

He was awesome in 2020 and started 2021 pretty good. Then he was throwing BP by 2021 Omaha. His 2020 curve was a marvel of depth and movement until he just could not.

What I don't understand is why kids want to throw at the edge of their natural ability in games at the sacrifice of effectiveness. They should save self destruction and control issues for their pro-workouts and combines. What am I missing? Funny that Auburn announcers discussed this very topic. Auburn have "electric" but sucky pitchers too, they said. Seems that kids buy-in to this?

There is a very special chapter in the Bob Tweksbury book about this topic. The cardinal GM let it be known that only strike throwing and effectiveness mattered to STL. Or you were waived.

[WSOPdawg]

A player that was totally Fox'ed up by the end of his career at MSU and now TJed as a pro was Christian MacLeod

He was awesome in 2020 and started 2021 pretty good. Then he was throwing BP by 2021 Omaha. His 2020 curve was a marvel of depth and movement until he just could not.

What I don't understand is why kids want to throw at the edge of their natural ability in games at the sacrifice of effectiveness. They should save self destruction and control issues for their pro-workouts and combines. What am I missing? Funny that Auburn announcers discussed this very topic. Auburn have "electric" but sucky pitchers too, they said. Seems that kids buy-in to this?

There is a very special chapter in the Bob Tweksbury book about this topic. The cardinal GM let it be known that only strike throwing and effectiveness mattered to STL. Or you were waived.

I've heard Tewksbury's name thrown out before and I would definitely like to reach out when the time comes, mainly b/c I believe he preaches "mental toughness" which is something we have definitely lacked over the years.

[Coach34]

Every team around the South deals with this. LSU has lost 3 or more pitchers this season and why their bullpen is having problems. SEC teams are having guys miss starts. It is baseball today


It's the wear and tear of travel ball on these guys finally happening in college.

[Commercecomet24]

Every team around the South deals with this. LSU has lost 3 or more pitchers this season and why their bullpen is having problems. SEC teams are having guys miss starts. It is baseball today


It's the wear and tear of travel ball on these guys finally happening in college.

This is the correct answer. I've talked with Dr Andrews about this at length and this absolutely it. Too much baseball for too long and it's cumulative on these young arms. You've got a lot of kids pitching all year long starting at 9 and trying for max velo at that age and eventually the rubber band is gonna snap. It's just an accepted part of baseball now and will be from here on. It's figured as risk/reward. Risk the arm injury for hopefully a big payoff one day and of course then you just have dads living through their kids that contributes to this as well.

[HoopsDawg]

I kept being told it isn?t Foxhall, but I refuse to believe that

Dohm should not have been on the bump today. 41 pitches on Friday requires 3 days rest. Pressure got to the coaches today.

[Really Clark?]

Dohm should not have been on the bump today. 41 pitches on Friday requires 3 days rest. Pressure got to the coaches today.

41 pitches at that age is only 1 day rest. 46-60 pitches is 2 days rest.

[ShotgunDawg]

This is the correct answer. I've talked with Dr Andrews about this at length and this absolutely it. Too much baseball for too long and it's cumulative on these young arms. You've got a lot of kids pitching all year long starting at 9 and trying for max velo at that age and eventually the rubber band is gonna snap. It's just an accepted part of baseball now and will be from here on. It's figured as risk/reward. Risk the arm injury for hopefully a big payoff one day and of course then you just have dads living through their kids that contributes to this as well.

It?s the chase for velocity, not the overuse.

I?ll disagree with Dr Andrews on this. Pitchers have to throw 90 mph before their bodies are ready too and that leads to things breaking.

People hear overuse and they think innings. It?s to much velocity before their bodies are mature enough to handle it

[SPMT]

This is the correct answer. I've talked with Dr Andrews about this at length and this absolutely it. Too much baseball for too long and it's cumulative on these young arms. You've got a lot of kids pitching all year long starting at 9 and trying for max velo at that age and eventually the rubber band is gonna snap. It's just an accepted part of baseball now and will be from here on. It's figured as risk/reward. Risk the arm injury for hopefully a big payoff one day and of course then you just have dads living through their kids that contributes to this as well.

I just read about some research done and the conclusion it doesn?t matter what country the pitcher is from, they all are around 16%. And the average age of surgery is 21, regardless of the league being college or pro.

[Commercecomet24]

It?s the chase for velocity, not the overuse.

I?ll disagree with Dr Andrews on this. Pitchers have to throw 90 mph before their bodies are ready too and that leads to things breaking.

People hear overuse and they think innings. It?s to much velocity before their bodies are mature enough to handle it

It's all tied together. Yes you are absolutely right that the chase for velocity is part of it, also a lot of these kids are putting way to much wear and tear on their arms at to young an age and yes they are trying to throw harder at an earlier age, it's all combined. To much velocity, to many pitches before they're developed, it all contributes. To many of these kids are throwing 12 months out of the year. The arm needs a 3-4 month break from throwing a baseball. So it's both but I'll defer to Dr. Andrews as he's seen more elbow injuries than all of us combined on here.

[Cooterpoot]

Our one size fits all approach to pitching doesn't help. But everyone knows Foxy sucks now, so no need to even talk about him. There's too much "arm training" going on. Guys throwing weighted balls all off season is stupid as hell. And it starts earlier and earlier every year it seems. I was a facility last month and there were 10 year old kids throwing weighted balls. That's stupid as 17!

[Commercecomet24]

Our one size fits all approach to pitching doesn't help. But everyone knows Foxy sucks now, so no need to even talk about him. There's too much "arm training" going on. Guys throwing weighted balls all off season is stupid as hell. And it starts earlier and earlier every year it seems. I was a facility last month and there were 10 year old kids throwing weighted balls. That's stupid as 17!

Yep! I've seen the same thing and it's ridiculous!

[KOdawg1]

Foxhall doesn't seem to be doing anything that prevents injuries but I don't think he's the cause of the injuries. It's an epidemic all across baseball right now

Fox needs to be fired for his lack of development and pitch calling. Not the injury stuff

[sandjunky]

Our one size fits all approach to pitching doesn't help. But everyone knows Foxy sucks now, so no need to even talk about him. There's too much "arm training" going on. Guys throwing weighted balls all off season is stupid as hell. And it starts earlier and earlier every year it seems. I was a facility last month and there were 10 year old kids throwing weighted balls. That's stupid as 17!

Last I checked, all balls are weighted - it?s not the balls, it?s how the balls are used - some are for warming up and some are velocity

The problem I?ve seen is: parents are ignorant and too trusting and pitching coaches that half ass teach the proper use of plyos

Mine have done Driveline since they were 9 years old and I watch every damn rep they take - they also do proper rest, recovery and lifting protocols- one is now 11 and other is 14 and neither has yet to have any arm issue/soreness or otherwise

My youngest is average velo and it is used ti drive home proper sequencing and arm path - not charing velo

My oldest is above average velo for his age, however there is more in the tank - he chases effortless velo - for example, he wants his velo to be within 1mph his entire outing when he pitches - he actually just started Driveline remote training

My fear now is the high school - he will be a 9th grader and the varsity coach wants his left handed bat, but at the costs of moving to catcher would be easiest path to start varsity as a freshman

I know he wants to pitch and stay on left side of infield but that?s an uphill climb at a 6a school - he?s afraid he?ll get stuck

Any advice from you veterans?

[ZedFedder]

Injuries happen. The issue is the on the field product.

[Captain Falcon]

Foxhall doesn't seem to be doing anything that prevents injuries but I don't think he's the cause of the injuries. It's an epidemic all across baseball right now

Fox needs to be fired for his lack of development and pitch calling. Not the injury stuff

This is the most reasonable take on this. Injuries are what they are but you can?t have a team ERA over 6 two years in a row.

[HoopsDawg]

Last I checked, all balls are weighted - it?s not the balls, it?s how the balls are used - some are for warming up and some are velocity

The problem I?ve seen is: parents are ignorant and too trusting and pitching coaches that half ass teach the proper use of plyos

Mine have done Driveline since they were 9 years old and I watch every damn rep they take - they also do proper rest, recovery and lifting protocols- one is now 11 and other is 14 and neither has yet to have any arm issue/soreness or otherwise

My youngest is average velo and it is used ti drive home proper sequencing and arm path - not charing velo

My oldest is above average velo for his age, however there is more in the tank - he chases effortless velo - for example, he wants his velo to be within 1mph his entire outing when he pitches - he actually just started Driveline remote training

My fear now is the high school - he will be a 9th grader and the varsity coach wants his left handed bat, but at the costs of moving to catcher would be easiest path to start varsity as a freshman

I know he wants to pitch and stay on left side of infield but that?s an uphill climb at a 6a school - he?s afraid he?ll get stuck

Any advice from you veterans?

Do what you have to do to get on the field and help the team. If that's catcher, so be it.

Develop 3B skills and pitching in the offseason so he will be ready as a sophomore-senior.

[HoopsDawg]

Injuries happen. The issue is the on the field product.

A lot of this goes back to recruiting. You have to have a deep staff.