View Full Version : First spring pratice article.........
Saltydog
03-07-2023, 10:09 PM
STARKVILLE ? Within minutes of the start of Mississippi State football?s first spring practice on Tuesday, quarterback Will Rogers was sprinting to the line of scrimmage, flashing hand signals to his receivers and shouting at his offensive line to get set. In the first look at a fresh season under head coach Zach Arnett and offensive coordinator Kevin Barbay, there was little time wasted.
The new regime wants to move with pace and purpose.
?We started practice really, really fast with some up-tempo plays ? good on go,? Rogers said. ?It was good to be out flying around with the guys and learning a new scheme.?
Barbay has wasted little time in throwing the playbook at his new roster. He had running back Jo?quavious Marks tossing reverses to receiver Lideatrick Griffin. He had defensive players slotting in at tight end. He had Vanderbilt transfer quarterback Mike Wright coming off the edge and burning defenders.
Though certain schemes are still incorporated, the true Air Raid run by former coach Mike Leach has been replaced by a system players such as Marks haven?t seen since high school. It also has created an external challenge for Rogers.
The Brandon, Mississippi, native came to Mississippi State to play in the Air Raid, and it?s resulted in him putting up impressive numbers and breaking records. It?s also placed the label of a system quarterback on him by many, which has given Rogers something to prove even with the regular season six months away.
?At the end of the day, you can play football or you can?t,? Rogers said. ?It?s football. I don?t care what system you?re in. You can throw and catch the ball, or you can?t.?
Welcome Mike Wright
The first question Rogers fielded about Wright was blunt: Mike Wright is a very different quarterback than you are, what?s that dynamic been like in the quarterback room?
?Are you saying I can?t run,? Rogers responded. He paused for a second.
?I?m messing with you, man," he followed up.
Wright?s rushing ability is new in an offense that has rarely attempted even a quarterback sneak since 2020. Rogers? last keeper with Leach came late in the Egg Bowl where he fumbled at the goal line.
Pushing for Rogers? starting spot won?t be easy for Wright, but it?s evident he can be utilized in special packages. His experience in the SEC is vital too.
Rogers cited Ole Miss as an example, with Oklahoma State transfer Spencer Sanders and LSU transfer Walker Howard pushing for Jaxson Dart's starting job.
?If you?re a competitor, it really doesn?t matter,? Rogers said.
Old faces, new positions
Mississippi State has a pair of transfer tight ends from national championship participants on the roster. However, Georgia?s Ryland Goede and TCU?s Geor'Quarius Spivey won?t be available until the summer.
Barbay has taken players from Matt Brock?s defense to fill in. Linebacker Ty Cooper and defensive lineman Jacarius Clayton joined wide receiver Antonio Harmon and offensive tackle Malik Ellis in making the shift.
?They?ve done a really good job, and they?ve had a great attitude about it,? Rogers said. ?They?ve done everything coach has asked them to do. That?s all you can ask for in spring. Spring is a time where you?re trying to learn, especially now with a new system.?
Along with the increase in touches, the new system provides an extra blocker ahead of running backs.
?I haven?t ever followed a tight end,? Marks said. ?It?s another blocker getting downhill, so it?ll be good.?
parabrave
03-07-2023, 10:21 PM
What we didn't line up in the wishbone and run 5 straight Dive plays just to piss of KB and Todd/
Dawgface
03-07-2023, 10:39 PM
No wishbone? Well crap.
BuckyIsAB****
03-08-2023, 06:55 AM
If Harmon will buy in he could be a real player at that spot
BeardoMSU
03-08-2023, 07:39 AM
No wishbone? Well crap.
We did run a play with 5-wide-runningbacks, tho***
parabrave
03-08-2023, 08:40 AM
We did run a play with 5-wide-runningbacks, tho***
And A TE blocking Sacrilege!!!
SpaceBully
03-08-2023, 09:37 AM
No wishbone? Well crap.
Wouldn't mind seeing some option plays thrown in occasionally. They come in handy and some pro teams use them a lot. If you catch the defense at the right time, option can rip off huge gains.
parabrave
03-08-2023, 11:03 AM
Wouldn't mind seeing some option plays thrown in occasionally. They come in handy and some pro teams use them a lot. If you catch the defense at the right time, option can rip off huge gains.
Hell Rocky can go down and give a special training seminar on the veer/
GoDawgz
03-08-2023, 11:17 AM
It doenst matter what offense State runs......people will always
gripe about something.
RockyDog
03-08-2023, 12:22 PM
It's clear from this article that the players have been told to lie and are not truthful with the fans. Obviously Barbary and Will Arnette are in over their heads and deserve to lose their jobs!!! They will be lucky to win one game next year running this ground and pound offense!
DownwardDawg
03-08-2023, 02:15 PM
It's clear from this article that the players have been told to lie and are not truthful with the fans. Obviously Barbary and Will Arnette are in over their heads and deserve to lose their jobs!!! They will be lucky to win one game next year running this ground and pound offense!
Rep!!
Rick Danko
03-08-2023, 02:32 PM
It doenst matter what offense State runs......people will always
gripe about something.
It doesn?t matter what State does in anything? people will always gripe. I have learned that from my time of perusing message boards. Our fan base thrives on having its panties in a bunch.
TrapGame
03-08-2023, 03:35 PM
?I haven?t ever followed a tight end,? Marks said. ?It?s another blocker getting downhill, so it?ll be good.?
How dare he want to have an extra blocker!!! Doesn't he realize he should be catching 3 yard dump down passes instead?!! Oh, stop the madness!!
How dare he want to have an extra blocker!!! Doesn't he realize he should be catching 3 yard dump down passes instead?!! Oh, stop the madness!!
I hope he enjoys running against 8 man boxes due to the condensed offensive formations he will be playing out of as well as the offensive coordinator's stated philosophy of "everything begins with the running game. We have to establish the running game."
Extendedcab
03-08-2023, 03:50 PM
It doesn?t matter what State does in anything? people will always gripe. I have learned that from my time of perusing message boards. Our fan base thrives on having its panties in a bunch.
Yep, some people thrive on being ticked off! They are only happy when they are mad at something ***** figure that one out! :confused:
TrapGame
03-08-2023, 03:50 PM
I hope he enjoys running against 8 man fronts due to the condensed offensive formations he will be playing out of as well as the offensive coordinator's stated philosophy of "everything begins with the running game. We have to establish the running game."
Shut up Drama Queen.
Shut up Drama Queen.
He apparently hasn't realized that the NFL wants running backs that can play in the passing game.
Goldendawg
03-08-2023, 04:09 PM
He apparently hasn't realized that the NFL wants running backs that can play in the passing game.
Why not give it a chance? If the new offense fails, then most of us can eat crow and admit you were right. Until then, you have beaten this horse to death and into the dust. If your goal is to become the #1 poster on this board, you've got about 65K posts to go. Hail State!
StarkVegasSteve
03-08-2023, 04:35 PM
He apparently hasn't realized that the NFL wants running backs that can play in the passing game.
Damn, if only he had played in a pass heavy offense for two years he'd have a chance. Well Woody, you heard the savant, go ahead and clean out your locker. No reason to play the game anymore.
TrapGame
03-08-2023, 04:42 PM
He apparently hasn't realized that the NFL wants running backs that can play in the passing game.
Which NFL team do you scout for, Chief?
R2Dawg
03-08-2023, 04:48 PM
Why not give it a chance? If the new offense fails, then most of us can eat crow and admit you were right. Until then, you have beaten this horse to death and into the dust. If your goal is to become the #1 poster on this board, you've got about 65K posts to go. Hail State!
No actually no one has to eat crow. If our last O was like best in SEC then OK but we were bottom half of SEC so we don't have to do a whole lot to improve.
Just because it will look different doesn't mean it is bad even with similar results but just like I did with AR - I'm going to wait and see before judgment. Others need to wait before passing judgement.
Damn, if only he had played in a pass heavy offense for two years he'd have a chance. Well Woody, you heard the savant, go ahead and clean out your locker. No reason to play the game anymore.
He'd definitely generate more NFL interest if he went out with a 120 rush/80 reception season than he will if he goes out with a 180 rush/20 reception season.
MrCoachKlein
03-08-2023, 05:11 PM
He'd definitely generate more NFL interest if he went out with a 120 rush/80 reception season than he will if he goes out with a 180 rush/20 reception season.
Maybe for another RB, but it won't matter for Woody. He has the tape already proving he can catch although his route tree was extremely limited (wheel and flat only?). It's not like he was lining up at slot WR like Kamara was 3 years ago.
SpaceBully
03-08-2023, 05:49 PM
There's not one person on any message board that knows what our team will do this fall. Don't even think the spring will reveal it either. And I'm fine with arriving at my seat in DWS for the Southeastern LA game, not knowing a damn thing either. And probably ZArnold is good with that too.
StarkVegasSteve
03-08-2023, 06:01 PM
He'd definitely generate more NFL interest if he went out with a 120 rush/80 reception season than he will if he goes out with a 180 rush/20 reception season.
So what you're saying is, and let me make sure I understand this, scouts who are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars are going to look at him after he has caught over 100 passes in two years and say "well he only caught 40 this year so he can't catch and he isn't valuable to us"/
So what you're saying is, and let me make sure I understand this, scouts who are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars are going to look at him after he has caught over 100 passes in two years and say "well he only caught 40 this year so he can't catch and he isn't valuable to us"/
I?m saying that Woody is wrong in his thinking that taking more handoffs will help him long term. Particularly in an offense that will ?run the ball come hell or high water.?
parabrave
03-08-2023, 06:37 PM
It's clear from this article that the players have been told to lie and are not truthful with the fans. Obviously Barbary and Will Arnette are in over their heads and deserve to lose their jobs!!! They will be lucky to win one game next year running this ground and pound offense!
You forgot these ****. If not just change your name to KBs little toy.
Homedawg
03-08-2023, 07:36 PM
So what you're saying is, and let me make sure I understand this, scouts who are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars are going to look at him after he has caught over 100 passes in two years and say "well he only caught 40 this year so he can't catch and he isn't valuable to us"/
Don't call him out on a completely ignorant post. I mean my gosh. Meaning his..... he's an all knowing dr. I'm sure his patients love him though.
Homedawg
03-08-2023, 07:38 PM
I?m saying that Woody is wrong in his thinking that taking more handoffs will help him long term. Particularly in an offense that will ?run the ball come hell or high water.?
Woody and DJ both wanted more rushes to come back. Rushes. You do the math. But I don't expect you to get it. But to say they are hurting their stock bc they won't catch enough passes is just so ..........
RockyDog
03-08-2023, 07:52 PM
He'd definitely generate more NFL interest if he went out with a 120 rush/80 reception season than he will if he goes out with a 180 rush/20 reception season.
You are a damn idiot. There were exactly ZERO running backs with 60 receptions last season much less 80.
The first NON WR with 60 receptions was Brock Bowers and 2 other tight ends.
You are just flat out making crap up to fit your dumb ass arguments at this point.
Woody and DJ both wanted more rushes to come back. Rushes. You do the math. But I don't expect you to get it. But to say they are hurting their stock bc they won't catch enough passes is just so ..........
Probably because they listened to people who still believe running the ball is the most important part of offense.
NWADAWG
03-08-2023, 08:16 PM
No actually no one has to eat crow. If our last O was like best in SEC then OK but we were bottom half of SEC so we don't have to do a whole lot to improve.
Just because it will look different doesn't mean it is bad even with similar results but just like I did with AR - I'm going to wait and see before judgment. Others need to wait before passing judgement.
Or handing it off and running it.**
Commercecomet24
03-08-2023, 08:19 PM
Man I knew it would happen sooner or later in this thread. Y'all mentioned his name to often and you summoned the Candyman! Now we're paying the price lol!
coachnorm
03-08-2023, 08:24 PM
Has anyone who has posted on this issue referenced any video that they have seen on YouTube regarding App. St? I was curious and not judgmental, TED LASSO, and absorbed as much App. St. content as possible to gain an understanding.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x0PzUoJS-U
TrapGame
03-08-2023, 08:26 PM
Man I knew it would happen sooner or later in this thread. Y'all mentioned his name to often and you summoned the Candyman! Now we're paying the price lol!
Candy Man?!!
No way CC. It's like summoning Doofy from Scary Movie.
https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/2021/03/18/a449fd85-947c-410a-b001-bef942839385/scary-movie-deputy-doofy-dave-sheridan-1246309.jpg
https://badgerextra.com/sports/football/wisconsin-football-running-back-braelon-allen-excited-for-new-offense/article_79b6d98c-92e7-11ed-8de6-6fcfb22032a5.html
?Not going to miss those 9 man boxes,? Allen tweeted Thursday afternoon, a reference to the extra defenders University of Wisconsin opponents would align near the line of the scrimmage to slow the Badgers? run game.
Commercecomet24
03-08-2023, 08:27 PM
Candy Man?!!
No way CC. It's like summoning Doofy from Scary Movie.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/scarymoviefilms/images/3/38/Y5tre.png/revision/latest?cb=20180421172040
Good one!
RockyDog
03-08-2023, 08:31 PM
https://badgerextra.com/sports/football/wisconsin-football-running-back-braelon-allen-excited-for-new-offense/article_79b6d98c-92e7-11ed-8de6-6fcfb22032a5.html
?Not going to miss those 9 man boxes,? Allen tweeted Thursday afternoon, a reference to the extra defenders University of Wisconsin opponents would align near the line of the scrimmage to slow the Badgers? run game.
Phil Longo, non-Leach air raid disciple who plans to utilize the TE. Perfect comparison. 🤦🏻🤦🏻
Phil Longo, non-Leach air raid disciple who plans to utilize the TE. Perfect comparison. 🤦🏻🤦🏻
If I had to say with regards to who has been the biggest influence on me from a professional standpoint and a football standpoint I?d say it?d be Mike (Leach) with regards to throwing the football,? Longo said.
I know some of you want to try and diminish the impact Mike had on offense n the modern football era, but not many coaches would say that they were more influenced by Greg Davis than they are Mike Leach.
Man??F U C K this air raid love fest shit. Use some of it use some of others.
Acting like the air raid was the end all be all is a f u c k I n g joke. Our offense was like watching old people 17 most of every game.
No need to blow it up, but ray Charles can see we needed to tweak some things or recruit the absolute best players.
Pancho
03-08-2023, 08:43 PM
thats some serious man crush issues. help is avaiable
Homedawg
03-08-2023, 08:54 PM
Probably because they listened to people who still believe running the ball is the most important part of offense.
OR more probable is the guys who get drafted at rb actually run the ball more than they catch it. Even the best ones. Being able to catch it is important. Being able to block at that position in the nfl is WAY more important. It's not even close.
RockyDog
03-08-2023, 09:02 PM
OR more probable is the guys who get drafted at rb actually run the ball more than they catch it. Even the best ones. Being able to catch it is important. Being able to block at that position in the nfl is WAY more important. It's not even close.
Marks and Dillon are 2 of only 3 backs who have had 60+ receptions in the last TWO SEASONS yet this clown is trying to argue that backs with 80 receptions should be the norm.
parabrave
03-08-2023, 11:09 PM
Candy Man?!!
No way CC. It's like summoning Doofy from Scary Movie.
https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/2021/03/18/a449fd85-947c-410a-b001-bef942839385/scary-movie-deputy-doofy-dave-sheridan-1246309.jpg
Dam I blew snot. Instant rep.
Todd4State
03-09-2023, 02:06 AM
I?m saying that Woody is wrong in his thinking that taking more handoffs will help him long term. Particularly in an offense that will ?run the ball come hell or high water.?
Woody's biggest issue is staying healthy.
Todd4State
03-09-2023, 02:18 AM
Has anyone who has posted on this issue referenced any video that they have seen on YouTube regarding App. St? I was curious and not judgmental, TED LASSO, and absorbed as much App. St. content as possible to gain an understanding.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x0PzUoJS-U
We're probably going to look a lot more like Central Michigan than App State if I had to guess.
I don't think anyone really knows for sure at this point if we're being honest.
One thing that I do feel fairly confident about is we don't have the personnel for him to do what he really wants to do at this point. So let's just hope he doesn't square peg round hole our season again like every new offensive coach or coordinator we hire.
PMDawg
03-09-2023, 09:11 AM
If the new offense fails, then most of us can eat crow and admit you were right.
WRONG! It's never been an argument of whether or not the offense will be successful. The argument is that KB doesn't have the intellectual horsepower required to understand what the offense will actually look like because he has an incorrect preconceived notion about what "pro-style" means. And that has already been proven true, so no one has any crow to eat on that matter. Might the offense fail? Sure. But most of us want to wait and see what it actually looks like BEFORE we try to pass judgment on it.
There are plenty of people who have a healthy skepticism about it. This one guy just has an unhealthy obsession with it that is based purely on emotion. That can never be bared out to have been the correct stance, no matter what.
TrapGame
03-09-2023, 09:30 AM
WRONG! It's never been an argument of whether or not the offense will be successful. The argument is that KB doesn't have the intellectual horsepower required to understand what the offense will actually look like because he has an incorrect preconceived notion about what "pro-style" means. And that has already been proven true, so no one has any crow to eat on that matter. Might the offense fail? Sure. But most of us want to wait and see what it actually looks like BEFORE we try to pass judgment on it.
There are plenty of people who have a healthy skepticism about it. This one guy just has an unhealthy obsession with it that is based purely on emotion. That can never be bared out to have been the correct stance, no matter what.
BINGO!
It's not that the offense won't work. It's that this is not the offense HE WANTS.
We could lead the conference in rushing yards and rushing touchdowns next season and he'd still be PISSED b/c we aren't throwing it enough.
parabrave
03-09-2023, 09:57 AM
WRONG! It's never been an argument of whether or not the offense will be successful. The argument is that KB doesn't have the intellectual horsepower required to understand what the offense will actually look like because he has an incorrect preconceived notion about what "pro-style" means. And that has already been proven true, so no one has any crow to eat on that matter. Might the offense fail? Sure. But most of us want to wait and see what it actually looks like BEFORE we try to pass judgment on it.
There are plenty of people who have a healthy skepticism about it. This one guy just has an unhealthy obsession with it that is based purely on emotion. That can never be bared out to have been the correct stance, no matter what.
He don't care. He is a mega Troll/ He would be doing the same if we were all for the Air Raid and he was for the wishbone/
RockyDog
03-09-2023, 10:19 AM
BINGO!
It's not that the offense won't work. It's that this is not the offense HE WANTS.
We could lead the conference in rushing yards and rushing touchdowns next season and he'd still be PISSED b/c we aren't throwing it enough.
I think the problem is we have fans with PTSD from the pre-Mullen days that aren?t aware that it IS a possibility to have an offense that can run AND throw the ball too. I know that didn?t happen much during the Felker/Sherrill/Crooms regime but Merlins showed that you CAN have a run based offense that STILL has a 2500+ yard passer. Chris Relf was statistically better than ANY QB those 3 previous coaches ever fielded.
We just need a segment of our fans to leave the 80s and realize that modern offenses go way beyond 3 yards and a cloud of dust led by a QB that can?t hit the broad side of a barn.
Hell there are offenses these days that can run for 2000 and pass for 3500 easily in todays game. Crooms and Sherill couldn?t have put those numbers up in 2 seasons.
StarkVegasSteve
03-09-2023, 10:37 AM
I think the problem is we have fans with PTSD from the pre-Mullen days that aren?t aware that it IS a possibility to have an offense that can run AND throw the ball too. I know that didn?t happen much during the Felker/Sherrill/Crooms regime but Merlins showed that you CAN have a run based offense that STILL has a 2500+ yard passer. Chris Relf was statistically better than ANY QB those 3 previous coaches ever fielded.
We just need a segment of our fans to leave the 80s and realize that modern offenses go way beyond 3 yards and a cloud of dust led by a QB that can?t hit the broad side of a barn.
Hell there are offenses these days that can run for 2000 and pass for 3500 easily in todays game. Crooms and Sherill couldn?t have put those numbers up in 2 seasons.
Lincoln Riley, that's noted Mike Leach disciple and close friend Lincoln Riley, institutes a TE and has about a 60/40 run to pass split. But every time that stat is brought up, and I've brought it up multiple times, he runs and hides until someone else posts something that he can cherrypick.
mo7888
03-09-2023, 11:12 AM
Why not give it a chance? If the new offense fails, then most of us can eat crow and admit you were right. Until then, you have beaten this horse to death and into the dust. If your goal is to become the #1 poster on this board, you've got about 65K posts to go. Hail State!
I agree with the sentiment, but I dont believe any of these guys are going to admit they were wron and eat crow (on either side of this)
coachnorm
03-09-2023, 11:19 AM
One pass completion of 80 yards nets you 80 yards. Sixteen pass completions of five yards nets you 80 yards. What is the true production, is it attempts and completions or production in yards? Were we a true pass attack with swing passes, check downs, and screens substituted for up field pass completions. I am happy to know that the garbage gadget short pass scheme is gone. I would easily take one 80 yard completion and 15 run plays over 16 five yard completions. A single back tight end offense is a four receiver attack especially when the tight end is flexed so if the opposition loads the line of scrimmage, something big might punch them in the mouth via the scoreboard?
PMDawg
03-09-2023, 12:07 PM
I agree with the sentiment, but I dont believe any of these guys are going to admit they were wron and eat crow (on either side of this)
What are the sides?
https://twitter.com/PlayersTribune/status/1633860264037580801?s=20
What are the sides?
The intellectual side who knows the passing game is the most important aspect to winning, and the ignorant side who believes you have to run the ball to win.
DEDawg
03-09-2023, 12:47 PM
Woody's biggest issue is staying healthy.
New offense should greatly benefit him, I know it was integral to the offense but I always hated watching him get absolutely blown up by a corner with a 8 yard running start on a 2 yard flat. Woody gonna eat this year
StarkVegasSteve
03-09-2023, 12:59 PM
The intellectual side who knows the passing game is the most important aspect to winning, and the ignorant side who believes you have to run the ball to win.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE BALANCE TO WIN. How MF hard is that for you to understand? How many times was Mike Leach in the playoffs? ZERO. How many conference championships did he win? ZERO.
There is a cap on the pure Air Raid. Do you not understand that there's a reason NO ONE ELSE runs it? It will NEVER win big. It will get you between 7-8 wins a year and maybe once every 4 years you can win 9-10. Which is exactly our historical average for the last 14 years.
If you're going to continue with this shit for the next 8 months please leave and go get an actual hobby.
PMDawg
03-09-2023, 01:28 PM
The intellectual side who knows the passing game is the most important aspect to winning, and the ignorant side who believes you have to run the ball to win.
LOL @ you believing you are intellectual!!! Thanks, I needed a good laugh today!
But, I wasn't asking you.
I'll answer my own question. As I stated earlier, there really aren't two sides here. There's you, who is irrelevant, because you're just throwing an eternal childish tantrum about things you can't understand, then there's everyone else. Amongst "everyone else", there are a LOT of different takes, but most of them actually take facts, data, and actual football into account. In this camp, there's room for intelligent discussion, debate, opposing views, and general football talk. In your camp, there's just a monkey throwing dung on itself repeatedly.
LOL @ you believing you are intellectual!!! Thanks, I needed a good laugh today!
But, I wasn't asking you.
I'll answer my own question. As I stated earlier, there really aren't two sides here. There's you, who is irrelevant, because you're just throwing an eternal childish tantrum about things you can't understand, then there's everyone else. Amongst "everyone else", there are a LOT of different takes, but most of them actually take facts, data, and actual football into account. In this camp, there's room for intelligent discussion, debate, opposing views, and general football talk. In your camp, there's just a monkey throwing dung on itself repeatedly.
Not hardly. In my camp, everything is supported by data. My camp actually understands how running Barbay's pro style offense is going to hurt Mississippi State in the long run and how the Air Raid had a lot more potential to elevate the program than this scheme.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE BALANCE TO WIN. How MF hard is that for you to understand? How many times was Mike Leach in the playoffs? ZERO. How many conference championships did he win? ZERO.
There is a cap on the pure Air Raid. Do you not understand that there's a reason NO ONE ELSE runs it? It will NEVER win big. It will get you between 7-8 wins a year and maybe once every 4 years you can win 9-10. Which is exactly our historical average for the last 14 years.
If you're going to continue with this shit for the next 8 months please leave and go get an actual hobby.
I agree that you should strive to achieve balance of touches with each and every receiver on the team.
Tripp McNeely
03-09-2023, 02:02 PM
Not hardly. In my camp, everything is supported by data. My camp actually understands how running Barbay's pro style offense is going to hurt Mississippi State in the long run and how the Air Raid had a lot more potential to elevate the program than this scheme.
Does one individual poster constitute a "camp"?
Does one individual poster constitute a "camp"?
https://twitter.com/ExploitableEdge/status/1633486081021603846?s=20
This is all I see from some of you.
StarkVegasSteve
03-09-2023, 02:06 PM
Does one individual poster constitute a "camp"?
He and Crissy Froyd are both in the same camp. Our former beat reporter who never actually covered the team. Glad we finally moved on from her.
https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1631116048064708608?s=20
Crissy was excellent with her coverage.
https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1630981667773874190?s=20
StarkVegasSteve
03-09-2023, 02:21 PM
https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1631116048064708608?s=20
Crissy was excellent with her coverage.
I think you have to attend the games for it to be considered great coverage. She was taking a paycheck to cover one team and covering another blatantly. If she wanted to cover Tulane then that's fine and you can do it on your time. But don't be employed to cover Mississippi State and never actually cover them. Also there was the hilarity of her Carson Strong to Josh Allen comp.
She is a freelance writer. She can cover whomever she wants to cover. She also does some writing for The Draft Network. She also has the proper respect for Mike Leach and the offense he created.
Todd4State
03-09-2023, 02:28 PM
https://twitter.com/ExploitableEdge/status/1633486081021603846?s=20
This is all I see from some of you.
MSU fans are generally 5-10 years behind the rest of the football world. And thus our football program is outdated.
StarkVegasSteve
03-09-2023, 02:32 PM
She is a freelance writer. She can cover whomever she wants to cover. She also does some writing for The Draft Network. She also has the proper respect for Mike Leach and the offense he created.
No she was not. She was hired to cover Mississippi State. She was fired and is now freelance. And also asshole, everyone has respect for the offense and Leach. Just because we didn't promote your butt buddies doesn't mean we don't respect it. I'm sorry you're so butthurt about it. I'm so sorry for you that I have an idea, since you like the offense so much why don't you go support Tulsa and WKU this year instead of us. And go all in with it. Don't acknowledge MSU in any way, shape, or form. Delete your account here to really hammer the point home.
GoDawgz
03-09-2023, 02:51 PM
It doesn?t matter what State does in anything? people will always gripe. I have learned that from my time of perusing message boards. Our fan base thrives on having its panties in a bunch.
True!
No she was not. She was hired to cover Mississippi State. She was fired and is now freelance. And also asshole, everyone has respect for the offense and Leach. Just because we didn't promote your butt buddies doesn't mean we don't respect it. I'm sorry you're so butthurt about it. I'm so sorry for you that I have an idea, since you like the offense so much why don't you go support Tulsa and WKU this year instead of us. And go all in with it. Don't acknowledge MSU in any way, shape, or form. Delete your account here to really hammer the point home.
The apology thread to me will come later on when you guys realize just how bad this system Barbay runs is going to be. I'll be following WKU for sure, because Drew is a rising star in the Air Raid, and I have no doubts that his offense at WKU will be better than Barbay's at Mississippi State.
https://twitter.com/WKUCoachDrew/status/1633176485296054272?s=20
https://twitter.com/WKUCoachDrew/status/1626660731423756288?s=20
https://twitter.com/WKUCoachDrew/status/1625562652691861507?s=20
#LetEmHang
#Drop70
#SpinThePill
TrapGame
03-09-2023, 03:11 PM
No she was not. She was hired to cover Mississippi State. She was fired and is now freelance. And also asshole, everyone has respect for the offense and Leach. Just because we didn't promote your butt buddies doesn't mean we don't respect it. I'm sorry you're so butthurt about it. I'm so sorry for you that I have an idea, since you like the offense so much why don't you go support Tulsa and WKU this year instead of us. And go all in with it. Don't acknowledge MSU in any way, shape, or form. Delete your account here to really hammer the point home.
How bout since he thinks we aren't going to throw a forward pass ever this year he donates a $100 to charity for every pass we actually throw. Those Benjamins will start adding up after the first few games.
StarkVegasSteve
03-09-2023, 03:18 PM
How bout since he thinks we aren't going to throw a forward pass ever this year he donates a $100 to charity for every pass we actually throw. Those Benjamins will start adding up after the first few games.
No because when he's presented with facts he runs away like a little b****. He'd never hold up his end of that. But he'd make sure to tell us the first time we ran it and didn't gain a first down.
TrapGame
03-09-2023, 03:28 PM
No because when he's presented with facts he runs away like a little b****. He'd never hold up his end of that. But he'd make sure to tell us the first time we ran it and didn't gain a first down.
This is also true.
No because when he's presented with facts he runs away like a little b****. He'd never hold up his end of that. But he'd make sure to tell us the first time we ran it and didn't gain a first down.
Facts? I've yet to see anyone present facts showing that the running game and having an offense build around the running game is more important than and more conducive to winning than throwing the football is.
Goldendawg
03-09-2023, 03:56 PM
He and Crissy Froyd are both in the same camp. Our former beat reporter who never actually covered the team. Glad we finally moved on from her.
I went to Camp Yocona several times. This should qualify me to be OC.******
StarkVegasSteve
03-09-2023, 04:02 PM
Facts? I've yet to see anyone present facts showing that the running game and having an offense build around the running game is more important than and more conducive to winning than throwing the football is.
That is because no one ever said that. We did say that throwing it 50+ times a game is not conducive to winning at an elite level and funny enough we have evidence to back it up.
Johnson85
03-09-2023, 04:06 PM
YOU HAVE TO HAVE BALANCE TO WIN. How MF hard is that for you to understand? How many times was Mike Leach in the playoffs? ZERO. How many conference championships did he win? ZERO.
There is a cap on the pure Air Raid. Do you not understand that there's a reason NO ONE ELSE runs it? It will NEVER win big. It will get you between 7-8 wins a year and maybe once every 4 years you can win 9-10. Which is exactly our historical average for the last 14 years.
If you're going to continue with this shit for the next 8 months please leave and go get an actual hobby.
How many coaches have been to the playoffs? And basically TCU in a weak year is the only non-blue blood to make an appearance?
Saban didn't win anything at Michigan State. Meyer didn't win big before Florida.
Most likely Leach could have and would have won big if he was at a blue blood school. You give him two blue chip receivers and a blue chip RB and the air raid would be hell on wheels. Maybe it's not the optimal offense but it's still more about jimmy's and joe's and execution than it is scheme. Hell, Paul Johnson might could have won a championship if he had ended up at Georgia instead of Ga Tech and the triple option actually is limiting.
That is because no one ever said that. We did say that throwing it 50+ times a game is not conducive to winning at an elite level and funny enough we have evidence to back it up.
So, you think three years of Mike's offense at Mississippi State is enough evidence to show that throwing it 50+ times a game isn't conducive to winning at an elite level, but you ignore all the mid tier talent level teams that have tried to run pro style against the big boys for years upon years in college football and actually believe that gives Mississippi State a better chance of winning at an elite level?
BankerDog
03-09-2023, 04:09 PM
So, you think three years of Mike's offense at Mississippi State is enough evidence to show that throwing it 50+ times a game isn't conducive to winning at an elite level, but you ignore all the mid tier talent level teams that have tried to run pro style against the big boys for years upon years in college football and actually believe that gives Mississippi State a better chance of winning at an elite level?
You both need more work to do in your professional careers..
So tell me, what did WKU do when Tyson Helton was trying to run a pro style spread offense? What happened when he switched to the Air Raid?
StarkVegasSteve
03-09-2023, 04:13 PM
You both need more work to do in your professional careers..
Apparently you do as well.
MrCoachKlein
03-09-2023, 04:20 PM
The apology thread to me will come later on when you guys realize just how bad this system Barbay runs is going to be. I'll be following WKU for sure, because Drew is a rising star in the Air Raid, and I have no doubts that his offense at WKU will be better than Barbay's at Mississippi State.
There won't ever be an apology thread because you keep saying everyone that doesn't want to throw it 99%+ of the time is a 'pound the GD ball meathead'. There's no nuance to any of your linear thinking. Analytics have their place, but they can't be the sole guide of a team. Defenses have adjusted and AR has adjusted to that (Lincoln Riley). You also keep throwing out the same inaccurate and asinine statement that Barbay runs a 'run first, pro style offense'. When the man himself has said numerous times that his objective is to find the best playmakers and get them the ball whether it's running 70 times or passing 70 times. You also refuse to acknowledge that both ZA and KB have said numerous times the AR concepts aren't going away.
That's not even diving into the fact that you think Kelce and Goedert shouldn't be on a football field and it's a waste of a player. TEs can catch and block making it easier to hide intentions or switch from a run to a pass if the defense runs a drop 8 or lines up 8 on the LOS.
You are the textbook definition of a midwit. You have enough information and smarts to know that you do in fact know something but not enough to realize how much you don't actually know.
There won't ever be an apology thread because you keep saying everyone that doesn't want to throw it 99%+ of the time is a 'pound the GD ball meathead'. There's no nuance to any of your linear thinking. Analytics have their place, but they can't be the sole guide of a team. Defenses have adjusted and AR has adjusted to that (Lincoln Riley). You also keep throwing out the same inaccurate and asinine statement that Barbay runs a 'run first, pro style offense'. When the man himself has said numerous times that his objective is to find the best playmakers and get them the ball whether it's running 70 times or passing 70 times. You also refuse to acknowledge that both ZA and KB have said numerous times the AR concepts aren't going away.
That's not even diving into the fact that you think Kelce and Goedert shouldn't be on a football field and it's a waste of a player. TEs can catch and block making it easier to hide intentions or switch from a run to a pass if the defense runs a drop 8 or lines up 8 on the LOS.
You are the textbook definition of a midwit. You have enough information and smarts to know that you do in fact know something but not enough to realize how much you don't actually know.
So, when has Barbay ever run an offense that is based around the passing game?
BankerDog
03-09-2023, 04:40 PM
Apparently you do as well.
Interest is up and the stock market is down
MrCoachKlein
03-09-2023, 04:40 PM
Honestly, they're kind of tough to find. They typically blow up teams running the ball so well that there's no point in passing. When the run doesn't work Barbay seems to switch to passing more. Wow the ability to adjust. Do you know the 1 year he ran CMU's offense he passed it 4 more times per game and ran it 4 less than the guy before and after him? He didn't even have time to setup the personnel to his liking. Those stats are also heavily skewed by FCS teams that he ran all over without resistance.
Also, you have to remember that App St had 2 great returning RBs a plethora of TE/H-backs and lost 2-3 really good WRs from the year before. Like Barbay has said, he alters his scheme to best fit the talent he has.
App St 2022:
Troy: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2022-09-17-appalachian-state.html
TX ST: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2022-10-08-texas-state.html
CMU 2021:
Mizzou: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2021-09-04-missouri.html
LSU: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2021-09-18-louisiana-state.html
FIU: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2021-09-25-central-michigan.html
Miami OH: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2021-10-02-miami-oh.html
N IL: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2021-10-23-central-michigan.html
MrCoachKlein
03-09-2023, 04:41 PM
Interest is up and the stock market is down
You do only get mugged if you go downtown (cities) lol
MrCoachKlein
03-09-2023, 04:44 PM
Since you love analytics so much, can you explain how a guy who hates throwing was rated top in passing efficiency analytics?
According to Matrix Analytical, Barbay ranks No. 1 among active FBS offensive coordinators in career average pass game efficiency. He was one of just two Group of Five play callers in 2022 to produce an Explosive Pass Rate Percentage above 19 percent with a top 35 scoring efficiency offense.
Among FBS offensive coordinators since 2009, Barbay ranks per Matrix Analytical:
Inside the Top 15 percent in Passing Touchdowns Per Attempt
Inside the Top 20 percent in Fewest Interceptions Per Attempt
Inside the Top 25 percent in both QB Rating and QB Efficiency
Inside the Top 30 percent in Yards Per Attempt
Over the last two seasons, Barbay's offenses combined to averaged 448.01 yards per game and rank in the top 20 nationally. His offenses have consistently scored over 30 points per game, achieving that feat 56 percent of the time with a 33.61 points per game average.
This past season, Barbay's prolific offense ranked inside the top 25 nationally in scoring offense (No. 23 – 34.9), passer rating (No. 19 – 155.80), yards per pass attempt (No. 18 – 8.4), yards per play (No. 22 – 6.56), rushing offense (No. 21 – 204.42) and yards per rush (No. 21 – 5.18).
BankerDog
03-09-2023, 04:46 PM
You do only get mugged if you go downtown (cities) lol
I can confirm this true in downtown where I live-which is why I refuse to go out down there.
MrCoachKlein
03-09-2023, 04:47 PM
I can confirm this true in downtown where I live-which is why I refuse to go out down there.
My town of 6,000 is feeling too much like a city for me. Think the Mrs. will have me here for the long haul though.
Since you love analytics so much, can you explain how a guy who hates throwing was rated top in passing efficiency analytics?
According to Matrix Analytical, Barbay ranks No. 1 among active FBS offensive coordinators in career average pass game efficiency. He was one of just two Group of Five play callers in 2022 to produce an Explosive Pass Rate Percentage above 19 percent with a top 35 scoring efficiency offense.
Among FBS offensive coordinators since 2009, Barbay ranks per Matrix Analytical:
Inside the Top 15 percent in Passing Touchdowns Per Attempt
Inside the Top 20 percent in Fewest Interceptions Per Attempt
Inside the Top 25 percent in both QB Rating and QB Efficiency
Inside the Top 30 percent in Yards Per Attempt
Over the last two seasons, Barbay's offenses combined to averaged 448.01 yards per game and rank in the top 20 nationally. His offenses have consistently scored over 30 points per game, achieving that feat 56 percent of the time with a 33.61 points per game average.
This past season, Barbay's prolific offense ranked inside the top 25 nationally in scoring offense (No. 23 – 34.9), passer rating (No. 19 – 155.80), yards per pass attempt (No. 18 – 8.4), yards per play (No. 22 – 6.56), rushing offense (No. 21 – 204.42) and yards per rush (No. 21 – 5.18).
Against Sun Belt and MAC competition, where his teams could out talent the rest of the conference. What did this scheme do when Jim McElwain ran it at Florida?
MrCoachKlein
03-09-2023, 05:18 PM
Against Sun Belt and MAC competition, where his teams could out talent the rest of the conference. What did this scheme do when Jim McElwain ran it at Florida?
With the Sun Belt and MAC talent level offensive players he had...
We'll never know about FL since he didn't coach there. He was director of player development. (I'm sure you knew that, but you were trying to spread disinfo to people that don't.)
With the Sun Belt and MAC talent level offensive players he had...
We'll never know about FL since he didn't coach there. He was director of player development. (I'm sure you knew that, but you were trying to spread disinfo to people that don't.)
I'm just reinforcing the fact that Barbay runs McElwain's system, which is the system that was run at Florida.
MrCoachKlein
03-09-2023, 05:29 PM
I'm just reinforcing the fact that Barbay runs McElwain's system, which is the system that was run at Florida.
So, you're reinforcing your projections onto a scenario where they don't fit?
That and the beating the dead horse are the issue that 99% of the board has with you. Todd would like to see a system closer to what you want, but if you'll notice he hasn't been berated or degraded like you have because he doesn't 1 make false statements like the one you just made and 2 doesn't keep saying the same false statement over and over.
Personally, I would prefer a pass first offense, but this guy hits all of the almighty analytical metrics and is willing to change his scheme to fit his players. Most coaches don't meet those 2 criteria. We aren't getting CML back. Give the guy a chance.
So, you're reinforcing your projections onto a scenario where they don't fit?
That and the beating the dead horse are the issue that 99% of the board has with you. Todd would like to see a system closer to what you want, but if you'll notice he hasn't been berated or degraded like you have because he doesn't 1 make false statements like the one you just made and 2 doesn't keep saying the same false statement over and over.
Personally, I would prefer a pass first offense, but this guy hits all of the almighty analytical metrics and is willing to change his scheme to fit his players. Most coaches don't meet those 2 criteria. We aren't getting CML back. Give the guy a chance.
Well, I'm certainly not going to act like a guy who has coached with Jim for the majority of his coaching career is going to just say "Nah, not running that scheme." Particularly when it looks exactly like every offense McElwain has run from a formation standpoint, emphasis standpoint, and a play calling standpoint.
But we want to avoid saying it's McElwain's system, because McElwain's system is not good. So, we have to act like this is different so we can feel good about ourselves.
Pancho
03-09-2023, 05:53 PM
whew, I'll stick with KB21 is a true cuck.
MrCoachKlein
03-09-2023, 06:13 PM
Well, I'm certainly not going to act like a guy who has coached with Jim for the majority of his coaching career is going to just say "Nah, not running that scheme." Particularly when it looks exactly like every offense McElwain has run from a formation standpoint, emphasis standpoint, and a play calling standpoint.
But we want to avoid saying it's McElwain's system, because McElwain's system is not good. So, we have to act like this is different so we can feel good about ourselves.
Well you can act however you want, but reality won't go along with your false world view. He is going to run a different offense. If you cared about educating yourself you could go listen to the podcast (T&L I think) where he lists the inspirations for his offense. JM was a small part of it.
You're saying he's exactly the same as another coach when there is no proof at all. By this logic Kyle Shanahan's offense is just Kubiaks. In reality, Shanahan learned some things from Kubiak and incorporated it into his offense and now probably has the best offensive scheme in football. Or Joey Freshwater is just running Norm Chow's offense. There's no end to this nonsense, non logical line of thinking.
dawgday166
03-09-2023, 08:45 PM
The players and Rosebowl are always hyped up before the next season starts. Regardless of the coach.
Up front I'll say I don't care what offense we run as long as we get 1st downs and score points. And I also love CZA and think he'll be good as HC. Having said that, CZA doesn't have to rebuild a culture, deal with Covid, he's having a spring practice in his 1st year as head coach, he won't have to play a 10 game all-SEC schedule his 1st year while playing a bunch of true FR, and he won't be missing large percentages of players during games next year or the following year. Leach wasn't cut any slack at all by many on here for all of the adversity he faced in rebuilding the program.
So last year with a bunch of true juniors and some seniors, all with a lot of experience, C34 stated anything less than 10-2 was a unacceptable, even though we played Georgia and Bama at Bama. A lot on here felt the same way. That's understandable with our long and storied tradition of 10 win seasons.
Leach went 8-4 just like Mullen did in 2017 with a similar team. Many on here were pretty unhappy with that and remained convinced Leach's offense would never work in the SEC. Even after Pain has pointed out that Leach's 2021 offense exceeded all of Mullen's offenses except 2014. The 2022 offense was minus a stud 1st round OT and a couple of key WRs from the year before.
This year there is no Georgia, we play Bama at home, and if I'm not mistaken we return all our key players with exception of Sharp and Forbes. So ... Holding CZA and Barbay to same standards as many held Leach to, we should be 11-1 and go to playoff. Probably should win SECW, but could possibly lose to an undefeated or 1 loss Bama maybe. But we do have Bama at home and at very least it should be a very close game if we lose. Anything less than 10-2 is a big flop. I personally ain't interested in excuses about no tight end till summer, installation of an offense, or anything along those lines. Barbay is inheriting about as experienced a team as can be inherited, and has stated he can adapt to any set of personnel. He's inheriting a 4th year starter at QB. From an experience standpoint, this team has more experience than the 2018 team. I'm looking forward to our 1st CFP appearance. I'm pumped.
Jarius
03-09-2023, 09:08 PM
Against Sun Belt and MAC competition, where his teams could out talent the rest of the conference. What did this scheme do when Jim McElwain ran it at Florida?
What did Leach’s scheme do when he played SEC talent? Let me give you a hint. It wasn’t worth a shit.
Cowbell
03-09-2023, 09:12 PM
What did Leach?s scheme do when he played SEC talent? Let me give you a hint. It wasn?t worth a shit.
Because he still ran it too much***should pass 99% of the time***
Cowbell
03-09-2023, 09:14 PM
I'm just reinforcing the fact that Barbay runs McElwain's system, which is the system that was run at Florida.
Barbay runs Barbay's system....it is not the one run at Florida.
NCDawg
03-09-2023, 09:27 PM
whew, I'll stick with KB21 is a true cuck.
He seems pretty confident what he's talking about. Remains to be seen whether or not he is correct. I understand basically what he means. We don't recruit the top players most of the time to go head to head with the big time programs, and the Air Raid somewhat levels the playing field. I don't think we would have beaten Auburn 2 years ago without the Air Raid. Rogers passes were dead on and we came back to win after being down 28-3.
MrCoachKlein
03-09-2023, 09:30 PM
He seems pretty confident what he's talking about. Remains to be seen whether or not he is correct. I understand basically what he means. We don't recruit the top players most of the time to go head to head with the big time programs, and the Air Raid somewhat levels the playing field. I don't think we would have beaten Auburn 2 years ago without the Air Raid. Rogers passes were dead on and we came back to win after being down 28-3.
Dunning-Kruger effect
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Dunning-kruger.png/IMG][IMG]https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FF ile%3ADunning-Kruger-Effect-en.png&psig=AOvVaw2dDx0VZO0iLvYXJayHC76Q&ust=1678502043035000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAwQjRxqFwoTCNjskMOp0P0CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAY
MrCoachKlein
03-09-2023, 10:13 PM
The players and Rosebowl are always hyped up before the next season starts. Regardless of the coach.
Up front I'll say I don't care what offense we run as long as we get 1st downs and score points. And I also love CZA and think he'll be good as HC. Having said that, CZA doesn't have to rebuild a culture, deal with Covid, he's having a spring practice in his 1st year as head coach, he won't have to play a 10 game all-SEC schedule his 1st year while playing a bunch of true FR, and he won't be missing large percentages of players during games next year or the following year. Leach wasn't cut any slack at all by many on here for all of the adversity he faced in rebuilding the program.
So last year with a bunch of true juniors and some seniors, all with a lot of experience, C34 stated anything less than 10-2 was a unacceptable, even though we played Georgia and Bama at Bama. A lot on here felt the same way. That's understandable with our long and storied tradition of 10 win seasons.
Leach went 8-4 just like Mullen did in 2017 with a similar team. Many on here were pretty unhappy with that and remained convinced Leach's offense would never work in the SEC. Even after Pain has pointed out that Leach's 2021 offense exceeded all of Mullen's offenses except 2014. The 2022 offense was minus a stud 1st round OT and a couple of key WRs from the year before.
This year there is no Georgia, we play Bama at home, and if I'm not mistaken we return all our key players with exception of Sharp and Forbes. So ... Holding CZA and Barbay to same standards as many held Leach to, we should be 11-1 and go to playoff. Probably should win SECW, but could possibly lose to an undefeated or 1 loss Bama maybe. But we do have Bama at home and at very least it should be a very close game if we lose. Anything less than 10-2 is a big flop. I personally ain't interested in excuses about no tight end till summer, installation of an offense, or anything along those lines. Barbay is inheriting about as experienced a team as can be inherited, and has stated he can adapt to any set of personnel. He's inheriting a 4th year starter at QB. From an experience standpoint, this team has more experience than the 2018 team. I'm looking forward to our 1st CFP appearance. I'm pumped.
Well said. I agree on everything except the 10-2 and 11-1 stuff. 8/9-4/3 should've been the expectation. We dropped the ball against ky.
Anyway, CML did an awesome job. I'll miss him. I was a huge fan, bought his book and everything.
He said to trust ZA. I love his attitude and energy. He stumped the 'wizard' of offense in LK, won the bowl, kept our team together and held the class leach put together while adding even better pieces. The guy deserves nothing but respect at the moment.
Really Clark?
03-09-2023, 10:15 PM
I'm just reinforcing the fact that Barbay runs McElwain's system, which is the system that was run at Florida.
No he does not. He ran App St system at App St and Mc's system at CMU. His complete offense pulls from a lot of different places. He is a multiple spread guy with pro, AR, RPO, etc. concepts running through his offense.
Why am I even responding to you, you just lie about what he does to keep up this asinine schtick.
Really Clark?
03-09-2023, 10:18 PM
So, when has Barbay ever run an offense that is based around the passing game?
SFA
Homedawg
03-09-2023, 10:21 PM
I'm just reinforcing the fact that Barbay runs McElwain's system, which is the system that was run at Florida.
That's like saying kingsbury and Riley run the CML system. No they don't.
Todd4State
03-09-2023, 11:44 PM
Since you love analytics so much, can you explain how a guy who hates throwing was rated top in passing efficiency analytics?
According to Matrix Analytical, Barbay ranks No. 1 among active FBS offensive coordinators in career average pass game efficiency. He was one of just two Group of Five play callers in 2022 to produce an Explosive Pass Rate Percentage above 19 percent with a top 35 scoring efficiency offense.
Among FBS offensive coordinators since 2009, Barbay ranks per Matrix Analytical:
Inside the Top 15 percent in Passing Touchdowns Per Attempt
Inside the Top 20 percent in Fewest Interceptions Per Attempt
Inside the Top 25 percent in both QB Rating and QB Efficiency
Inside the Top 30 percent in Yards Per Attempt
Over the last two seasons, Barbay's offenses combined to averaged 448.01 yards per game and rank in the top 20 nationally. His offenses have consistently scored over 30 points per game, achieving that feat 56 percent of the time with a 33.61 points per game average.
This past season, Barbay's prolific offense ranked inside the top 25 nationally in scoring offense (No. 23 – 34.9), passer rating (No. 19 – 155.80), yards per pass attempt (No. 18 – 8.4), yards per play (No. 22 – 6.56), rushing offense (No. 21 – 204.42) and yards per rush (No. 21 – 5.18).
Analytically speaking here- his passing is good. BUT the issue is he only has historically passed 38-45% of the time. He would likely be even better if he passed more. Now no- not saying he should pass 70% of the time. 55-60% though could make a huge difference though. The reason I think his passing metrics are because when he does pass it's typically play action which is analytically considered the most effective play in football. And in the early stages what is kind of disappointing to me is he always makes it a point that his offense is about establishing the run when in reality analytics says he would be a lot better- and likely elite- if he passed to set up the run than the other way around.
And by the way the analytics guy whose numbers you are using basically said "small sample size" when asked about Barbay in an interview recently on the Bo Bounds show.
Honestly, they're kind of tough to find. They typically blow up teams running the ball so well that there's no point in passing. When the run doesn't work Barbay seems to switch to passing more. Wow the ability to adjust. Do you know the 1 year he ran CMU's offense he passed it 4 more times per game and ran it 4 less than the guy before and after him? He didn't even have time to setup the personnel to his liking. Those stats are also heavily skewed by FCS teams that he ran all over without resistance.
Also, you have to remember that App St had 2 great returning RBs a plethora of TE/H-backs and lost 2-3 really good WRs from the year before. Like Barbay has said, he alters his scheme to best fit the talent he has.
App St 2022:
Troy: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2022-09-17-appalachian-state.html
TX ST: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2022-10-08-texas-state.html
CMU 2021:
Mizzou: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2021-09-04-missouri.html
LSU: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2021-09-18-louisiana-state.html
FIU: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2021-09-25-central-michigan.html
Miami OH: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2021-10-02-miami-oh.html
N IL: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2021-10-23-central-michigan.html
This is why there is a lot unknown and IMO risk with Barbay. He hasn't really run "his" offense ever. Sure- I'm sure he added some of his touches and whatnot. But at Central Michigan he ran McElwain's offense and at App State they have "their" offense which is very specific to them and highly influenced by their head coach- Shawn Clark. No one really knows what he will do at this point other than from practice reports- 3 and 4 WR sets and some 2 TE sets. So far. IMO IF he meshed Leach's Air Raid concepts with the play action and some more downfield stuff and some exotic plays- halfback pass, reverses, jet sweeps, etc. that he has done our offense could be maximized with the talent we presently have on the roster.
The players and Rosebowl are always hyped up before the next season starts. Regardless of the coach.
Up front I'll say I don't care what offense we run as long as we get 1st downs and score points. And I also love CZA and think he'll be good as HC. Having said that, CZA doesn't have to rebuild a culture, deal with Covid, he's having a spring practice in his 1st year as head coach, he won't have to play a 10 game all-SEC schedule his 1st year while playing a bunch of true FR, and he won't be missing large percentages of players during games next year or the following year. Leach wasn't cut any slack at all by many on here for all of the adversity he faced in rebuilding the program.
So last year with a bunch of true juniors and some seniors, all with a lot of experience, C34 stated anything less than 10-2 was a unacceptable, even though we played Georgia and Bama at Bama. A lot on here felt the same way. That's understandable with our long and storied tradition of 10 win seasons.
Leach went 8-4 just like Mullen did in 2017 with a similar team. Many on here were pretty unhappy with that and remained convinced Leach's offense would never work in the SEC. Even after Pain has pointed out that Leach's 2021 offense exceeded all of Mullen's offenses except 2014. The 2022 offense was minus a stud 1st round OT and a couple of key WRs from the year before.
This year there is no Georgia, we play Bama at home, and if I'm not mistaken we return all our key players with exception of Sharp and Forbes. So ... Holding CZA and Barbay to same standards as many held Leach to, we should be 11-1 and go to playoff. Probably should win SECW, but could possibly lose to an undefeated or 1 loss Bama maybe. But we do have Bama at home and at very least it should be a very close game if we lose. Anything less than 10-2 is a big flop. I personally ain't interested in excuses about no tight end till summer, installation of an offense, or anything along those lines. Barbay is inheriting about as experienced a team as can be inherited, and has stated he can adapt to any set of personnel. He's inheriting a 4th year starter at QB. From an experience standpoint, this team has more experience than the 2018 team. I'm looking forward to our 1st CFP appearance. I'm pumped.
Great post. I think I predicted 9-3 during the regular season and I missed on Kentucky.
What did Leach’s scheme do when he played SEC talent? Let me give you a hint. It wasn’t worth a shit.
No one at MSU has ever had a scheme that consistently lit up bluebloods. We did well against A&M, Auburn, and Arkansas. And if we don't have a plethora of turnovers against Ole Miss we blow them out. The fact that we won with all the turnovers says a lot.
As it is as a MSU fan our realistic expectations should be to have an offense where we compete with bluebloods in a low scoring game and score 30+ on all others. That's because of our talent level.
Todd4State
03-09-2023, 11:49 PM
So tell me, what did WKU do when Tyson Helton was trying to run a pro style spread offense? What happened when he switched to the Air Raid?
I'm going to be 100% honest here.
What WKU does is actually the offense that most MSU fans really want. They may not realize it yet- but it is.
I wish we would have hired Ben Arbuckle. If we're being honest with ourselves he wouldn't be any more- and to me would be much less risky than Barbay. But the fact that Arbuckle is 27 has people spooked.
https://www.footballstudyhall.com/platform/amp/2016/5/6/11606684/the-4-main-schools-of-spread-offense-smashmouth-option-air-raid-pro-style
The good pro-style spread teams are concept based, like the Air Raid, and try to do a few things really well. The bad ones try to mix in spread formations and concepts with pro-style language and approaches, call themselves "multiple," and are inefficient at most everything.
It's very difficult for college teams to actually be really, really good at multiple comprehensive concepts. The amount of practice time and the versatility or roster depth necessary to be balanced between the run and pass is usually beyond most programs. You see this most prominently at tight end.
The best tight ends you've heard of are usually just okay run-blockers and great receivers. Then there are tight ends who are great blockers but aren't typically awesome receivers. The challenge of the pro-style spread is usually how to run the ball effectively from formations with a TE if the TE isn't actually a good run-blocker.
dawgday166
03-10-2023, 02:04 AM
Well said. I agree on everything except the 10-2 and 11-1 stuff. 8/9-4/3 should've been the expectation. We dropped the ball against ky.
Anyway, CML did an awesome job. I'll miss him. I was a huge fan, bought his book and everything.
He said to trust ZA. I love his attitude and energy. He stumped the 'wizard' of offense in LK, won the bowl, kept our team together and held the class leach put together while adding even better pieces. The guy deserves nothing but respect at the moment.
I was a fan too and also bought his book. Unfortunate that we lost him the way we did. Guy never got to retire down to Key West and enjoy that year round.
I have a lot of respect for CZA. Just going along with the same type expectations many on here had for Leach. I actually will be pleasantly surprised with 10 wins next year. 9 should be very doable tho. And if we don't get to 10 or our offense is stumbling/bumbling I won't be on here repeatedly calling for CZA or Barbay to be fired.
Really Clark?
03-10-2023, 08:28 AM
https://www.footballstudyhall.com/platform/amp/2016/5/6/11606684/the-4-main-schools-of-spread-offense-smashmouth-option-air-raid-pro-style
The good pro-style spread teams are concept based, like the Air Raid, and try to do a few things really well. The bad ones try to mix in spread formations and concepts with pro-style language and approaches, call themselves "multiple," and are inefficient at most everything.
Then it's a good thing he doesn't mix pro-style language and approach to his offense.
You completely skipped this part of the article though:
"The modern versions of the Air Raid have tended to mute the wide splits and overly pass-heavy emphasis of the original Air Raid. Run/pass options (RPOs) and dual-threat QBs have been a major boon to the system and allowed teams to get enough out of their running game to be balanced and stop defenses from embracing the same kind of extreme, pass-focus to stop them."
So you the article you site to try prove a point contradicts your stance in that it emphasizes that being more balanced in running the ball and utilizing a running QB has been a boon for the Air Raid.
PMDawg
03-10-2023, 09:30 AM
He seems pretty confident what he's talking about. Remains to be seen whether or not he is correct. I understand basically what he means. We don't recruit the top players most of the time to go head to head with the big time programs, and the Air Raid somewhat levels the playing field. I don't think we would have beaten Auburn 2 years ago without the Air Raid. Rogers passes were dead on and we came back to win after being down 28-3.
Except you can't prove a negative. His stance is that nothing, except the purest form of the AR, will work at MSU going forward. There was 1 coach in the world who ran that pure form. He is no longer available as a coach. He averaged 6.3 wins per season as our coach. So, theoretically, any time any coach drops below 6.3 wins per season, KB will try to say "I told you so". But, it's irrelevant, bc no coach alive would ever run what KB wants, so there is no data to compare against, and there never will be. We will never know if the offense would be better or worse by running the pure AR, but KB has set it up so that he can always claim that it would be better than whatever we happen to be doing at the moment. It's an option that didn't exist, and that can never exist again, yet it's the "option" he wants to compare everything against. It's actually an insane, by the classical definition, stance to have taken. So, good luck to anyone who tries to prove anything on one side or the other.
Again, you are wrong. Western Kentucky ran the Air Raid under Zach Kittley and Ben Arbuckle, who we could have and should have hired. They had the 2nd best passing offense in 2022 at 352.1 yards per game. They had the 2nd most pass attempts at 623. They clearly run a pass first and pass often air raid. Under Kittley, they had the #1 passing offense at 433 yards per game and threw it 697 times.
Georgia Southern runs the Air Raid. They had the 4th best passing offense at 329.9 yards per game. They had the third most passing attempts at 612. Bryan Ellis, their OC, could have been hired.
I just hope Arnett can admit that he made a mistake and dump Barbay after the season to bring back Hollingshead after Drew lights the scoreboard up at WKU this year.
Todd4State
03-10-2023, 09:57 AM
I just hope Arnett can admit that he made a mistake and dump Barbay after the season to bring back Hollingshead after Drew lights the scoreboard up at WKU this year.
My hope is we go 12-0 and someone hires him away as an OC or head coach.
:)
My hope is we go 12-0 and someone hires him away as an OC or head coach.
:)
I really want Arnett to succeed because if he does, it's a credit to Mike Leach and his ability to teach his coaches. However, dumping the Air Raid was a bad misstep.
dawgday166
03-10-2023, 10:03 AM
I really want Arnett to succeed because if he does, it's a credit to Mike Leach and his ability to teach his coaches. However, dumping the Air Raid was a bad misstep.
Ok dude ... we got it!! Just chill will ya.
Tripp McNeely
03-10-2023, 10:10 AM
Nm
Bringing Hollingshead back next year could save him.
Tripp McNeely
03-10-2023, 10:11 AM
I really want Arnett to succeed because if he does, it's a credit to Mike Leach and his ability to teach his coaches. However, dumping the Air Raid was a bad misstep.
No you don't
HancockCountyDog
03-10-2023, 10:20 AM
I really want Arnett to succeed because if he does, it's a credit to Mike Leach and his ability to teach his coaches. However, dumping the Air Raid was a bad misstep.
I need to keep a top ten list of the craziest things you say. This would make the top ten.
If you want to see a true balanced offense, take a look at how the touches were spread among the WKU skill players last year.
Really Clark?
03-10-2023, 02:43 PM
WKU ran the ball more than they threw it last. Right at 50/50 between the two.
WKU ran the ball more than they threw it last. Right at 50/50 between the two.
Huh? WKU threw it 623 times and ran it 414 times.
Really Clark?
03-10-2023, 02:55 PM
Huh? WKU threw it 623 times and ran it 414 times.
My bad, I inadvertently clicked on reception totals instead of passing attempts.
Todd4State
03-10-2023, 03:12 PM
Bringing Hollingshead back next year could save him.
I'm definitely keeping an eye on him. Hollinghead going to WKU to call plays is going to help him grow IMO.
I'm also keeping an eye on Ryan Lindley at San Diego State. He may be more Arnett's speed per say.
I'm definitely keeping an eye on him. Hollinghead going to WKU to call plays is going to help him grow IMO.
I'm also keeping an eye on Ryan Lindley at San Diego State. He may be more Arnett's speed per say.
I'm a big negative on Lindley. Pro Style system. Run oriented coach. No.
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