If we are to salvage our baseball season

[Todd4State]

Foxhall must go now.

Whatever he is doing isn't working. Even worse- we have a rash of "minor injuries" right now. Not including Cade Smith getting ill. Can't pin that on Foxhall. But the rest- yeah. We need an interim pitching coach who can hopefully be a new voice for our pitchers.

I'm not in the bullpen or practice but I suspect what is going on is we are overvaluing velocity over command. I get that you have to throw in the 90's to get a look from MLB but the reality also is so many guys throw hard now that if you don't have command and throw 96 you still aren't going to get a look from MLB. In a nutshell- we're trying to strike everyone out. Sometimes it works because yes our strikeout numbers are among the best in the league but unfortunately that also leads to being too fine at times. Which leads to walks. We're going to be better off sometimes throwing 92 for strikes than we are throwing 96 and praying it's in the zone.

What I do/can see from the computer bleachers is this:

1. Foxhall waits too long to visit the mound.

2. And along with that- he waits too long to make a change.

Those two things go hand in hand of course but the damage is it causes things to snowball. Let's say a relief pitcher walks the first two hitters. At that point the pitching coach should go visit the mound. And probably make a change. But since Foxhall doesn't what typically happens is another walk. Still no mound visit. Then bases clearing double. Then the damage goes beyond that one inning because the pitcher then feels awful because they allowed a lot of damage. And with young pitchers that can sometimes carry over to the next appearance. On top of that since Foxhall only brings in the better pitchers because he wants to "save them for when they're needed" when we're ahead he tends to bring in another pitcher who is struggling in a bad spot and then that pitcher who is low on confidence then struggles and then you can see how this would be an issue to say the least. So these pitchers have no success to build off of because they aren't being set up for success by their pitching coach because he sits on his ass hoping they figure it out with his flawed philosophy to start with. And then they're left out to rot. And because he tries to save pitchers sometimes what happens is we never even use the better ones because we're never in position to use them to start with.

On to defense because I don't want to not mention that since it's an issue. I think some of that is because of the pitching. When you have a staff that is walking the house and putting base runners on it makes it more difficult for the defense to focus and the runners can cause pressure in and of themselves. I think some of the loafing may be frustration from the pitching staff. Lemonis should address that by saying if you loaf I'm pulling you out of the game right then and there in the middle of the inning. That's the best way to send a message to a player doing that. The only other thing we can do is rep defense and go full Ron Washington with it.

Firing the pitching coach in and of itself will get the attention of the players. One thing I'm concerned about is if no changes are made you could see a situation where it essentially becomes the pitchers vs the rest of the team. It's frustrating as hell to score 9 runs and lose because your pitchers can't find the zone. And two seasons of that? With super competitive people that hate losing- that can cause finger pointing. Then you get fights in the clubhouse- verbal and sometimes physical. It's not good. None of these players come to MSU to lose and none of them want to be remembered for being on losing teams.

So hopefully Selmon and the cigar boys will meet with Lemonis and do the right thing for MSU.

[msstate7]

Just let lemonis do whatever he wants to do. Either he gets us in the tourney this year, or fire his ass

[Goldendawg]

Heck, from play by play I have read here, we wait too long to even send someone to the pen when our pitcher is obviously in big trouble.

[Todd4State]

Heck, from play by play I have read here, we wait too long to even send someone to the pen when our pitcher is obviously in big trouble.

I wasn't there but from what I have observed in the past that is very likely.

[The Federalist Engineer]

This comes down to big donors calling Selmon, demanding a change.

Other than Cohen malevolently and publicly ruining Cannizarro's life in 2018, I don't recall many in-season changes in college baseball. Plus, in the Cannizarro situation, Goat and Henderson took the helm. We want Foxhall gone too.

In the 2023 case, Goat can steer the ship. But can you get Jay Powell to manage pitching or a reputable MLB PC between jobs for a Spring (5 month job). Seems a current collegiate PC would not abandon an employer in March.

Seems we got to kick rocks until may.

[Todd4State]

This comes down to big donors calling Selmon, demanding a change.

Other than Cohen malevolently and publicly ruining Cannizarro's life in 2018, I don't recall many in-season changes in college baseball. Plus, in the Cannizarro situation, Goat and Henderson took the helm. We want Foxhall gone too.

In the 2023 case, Goat can steer the ship. But can you get Jay Powell to manage pitching or a reputable MLB PC between jobs for a Spring (5 month job). Seems a current collegiate PC would not abandon an employer in March.

Seems we got to kick rocks until may.

I think Lemonis should get the rest of the season to turn it around. Fire Foxhall now- get Jay Powell or Daron Schoenrock to be the interim PC. Then hire the best PC we can get in the offseason.

But I hope the boosters and Selmon let Lemonis know that this isn't going to fly here. And he better figure out a way to get this group into a regional. Foxhall is the warning shot.

You are right that there aren't many midseason changes and typically I wouldn't demand one happen. But I do think it's warranted in this case.

[maroonmania]

I think Lemonis should get the rest of the season to turn it around. Fire Foxhall now- get Jay Powell or Daron Schoenrock to be the interim PC. Then hire the best PC we can get in the offseason.

But I hope the boosters and Selmon let Lemonis know that this isn't going to fly here. And he better figure out a way to get this group into a regional. Foxhall is the warning shot.

You are right that there aren't many midseason changes and typically I wouldn't demand one happen. But I do think it's warranted in this case.

We couldn't do any worse right now if we didn't have a pitching coach at all.

[MaroonFlounder]

Now that Yntema had a bad outing, they may stick KC or Stinnett back on weekend starter rotation.

This situation could go from bad to worse. We probably will look great vs Valpo and Lipscomb and then get murdered by the SEC.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Todd I did not agree with you on this but after watching it with my own eyes the last two days I have changed my mind. Foxhall does not need to be employed on Monday. Schoenrock or McNickle will do Polk a solid and come be the interim PC for the rest of the year.

[662dawg]

Now that Yntema had a bad outing, they may stick KC or Stinnett back on weekend starter rotation.

This situation could go from bad to worse. We probably will look great vs Valpo and Lipscomb and then get murdered by the SEC.

Lipscomb is going to give us hell if not take 2 out of 3.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Todd I did not agree with you on this but after watching it with my own eyes the last two days I have changed my mind. Foxhall does not need to be employed on Monday. Schoenrock or McNickle will do Polk a solid and come be the interim PC for the rest of the year.

The sooner we go post-Lemonis the better. Polk probably does have connections and coaches to pull in.

My only concern is losing the ability to make a National search later, but MSU can be super clear that the new coaches are interim. This can be done Monday morning at 8 AM.

Polk probably hires three old men like Gene Stephenson, Skip Bertman, and Smoke Laval

[msstate7]

Arizona st is 0-2 this weekend

[WSOPdawg]

Heck, from play by play I have read here, we wait too long to even send someone to the pen when our pitcher is obviously in big trouble.

Agree, why we don't manage our bullpen like a normal bullpen (ie, LHP and RHP matchups, situational pitchers vs certain batters, etc) has driven me crazy for the past few years. I loved LOVED the way Jay Johnson managed his bullpen last year in his first year at LSU. Yeah, it extends the game to 4 hours, but everybody needs to be ready and you've got short pitching stints so you should be able to go multiple times a weekend.

[StarkVegasSteve]

The sooner we go post-Lemonis the better. Polk probably does have connections and coaches to pull in.

My only concern is losing the ability to make a National search later, but MSU can be super clear that the new coaches are interim. This can be done Monday morning at 8 AM.

Polk probably hires three old men like Gene Stephenson, Skip Bertman, and Smoke Laval

I have always been an optics be damned just do it kind of guy but firing Lemonis 12 games into the season might be too much to overcome. I think you wait til the end of the season to make the big move. That gives him the chance to salvage the season and when he inevitably cannot we can fire him.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Agree, why we don't manage our bullpen like a normal bullpen (ie, LHP and RHP matchups, situational pitchers vs certain batters, etc) has driven me crazy for the past few years. I loved LOVED the way Jay Johnson managed his bullpen last year in his first year at LSU. Yeah, it extends the game to 4 hours, but everybody needs to be ready and you've got short pitching stints so you should be able to go multiple times a weekend.

And here is something else, our bullpen has no communication. Sitting down there Friday night and we waited til it was painfully obvious that Siary needed to come out to even get Holcombe up and then our bullpen staff could never get clarity on whether they wanted Holcombe loose or hot. Finally Holcombe just said F it tell them I am hot.

[WSOPdawg]

And here is something else, our bullpen has no communication. Sitting down there Friday night and we waited til it was painfully obvious that Siary needed to come out to even get Holcombe up and then our bullpen staff could never get clarity on whether they wanted Holcombe loose or hot. Finally Holcombe just said F it tell them I am hot.

Yep, we've seen that too many times over the past two years. That pen should always have pitchers "loosening up". It's definitely not managed correctly.

[The Federalist Engineer]

And here is something else, our bullpen has no communication. Sitting down there Friday night and we waited til it was painfully obvious that Siary needed to come out to even get Holcombe up and then our bullpen staff could never get clarity on whether they wanted Holcombe loose or hot. Finally Holcombe just said F it tell them I am hot.

Awful, if this how games are managed, make me think practice is a clown show

[Cowbell]

And here is something else, our bullpen has no communication. Sitting down there Friday night and we waited til it was painfully obvious that Siary needed to come out to even get Holcombe up and then our bullpen staff could never get clarity on whether they wanted Holcombe loose or hot. Finally Holcombe just said F it tell them I am hot.

Holcomb is impressive in person isn't he. Dude looks like he is coming right at you with that long stride off the mound

[Homedawg]

I have always been an optics be damned just do it kind of guy but firing Lemonis 12 games into the season might be too much to overcome. I think you wait til the end of the season to make the big move. That gives him the chance to salvage the season and when he inevitably cannot we can fire him.

Nobody is getting fired mid season.

[Leroy Jenkins]

Nobody is getting fired mid season.

This is correct, unfortunately. We area stuck until the end of the season.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Arizona st is 0-2 this weekend

Devils down got swept, lost today

[Ari Gold]

Nobody is getting fired mid season.

Anyone have Lee Begley’s digits..???

[Homedawg]

Anyone have Lee Begley’s digits..???

Well done

[Lord McBuckethead]

Nobody is getting fired mid season.

It may be correct, but it is stupid. Fox can be replaced inside of a week. Do it now. We need the new guy here changing things up and working for new recruits. We all know Fox is gone at the end of the season. That hurts our relationships with high school players.

[Pancho]

Today, Fox still has no idea who his best arms are or what way to use them.

[cheewgumm]

Our players need urgency.

They need to view these games like a weekend softball tourney, not a pre draft workout.

Fight to win !

[Homedawg]

It may be correct, but it is stupid. Fox can be replaced inside of a week. Do it now. We need the new guy here changing things up and working for new recruits. We all know Fox is gone at the end of the season. That hurts our relationships with high school players.

Ok

[MoreCowbell]

Lemonis is obviously a good xs and os manager but he and the staff really whiffed on pitching recruiting and it is gonna come back to haunt him. We have plenty of great young bats and position players but Lemonis tenure is going to ride on developing the up and comers and getting some stud transfer pitchers in here to bridge the gap.

We will give him this year, as we should, but he is going to have to learn and adjust. He can manage it if we can pony up and get a solid roster. If he does not make the adjustments he needs to then we get someone in here who can.

We are MISS STATE baseball, we need to quit being pu$$ies.

[Pancho]

Poor eval results in not knowing who the actual most effective pitchers are. That was evident when they even considered keeping Stinnett on the roster much less project him as a viable SEC option. Fox has his guys who he wants to be "the man" but he doesn't even know for himself who they are. He sent Dohm in today for a couple innings max and had a "look what I found moment".

[Todd4State]

Nobody is getting fired mid season.

Only because our big money boosters are convinced that making a change midseason won't fix anything. Even though the one time we did make a change early we actually went to Omaha.


Devils down got swept, lost today

The best thing about beating Arizona State is it means that we have beaten every college baseball blue blood at least once since 2016. Which is pretty cool to me. I don't think that they are Arizona State 1977 though.

[Todd4State]

Lemonis is obviously a good xs and os manager but he and the staff really whiffed on pitching recruiting and it is gonna come back to haunt him. We have plenty of great young bats and position players but Lemonis tenure is going to ride on developing the up and comers and getting some stud transfer pitchers in here to bridge the gap.

We will give him this year, as we should, but he is going to have to learn and adjust. He can manage it if we can pony up and get a solid roster. If he does not make the adjustments he needs to then we get someone in here who can.

We are MISS STATE baseball, we need to quit being pu$$ies.

It's not recruiting. Are you going to tell me that MLB scouts, MLB.com, Perfect Game and MSU coaches all were wrong about 7-9 pitchers over the past two years?

Doesn't have anything to do with our pitchers being pussies.

It has everything to do with how they are developed and managed. And that's 100% on coaching.

[AlSwearengen]

I would like to have seen what our pitcher portal “draft board” looked like when we started going after pitchers. I imagine Skenes was at the top and he ended up at lsu. It seems like I remember a pitcher early on that everyone thought for sure we were getting but he ended up at auburn.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Only because our big money boosters are convinced that making a change midseason won't fix anything. Even though the one time we did make a change early we actually went to Omaha.



The best thing about beating Arizona State is it means that we have beaten every college baseball blue blood at least once since 2016. Which is pretty cool to me. I don't think that they are Arizona State 1977 though.

Team makeup is a bit different 2018 vs now. We had multiple alpha leaders on that team. I'm not sure we have one on this team.

[TNDawg35]

I would like to have seen what our pitcher portal “draft board” looked like when we started going after pitchers. I imagine Skenes was at the top and he ended up at lsu. It seems like I remember a pitcher early on that everyone thought for sure we were getting but he ended up at auburn.

I dont know about last year, but off season this year the Ohio State lefty would be high on my list.

[Todd4State]

I would like to have seen what our pitcher portal “draft board” looked like when we started going after pitchers. I imagine Skenes was at the top and he ended up at lsu. It seems like I remember a pitcher early on that everyone thought for sure we were getting but he ended up at auburn.

I think Foxhall's reputation is going to start to give us some problems until we get rid of him.


Team makeup is a bit different 2018 vs now. We had multiple alpha leaders on that team. I'm not sure we have one on this team.

Cohen really valued that in his recruiting. He looked for a certain type of toughness and it helped rebuild our program- Jarrod Parks, Kendall Graveman, Holder, Adam Frazier, Cody Brown, Stovall, Mangum, Elijah MacNamee, Ethan Small, Tanner Allen, Rowdey, Landon Sims, and others.

I'm not sure that toughness is our main issue. I don't think our pitchers are being put in a position to succeed and the team leaders can't really do a lot about that. Like Hancock can't tell the bullpen to get someone ready and make a pitching change. Tanner Allen or Mangum can't coach or develop pitching mechanics. Yelling at each other in the dugout isn't going to fix anything. The alphas on the team can't demand that Lemonis make Loo a weekend starter. Leadership only goes so far. Heck- they had good leadership at the Alamo and Custer helped win some battles in the Civil War. There are limits.

[InTheIttaBenaHotSun]

Team makeup is a bit different 2018 vs now. We had multiple alpha leaders on that team. I'm not sure we have one on this team.

We didn't have any last season and it looks like we're void of any this season.....They play a big part in a teams identity and not having a couple has hurt us.