Hey Commerce

[Cowbell]

What's your take on our baseball team. You coach. You know some of these kids. You understand the game as good as anyone here. It looks like to me this team lacks toughness and is all about the image. What makes it stand out is the only tough kids we seem to have are the transfers - Larry and Chance (walk-on) Nixon and Dohm.

[Commercecomet24]

I don't believe it's a toughness issue. The kids seem to be playing hard. We have the talent on the roster we're just not getting it done right now. Pitchers are walking too many and getting behind in counts way too often and our defense has been beyond disappointing when it looked to be a strength coming into the season. Baseball is a long season and things can change on a dime. Baseball has ebbs and flows you just want to keep the ebbs to a minimum. I haven't given up on the season but there's definitely some issues that have to be fixed for us to have any kind of season and it has to start on the mound with pitchers throwing strikes and getting ahead in counts. It's kinda scary because they're not missing by an inch they're missing big. I believe the defense will show up and we're gonna score runs but everything starts and ends on that mound. I know if i was the coach and this was my team I wouldn't be sleeping very well tonight! Need to come out and show some fire tomorrow night and then win the series aginst asu. That would make me feel a little better.

[Cowbell]

I don't believe it's a toughness issue. The kids seem to be playing hard. We have the talent on the roster we're just not getting it done right now. Pitchers are walking too many and getting behind in counts way too often and our defense has been beyond disappointing when it looked to be a strength coming into the season. Baseball is a long season and things can change on a dime. Baseball has ebbs and flows you just want to keep the ebbs to a minimum. I haven't given up on the season but there's definitely some issues that have to be fixed for us to have any kind of season and it has to start on the mound with pitchers throwing strikes and getting ahead in counts. It's kinda scary because they're not missing by an inch they're missing big. I believe the defense will show up and we're gonna score runs but everything starts and ends on that mound. I know if i was the coach and this was my team I wouldn't be sleeping very well tonight! Need to come out and show some fire tomorrow night and then win the series aginst asu. That would make me feel a little better.


Thanks for the insight - Are you greatly surprised by what you've seen so far?

[EdwardDrayton]

What do we mean by 'toughness'. How do we know it when we see it. One example that I would characterize as toughness is the drive to push beyond the pain and suffering of intense physical exertion more so than what others are willing or capable of doing. It's what propelled my son to a 400m state champion.

What other examples help to understand how 'toughness' is manifested.

PS just an added note; my son could push himself so hard in training and competition that he would be physically ill. Now in his life endeavors I sometimes ask him if he's giving the 'trash can' effort. LOL!

[Commercecomet24]

Thanks for the insight - Are you greatly surprised by what you've seen so far?

You're welcome just my 2 cents worth and there's so many good baseball people on the board I'm sure they'll have some good insights as well.Really surprised at the defense and lack of strikes thrown more than anything.

[StarkVegasSteve]

You're welcome just my 2 cents worth and there's so many good baseball people on the board I'm sure they'll have some good insights as well.Really surprised at the defense and lack of strikes thrown more than anything.

What do you see as our main problem on the mound? Do you think it's more of not having confidence in the pitches that are being called or worrying too much about hitting the spot and not just throwing strikes

[Commercecomet24]

What do you see as our main problem on the mound? Do you think it's more of not having confidence in the pitches that are being called or worrying too much about hitting the spot and not just throwing strikes

Pitchers are so flaky they're like freaking kickers! I think it's a case by case basis. It looks like some don't trust their stuff, some are nibbling to much and then it snowballs on them(see kc hunt), and some are trying to be to fine(see Davis),some are still young and learning(Holcombe and Loftin). And we tend to when we get ahead start calling pitches off the plate that wind up being non competitive. I prefer my pitchers to attack when ahead in the count. To me a fastball just off the plate on 0-2 is way better than bouncing a breaking ball, but that's just me.Look at Gartman. He's not overpowering but attacks hitters and knows how to pitch. We need more of that. Brock Tapper came in tonight and did a good job. I watched him pitch last year and he's a kid that impressed me with his mound presence and I thinks he's gonna be pretty good. We've got some arms but they gotta come on and compete(help them please fox!)

[StarkVegasSteve]

Pitchers are so flaky they're like freaking kickers! I think it's a case by case basis. It looks like some don't trust their stuff, some are nibbling to much and then it snowballs on them(see kc hunt), and some are trying to be to fine(see Davis),some are still young and learning(Holcombe and Loftin). And we tend to when we get ahead start calling pitches off the plate that wind up being non competitive. I prefer my pitchers to attack when ahead in the count. To me a fastball just off the plate on 0-2 is way better than bouncing a breaking ball, but that's just me.Look at Gartman. He's not overpowering but attacks hitters and knows how to pitch. We need more of that. Brock Tapper came in tonight and did a good job. I watched him pitch last year and he's a kid that impressed me with his mound presence and I thinks he's gonna be pretty good. We've got some arms but they gotta come on and compete(help them please fox!)

I'm scared for guys like Cijntje and Loftin to get around Foxhall. He has made one pitcher better in his tenure, Liebelt. I don't know that he's made any markedly worse, I mean Cerrantola was the same pitcher his freshman year as he was in 2021. Bednar and Sims were the same way. They came in and nothing changed. They were just that good. Same with JT. Small and Cole found stuff under Henderson that made them better.

[Commercecomet24]

I'm scared for guys like Cijntje and Loftin to get around Foxhall. He has made one pitcher better in his tenure, Liebelt. I don't know that he's made any markedly worse, I mean Cerrantola was the same pitcher his freshman year as he was in 2021. Bednar and Sims were the same way. They came in and nothing changed. They were just that good. Same with JT. Small and Cole found stuff under Henderson that made them better.

I want to see our pitchers be more aggressive. Attack hitters pound the strike zone and we've got guys that do that we just need more doing it.

[Todd4State]

I don't believe it's a toughness issue. The kids seem to be playing hard. We have the talent on the roster we're just not getting it done right now. Pitchers are walking too many and getting behind in counts way too often and our defense has been beyond disappointing when it looked to be a strength coming into the season. Baseball is a long season and things can change on a dime. Baseball has ebbs and flows you just want to keep the ebbs to a minimum. I haven't given up on the season but there's definitely some issues that have to be fixed for us to have any kind of season and it has to start on the mound with pitchers throwing strikes and getting ahead in counts. It's kinda scary because they're not missing by an inch they're missing big. I believe the defense will show up and we're gonna score runs but everything starts and ends on that mound. I know if i was the coach and this was my team I wouldn't be sleeping very well tonight! Need to come out and show some fire tomorrow night and then win the series aginst asu. That would make me feel a little better.

There is a lot of pressure that goes with playing at MSU in baseball. Our standard is a National Championship and the minimum is a SR.

That combined with what happened last season I think our guys are trying to do too much instead of just making the play. Speaking more specifically on our defense. It seems like we have a lot of problems with communication out there too. Balls dropping in, Hines going after balls the second baseman should be getting. Stuff like that sometimes.

I think the pitching is more on Foxhall. That kind of stuff has been going on for awhile now. I think he needs to be a lot more proactive with our staff. Just lets guys rot sometimes for no apparent reason. Then he lets some guys have a long leash while others they have one bad outing and then you wonder if they are even on the team anymore. His pitch calling is very predictable and that only really works if you have command and you have Randy Johnson type stuff. The development or lack thereof has been duly noted. Barring a major turnaround I think we're going to have to part ways with him. I don't think he is getting enough out of our staff for us to get to where we want to be. Nor do I think he can manage it well enough to get it there either.

[Todd4State]

And the stuff with Hancock- some of that is on the staff too. May have been an issue for awhile and we just didn't realize it because we had a future MLB catcher behind the plate the past three years in Logan Tanner.

Three pieces to defending a steal:

1. Pitcher getting the ball to home plate quickly enough to the catcher so that he can get rid of it on the throw down. Fast runners in baseball can get from one base to the other in about 3-4 seconds. Anything over 1.5 from mound to home plate is going to be tough to get a runner out on unless the runner makes a mistake.

2. Catcher to second. MLB average is 2.01. Hancock's is probably slower than that I'm guessing so let's randomly guess it's 2.1 or 2.2. Add that to the 1.5+ and then it's easy to see why we're having issues.

3. The tag from the SS or 2B.

[Commercecomet24]

And the stuff with Hancock- some of that is on the staff too. May have been an issue for awhile and we just didn't realize it because we had a future MLB catcher behind the plate the past three years in Logan Tanner.

Three pieces to defending a steal:

1. Pitcher getting the ball to home plate quickly enough to the catcher so that he can get rid of it on the throw down. Fast runners in baseball can get from one base to the other in about 3-4 seconds. Anything over 1.5 from mound to home plate is going to be tough to get a runner out on unless the runner makes a mistake.

2. Catcher to second. MLB average is 2.01. Hancock's is probably slower than that I'm guessing so let's randomly guess it's 2.1 or 2.2. Add that to the 1.5+ and then it's easy to see why we're having issues.

3. The tag from the SS or 2B.

Agree it's not all on Luke. Fast runners stealing second or third are 3.2-3.4. Pitchers need to be 1.1-1.4 to the plate. 1.5 and above you're going every time with your faster runners and even some of the average ones depending on catcher. Luke is average pop time for a college catcher. I got him at about 2.1(to second)on most throws so far. Combine that with our pitchers slow to the plate and we're gonna give up some sbs unless our pitchers help Luke out some. We've got some work to do for sure.

[BrunswickDawg]

CC and Todd have some points that people need to listen to. Throwing my 2 cents in - we have a whole lot of new faces. Many of the new ones have started well, and sometimes that puts pressure on the vets and they stumble - especially when coming off of a bad year. Echoing CC about aggressiveness on the mound - we definitely seem to be missing it. I'm not sure that's Fox - at least not from a philosophy standpoint. But, Fox needs to see the lack of aggressiveness and push the guys the right direction.

[maroonmania]

Really this season could not have started much worse for us. We have essentially been 10 run ruled TWICE by bad teams. Losing 13-3 to VMI in this past Saturday's game after being up 10-1 and then being down 11-0 to ULM before scoring some meaningless runs last night. We are talking the likes of VMI and ULM! To me, this is about as bad as it can get for MSU baseball. Yes, its possible the light switch can flip on and we somehow become a good team because we certainly have some talent, but at this point, after what went down last year, its certainly difficult to expect it. And its so disheartening, because after the first 2 seasons I truly thought we really had something with Lemonis.

[SilentSteel16]

Another thing that I noticed is we have alot of cross body pitchers. Cross body pitchers are a low statistically slower to home plate and also more susceptible to elbow injuries. I know Dierker made it a well established point of NOT even drafting “crossers” as he called it.

FYI, I think it is pretty self explanatory but a cross body pitcher is one who starts on edge of rubber far right for righties and left for lefties and plant and rotate and finish on opposite side.

[SPMT]

Maybe our coaches aren?t great at evaluation and recruiting. Looks that way to me this year and last year.

[basedog]

As far as pitching goes, not a whole lot of experience on the mound. Cade has the most experience as a starter, missed 6 weeks his freshman year, Kc and Stinnett just hasn't worked out. Very little experience with the relievers. Also, communication is bad on defense, mainly because of all the new faces, LF, CF, 3rd base, Second Base, 1st Base and catcher.

Expectations were and are high because we are a baseball school. I also think last year was a fluke mainly because we had pitchers hurt. It's early and I expect we will start to play better, it's just like basketball this year, trying to figure out the rotation and who gets hot and takes the position in the field or plate.

Hey, I'm not gonna say it's all bad coaching just yet, players have to perform and a coach can't make a pitcher throw strikes, nor can they make a batter get a hit. If Lemonis team this year finishes last, then yes, there will be changes.

Btw, who would have thought a few years ago Bednar would have had the year he had, so maybe one or two of our pitchers will step up, we have some decent young pitchers.

"There is no crying in Baseball"***

[SPMT]

As far as pitching goes, not a whole lot of experience on the mound. Cade has the most experience as a starter, missed 6 weeks his freshman year, Kc and Stinnett just hasn't worked out. Very little experience with the relievers. Also, communication is bad on defense, mainly because of all the new faces, LF, CF, 3rd base, Second Base, 1st Base and catcher.

Expectations were and are high because we are a baseball school. I also think last year was a fluke mainly because we had pitchers hurt. It's early and I expect we will start to play better, it's just like basketball this year, trying to figure out the rotation and who gets hot and takes the position in the field or plate.

Hey, I'm not gonna say it's all bad coaching just yet, players have to perform and a coach can't make a pitcher throw strikes, nor can they make a batter get a hit. If Lemonis team this year finishes last, then yes, there will be changes.

Btw, who would have thought a few years ago Bednar would have had the year he had, so maybe one or two of our pitchers will step up, we have some decent young pitchers.

"There is no crying in Baseball"***



True. Didn?t know Bednar would be the ace.

Think the issue is, we never found one last year and we look the same currently.

And ole miss wins it all with some freshmen.

And now we have no confidence in Foxhall.

[BrunswickDawg]

Really this season could not have started much worse for us. We have essentially been 10 run ruled TWICE by bad teams. Losing 13-3 to VMI in this past Saturday's game after being up 10-1 and then being down 11-0 to ULM before scoring some meaningless runs last night. We are talking the likes of VMI and ULM! To me, this is about as bad as it can get for MSU baseball. Yes, its possible the light switch can flip on and we somehow become a good team because we certainly have some talent, but at this point, after what went down last year, its certainly difficult to expect it. And its so disheartening, because after the first 2 seasons I truly thought we really had something with Lemonis.

Look around the country this week. Last night Vandy lost to Central Arkansas, Lipscomb beating Notre Dame, Elon beating Kentucky, California Baptist beat Oklahoma, Lamar beat TAMU. With the changes in the Minor League system 2 years ago, there are better players across the board in CBB and that is pushing talent down to the G5 schools quickly. Combine that with NIL and the portal, and there is going to be a lot more WTF loses for everyone moving forward. And - new teams are already emerging. Grand Canyon beat #2 Tennessee and I'd never even heard of that school.

[Pancho]

I agree with CC on all this pitching wise. By the time trying to gain additional back leg push, extending front leg stride and a myriad of arm angle/release point tinkering, I am leaning towards the opinion that Fox struggles with improving young pitchers and identifying their differences.

[Saltydog]

I want to see our pitchers be more aggressive. Attack hitters pound the strike zone and we've got guys that do that we just need more doing it.

I'm not sure some of our guys have the stuff to attack hitters CC. Some obviously do but I've seen a lot of very average stuff from several of our pitchers thus far and they know what's going to happen when they fill up the zone, just like Ty Hardin and Tyler Davis last night.

[maroonmania]

Look around the country this week. Last night Vandy lost to Central Arkansas, Lipscomb beating Notre Dame, Elon beating Kentucky, California Baptist beat Oklahoma, Lamar beat TAMU. With the changes in the Minor League system 2 years ago, there are better players across the board in CBB and that is pushing talent down to the G5 schools quickly. Combine that with NIL and the portal, and there is going to be a lot more WTF loses for everyone moving forward. And - new teams are already emerging. Grand Canyon beat #2 Tennessee and I'd never even heard of that school.

Both of our losses are embarrassing because of how we lost, not just that we lost. Being outscored by double digits for large stretches of each game. I personally don't see a way to put lipstick on the pig for now but today is a new day. We have to get it turned around quickly if we want even a shot at post season play because it's hard to see this team winning more than half its conference games even in the best of scenarios.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Look around the country this week. Last night Vandy lost to Central Arkansas, Lipscomb beating Notre Dame, Elon beating Kentucky, California Baptist beat Oklahoma, Lamar beat TAMU. With the changes in the Minor League system 2 years ago, there are better players across the board in CBB and that is pushing talent down to the G5 schools quickly. Combine that with NIL and the portal, and there is going to be a lot more WTF loses for everyone moving forward. And - new teams are already emerging. Grand Canyon beat #2 Tennessee and I'd never even heard of that school.

Losing is not what irked me last night. It is how we lost. We looked disinterested, kicked the ball around, took terrible ABs, and once again put pitchers on the mound who could not find the zone.

[Santiago]

Another thing that I noticed is we have alot of cross body pitchers. Cross body pitchers are a low statistically slower to home plate and also more susceptible to elbow injuries. I know Dierker made it a well established point of NOT even drafting ?crossers? as he called it.

FYI, I think it is pretty self explanatory but a cross body pitcher is one who starts on edge of rubber far right for righties and left for lefties and plant and rotate and finish on opposite side.

That makes Hunt a super cross body pitcher. Sometimes Saturday he was falling to his left out of balance.

[Santiago]

Losing is not what irked me last night. It is how we lost. We looked disinterested, kicked the ball around, took terrible ABs, and once again put pitchers on the mound who could not find the zone.

The freshmen pitchers looked good last night ,or at least they competed with the batters. The other 2, not so much.

[Tbonewannabe]

Look around the country this week. Last night Vandy lost to Central Arkansas, Lipscomb beating Notre Dame, Elon beating Kentucky, California Baptist beat Oklahoma, Lamar beat TAMU. With the changes in the Minor League system 2 years ago, there are better players across the board in CBB and that is pushing talent down to the G5 schools quickly. Combine that with NIL and the portal, and there is going to be a lot more WTF loses for everyone moving forward. And - new teams are already emerging. Grand Canyon beat #2 Tennessee and I'd never even heard of that school.

This is true but we weren't even really competitive last night. We didn't really hit any of their pitchers hardly. It wasn't like one guy pitched the game of his life. And they hit almost every guy we put out there.

I saw a tweet about the game. Other than hitting, pitching, fielding, base running, coaching, and anything else baseball related, we had a pretty good game yesterday.

[BrunswickDawg]

Both of our losses are embarrassing because of how we lost, not just that we lost. Being outscored by double digits for large stretches of each game. I personally don't see a way to put lipstick on the pig for now but today is a new day. We have to get it turned around quickly if we want even a shot at post season play because it's hard to see this team winning more than half its conference game even in the best of scenarios.


Losing is not what irked me last night. It is how we lost. We looked disinterested, kicked the ball around, took terrible ABs, and once again put pitchers on the mound who could not find the zone.

I'm not a big believer in the "it's not that we lost its how we lost" argument. A loss is a loss. There are a million different ways to lose, and I never felt any better after any different type of loss when I played.
Lemonis and Fox need to get their attention somehow, because we do seem to have lost our edge. I'd shake the lineup up today and tell Loo that if he starts well today, he's moving to the weekend rotation.

[Ari Gold]

it All starts at the top
That post game press conference told me a lot and It was weak

You are either coaching it or allowing it to happen..

Clock is ticking on this staff, shit better get fixed ASAP, and I’m not sure you can just flip a switch .. if so he better flip that mother ****er

[Cowbell]

Really this season could not have started much worse for us. We have essentially been 10 run ruled TWICE by bad teams. Losing 13-3 to VMI in this past Saturday's game after being up 10-1 and then being down 11-0 to ULM before scoring some meaningless runs last night. We are talking the likes of VMI and ULM! To me, this is about as bad as it can get for MSU baseball. Yes, its possible the light switch can flip on and we somehow become a good team because we certainly have some talent, but at this point, after what went down last year, its certainly difficult to expect it. And its so disheartening, because after the first 2 seasons I truly thought we really had something with Lemonis.

I agree with with. I was just thinking last night that this could not be much worse (outside of injuries, etc) - just talking pure performance.

[Cowbell]

Losing is not what irked me last night. It is how we lost. We looked disinterested, kicked the ball around, took terrible ABs, and once again put pitchers on the mound who could not find the zone.

We got beat 7 out of 9 innings by a team that takes our step down transfers.

[Activated Alpha]

it All starts at the top
That post game press conference told me a lot and It was weak

You are either coaching it or allowing it to happen..

Clock is ticking on this staff, shit better get fixed ASAP, and I’m not sure you can just flip a switch .. if so he better flip that mother ****er

This is my sentiment. Lemonis better be flipping that switch so mother****ing hard. I want to say this year will be a good one, but I feel like the team leaders we have now aren't cut out to be leaders (not saying they're bad players or bad teammates, but that they just don't have the courage to lead.) We also have a lot of young and new faces. I'm not sure how much help they would be able to provide this year in terms of success, but I am excited seeing them play together for the next few years...

[Cowbell]

I'm not a big believer in the "it's not that we lost its how we lost" argument. A loss is a loss. There are a million different ways to lose, and I never felt any better after any different type of loss when I played.
Lemonis and Fox need to get their attention somehow, because we do seem to have lost our edge. I'd shake the lineup up today and tell Loo that if he starts well today, he's moving to the weekend rotation.

To be fair, we didn't lose our edge. We have never had it with this team

[Cowbell]

it All starts at the top
That post game press conference told me a lot and It was weak

You are either coaching it or allowing it to happen..

Clock is ticking on this staff, shit better get fixed ASAP, and I’m not sure you can just flip a switch .. if so he better flip that mother ****er

Any link to that Ari

What are the left field rumblings?

[BrunswickDawg]

To be fair, we didn't lose our edge. We have never had it with this team

I'm talking from a program perspective, not just this team. We fought thru a metric shit ton of adversity from 2009-2021 and had our best decade in program history and we finally got over the top.
But, much like we learned in the JoMo experiment, we need a fire breathing dragon running our programs for some reason. Mullen, Vic, the Intense Bastard, and now Jans fit that. Leach was a little different, but he was old school and you didn't **** with that.
As much as some dislike Cohen the AD, the Intense Bastard could recruit, motivate, and established a culture that carried us through the Cann/Hendo/Lemo transition and got us that CWS ring finally. As much as I though Lemonis' first 3 seasons were carrying that forward, it looks like I may have been wrong and that mojo may be gone.

[tcdog70]

I want to see our pitchers be more aggressive. Attack hitters pound the strike zone and we've got guys that do that we just need more doing it.

exactly--after being up 10-1 We should have just pounded the strike zone, hell-just throw fastballs--the only thing to hurt you is walks and errors.

[tcdog70]

Agree it's not all on Luke. Fast runners stealing second or third are 3.2-3.4. Pitchers need to be 1.1-1.4 to the plate. 1.5 and above you're going every time with your faster runners and even some of the average ones depending on catcher. Luke is average pop time for a college catcher. I got him at about 2.1(to second)on most throws so far. Combine that with our pitchers slow to the plate and we're gonna give up some sbs unless our pitchers help Luke out some. We've got some work to do for sure.

what has happened to pitch outs?

[Commercecomet24]

exactly--after being up 10-1 We should have just pounded the strike zone, hell-just throw fastballs--the only thing to hurt you is walks and errors.

Amen to that! I hate walks and i hate nibbling(although we haven't really nibbled we've missed BIG). Walks make me pull what's left of my hair out, cannot stand it! We gave them 24 baserunners saturday with only 7 freaking hits! I mean there are gonna be some walks but I've kicked over many a trash can in my day after just inexcusable non-competitive walks.

[Todd4State]

I'm talking from a program perspective, not just this team. We fought thru a metric shit ton of adversity from 2009-2021 and had our best decade in program history and we finally got over the top.
But, much like we learned in the JoMo experiment, we need a fire breathing dragon running our programs for some reason. Mullen, Vic, the Intense Bastard, and now Jans fit that. Leach was a little different, but he was old school and you didn't **** with that.
As much as some dislike Cohen the AD, the Intense Bastard could recruit, motivate, and established a culture that carried us through the Cann/Hendo/Lemo transition and got us that CWS ring finally. As much as I thought Lemonis' first 3 seasons were carrying that forward, it looks like I may have been wrong and that mojo may be gone.

Lemonis has shown that he will chew ass if needed in the past. He just does it in the clubhouse or dugout or not in public view.

With our baseball fans and how Pollyanna some of them are that's probably not the worst thing ever.

Lemonis is a CEO coach. He is as good as his assistants. Right now his pitching coach sucks.

[Cowbell]

I'm talking from a program perspective, not just this team. We fought thru a metric shit ton of adversity from 2009-2021 and had our best decade in program history and we finally got over the top.
But, much like we learned in the JoMo experiment, we need a fire breathing dragon running our programs for some reason. Mullen, Vic, the Intense Bastard, and now Jans fit that. Leach was a little different, but he was old school and you didn't **** with that.
As much as some dislike Cohen the AD, the Intense Bastard could recruit, motivate, and established a culture that carried us through the Cann/Hendo/Lemo transition and got us that CWS ring finally. As much as I though Lemonis' first 3 seasons were carrying that forward, it looks like I may have been wrong and that mojo may be gone.

Ok I'm on board with this / heck our fans still have the mojo it but if something doesn't change soon we will become like the Texas football fans lol - all the mojo and no team

[Cowbell]

Amen to that! I hate walks and i hate nibbling(although we haven't really nibbled we've missed BIG). Walks make me pull what's left of my hair out, cannot stand it! We gave them 24 baserunners saturday with only 7 freaking hits! I mean there are gonna be some walks but I've kicked over many a trash can in my day after just inexcusable non-competitive walks.

We would have been better off with some random bench player tossing them 75 mph straight fastballs to atleast give our defense a chance

[Commercecomet24]

We would have been better off with some random bench player tossing them 75 mph straight fastballs to atleast give our defense a chance

It's one of the oldest coaching cliches in the book but so true, There is no defense for a walk. And it always seems like walks are contagious, once it starts it's like no one can throw strikes. Friday and Sunday our pitchers were very competitive and got the job done. Saturday and yesterday not so much.

[Commercecomet24]

Kudos to Cowbell for starting this thread. This has been a very good baseball discussion without any name calling or insanity(so far, lol). I love these type of discussion threads with all the excellent insights. Good stuff.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Cowbell again

[Goldendawg]

it All starts at the top
That post game press conference told me a lot and It was weak

You are either coaching it or allowing it to happen..

Clock is ticking on this staff, shit better get fixed ASAP, and I?m not sure you can just flip a switch .. if so he better flip that mother ****er

Most every team has injuries. Did we have more than our share last year, I don't know but it was stated as an excuse. However, even with injuries there is something wrong when you fall from National Champs to last in your own conference division the next year. Something big may be wrong.

[smootness]

Another thing that I noticed is we have alot of cross body pitchers. Cross body pitchers are a low statistically slower to home plate and also more susceptible to elbow injuries. I know Dierker made it a well established point of NOT even drafting ?crossers? as he called it.

FYI, I think it is pretty self explanatory but a cross body pitcher is one who starts on edge of rubber far right for righties and left for lefties and plant and rotate and finish on opposite side.

I don't think this is correct. A cross-body pitcher is one who goes even further with his plant leg to the side of his pitching arm. So a RHP who is cross-body plants his left leg further toward the 3B side; a cross-body LHP plants his right leg further toward the 1B side.

[maroonmania]

We would have been better off with some random bench player tossing them 75 mph straight fastballs to atleast give our defense a chance

Don't understand why you don't throw strikes to a team that can't hit up 10-1. Apparently the answer is because you simply cant.

[Santiago]

Someone tell me how good is Mershon at the plate?

[Randolph Dupree]

Lots of good posts in this thread. Hopefully Lemo and the team can get this turned around. One of the things that REALLY concerns me about Fox is the lack of development on the mound. I don't see how Fox survives at this point. How do you recruit top caliber pitching talent if your coach can't point to anyone he's developed recently? You can't.

Also, FWIW, defense has been a let down for sure but that doesn't concern me yet. I feel like we're pressing right now and those gremlins will work themselves out I feel.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I'm talking from a program perspective, not just this team. We fought thru a metric shit ton of adversity from 2009-2021 and had our best decade in program history and we finally got over the top.
But, much like we learned in the JoMo experiment, we need a fire breathing dragon running our programs for some reason. Mullen, Vic, the Intense Bastard, and now Jans fit that. Leach was a little different, but he was old school and you didn't **** with that.
As much as some dislike Cohen the AD, the Intense Bastard could recruit, motivate, and established a culture that carried us through the Cann/Hendo/Lemo transition and got us that CWS ring finally. As much as I though Lemonis' first 3 seasons were carrying that forward, it looks like I may have been wrong and that mojo may be gone.

We all underestimated how much Rowdey and Tanner meant to the team. After Sims went down no one has ever stepped up to fill that leadership void. From 16-21 we had a solid group of leaders. We haven't had one in over a year though. It's time for a group of 4 or 5 guys to step the F up.

16- Dakota, Sexton, Reed, Lowe, Kruger, Gavin, and Robson
17- Rooker, Mangum, Brown, Pilk, Gridley, and Cole
18- Mangum, Cole, JB, Pilk, Small, LA, Mac, and Stovall
19- Mangum, Cole, Small, Skelton, Mac, Westburg, and Foscue
21- Allen, Jordan, Hatcher, Self, and Sims
22- Sims
23- None

[Goldendawg]

Our recruiting classes have been ranked very highly under this coaching staff, yet we are picked dead last in the coaches's poll this year. Very troubling.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Our recruiting classes have been ranked very highly under this coaching staff, yet we are picked dead last in the coaches's poll this year. Very troubling.

Well they are, but 3 or 4 never make it to campus and 5 or 6 transfer out in the first two years so it's great on paper but when you dive into it how many of those players are we getting contributions from? Not many.

19- #7 class. Signed 18 players. We've gotten production from Sims, Bednar, Logan Tanner, James, and you can throw KC in there as well. The rest transferred, went in draft, or were cut
20- #17 class. Signed 17 players. We've gotten production from Kellum Clark, Cade Smith, and Lane Forsythe. The rest transferred, went in draft, or were cut.
21- #16 class. Signed 19 players. We've gotten production from Slate Alford, Pico Kohn, and Cole Cheatham. The rest transferred, went in draft, or were cut.

The 20 and 21 classes just killed us. Especially 21. A couple didn't make it to campus. We had 2 or 3 transfer before fall ended and almost the entire rest of the class transferred after the season.

[Goldendawg]

Well they are, but 3 or 4 never make it to campus and 5 or 6 transfer out in the first two years so it's great on paper but when you dive into it how many of those players are we getting contributions from? Not many.

19- #7 class. Signed 18 players. We've gotten production from Sims, Bednar, Logan Tanner, James, and you can throw KC in there as well. The rest transferred, went in draft, or were cut
20- #17 class. Signed 17 players. We've gotten production from Kellum Clark, Cade Smith, and Lane Forsythe. The rest transferred, went in draft, or were cut.
21- #16 class. Signed 19 players. We've gotten production from Slate Alford, Pico Kohn, and Cole Cheatham. The rest transferred, went in draft, or were cut.

The 20 and 21 classes just killed us. Especially 21. A couple didn't make it to campus. We had 2 or 3 transfer before fall ended and almost the entire rest of the class transferred after the season.

Thanks. Meanwhile other SEC teams recruiting better than this I am sure.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Thanks. Meanwhile other SEC teams recruiting better than this I am sure.

Yep

19- #7 class. 5th in the SEC
20- #17 class. 8th in the SEC
21- #16 class. 10th in the SEC
22- #5 class. 3rd in the SEC

[BrunswickDawg]

It's one of the oldest coaching cliches in the book but so true, There is no defense for a walk. And it always seems like walks are contagious, once it starts it's like no one can throw strikes. Friday and Sunday our pitchers were very competitive and got the job done. Saturday and yesterday not so much.

I think Lemonis is going to go through the whole staff and see who performs and then look at what roles players fit. It may cost us a few OOC games, but it could pay off in a couple of weeks.
We turned over this roster, and it may take some time to really see who has it.

We started a little bit like this in '16 - losing 2 of our first 4 opening weekend, and even ended up losing later to Eastern Kentucky (a game we led 7-1 and lost 12-16 due to a 4 run 10th) and Oral Roberts. Jake Mangum started the first game and looked lost, then only got 1 AB each game until a spot start against OK, and didn't become an every game starter until April.

[smootness]

Well they are, but 3 or 4 never make it to campus and 5 or 6 transfer out in the first two years so it's great on paper but when you dive into it how many of those players are we getting contributions from? Not many.

19- #7 class. Signed 18 players. We've gotten production from Sims, Bednar, Logan Tanner, James, and you can throw KC in there as well. The rest transferred, went in draft, or were cut
20- #17 class. Signed 17 players. We've gotten production from Kellum Clark, Cade Smith, and Lane Forsythe. The rest transferred, went in draft, or were cut.
21- #16 class. Signed 19 players. We've gotten production from Slate Alford, Pico Kohn, and Cole Cheatham. The rest transferred, went in draft, or were cut.

The 20 and 21 classes just killed us. Especially 21. A couple didn't make it to campus. We had 2 or 3 transfer before fall ended and almost the entire rest of the class transferred after the season.

I mean, 21 did give us Hunter Hines, too. Bryce Chance and interestingly, Dohm, were also in that class.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I mean, 21 did give us Hunter Hines, too.

You're right. I missed him on the list.

[State82]

Kudos to Cowbell for starting this thread. This has been a very good baseball discussion without any name calling or insanity(so far, lol). I love these type of discussion threads with all the excellent insights. Good stuff.

Definitely good, interesting discussion.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I mean, 21 did give us Hunter Hines, too. Bryce Chance and interestingly, Dohm, were also in that class.

Bryce was in that class. I didn't add him because we're only through 4 games. Dohm was added to the class once he transferred. They added Ledbetter to that class as well.

[SilentSteel16]

I don't think this is correct. A cross-body pitcher is one who goes even further with his plant leg to the side of his pitching arm. So a RHP who is cross-body plants his left leg further toward the 3B side; a cross-body LHP plants his right leg further toward the 1B side.

No sir, that is incorrect. It literally means there is no center to your stance or follow through, more torque up top and longer elongated motion. Which means more torque on elbow and base runners delight.

[SilentSteel16]

Going downhill is the ideal motion and for most it is slightly open with plant leg from left foot start point on rubber. Follow through with the arm across the body is not necessarily a cross body. I know there are several MLB teams that watch plant foot reps and make their decision on a guy and don’t even watch where the ball ends up …. Sounds crazy but 100 percent true

[Topbulldawg]

One other factor I see impacting throwing out runners is our pitchers control. If the ball isn't where the catcher expects, it makes their job even harder. I am not saying its the only cause, but its a factor.

[Cowbell]

Kudos to Cowbell for starting this thread. This has been a very good baseball discussion without any name calling or insanity(so far, lol). I love these type of discussion threads with all the excellent insights. Good stuff.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Cowbell again

I'm just glad it's baseball season man! I was thinking last night that even if this team can't get it together (and let's hope they do), I'm still going to watch like most everyone on here. Because we love this team and we love this game.

[Cowbell]

One thing that probably needs to come to a halt is the hate on our coaches for pitching recruiting. Twitter is blowing up right now because we have the most talented freshman in the game. He along with Lofton and Forsyth are huge coupled with the three solid transfers we have. Another year of recruiting like that and we will be fine.

We all need to remember these guys are committing in the 8th grade (IYKYK). That means at some point we were going to be hurt by the three coaches in three seasons mess.

[Commercecomet24]

I'm just glad it's baseball season man! I was thinking last night that even if this team can't get it together (and let's hope they do), I'm still going to watch like most everyone on here. Because we love this team and we love this game.

Amen to all this! Very well said!

[StarkVegasSteve]

One thing that probably needs to come to a halt is the hate on our coaches for pitching recruiting. Twitter is blowing up right now because we have the most talented freshman in the game. He along with Lofton and Forsyth are huge coupled with the three solid transfers we have. Another year of recruiting like that and we will be fine.

We all need to remember these guys are committing in the 8th grade (IYKYK). That means at some point we were going to be hurt by the three coaches in three seasons mess.

Well and COVID. Coaches weren't able to off campus recruit for over a year. I mean our 2021 class was signed almost without ever seeing the kids play. And that was Lemonis' first true class.

[BrunswickDawg]

Well and COVID. Coaches weren't able to off campus recruit for over a year. I mean our 2021 class was signed almost without ever seeing the kids play. And that was Lemonis' first true class.

Not to mention what COVID did to limit development of players we've had on campus. '20 season cut short; no summer ball '20;
Fall '20 still distancing and quarantining limited coach /player time; early '21 still distancing and screening plus having overloaded rosters for the '21 season. '20 and '21 signees got zero development unless they were already talented enough to play. Yes, other teams dealt with that, but couple with 4 coaches in 4 seasons and we were bound to have it impact the program. That's a ton of stuff to overcome.

[SilentSteel16]

One other factor I see impacting throwing out runners is our pitchers control. If the ball isn't where the catcher expects, it makes their job even harder. I am not saying its the only cause, but its a factor.

Amen, there is so much that has to happen perfectly to throw out a good base runner especially if he is not being kept close