It's Been Awhile Thread sponsored by Staind

[Coach34]

Hello Ladies and Germs- what's been going on? Thought I would address a few things that have been topics while I was on vacay

1. Skenes was not lost to LSU because of NIL. Skenes wanted to play for Johnson more than Fox but the tipping point was he looked at LSU's roster vs ours and decided LSU was a better team. NIL is important but so is winning to alot of these guys. Dont blame him a bit.

2. Really excited from the Spring Game. They didnt even show much and it was more creative than the last 3 seasons were offensively. It's going to be great to look forward to gameday on Saturday's again. Any new offense takes time to install and it will get nothing but better. Guys will be throwing and running routes in the summer. Then there is a whole month to get ready before the first game. We will be fine. App State people sing the praises of this guy and I look forward to him improving the offense and getting us back in the top half of the SEC like we were most years under Mullen.

3. Recruiting will be fine. We recruit in the 20's to 30's most years and I expect that to continue. Where I worry about NIL is in-state kids that are highly rated. We used to get those kids on the reg- but NIL could poo poo on that. That's the big concern. Need to sign top notch defensive players in state. But we are in the Portal Era- so 1/3 of our signing class should be transfers anyway to fill needs. That's part of the coaching process now.

4. Our pitching management in baseball is not very good. We are always trying to steal outs when we shouldn't and it always bites us in the ass. We won Sunday in spite of leaving Hunt in too long. Mistake after mistake keeps being made. Not to mention the pitchcalling- holy crap. Hunt threw 1st pitch breaking ball to 5 or 6 hitters in a row. My goodness man. That's the equivalent of throwing the ball 60 times in a football game and wondering why the LB's are dropping on the snap to their zones. On a good note- it's great to have Cade back and he has added a couple of mph on his velocity- hitting 95 at times now. Looks like we finally have our weekend rotation.

5. Lemonizik has been piss poor. Random line-ups moving people around. Playing Foreskin ahead of Mershon was fine early on- but the time is now to cut the cord. Mershon is a dirtbag that brings energy to the team. Switch hits to provide flexibility. Will get better in the field with experience. Starting Jordan Day 1 in the 3-hole was dumb. Sure he is very talented, but you got to let him adjust some to college baseball. We wasted time and lost games because he jammed him in the 3 early on- start the kid out 6th or so and let him get experience and confidence. But whatever.

6. Another Lemonizik move that cost us- putting the shift on vs McCants. Corky from Life Goes On wouldnt have been dumb enough to do that. Easy bunt hit. Easy steal of 2nd. Base hit and boom- insurance run that beats us in Game 1. Having talent matters but you got to do a little coaching. It's not about resting on the bucket. Fast forward to Sunday- he didnt shift on McCants in the 9th- why not? It's all about analytics right? At least his ass learned his lesson in that one situation but I can see that mistake being made against someone else down the road. I get shifting on guys like Hines who are determined to hit it thru the shift or over the shift- but not 9 hole hitting, fast running McCants.

7. Gonna take 12 SEC wins to get in the NCAA's probably. 13 and we are for sure in. Just keep winning series. That's what it takes now. Hopefully we will not screw up the pitching decisions too much to keep us from doing that.

8. Really good season by Jan and crew. Especially for a team that couldnt shoot. It's nice to be well-coached and play with effort. Brings me back to the Richard Williams days. And like Williams- he has to recruit or it's ugly basketball. I hope Tolu returns to develop an elbow jumper or something for him facing the basket. The NBA isnt happening unless he gets something 10-15 feet away from the basket. Find us a shooter Jan pleaseeeee!!!

9. Liked the idea of an NIL donation spot at games where people could just simply throw a $20 or something toward the effort. Not sure if it's allowed or what but the SEC and NCAA arent applying many rules to anything these days. We have to be forward-thinking in our approach and ideas like that one can help the cause.

10. Won the Egg...Swept in basketball...Won another baseball series (every one since 2015)...Our State!!! GTHOM

[parabrave]

Be careful the Air Raid Mafia has been out in full force since you been gone. BTW found out KB and the gang - https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-warriors-1979-29223268.html?imageid=F463FB99-CAD7-4478-8D64-4A7140B037DE&p=87718&pn=1&searchId=b86dc37f59f5e1b701014cdea54f7678&searchtype=0

[BeardoMSU]

Genuinely laughed at the "Corky from Life Goes On"....glad I'm not the only one that remembers that show.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxxmQZEbeFk&ab_channel=VMakNYC

[Leroy Jenkins]

Hello Ladies and Germs- what's been going on? Thought I would address a few things that have been topics while I was on vacay

1. Skenes was not lost to LSU because of NIL. Skenes wanted to play for Johnson more than Fox but the tipping point was he looked at LSU's roster vs ours and decided LSU was a better team. NIL is important but so is winning to alot of these guys. Dont blame him a bit.

2. Really excited from the Spring Game. They didnt even show much and it was more creative than the last 3 seasons were offensively. It's going to be great to look forward to gameday on Saturday's again. Any new offense takes time to install and it will get nothing but better. Guys will be throwing and running routes in the summer. Then there is a whole month to get ready before the first game. We will be fine. App State people sing the praises of this guy and I look forward to him improving the offense and getting us back in the top half of the SEC like we were most years under Mullen.

3. Recruiting will be fine. We recruit in the 20's to 30's most years and I expect that to continue. Where I worry about NIL is in-state kids that are highly rated. We used to get those kids on the reg- but NIL could poo poo on that. That's the big concern. Need to sign top notch defensive players in state. But we are in the Portal Era- so 1/3 of our signing class should be transfers anyway to fill needs. That's part of the coaching process now.

4. Our pitching management in baseball is not very good. We are always trying to steal outs when we shouldn't and it always bites us in the ass. We won Sunday in spite of leaving Hunt in too long. Mistake after mistake keeps being made. Not to mention the pitchcalling- holy crap. Hunt threw 1st pitch breaking ball to 5 or 6 hitters in a row. My goodness man. That's the equivalent of throwing the ball 60 times in a football game and wondering why the LB's are dropping on the snap to their zones. On a good note- it's great to have Cade back and he has added a couple of mph on his velocity- hitting 95 at times now. Looks like we finally have our weekend rotation.

5. Lemonizik has been piss poor. Random line-ups moving people around. Playing Foreskin ahead of Mershon was fine early on- but the time is now to cut the cord. Mershon is a dirtbag that brings energy to the team. Switch hits to provide flexibility. Will get better in the field with experience. Starting Jordan Day 1 in the 3-hole was dumb. Sure he is very talented, but you got to let him adjust some to college baseball. We wasted time and lost games because he jammed him in the 3 early on- start the kid out 6th or so and let him get experience and confidence. But whatever.

6. Another Lemonizik move that cost us- putting the shift on vs McCants. Corky from Life Goes On wouldnt have been dumb enough to do that. Easy bunt hit. Easy steal of 2nd. Base hit and boom- insurance run that beats us in Game 1. Having talent matters but you got to do a little coaching. It's not about resting on the bucket. Fast forward to Sunday- he didnt shift on McCants in the 9th- why not? It's all about analytics right? At least his ass learned his lesson in that one situation but I can see that mistake being made against someone else down the road. I get shifting on guys like Hines who are determined to hit it thru the shift or over the shift- but not 9 hole hitting, fast running McCants.

7. Gonna take 12 SEC wins to get in the NCAA's probably. 13 and we are for sure in. Just keep winning series. That's what it takes now. Hopefully we will not screw up the pitching decisions too much to keep us from doing that.

8. Really good season by Jan and crew. Especially for a team that couldnt shoot. It's nice to be well-coached and play with effort. Brings me back to the Richard Williams days. And like Williams- he has to recruit or it's ugly basketball. I hope Tolu returns to develop an elbow jumper or something for him facing the basket. The NBA isnt happening unless he gets something 10-15 feet away from the basket. Find us a shooter Jan pleaseeeee!!!

9. Liked the idea of an NIL donation spot at games where people could just simply throw a $20 or something toward the effort. Not sure if it's allowed or what but the SEC and NCAA arent applying many rules to anything these days. We have to be forward-thinking in our approach and ideas like that one can help the cause.

10. Won the Egg...Swept in basketball...Won another baseball series (every one since 2015)...Our State!!! GTHOM

I see no lies here.

[Commercecomet24]

Good to see you back 34! I see a lot of fun conversations between you and KB21 in our future! Grab your popcorn everyone!

ETA Great thread title! I'm a huge Aaron Lewis and Staind fan!

[parabrave]

Genuinely laughed at the "Corky from Life Goes On"....glad I'm not the only one that remembers that show.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxxmQZEbeFk&ab_channel=VMakNYC

More like Richie coming home from prison and hooking up with Janice.

[RockyDog]

Welcome back, brother! Your takes are spot on. Now if you don?t mind, please proceed with bitch slapping KB

[DownwardDawg]

Good to see you back 34! I see a lot of fun conversations between you and KB21 in our future! Grab your popcorn everyone!

ETA Great thread title! I'm a huge Aaron Lewis and Staind fan!

This!!!

[basedog]

+1 Coach 34! I'm especially with you on baseball. Watching Hunt struggle and not at least going to the mound was another wtf moment. And the McCants shift was mind boggling.

Like our new football coach.

Like our men and women's basketball coaches.

[RezDog7]

Agree on everything but also interested in your take on our new slot receiver, Whittemore.

[dawgday166]

2. Really excited from the Spring Game. They didnt even show much and it was more creative than the last 3 seasons were offensively. It's going to be great to look forward to gameday on Saturday's again. Any new offense takes time to install and it will get nothing but better. Guys will be throwing and running routes in the summer. Then there is a whole month to get ready before the first game. We will be fine. App State people sing the praises of this guy and I look forward to him improving the offense and getting us back in the top half of the SEC like we were most years under Mullen.


LOL .. getting those excuses ready. 10 wins minimum, 30+pts/game ... no excuses. None were allowed Leach when he was rebuilding a culture with a true freshman backfield, no spring practice, Covid, etc for the better part of 2 years. And Barbay is inheriting a helluva good situation. I'm hoping he is able to meet these reasonable expections with this depth chart.

I figure since I'm in Rome, I'll just do what the Romans do.

[Goldendawg]

Agree with all except were we really in the top half of the SEC most years with Dan? I think his overall SEC record was 33-39. I remember more mid-pack and that was in the West alone. Didn't look it up.

[Dawgface]

I used to despise c34 but after kb's trolling crap.....welcome back!

[Coach34]

LOL .. getting those excuses ready. 10 wins minimum, 30+pts/game ... no excuses. None were allowed Leach when he was rebuilding a culture with a true freshman backfield, no spring practice, Covid, etc for the better part of 2 years. And Barbay is inheriting a helluva good situation. I'm hoping he is able to meet these reasonable expections with this depth chart.

I figure since I'm in Rome, I'll just do what the Romans do.

Well please at least quote me correctly- I said repeatedly "This is Leach's chance to win 10 games". I never said 10 wins minimum. And that turned out to be a good assessment. We had a chance to beat LSU but fumbled a punt deep in our territory that changed the game. Plus, we lost to Kentucky who 95% of this board says we should beat every year. He did have a chance at 10.

[Coach34]

Agree with all except were we really in the top half of the SEC most years with Dan? I think his overall SEC record was 33-39. I remember more mid-pack and that was in the West alone. Didn't look it up.

Top half in offense.

[AlSwearengen]

I hope Lemonis turns it around and succeeds, but starting a true freshman in the 3 hole was a serious head scratcher. Hide him in the order and if he gets it done move him up and it gives him time to settle nerves among other things.

[TrapGame]

I used to despise c34 but after kb's trolling crap.....welcome back!

Yeah, bruh, give me 34 any day over that doofus. You can reason and have a conversation with 34 even if you don't agree with him on everything. And as far as this post goes he's spot on.

[TaleofTwoDogs]

Glory be! The flock has its shepherd back. (said in a nice way)

[dawgday166]

Well please at least quote me correctly- I said repeatedly "This is Leach's chance to win 10 games". I never said 10 wins minimum. And that turned out to be a good assessment. We had a chance to beat LSU but fumbled a punt deep in our territory that changed the game. Plus, we lost to Kentucky who 95% of this board says we should beat every year. He did have a chance at 10.

Well ... I didn't really quote you and don't remember it quite that way but ... a'ight if you say so. Don't wanna go look it up or create 6 pages of thread arguing about it. I know how you is ****

On paper (based on rankings out of HS and returning production too) I'm pretty sure this team exceeds the 2014 team. And we have a very good schedule set up better than ever IMO.

However, since we are changing offenses and coordinators a realistic number is 9 wins IMO. Bama auto loss due to the REC, SEC, SEC officials, etc. And then there is the jersey they're wearing with the "Oh shit, we playing Bama" factor.

Then 2 very possible losses IMO against LSU and @USCe.

Welcome back. I agree with you more times than not.

[Coach34]

Well ... I didn't really quote you and don't remember it quite that way but ... a'ight if you say so. Don't wanna go look it up or create 6 pages of thread arguing about it. I know how you is ****

On paper (based on rankings out of HS and returning production too) I'm pretty sure this team exceeds the 2014 team and maybe '18 too overall except for 3 key D players on the '18 team. And we have a very good schedule set up better than ever IMO.

However, since we are changing offenses and coordinators a realistic number is 9 wins IMO. Bama auto loss due to the REC, SEC, SEC officials, etc. And then there is the jersey they're wearing with the "Oh shit, we playing Bama" factor.

Then 2 very possible losses IMO against LSU and @USCe.

Welcome back. I agree with more times than not.

We got some guys back on D that could have left and that helps alot. Continuity in the weightroom and on D help alot. Offense will be at least as good as last year but likely better. The LSU, @SC, Bama stretch early in the season is going to be tough. Could easily be 3-3 after W. Michigan. The week off there is huge tho and we could see us run the table from there. Certainly think this should be an 8 win team at a minimum. 9 wouldnt surprise.

[Activated Alpha]

I don't think it was a coincidence that I was listening to this song on the way to pick up me boys. I mean it's gotta be a sign right?

[Coach34]

I don't think it was a coincidence that I was listening to this song on the way to pick up me boys. I mean it's gotta be a sign right?

no bullshit- I got in the car after school, plugged in my phone, hit pandora, and it was the first song played. All I could do is laugh. It's one of my top 10 favorite songs.

[huffy]

no bullshit- I got in the car after school, plugged in my phone, hit pandora, and it was the first song played. All I could do is laugh. It's one of my top 10 favorite songs.

Also quite the coincidence that Staind released their first new single in over 12 years today. Welcome back, C34!


https://youtu.be/kKqdFvW--eM

[EdwardDrayton]

We've missed you around here Coach. Welcome back. Put your feet up and stay awhile.

[Coach34]

That is awesome. My BDay is Memorial Day weekend and my ex-girlfriend started a tradition of going to big concerts for my BDay. We did Rocklahoma 3 times and some others. So this year I'm taking my sons to see the Chili Peppers for my BDay. They may be more excited than I am and thats hard to top. It will be Little Wool's 1st concert.

[huffy]

That is awesome. My BDay is Memorial Day weekend and my ex-girlfriend started a tradition of going to big concerts for my BDay. We did Rocklahoma 3 times and some others. So this year I'm taking my sons to see the Chili Peppers for my BDay. They may be more excited than I am and thats hard to top. It will be Little Wool's 1st concert.

That will be a good time! I just rocked my 11 month old to sleep. I can't wait until we start sharing those memories.

[Coach34]

That will be a good time! I just rocked my 11 month old to sleep. I can't wait until we start sharing those memories.

No doubt and you will build those memories. Little 34's first concert was Five Finger Death Punch. He still talks about how much he loved it and makes his mother play them in the car...hahahahaha. My boys are so spoiled- Little 34's first 2 concerts are 5FDP and the Chili Peppers and Little Wool starts off with a legendary group. I got Zoo Blues for my 1st concert...hahaha

[KB21]

You guys even have bad taste in music.

[parabrave]

No doubt and you will build those memories. Little 34's first concert was Five Finger Death Punch. He still talks about how much he loved it and makes his mother play them in the car...hahahahaha. My boys are so spoiled- Little 34's first 2 concerts are 5FDP and the Chili Peppers and Little Wool starts off with a legendary group. I got Zoo Blues for my 1st concert...hahaha

Guns and Roses will be here om the Coast later this year.

[Coach34]

You guys even have bad taste in music.

wow- you really are the worst poster on the board. Maybe any State message board. And Sixpack has/had some really bad mouthbreathing posters. You have terrible taste in music and dont know shit about offensive football. Hell, you probably dont even recommend knotless anchors for labrum surgeries and still want metal anchors for rotator cuffs.

[huffy]

You guys even have bad taste in music.

KB? I?m sorry but this persona of yours has ran its course. I truly hope it?s only a front. Otherwise, I feel sorry for anyone that has to suffer your mere presence in real life. It?s one thing to voice an opinion and move on. It?s another when you go looking for a bear to poke. Every. Single. Day. Lucky for you, this is just a message board. It will be a tough lesson if you poke the wrong bear in person.

[PMDawg]

wow- you really are the worst poster on the board. Maybe any State message board. And Sixpack has/had some really bad mouthbreathing posters. You have terrible taste in music and dont know shit about offensive football. Hell, you probably dont even recommend knotless anchors for labrum surgeries and still want metal anchors for rotator cuffs.

His stupidity really makes me paranoid about the entire medical field.

[KB21]

His stupidity really makes me paranoid about the entire medical field.

There?s no opinion more stupid than the the air raid can?t be successful in the big bad mighty SEC thought process. Or this idea some of you have that we can?t have a pass oriented offense at Mississippi State and be successful.

[msstate7]

There?s no opinion more stupid than the the air raid can?t be successful in the big bad mighty SEC thought process. Or this idea some of you have that we can?t have a pass oriented offense at Mississippi State and be successful.

I would say it's equally stupid to say a run first offense can't be successful. In fact, we actually have proof of that in mullen.

[KB21]

I would say it's equally stupid to say a run first offense can't be successful. In fact, we actually have proof of that in mullen.

There are 50 plus years of evidence that show a run first offense does not close the gap between Mississippi State and the blue bloods in the conference.

That along with all of the empirical data that shows that throwing the ball has a higher correlation with winning than running the ball does makes it even more stupid to go with an offense where ?everything starts with the run game?.

What we have here is a fan base that can?t get out of the comfort zone of having a run often offense because ?By God, that?s how my grandpappy told me the game is supposed to be played!? ?My grandpappy says that only three things can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad.?

[Tater]

It's time to vote KB off the island. Is there a poster that can stand his schtick?

I'm going the ignore route if scoob won't banish him. Outta sight outta mind. I suggest others do the same and the problem will solve itself.

[StarkVegasSteve]

KB? I?m sorry but this persona of yours has ran its course. I truly hope it?s only a front. Otherwise, I feel sorry for anyone that has to suffer your mere presence in real life. It?s one thing to voice an opinion and move on. It?s another when you go looking for a bear to poke. Every. Single. Day. Lucky for you, this is just a message board. It will be a tough lesson if you poke the wrong bear in person.

I personally hope he does. I would say I hope he spouts off to the wrong good ole boy in The Junction who's about 13 beers deep, but we know he doesn't actually support the university. He just screams and bitches about it from afar like all the others who tell us how everything we do is wrong, but provide no solutions. Holy hell, is KB actually AOC???

[Tripp McNeely]

It's time to vote KB off the island. Is there a poster that can stand his schtick?

I'm going the ignore route if scoob won't banish him. Outta sight outta mind. I suggest others do the same and the problem will solve itself.

Is there an "ignore" feature on this site?? That would be magical if so!

[RockyDog]

There?s no opinion more stupid than the the air raid can?t be successful in the big bad mighty SEC thought process. Or this idea some of you have that we can?t have a pass oriented offense at Mississippi State and be successful.

Yet there are 3 years worth of data SHOWING that the err raid WASNT very successful in the big, bad SEC

[TrapGame]

Yet there are 3 years worth of data SHOWING that the err raid WASNT very successful in the big, bad SEC

When Will is hitting guys downfield in man coverage b/c defenses have to bring up guys to stop our running game KB will become strangely silent.

[StarkVegasSteve]

When Will is hitting guys downfield in man coverage b/c defenses have to bring up guys to stop our running game KB will become strangely silent.

No he won't. We'll have to hear about how WKU lit up North South Eastwestern Tech 78-12.

[Coach34]

There are 50 plus years of evidence that show a run first offense does not close the gap between Mississippi State and the blue bloods in the conference.

That along with all of the empirical data that shows that throwing the ball has a higher correlation with winning than running the ball does makes it even more stupid to go with an offense where ?everything starts with the run game?.

What we have here is a fan base that can?t get out of the comfort zone of having a run often offense because ?By God, that?s how my grandpappy told me the game is supposed to be played!? ?My grandpappy says that only three things can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad.?

The highest scoring offenses in college football are offenses that run the ball and are pretty balanced. The best offense of the modern era- 2019 LSU- had 513 rushes to go with its 567 passes. Good offenses are usually balanced thats not even in dispute. Stop being a moron

[Coach34]

Yet there are 3 years worth of data SHOWING that the err raid WASNT very successful in the big, bad SEC

2020- 13th in scoring
2021- 9th in scoring
2022- 8th in scoring

The Air Raid never finished in the top half of the SEC in scoring....how will we evahhhhhh replace it????

[KOdawg1]

2020- 13th in scoring
2021- 9th in scoring
2022- 8th in scoring

The Air Raid never finished in the top half of the SEC in scoring....how will we evahhhhhh replace it????
We have too many fans that fell in love with the idea of the air raid rather than the actual production the air raid brought.

[msstate7]

There are 50 plus years of evidence that show a run first offense does not close the gap between Mississippi State and the blue bloods in the conference.

That along with all of the empirical data that shows that throwing the ball has a higher correlation with winning than running the ball does makes it even more stupid to go with an offense where ?everything starts with the run game?.

What we have here is a fan base that can?t get out of the comfort zone of having a run often offense because ?By God, that?s how my grandpappy told me the game is supposed to be played!? ?My grandpappy says that only three things can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad.?

Our one and only NY6 bowl was on the back of a run-heavy offense. We made Atlanta on the back of a run-heavy offense also

[KB21]

Our one and only NY6 bowl was on the back of a run-heavy offense. We made Atlanta on the back of a run-heavy offense also

?Because that?s how my grandpappy said football is supposed to be played?

[DownwardDawg]

It's time to vote KB off the island. Is there a poster that can stand his schtick?

I'm going the ignore route if scoob won't banish him. Outta sight outta mind. I suggest others do the same and the problem will solve itself.

It's way passed time. Use the ignore function. It helps but everyone keeps replying to him so you can still read the misery.

Scooba, please let me be an admin for 10 minutes. I'll be nice..... :)

[DownwardDawg]

We have too many fans that fell in love with the idea of the air raid rather than the actual production the air raid brought.

This 100%. Great concept. Just not reality.

[Coach34]

?Because that?s how my grandpappy said football is supposed to be played?

Have some more data:

Washington is the only P5 team to finish in the top 30 nationally in scoring (I stopped there) that threw over 100 more passes than had rushes in 2022 or in 2021.

[SPMT]

Our one and only NY6 bowl was on the back of a run-heavy offense. We made Atlanta on the back of a run-heavy offense also

I believe now and believed then we would?ve been a lot better doing something more like Mumme and Leach in those years. And even better though if we could do something g like Rich Rod with a Conner type qb.

[KB21]

The only top 10 scoring team that was in the top 10 of rushing attempts was Michigan. Only 2 were in the top 10 of rushing yards. Zero were in the top 10 of first half rushing attempts or rushing yards.

That LSU team had the 2nd most pass attempts in college football in 2019.

[Coach34]

How about some more data????

Of the P5 teams that threw it significantly more than ran the ball in 2022:

Washington- 2nd in the Pac-12 and 7th nationally
Mississippi State- 8th in the SEC and 43rd nationally in scoring
Washington State- 8th in the Pac-12 and 79th nationally
California- 10th in the Pac-12 and 96th nationally
Indiana- 10th in the Big 10 and 99th nationally
Stanford- 11th in the Pac-12 and 109th nationally
Iowa State- last in the Big 12 and 113th nationally
Boston College- 12th in the ACC and 122nd nationally

Pass heavy and P5 football doesnt seem to correlate very well

[KB21]

Washington 2nd in passing yards. USC 3rd. Georgia 4th.

Yeah. Throwing the ball doesn?t correlate to winning

[KB21]

Two biggest keys to winning in football is throwing the ball well and defending the pass.

[parabrave]

Two biggest keys to winning in football is throwing the ball well and defending the pass.

So throwing to a TE is now acceptable to you/

[KB21]

So throwing to a TE is now acceptable to you/

The issue is that most TEs cannot make plays like a WR can.

[Coach34]

Washington 2nd in passing yards. USC 3rd. Georgia 4th.

Yeah. Throwing the ball doesn?t correlate to winning

balanced offenses at USC and Georgia

[KB21]

balanced offenses at USC and Georgia

USC is Air Raid. Todd Monken didn?t run it at Georgia but has an Air Raid background. He was hired to add juice to their passing game. If Mike Bobo calls plays the way he usually does, their offense will have a significant decline.

[TrapGame]

No he won't. We'll have to hear about how WKU lit up North South Eastwestern Tech 78-12.

And they only ran the ball 6 times the whole game!***

[Coach34]

USC is Air Raid. Todd Monken didn?t run it at Georgia but has an Air Raid background. He was hired to add juice to their passing game. If Mike Bobo calls plays the way he usually does, their offense will have a significant decline.

I dont care what you call it- USC has a balanced offense that runs the ball to the tune of 90 yards more per game (over twice as many yards) as the Leach AR
Georgia ran the ball more than they threw it in their balanced offense

You cant change facts

[Tater]

Is there an "ignore" feature on this site?? That would be magical if so!

Click user name

View Profile

Add to ignore list.

Yes.

[KB21]

I dont care what you call it- USC has a balanced offense that runs the ball to the tune of 90 yards more per game (over twice as many yards) as the Leach AR
Georgia ran the ball more than they threw it in their balanced offense

You cant change facts

Georgia had 309 pass attempts and 240 rush attempts in the first half of games.

Their run attempts were mostly done late when milking the clock after building a big lead through the passing game.

[msstate7]

Georgia had 309 pass attempts and 240 rush attempts in the first half of games.

Their run attempts were mostly done late when milking the clock after building a big lead through the passing game.

Georgia is nothing like what you're advocating for. Two of their top 4 receivers were TEs

[PMDawg]

There?s no opinion more stupid than the the air raid can?t be successful in the big bad mighty SEC thought process. Or this idea some of you have that we can?t have a pass oriented offense at Mississippi State and be successful.

How about the stupidity of a straw man argument? Literally everyone is okay with a more balanced offense that is even skewed more heavily toward pass than run.

[MrCoachKlein]

The only top 10 scoring team that was in the top 10 of rushing attempts was Michigan. Only 2 were in the top 10 of rushing yards. Zero were in the top 10 of first half rushing attempts or rushing yards.

That LSU team had the 2nd most pass attempts in college football in 2019.

And over 500 rushing attempts. You're the only one here asking for a 1 dimensional attack. You're PRETENDING everyone just wants to run and never throw, so you can have a soap box to stand on.

Honestly, I think that LSU team had about the perfect mix. Something like 55/45 pass to run. You're acting like they were 85/15.

Edit: correcting myself. They threw it 52.7% of the time. Too run heavy they shouldn't have won a game*

[MrCoachKlein]

Any chance KB is BertStare's drunken shit posting account?*

[StarkVegasSteve]

Any chance KB is BertStare's drunken shit posting account?*

I thought it was Crissy Froyd until I noticed we've let that no life be a member since 2013.

[KB21]

Georgia is nothing like what you're advocating for. Two of their top 4 receivers were TEs

You do realize that Bowers is more of a receiver/athlete than a traditional TE, right? You also realize that Bowers and Washington are rare breeds that not everyone has?

Mike always said he would welcome a TE if it didn?t limit his passing game.

[KB21]

https://247sports.com/college/washington-state/Article/Mike-Leach-Logan-Tago-Washington-State-Cougars-football-Air-Raid-tight-end-defensive-end-137385951/

?If you have both of those things, If you have a true tight end and you have a (quick) guy like that, It?s almost like a fastball-changeup deal,? Leach said. ?Because one guy is too quick to put a true linebacker on and the other guy is too big and strong to put a strong safety on, so it creates a lot of mismatches, it?s just hard to find.?

[MrCoachKlein]

You do realize that Bowers is more of a receiver/athlete than a traditional TE, right? You also realize that Bowers and Washington are rare breeds that not everyone has?

Mike always said he would welcome a TE if it didn?t limit his passing game.

Almost like Harmon? Obviously not on the same level, but he's way more of a receiver/athlete than inline TE. I know that doesn't fit your narrative though.

[KB21]

The problem with what some of you want in a TE is the fact that you just want a third tackle to ?help run that damn ball!?

[KB21]

Almost like Harmon? Obviously not on the same level, but he's way more of a receiver/athlete than inline TE. I know that doesn't fit your narrative though.

Harmon is nothing like Bowers.

[MrCoachKlein]

Harmon is nothing like Bowers.

Inline TE/Tackle. Got it. Definitely not in the receiving mold.

[Pancho]

KB21 is a weak cuck. no doubt trash human

[RockyDog]

The problem with what some of you want in a TE is the fact that you just want a third tackle to ?help run that damn ball!?

YOU are the one saying everybody wants a ground and pound running game, dipshit.

Most people just want a real non-gimmick offense that moves the ball down the field without having to throw 15 5-yard passes every drive.

[KOdawg1]

Quit feeding this troll

[KB21]

YOU are the one saying everybody wants a ground and pound running game, dipshit.

Most people just want a real non-gimmick offense that moves the ball down the field without having to throw 15 5-yard passes every drive.

I?m curious. What is the gimmick to the Air Raid? Is it based upon gimmicks like jet sweeps, reverses, and trick plays?

The Air Raid has a sound philosophy behind it. Make things simple, give a lot of repetition to a few plays, and create and attack space by spreading the field vertically and horizontally. That?s a gimmick? If it is, it has stood the test of time because this gimmick offense has changed the way offensive football is played at every level.

[MrCoachKlein]

I?m curious. What is the gimmick to the Air Raid? Is it based upon gimmicks like jet sweeps, reverses, and trick plays?

The Air Raid has a sound philosophy behind it. Make things simple, give a lot of repetition to a few plays, and create and attack space by spreading the field vertically and horizontally. That?s a gimmick? If it is, it has stood the test of time because this gimmick offense has changed the way offensive football is played at every level.

Stood the test of time when coupled with a run game. FTFY.

No team can consistently produce 15 play scoring drives. It worked in a few leagues that don't play defense. It would probably have worked in SEC with Bama's talent or 2011 Drew Brees. There's a reason every top offense that runs it well against good defenses is at worst a 55 pass to 45 run split. Hell USC with Lincoln Riley passed it 52.66% of the time last yr.

[Goldendawg]

I thought it was Crissy Froyd until I noticed we've let that no life be a member since 2013.

He is Rip Van Winkle and he just woke up when the Air Raid came to State. Thus, 2000 or so of his 2,087 posts pertaining to the Air raid. Hail State!

[Goldendawg]

I?m curious. What is the gimmick to the Air Raid? Is it based upon gimmicks like jet sweeps, reverses, and trick plays?

The Air Raid has a sound philosophy behind it. Make things simple, give a lot of repetition to a few plays, and create and attack space by spreading the field vertically and horizontally. That?s a gimmick? If it is, it has stood the test of time because this gimmick offense has changed the way offensive football is played at every level.

I think I saw more jet sweeps in Barbay's offense in Saturday's scrimmage, than I saw in the last three years of our Air Raid. I could be wrong. First in person State game in 1963 and have seen at lot of offenses, mostly bad. I knew nothing of the Air Raid until we hired Coach Leach, who I supported, but his offense bored me to tears. It was short passes (mainly), ball control offense that reminded me of Coach Croom's( could not stand him), West Coast Offense. Both, catch a relatively short pass and try to get YAC. Fire away.

[NeuteredDawg]

Historical record is under .500. Generational talent with Dak was a deviation above baseline. We have run wishbone to air raid. Talent wins.

[bulldawg28]

Welcome back C34

[KB21]

Historical record is under .500. Generational talent with Dak was a deviation above baseline. We have run wishbone to air raid. Talent wins.

Talent wins, but scheme can make average talent play above average. The Air Raid, in particular Mike?s version, has historically don?t that. His teams have been competitive against programs with more talent because of his scheme and coaching.

[msstate7]

Talent wins, but scheme can make average talent play above average. The Air Raid, in particular Mike?s version, has historically don?t that. His teams have been competitive against programs with more talent because of his scheme and coaching.

The program mullen rarely competed against here was bama. Leach was 0-3 vs bama with a combined score of 120-15

[Coach34]

The program mullen rarely competed against here was bama. Leach was 0-3 vs bama with a combined score of 120-15

0-5 vs Bama and Georgia.
1-2 vs Kentucky
1-2 vs LSU
1-2 vs Mississippi

Air Raid was 3-11 vs SEC teams with good records and our rival

[KB21]

Dan Mullen had 9 wins vs top 25 teams in 9 years. Mike had 8 in 3 years. Jackie Sherrill had 8 in 13 years.

[Goldendawg]

0-5 vs Bama and Georgia.
1-2 vs Kentucky
1-2 vs LSU
1-2 vs Mississippi

Air Raid was 3-11 vs SEC teams with good records and our rival

Facts. Only stat that truly matters is wins! Hail Zac and Barbay! Give the new O a chance! Hail State!

[Coach34]

Dan Mullen had 9 wins vs top 25 teams in 9 years. Mike had 8 in 3 years. Jackie Sherrill had 8 in 13 years.

How did those Top 25 teams finish? Most of them finished with 6-7 wins. Like 2020 LSU finished 5-5. Texas A&M 2021 wasnt even ranked in one poll and finished 25th in another. 2022 Mississippi didnt finish ranked. 2021 Auburn didnt finish ranked.

aGAIN- the AR didnt win shit and was bottom half SEC in offense all 3 years. 2022 was a good year with a veteran team- as are all State teams regardless of coach in the last 20 years

[Coach34]

Leach's best wins?

2021 NC State, Kentucky, and A&M 2021 with a back-up QB

[Really Clark?]

Dan Mullen had 9 wins vs top 25 teams in 9 years. Mike had 8 in 3 years. Jackie Sherrill had 8 in 13 years.

3 ranked wins in 3 years. It's where a team finishes.

[Coach34]

Bad Air Raid losses?

2020 UPig, 2021 Memphis, 2021 LSU at home that finished 6-7, 2021 Bowl game vs 6-6 TT

[Todd4State]

Historical record is under .500. Generational talent with Dak was a deviation above baseline. We have run wishbone to air raid. Talent wins.

Best post in the thread.

[Homedawg]

3 ranked wins in 3 years. It's where a team finishes.

Which honesty is stupid. Here's the reasoning. If you beat a team that ends up 7-5 they won't be ranked at end of the year . If you had lost they would be. Or could be. It should be when you play em. That's what they were. That's me anyway.

[Todd4State]

Which honesty is stupid. Here's the reasoning. If you beat a team that ends up 7-5 they won't be ranked at end of the year . If you had lost they would be. Or could be. It should be when you play em. That's what they were. That's me anyway.

I agree with you.

[dawgday166]

Historical record is under .500. Generational talent with Dak was a deviation above baseline. We have run wishbone to air raid. Talent wins.


Best post in the thread.

Ain't it tho!

I almost willing to bet my house we'll see threads between KB and C34 on this topic infinitum this year.

It'll be great!!! *******

No worries tho, I'm currently not on as much as I used to be and with all those threads, that'll probably get decreased even further.


Which honesty is stupid. Here's the reasoning. If you beat a team that ends up 7-5 they won't be ranked at end of the year . If you had lost they would be. Or could be. It should be when you play em. That's what they were. That's me anyway.

Yep

[Todd4State]

Ain't it tho! I almost willing to bet my house we'll see threads between KB and C34 on this topic infinitum this year.

It'll be great!!! *******

No worries tho, I'm currently not on as much as I used to be and with all those threads, that'll probably get decreased even further.



Yep

Yes. MSU fans tend to waaaayyy overvalue scheme over talent.

I'm guessing whatever we do now will be about the same results wise.

[dawgday166]

Yes. MSU fans tend to waaaayyy overvalue scheme over talent.

I'm guessing whatever we do now will be about the same results wise.

Historically speaking my perception is what matters more than anything else for MSU success is super stud Dlineman. Then it only takes a slightly better than adequate offense, which is what we generally have in good years.

ETA: So the REALLY BIG test this year is can this staff pull at least 2 of the top 4 in-state guys in next year's class.

[KB21]

3 ranked wins in 3 years. It's where a team finishes.

Only to the Mike Leach haters.

[msstate7]

Delete

[Really Clark?]

Only to the Mike Leach haters.

That's not true. I look at that for all coaches in college football and for years before we hired Leach. On this board I stated the same during the Mullen years. I will say I know of a Leach supporter who only counted rankings at the end of the season on Dan because they had issues with Mullen but now they want to count it at the time the game was played. That's hypocritical but I've been consistent on this topic for years.

[Todd4State]

Historically speaking my perception is what matters more than anything else for MSU success is super stud Dlineman. Then it only takes a slightly better than adequate offense, which is what we generally have in good years.

ETA: So the REALLY BIG test this year is can this staff pull at least 2 of the top 4 in-state guys in next year's class.

I think you are correct. We've had some absolutely elite defenses at times- 1999 and 2018. 1998 and 1980 were pretty good among others. 2014 would have been better without the 1A/1B crap that Dan did.

Really I think it comes down to what we value more in recruiting which historically if it comes down to it our boosters will pay for the elite defensive player while Ole Miss will go all in on an elite offensive player more often than not.

Since we're talking about balance maybe we need to balance our recruiting out a little better.

[RockyDog]

The Err Raid produced 2 exciting games, game 1 against LSU when Pelini made KJ look like a Heisman QB and the Auburn game when Harsin decided to stop coaching. Everything else was a snooze fest due to Leach trying to pound that square peg into a round hole.

I would have loved for Leach to stick around and see if his offense could have evolved but there was no guarantee that giving him 4 more years was gonna change anything just because his offense historically trended up at TT and Washington St. Even with the silly numbers that the offense was putting up, we still weren?t getting the payoff at the receiver position. We were still being out recruited by Mississippi, Arkansas and others even though we were the ?passing? team.

Unfortunately, Leach is gone and trying to hold on to his legacy by keeping his underlings on staff was never going to work long term.

[KB21]

Watching Leach?s offense was so much better than watching Dan?s offense minus Dak. I knew that Leach wasn?t going to call a QB draw on 3rd and ten or try to milk the clock with three straight up the gut runs when up by three with 10 minutes left to play.

[Pancho]

Watching Leach?s offense was so much better than watching Dan?s offense minus Dak. I knew that Leach wasn?t going to call a QB draw on 3rd and ten or try to milk the clock with three straight up the gut runs when up by three with 10 minutes left to play.

yea, and some guys prefer fat girls too......

[parabrave]

We had a better chance of Relf. Dak, and Fitz of making that 3rd down on a QB draw than of Will on his 5 yard dump off/

[msstate7]

Watching Leach?s offense was so much better than watching Dan?s offense minus Dak. I knew that Leach wasn?t going to call a QB draw on 3rd and ten or try to milk the clock with three straight up the gut runs when up by three with 10 minutes left to play.

Why would you throw out dak's years? Dan recruited and developed him.

As far as excitement, that's subjective. I literally hated watching us play offense under leach. There's only so many rb dump offs I can take... I'd rather just hand it off to the rb than throw it to them facing a zone

[Pancho]

Why would you throw out dak's years? Dan recruited and developed him.

As far as excitement, that's subjective. I literally hated watching us play offense under leach. There's only so many rb dump offs I can take... I'd rather just hand it off to the rb than throw it to them facing a zone

KB21- ole miss troll thinks he's the only objective person on this board.

[Homedawg]

Why would you throw out dak's years? Dan recruited and developed him.

As far as excitement, that's subjective. I literally hated watching us play offense under leach. There's only so many rb dump offs I can take... I'd rather just hand it off to the rb than throw it to them facing a zone

Why would he throw them out? Bc that would ruin his narrative. So and so never works... except it has. What we do KNOW is our offense under CML was never a great offense here. guess you could call it good in year 2, maybe.

[KB21]

Why would you throw out dak's years? Dan recruited and developed him.

As far as excitement, that's subjective. I literally hated watching us play offense under leach. There's only so many rb dump offs I can take... I'd rather just hand it off to the rb than throw it to them facing a zone

Well, I can?t help that you would rather watch a team run the ball for 2 yards rather than throw it for 6.

[Commercecomet24]

Why would he throw them out? Bc that would ruin his narrative. So and so never works... except it has. What we do KNOW is our offense under CML was never a great offense here. guess you could call it good in year 2, maybe.

Nicky Fitz years here were pretty dang good too.

[ScoobaDawg]

Welcome back C34.

[msstate7]

Well, I can?t help that you would rather watch a team run the ball for 2 yards rather than throw it for 6.

Yds/play...
2022 - 5.5; ppg - 31.6; sec only ppg - 25.4
2021 - 5.9; ppg - 29.1; sec only; sec only scoring - 28.5
2017 - 5.5; ppg - 32.0; sec only scoring - 26.3
2016 - 6.1; ppg - 30.4; sec only scoring - 29.3

ETA... probably worth noting that scoring in the sec has gone up. For example, here's our sec ranks for scoring in conf only games...

2022 - 9th
2021 - 5th
2017 - 7th
2016 - 4th

[SPMT]

Yds/play...
2022 - 5.5; ppg - 31.6
2021 - 5.9; ppg - 29.1
2017 - 5.5; ppg - 32.0
2016 - 6.1; ppg - 30.4

This tells me it doesn?t really matter what we run as long as it is well thought out and talent is sufficient. We won?t exceed these unless we have some outlier talent.

[R2Dawg]

The Err Raid produced 2 exciting games, game 1 against LSU when Pelini made KJ look like a Heisman QB and the Auburn game when Harsin decided to stop coaching. Everything else was a snooze fest due to Leach trying to pound that square peg into a round hole.

I would have loved for Leach to stick around and see if his offense could have evolved but there was no guarantee that giving him 4 more years was gonna change anything just because his offense historically trended up at TT and Washington St. Even with the silly numbers that the offense was putting up, we still weren?t getting the payoff at the receiver position. We were still being out recruited by Mississippi, Arkansas and others even though we were the ?passing? team.

Unfortunately, Leach is gone and trying to hold on to his legacy by keeping his underlings on staff was never going to work long term.

Yep pretty much it.

[dawgday166]

Why would you throw out dak's years? Dan recruited and developed him.

As far as excitement, that's subjective. I literally hated watching us play offense under leach. There's only so many rb dump offs I can take... I'd rather just hand it off to the rb than throw it to them facing a zone

Won't necessarily argue but that could be due to a QB that only surveys one side of the field based on presnap read and wants to never let the pass russ get close to him.

Cole Cubelic gave a legitimate critique of Will the other day.

We'll see if the more frequent run threat will take some pressure off Will.

All of these are really moot points at this time. I think folks oughta relax and let's see what happens this coming season. Then bitch like hell if our offense sucks and they wanna bitch.

Would help that if offense is really good then folks wouldn't always be comparing to Leach Air Raid just to stir KB up. They bitch about him but when he calms down some, they poke the shit out of him to wake back up

[msstate7]

Won't necessarily argue but that could be due to a QB that only surveys one side of the field based on presnap read and wants to never let the pass russ get close to him.

Cole Cubelic gave a legitimate critique of Will the other day.

We'll see if the more frequent run threat will take some pressure off Will.

All of these are really moot points at this time. I think folks oughta relax and let's see what happens this coming season. Then bitch like hell if our offense sucks and they wanna bitch.

Would help that if offense is really good then folks wouldn't always be comparing to Leach Air Raid just to stir KB up. They bitch about him but when he calms down some, they poke the shit out of him to wake back up

I'm all for giving arnett a shot. There isn't one way to be successful in football. I will give arnett a shot like I give all new coaches. My fuse is short though haha

[R2Dawg]

Well, I can?t help that you would rather watch a team run the ball for 2 yards rather than throw it for 6.

Well 2 yds up middle is better than 4 yard loss on dump down to RB every time. Stretching the field AR would not do; we are about to do that in passing game which will open up all kinds of things run and pass. AR wasn't balanced even in passing the ball - only did one thing - short passes then 3rd and long.

[MrCoachKlein]

Unfortunately, Leach is gone and trying to hold on to his legacy by keeping his underlings on staff was never going to work long term.

KB21 trying to ruin his legacy. I was a pretty big Leach fanboy and defender when he got here. I read his book and liked a lot of what his offense did. Realized something needed to change when we went backwards last year with most of the O back. Then KB12yearOld comes around and almost has me rooting against the air raid on other teams.

[Todd4State]

This tells me it doesn?t really matter what we run as long as it is well thought out and talent is sufficient. We won?t exceed these unless we have some outlier talent.

This is correct.

Which is why recruiting is so important.

[Todd4State]

Yds/play...
2022 - 5.5; ppg - 31.6; sec only ppg - 25.4
2021 - 5.9; ppg - 29.1; sec only; sec only scoring - 28.5
2017 - 5.5; ppg - 32.0; sec only scoring - 26.3
2016 - 6.1; ppg - 30.4; sec only scoring - 29.3

ETA... probably worth noting that scoring in the sec has gone up. For example, here's our sec ranks for scoring in conf only games...

2022 - 9th
2021 - 5th
2017 - 7th
2016 - 4th

It's worth noting that we're comparing year 8 and 9 of Dan here with year 2 and 3 with Leach.

[MrCoachKlein]

This tells me it doesn?t really matter what we run as long as it is well thought out and talent is sufficient. We won?t exceed these unless we have some outlier talent.

https://i.postimg.cc/02hBnj7C/oo.gif

[dawgday166]

I'm all for giving arnett a shot. There isn't one way to be successful in football. I will give arnett a shot like I give all new coaches. My fuse is short though haha

I agree and it seems your fuse may be shorter than mine, although I legitimately think 9 wins this year. I could possibly be a little alright with 8 tho I don't count on wanting to fire anyone this year unless it's a complete disaster.

The thing is other than installing a new offense and possibly (hopefully not) a QB that may be gun shy, I don't foresee anything else to blame it on other than maybe a ton of injuries. I'm looking forward (I think haha) to seeing how it plays out and evolves.

[Coach34]

Well, I can?t help that you would rather watch a team run the ball for 2 yards rather than throw it for 6.

Fitz is the all-time leader rusher for QB's in the SEC. He was getting a tad more than 2 yards per. This BS narrative trying to be driven on Mullen is ridiculous- we were top half of the SEC in offense under Mullen. Mullen's offenses were much better than Leach's at State

Mullen finished top half of the SEC in 7 of his 9 seasons- leading the SEC in total O in 2014
Mullen finished top half of the SEC in scoring his last 4 seasons

Leach never finished in the top half in scoring and only 1 out of 3 times did he finish top half in total O- finishing 7th in 2021

Mullen's O > Leach's O at State (and it was way more interesting)

[KB21]

There is no comeback vs Auburn with Mullen?s offense. Leach?s offense scored 40 plus more often than Dan?s in his first three years as well.

Even Dan realized late that he needed to put more emphasis on the passing game. His downfall at Florida was having a QB that couldn?t throw after Trask.

[KB21]

I agree and it seems your fuse may be shorter than mine, although I legitimately think 9 wins this year. I could possibly be a little alright with 8 tho I don't count on wanting to fire anyone this year unless it's a complete disaster.

The thing is other than installing a new offense and possibly (hopefully not) a QB that may be gun shy, I don't foresee anything else to blame it on other than maybe a ton of injuries. I'm looking forward (I think haha) to seeing how it plays out and evolves.

I?m all for firing Barbay and bringing Hollingshead back.

[TrapGame]

I?m all for firing Barbay and bringing Hollingshead back.

Jesus, the man has not even called his first offense at State yet. You are one pathetic asshole.

[Jarius]

There is no comeback vs Auburn with Mullen?s offense. Leach?s offense scored 40 plus more often than Dan?s in his first three years as well.

Even Dan realized late that he needed to put more emphasis on the passing game. His downfall at Florida was having a QB that couldn?t throw after Trask.

Dan Mullen didn’t need comeback wins to beat 6-7 level football teams for the most part. He normally just beat the shit out of bad teams from start to finish.

[Coach34]

Dan Mullen didn’t need comeback wins to beat 6-7 level football teams for the most part. He normally just beat the shit out of bad teams from start to finish.

Exactly. I dont remember Mullen ever getting behind by 4 TD's against a 6-7 football team like Leach

[msstate7]

I?m all for firing Barbay and bringing Hollingshead back.

I don't agree with your take, but I can appreciate calling for coaches to be fired. You somehow jumped the gun on even me haha

[KB21]

Dan Mullen didn’t need comeback wins to beat 6-7 level football teams for the most part. He normally just beat the shit out of bad teams from start to finish.

The comeback wouldn?t have been needed if Arnett?s defense had shown up.

[Homedawg]

It's worth noting that we're comparing year 8 and 9 of Dan here with year 2 and 3 with Leach.

Also worth noting Dan walked into a terrible qb room and not much offensive talent. Leach had way more taken his first year(s) than Dan did.

[Goldendawg]

Many times Air Raid was like watching Croom's West Coast offense. Catch a short pass to a back or receiver and hope to get YAC. The very title "Air Raid" made me expect an explosive offense with long passing game involved. I saw little difference in a 12 to 15 play drive involving 3 yards and a cloud of dust or the same drive based on short to medium passes. I think if Coach Leach hadn't passed away he was headed to a more balanced offense himself.

[Homedawg]

The comeback wouldn?t have been needed if Arnett?s defense had shown up.

Did we not get the ball on offense?? Maybe I missed that part.

[Goldendawg]

KB21- ole miss troll thinks he's the only objective person on this board.

Member since 2013, but why the sudden volume of posts to attempt to impose his will and dominate/ruin threads since the coaching and offensive changes? This horse is not only dead, but beaten to a pulp! I look forward to a more balanced offense. Most programs attempt to do this. Hail State!

[Goldendawg]

I?m all for firing Barbay and bringing Hollingshead back.

What SEC teams hired Hollingshead or Spurrier Jr. to be offensive coordinators in 2023? Not saying they won't have an opportunity in the future after success at lower schools.

[KB21]

Many times Air Raid was like watching Croom's West Coast offense. Catch a short pass to a back or receiver and hope to get YAC. The very title "Air Raid" made me expect an explosive offense with long passing game involved. I saw little difference in a 12 to 15 play drive involving 3 yards and a cloud of dust or the same drive based on short to medium passes. I think if Coach Leach hadn't passed away he was headed to a more balanced offense himself.

There never was a time where I thought we should go back to the ground and pound style that most of you feel is the only way we can succeed at Mississippi State.

I could watch the team run mesh all day long.

[Goldendawg]

There never was a time where I thought we should go back to the ground and pound style that most of you feel is the only way we can succeed at Mississippi State.

I could watch the team run mesh all day long.

Never again to ground and pound, but a balanced attack might open things up and keep defenses from running a 3-8 and keeping all routes in front of the linebackers as they know passes are usually coming no matter what. The air raid has sailed, give Barbay a chance. If we have a.500 team this year and regress on O, fire him or one more year at the very most. Hail State!

[KB21]

Barbay is ground and pound.

[Goldendawg]

Barbay is ground and pound.

He wasn't in the Spring game that my son and I attended and I watched on replay on the SEC Network. In fact, saw a few jet sweeps ( one a Tulu TD), and two attempted halfback passes in the red zone. Also saw many formation shifts before both passing and running plays. I think Will actually attempted more passes than runs while he was playing. Saw more attempted long balls ( 20 plus yards).with at least 3 completions than I saw in most Air Air raid games. Did you see the well placed 55 yard TD pass from Wiil to Zavion? Playing ground and pound will not work in today's game, nor will throwing it nearly every down in front of the LB's. Hail State!

[KB21]

He wasn't in the Spring game that my son and I attended and I watched on replay on the SEC Network. In fact, saw a few jet sweeps ( one a Tulu TD), and two attempted halfback passes in the red zone. Also saw many formation shifts before both passing and running plays. I think Will actually attempted more passes than runs while he was playing. Saw more attempted long balls ( 20 plus yards).with at least 3 completions than I saw in most Air Air raid games. Did you see the well placed 55 yard TD pass from Wiil to Zavion? Playing ground and pound will not work in today's game, nor will throwing it nearly every down in front of the LB's. Hail State!

After watching 9 runs out of the first 13 plays, I fell to sleep out of boredom.

[RockyDog]

KB21 trying to ruin his legacy. I was a pretty big Leach fanboy and defender when he got here. I read his book and liked a lot of what his offense did. Realized something needed to change when we went backwards last year with most of the O back. Then KB12yearOld comes around and almost has me rooting against the air raid on other teams.

I hear ya. Lol.

Except all those other air raid programs woke up and realized the current date is 2023 not 2008 where Leach was stuck. And like I said, I loved the Leach hire. Was truly excited about it. BUT, we should have hired Leach when Morehead came on board. We waited just a bit too late. I think those few years earlier, he could have caught the SEC off guard more than he did when he eventually came here. Once Bama and LSU moved away from the ground and pound, it made it exponentially harder for a program like ours to get a leg up in the SEC

[RockyDog]

There never was a time where I thought we should go back to the ground and pound style that most of you feel is the only way we can succeed at Mississippi State.

I could watch the team run mesh all day long.

Zzzzzz

Once again NOBODY is saying we are gonna run ground and pound but your sorry ass who is spreading LIES trying to discredit the current staff.

[RockyDog]

After watching 9 runs out of the first 13 plays, I fell to sleep out of boredom.

STFU asshole. Then don?t comment if you didn?t watch. You are just a flat out LIAR

[Goldendawg]

After watching 9 runs out of the first 13 plays, I fell to sleep out of boredom..

Maybe you should watch it all. The 55 yard TD to Zavion (1 handed catch) from a QB who some think doesn't have that type arm strength was very impressive as was a 40 yard jet sweep TD by Tulu. i felt boredom many times with the short passes virtually every down in the air raid and we have had season tickets for 55 plus years. Give the new O a chance and then make judgements. Watching first 13 plays won't do it. We will been able to make our opinions known in real games very soon.

[KB21]

Jet sweeps and other gimmicks don?t excite me. Seeing a team actually use 5 potential receivers on a pass concept does excite me.

[Goldendawg]

Jet sweeps and other gimmicks don?t excite me. Seeing a team actually use 5 potential receivers on a pass concept does excite me.

We get it. Looks like you will need to follow a different team this year. You have been a member since 2013, but posted very seldom until the passing of Coach Leach. Were there any MSU offenses that you enjoyed or even had hope in before the air raid?

[MrCoachKlein]

Jet sweeps and other gimmicks don?t excite me. Seeing a team actually use 5 potential receivers on a pass concept does excite me.

Too bad you fell asleep, you'd have seen it in the spring game.

[Pancho]

Jet sweeps and other gimmicks don?t excite me. Seeing a team actually use 5 potential receivers on a pass concept does excite me.

you ole miss cucks are all the same. every dam one of you. wearing that sissy blue shirt

[Homedawg]

Jet sweeps and other gimmicks don?t excite me. Seeing a team actually use 5 potential receivers on a pass concept does excite me.

There's the problem. If we run 9 out of the first 13 plays and score then it works. But that doesn't make you happy bc we didn't pass. Which is quite moronic. But expected. If we throw it 9 out of the first 13 times and we score I'm happy. I don't care how we are effective just be effective. This offense, to me, has a greater chance of doing that. De's can't pin their ears back knowing out OT are dropping every snap. Anyway, you have your mind made up and aren't gonna give it a chance. Which is about right for a narcissistic ja.... but just do the rest of the. Lard a favor and go become a hill topper fan. They gonna chunk it a lot. Or so you say.

[RezDog7]

Why are y'all still responding to this OM troll? Ignore her/she.

[Leroy Jenkins]

Its painfully obvious that this guy is just trying to get a rise out of some of yall, and yet, somehow, you keep taking the bait. Just ignore it it is sooooo easy to just keep scrolling. Try it, you'll feel better.

"Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway."

[Todd4State]

There's the problem. If we run 9 out of the first 13 plays and score then it works. But that doesn't make you happy bc we didn't pass. Which is quite moronic. But expected. If we throw it 9 out of the first 13 times and we score I'm happy. I don't care how we are effective just be effective. This offense, to me, has a greater chance of doing that. De's can't pin their ears back knowing out OT are dropping every snap. Anyway, you have your mind made up and aren't gonna give it a chance. Which is about right for a narcissistic ja.... but just do the rest of the. Lard a favor and go become a hill topper fan. They gonna chunk it a lot. Or so you say.

The same goes for some in the fan base that want to run it all the time too.

At the end of the day we need to be happy that whatever works works. For some MSU fans "well, yeah we scored- but I didn't like how we did it."

[Todd4State]

Also worth noting Dan walked into a terrible qb room and not much offensive talent. Leach had way more taken his first year(s) than Dan did.

True. But Leach walked into Moorhead's mess.

[msstate7]

The same goes for some in the fan base that want to run it all the time too.

At the end of the day we need to be happy that whatever works works. For some MSU fans "well, yeah we scored- but I didn't like how we did it."

I would guess most want at most a 55/45 split one way or the other.

[Todd4State]

Many times Air Raid was like watching Croom's West Coast offense. Catch a short pass to a back or receiver and hope to get YAC. The very title "Air Raid" made me expect an explosive offense with long passing game involved. I saw little difference in a 12 to 15 play drive involving 3 yards and a cloud of dust or the same drive based on short to medium passes. I think if Coach Leach hadn't passed away he was headed to a more balanced offense himself.

The idea is for the guys to use YAC to make huge plays with their athleticism. The problem really was we had more possession type guys like Austin Williams and Rufus Harvey making catches in the slot. Because we didn't really use any playmakers at slot anf it hurt us throwing deep because the safeties could sit back because they really didn't have to respect our slot guys very much. Yes, Tulu would have made a huge difference in the slot. Also Will was gun shy about throwing it deep at times too.

I kind of equate it to Dan's first three years with Relf and then once he got Dak the offense began to really take off.

[Todd4State]

I would guess most want at most a 55/45 split one way or the other.

I'll say this- and I really believe it's true.

MSU fans really want to run what WKU/Wazzu runs whether they realize it or not.

Watch NOLA Bowl highlights from last year and you'll see why.

[Homedawg]

True. But Leach walked into Moorhead's mess.

His mess was discipline. It got fixed. It wasn't a talent issue like Dan had. Which was brutal. Tyson Lee was the qb for Dan. Think about that.

[KB21]

I'll say this- and I really believe it's true.

MSU fans really want to run what WKU/Wazzu runs whether they realize it or not.

Watch NOLA Bowl highlights from last year and you'll see why.

623 passes to 414 runs. That?s too much passing for some. WKU was 697 passes to 349 runs in 21.

Yes. That?s what I want to see and what would make is the most effective on offense.

[Homedawg]

I would guess most want at most a 55/45 split one way or the other.

I don't have a perfect number. What's your personnel and how can you get the most out of them to move the ball and score,? I do know that 75/25 either way doesn't work. At least not in this league w our resources.

[msstate7]

I'll say this- and I really believe it's true.

MSU fans really want to run what WKU/Wazzu runs whether they realize it or not.

Watch NOLA Bowl highlights from last year and you'll see why.

I love WKU's offense. They were 60/40 pass heavy. They used TEs, and they also ran their qb.

[msstate7]

I don't have a perfect number. What's your personnel and how can you get the most out of them to move the ball and score,? I do know that 75/25 either way doesn't work. At least not in this league w our resources.

I agree. I would think we need to be on the pass heavy side this year

[Homedawg]

623 passes to 414 runs. That?s too much passing for some. WKU was 697 passes to 349 runs in 21.

Yes. That?s what I want to see and what would make is the most effective on offense.
Wazzu? As in Washington st? Who avg 350 yards a game and tied for 8th in points scored in a terrible defensive league? That one? You want to be like that?? Boy how ambitious. But at least they check the box of throwing it.

[KB21]

There is some data available that suggests the optimal passing percentage relative to runs is between 73-83% passes.

[KB21]

Wazzu? As in Washington st? Who avg 350 yards a game and tied for 8th in points scored in a terrible defensive league? That one? You want to be like that?? Boy how ambitious. But at least they check the box of throwing it.

That was WKU.

[msstate7]

There is some data available that suggests the optimal passing percentage relative to runs is between 73-83% passes.

That's seems strictly theory. I mean who actually had splits that se severe?

[KB21]

https://davidschmerfeld.github.io/nfl-optimum-pass-run-ratio/

[msstate7]

https://davidschmerfeld.github.io/nfl-optimum-pass-run-ratio/

Bucs led the nfl passing 65% of the time, and their offense was terrible. KC was at 60% with the best qb and offensive coach combo in the game

[Coach34]

623 passes to 414 runs. That?s too much passing for some. WKU was 697 passes to 349 runs in 21.

Yes. That?s what I want to see and what would make is the most effective on offense.

If so- why didnt it make Wash St effective on offense? Because they werent and they play in a conference that doesnt play much defense

[Coach34]

That was WKU.

WKU is little boy ball and doesnt equate to the SEC.

[KB21]

And I suppose Appalachian State is big boy ball because they play it like the cavemen played it 100 years ago

[Really Clark?]

That's seems strictly theory. I mean who actually had splits that se severe?

It is and the article he is referencing states it's an Abstract at the top. The problem with the theory from past data is you can't accurately predict the outcome that article stats it does because defenses would adjust more if you actually went that pass heavy. Teams would then begin running more against light boxes and the data would change for the EPA and WP skewing back toward the run game. You can't make these direct correlations in a vacuum and make definite outcome statements for the future. The opposition adjusts too.

[Homedawg]

That was WKU.

Wazzu was mentioned. You said they were good. That's garbage. Terrible. Be like them. Great.

[Coach34]

And I suppose Appalachian State is big boy ball because they play it like the cavemen played it 100 years ago

App State always make sure they play a Big Boy most seasons and is highly competitive

2022- played NC and A&M. Scored 61 on NC and they beat A&M.
2021- played Miami and beat East Carolina
2020- Covid
2019- Beat NC
2018- Lost to Penn State in OT- scoring 38 points

2-3 vs P5 with an OT loss to a Top 10 team in the last 5 seasons. Beat a highly-ranked A&M team that imploded

Western Kentucky:

2022- lost to 4-8 Indiana and then got blown out 41-17 to Auburn and interim coach Cadillac Williams
2021- lost again to Big Ten Indiana and also to Michigan State
2020- lost to Louisville and got blown the hell out 41-10 by BYU. Scored 21 on Louisville tho
2019- lost to Louisville but did beat 0-8 in the SEC UPig
2018- lost to Louisville 20-17

1-9 against a real schedule. Only win was 0-8 in the SEC UPig. Once aGAIN showing one of these is not like the other. One team competes with P5 teams and one does not

[Todd4State]

App State always make sure they play a Big Boy most seasons and is highly competitive

2022- played NC and A&M. Scored 61 on NC and they beat A&M.
2021- played Miami and beat East Carolina
2020- Covid
2019- Beat NC
2018- Lost to Penn State in OT- scoring 38 points

2-3 vs P5 with an OT loss to a Top 10 team in the last 5 seasons. Beat a highly-ranked A&M team that imploded

Western Kentucky:

2022- lost to 4-8 Indiana and then got blown out 41-17 to Auburn and interim coach Cadillac Williams
2021- lost again to Big Ten Indiana and also to Michigan State
2020- lost to Louisville and got blown the hell out 41-10 by BYU. Scored 21 on Louisville tho
2019- lost to Louisville but did beat 0-8 in the SEC UPig
2018- lost to Louisville 20-17

1-9 against a real schedule. Only win was 0-8 in the SEC UPig. Once aGAIN showing one of these is not like the other. One team competes with P5 teams and one does not

WKU's offense scored the exact same amount of points as Barbay did against A&M. App State beat A&M because of their defense and the fact that Jimbo sucks.

It's irrelevant because if we hired someone from WKU they would be running their scheme with SEC players. Not C-USA players.

[Todd4State]

Wazzu was mentioned. You said they were good. That's garbage. Terrible. Be like them. Great.

Since I was the first to mention Wazzu what I meant was Wazzu hired Arbuckle from Western Kentucky in the offseason.

[Todd4State]

Bucs led the nfl passing 65% of the time, and their offense was terrible. KC was at 60% with the best qb and offensive coach combo in the game

Some studies I've seen suggest that around 60% is probably optimal if you take into account game situation.

In general the idea is basically you should pass to get the lead and then run to stay there. The study I saw said you should pass most of the time and in most situations but if the opponent is weak against the run or presents a light box you should run against it. That's what the Chiefs did in the Super Bowl this year. The Eagles played pass and the Chiefs ran more than their usual because of what was presented to them. It worked well.

Analytics is mostly like pretty much pass on first down almost every time unless it's first and 5 or 1st and goal from the 6 yard line. And if you do run you should use an "exotic" play like what we ran with Tulu in the spring game or a reverse or something like that.

You should run play action on almost every second down situation and especially on 2nd and 1. You should basically be looking to attack deep on second down.

Third down should be some kind of a constraint play pass based on down and distance unless it's third and one.

Fourth down you should basically go for it almost every time you get to the 40 unless you are in an extremely long fourth down situation.

But there are indeed times to run such as if you have the lead and you want to run the clock out, you are facing a team that is poor against the run and it's second or third and five or less the EPA may sometimes favor running like when we're playing Ole Miss most years, or as we said before about the light box.

[Jarius]

The same goes for some in the fan base that want to run it all the time too.

At the end of the day we need to be happy that whatever works works. For some MSU fans "well, yeah we scored- but I didn't like how we did it."

Where are all these people who want to run it all the time? I have yet to see them.

[MrCoachKlein]

623 passes to 414 runs. That?s too much passing for some. WKU was 697 passes to 349 runs in 21.

Yes. That?s what I want to see and what would make is the most effective on offense.

Why'd they waste 414 plays?

[Todd4State]

Where are all these people who want to run it all the time? I have yet to see them.

Maybe not all the time but there are some that want to run it the majority of the time.

[Homedawg]

Since I was the first to mention Wazzu what I meant was Wazzu hired Arbuckle from Western Kentucky in the offseason.

Gotcha.

[KB21]

I can?t imagine anyone who is serious and not stupid actually say they would prefer App State?s offense to Western Kentucky?s offense.

[Extendedcab]

I can?t imagine anyone who is serious and not stupid actually say they would prefer App State?s offense to Western Kentucky?s offense.

Please, give it up for the sake of what sane members we have left? It is a 1000 times beaten dead horse, there is nothing left, not even the bones! There is just a grease spot left! L E T I T G O !

[Pancho]

I can?t imagine anyone who is serious and not stupid actually say they would prefer App State?s offense to Western Kentucky?s offense.

you sissy blue shirt closet shark ,racists are the purest cuck's on the planet. you have a true case of lil man's disease.

[Jarius]

Maybe not all the time but there are some that want to run it the majority of the time.

Like who? I have seen no one on here say they want to run it most of the time. I have seen a lot say they want to be balanced.

[KB21]

The issue is, what most of you believe is balanced is not really balanced. Balance on offense is when you have all your skill players touching the ball and contributing to your offense. Balance is not 50% run and 50% pass.

[Pancho]

balanced assessment is you are an ole miss cuck

[bulldawg28]

The issue is, what most of you believe is balanced is not really balanced. Balance on offense is when you have all your skill players touching the ball and contributing to your offense. Balance is not 50% run and 50% pass.

Leach made you believe that. He never won ANY championships with that philosophy. Stats are for analysts.

[KB21]

What I like about analytics is that it proves conventional thought to be worthless.

If you want to win, you have to throw the ball and stop the other team from throwing it.

[Homedawg]

What I like about analytics is that it proves conventional thought to be worthless.

If you want to win, you have to throw the ball and stop the other team from throwing it.

Analytics are all knowing. Analytics say NEVER punt. If you try that your will lose a ton of games. But carry on w analytics being perfect....that in itself shows it doesn't prove anything.

[KB21]

Analytics are all knowing. Analytics say NEVER punt. If you try that your will lose a ton of games. But carry on w analytics being perfect

Analytics are about optimizing your probability to win. When you dig into it, you realize that running the ball is almost completely useless. The running game should be nothing more than a constraint play.

[Jarius]

The issue is, what most of you believe is balanced is not really balanced. Balance on offense is when you have all your skill players touching the ball and contributing to your offense. Balance is not 50% run and 50% pass.

Balance is being able to run and pass effectively based on the look the defense gives you, no matter the splits. All of our skill players are not equally as talented, so giving someone that isn’t as good the same amount of touches as our best skill players is extremely damn stupid.

[KB21]

Hollingshead?s offense score 7 TDs today. Barbay?s scored 3 last week.

[Coach34]

Hollingshead?s offense score 7 TDs today. Barbay?s scored 3 last week.

lmao- you comparing a Spring Game now? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Jarius]

Hollingshead?s offense score 7 TDs today. Barbay?s scored 3 last week.

Hollingshead’s offense was playing CUSA talent. Barbay’s offense was playing SEC talent. You would think you would know how big of a difference that makes after watching Leach’s offense shit the bed for 3 years against most SEC defenses.

[KB21]

Hollingshead runs a vastly superior scheme. It?s going to be much more productive and much more fun to watch than Barbay?s ?got to establish the run? scheme.

[Goldendawg]

Hollingshead runs a vastly superior scheme. It?s going to be much more productive and much more fun to watch than Barbay?s ?got to establish the run? scheme.

If you don't mind saying what is the first offense you saw at State and who were the offensive coordinator and Head Coach?

[Coach34]

Hollingshead runs a vastly superior scheme. It?s going to be much more productive and much more fun to watch than Barbay?s ?got to establish the run? scheme.

He may do ok in little boy ball. The SEC is where the pretenders get sordid out- like Leach. Who in 3 years NEVER finished in the top half of the SEC in scoring. 0-for ****ing 3. The pure Air Raid failed in the SEC for now and forever.

[parabrave]

Hollingshead runs a vastly superior scheme. It?s going to be much more productive and much more fun to watch than Barbay?s ?got to establish the run? scheme.

well then go over to their boards and suck up to them and go away

[Goldendawg]

He may do ok in little boy ball. The SEC is where the pretenders get sordid out- like Leach. Who in 3 years NEVER finished in the top half of the SEC in scoring. 0-for ****ing 3. The pure Air Raid failed in the SEC for now and forever.

Every offensive coach that left us and became an OC is at a lower level program with the highest being Tulsa. Doesn't seem to be any with an SEC OC position. They may work their way into this in the future, but no one seems to think they were experienced or ready for 2023.

[KB21]

Every offensive coach that left us and became an OC is at a lower level program with the highest being Tulsa. Doesn't seem to be any with an SEC OC position. They may work their way into this in the future, but no one seems to think they were experienced or ready for 2023.

We didn?t win a bidding war over Kevin Ground Chuck Barbay.

[msstate7]

We didn?t win a bidding war over Kevin Ground Chuck Barbay.

I'm genuinely curious if you'll just disappear if we're improved on offense. Will you man up and admit you were wrong if we improve?

[Jarius]

Hollingshead runs a vastly superior scheme. It?s going to be much more productive and much more fun to watch than Barbay?s ?got to establish the run? scheme.

Probably so. It’s not hard to put up points against a bunch of shitty defenses. When you graduate to big boy ball that scheme gets its shit kicked in unless you have superior talent (just like all schemes), as all of us saw for 3 years.

[Jarius]

We didn?t win a bidding war over Kevin Ground Chuck Barbay.

None of Leach’s assistants were coveted by any SEC programs. That’s why they are all in g5 leagues right now.

[KB21]

None of Leach’s assistants were coveted by any SEC programs. That’s why they are all in g5 leagues right now.

That?s only because Arnett strung them out and made it to where they couldn?t land another P5 job. I?m still waiting to hear who we beat out for Barbay.

[Goldendawg]

That?s only because Arnett strung them out and made it to where they couldn?t land another P5 job. I?m still waiting to hear who we beat out for Barbay.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me the first State offense you ever watched and if you liked that one or any since leading up to the air raid. I've watched them from Wade Walker to this point. What you got?

[KB21]

I'm still waiting to you to tell me the first State offense you ever watched and if you liked that one or any since leading up to the air raid.

Felker and his option offense.

If Jackie had ever let Arians throw it the way he wanted to, then that would have been one I would have liked.

Leach and Arians are the best offensive minds we have ever had.

[MrCoachKlein]

Hollingshead?s offense score 7 TDs today. Barbay?s scored 3 last week.

How'd Leach do vs CZA again in spring games? I forget. He had to have put up 50 on each side since his offense is supreme and CZA is a meat head.

[MrCoachKlein]

I still want to know why your most coveted offense of last year wasted 414 plays running the ball and didn't come close to getting a decent bowl

I'm on saintsreport and I thought I'd seen the worst of all dumbasses there but you're on another level

[Goldendawg]

Felker and his option offense.

If Jackie had ever let Arians throw it the way he wanted to, then that would have been one I would have liked.

Leach and Arians are the best offensive minds we have ever had.

Thanks, but Felker only had one winning season (6-5) and the rest was horrible. Guess you were miserable from Jackie to Leach, huh? Can't blame you for the Croom and JoMo years. Didn't you even enjoy the good Dan years, especially the run to #1? BTW, I hated how he always drew up against bama and cost us a couple of OM games as he didn't prepare our team, as he and his agent were on his annual job search his last few years.

[KB21]

I forgot to mention that we have already seen the offense Barbay runs fail in the SEC since he runs Jim McElwain?s offense. It didn?t have success with Florida level talent.

[KB21]

https://theappalachianonline.com/from-promise-to-heartbreak-what-went-wrong-for-the-mountaineers-in-2022/

As the season progressed, the offensive play calling became more conservative. Instead of taking shots down the field, offensive coordinator and play-caller Kevin Barbay opted for more run-based and short passes.
?I feel like since the second-half of the James Madison game where we got really conservative and they ended up coming back and we ended up blowing that lead, I think from that point on we got really predictable,? Hennigan said

[KB21]

https://twitter.com/hanalei91/status/1646891075208880128?s=46&t=boMwTsd5d1vappV0mJtn8g

[Really Clark?]

Hollingshead runs a vastly superior scheme. It?s going to be much more productive and much more fun to watch than Barbay?s ?got to establish the run? scheme.

Name the P5 teams WKU has beat with a vastly superior scheme. There should be a bunch of upset wins for them if it is a vastly superior scheme.

[msstate7]

Taken from hailstate...

"...According to Matrix Analytical, Barbay ranks No. 1 among active FBS offensive coordinators in career average pass game efficiency. He was one of just two Group of Five play callers in 2022 to produce an Explosive Pass Rate Percentage above 19 percent with a top 35 scoring efficiency offense.

Among FBS offensive coordinators since 2009, Barbay ranks per Matrix Analytical:
Inside the Top 15 percent in Passing Touchdowns Per Attempt
Inside the Top 20 percent in Fewest Interceptions Per Attempt
Inside the Top 25 percent in both QB Rating and QB Efficiency
Inside the Top 30 percent in Yards Per Attempt..."

https://hailstate.com/sports/football/roster/coaches/kevin-barbay/2765

Do you believe in the analytics, KB, or do you just like them when they agree with you?

[parabrave]

Thanks, but Felker only had one winning season (6-5) and the rest was horrible. Guess you were miserable from Jackie to Leach, huh? Can't blame you for the Croom and JoMo years. Didn't you even enjoy the good Dan years, especially the run to #1? BTW, I hated how he always drew up against bama and cost us a couple of OM games as he didn't prepare our team, as he and his agent were on his annual job search his last few years.

Just imagine if Fair would've been healthy the entire time.

[BrunswickDawg]

I forgot to mention that we have already seen the offense Barbay runs fail in the SEC since he runs Jim McElwain?s offense. It didn?t have success with Florida level talent.

If winning back to back SEC division titles in your first 2 seasons is failure, I'll take some of that.

[Jarius]

That?s only because Arnett strung them out and made it to where they couldn?t land another P5 job. I?m still waiting to hear who we beat out for Barbay.

No, it’s because our offense sucked.

[Homedawg]

I'm genuinely curious if you'll just disappear if we're improved on offense. Will you man up and admit you were wrong if we improve?

You really asked that? Dude dodges and deflects now. Hell no he won't.

[Homedawg]

That?s only because Arnett strung them out and made it to where they couldn?t land another P5 job. I?m still waiting to hear who we beat out for Barbay.

He strung who out?? Mason? Damn sure didn't w spurrier. He knew he was gone before the bowl game. Damn sure didn't w drew. He knew he was gone. You are clueless

[Homedawg]

https://theappalachianonline.com/from-promise-to-heartbreak-what-went-wrong-for-the-mountaineers-in-2022/

As the season progressed, the offensive play calling became more conservative. Instead of taking shots down the field, offensive coordinator and play-caller Kevin Barbay opted for more run-based and short passes.
?I feel like since the second-half of the James Madison game where we got really conservative and they ended up coming back and we ended up blowing that lead, I think from that point on we got really predictable,? Hennigan said

When Barbary and cza blow a 35 point lead in the third let me know. At least they will be equal to the great one then.

[KB21]

If winning back to back SEC division titles in your first 2 seasons is failure, I'll take some of that.

100th in scoring offense in 2015.
107th in scoring offense in 2016.
108th in scoring offense in 2017.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/os-sp-spurrier-orlando-gators-mcelwain-alliance-of-american-football-20180407-story.html

This offense was so bad that it made Spurrier want to start coaching again.

[Really Clark?]

Good thing Barbay is running his own offense then and attempted to throw the ball nearly 70% of the time with our first string offense.

[KB21]

Keep trying to convince yourself that Barbay is running a different base offense than McElwain despite the fact that he not only spent most of his college coaching career with Jim, he specifically mentions how much influence Jim had in his coaching.

[BuckyIsAB****]

What I like about analytics is that it proves conventional thought to be worthless.

If you want to win, you have to throw the ball and stop the other team from throwing it.

Teams that win championships in the state of MS run the ball and win rings bc they can run it when they want to and throw it when they want to. That is balance. Making the defense account for both. Not how many times you do either. I am all for Leach, tbink he is an all time great. He didnt win bc of the air raid. He won bc of the intangibles and the way he had his programs ran.

[BuckyIsAB****]

He may do ok in little boy ball. The SEC is where the pretenders get sordid out- like Leach. Who in 3 years NEVER finished in the top half of the SEC in scoring. 0-for ****ing 3. The pure Air Raid failed in the SEC for now and forever.

Slow down. That is a pretty hot take

[KB21]

Teams that win championships in the state of MS run the ball and win rings bc they can run it when they want to and throw it when they want to. That is balance. Making the defense account for both. Not how many times you do either. I am all for Leach, tbink he is an all time great. He didnt win bc of the air raid. He won bc of the intangibles and the way he had his programs ran.

That?s because most high school coaches in Mississippi are 25 years behind everyone else.

[Really Clark?]

Keep trying to convince yourself that Barbay is running a different base offense than McElwain despite the fact that he not only spent most of his college coaching career with Jim, he specifically mentions how much influence Jim had in his coaching.

Don't have to, I can actually read what he is running with open mind. Unlike you who is completely blinded by an agenda. We ran some air raid passing concepts, we ran 10 personnel which you claimed he wouldn't ever do, we threw it more than we ran which you keep claiming he wouldn't ever do, etc. You are just wrong. And before you default to the lie that you only watch the first 13 plays because they were 9 runs...if that's true I hate you did not watch us beat Arkansas last year since you turned off Mike Leach running the ball 8 times in our first 13 plays

[ScoobaDawg]

Oh it's gonna be a fun summer...

[Homedawg]

Keep trying to convince yourself that Barbay is running a different base offense than McElwain despite the fact that he not only spent most of his college coaching career with Jim, he specifically mentions how much influence Jim had in his coaching.

Just ignore the blowing a 35 point lead huh??

[KB21]

Just ignore the blowing a 35 point lead huh??

First, I don?t recall a 35 point lead that was blown. I do recall Arnett?s defense blowing a 25 point lead against Auburn that Leach?s offense had to bail him out.

[Homedawg]

First, I don?t recall a 35 point lead that was blown. I do recall Arnett?s defense blowing a 25 point lead against Auburn that Leach?s offense had to bail him out.

My apologies, it was a 32 point lead CML blew against ucla at wash st.

[Homedawg]

First, I don?t recall a 35 point lead that was blown. I do recall Arnett?s defense blowing a 25 point lead against Auburn that Leach?s offense had to bail him out.

You mean the one that we led by 18, not 25. And our offensive possessions in the third q were, turnover on downs, int, punt, punt, punt, punt....that one?????

[BuckyIsAB****]

That?s because most high school coaches in Mississippi are 25 years behind everyone else.

I whole heartedly disagree. You are talking our your rear end here buddy

[dawgday166]

Ahhh ... the thread and debate that never ends.

Some folks saying stuff that's just wrong. Mullen didn't finish in the top half of SEC in scoring offense in any of his 1st 3 years and that's both within and conference and all games too. I proved once before that Mullen primarily won with D with exception of 2014. And the vaunted 2010 team finished 10th overall and 11th in conference in scoring offense. People wanna say Mullen inherited a worse situation but I believe they were very similar. The cultures they inherited were probably comparable. Mullen inherited a better Oline IMO. And Leach started out with true Fr skill players in the Covid year.

We'll really never know for sure if the pure Air Raid would've worked in SEC cause Leach died before it got over the couple of humps it had. He certainly was gonna have to recruit more mobile QBs than before IMO.

As far as Wash St vs MSU comparison that's not apples to apples IMO for a couple of reasons and they are skill players and Dlinemen. Some teams in Pac 12 can recruit pretty good along those lines such as USC and Washington. But how many of those are going to be easily recruited to the far Eastern boondocks of Wash St that is out in the middle of nowhere and with no lights/entertainment close by? Anyone he recruited was also gonna have to be a good ways from home, which isn't the case at MSU. But Leach still did pretty darn good for being in that location, with those recruiting handicaps. Similar to Texas Tech.

IMO we'll just never know and it doesn't matter now anyway. There ain't another Leach. Right now I hope the Barbay hire is a home run hire and Will will become more comfortable in the pocket and allow the longer pass patterns time to develop.

ETA: 10 wins ... no excuses. Just win baby!

[Jarius]

First, I don?t recall a 35 point lead that was blown. I do recall Arnett?s defense blowing a 25 point lead against Auburn that Leach?s offense had to bail him out.

You must have been passed out drunk. The defense was put in awful situations the entire second half due to our offense who shit the bed the entire year against any defense with a pulse.

[KB21]

You must have been passed out drunk. The defense was put in awful situations the entire second half due to our offense who shit the bed the entire year against any defense with a pulse.

Auburn had a one dimensional offense that was moving the ball at will on Arnett?s defense. If anyone really wants to turn this into Arnett versus Leach, then Leach wins that 10 times out of 10.

[Jarius]

Auburn had a one dimensional offense that was moving the ball at will on Arnett?s defense. If anyone really wants to turn this into Arnett versus Leach, then Leach wins that 10 times out of 10.

Auburn scored 2 touchdowns in that game because of our offense giving the ball to Auburn with 35 yards and 16 yards to go to score a touchdown. The defense was able to hold on the other awful turnover inside our own 10 yard line and gave up 330 yards of offense in the entire night. Anyone blaming the defense for that meltdown is an actual retard.

[Pancho]

that does describe this KB21 prick

[Really Clark?]

Auburn had a one dimensional offense that was moving the ball at will on Arnett?s defense. If anyone really wants to turn this into Arnett versus Leach, then Leach wins that 10 times out of 10.

No, even analytical efficiency rankings had Arnett's defense ranked higher not just in pure stats. His 3 year average of DF+ beats our offense considerably

[Coach34]

ETA: 10 wins ... no excuses. Just win baby!

No matter how many times you post that- nobody ever said it. Not once.

But I can assure you this team this Fall will be just as good or better than last year's team

[Coach34]

Auburn had a one dimensional offense that was moving the ball at will on Arnett?s defense. If anyone really wants to turn this into Arnett versus Leach, then Leach wins that 10 times out of 10.

You just keep spouting off dumb shit. Wow. SEC ranks:

2020- Scoring O 13th Scoring D- 6th
2021- Scoring O 9th Scoring D- 9th
2022- Scoring O 8th Scoring D- 7th

[DownwardDawg]

You just keep spouting off dumb shit. Wow. SEC ranks:

2020- Scoring O 13th Scoring D- 6th
2021- Scoring O 9th Scoring D- 9th
2022- Scoring O 8th Scoring D- 7th

There's no way he can be as dumb as his posts. He's 100% trolling and destroying the board when we're not focused on baseball. When baseball season ends it'll be insufferable.

[Coach34]

There's no way he can be as dumb as his posts. He's 100% trolling and destroying the board when we're not focused on baseball. When baseball season ends it'll be insufferable.

Agree. Not to mention the Scoring Avg was helped by defensive and ST TD's. It's been clear for 3 years which was the better side of the ball. It's literally the reason Arnett is our HC now

[Really Clark?]

Agree. Not to mention the Scoring Avg was helped by defensive and ST TD's. It's been clear for 3 years which was the better side of the ball. It's literally the reason Arnett is our HC now

We actually lead the conference in defensive and ST scoring this year.

[dawgday166]

No matter how many times you post that- nobody ever said it. Not once.

But I can assure you this team this Fall will be just as good or better than last year's team

Lol ... I never said that you said that and it's not meant just for you. And you made my point with your last sentence since on paper they should be.

For some reason folks think we should win 10 every 4th year or so even tho we've only done it 3 times in our entire history. They also think KY should be an auto win even tho before Mullen they led the series. We lost 2 tough games last year folks thought we shouldn't lose but still won 8 which historically speaking is a good year for us.

I'm just trying to fit in with the Romans.

[KB21]

Lol ... I never said that you said that and it's not meant just for you. And you made my point with your last sentence since on paper they should be.

For some reason folks think we should win 10 every 4th year or so even tho we've only done it 3 times in our entire history. They also think KY should be an auto win even tho before Mullen they led the series. We lost 2 tough games last year folks thought we shouldn't lose but still won 8 which historically speaking is a good year for us.

I'm just trying to fit in with the Romans.

It burns his ass that Mike Leach was able to win here.

[dawgday166]

It burns his ass that Mike Leach was able to win here.

Until somebody comes along and takes down Saban or Kirby, the best anyone will do is Mullen/Leach type results.

[Really Clark?]

It burns his ass that Mike Leach was able to win here.

It would burn you up if you stepped outside of your delusional narcissism to realize that Arnett had at least as much to do with our success. So much so that Mike Leach hand picked him to be his predecessor.

[Homedawg]

It burns his ass that Mike Leach was able to win here.

This is such a dumb take. Nobody wanted him to lose. Everyone, except you, wants to win. You will only be happy if we throw it 60 times a game and don't care if we win.

[KB21]

Until somebody comes along and takes down Saban or Kirby, the best anyone will do is Mullen/Leach type results.

And when you try to play the game the way they are playing it, you will never have the talent to knock them off. You have to be different. Mike Leach gave us a chance to be different. Zach Arnett had the opportunity to continue to be different, but he decided to go with a pro style offense the way they do.