A Way Too Early Look At What May Be Out There

[StarkVegasSteve]

So today was not fun. Saturday was not fun. Last year was not fun. And the same problem is the cause for all of them. So let's just for a moment say this thing gets way sideways and firing Foxhall isn't enough to save Lemonis. Who do you go with? I think it's broken into 3-4 Tiers

Tier A: Tim Corbin

Tier B: 1. Tony Vittello
2. Elliot Avent
3. Butch
4. Cliff Godwin
5. Brian O' Conner
6. Skip Johnson
7. Scott Forbes
8. Scott Strickin (UGA HC)
9. Tom Walter
10. Eric Bakich

Tier C: 1. Jake Gautreau
2. Jordan Bischell
3. Dan Heefner
4. Christian Ostrander
5. Rob Vaughn

Tier D: 1. Nate Thompson
2. Josh Elander
3. Scott Brown
4. Nate Yeskie

[The Federalist Engineer]

No Tadlock and is it not Tommy Raffo's turn? - adding a little color to your list with the chances of getting the coach if offered. Some guys I just don't know, like the Maryland coach. The WF coach is also totally unknown to me. I wonder if O'Sullivan is in play, if he does not win the NC at Florida this year.

Tier A: Tim Corbin - Vandy 2% chance (National Champ x 2)

Tier B: 1. Tony Vittello - Tennessee 5% chance
2. Elliot Avent - NC State 25%
3. Butch - Auburn 67%
4. Cliff Godwin - ECU 50%
5. Brian O' Conner - UVA 25% (National Champ)
6. Skip Johnson - Oklahoma 50% (Bianco's Boy)
7. Scott Forbes - UNC
8. Scott Strickin (UGA HC) - he's out of a job in May, I hear - 100%
9. Tom Walter - Wake Forest
10. Eric Bakich - Clemson 1%

Tier C: 1. Jake Gautreau - 100%
2. Jordan Bischell - Central Michigan 100%
3. Dan Heefner - Dallas Baptist 50%
4. Christian Ostrander - USM PC - 100%
5. Rob Vaughn - Maryland - Young coach

Tier D: 1. Nate Thompson - Novo Cannizarro- Arkansas HC and Recruiter - 100%
2. Josh Elander - Tennessee Recruiter - ?
3. Scott Brown - Vandy PC -?
4. Nate Yeskie - TAM - Legendary PC -?

[StarkVegasSteve]

No Tadlock and is it not Tommy Raffo's turn? - adding a little color to your list with the chances of getting the coach if offered. Some guys I just don't know, like the Maryland coach. The WF coach is also totally unknown to me. I wonder if O'Sullivan is in play, if he does not win the NC at Florida this year.

Tier A: Tim Corbin - Vandy 2% chance (National Champ x 2)

Tier B: 1. Tony Vittello - Tennessee 5% chance
2. Elliot Avent - NC State 25%
3. Butch - Auburn 67%
4. Cliff Godwin - ECU 50%
5. Brian O' Conner - UVA 25% (National Champ)
6. Skip Johnson - Oklahoma 50% (Bianco's Boy)
7. Scott Forbes - UNC
8. Scott Strickin (UGA HC) - he's out of a job in May, I hear - 100%
9. Tom Walter - Wake Forest
10. Eric Bakich - Clemson 1%

Tier C: 1. Jake Gautreau - 100%
2. Jordan Bischell - Central Michigan 100%
3. Dan Heefner - Dallas Baptist 50%
4. Christian Ostrander - USM PC - 100%
5. Rob Vaughn - Maryland - Young coach

Tier D: 1. Nate Thompson - Novo Cannizarro- Arkansas HC and Recruiter - 100%
2. Josh Elander - Tennessee Recruiter - ?
3. Scott Brown - Vandy PC -?
4. Nate Yeskie - TAM - Legendary PC -?

I considered adding Tadlock and O' Sullivan. They'd probably both be in Tier A with Corbin, but Tadlock has a lifetime contract at TTU and O'Sullivan still hates us for not interviewing him 08. I probably would be a bit higher on Elliot Avent. He's been very complimentary of both our program and facilities in the past few years. Corbin is probably closer to 50%. But the problem with him is that I don't know how much longer he wants to do it. He's 61 and will be 62 before the start of the 24 season. If money was no option Vitello would be my choice. I mean he's 107-27 in the last two years. He's a dynamite recruiter and he's lightning rod. He'd have 15K at opening weekend next year.

[The Federalist Engineer]

I considered adding Tadlock and O' Sullivan. They'd probably both be in Tier A with Corbin, but Tadlock has a lifetime contract at TTU and O'Sullivan still hates us for not interviewing him 08. I probably would be a bit higher on Elliot Avent. He's been very complimentary of both our program and facilities in the past few years. Corbin is probably closer to 50%. But the problem with him is that I don't know how much longer he wants to do it. He's 61 and will be 62 before the start of the 24 season. If money was no option Vitello would be my choice. I mean he's 107-27 in the last two years. He's a dynamite recruiter and he's lightning rod. He'd have 15K at opening weekend next year.

I think Vitello would scare the Yips right out of the pitchers. Since we are not paying to much for a Football Coach or a Basketball Coach or a WBC, you get get Vitello and Yeskie.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdXE2bOaUAA7ZFs?format=jpg&name=900x900

[SpaceBully]

So today was not fun. Saturday was not fun. Last year was not fun. And the same problem is the cause for all of them. So let's just for a moment say this thing gets way sideways and firing Foxhall isn't enough to save Lemonis. Who do you go with? I think it's broken into 3-4 Tiers

Tier A: Tim Corbin

Tier B: 1. Tony Vittello
2. Elliot Avent
3. Butch
4. Cliff Godwin
5. Brian O' Conner
6. Skip Johnson
7. Scott Forbes
8. Scott Strickin (UGA HC)
9. Tom Walter
10. Eric Bakich

Tier C: 1. Jake Gautreau
2. Jordan Bischell
3. Dan Heefner
4. Christian Ostrander
5. Rob Vaughn

Tier D: 1. Nate Thompson
2. Josh Elander
3. Scott Brown
4. Nate Yeskie

...he ain't going anywhere. He's the highest paid coach in D1 baseball plus has all the scholly advantages which gives him a steady supply of 4 and 5 star type talent. He'll retire at Vandy.

[TNDawg35]

I would throw everything we had at Vitello, but I would fully expect it to be a “National search” then end up promoting Gotro

[AlSwearengen]

Tennessee would match and exceed what we would pay Vitello AND up their NIL to considerably more than what we can offer.

[StarkVegasSteve]

...he ain't going anywhere. He's the highest paid coach in D1 baseball plus has all the scholly advantages which gives him a steady supply of 4 and 5 star type talent. He'll retire at Vandy.

Scholarship advantages do not matter anymore. NIL balances that out. There are people around the sport that believe if he is going to leave he will do it in the next year or two.

It also becomes a how much are you willing to pay scenario. With Cohen you knew he would sacrifice everything to be elite at baseball. What will the mindset of Selmon be in regards to that would be something interesting to watch.

[Saltydog]

Scholarship advantages do not matter anymore. NIL balances that out. There are people around the sport that believe if he is going to leave he will do it in the next year or two.

It also becomes a how much are you willing to pay scenario. With Cohen you knew he would sacrifice everything to be elite at baseball. What will the mindset of Selmon be in regards to that would be something interesting to watch.

Not if you don't have enough NIL money to cover everyone's tuition.....their players get their tuition and the nil money goes straight in their pockets.....

[BankerDog]

Can any of them realize that their freshman 3 hole hitter needs to be moved down in a lineup? Also what are their thoughts on a 3 year starter at SS who can?t hit (hitting .073 right now) and isn?t as good as advertised in the field continuing to play?

[Saltydog]

I just don't see him being fired, even if we miss the SECT and finish last in the West, which right now both seem likely. Now, his seat will be scorching HOT but I think he'll get another year. We do have some talented young kids and that may be his only salvation.

[CoachT14]

So today was not fun. Saturday was not fun. Last year was not fun. And the same problem is the cause for all of them. So let's just for a moment say this thing gets way sideways and firing Foxhall isn't enough to save Lemonis. Who do you go with? I think it's broken into 3-4 Tiers

Tier A: Tim Corbin

Tier B: 1. Tony Vittello
2. Elliot Avent
3. Butch
4. Cliff Godwin
5. Brian O' Conner
6. Skip Johnson
7. Scott Forbes
8. Scott Strickin (UGA HC)
9. Tom Walter
10. Eric Bakich

Tier C: 1. Jake Gautreau
2. Jordan Bischell
3. Dan Heefner
4. Christian Ostrander
5. Rob Vaughn

Tier D: 1. Nate Thompson
2. Josh Elander
3. Scott Brown
4. Nate Yeskie

If Skip Johnson, Tom Walter, Scott Stricklin, and Scott Forbes are in Tier B, Heefner belongs in Tier B. He's better than all of them. You could make the argument Vaughn is as well.

[Saltydog]

If Skip Johnson, Tom Walter, Scott Stricklin, and Scott Forbes are in Tier B, Heefner belongs in Tier B. He's better than all of them. You could make the argument Vaughn is as well.

here's another name that should be on the list somewhere probably in Tier C or D and that's Lane Burroughs. He's done a heck'uva good job at La Tech.

[Ari Gold]

There should never be a tier C or D for a head baseball coach here if you have a AD with a pulse

[Todd4State]

I just don't see him being fired, even if we miss the SECT and finish last in the West, which right now both seem likely. Now, his seat will be scorching HOT but I think he'll get another year. We do have some talented young kids and that may be his only salvation.

I agree. For now at least. Get a new pitching coach and see what 2024 holds.

[Johnson85]

I just don't see him being fired, even if we miss the SECT and finish last in the West, which right now both seem likely. Now, his seat will be scorching HOT but I think he'll get another year. We do have some talented young kids and that may be his only salvation.

Depends. The only real problem we should have this year is pitching. Maybe catcher based on the freshman not being ready. I still expect our offense and defense to be solid to good this year. If they are, and we just suck at pitching, I think a new pitching coach is probably sufficient. If what we have seen so far is actually who this team is, then I don't think you can hang your hat on recruiting.

[Mjoelner34]

There should never be a tier C or D for a head baseball coach here if you have a AD with a pulse

The truest words that have ever been spoken on Elitedawgs.

[StarkVegasSteve]

There should never be a tier C or D for a head baseball coach here if you have a AD with a pulse

Oh 1000%. I said the other night the search, if Selmon is competent, wouldn't get past Tier B. And truthfully some of those Tier C guys are probably Tier B. Like Jake will get an interview for the Head job. If Heefner showed interest, then he would probably get an interview.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I agree. For now at least. Get a new pitching coach and see what 2024 holds.


Why are you married to keeping Lemonis? I don't believe changing pitching coaches is going to do a damn bit of difference. This is a talent problem not a development problem, or at least not the development problems you expect at the high D1 Level. I mean we're having to teach guys how to throw strikes. Also, if we go the fire Foxhall direction which I unfortunately think is what will happen, what coach would sign on for one year knowing that Lemonis is basically a lame duck.

[sandjunky]

Only way for gotro
Bring Cannizzaro back as hitting coach - dude knows hitting and can identify talent - made rooker a 1st rounder
Go find the best pitching coach that understands the metrics and development (like a treadathletics or driveline) - you can take an 17yr old that can pitch at 87-90 and turn him into 94-96 with proper development

[KOdawg1]

Lemonis is probably safe this year. Foxhall however needs to go

[StarkVegasSteve]

Only way for gotro
Bring Cannizzaro back as hitting coach - dude knows hitting and can identify talent - made rooker a 1st rounder
Go find the best pitching coach that understands the metrics and development (like a treadathletics or driveline) - you can take an 17yr old that can pitch at 87-90 and turn him into 94-96 with proper development

Just bring Cannizarro back. Bring back the boxing gloves, bring back the shoulder pads, and bring back the damn fight. Give me someone who tells our players to step in there and throw punches. I'm sick of lard ass sitting over there on a damn bucket picking his nose. Cann dumped all our bats on the ground to try to "wake them up" in the Hattiesburg Regional. Lemonis would break a sweat getting up and walking to the bats.

[CaptainObvious]

Lemonis is probably safe this year. Foxhall however needs to go

You may be right about him being safe in Selmon?s eyes. But I guarantee you 80% of the fans will want him gone if this year ends like last year.

Not only should Mississippi State EVER finish last in the SEC, they should NEVER EVER be picked last by coaches and media. Burn me once (2022), shame on you. Burn me twice (2022 & 2023) shame on me for giving any support.

[Really Clark?]

Only way for gotro
Bring Cannizzaro back as hitting coach - dude knows hitting and can identify talent - made rooker a 1st rounder
Go find the best pitching coach that understands the metrics and development (like a treadathletics or driveline) - you can take an 17yr old that can pitch at 87-90 and turn him into 94-96 with proper development

We don't need developmental pitchers who might can get to 94-96, we need 3 guys who can sit 92 and spot their FB at any point in the game in any 9 hole you call and a serviceable breaking ball that they can throw at 2 depths. That's what our staff is missing not mid 90's possible development

[Commercecomet24]

We don't need developmental pitchers who might can get to 94-96, we need 3 guys who can sit 92 and spot their FB at any point in the game in any 9 hole you call and a serviceable breaking ball that they can throw at 2 depths. That's what our staff is missing not mid 90's possible development

This is what's being lost in baseball. Everyone is so caught up in velo and spin rate they aren't teaching pitchers how to pitch. Everyone wants high velo. Young pitchers should be concentraing on how to locate fastballs, in, out, up, down before they even worry about anything else. Heck you got 8 year olds going to training facilities to increase their velo! Just dang! Learn how to pitch first!

[StarkVegasSteve]

This is what's being lost in baseball. Everyone is so caught up in velo and spin rate they aren't teaching pitchers how to pitch. Everyone wants high velo. Young pitchers should be concentraing on how to locate fastballs, in, out, up, down before they even worry about anything else. Heck you got 8 year olds going to training facilities to increase their velo! Just dang! Learn how to pitch first!

Greg Maddux would dominate baseball in today's game. Elite locator with a 5 pitch mix that he had elite control over.

[Commercecomet24]

Greg Maddux would dominate baseball in today's game. Elite locator with a 5 pitch mix that he had elite control over.

Yes he would! Especially with all these over aggressive hitters who focus on nothing but launch angle. He would have them standing on their heads!

[Randolph Dupree]

Only way for gotro
Bring Cannizzaro back as hitting coach - dude knows hitting and can identify talent - made rooker a 1st rounder
Go find the best pitching coach that understands the metrics and development (like a treadathletics or driveline) - you can take an 17yr old that can pitch at 87-90 and turn him into 94-96 with proper development

Rooker made Rooker not Cannizzaro. Rook spent a lot of time, out in Dallas I believe, working on his swing and approach during the offseason. That wasn't Cannizzaro. Cann could recruit but we were going to have issues with him long term. There's a reason he isn't coaching anywhere and it doesn't have to do with infidelity. Plenty of great coaches cheat on their wives and all is forgiven if they're good enough.

Really like Butch and Lane has done a great job at Tech. Not necessarily splash hires but both would do very well here. Anybody know why Yeski hasn't gotten a shot? He's been elite for a while now so it seems like someone would have given him a chance by now.

[Commercecomet24]

Rooker made Rooker not Cannizzaro. Rook spent a lot of time, out in Dallas I believe, working on his swing and approach during the offseason. That wasn't Cannizzaro. Cann could recruit but we were going to have issues with him long term. There's a reason he isn't coaching anywhere and it doesn't have to do with infidelity. Plenty of great coaches cheat on their wives and all is forgiven if they're good enough.

Really like Butch and Lane has done a great job at Tech. Not necessarily splash hires but both would do very well here. Anybody know why Yeski hasn't gotten a shot? He's been elite for a while now so it seems like someone would have given him a chance by now.

Yeah Cann was even let go from his high school job last year. Dude has issues.

[Coursesuper]

delete

[Coursesuper]

This is what's being lost in baseball. Everyone is so caught up in velo and spin rate they aren't teaching pitchers how to pitch. Everyone wants high velo. Young pitchers should be concentraing on how to locate fastballs, in, out, up, down before they even worry about anything else. Heck you got 8 year olds going to training facilities to increase their velo! Just dang! Learn how to pitch first!

Amen to this, location and a change up before anything else.

[Commercecomet24]

Amen to this, location and a change up before anything else.

I've seen to many kids throwing breaking balls at to young an age when they can't even spot a fastball. Heck I've had kids as young as 9 that I've been able to teach how to spot a fastball in any zone i called with consistency. It takes work and patience by a coach and player and most don't want to dedicate the time. They just want velo and spin!

[StarkVegasSteve]

Yeah Cann was even let go from his high school job last year. Dude has issues.

No clue on truth of it, but I heard that was because he was not going to play daddy ball and some of the parents of the seniors he benched got mad and one of them confronted him in the parking lot and it got out of hand on both sides.

[sandjunky]

Heck you got 8 year olds going to training facilities to increase their velo! Just dang! Learn how to pitch first!

I don?t have a problem with training for velo but you have to also work on control and the art of pitching - not just be robotic

my 2 boys train for both velo and control. For example, my 11yr old at his last pen was 33/40 on strikes - his pitching coach is 71 (pitched in reds org) - they talk after about the ?why? and other thought processes

[Commercecomet24]

I don?t have a problem with training for velo but you have to also work on control and the art of pitching - not just be robotic

my 2 boys train for both velo and control. For example, my 11yr old at his last pen was 33/40 on strikes - his pitching coach is 71 (pitched in reds org) - they talk after about the ?why? and other thought processes

Velo training obviously has its place, but to many place the emphasis on only velo, and honestly as I had one mlb pitching coach tell me, velo training before they hit puberty really doesn't help much.

It sounds like you have your boys in with the right kind of teacher.

[sandjunky]

Yeah Cann was even let go from his high school job last year. Dude has issues.

Because of daddy ball - same thing happened to my hs coach - he cut a school board members junior son and when his contract came up it wasn?t renewed

[gtowndawg]

Greg Maddux would dominate baseball in today's game. Elite locator with a 5 pitch mix that he had elite control over.

In all fairness he dominated in his day of baseball too.

[Todd4State]

Why are you married to keeping Lemonis? I don't believe changing pitching coaches is going to do a damn bit of difference. This is a talent problem not a development problem, or at least not the development problems you expect at the high D1 Level. I mean we're having to teach guys how to throw strikes. Also, if we go the fire Foxhall direction which I unfortunately think is what will happen, what coach would sign on for one year knowing that Lemonis is basically a lame duck.

I'm not married to keeping him. I just don't see him as the main problem. Which is why I also said "for now at least". It's about being fair and logical. I want to give him a chance to fix this before I throw him out.

We have talent. They're just mostly freshmen unfortunately for this year.

Getting a new pitching coach doesn't mean that Lemonis is a lame duck at all.

[Todd4State]

Because of daddy ball - same thing happened to my hs coach - he cut a school board members junior son and when his contract came up it wasn?t renewed

Cann wasn't winning at Holy Cross either. Their record was really bad.

Politics will always exist in baseball. That's just the way it is. Good thing that there are courtesy runners in Mississippi so you can stick the school boards kid out there without hurting the team too much.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Cann wasn't winning at Holy Cross either. Their record was really bad.

Politics will always exist in baseball. That's just the way it is. Good thing that there are courtesy runners in Mississippi so you can stick the school boards kid out there without hurting the team too much.

Well I think he was at a private school and if they're anything like some of the ones in Mississippi then politics runs the dang program. However, college coaches have trouble coaching at that level. They don't have patience to teach fundamentals. Especially guys like Cann because everything came naturally to him and he went straight into coaching at LSU and MSU where he was around the same kind of athletes.

[Todd4State]

Well I think he was at a private school and if they're anything like some of the ones in Mississippi then politics runs the dang program. However, college coaches have trouble coaching at that level. They don't have patience to teach fundamentals. Especially guys like Cann because everything came naturally to him and he went straight into coaching at LSU and MSU where he was around the same kind of athletes.

Catholic school- essentially the equivalent of a very large private school in Mississippi.

Baseball in NOLA is really no different than anywhere else. Players play travel ball and that's where they learn fundamentals. High school baseball is to me an extension of that - but it's certainly not where players learn from exclusively as far as fundamentals. The best thing about high school baseball in general to me is the fact that it is much higher profile than travel ball. People follow high school sports on a local level. It's a good experience for the players to have to deal with fans- high school kids can be cruel to each other and I'm sure there are kids that tell baseball players that they suck and things like that. They get their ass kissed too. Get to play in front of bigger crowds and more meaningful games. To me that's the biggest benefit of high school ball- not really learning the fundamentals of the game so much anymore. Players have to learn how to perform in those kinds of environments as they move up.

Cann is a good baseball mind and a great hitting coach. WHEN he is focused on that. That's his problem. He loves attention and himself and can't get out of his own way and that superscedes his actual job- coaching the team.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Because of daddy ball - same thing happened to my hs coach - he cut a school board members junior son and when his contract came up it wasn?t renewed

Cann needs a college job like South Alabama or USM, win there and go make some noise in a regional in Coral Gables or College Station. Knock Out the hosts and play in a Super. Then he can be a SEC or ACC coach. He needs to do that soon.

He is a gifted coach.

People mature and change - the 15, 20, 30, and 40 year old version of a person will be drastically different. Even Lane Kiffin is hugely different, I don't hate the guy. He is different and has grown as a person.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Greg Maddux would dominate baseball in today's game. Elite locator with a 5 pitch mix that he had elite control over.

I read in a Braves scouting write up that scouts greatly value "fluidity" and "ease of motion" in drafting players. The high effort, max effort, and funky motion kids are ones they allow for college or draft late.

Effortless Power and Natural Motion kids are huge prizes. Personally, I have seen natural motion guys dominate in every sport they play. They can just watch people play volleyball and then quickly dominate. For data nerds and analytics engineers, the "effort" in biomechanics is not an input they can use.

Maddux was a 2nd Rounder from HS. He probably did not throw 85 as a HS senior.

[Really Clark?]

I read in a Braves scouting write up that scouts greatly value "fluidity" and "ease of motion" in drafting players. The high effort, max effort, and funky motion kids are ones they allow for college or draft late.

Effortless Power and Natural Motion kids are huge prizes. Personally, I have seen natural motion guys dominate in every sport they play. They can just watch people play volleyball and then quickly dominate. For data nerds and analytics engineers, the "effort" in biomechanics is not an input they can use.

Maddux was a 2nd Rounder from HS. He probably did not throw 85 as a HS senior.

Maddux out of HS threw 86-89 on his fastball with great late movement. His curveball was major league ready coming out of HS and graded as high as anyones coming out of HS. His frame was his biggest knock, several scouts thought if he was more physically imposing, he would have been the top player in the draft. Most scouts had a 1st round grade on him but clubs were not sold on him from a size perspective.