Lemonis was never prepared for this

[BHildreth3]

Personally, I think Cohen took too much of Lemon's best friend advice. McDonnell wanted to get his good ol friend a big gig job. We gave that to him. He wasn't at the level that STATE needs. Take a look at his record prior to joining:

2015 Indiana 35-24 12-10 6th NCAA Regional
2016 Indiana 32-24 15-9 T-3rd
2017 Indiana 34-24-2 14-9-1 6th NCAA Regional
2018 Indiana 40-19 14-9 5th NCAA Regional

Honestly? I don't think he deserved it. It's showing. He's average at best and

WE DESERVE THE BEST of the BEST.

Thoughts...

[viverlibre]

I think your theory is being proven by results.

[Quaoarsking]

I'm not going to call a coach who won a national title for us (and one where we were a national seed and great all season, not one with a few fluky good weeks at the end) a bad hire. Clearly something has changed and he's lost whatever he had in his first 3 years here.

[viverlibre]

I'm not going to call a coach who won a national title for us (and one where we were a national seed and great all season, not one with a few fluky good weeks at the end) a bad hire. Clearly something has changed and he's lost whatever he had in his first 3 years here.

There's something to be said for that. SloMo inherited a loaded team and shite the bed the first season.

[msstate7]

Lemonis is a supervisor, not an architect.

[BHildreth3]

I'm not going to call a coach who won a national title for us (and one where we were a national seed and great all season, not one with a few fluky good weeks at the end) a bad hire. Clearly something has changed and he's lost whatever he had in his first 3 years here.

Cannazario had a lot to do with our NC.

[sandjunky]

Maybe Cohen was hands on during NC season - gave the keys to Lemonis and he ran car off road last year

[BeardoMSU]

I'm not going to call a coach who won a national title for us (and one where we were a national seed and great all season, not one with a few fluky good weeks at the end) a bad hire. Clearly something has changed and he's lost whatever he had in his first 3 years here.


There's something to be said for that. SloMo inherited a loaded team and shite the bed the first season.

Yes and yes.

[Ranchdawg]

Lemonis first year here he left pitchers in way to long. I remember peeps here saying such. Foxhall couldn?t screw up all the alpha male pitchers we had. And we had other alpha males that absolutely refused to give up or lose games. Then we won a championship Lemonis and crew got all the pat on the backs, got all the national media coverage. The next year 2022 we roll out a gutted team. No Alfa males. Just bit players. 2023 Lemonis recruits hard and pulls players off the portal. But for whatever he didn?t prepare the team thoroughly for the season. Didn?t teach what it takes to play in the SEC. And god awful Foxhall just don?t know what the 7 he did to our pitchers. Anyway both need to be fired and sent far away!

[Leeshouldveflanked]

I'm not going to call a coach who won a national title for us (and one where we were a national seed and great all season, not one with a few fluky good weeks at the end) a bad hire. Clearly something has changed and he's lost whatever he had in his first 3 years here.
A blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. The fact that Lemonis won MSU baseball?s first Natty is more on the incompetence of his predecessors. Besides a handful of schools, no one took baseball seriously for 50 years.

[BeardoMSU]

A blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. The fact that Lemonis won MSU baseball?s first Natty is more on the incompetence of his predecessors. Besides a handful of schools, no one took baseball seriously for 50 years.

Still, tho....when finding that "nut" is winning our first NC, it's obviously an accomplishment.

That being said, just as Q said before, something has clearly been lost and the train is well off the tracks.

I've been consistent on my Lem position this season. Unless there is some miraculous turn around (which I see zero hope for), we absolutely should clean house.

That being said, I think a lot of our fans over-estimate our ability to pull a no-doubt/elite/established head coach. All those guys turned us down last time, too. Which is why we ended up with Lemonis (who looked like a goldmine his first 3 seasons).

I'd love Butch, bc he's done way more with less at a historically basement program and bc of his ties here, but I could see a bunch of our fans even being disappointed with him.

[KOdawg1]

Still, tho....when finding that "nut" is winning our first NC, it's obvious an accomplishment.

That being said, just as Q said before, something has cleared be lost and the train is well off the tracks.

I've been consistent on my Lem position this season. Unless there is some miraculous turn around (which I see zero hope for), we absolutely should clean house.

That being said, I think a lot of our fans over-estimate our ability to pull a no-doubt/elite/established head coach. All those guys turned us down last time, too. Which is why we ended up with Lemonis (who looked like a goldmine his first 3 seasons).

I'd love Butch, bc he's done way more with less at a historically basement program and bc of his ties here, but I could see a bunch of our fans even being disappointed with him.

I'd be thrilled with Butch.

You're right in that some fans will have too high of expectations. We're not going to pull a McDonnell, Corbin, Tadlock, or any other proven coach at a top 15 program. It's not gonna happen. We probably won't even pull Godwin.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Lemonis is not a bad coach. He is just regressing back to the mean. Without the elite talent that he inherited that had already been developed he is an average coach. He will put us in the tournament every 2-3 years with a chance to host every 3-4 years. At some schools that is ok, it is not here.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Personally, I think Cohen took too much of Lemon's best friend advice. McDonnell wanted to get his good ol friend a big gig job. We gave that to him. He wasn't at the level that STATE needs. Take a look at his record prior to joining:

2015 Indiana 35-24 12-10 6th NCAA Regional
2016 Indiana 32-24 15-9 T-3rd
2017 Indiana 34-24-2 14-9-1 6th NCAA Regional
2018 Indiana 40-19 14-9 5th NCAA Regional

Honestly? I don't think he deserved it. It's showing. He's average at best and

WE DESERVE THE BEST of the BEST.

Thoughts...

Dan MacDonnell "recommended" his ace recruiter to JC.

MSU did win 40 SEC games and a National Championship

The project has run out of magic, that's the deal

Lemons will always have a ring that McD does not have.

[Santiago]

Still pisses me off how Cohen went around during that season of the coaching search saying the guy he was hiring had multiple CWS appearances. Then when his plan A, B, C fell through, he went to Lemonis.
Then we had the MSU media saying "well he did go to the CWS as an assistant coach"... ok ,but no where near the same as how Cohen was bragging about.

[Quaoarsking]

We probably won't even pull Godwin.

Every SEC school should be able to pull an AAC school in any sport. Missouri should be able to poach him if they were willing to commit to baseball, and if we can't, we are in serious trouble going forward.

[Todd4State]

Lemonis is a supervisor, not an architect.

Good way to put it.

He's not going to meddle with his assistants and a lot of times that is the way to go. And honestly not always a bad thing.

But there are times where he needs to be the big dog and step in- and that is Lemonis's biggest fault right now.

[Todd4State]

Maybe Cohen was hands on during NC season - gave the keys to Lemonis and he ran car off road last year

When Lemonis took over he had two first round pick guys in the rotation- Small and Ginn and then two more on the way in the form of Bednar and Sims. Also inherited Cole Gordon and Colby White who may both be MLB players. Peyton Plumlee was a very good college pitcher who came from a baseball family as his Dad played at Delta State.

Dustin Skelton was a solid catcher and we had LoTan coming in after him and Tanner will probably be a MLB catcher.

On the infield we had two first round picks and Tanner Allen.

Then we had Mangum and MacNamee in the outfield along with Rowdey.

We may have had Hunter Stovall on the team too when Lemonis got here- so yeah.

[Todd4State]

Still pisses me off how Cohen went around during that season of the coaching search saying the guy he was hiring had multiple CWS appearances. Then when his plan A, B, C fell through, he went to Lemonis.
Then we had the MSU media saying "well he did go to the CWS as an assistant coach"... ok ,but no where near the same as how Cohen was bragging about.

Yeah I thought that was pretty funny.

[Commercecomet24]

I'm not going to call a coach who won a national title for us (and one where we were a national seed and great all season, not one with a few fluky good weeks at the end) a bad hire. Clearly something has changed and he's lost whatever he had in his first 3 years here.

This and it's sad.

[KB21]

Cannazario had a lot to do with our NC.

He had some to do with it, but if you look at that team, something like 11 players were recruited by Lemonis, 9 by Cannizaro, and 7 by Cohen.

[raymonddawg]

My thing is.. by all media sites rankings this is a very talented team. the freshman class and also the transfer classes were top 5 nationally and have seemed to be every year. Where is that talent? I can see it in the hitters but where are all the guys that are so highly regarded on the mound? Is it the coaching staff's fault for not developing guys into SEC level players or are is everyone just missing on talent evaluations?

I don't think Lemonis is a bad coach and I honestly don't think anyone else would do much better with our current roster. The entire pitching staff being non-competitive is just killing us.

[msstate7]

My thing is.. by all media sites rankings this is a very talented team. the freshman class and also the transfer classes were top 5 nationally and have seemed to be every year. Where is that talent? I can see it in the hitters but where are all the guys that are so highly regarded on the mound? Is it the coaching staff's fault for not developing guys into SEC level players or are is everyone just missing on talent evaluations?

I don't think Lemonis is a bad coach and I honestly don't think anyone else would do much better with our current roster. The entire pitching staff being non-competitive is just killing us.

If the team has no talent, it's lemonis' fault. Either way, it's lemonis

[KB21]

It's not a talent issue. Particularly on the mound, we have enough of a sample size to notice a trend. We are not advancing pitchers in their development.

[Santiago]

Yeah I thought that was pretty funny.

It is crazy how they tote the line and don't call out Cohen.
But then again the 247 site was led by Rosebowl who made sure every Auburn sports board knew he "was good friends with John".

[confucius say]

Good way to put it.

He's not going to meddle with his assistants and a lot of times that is the way to go. And honestly not always a bad thing.

But there are times where he needs to be the big dog and step in- and that is Lemonis's biggest fault right now.

Lemonis is a good manager, imo.

He and foxhall obviously struggle with evaluating and developing pitchers though.

[The Federalist Engineer]

This and it's sad.

Something to consider is that the Quest for the Championship was a driver and a chip on the shoulder of every MSU Baseball Player, Fan, and Coach. It made all MSU players better, I am thinking about cats like Elijah MacNamee and Hunter Stovall.

Once that Championship was attained, maybe it took the focus and drive away from the entire program. Basically the plot of Rocky III. The next coach needs to be Carl Weathers-Like, bring back the Chip-on-the-Shoulder. Level up and be like Oklahoma and Notre Dame, that don't have parades for every piece of hardware they might win.

Was it just me, I was tired of talking about 1985. That was played out. MSU fans sounded like Al Bundy, talking about his touchdown in High School. "Gene's Ankle", "Miami's Tomahawk HR", and "Thigpen's arm in right field". We were like Chicago Bears fans, correcting everybody about the best team of all time, the 1986 Bears - when everybody would then ask, "Just one sorry Super Bowl against the Pats?"

To be totally self aware, I never mentioned 1985 to friends from places U of Arizona, U of Oklahoma, Duke, and Notre Dame. "So, you didn't win anything? You made a Final-4 and lost?"

[Captain Falcon]

I just don?t think you win a national title in baseball by accident. I realize he inherited a strong roster, but the 2021 team had some flaws that we absolutely had to work around. Bednar and Sims were great, but we didn?t have any other starters that could get us 5 innings by the time the Super Regional rolled around. Even Harding, as clutch as he was, was really more of a 3-4 inning guy. TA and Rowdey were stars, but the rest of that lineup was frankly just OK. LoTan was a good hitter and other guys had their moment?s but let?s not act like we had some murderer?s row. We started Brayland Skinner, Scotty Dubrule, and Lane Forsythe in our championship clinching game. I like those guys but no one would mistake any one of them for a great hitter.

Lemonis WAS a very good coach for us. I will always believe that. He was aided by his team?s talent, sure, but the guy made some really strong moves as a manager his first few years. It makes this cataclysmic fall from grace all the more surprising to me. I thought we may take a step back for a year or two after 2021. No one could have foreseen this kind of collapse. And I feel like it is revisionist?s history to suggest that he was never any good to begin with. That is simply not an accurate depiction of his first three years at all.

[Tbonewannabe]

Butch is a Head coach who has taken his own teams to the CWS. He would be a great hire but we will see how that shakes out. I would imagine Cohen won't let him go easy.

[KB21]

I just don?t think you win a national title in baseball by accident. I realize he inherited a strong roster, but the 2021 team had some flaws that we absolutely had to work around. Bednar and Sims were great, but we didn?t have any other starters that could get us 5 innings by the time the Super Regional rolled around. Even Harding, as clutch as he was, was really more of a 3-4 inning guy. TA and Rowdey were stars, but the rest of that lineup was frankly just OK. LoTan was a good hitter and other guys had their moment?s but let?s not act like we had some murderer?s row. We started Brayland Skinner, Scotty Dubrule, and Lane Forsythe in our championship clinching game. I like those guys but no one would mistake any one of them for a great hitter.

Lemonis WAS a very good coach for us. I will always believe that. He was aided by his team?s talent, sure, but the guy made some really strong moves as a manager his first few years. It makes this cataclysmic fall from grace all the more surprising to me. I thought we may take a step back for a year or two after 2021. No one could have foreseen this kind of collapse. And I feel like it is revisionist?s history to suggest that he was never any good to begin with. That is simply not an accurate depiction of his first three years at all.

This. Chris pushed all the right buttons and ended up winning the whole damn thing. The one thing that I see that I consider a trend is pitching development, or the lack thereof. Why could we not get anything out of a guy with the stuff Eric Cerantola had? Why was Christian MacLeod an absolute stud in 2020 but completely fell off the wagon in 2021? Why hasn't KC Hunt advanced his career? Cade Smith has fallen off this year, though he is injured.

[R2Dawg]

Butch is a Head coach who has taken his own teams to the CWS. He would be a great hire but we will see how that shakes out. I would imagine Cohen won't let him go easy.

True but baseball is the least followed sport at Aub. Cohen got football to fix and get basketball back near the top. Baseball is an afterthought at Aub. Just look at their stadium and where it is - not a priority.

[viverlibre]

True but baseball is the least followed sport at Aub. Cohen got football to fix and get basketball back near the top. Baseball is an afterthought at Aub. Just look at their stadium and where it is - not a priority.

Some MSU fans don't understand that there's only 4-5 programs that really care about baseball, LSU, MSU, OM, Ark and Vandy, and Vandy is questionable as they have no fan support. Understanding this enforces the point of how much Polk underachieved.

[TNDawg35]

What if we were to go out and get him a new Pitching and Hitting coach. I mean we have talent and have really good talent committed… I have never like Gotro. We seem to have way too many games where the hitting is just gone…

We are ALL in agreement Foxhall is gone at the end of the season. I wish it would happen now, but it won’t.

[Commercecomet24]

I just don?t think you win a national title in baseball by accident. I realize he inherited a strong roster, but the 2021 team had some flaws that we absolutely had to work around. Bednar and Sims were great, but we didn?t have any other starters that could get us 5 innings by the time the Super Regional rolled around. Even Harding, as clutch as he was, was really more of a 3-4 inning guy. TA and Rowdey were stars, but the rest of that lineup was frankly just OK. LoTan was a good hitter and other guys had their moment?s but let?s not act like we had some murderer?s row. We started Brayland Skinner, Scotty Dubrule, and Lane Forsythe in our championship clinching game. I like those guys but no one would mistake any one of them for a great hitter.

Lemonis WAS a very good coach for us. I will always believe that. He was aided by his team?s talent, sure, but the guy made some really strong moves as a manager his first few years. It makes this cataclysmic fall from grace all the more surprising to me. I thought we may take a step back for a year or two after 2021. No one could have foreseen this kind of collapse. And I feel like it is revisionist?s history to suggest that he was never any good to begin with. That is simply not an accurate depiction of his first three years at all.

This is a very good post. Accurate. This team didn't have near the talent level that some of Polks teams had yet Lemonis managed to get us the natty that always escaped Coach Polk(and no knock on Coach Polk because I really love the guy). It wasn't luck, it was very good management of the pieces he had.

[confucius say]

We've identified, sighed, and developed some offensive guys. Although the defense is lacking.

The real problem though is evaluating pitchers who can play at this level and developing pitchers. Give us the 2021 staff and we're okay.

[smootness]

What if we were to go out and get him a new Pitching and Hitting coach. I mean we have talent and have really good talent committed? I have never like Gotro. We seem to have way too many games where the hitting is just gone?

We are ALL in agreement Foxhall is gone at the end of the season. I wish it would happen now, but it won?t.

Are we really entertaining bringing Lemonis back? He is responsible for the assistants as well. This is the coaching equivalent of accidentally messing up your numbers as an accountant and destroying the company. No matter what has happened before, he has to go now.

[confucius say]

This is a very good post. Accurate. This team didn't have near the talent level that some of Polks teams had yet Lemonis managed to get us the natty that always escaped Coach Polk(and no knock on Coach Polk because I really love the guy). It wasn't luck, it was very good management of the pieces he had.

Agreed. I posted above, he can manage. The fatal flaw has been evaluating and developing pitching.

[Commercecomet24]

Agreed. I posted above, he can manage. The fatal flaw has been evaluating and developing pitching.

Yep.

[Goldendawg]

Agreed. I posted above, he can manage. The fatal flaw has been evaluating and developing pitching.

Well, Meatloaf sings, "Two Out of Three Ain't Bad". This is only one of three. It's bad.

[The Federalist Engineer]

I just don?t think you win a national title in baseball by accident. I realize he inherited a strong roster, but the 2021 team had some flaws that we absolutely had to work around. Bednar and Sims were great, but we didn?t have any other starters that could get us 5 innings by the time the Super Regional rolled around. Even Harding, as clutch as he was, was really more of a 3-4 inning guy. TA and Rowdey were stars, but the rest of that lineup was frankly just OK. LoTan was a good hitter and other guys had their moment?s but let?s not act like we had some murderer?s row. We started Brayland Skinner, Scotty Dubrule, and Lane Forsythe in our championship clinching game. I like those guys but no one would mistake any one of them for a great hitter.

Lemonis WAS a very good coach for us. I will always believe that. He was aided by his team?s talent, sure, but the guy made some really strong moves as a manager his first few years. It makes this cataclysmic fall from grace all the more surprising to me. I thought we may take a step back for a year or two after 2021. No one could have foreseen this kind of collapse. And I feel like it is revisionist?s history to suggest that he was never any good to begin with. That is simply not an accurate depiction of his first three years at all.

Not luck at all.

Lucky Championship = You skid into Hoover with a 14-16 record, You win a bunch rain-out games in a Miami regional, You play a Buddikha Alabama team in Omaha Game-1, Your top-seed is Arkansas (Omaha Choke Arists), You play a limited cinderella team (Oklahoma for Example) in the Final.

MSU won 20 SEC games. Won a National Seed. Had a Super Hot Notre Dame to beat, Had Texas in the Omaha Bracket, Had a Super Hot Virginia to Beat, Then COVID knee-capped the Limited team (NCSU) and MSU had to play a National Powerhouse (Vandy)

[KB21]

Not luck at all.

Lucky Championship = You skid into Hoover with a 14-16 record, You win a bunch rain-out games in a Miami regional, You play a Buddikha Alabama team in Omaha Game-1, Your top-seed is Arkansas (Omaha Choke Arists), You play a limited cinderella team (Oklahoma for Example) in the Final.

MSU won 20 SEC games. Won a National Seed. Had a Super Hot Notre Dame to beat, Had Texas in the Omaha Bracket, Had a Super Hot Virginia to Beat, Then COVID knee-capped the Limited team (NCSU) and MSU had to play a National Powerhouse (Vandy)

Yep.

[HancockCountyDog]

What is amazing is that you always wonder how much time winning a national title buys a HC at certain sports at different schools.

I never thought it would be less than two years at MSU for a coach who won a national title in a big 3 sport. I mean, don't get me wrong, losing 17 straight SEC games is like one of those terrible hypotheticals people come up after we make it to the CWS.

You know, "would you go 0-30 in the SEC next year in exchange for winning the title this year?" I think everyone always says, yes i'll take it and won't fire the coach as long as they bring home the national title for our school, especially in baseball where we have been so damn close.

Well - we are basically living that hypothetical and its amazing how quickly people forget the title. Now, I am not making any excuses, i mean at this point I think if he ends up missing a regional we go 10-20 in the SEC i think its a pretty obvious move, but what will be funny is that it appears our friends to the north just can't help but copy us and are trying to go 10-20 (at best) in the SEC after winning the title. I'll be interested in how long until the shine wears off there.

[MetEdDawg]

Anyone that thinks it was a fluke to win a national championship is stupid. You don't fluke your way to that even with talent.

Look at the NCAA Tournament. Talent alone doesn't win you games. You've got to have some talent but you have to have a lot of other things including coaching.

Lemonis and staff coached their asses off in the championship year. Right now they aren't. This team looks unprepared mentally to compete. When you come from a culture where you don't win championships, that first one can mess with the mentality of younger guys or guys that didn't have to put in max effort to get that. I think of Tanner Allen, Jake Mangum, and others and the amount of work and sweat equity those guys had in the program to get us to that level. Now these guys are living off the legend they created.

These guys haven't really sniffed that and I don't think Lemonis has done a good job of ramping up the toughness needed post championship when you are always the hunted team. Teams bring it to us every game now and you have to adjust your coaching to that. He hasn't and neither has Foxhall. Watch our pitching staff and tell me they are a mentally tough group of people. That's where we lack right now and Lemonis has to fix that program wide.

[Commercecomet24]

Not luck at all.

Lucky Championship = You skid into Hoover with a 14-16 record, You win a bunch rain-out games in a Miami regional, You play a Buddikha Alabama team in Omaha Game-1, Your top-seed is Arkansas (Omaha Choke Arists), You play a limited cinderella team (Oklahoma for Example) in the Final.

MSU won 20 SEC games. Won a National Seed. Had a Super Hot Notre Dame to beat, Had Texas in the Omaha Bracket, Had a Super Hot Virginia to Beat, Then COVID knee-capped the Limited team (NCSU) and MSU had to play a National Powerhouse (Vandy)

Now this is a great post!

Have some rep!

[KB21]

Anyone that thinks it was a fluke to win a national championship is stupid. You don't fluke your way to that even with talent.

Look at the NCAA Tournament. Talent alone doesn't win you games. You've got to have some talent but you have to have a lot of other things including coaching.

Lemonis and staff coached their asses off in the championship year. Right now they aren't. This team looks unprepared mentally to compete. When you come from a culture where you don't win championships, that first one can mess with the mentality of younger guys or guys that didn't have to put in max effort to get that. I think of Tanner Allen, Jake Mangum, and others and the amount of work and sweat equity those guys had in the program to get us to that level. Now these guys are living off the legend they created.

These guys haven't really sniffed that and I don't think Lemonis has done a good job of ramping up the toughness needed post championship when you are always the hunted team. Teams bring it to us every game now and you have to adjust your coaching to that. He hasn't and neither has Foxhall. Watch our pitching staff and tell me they are a mentally tough group of people. That's where we lack right now and Lemonis has to fix that program wide.

This team's mentality right now is one where they are just waiting for the other shoe to drop. When one bad thing happens, it snowballs and gets bigger. It's like they are in quick sand, and no matter how hard they try to get out, they keep sinking. We aren't seeing the Preston Johnson type of mentality where he waves bye bye to the ball and then refocuses.

[msstate7]

I think all baseball championships have a certain level of luck. The braves' WS was with one of their worst teams of late. I don't think state's championship team was our best team ever. What doesn't involve luck is putting yourself in the best position to succeed in the postseason. This is something we did quite well our championship year.

[Commercecomet24]

This team's mentality right now is one where they are just waiting for the other shoe to drop. When one bad thing happens, it snowballs and gets bigger. It's like they are in quick sand, and no matter how hard they try to get out, they keep sinking. We aren't seeing the Preston Johnson type of mentality where he waves bye bye to the ball and then refocuses.

Yeah you can see it. They start really pressing and tightening up when something adverse happens. During 2021 i didn't even worry when we got behind because we alwyays found a way to win or to at least put ourselves in a position to win late in the game. Baseball is so mental especially with young players and they're basically teenagers and learning to overcome adversity and move on is something you have to learn. And you're right there is a mental toughness that's required to do that.

ETA I will say this the players seem to be putting out the effort but that mental aspect can outweigh the physical.

[KB21]

I think all baseball championships have a certain level of luck. The braves' WS was with one of their worst teams of late. I don't think state's championship team was our best team ever. What doesn't involve luck is putting yourself in the best position to succeed in the postseason. This is something we did quite well our championship year.

The 2016 was as talented as any team we have had at MSU as well, and they lost to the hot hand in the Supers. That team was definitely the best team in the country that year.

[KB21]

Yeah you can see it. They start really pressing and tightening up whe something adverse happens. During 2021 i didn't even worry when we got behing becuase we alwyays found a way to win or to at least put ourselves in a position to win late in the game. Baseball is so mental especially with young players and they're basically teenagers and learning to overcome adversity and move on is something you have to learn. And you're right it is a mental toughness that's required to do that.

ETA I will say this the players seem to be putting out the effort but that mental aspect can outweigh the physical.

Yeah, and I don't think that mental toughness edge can be attributed to just Tanner Allen and Rowdy Jordan.

[Commercecomet24]

Yeah, and I don't think that mental toughness edge can be attributed to just Tanner Allen and Rowdy Jordan.

100% agree on that! It permeated that whole 2021 team. Just like anything in baseball these things are contagious and you have players that push each other to be better and of course the opposite is true as well, when things go bad that gets contagious too.

I heard Bill Belichik mic'ed up on the sideline and I think it was 2009. The saints were blowing them out and he was telling Brady toward the end of the game that the team just wasn't mentally tough and he couldn't get them to perform to the level needed. After that season he pretty much flipped the roster.

[KB21]

100% agree on that! It permeated that whole 2021 team. Just like anything in baseball these things are contagious and you have players that push each other to be better and of course the opposite is true as well, when things go bad that gets contagious too.

I heard Bill Belichik mic'ed up on the sideline and I think it was 2009. The saints were blowing them out and he was telling Brady toward the end of the game that the team just wasn't mentally tough and he couldn't get them to perform to the level needed. After that season he pretty much flipped the roster.

And we still have guys who were contributors on that team. Luke Hancock, Kellum Clark, Lane Forsythe, Cade Smith (not contributing this year due to sickness), KC Hunt (was more of an observer on that team)...etc. I just can't figure out why things have gone sideways.

[Commercecomet24]

And we still have guys who were contributors on that team. Luke Hancock, Kellum Clark, Lane Forsythe, Cade Smith (not contributing this year due to sickness), KC Hunt (was more of an observer on that team)...etc. I just can't figure out why things have gone sideways.

I'm right there with you. I've been in baseball for years and I've never seen anything quite like this. I keep waiting for us to just go on a tear but it seems like the trains headed the other way.

[Goldendawg]

Yeah you can see it. They start really pressing and tightening up whe something adverse happens. During 2021 i didn't even worry when we got behing becuase we alwyays found a way to win or to at least put ourselves in a position to win late in the game. Baseball is so mental especially with young players and they're basically teenagers and learning to overcome adversity and move on is something you have to learn. And you're right it is a mental toughness that's required to do that.

ETA I will say this the players seem to be putting out the effort but that mental aspect can outweigh the physical.

Good points. I don't think one of our historically very good fielders makes about 4 errors over 2 games if we are not in this terrible funk. No doubt that they are in a very bad spot mentally also. Need a few SEC wins asap! Hail State!

[KB21]

This makes me think so much of 2019 in football where, went things went wrong, it went badly wrong.

I mean, what's it going to take to get these pitchers to just relax and throw strikes. Guys like Dohm, Holcombe, Clintje, and Loftin have the stuff that even if they give up contact over the plate, they aren't going to get hit that bad. Heck, I think Loftin has given up just a .149 BAA on the year while he's walked 24 batters in 24 some odd innings. Clintje has a .165 BAA but has 15 walks in 20 innings. Teams are hitting Holcombe at around .185 and Dohm at around .200, so the issue isn't these guys giving up hits and loud contact. It's that they just aren't consistently throwing strikes.

[ScottH]

Personally, I think Cohen took too much of Lemon's best friend advice. McDonnell wanted to get his good ol friend a big gig job. We gave that to him. He wasn't at the level that STATE needs. Take a look at his record prior to joining:

2015 Indiana 35-24 12-10 6th NCAA Regional
2016 Indiana 32-24 15-9 T-3rd
2017 Indiana 34-24-2 14-9-1 6th NCAA Regional
2018 Indiana 40-19 14-9 5th NCAA Regional

Thoughts...

Missing from above - The 3 years prior to Lemonis Indiana finished 1,1 &2 in the Big 10. Indiana regressed under Lemonis.

[parabrave]

Lemonis favorite song. And apparently Biancos also

https://youtu.be/7HfkSzsyh1E

[R2Dawg]

Not luck at all.

Lucky Championship = You skid into Hoover with a 14-16 record, You win a bunch rain-out games in a Miami regional, You play a Buddikha Alabama team in Omaha Game-1, Your top-seed is Arkansas (Omaha Choke Arists), You play a limited cinderella team (Oklahoma for Example) in the Final.

MSU won 20 SEC games. Won a National Seed. Had a Super Hot Notre Dame to beat, Had Texas in the Omaha Bracket, Had a Super Hot Virginia to Beat, Then COVID knee-capped the Limited team (NCSU) and MSU had to play a National Powerhouse (Vandy)

We also played 7 games against national seeds in CWS. It is hard to win but the contrast to our NC is OM last year. Last team in and didn't play a national seed even one game to win NC. Only team to ever do that. That is about as close to luck as you get but even then they had to play and earn it.

[StarkVegasSteve]

And we still have guys who were contributors on that team. Luke Hancock, Kellum Clark, Lane Forsythe, Cade Smith (not contributing this year due to sickness), KC Hunt (was more of an observer on that team)...etc. I just can't figure out why things have gone sideways.

We do not have an alpha. None of those guys are alpha in your face guys. I believe Bryce Chance could be that type of guy but it is hard to tell since we are so bad.

[confucius say]

We do not have an alpha. None of those guys are alpha in your face guys. I believe Bryce Chance could be that type of guy but it is hard to tell since we are so bad.

A couple of the freshmen have that.
But it's hard for freshmen to take that role.

90% of this just boils down to huge misses on pitcher evaluation and lack of development. And injuries to Cade, Simmons, and Augur

[Todd4State]

I'm right there with you. I've been in baseball for years and I've never seen anything quite like this. I keep waiting for us to just go on a tear but it seems like the trains headed the other way.

To me it all goes back to pitching. If you have a poor pitching program it can go south very quickly. You have to be able to pitch to win in baseball.

[Goldendawg]

When Coach Lemonis was being interviewed and said "eleven of those (losses) were last year", regarding our SEC losing streak, I immediately thought of JoMo, (kick rocks and pound sand).

[parabrave]

To me it all goes back to pitching. If you have a poor pitching program it can go south very quickly. You have to be able to pitch to win in baseball.

Also like some others have posted being down by 4 or more runs changes your approach at the plate/

[Commercecomet24]

To me it all goes back to pitching. If you have a poor pitching program it can go south very quickly. You have to be able to pitch to win in baseball.

Every thing in baseball starts on that mound. I remember talking to a head coach who was recruiting my son and was looking for more pitching. He said "Never heard a coach say we lost a series because we didn't have enough left fielders!"

[Todd4State]

Also like some others have posted being down by 4 or more runs changes your approach at the plate/

Absolutely. It completely shuts down your running game. And it causes hitters to have to be more patient at the plate.


Every thing in baseball starts on that mound. I remember talking to a head coach who was recruiting my son and was looking for more pitching. He said "Never heard a coach say we lost a series because we didn't have enough left fielders!"

Exactly! I got into a discussion with a co-worker who has a son that plays at La Tech and they were saying "you gotta have the sticks" but like I told them I can't remember one team that has won the World Series in MLB or college that had bad pitching. I have seen some teams that weren't great at hitting win a championship every now and then though. You have to pitch and play defense to win.

Cohen had the right idea when I heard him say one time that ideally you want seven guys who you can count on- three weekend starters, a midweek guy, a relief ace like Dohm, a set-up guy, and a closer.