Let's Discuss - How successsful could Leach have been at State?

[ScoobaDawg]

I originally was going to title this, was Will the worst thing to happen to Leach at MSU. But thought that was a little harsh. Will did the best he could..
A QB who doesn't have the arm strength to hit the long pass, which kept us from getting better Wide recievers.
Plus evidently major busts in recruiting of QB's or not allowing them to get their shot.

If Leach had a true pocket passer with a big arm and 1 WR that that was a true man beater.

How much better would the past 3 years have been?
I hate Leach never got a chance with another QB. Of course we will never know.

[memsu06]

We had lots of good receivers, but none that really stood out.

We needed our Crabtree, but we didn't have one. Closest we had was Polk and he should have stayed another year. I think we could have pulled some more wins if we had him last year.

That's why Leach folded up all the receiver's chairs last year in one of the games. He was trying to send a message.

The air raid was never meant to be long passes anyway. Leach knew you only had so many seconds to throw the ball and in those seconds he knew how far the receivers could run. That's pretty much your max throw down the field.

Otherwise you subject yourself to getting sacked the longer you wait to throw.

[Quaoarsking]

I'm confident that had Leach lived to coach 9 seasons here, he would have at least matched Mullen's success.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Leach system wasnt going to work against legit defenses. Thats why he wasnt successful against Washington when he was at WSU. No one played defense in the B12. I think this year may would have been his peak, but it would have been maybe 9 wins.

[drummerdawg]

I was excited about the future under Leach. I think he would have maintained the same level of success as Mullen. I really wanted to see what his system would look like with a true dual-threat QB. Unfortunately, we'll never know. I'm not sold on the new staff and system yet.

[Todd4State]

He was basically on track record wise as Jackie and Dan. I think it would have been about the same.

I think the offense would have improved as well. Locke is going to be a good QB and Parson is very talented as well. We were getting WR's in that we needed too.

What happened with Leach would have been like Dan passing away after 2011.

[Coach34]

Leach's offense was never going to be any more successful in the SEC because of the strength of SEC defenses. YAC wasnt going to improve because SEC defenses can tackle in space. This isnt the Big 12 or Pac 12. It was going to remain alot of rush 3/drop 8 vs us and checkdown offense year after year

[BrunswickDawg]

Leach as OC at Uk - 18-17
Leach as HC at MSU 19-17

I love the guy, and I’m glad he was our coach- but he also proved that the SEC is the great equalizer. Without the Jimmy’s and Joe’s, the Xs and Os won’t give you an advantage in the SEC.

[KB21]

Only a Mississippi State fan who thinks football is still played in the cave man days would have doubts that an offensive genius and legend coach in Mike Leach would get this offense where he has had all of his offenses in his career. Instead, you want to perpetuate this myth that you can?t throw the ball and be successful in the SEC.

[bobcat91]

Leach won more games every year he was here. He had begun to recruit mobile qbs and I think he would have adjusted the run game as well to get closer to a 2:1. He was never going to be a running offense, but the man invented the modern passing concepts used in the NFL today. I think he would have reached Mullen status here and who knows where it would have gone from there. We were setting ourselves up for a nice run. He wasn't 2 times NCAA Coach of the year for nothing

[dawgday166]

Leach won more games every year he was here. He had begun to recruit mobile qbs and I think he would have adjusted the run game as well to get closer to a 2:1. He was never going to be a running offense, but the man invented the modern passing concepts used in the NFL today. I think he would have reached Mullen status here and who knows where it would have gone from there. We were setting ourselves up for a nice run. He wasn't 2 times NCAA Coach of the year for nothing

Naw man ... Air Raid never gonna work here **** Even tho last year part of the reason we lost the LSU game was we ran at least once and I believe 2 times when we should've passed. On 4th and 1 with the box stacked we still ran when Will should've checked into a pass. Didn't make the 1st down. That was due to the Air Raid tho *** A mobile QB would've helped in that situation too.

Personally I don't see the point in arguing it over and over since we'll never know what exactly would've happened under Leach, how he would've adjusted and whatnot. It's all speculation on both sides of the argument.

[Homedawg]

People who think bc we signed Chris parson that we were goi g to run it more havent been paying attention. He wasn't changing anything.

[dawgday166]

People who think bc we signed Chris parson that we were goi g to run it more havent been paying attention. He wasn't changing anything.

Interesting take you have there. How many games has Parson played so far? Any under Leach? Will he? I guess we'll never know for sure.

[Todd4State]

People who think bc we signed Chris parson that we were goi g to run it more havent been paying attention. He wasn't changing anything.

Those people are looking at certain characteristics and not his passing. He's crazy accurate.

[bulldawg28]

Leach's offense was never going to be any more successful in the SEC because of the strength of SEC defenses. YAC wasnt going to improve because SEC defenses can tackle in space. This isnt the Big 12 or Pac 12. It was going to remain alot of rush 3/drop 8 vs us and checkdown offense year after year

This

[Commercecomet24]

Have always loved Coach Leach and I would've loved to see what he could've done here given more time. I'm sure he would've maintained our 6-9 wins a year with a shot at 10 every now and then. It really would've been great to see him finish his career here and then sail off into the sunset in the keys. Shame it didn't work out for him and us. He's gone now and I fully support the man he was grooming to be a head coach either here or somewhere else.

[dawgday166]

Have always loved Coach Leach and I would've loved to see what he could've done here given more time. I'm sure he would've maintained our 6-9 wins a year with a shot at 10 every now and then. It really would've been great to see him finish his career here and then sail off into the sunset in the keys. Shame it didn't work out for him and us. He's gone now and I fully support the man he was grooming to be a head coach either here or somewhere else.

Gotta spread more rep before I can give you anymore. Not sure I understand how the rep police SW on this site works. Rep police SW will probably get better now that Leach ain't the coach anymore. We'll see if Barbay can improve that any ****

[Todd4State]

Have always loved Coach Leach and I would've loved to see what he could've done here given more time. I'm sure he would've maintained our 6-9 wins a year with a shot at 10 every now and then. It really would've been great to see him finish his career here and then sail off into the sunset in the keys. Shame it didn't work out for him and us. He's gone now and I fully support the man he was grooming to be a head coach either here or somewhere else.

I agree. Which would have been our norm with good coaches. Really tragic because we were the most stable program in the West outside of Bama and I think we were going to have one of his big years in 2023.

Now? Who knows? Still might happen but it's a lot more uncertain.

He would have been here about 8-9 years and then moved on based on his career if I had to guess.

[State82]

Have always loved Coach Leach and I would've loved to see what he could've done here given more time. I'm sure he would've maintained our 6-9 wins a year with a shot at 10 every now and then. It really would've been great to see him finish his career here and then sail off into the sunset in the keys. Shame it didn't work out for him and us. He's gone now and I fully support the man he was grooming to be a head coach either here or somewhere else.

Well said.

[Coach34]

Have always loved Coach Leach and I would've loved to see what he could've done here given more time. I'm sure he would've maintained our 6-9 wins a year with a shot at 10 every now and then. It really would've been great to see him finish his career here and then sail off into the sunset in the keys. Shame it didn't work out for him and us. He's gone now and I fully support the man he was grooming to be a head coach either here or somewhere else.

Agree. He preached toughness defensively and our SC program was very good. We would have certainly remained a solid team

[BrunswickDawg]

Only a Mississippi State fan who thinks football is still played in the cave man days would have doubts that an offensive genius and legend coach in Mike Leach would get this offense where he has had all of his offenses in his career. Instead, you want to perpetuate this myth that you can?t throw the ball and be successful in the SEC.

No one has said anything like any of this. Passing has become an integral part of all offenses in CFB and changed the game in the SEC. Leach and Mumme were at the forefront of that in the late 90s along with Spurrier. LSU, Bama, UGA, TN, Auburn, and Ole Miss have all had success at times with effective passing games that have varied in styles and schemes. You can even argue that MSU '15 and '21-'22 had success with it.

Schematically Leach was far ahead of his time. Leach isn't the only offensive genius to bring new approaches into the league. Every time something new comes in, the defenses eventually adjust and the advantage of the new scheme is neutralized - even for teams that have talent advantages like Bama and LSU. It happened to the Wishbone, it happened to the Fun & Gun, it happened to the Spread, and it has happened to the Leach Air Raid. Unless Leach was able to attract 5* talent, his system and MSU's success with it would be limited. It is just fact. Teams have had 25 years to learn the Leach Air Raid and adjusted. If we had hired Leach to replace Jackie there is a chance that we could have been ahead of the curve and instead of Texas Tech making a miracle run, MSU could have had one and challenged the status quo.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Personally, 2 out of the 3 years, we had the opportunity to win 10 games. Didn't say we won 10, but we were in position to win 10. In 2021, we won 7 but lost 3 games by 3 points and in each had our opportunities. In 2022, same thing. We won 9 with opportunities at UK and LSU.

Hard to say about the future. I do believe we would have kept QBs and WRs. I also think over time he would have gotten better talent to MSU at those positions.

[Todd4State]

Personally, 2 out of the 3 years, we had the opportunity to win 10 games. Didn't say we won 10, but we were in position to win 10. In 2021, we won 7 but lost 3 games by 3 points and in each had our opportunities. In 2022, same thing. We won 9 with opportunities at UK and LSU.

Hard to say about the future. I do believe we would have kept QBs and WRs. I also think over time he would have gotten better talent to MSU at those positions.

Yeah. Our special teams was atrocious in 2021.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Yeah. Our special teams was atrocious in 2021.

Yep!

We really had a bright future and consistent as far as we could based of the turn around and what he had coming in. Sawyer R for example, looks to be the starter at Baylor. Success breeds success.


Like it's being said. We are not there anymore and I hope for the continued success at MSU. We have a vet team that should make a lot of noise! I see no excuses that can be made. Not on Defense or offense.

[TrapGame]

I liked Leah. I supported Leach. Leach is no longer with us. Therefore, I support Arnett and will continue to support Arnett until he loses my support from his coaching and/or recruiting decisions.

[Captain Falcon]

Leach was Leach. We would been in bowl games every year with the once in blue moon peak season of 9-3 or 10-2. But I suspect it would have continued to be a lot like what you saw from us in 2021 and 2022 (his first year was really weird and I never put a ton of stock into it).

[RockyDog]

Only a Mississippi State fan who thinks football is still played in the cave man days would have doubts that an offensive genius and legend coach in Mike Leach would get this offense where he has had all of his offenses in his career. Instead, you want to perpetuate this myth that you can?t throw the ball and be successful in the SEC.

Keep running that story, bro. You say it enough and MAYBE one day someone besides yourself will believe it.

NOBODY has said they dont want a passing game.

There were 9 other programs that had more pass yardage than us last season and they all had running games too. Two of them from our own conference. Imagine that!!

But enjoy your agenda.

[TorpedoIPA]

I don't think you're gonna win in the SEC with MSU's budget and relative low recruiting rank by thinking you can just line up and do what the other guys do. Leach had a system that was different and after a few years got it going wherever he has been.

I just think we need to be unconventional somewhat.

We'll see though. Too bad the Leach SEC experiment was cut short.

[Coach34]

I don't think you're gonna win in the SEC with MSU's budget and relative low recruiting rank by thinking you can just line up and do what the other guys do. Leach had a system that was different and after a few years got it going wherever he has been.

I just think we need to be unconventional somewhat.

We'll see though. Too bad the Leach SEC experiment was cut short.

We havent won the SEC since 1941. We arent ever going to win it again. Nothing Leach was doing was going to change that

[Jarius]

We havent won the SEC since 1941. We arent ever going to win it again. Nothing Leach was doing was going to change that

It’s going to take another Dak Prescott quarterback to have a chance. The stars will have to align for sure.

[BrunswickDawg]

It’s going to take another Dak Prescott quarterback to have a chance. The stars will have to align for sure.

Even Dak couldn't get us there. If he couldn't, and Jackie couldn't do it from '97-'99 then it's beyond the stars aligning in football. And even if we could get there I'm convinced the SEC via the refs would never let it happen. I'm glad I witnessed Kevin Prentiss' kick return in Atlanta - cause we will never be that close in football again.

[Jarius]

Even Dak couldn't get us there. If he couldn't, and Jackie couldn't do it from '97-'99 then it's beyond the stars aligning in football. And even if we could get there I'm convinced the SEC via the refs would never let it happen. I'm glad I witnessed Kevin Prentiss' kick return in Atlanta - cause we will never be that close in football again.

Oh it’s possible for sure. The rest of eternity is a long time for something to never happen. Maybe not in my lifetime.

[BrunswickDawg]

Oh it’s possible for sure. The rest of eternity is a long time for something to never happen. Maybe not in my lifetime.
It's possible that my long time crushes on Katarina Witt or Elisabeth Shue will payoff and they will pay me to be their boy toy. Eternity is a long time for something to never happen.

[Bothrops]

I'm confident that had Leach lived to coach 9 seasons here, he would have at least matched Mullen's success.

I agree with this.

[TorpedoIPA]

I didn't mean win the SEC championship. I meant win more than you lose and occasionally beat one of the big boys.

[Jarius]

It's possible that my long time crushes on Katarina Witt or Elisabeth Shue will payoff and they will pay me to be their boy toy. Eternity is a long time for something to never happen.

We were 1 game away from the SEC championship game 9 years ago. Us never winning an SEC title for the rest of eternity is very unlikely.

[Todd4State]

We were 1 game away from the SEC championship game 9 years ago. Us never winning an SEC title for the rest of eternity is very unlikely.

Only six teams have won the SEC outright since 1964. Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, Florida, and Tennessee. Now that may change some with Texas and Oklahoma and maybe Texas A&M joining the ranks potentially but as it is our absolute ceiling is probably 11-1 during the regular season. If we get to 9-3 consistently we're doing very well.

[Liverpooldawg]

We havent won the SEC since 1941. We arent ever going to win it again. Nothing Leach was doing was going to change that

We have been close three times in my lifetime, once under Bellard, once under Jackie, once under Mullen. The one under Bellard was actually the closest. It would take the stars aligning a few breaks along the way, but it could happen.

[Liverpooldawg]

Leach's offense was antiquated by the time he got here. It was also probably never going to do much against elite SEC defenses. The pure Air Raid is really a way to get people in space a short way down the field. It is heavily dependent on yards after the catch for break aways.........and a lot of it's bread and butter yardage as well. Elite SEC defenses just have too much speed for it to be that effective against them. I think what you saw last year was probably about the ceiling for Leach at MSU, unless he adapted what he did to the modern game. There were signs of that in SOME games. In others it was the same old same old.

[Jarius]

Only six teams have won the SEC outright since 1964. Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, Florida, and Tennessee. Now that may change some with Texas and Oklahoma and maybe Texas A&M joining the ranks potentially but as it is our absolute ceiling is probably 11-1 during the regular season. If we get to 9-3 consistently we're doing very well.

I understand the odds and the history. All I'm saying is that unless the world ends quicker than expected or football becomes outlawed, we will win an SEC title before the end of humanity. I'm not sure some people know how long forever is....I'm aware that I will quite possibly never see it happen, but someone most assuredly will. We will eventually hit on a big time quarterback and pair it up with a good defense with the correct schedule and some others will be down and it will happen. That may happen in 2423 and everyone may be flying around with aliens on Mars, but it will happen eventually. We have had a legit shot multiple times in my lifetime. I mean the SEC West Champ lost 2 conference games last year.

[BrunswickDawg]

We were 1 game away from the SEC championship game 9 years ago. Us never winning an SEC title for the rest of eternity is very unlikely.
Technically, we were two games. Beating Bama and then winning the SECC game.

We were only 9 minutes way from the SEC title in the actual championship game in 1998. That is the closest we've been since 1941.

[Liverpooldawg]

Technically, we were two games. Beating Bama and then winning the SECC game.

We were only 9 minutes way from the SEC title in the actual championship game in 1998. That is the closest we've been since 1941.

Look up Run Lindsay Run in 1980. If that play had not happened we would have been SEC co-champs with UGA and according to the rules at the time we would have got the Sugar Bowl berth. That is actually the closest we have come.

[BrunswickDawg]

Look up Run Lindsay Run in 1980. If that play had not happened we would have been SEC co-champs with UGA and according to the rules at the time we would have got the Sugar Bowl berth. That is actually the closest we have come.

Dude, remember where I'm from. I was listening to WSB 750 AM in Atlanta when Larry pleaded "Run Lindsay" broke his chair and declared "man is there going to be some property destroyed tonight!" And while that last second win broke MSU hearts the week after beating Bama - MSU was not in sole possession of its own destiny. That's why having the lead in the SEC title game with under 9 minutes to play is still the closest we've been. We were in total control of our own destiny at that point, and that's the only time we can say that since 1941.

[Coach34]

Dude, remember where I'm from. I was listening to WSB 750 AM in Atlanta when Larry pleaded "Run Lindsay" broke his chair and declared "man is there going to be some property destroyed tonight!" And while that last second win broke MSU hearts the week after beating Bama - MSU was not in sole possession of its own destiny. That's why having the lead in the SEC title game with under 9 minutes to play is still the closest we've been. We were in total control of our own destiny at that point, and that's the only time we can say that since 1941.

Which goes back to:

We havent won the SEC since there was a World War
The only two times we have been even close were 1980 and 1998.
In the modern era the only teams that have won it are the Big 6. That's only getting worse now with adding two more bluebloods. It's not within our realm to do it at this point.