Post-spring roster moves have already started.

[Leroy Jenkins]

.... and it's not even post-spring yet. The WR dead-weight purge continues.


https://twitter.com/dortchmarquez/status/1642659026981773313?s=46&t=DGtd-fTS2I8QetuRZ9flcA

[RiverCityDawg]

.... and it's not even post-spring yet...

https://twitter.com/dortchmarquez/status/1642659026981773313?s=46&t=DGtd-fTS2I8QetuRZ9flcA

He's already been passed by a true freshman, and he's no better than 4th string. No reason to wait.

We'll need to lose a couple more receivers and some at other positions too in order to make the numbers work. We're about 5 over the 85 limit currently.

[Pancho]

get er done

[Cooterpoot]

Jack Harris is gone too

[Goldendawg]

He's already been passed by a true freshman, and he's no better than 4th string. No reason to wait.

We'll need to lose a couple more receivers and some at other positions too in order to make the numbers work. We're about 5 over the 85 limit currently.

I counted about 14 players on the roster including a couple of walkons at the slot position, (count did not include WR's), before Spring practice began. New offense will not support keeping these high numbers. There will probably be several more hit the portal after practice is over.

Possible slot players: Tolo, Harvey, Walley, Thomas, Creedmore, Bellazar,.... This does not include the wideouts and now TE's. We are also planning to get Tolo more touches that he needs. Heck, I have worried if there would be enough touches for Harvey. Have to keep the best.

[parabrave]

Listen to T and L and they will tell you about what Arnett us doing with the slot and Tulu. It all good.

[R2Dawg]

Not related to the portal stuff but I really like stuff I'm seeing and hearing from Arnett. We got a Bulldog HC that fits who MSU is. I've heard players brag about coming to MSU and working hard under Arnett.

We got this mindset leading football and now basketball with Jans. Need to get it back in baseball which we have lost our identity.

[R2Dawg]

I counted about 14 players on the roster including a couple of walkons at the slot position, (count did not include WR's), before Spring practice began. New offense will not support keeping these high numbers. There will probably be several more hit the portal after practice is over.

Possible slot players: Tolo, Harvey, Walley, Thomas, Creedmore, Bellazar,.... This does not include the wideouts and now TE's. We are also planning to get Tolo more touches that he needs. Heck, I have worried if there would be enough touches for Harvey. Have to keep the best.

We don't need 25 WR. I feel like we sacrificed too many D positions to overfill WR last few years. Roster balance will return.

[Leroy Jenkins]

Listen to T and L and they will tell you about what Arnett us doing with the slot and Tulu. It all good.

I donk know about T&L but Barbay said we are going to hand the ball to the WRs a lot more and use more WR screens.

[parabrave]

I donk know about T&L but Barbay said we are going to hand the ball to the WRs a lot more and use more WR screens.

They were talking about Tulu running 80yd TDs on Screens. The idea is get the ball to Tulu and Zavion the ball in space. A Novel idea.

[Leroy Jenkins]

They were talking about Tulu running 80yd TDs on Screens. The idea is get the ball to Tulu and Zavion the ball in space. A Novel idea.

LOL. Ahhhh-mazing.

[TrapGame]

Not related to the portal stuff but I really like stuff I'm seeing and hearing from Arnett. We got a Bulldog HC that fits who MSU is. I've heard players brag about coming to MSU and working hard under Arnett.

We got this mindset leading football and now basketball with Jans. Need to get it back in baseball which we have lost our identity.

The guy ESPN sent down to interview him last week can't stop raving about him. He thinks we struck gold in our own backyard.

[Leroy Jenkins]

The guy ESPN sent down to interview him last week can't stop raving about him. He thinks we struck gold in our own backyard.

I saw one that said (paraphrasing)..."Make no mistake, Arnett was a continuity hire........ but, it is a continuity hire of a guy who will be a HC sooner than later."

[SPMT]

They were talking about Tulu running 80yd TDs on Screens. The idea is get the ball to Tulu and Zavion the ball in space. A Novel idea.

Sounds good. I?m an Arnett and Barbary supporter but we?ve all heard the ?get the best players the ball in space? comment before. Explosive plays are hard to come by. And there will be much bitching and gnashing of teeth.

[HeCannotGo]

For a minute there, I was afraid Dortch had left out the obligatory "with that being said" phrase from his announcement. He made me read to the last sentence to find it. Who writes these things for these guys, and how did that phrase make its way into the template?

[Pancho]

no comment

[TrapGame]

I saw one that said (paraphrasing)..."Make no mistake, Arnett was a continuity hire........ but, it is a continuity hire of a guy who will be a HC sooner than later."

The same guy was on SEC Radio with Chris Doering and went into further detail about his conversation with Arnett. He thinks Arnett might be the best kept coaching secret in the SEC. He also said Barbay has 100% autonomy with the offense like ZA had with the defense under Leach. Brock and ZA will craft the D game plan but Brock will call the defense on the field on game day.

[R2Dawg]

The guy ESPN sent down to interview him last week can't stop raving about him. He thinks we struck gold in our own backyard.

I may be wrong but I've got that feeling too.

[Jarius]

Sounds good. I?m an Arnett and Barbary supporter but we?ve all heard the ?get the best players the ball in space? comment before. Explosive plays are hard to come by. And there will be much bitching and gnashing of teeth.

Barbay is going to get our receivers involved in the run game more often on motion.

[R2Dawg]

Sounds good. I?m an Arnett and Barbary supporter but we?ve all heard the ?get the best players the ball in space? comment before. Explosive plays are hard to come by. And there will be much bitching and gnashing of teeth.

Last time I remember hearing get best players in space was Mullen and that went pretty good.

[parabrave]

Last time I remember hearing get best players in space was Mullen and that went pretty good.

Well Nullen kept on running the best we had to run in space up the middle all that season. Bless Brandon Holloway for taking that beating.

[SPMT]

Last time I remember hearing get best players in space was Mullen and that went pretty good.

I don?t remember seeing that, at least not like UF did.

Need to look back.

UF athletes at that time > than most we?ve had though.

[Goldendawg]

Last time I remember hearing get best players in space was Mullen and that went pretty good.

I seem to remember Dan often playing his Seniors and upper class men before many younger players who were better.

[BorneDawg]

I seem to remember Dan often playing his Seniors and upper class men before many younger players who were better.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Goldendawg again.

[KB21]

I don?t remember seeing that, at least not like UF did.

Need to look back.

UF athletes at that time > than most we?ve had though.

The only offense we have had that truly attacked open space is the Air Raid.

[Cooterpoot]

The only offense we have had that truly attacked open space is the Air Raid.

If you mean that 5 yards off the line open space.

[Johnson85]

The same guy was on SEC Radio with Chris Doering and went into further detail about his conversation with Arnett. He thinks Arnett might be the best kept coaching secret in the SEC. He also said Barbay has 100% autonomy with the offense like ZA had with the defense under Leach. Brock and ZA will craft the D game plan but Brock will call the defense on the field on game day.

This is encouraging to hear, I guess. I was hoping he'd get an assistant that could help with game management duties and let Arnett continue to call the defense just because I think Arnett is a good play caller, but since we didn't go that route, I am glad he's not going to try to take on too much.

[CaptainObvious]

If you mean that 5 yards off the line open space.

Oh there was more open space. We just had a QB with #throwitmorethen5yardsaphobia

[BuckyIsAB****]

Yeah what is that QBs record as a starter and what all school and conference records does he hold? He sucks

[HancockCountyDog]

If you mean that 5 yards off the line open space.

I wish i still had the picture of Dak running through about a 8 yard hole against LSU in 2014. One of my favorite games of all time.

[parabrave]

If you mean that 5 yards off the line open space.

Naw thats rep.

[RockyDog]

Yeah what is that QBs record as a starter and what all school and conference records does he hold? He sucks

For a QB that has thrown double the amount of passes than the average player at his position, he?s probably one of the best.

[BuckyIsAB****]

For a QB that has thrown double the amount of passes than the average player at his position, he?ns probably one of the best.

Yeah the best passer in the history of our school. More wins over ranked opponents than most of them if not all. He did what he was coached to do with a WR group that let Illinois literally run cover 1 the entire game and could
Not get open. If he threw a swing we bitched, he took a sack to push it down field (into 2 and most of the time 3 deep looks) we bitched. All
He has done is win

[bulldawg28]

Last time I remember hearing get best players in space was Mullen and that went pretty good.

It went great

[Todd4State]

Yeah the best passer in the history of our school. More wins over ranked opponents than most of them if not all. He did what he was coached to do with a WR group that let Illinois literally run cover 1 the entire game and could
Not get open. If he threw a swing we bitched, he took a sack to push it down field (into 2 and most of the time 3 deep looks) we bitched. All
He has done is win

I definitely remember people saying we would never win 9 games with him.

[SPMT]

It went great

Don?t really remember us blowing the doors off many with mullen though.

He was versatile in many ways, like the ball control offense he used against UF with Relf. Kept the game close. Mullen was an exceptional coach when locked in.

[R2Dawg]

If you mean that 5 yards off the line open space.

All that open space 5 yards behind the LOS with tackle for loss.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Yeah the best passer in the history of our school. More wins over ranked opponents than most of them if not all. He did what he was coached to do with a WR group that let Illinois literally run cover 1 the entire game and could
Not get open. If he threw a swing we bitched, he took a sack to push it down field (into 2 and most of the time 3 deep looks) we bitched. All
He has done is win

They ran Cover 1 because there was no fear they may need over the top help. I do agree with you he was coached what to do though. It seemed like most of our plays if the primary guy wasn't open it was either a coverage sack or a swing out to the back who would get blown up. In 2021 I felt Will worked through his progressions way more than last year. Now that could've had a lot to do with having Polk as the safety valve instead of Marks or Johnson. Always knowing you had 4 to 6 yards allowed you to play a little more aggressive.

[TrapGame]

They ran Cover 1 because there was no fear they may need over the top help. I do agree with you he was coached what to do though. It seemed like most of our plays if the primary guy wasn't open it was either a coverage sack or a swing out to the back who would get blown up. In 2021 I felt Will worked through his progressions way more than last year. Now that could've had a lot to do with having Polk as the safety valve instead of Marks or Johnson. Always knowing you had 4 to 6 yards allowed you to play a little more aggressive.

I think losing Polk hurt us more than some of us wanted to admit (I'm one). He was a solid go-to guy. No one really stepped up to fill his shoes. I'm really looking forward to seeing Will in this system. He won't have the entire weight of the offense on his shoulders.

[Johnson85]

I think losing Polk hurt us more than some of us wanted to admit (I'm one). He was a solid go-to guy. No one really stepped up to fill his shoes. I'm really looking forward to seeing Will in this system. He won't have the entire weight of the offense on his shoulders.

Losing Polk hurt but I think Cross was probably a bigger deal as far as how Rogers played. Just a guess on my part though.

[CaptainObvious]

Yeah what is that QBs record as a starter and what all school and conference records does he hold? He sucks

I have no problem with Will?s ability to complete 35 passes for 7 yards per catch. And he did lead us to 9 wins last year. But I?d we can average 175 yards a game on the ground and 250 per game in the air on 20 of 30 passing and win 9 or 10 games in his 4th year, I?ll be ecstatic. And if we get 25 of those plus yards from our QB tucking and running 4 or 5 times to pick up first downs, even better.

We need a QB to average 250 a game with 2 or 3 TDs and less than 1 int. We need a RB to average 90 a game, another ran to average 30 a game and 2 WR to combine for 30 a game and our QB to get 25 a game. That will keep the best College Defenses in College Football on their heels and guessing. Should get us 9 regular season wins.

[BuckyIsAB****]

They ran Cover 1 because there was no fear they may need over the top help. I do agree with you he was coached what to do though. It seemed like most of our plays if the primary guy wasn't open it was either a coverage sack or a swing out to the back who would get blown up. In 2021 I felt Will worked through his progressions way more than last year. Now that could've had a lot to do with having Polk as the safety valve instead of Marks or Johnson. Always knowing you had 4 to 6 yards allowed you to play a little more aggressive.

Bc Polk could get open on a vertical or retrace. We did not have that in 22.

Illinois ran more cover 1 than anybody in the nation. We just finally decided we were going to run trap and they had no answer for it. We are about to see a lot more cover 1 but not a 6 man box that the air raid created. We are about to see 7 man box or 6 1/2 cover 1

[KB21]

https://www.si.com/college/mississippistate/football/cody-leach-mike-leach-son-air-raid-coach-mississippi-state-football?fbclid=IwAR1cNmp--wQV0A036m-9lbTIps2_X4iiF_rPl1FEtgT4A62Cukg9b_EqQn4&mibextid=ykz3hl

?"We have these five guys and that their main goal is to be as fast as possible and get to grass, get to to space as fast as possible. I like that idea and I want to carry it forward because his offense has been so successful for so long. It has revolutionized the game of football."?

[BrunswickDawg]

Losing Polk hurt but I think Cross was probably a bigger deal as far as how Rogers played. Just a guess on my part though.

Cross was a talent no doubt - but I think the overall line was more competent in '22 than in '21. It gave up less sacks and fewer TFLs.
Will knew Cross had his back in '21, but also knew that our RT didn't have his front.

[Johnson85]

Cross was a talent no doubt - but I think the overall line was more competent in '22 than in '21. It gave up less sacks and fewer TFLs.
Will knew Cross had his back in '21, but also knew that our RT didn't have his front.

That's probably true but I am guessing that getting hit fewer times but having more of them come from the blindside still gets in a QB's head more than having his blind side as protected as a QB can have it but having to deal with more pressure that he can see coming.

[BlackSailsDawg]

If you mean that 5 yards off the line open space.

I just watched our OC say in post practice that Rogers has to take the short stuff because that's what the defense is giving. How is that any different?

[bulldawg28]

I just watched our OC say in post practice that Rogers has to take the short stuff because that's what the defense is giving. How is that any different?

Will is trying to show off his arm

[msu15]

Yeah the best passer in the history of our school.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Literally pick any game film you want from Will Rogers' entire career and put it up with the same from 2015 Dak and Will doesn't even compare. Gosh you are either dumb or just flat out have a weird crush on Will.

[Cooterpoot]

I just watched our OC say in post practice that Rogers has to take the short stuff because that's what the defense is giving. How is that any different?

Because a huge chunk of our offense was a dump off to a RB fir little gain or no gain or a loss. It was ridiculous the number of short passes that outdated system utilized. It was like watching paint dry.

[BuckyIsAB****]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Literally pick any game film you want from Will Rogers' entire career and put it up with the same from 2015 Dak and Will doesn't even compare. Gosh you are either dumb or just flat out have a weird crush on Will.

Dak would have never ever ever played in the air raid. Ever. A lot of our fans were ready to cut Dak after his first spring game. Will never has turned the ball over at the rate Dak did.

Is Dak better? Yes. Is he a better college passer? Debatable.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Because a huge chunk of our offense was a dump off to a RB fir little gain or no gain or a loss. It was ridiculous the number of short passes that outdated system utilized. It was like watching paint dry.

But what happens we had the ball off on a RPO this year for a yard and a half

[RiverCityDawg]

Dak would have never ever ever played in the air raid. Ever. A lot of our fans were ready to cut Dak after his first spring game. Will never has turned the ball over at the rate Dak did.

Is Dak better? Yes. Is he a better college passer? Debatable.

Bucky, I've defended Rogers probably second most to you and I do think he's a better pure passer than Dak was in college, but did you miss Dak's senior year? He was 29/5 with 3800 and 66%. He absolutely could have played in the air raid.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Because a huge chunk of our offense was a dump off to a RB fir little gain or no gain or a loss. It was ridiculous the number of short passes that outdated system utilized. It was like watching paint dry.


Not remotely based in Reality

[BlackSailsDawg]

Dak would have never ever ever played in the air raid. Ever. A lot of our fans were ready to cut Dak after his first spring game. Will never has turned the ball over at the rate Dak did.

Is Dak better? Yes. Is he a better college passer? Debatable.



I have always thought that it's hard to compare th 2 styles. Dak is by far the better runner. But he is not the better passer. Does that mean Dak would have played in the Air Raid? No. Most teams were recruiting him as a TE. Leach would not have offer him. In fact, he only had 2 offers.

[Jarius]

Dak as a senior was a much better passer than anyone we have ever had and it’s not remotely close. This is a ridiculous argument.

[BeardoMSU]

Dak would have never ever ever played in the air raid. Ever. A lot of our fans were ready to cut Dak after his first spring game. Will never has turned the ball over at the rate Dak did.

Is Dak better? Yes. Is he a better college passer? Debatable.

Dude...

[BuckyIsAB****]

Before some of yall wet the bed, no one is saying Dak wasn?t a better player. I would not take Dak to run the air raid over Will. That would be stupid. I would not take Will to run ******* offense over Dak. Will in 2021 and 22 is pretty comparable to Daks passing numbers in 2015. Dak was obviously a better runner. The best QBs in the history of the school have played here since 2013. Minus the Moorhead years

[BuckyIsAB****]

Everyone on this board better hope and pray we can run the ball. If not Barbay will not be here long.

When they said they were keeping parts of the air raid, they lied. We needed to adjust we will find out if we adjusted too much

[Pancho]

Oh, I bet that will be watched very closely.

[RockyDog]

Everyone on this board better hope and pray we can run the ball. If not Barbay will not be here long.

When they said they were keeping parts of the air raid, they lied. We needed to adjust we will find out if we adjusted too much

So our backs and linemen are just going to forget how rushing the ball works? We ran for 1000 yards with basically one play and zero creativity. You and KB seem to act like football knowledge left the MSU campus when Leach passed.

[Jarius]

Before some of yall wet the bed, no one is saying Dak wasn?t a better player. I would not take Dak to run the air raid over Will. That would be stupid. I would not take Will to run ******* offense over Dak. Will in 2021 and 22 is pretty comparable to Daks passing numbers in 2015. Dak was obviously a better runner. The best QBs in the history of the school have played here since 2013. Minus the Moorhead years

Will Rogers threw the ball 133 more times last year than Dak did in 2015. Their numbers were nowhere near the same when you take that in consideration. Dak in 2015 was by far the best passer we have ever seen here.

[Cowbell]

Everyone on this board better hope and pray we can run the ball. If not Barbay will not be here long.

When they said they were keeping parts of the air raid, they lied. We needed to adjust we will find out if we adjusted too much

If we can't run the ball, then we aren't going to be good so it's a moot point. Why are you always coming on here freaking out when you get a negative practice report. We hired someone to run his on offense.

[parabrave]

Will Rogers threw the ball 133 more times last year than Dak did in 2015. Their numbers were nowhere near the same when you take that in consideration. Dak in 2015 was by far the best passer we have ever seen here.

And his receiver Corps was not that great in 2015. He had Ross and that was about it. Bear and Jrob didn't come back.

[RiverCityDawg]

And his receiver Corps was not that great in 2015. He had Ross and that was about it. Bear and Jrob didn't come back.

You're confused... In 2015 we had Bear, Fred Ross, and Fred Brown. All three of those guys are better than any receiver we had last year.

Plus the 2015 passing offense was set up to succeed since Dak was known as a running threat and teams had to devote numbers to the box. Didn't have that for Will in the air raid, in large part by Leach's choice.

[KB21]

So our backs and linemen are just going to forget how rushing the ball works? We ran for 1000 yards with basically one play and zero creativity. You and KB seem to act like football knowledge left the MSU campus when Leach passed.

It has from an offensive standpoint.

[Cowbell]

It has from an offensive standpoint.

How would you know this when we haven't played one game.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Damn guys nobody is freaking out. The offensive knowledge whatever that means has not left campus. All I was saying was there is no resemblance of the air raid left. I bet we go 10 personnel maybe 2 or 3 percent of our snaps this year

[KB21]

How would you know this when we haven't played one game.

His heavy emphasis on running the ball is one reason. His offensive influences do not scream knowledgeable either. I mean, this is a guy who started his coaching career in Texas, and he does not consider Mike Leach as a heavy influence on his offensive philosophy.

[Todd4State]

Damn guys nobody is freaking out. The offensive knowledge whatever that means has not left campus. All I was saying was there is no resemblance of the air raid left. I bet we go 10 personnel maybe 2 or 3 percent of our snaps this year

"Best 11"*************

[Todd4State]

His heavy emphasis on running the ball is one reason. His offensive influences do not scream knowledgeable either. I mean, this is a guy who started his coaching career in Texas, and he does not consider Mike Leach as a heavy influence on his offensive philosophy.

I don't see a lot of Appalachian State fans upset that he's gone.

He'll probably have some success with Leach's players and then become predictable and boring when they leave.

[BlackSailsDawg]

So our backs and linemen are just going to forget how rushing the ball works? We ran for 1000 yards with basically one play and zero creativity. You and KB seem to act like football knowledge left the MSU campus when Leach passed.


Nobody is saying that. Why read more into than what is being said.

We were tooled and doing well with the AR and needed tweaks. We changed drastically to something we simply are not tooled for.

It will take time to gain the parts for this. We have a massive adjustment ahead.

[Todd4State]

Nobody is saying that. Why read more into than what is being said.

We were tooled and doing well with the AR and needed tweaks. We changed drastically to something we simply are not tooled for.

It will take time to gain the parts for this. We have a massive adjustment ahead.

Hence the reason we were begging Dillion Johnson to stay and are trying to get that Penn State running back to come in.

The biggest reason I wanted to stay with the Air Raid with some tweaks is to minimize adjustments for our players. And now I hear we're having a hard time adjusting to this new crap.

This is a lot more like when we hired Moorhead than people want to admit.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

How many points did the offense score against BAMA under Leach?

[Jarius]

Hence the reason we were begging Dillion Johnson to stay and are trying to get that Penn State running back to come in.

The biggest reason I wanted to stay with the Air Raid with some tweaks is to minimize adjustments for our players. And now I hear we're having a hard time adjusting to this new crap.

This is a lot more like when we hired Moorhead than people want to admit.

You have not heard we are having a hard time adjusting to this offense from anyone with any real knowledge of the situation.

[bulldawg28]

I don't see a lot of Appalachian State fans upset that he's gone.

He'll probably have some success with Leach's players and then become predictable and boring when they leave.

What Appalachian state fans?

[bulldawg28]

Damn guys nobody is freaking out. The offensive knowledge whatever that means has not left campus. All I was saying was there is no resemblance of the air raid left. I bet we go 10 personnel maybe 2 or 3 percent of our snaps this year

Good, the airaid was overdue to leave

[Johnson85]

Before some of yall wet the bed, no one is saying Dak wasn?t a better player. I would not take Dak to run the air raid over Will. That would be stupid. I would not take Will to run ******* offense over Dak. Will in 2021 and 22 is pretty comparable to Daks passing numbers in 2015. Dak was obviously a better runner. The best QBs in the history of the school have played here since 2013. Minus the Moorhead years

2015 Dak you take over Will even for the air raid. Dak was a good passer by that point and was doing it with a pretty mediocre line and not much of a running game besides himself to take pressure off.

Also, I don't think you need to exclude the Moorhead years when talking about the best QBs in the history of the school. Fitz was good. If he had kept a decent coach for his last year, I think he would have had a good jump in passing the way Dak did. Possibly could have gotten close to 2014 Dak level, just a little better running and not as good passing.

[KB21]

Hence the reason we were begging Dillion Johnson to stay and are trying to get that Penn State running back to come in.

The biggest reason I wanted to stay with the Air Raid with some tweaks is to minimize adjustments for our players. And now I hear we're having a hard time adjusting to this new crap.

This is a lot more like when we hired Moorhead than people want to admit.

The reason I wanted to keep the Raid is because it is the best offensive system, period.

[KB21]

https://twitter.com/crissy_froyd/status/1643757055281451008?s=20

[BlackSailsDawg]

Hence the reason we were begging Dillion Johnson to stay and are trying to get that Penn State running back to come in.

The biggest reason I wanted to stay with the Air Raid with some tweaks is to minimize adjustments for our players. And now I hear we're having a hard time adjusting to this new crap.

This is a lot more like when we hired Moorhead than people want to admit.

This is as a veteran team as we can GET on OFFENSE and the talk is not good.


My concern was that we were going to lose key players at QB an WR. A position that we have historically not recruited well enough to stretch the field. Fitz was a 51% passer. Our QBs prior to the AR was averaging less per pass than with AR.

2022-We won 9 an was within striking distance of 11 wins.
2021- Won 7 lost 3 games by a FG
2020- Won 4 lost 7
Bak up prior to:

2016- Won 5 games to gt to a bowl
2017- Won 9
2018- Won 8
2019- won 6.

We lacked QB and/or WRs due to the systems.


What we accomplished with Frshmen and SO in the AR should have been proof enough. What is coming out of camp is not what anybody should want to hear.

[BlackSailsDawg]

How many points did the offense score against BAMA under Leach?

Ah yes the fallacy of "But bama".

Moorhead.. 2 years. 7 points.

In Fitzs 3 years starting.. He averaged 8 points

[Leeshouldveflanked]

This is as a veteran team as we can GET on OFFENSE and the talk is not good.


My concern was that we were going to lose key players at QB an WR. A position that we have historically not recruited well enough to stretch the field. Fitz was a 51% passer. Our QBs prior to the AR was averaging less per pass than with AR.

2022-We won 9 an was within striking distance of 11 wins.
2021- Won 7 lost 33 games by a FG
2020- Won 4 lost 7
Bak up prior to:

2016- Won 5 games to gt to a bowl
2017- Won 9
2018- Won 8
2019- won 6.

We lacked QB and/or WRs due to the systems.


What we accomplished with Frshmen and SO in the AR should have been proof enough. What is coming out of camp is not what anybody should want to hear.
Our win total in 2022 had more to do with Arnetts Defense than Leachs Offense.

[BlackSailsDawg]

You have not heard we are having a hard time adjusting to this offense from anyone with any real knowledge of the situation.

You can hear it from the coaches. Rogers is being told to dump the ball off.

- TE Coach: “It’s hard to ask a guy who came over from d-line, or a bigger receiver who came into the room; or we’ve got Malik Ellis out there, a high school undersized o-lineman moving into the room? It’s hard to ask any of those guys to do everything."

[KB21]

You can hear it from the coaches. Rogers is being told to dump the ball off.

- TE Coach: “It’s hard to ask a guy who came over from d-line, or a bigger receiver who came into the room; or we’ve got Malik Ellis out there, a high school undersized o-lineman moving into the room? It’s hard to ask any of those guys to do everything."

Yep. It's very clear that we should be base 10 personnel, but this coaching staff doesn't know how to run an offense out of a 10 personnel base. Got to have that TE so "We can run that damn ball".

[BlackSailsDawg]

Our win total in 2022 had more to do with Arnetts Defense than Leachs Offense.

BS! The offense was scoring the points. The Defense has a job to do and it did it.

[BeardoMSU]

BS! The offense was scoring the points. The Defense has a job to do and it did it.

Jesus, dude...

[TrapGame]

You can hear it from the coaches. Rogers is being told to dump the ball off.

- TE Coach: “It’s hard to ask a guy who came over from d-line, or a bigger receiver who came into the room; or we’ve got Malik Ellis out there, a high school undersized o-lineman moving into the room? It’s hard to ask any of those guys to do everything."

Well ain't you Nostra - ****ing -damus.

Y'all don't know shit.

[R2Dawg]

BS! The offense was scoring the points. The Defense has a job to do and it did it.

On weak teams we sure did. Play a team with a pulse on D and it flipped. Same for all 3 years.

[R2Dawg]

Leach ain't coach anymore. When are some of yall going to support the new coach?

The past is gone. Time to move on.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

2022 NCAA Total Offense Ranks
26 APP State
62 MSU

[DawgFromOxford]

This is as a veteran team as we can GET on OFFENSE and the talk is not good.

What we accomplished with Frshmen and SO in the AR should have been proof enough. What is coming out of camp is not what anybody should want to hear.

Please enlighten us on what is coming out of camp

[TrapGame]

Please enlighten us on what is coming out of camp

It's all wishful thinking from the Haters. They are adamant that our players can't possibly run anything but the air raid.

[Really Clark?]

Please enlighten us on what is coming out of camp

Exactly what is expected and nothing really concerning. The defense is a good bit ahead of the offense as it should be. The offense is executing well in parts, average in areas and poorly in parts. Our running blocking, RB's and Wright are doing well and ahead of schedule. TE's are struggling but we also don't have 2 main contributors yet, WR's I think are looking very good at times but is still in a learning curve but have won on some big plays too, Will looks good and hitting down field some as well. Accuracy numbers are good for Will still but our pass game is not all the way there yet.

[Jarius]

You can hear it from the coaches. Rogers is being told to dump the ball off.

- TE Coach: ?It?s hard to ask a guy who came over from d-line, or a bigger receiver who came into the room; or we?ve got Malik Ellis out there, a high school undersized o-lineman moving into the room? It?s hard to ask any of those guys to do everything."

Our top 2 tight ends (both seniors who are not going to take long to adjust to this offense) are not even going through spring practice. People who are actually attending practice are saying the offense looks fine, much to the chagrin of a couple of morons on here.

[Jarius]

Ah yes the fallacy of "But bama".

Moorhead.. 2 years. 7 points.

In Fitzs 3 years starting.. He averaged 8 points

Well I guess it's a good thing we didn't hire Moorhead to run our offense this year, isn't it? Jesus.

[Jarius]

Exactly what is expected and nothing really concerning. The defense is a good bit ahead of the offense as it should be. The offense is executing well in parts, average in areas and poorly in parts. Our running blocking, RB's and Wright are doing well and ahead of schedule. TE's are struggling but we also don't have 2 main contributors yet, WR's I think are looking very good at times but is still in a learning curve but have won on some big plays too, Will looks good and hitting down field some as well. Accuracy numbers are good for Will still but our pass game is not all the way there yet.

The people actually watching practice (Paul Jones/Robbie/David/Steve in particular) have said multiple times that a lot of people on message boards are going to be eating crow when they actually see this offense becausa A.) they are clueless to what the offense actually is and B.) the offense looks pretty good. There are a couple of idiots on here that know an equipment manager or something and think they have sources and there are a couple of others who simply have an agenda.

[StarkVegasSteve]

The people actually watching practice (Paul Jones/Robbie/David/Steve in particular) have said multiple times that a lot of people on message boards are going to be eating crow when they actually see this offense becausa A.) they are clueless to what the offense actually is and B.) the offense looks pretty good. There are a couple of idiots on here that know an equipment manager or something and think they have sources and there are a couple of others who simply have an agenda.

I won't say it looks good, but it's also not doom and gloom. As others stated, the two guys who are going to play TE for us this year are not even on campus yet. That makes a huge difference in this offense. Spivey and Goede will be the X factors in this offense. If they can show they can catch the ball consistently and make defenses respect them then we'll be fine. If they can't teams will stack 7 to 8 in the box and kill whoever has the football. It's the Air Raid with having to respect one more guy. Instead of only worrying if Will could make the throw fast enough you have to worry if you're going to lose a TE in the flat where he'll gain 6 yards instead of not having to worry about a dump off to Marks or Johnson for a loss of 3

[Really Clark?]

I won't say it looks good, but it's also not doom and gloom. As others stated, the two guys who are going to play TE for us this year are not even on campus yet. That makes a huge difference in this offense. Spivey and Goede will be the X factors in this offense. If they can show they can catch the ball consistently and make defenses respect them then we'll be fine. If they can't teams will stack 7 to 8 in the box and kill whoever has the football.

I agree with a good bit of that but even with below average TE play, if they stack 7-8 in the box, Tulu and the our slots can kill defenses as well to get them out of it. But I agree that our TE's demanding some attention and this offense can go.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I agree with a good bit of that but even with below average TE play, if they stack 7-8 in the box, Tulu and the our slots can kill defenses as well to get them out of it. But I agree that our TE's demanding some attention and this offense can go.

Well and that goes back to can Will get the ball out fast enough. That's why some semblance of a TE sitting out there in the flat as a safety valve makes everything different. It's a little like when we had Polk. We don't need you to be a game breaker with speed or the world's greatest route runner. We just need you there when Will is feeling pressure. That's what made our offense start clicking in 21. Will didn't feel pressure as much because he knew he had Polk.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Our offense under Leach scored on some decent to good defenses. Just as much as our offenses under Mullen did. Some of this is revisionist history. Leach would have 10000 percent done better vs ranked teams, already was. Both of them had their strengths and their issues. We needed to tweak our scheme. But I hope we didnt throw the baby out with the bath water

[BuckyIsAB****]

I am all for the new offense, I am rooting for the offensive staff 100 percent. All I have said is that when they told the kids we were going to get an air raid guy, they lied. When they told the fans in interviews and press conferences we would be stupid to abandon it, they lied. These are facts. There is a chance we could be trading one problem for another. And there is a chance we could do very well. The weakest position group is still WRs. We have to be able to separate or win on 3rd and 8. We are going to see much different looks than we have in 3 years.

I love Arnett. He deserves it and he is going to do well. He is one of us

[Todd4State]

I am all for the new offense, I am rooting for the offensive staff 100 percent. All I have said is that when they told the kids we were going to get an air raid guy, they lied. When they told the fans in interviews and press conferences we would be stupid to abandon it, they lied. These are facts. There is a chance we could be trading one problem for another. And there is a chance we could do very well. The weakest position group is still WRs. We have to be able to separate or win on 3rd and 8. We are going to see much different looks than we have in 3 years.

I love Arnett. He deserves it and he is going to do well. He is one of us

I suspect he probably tried to hire an Air Raid guy thinking that with us being Leach's last job that would entice people.

But no one wants to replace a legend. On top of that firing all of Leach's offensive staff so that boosters could get their friends on staff didn't help either.

[Todd4State]

You have not heard we are having a hard time adjusting to this offense from anyone with any real knowledge of the situation.

Ok.******

ARNETT: It?s still a work in progress. By no means are we a polished ready group. Offensive line is getting more comfortable in the run schemes, there?s communication that goes with that. I sit in the offensive line meetings, in part because they are the most enjoyable meetings. I don?t think the average person understands how technique-driven that position is?how pinpoint with details you have to be to execute the different schemes. I think Will Rogers is enjoying the mental challenge of what comes with running an offense like this. When you get multi-formational, it changes what the defense can do. The more condensed you are, the more the defense can hold looks longer, bring different pressure varieties. As a quarterback, those things can throw you for a loop.

[Todd4State]

Our win total in 2022 had more to do with Arnetts Defense than Leachs Offense.

Good news then. We hired a guy whose signature win last year was by his admission allowing the defense to win the game for them.

[Cowbell]

I suspect he probably tried to hire an Air Raid guy thinking that with us being Leach's last job that would entice people.

But no one wants to replace a legend. On top of that firing all of Leach's offensive staff so that boosters could get their friends on staff didn't help either.

Well you suspect wrong....

And CZA ain't hiring anybody to cater to boosters.... so you can quit spreading that assumption.

[Todd4State]

Well you suspect wrong....

And CZA ain't hiring anybody to cater to boosters.... so you can quit spreading that assumption.

Interesting that most of his staff just so coincidentally had ties to MSU or Starkville and he just so happened to agree that they were all the best guys for the job.

[BlackSailsDawg]

I don't really care for the over the top emotional misrepresentation of what posters are saying.

I have not seen one poster say they hope this offense will fail. Nor that they are not behind the staff.

Just over the top emotional responses.

[Really Clark?]

Ok.******

ARNETT: It?s still a work in progress. By no means are we a polished ready group. Offensive line is getting more comfortable in the run schemes, there?s communication that goes with that. I sit in the offensive line meetings, in part because they are the most enjoyable meetings. I don?t think the average person understands how technique-driven that position is?how pinpoint with details you have to be to execute the different schemes. I think Will Rogers is enjoying the mental challenge of what comes with running an offense like this. When you get multi-formational, it changes what the defense can do. The more condensed you are, the more the defense can hold looks longer, bring different pressure varieties. As a quarterback, those things can throw you for a loop.

I don't see anywhere in that quote that he thinks the offense is having a hard time adjusting. Just that it's a work in progress. I mean how many posters on here told us it took CML year 3 before his note card playbook offense took off. But now for some reason after one spring practice where the offense is still working through a change, certain posters are trying to insinuate they are having a hard time adjusting and want to create panic? Come on

[Really Clark?]

I don't really care for the over the top emotional misrepresentation of what posters are saying.

I have not seen one poster say they hope this offense will fail. Nor that they are not behind the staff.

Just over the top emotional responses.

There is one poster that hopes this offense fails and has repeatedly told us it will fail. There is more than one that have constantly questioned the coaches, hire of Arnett, his hire of assistants, etc. I don't think anyone has implicitly said they are not behind this staff, I agree with that but trying tear down what has happened, the direction we went, who we brought in, etc. gives you a damn good impression that they are not really behind the staff.

[RockyDog]

There is one poster that hopes this offense fails and has repeatedly told us it will fail. There is more than one that have constantly questioned the coaches, hire of Arnett, his hire of assistants, etc. I don't think anyone has implicitly said they are not behind this staff, I agree with that but trying tear down what has happened, the direction we went, who we brought in, etc. gives you a damn good impression that they are not really behind the staff.

Yep. Even with their responses now it?s still all backhanded shots ar Arnett and the new guys.

I?ve seen enough inept offense at MSU to last a lifetime. With the exception of one year of Fant, we didn?t have a real QB that could put up average passing yardage until Tyler Russell played. We went through almost a decade where we couldn?t even field a 2000 yard passer.

So I was ecstatic with the Leach hire. But after 3 years of seeing it for 12-13 games a season, it was not the most exciting brand of football. And we never came close to seeing the kind of offenses he fielded in his prime at Tech or Wazzou. I mean there was strong speculation that he may not have seen another season anyway if that Egg Bowl didn?t turn out the way it did. There was no guarantee things would have gotten better. He could have had 2 more years of Rogers. Then what. What if Parson or Sawyer didn?t pan out. There?s no guarantee with anything.

Keeping a gimmick offense without the mastermind was NEVER going to work. So whether it was an adapted AR or a new offense, things were going to change. Making up falsehoods and acting like Barbay doesn?t know what the hell he is doing does nothing to help MSU. It just shows how petty some of our fanbase is and is just another reason why we are where we are in the SEC.

[Leroy Jenkins]

Ok.******

ARNETT: It?s still a work in progress.

Says nearly every coach in America during spring practice...

[Jarius]

Ok.******

ARNETT: It?s still a work in progress. By no means are we a polished ready group. Offensive line is getting more comfortable in the run schemes, there?s communication that goes with that. I sit in the offensive line meetings, in part because they are the most enjoyable meetings. I don?t think the average person understands how technique-driven that position is?how pinpoint with details you have to be to execute the different schemes. I think Will Rogers is enjoying the mental challenge of what comes with running an offense like this. When you get multi-formational, it changes what the defense can do. The more condensed you are, the more the defense can hold looks longer, bring different pressure varieties. As a quarterback, those things can throw you for a loop.

You read this and the first thing that came to your mind was "they are struggling"? It's a new scheme. They look just like everyone in the country looks while installing a new scheme (and most that aren't). They are not struggling. Go look at Lane Kiffin's quotes in his first year at Ole Miss, right before they had an outstanding year on offense.

[Jarius]

Interesting that most of his staff just so coincidentally had ties to MSU or Starkville and he just so happened to agree that they were all the best guys for the job.

When your philosophy is to recruit within a 250 mile radius of campus, you're going to hire guys with ties to the area.

[BrunswickDawg]

Yep. Even with their responses now it?s still all backhanded shots ar Arnett and the new guys.

I?ve seen enough inept offense at MSU to last a lifetime. With the exception of one year of Fant, we didn?t have a real QB that could put up average passing yardage until Tyler Russell played. We went through almost a decade where we couldn?t even field a 2000 yard passer.

So I was ecstatic with the Leach hire. But after 3 years of seeing it for 12-13 games a season, it was not the most exciting brand of football. And we never came close to seeing the kind of offenses he fielded in his prime at Tech or Wazzou. I mean there was strong speculation that he may not have seen another season anyway if that Egg Bowl didn?t turn out the way it did. There was no guarantee things would have gotten better. He could have had 2 more years of Rogers. Then what. What if Parson or Sawyer didn?t pan out. There?s no guarantee with anything.

Keeping a gimmick offense without the mastermind was NEVER going to work. So whether it was an adapted AR or a new offense, things were going to change. Making up falsehoods and acting like Barbay doesn?t know what the hell he is doing does nothing to help MSU. It just shows how petty some of our fanbase is and is just another reason why we are where we are in the SEC.

^^^^^^

[StarkVegasSteve]

No one is hoping we fail, except KB. We all want what's best for Mississippi State. But it's valid to voice some of the concerns that people are having. The offense doesn't look good. That's coming from people who have watched practice and not sunshine pumping media or coaches trying to spin. That doesn't mean we're going to suck or that they're saying this offense is awful. It's a completely new system from what they were running. It's not the Air Raid and it's not close to it. It's going to take time and you also have to remember the two guys that will actually play TE for us are not on campus. We also have to get Will acclimated to this offense. He's not very comfortable right now with it. Again, not shocking, he's been in the Air Raid since middle school and now you're asking him to run a completely different scheme, closer to what Moorhead ran.

Now on to the coaches, some of these guys were hired because boosters and a certain staff member pushed for them. They don't have recruiting ties to the area. They just happen to be from here. It doesn't mean they won't end up being good recruiters, but they are not right now. We had the same concerns about Leach and Co. when they took over, or at least I did. Bumphis is not a good recruiter right now. Maybe that changes. Friend is not a good recruiter right now. Maybe that changes. David Turner was a great recruiter 7 years ago. Not right now. Maybe he gets that back. Our best recruiters on staff are unquestionably Jason Washington, Darcell McBath, and Matt Brock. Greg Knox is going to be a good recruiter for us in time. Greg and Tony are going to have to do A LOT of the heavy lifting for this in state class on offense. That's why we're behind.

Again, I'm rooting for Arnett because I think he can be a good coach. But to bury your head in the sand and say things are fine right now is just asinine. There's legitimate questions and there will continue to be until Sept. 16th when that ball is put in the air against LSU.

[Todd4State]

No one is hoping we fail, except KB. We all want what's best for Mississippi State. But it's valid to voice some of the concerns that people are having. The offense doesn't look good. That's coming from people who have watched practice and not sunshine pumping media or coaches trying to spin. That doesn't mean we're going to suck or that they're saying this offense is awful. It's a completely new system from what they were running. It's not the Air Raid and it's not close to it. It's going to take time and you also have to remember the two guys that will actually play TE for us are not on campus. We also have to get Will acclimated to this offense. He's not very comfortable right now with it. Again, not shocking, he's been in the Air Raid since middle school and now you're asking him to run a completely different scheme, closer to what Moorhead ran.

Now on to the coaches, some of these guys were hired because boosters and a certain staff member pushed for them. They don't have recruiting ties to the area. They just happen to be from here. It doesn't mean they won't end up being good recruiters, but they are not right now. We had the same concerns about Leach and Co. when they took over, or at least I did. Bumphis is not a good recruiter right now. Maybe that changes. Friend is not a good recruiter right now. Maybe that changes. David Turner was a great recruiter 7 years ago. Not right now. Maybe he gets that back. Our best recruiters on staff are unquestionably Jason Washington, Darcell McBath, and Matt Brock. Greg Knox is going to be a good recruiter for us in time. Greg and Tony are going to have to do A LOT of the heavy lifting for this in state class on offense. That's why we're behind.

Again, I'm rooting for Arnett because I think he can be a good coach. But to bury your head in the sand and say things are fine right now is just asinine. There's legitimate questions and there will continue to be until Sept. 16th when that ball is put in the air against LSU.

All of this.

[Todd4State]

You read this and the first thing that came to your mind was "they are struggling"? It's a new scheme. They look just like everyone in the country looks while installing a new scheme (and most that aren't). They are not struggling. Go look at Lane Kiffin's quotes in his first year at Ole Miss, right before they had an outstanding year on offense.

Which was avoidable by going to something much more similar. But it's too late for that.

We've already made this mistake before. We know how this is going to go whether you want to admit it or not.

Maybe Will can do enough to overcome it. He has struggled with blitzes and making quick decisions on deep patterns. That could be a major issue in this offense. He's going to be asked to throw it deep more and will have to adjust to more blitzes and looks. The offensive line is going to have even more of an adjustment. Having an easier schedule will help. I'm guessing a potential 11 win season is going to end up more like 8-4 though. And that's what frustrates me more than anything. When we build a team we have to strike when the iron is hot. The last two times we had coaching and major scheme changes on offense in 2019 and 2023.

But at least you don't have to bitch about Leach anymore. Except when you inevitably blame him for leaving us in bad shape when this doesn't work out any better.

[RiverCityDawg]

No one is hoping we fail, except KB. We all want what's best for Mississippi State. But it's valid to voice some of the concerns that people are having. The offense doesn't look good. That's coming from people who have watched practice and not sunshine pumping media or coaches trying to spin. That doesn't mean we're going to suck or that they're saying this offense is awful. It's a completely new system from what they were running. It's not the Air Raid and it's not close to it. It's going to take time and you also have to remember the two guys that will actually play TE for us are not on campus. We also have to get Will acclimated to this offense. He's not very comfortable right now with it. Again, not shocking, he's been in the Air Raid since middle school and now you're asking him to run a completely different scheme, closer to what Moorhead ran.

Now on to the coaches, some of these guys were hired because boosters and a certain staff member pushed for them. They don't have recruiting ties to the area. They just happen to be from here. It doesn't mean they won't end up being good recruiters, but they are not right now. We had the same concerns about Leach and Co. when they took over, or at least I did. Bumphis is not a good recruiter right now. Maybe that changes. Friend is not a good recruiter right now. Maybe that changes. David Turner was a great recruiter 7 years ago. Not right now. Maybe he gets that back. Our best recruiters on staff are unquestionably Jason Washington, Darcell McBath, and Matt Brock. Greg Knox is going to be a good recruiter for us in time. Greg and Tony are going to have to do A LOT of the heavy lifting for this in state class on offense. That's why we're behind.

Again, I'm rooting for Arnett because I think he can be a good coach. But to bury your head in the sand and say things are fine right now is just asinine. There's legitimate questions and there will continue to be until Sept. 16th when that ball is put in the air against LSU.

This all seems fair.

I think we have to get away from this idea that either the Air Raid sucked so this will be better or the Air Raid was good so what we're moving to is going to suck.

The truth is going to be nuanced in the middle and what's true today might now be true when the season get's here. Or it might be. Same applies on the recruiting trail. I think concerns are fair but there's also some reasons to be optimistic. Both can be true, and no one really knows how it's ultimately going to work out, including the coaches.

[Jarius]

No one is hoping we fail, except KB. We all want what's best for Mississippi State. But it's valid to voice some of the concerns that people are having. The offense doesn't look good. That's coming from people who have watched practice and not sunshine pumping media or coaches trying to spin. That doesn't mean we're going to suck or that they're saying this offense is awful. It's a completely new system from what they were running. It's not the Air Raid and it's not close to it. It's going to take time and you also have to remember the two guys that will actually play TE for us are not on campus. We also have to get Will acclimated to this offense. He's not very comfortable right now with it. Again, not shocking, he's been in the Air Raid since middle school and now you're asking him to run a completely different scheme, closer to what Moorhead ran.

Now on to the coaches, some of these guys were hired because boosters and a certain staff member pushed for them. They don't have recruiting ties to the area. They just happen to be from here. It doesn't mean they won't end up being good recruiters, but they are not right now. We had the same concerns about Leach and Co. when they took over, or at least I did. Bumphis is not a good recruiter right now. Maybe that changes. Friend is not a good recruiter right now. Maybe that changes. David Turner was a great recruiter 7 years ago. Not right now. Maybe he gets that back. Our best recruiters on staff are unquestionably Jason Washington, Darcell McBath, and Matt Brock. Greg Knox is going to be a good recruiter for us in time. Greg and Tony are going to have to do A LOT of the heavy lifting for this in state class on offense. That's why we're behind.

Again, I'm rooting for Arnett because I think he can be a good coach. But to bury your head in the sand and say things are fine right now is just asinine. There's legitimate questions and there will continue to be until Sept. 16th when that ball is put in the air against LSU.

Will Friend is a good recruiter right now. Our recruiting issues are almost 100 % NIL related. Friend is one of the best position coaching hires (non coordinators) we have ever made here

[Jarius]

Which was avoidable by going to something much more similar. But it's too late for that.

We've already made this mistake before. We know how this is going to go whether you want to admit it or not.

Maybe Will can do enough to overcome it. He has struggled with blitzes and making quick decisions on deep patterns. That could be a major issue in this offense. He's going to be asked to throw it deep more and will have to adjust to more blitzes and looks. The offensive line is going to have even more of an adjustment. Having an easier schedule will help. I'm guessing a potential 11 win season is going to end up more like 8-4 though. And that's what frustrates me more than anything. When we build a team we have to strike when the iron is hot. The last two times we had coaching and major scheme changes on offense in 2019 and 2023.

But at least you don't have to bitch about Leach anymore. Except when you inevitably blame him for leaving us in bad shape when this doesn't work out any better.

Will wasn't playing well in the air raid, so to act lik changing offenses is going to be the reason we may struggle on offense is asinine. He's going to get a lot more man coverage which is what he thrived in during the air raid. It's always much easier
to throw with a cleaner picture of what's in front of you than all of those zone looks he was getting. If he can't adjust to different coverages as a 4th year player in CFB that will be on him, not the scheme change. Quarterbacks all over the country do just fine in similar situation. At some point, the blame goes on the guy who hasn't been getting it done and not both schemes he was in. I bitched about Leach's offense often, because it sucked. Leach the HC was really good. He frustrated me because he refused to adapt offensively, which held us back. The talent is there on offense for us to win 8-10 games this year. If we don't do that it's on Arnett, not Leach.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Will Friend is a good recruiter right now. Our recruiting issues are almost 100 % NIL related. Friend is one of the best position coaching hires (non coordinators) we have ever made here

Yea.....gonna call bs on that one. Will is a B hire. We could've done better and we could've done worse. He's not in the top 10 of best position coaches we've ever hired. Again, he may end up being that but some people need to move past the "because he's from Mississippi he's a great coach" stuff. If you bring Will a 5 star then he won't ruin him, but he's not going to be like Hevesy. We're not going to be able to bring him a two star and Hevesy will make him a 4 star. Friend is going to be like Marcus Johnson position coach wise. Solid and he probably won't ruin any of our players. I doubt he elevates any of them.

[Dawgface]

What happened to c34? I would love to know where he thinks we are with the new offense.

[Jarius]

Yea.....gonna call bs on that one. Will is a B hire. We could've done better and we could've done worse. He's not in the top 10 of best position coaches we've ever hired. Again, he may end up being that but some people need to move past the "because he's from Mississippi he's a great coach" stuff. If you bring Will a 5 star then he won't ruin him, but he's not going to be like Hevesy. We're not going to be able to bring him a two star and Hevesy will make him a 4 star. Friend is going to be like Marcus Johnson position coach wise. Solid and he probably won't ruin any of our players. I doubt he elevates any of them.

Will Friend is considered one of the best offensive line coaches in the country by people who know what they are talking about. You are severely misinformed.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Will Friend is considered one of the best offensive line coaches in the country by people who know what they are talking about. You are severely misinformed.

Yea he was in like 2014-2017. This is 2023. He's not anymore. Listen you have your opinion, I don't know how you formulated other than just blind faith or Dave Bartoo, but no one that follows the game closely considers Will Friend and elite coach anymore. Hell Cole Cubelic railed on him the last two years about how bad of an O Line coach he was. And Cole is an Auburn homer. As I said, B hire. We could've done better, but we could've done worse.

[Goldendawg]

No one is hoping we fail, except KB. We all want what's best for Mississippi State. But it's valid to voice some of the concerns that people are having. The offense doesn't look good. That's coming from people who have watched practice and not sunshine pumping media or coaches trying to spin. That doesn't mean we're going to suck or that they're saying this offense is awful. It's a completely new system from what they were running. It's not the Air Raid and it's not close to it. It's going to take time and you also have to remember the two guys that will actually play TE for us are not on campus. We also have to get Will acclimated to this offense. He's not very comfortable right now with it. Again, not shocking, he's been in the Air Raid since middle school and now you're asking him to run a completely different scheme, closer to what Moorhead ran.

Now on to the coaches, some of these guys were hired because boosters and a certain staff member pushed for them. They don't have recruiting ties to the area. They just happen to be from here. It doesn't mean they won't end up being good recruiters, but they are not right now. We had the same concerns about Leach and Co. when they took over, or at least I did. Bumphis is not a good recruiter right now. Maybe that changes. Friend is not a good recruiter right now. Maybe that changes. David Turner was a great recruiter 7 years ago. Not right now. Maybe he gets that back. Our best recruiters on staff are unquestionably Jason Washington, Darcell McBath, and Matt Brock. Greg Knox is going to be a good recruiter for us in time. Greg and Tony are going to have to do A LOT of the heavy lifting for this in state class on offense. That's why we're behind.

Again, I'm rooting for Arnett because I think he can be a good coach. But to bury your head in the sand and say things are fine right now is just asinine. There's legitimate questions and there will continue to be until Sept. 16th when that ball is put in the air against LSU.

Close to JoMo's offense? Please no, on waiting to decide on the play and then waiting until 5 or so seconds left on the play clock to signal it in!****. Hail State!

[StarkVegasSteve]

Close to JoMo's offense? Please no, on waiting to decide on the play and then waiting until 5 or so seconds left on the play clock to signal it in!****. Hail State!

Personnel wise we're close to JoeMo. Should've clarified that. We're not going to be RPO based.

[Jarius]

Yea he was in like 2014-2017. This is 2023. He's not anymore. Listen you have your opinion, I don't know how you formulated other than just blind faith or Dave Bartoo, but no one that follows the game closely considers Will Friend and elite coach anymore. Hell Cole Cubelic railed on him the last two years about how bad of an O Line coach he was. And Cole is an Auburn homer. As I said, B hire. We could've done better, but we could've done worse.

Yea you're right. Dave Bartoo and Tom Luginbill don't know what they are talking about. They just called him one of the premier OL coaches in the country the other day. You're wrong. He has been hired by 5 SEC schools for a reason. Your boy hevesy is at home bitching at his wife and kids while Friend continues to get SEC jobs for a reason. People within coaching circles think he's an exceptional OL coach. What he did at Auburn on the OL with a 4TH STRING QUARTERBACK playing last year was nothing short of a miracle.

[TrapGame]

Yea you're right. Dave Bartoo and Tom Luginbill don't know what they are talking about. They just called him one of the premier OL coaches in the country the other day. You're wrong. He has been hired by 5 SEC schools for a reason. Your boy hevesy is at home bitching at his wife and kids while Friend continues to get SEC jobs for a reason. People within coaching circles think he's an exceptional OL coach. What he did at Auburn on the OL with a 4TH STRING QUARTERBACK playing last year was nothing short of a miracle.

And he was calling all the plays too as interim OC. Friend is a damn good coach.

[StarkVegasSteve]

And he was calling all the plays too as interim OC. Friend is a damn good coach.

Ok then why is our O Line struggling to pick up the schemes and why is our O Line recruiting is in the shit hole? This is what I'm talking about. You can't just say they're good coaches and completely disregard that we have issues right now. The talk was Friend is this amazing recruiter with all these connections....we're going to have to take a kid from Houston High who's a project, a kid from Winona who may never see the field, and probably a kid from Houston Co. (GA) who's a project. That's not "cleaning up". Then the goalposts have been moved to well he's a great position coach. Well our O Line is a complete mess right now. They're struggling picking up the schemes and can't seem to find a consistent five guys.

Do I think Friend is a good coach, yes. We could've done worse. Do I think the recruiting will pick up? I'm hopeful. But again, some are burying their head in the sand and just acting like this is nothing. It's a problem when you look like you don't have a clue in the spring. Which we have looked like more times than not. It's a problem when you can't even get in the game with a guy like Jimothy Lewis. And that has almost nothing to do with NIL. It has more to do with our O Line coach not making him feel like a priority.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Ok then why is our O Line struggling to pick up the schemes and why is our O Line recruiting is in the shit hole? This is what I'm talking about. You can't just say they're good coaches and completely disregard that we have issues right now. The talk was Friend is this amazing recruiter with all these connections....we're going to have to take a kid from Houston High who's a project, a kid from Winona who may never see the field, and probably a kid from Houston Co. (GA) who's a project. That's not "cleaning up". Then the goalposts have been moved to well he's a great position coach. Well our O Line is a complete mess right now. They're struggling picking up the schemes and can't seem to find a consistent five guys.

Do I think Friend is a good coach, yes. We could've done worse. Do I think the recruiting will pick up? I'm hopeful. But again, some are burying their head in the sand and just acting like this is nothing. It's a problem when you look like you don't have a clue in the spring. Which we have looked like more times than not. It's a problem when you can't even get in the game with a guy like Jimothy Lewis. And that has almost nothing to do with NIL. It has more to do with our O Line coach not making him feel like a priority.


And this isn't an I hate the coaches I wanted the Air Raid rant. It's the fact that no one in the football building seems to have the direction on what the hell we're doing. We're 3 months in and the only thing we seem to have decided is that we're not Air Raid. We don't seem to have a recruiting strategy, we definitely don't have a recruiting budget, we're having problems picking up and executing the offense, and we got players out for "personal reasons" left and damn right. Maybe my worry is unwarranted, but I'm beginning to believe it's not and nothing I see tomorrow is going to assuage any of that worry.

[BankerDog]

Will Friend is considered one of the best offensive line coaches in the country by people who know what they are talking about. You are severely misinformed.

Auburn fans were excited to see him go. You?re listening to the wrong people who?s job is to sell clicks

[TrapGame]

And this isn't an I hate the coaches I wanted the Air Raid rant. It's the fact that no one in the football building seems to have the direction on what the hell we're doing. We're 3 months in and the only thing we seem to have decided is that we're not Air Raid. We don't seem to have a recruiting strategy, we definitely don't have a recruiting budget, we're having problems picking up and executing the offense, and we got players out for "personal reasons" left and damn right. Maybe my worry is unwarranted, but I'm beginning to believe it's not and nothing I see tomorrow is going to assuage any of that worry.

Can we at least play the first ****ing game of the season before commit mass suicide around here. Jesus.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Can we at least play the first ****ing game of the season before commit mass suicide around here. Jesus.

I'll be fine. There's enough vodka to power me through a shitty season. I'm just telling you that there's concern. The sunshine pumpers and the media won't tell you that but there is. Our coaches are concerned as well.

[RiverCityDawg]

I'll be fine. There's enough vodka to power me through a shitty season. I'm just telling you that there's concern. The sunshine pumpers and the media won't tell you that but there is. Our coaches are concerned as well.

He's another thing... If you had to list our best players, who would you say? Maybe Woody, Crumedy, Bookie, Jett, and Decam? Those are solid guys, but not elite. We also lost arguably our best DT, CB, safeties, WR, RB and LB. I hear people talk about the "talent" of this team should win 9+ games. I think the roster is solid, but by no means special and we're lacking top level playmakers unless some guys elevate their game.

[Goldendawg]

He's another thing... If you had to list our best players, who would you say? Maybe Woody, Crumedy, Bookie, Jett, and Decam? Those are solid guys, but not elite. We also lost arguably our best DT, CB, safeties, WR, RB and LB. I hear people talk about the "talent" of this team should win 9+ games. I think the roster is solid, but by no means special and we're lacking top level playmakers unless some guys elevate their game.

Coach Leath complained about the receiver room lacking anyone to step forward even to taking away their sideline folding chairs. There seemed to be a logjam of similar type players with a lack of separation from physical DB's. We have at least 12 slot players including a couple of walk ons on the spring roster. A couple are highly regarded Freshmen/JC who arrived in December. Add Wide outs and now TE's, I see a big portal move out after spring evaluations. We can no longer carry 20 or more receivers on the roster with a change on offense and the need to play the best and even upgrade in the future. Hail State!

[KB21]

I?m not sure why we have any receivers on the roster. All we want to do is run the damn ball.

[Jarius]

Ok then why is our O Line struggling to pick up the schemes and why is our O Line recruiting is in the shit hole? This is what I'm talking about. You can't just say they're good coaches and completely disregard that we have issues right now. The talk was Friend is this amazing recruiter with all these connections....we're going to have to take a kid from Houston High who's a project, a kid from Winona who may never see the field, and probably a kid from Houston Co. (GA) who's a project. That's not "cleaning up". Then the goalposts have been moved to well he's a great position coach. Well our O Line is a complete mess right now. They're struggling picking up the schemes and can't seem to find a consistent five guys.

Do I think Friend is a good coach, yes. We could've done worse. Do I think the recruiting will pick up? I'm hopeful. But again, some are burying their head in the sand and just acting like this is nothing. It's a problem when you look like you don't have a clue in the spring. Which we have looked like more times than not. It's a problem when you can't even get in the game with a guy like Jimothy Lewis. And that has almost nothing to do with NIL. It has more to do with our O Line coach not making him feel like a priority.

Our offensive line looks like every single offensive line in America that goes through a scheme change. The only difference is that ours is going against one of the most talented defenses in the best conference in America every day where everything is magnified. We look really sloppy in the spring of our first year of a new install with a group of guys that are now being asked to zone block after dropping back in pass pro 55 times a game. That’s not uncommon. We will be fine up front. We are 3 weeks into implementing a new offense and you act like we have to play a game next week. Your lack of football comprehension isn’t my problem. Anyone telling you that NIL isn’t our biggest issue with almost everyone we are missing on is lying to you. We are lacking in that department in a very big way. The biggest miss that is on this staff is the tailback from West Point. We have some guys that will be in the boat soon enough, but if our fans don’t step up in that department it doesn’t matter if Nick Saban and Kirby smart both come coach for us at the same time. The reality of our recruiting situation is that we are going to finish between 23-27 no matter who the coach is.

[Jarius]

Auburn fans were excited to see him go. You?re listening to the wrong people who?s job is to sell clicks

Auburn fans being too stupid to differentiate the difference between a bad head coach and a bad ol coach isn’t my problem. I will trust the people I talk to on our coaching staff and the people who grade OL coaches for a living over Tammy who calls into finebaum, but you are welcome to trust whoever you’d like.

[NCDawg]

Auburn fans were excited to see him go. You?re listening to the wrong people who?s job is to sell clicks

I never particularly cared for Friend since he turned us down and signed with Alabama in the 90's.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Well you suspect wrong....

And CZA ain't hiring anybody to cater to boosters.... so you can quit spreading that assumption.

Arnett had plenty of other voices give heavy input for the hires. May not be what we want to hear but it is true

[BuckyIsAB****]

No one is hoping we fail, except KB. We all want what's best for Mississippi State. But it's valid to voice some of the concerns that people are having. The offense doesn't look good. That's coming from people who have watched practice and not sunshine pumping media or coaches trying to spin. That doesn't mean we're going to suck or that they're saying this offense is awful. It's a completely new system from what they were running. It's not the Air Raid and it's not close to it. It's going to take time and you also have to remember the two guys that will actually play TE for us are not on campus. We also have to get Will acclimated to this offense. He's not very comfortable right now with it. Again, not shocking, he's been in the Air Raid since middle school and now you're asking him to run a completely different scheme, closer to what Moorhead ran.

Now on to the coaches, some of these guys were hired because boosters and a certain staff member pushed for them. They don't have recruiting ties to the area. They just happen to be from here. It doesn't mean they won't end up being good recruiters, but they are not right now. We had the same concerns about Leach and Co. when they took over, or at least I did. Bumphis is not a good recruiter right now. Maybe that changes. Friend is not a good recruiter right now. Maybe that changes. David Turner was a great recruiter 7 years ago. Not right now. Maybe he gets that back. Our best recruiters on staff are unquestionably Jason Washington, Darcell McBath, and Matt Brock. Greg Knox is going to be a good recruiter for us in time. Greg and Tony are going to have to do A LOT of the heavy lifting for this in state class on offense. That's why we're behind.

Again, I'm rooting for Arnett because I think he can be a good coach. But to bury your head in the sand and say things are fine right now is just asinine. There's legitimate questions and there will continue to be until Sept. 16th when that ball is put in the air against LSU.

Will has not ran air raid since middle school. Not trying to be that guy but just take my word for it. what he is doing now is similar to what he has done in HS. Moorhead offered and recruited him. He ran some air raid drop back and progression but it was a lot of h back and TE. Sometimes 2 TEs. You dont have to worry about him not understanding it

[bulldawg28]

Will has not ran air raid since middle school. Not trying to be that guy but just take my word for it. what he is doing now is similar to what he has done in HS. Moorhead offered and recruited him. He ran some air raid drop back and progression but it was a lot of h back and TE. Sometimes 2 TEs. You dont have to worry about him not understanding it

The problem is he runs a 4.9 in the SEC.

[BuckyIsAB****]

The problem is he runs a 4.9 in the SEC.

Good thing they don?t make you run 40s to win games. Idk what his time is, I know what his record is

[BuckyIsAB****]

Anyone that would ask him to be a primary ball carrier would be just stupid. That is an obvious statement. Wright can do that. And we should use him

[Cowbell]

Interesting that most of his staff just so coincidentally had ties to MSU or Starkville and he just so happened to agree that they were all the best guys for the job.

Because he wants to recruit the state and he wanted guys that would stick around

[StarkVegasSteve]

Because he wants to recruit the state and he wanted guys that would stick around

Well we are doing a really crappy job with that first part.

[Cowbell]

I?m not sure why we have any receivers on the roster. All we want to do is run the damn ball.

Because we don't have enough RBs yet. As soon as we fill the RB room, all the WRs can go....

[Cowbell]

Well we are doing a really crappy job with that first part.

Three months in? I mean what did you expect?

[StarkVegasSteve]

Three months in? I mean what did you expect?

I expected what was fed to us. This staff had so many connections and they were going to dominate in state. I knew it was false, and so far I am correct. I wish they would have just come out and said we hired these guys because they were the names that were given to Arnett by Brad Peterson and the boosters and not some bullshit reason like they were brought in to lock down the state.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I expected what was fed to us. This staff had so many connections and they were going to dominate in state. I knew it was false, and so far I am correct. I wish they would have just come out and said we hired these guys because they were the names that were given to Arnett by Brad Peterson and the boosters and not some bullshit reason like they were brought in to lock down the state.

Ding ding ding

[BeardoMSU]

I expected what was fed to us. This staff had so many connections and they were going to dominate in state. I knew it was false, and so far I am correct. I wish they would have just come out and said we hired these guys because they were the names that were given to Arnett by Brad Peterson and the boosters and not some bullshit reason like they were brought in to lock down the state.

Jesus... this thread could depress a bride on her wedding day...

[StarkVegasSteve]

Jesus... this thread could depress a bride on her wedding day...

I guess the truth is depressing sometimes. You know what they say, facts don't care about your feelings.

[Jarius]

I expected what was fed to us. This staff had so many connections and they were going to dominate in state. I knew it was false, and so far I am correct. I wish they would have just come out and said we hired these guys because they were the names that were given to Arnett by Brad Peterson and the boosters and not some bullshit reason like they were brought in to lock down the state.

The kids we are losing are going to out of state schools that have a huge NIL war chest. Our big boosters have to step up or the in state recruiters don’t matter. Money matters in 2023. That’s just about it, outside of a few. We have enough money to pluck a few guys but when we have a great in state class like we do this year the entire country is going to be in here offering kids a lot of money and we can’t match it. That’s the fact and it sucks but no one can talk a kid out of taking 3 times the money we can offer.

[BuckyIsAB****]

The kids we are losing are going to out of state schools that have a huge NIL war chest. Our big boosters have to step up or the in state recruiters don’t matter. Money matters in 2023. That’s just about it, outside of a few. We have enough money to pluck a few guys but when we have a great in state class like we do this year the entire country is going to be in here offering kids a lot of money and we can’t match it. That’s the fact and it sucks but no one can talk a kid out of taking 3 times the money we can offer.

Idk about all that but Brad Peterson 100 percent hired this staff. A good portion of it

[dawgday166]

Yea you're right. Dave Bartoo and Tom Luginbill don't know what they are talking about. They just called him one of the premier OL coaches in the country the other day. You're wrong. He has been hired by 5 SEC schools for a reason. Your boy hevesy is at home bitching at his wife and kids while Friend continues to get SEC jobs for a reason. People within coaching circles think he's an exceptional OL coach. What he did at Auburn on the OL with a 4TH STRING QUARTERBACK playing last year was nothing short of a miracle.

Dave Bartoo and Tom Luginbill are more celebrities than real astute football guys IMO. They no different than Rosie really and Bartoo's analytics for most part just pick the teams with the most 4 and 5* out of HS talent.

I haven't researched this much but I'll take Hev over Friend any day. Seems like both Kirby and Heupal let him go when they took over. Not a great endorsement there.

[Jarius]

Dave Bartoo and Tom Luginbill are more celebrities than real astute football guys IMO. They no different than Rosie really and Bartoo's analytics for most part just pick the teams with the most 4 and 5* out of HS talent.

I haven't researched this much but I'll take Hev over Friend any day. Seems like both Kirby and Heupal let him go when they took over. Not a great endorsement there.

Hevesy has not been an on the field coach for 2 years. If he was actually worth a shit he would have a real job. His deficiencies were masked by Dan Mullen’s superior offensive coaching skills. He isn’t coaching for a reason and it’s not because he wants a break. Dave Bartoo and Luginbill don’t have any ties to Mississippi State. They have no reason to pump up our coaches. Bartoo has routinely shit on some of our coaches and I’m sure Luginbill has as well because he has no reason not to.

[dawgday166]

Hevesy has not been an on the field coach for 2 years. If he was actually worth a shit he would have a real job. His deficiencies were masked by Dan Mullen?s superior offensive coaching skills. He isn?t coaching for a reason and it?s not because he wants a break. Dave Bartoo and Luginbill don?t have any ties to Mississippi State. They have no reason to pump up our coaches. Bartoo has routinely shit on some of our coaches and I?m sure Luginbill has as well because he has no reason not to.

I get that but he can coach. His recruiting and other stuff that comes along with him ain't too hot.

I've never thought Friend was that great myself. Hope I'm wrong on that.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Hevesy has not been an on the field coach for 2 years. If he was actually worth a shit he would have a real job. His deficiencies were masked by Dan Mullen’s superior offensive coaching skills. He isn’t coaching for a reason and it’s not because he wants a break. Dave Bartoo and Luginbill don’t have any ties to Mississippi State. They have no reason to pump up our coaches. Bartoo has routinely shit on some of our coaches and I’m sure Luginbill has as well because he has no reason not to.

John Hevesy took a line with a bunch of no star and two star talent and coached them to be four star talent. The reason he does not have a job is because he does not need the money. He is loyal to Dan. Also since you think Hevesy is not worth a shit guess who identified Dak and Josh Robinson. It would be the guy not worth a shit. But that is outside of your narrative so you conveniently left it out.

[maroonmania]

Hevesy has not been an on the field coach for 2 years. If he was actually worth a shit he would have a real job. His deficiencies were masked by Dan Mullen’s superior offensive coaching skills. He isn’t coaching for a reason and it’s not because he wants a break. Dave Bartoo and Luginbill don’t have any ties to Mississippi State. They have no reason to pump up our coaches. Bartoo has routinely shit on some of our coaches and I’m sure Luginbill has as well because he has no reason not to.

Exactly on Hevesy. He only got an OL coaching spot back at MSU because he was Mullen's buddy. He had already lost the OL coaching job under Urban at Florida.

[Turfdawg67]

John Hevesy took a line with a bunch of no star and two star talent and coached them to be four star talent. The reason he does not have a job is because he does not need the money. He is loyal to Dan. Also since you think Hevesy is not worth a shit guess who identified Dak and Josh Robinson. It would be the guy not worth a shit. But that is outside of your narrative so you conveniently left it out.

But, as you said earlier, that was 2014... this is 2023.

[Jarius]

John Hevesy took a line with a bunch of no star and two star talent and coached them to be four star talent. The reason he does not have a job is because he does not need the money. He is loyal to Dan. Also since you think Hevesy is not worth a shit guess who identified Dak and Josh Robinson. It would be the guy not worth a shit. But that is outside of your narrative so you conveniently left it out.

If he didn’t need the money he wouldn’t be a consultant for Georgia tech, getting paid. He’d be sitting on a beach. We had a year where we had to convert a defensive tackle to play offensive tackle and another year where we had to convert a tight end to left tackle, all because of his inability to recruit. He was not bad at development but he was a horrible recruiter.

[StarkVegasSteve]

If he didn’t need the money he wouldn’t be a consultant for Georgia tech, getting paid. He’d be sitting on a beach. We had a year where we had to convert a defensive tackle to play offensive tackle and another year where we had to convert a tight end to left tackle, all because of his inability to recruit. He was not bad at development but he was a horrible recruiter.

Oh you won't get any argument from me on his recruiting ability. It was not good. He's not really a people person so recruiting is difficult for him. But if he got them, he was going to develop them.