LSU ace out

[AlSwearengen]

Torn UCL. Must be throwing those heavy balls the midget brought with him.

[Commercecomet24]

Arkansas down a frontline starter too. Wiggins out for the season

[Homedawg]

It's just todays era. Weighted balls play a factor. There is no doubt in my mind. But that's just a part. We can watch. Auburn does no Weighted balls. Lsu it's a religion w Johnson. And foxhall uses them some. Or did. I assume he still does. But not to the degree Johnson does.

[Todd4State]

Torn UCL. Must be throwing those heavy balls the midget brought with him.

It's likely too heavy too soon.

Similar situation in that we hired Wes late and LSU also hired Wes late. Maybe doing too much too soon to try to make up for lost time.

[The Federalist Engineer]

This dude really their Ace?

Not Skenes, Little, or Hurd?

Seems like a really good prospect, 10-Rated recruit. Pitched in 17 games last season, ERA +5, whip almost 2.

[Todd4State]

This dude really their Ace?

Not Skenes, Little, or Hurd?

Seems like a really good prospect, 10-Rated recruit. Pitched in 17 games last season, ERA +5, whip almost 2.

Potential ace closer maybe.

[AlSwearengen]

This dude really their Ace?

Not Skenes, Little, or Hurd?

Seems like a really good prospect, 10-Rated recruit. Pitched in 17 games last season, ERA +5, whip almost 2.

Multiple baseball people on twitter were saying he was the best they saw during the fall.

[CoachT14]

Torn UCL. Must be throwing those heavy balls the midget brought with him.

Because throwing an implement heavier than a 5 oz baseball causes a plethora of Tommy John. *cough cough* Footballs are 14-16 oz.

[CoachT14]

It's likely too heavy too soon.

Similar situation in that we hired Wes late and LSU also hired Wes late. Maybe doing too much too soon to try to make up for lost time.

This is possible. Weighted balls in and of themselves aren't bad. But they can be misused. There's no doubt to that. Throwing a weighted ball is no different than lifting weights. If you are lifting improperly or moving up in weight too quick... of course you can get hurt.

[SilentSteel16]

To show you how tight these standings are, LSU dropped out of top overall bet to win it all with this guy going down. Tenn just took top spot. West is stacked

[SilentSteel16]

Because throwing an implement heavier than a 5 oz baseball causes a plethora of Tommy John. *cough cough* Footballs are 14-16 oz.

Throwing a football is a totally different arm motion genius ….

[SilentSteel16]

You do know that a weighted ball is not a “medicine ball” right???

[Johnson85]

Throwing a football is a totally different arm motion genius ….

Plus how often are you throwing the ball close to as hard as you can in football?

[Ari Gold]

All I know is “midget”
When he left here got jobs at Arky, MLB, and now LSU

Prob a really good indication he is very good

And side not we had our arm issues last year as well

[SilentSteel16]

He is very good, his only drawback is the 6/1 schedule he keeps. Ideally you want a 4/3 or rarely a 5/2 schedule for pitchers in season. That is why his guys usually drag up with arm fatigue. He only has 1 non scheduled rest day (no throwing.) We always ran a 5/2 with 1 of those 2 days being a pure cardio day but then again we were on 162 game schedule not 60. I still don’t believe in the Plyo ball stuff but that was just becoming a thing when I went back to flying. Putting that kind of torque on an elbow with weight is never a good recipe in my mind.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Multiple baseball people on twitter were saying he was the best they saw during the fall.

Good to know- those guys are awesomely deep down there.

[archdog]

Football, not even close to the same.

[CoachT14]

Throwing a football is a totally different arm motion genius ….

Totally different? Lol. It's an overhead throwing motion. The stress is the same. They throw footballs every single day multiple times during practice. You don't throw weighted balls off the mound. They are usually thrown during the warmup phase. Driveline specifically recommends from 10 to 90 feet then switch to a 5 oz after for max distance and the pull down portion of long toss. I highly doubt Alan Jaegar one of the best arm care guys in the world would even recommend using weighted balls, let alone allow them to use his name and bands in their peer-reviewed studies if he didn't think they were healthy.

[Cowbell]

It will happen to us as well.

[basedog]

The biggest problem are kids/pitchers throwing way too much at early ages. Especially curve balls.

[SilentSteel16]

Totally different? Lol. It's an overhead throwing motion. The stress is the same. They throw footballs every single day multiple times during practice. You don't throw weighted balls off the mound. They are usually thrown during the warmup phase. Driveline specifically recommends from 10 to 90 feet then switch to a 5 oz after for max distance and the pull down portion of long toss. I highly doubt Alan Jaegar one of the best arm care guys in the world would even recommend using weighted balls, let alone allow them to use his name and bands in their peer-reviewed studies if he didn't think they were healthy.
Yes it is a totally different arm motion and even starting point for wrist. Which in turn puts a different torque on your elbow. I dealt professionally on this not getting into it with a JV football coach. Take your troll shit elsewhere.

[SilentSteel16]

Totally different? Lol. It's an overhead throwing motion. The stress is the same. They throw footballs every single day multiple times during practice. You don't throw weighted balls off the mound. They are usually thrown during the warmup phase. Driveline specifically recommends from 10 to 90 feet then switch to a 5 oz after for max distance and the pull down portion of long toss. I highly doubt Alan Jaegar one of the best arm care guys in the world would even recommend using weighted balls, let alone allow them to use his name and bands in their peer-reviewed studies if he didn't think they were healthy.

You are talking about a release point that is entirely 45 degrees at a minimum different rotation. So YES totally different motion and strain on the elbow. Which is a UCL FYI.

Weighted balls have there place as do rest days but as stated earlier, that is his personal routine he utilizes. Which in turn will continue to mount health concerns.

[SilentSteel16]

If you are throwing a weighted ball up to 90 feet then you deserve what you get. If you are allowing a kid to throw a weighted ball over 50 feet you are destroying elbows. The proper use for Pylos are for warming up and short tosses. NOT for full motion and flex from a mound. But I digress……

[BrunswickDawg]

Football, not even close to the same.

Worked for Maddux, Glavine, & Smoltz. Tom House and Leo Mazzone were big believers in using footballs to help stretch out pitchers.

[SilentSteel16]

Yes they were so you want to know why? Because it would do just that, stretch out your arm WITHOUT wear and tear on your elbow. Totally different throwing motion. It is common practice on Day 3 (1st day of throwing) to long toss with a football. The reason is for working legs and back without straining elbow.

[Jarius]

Worked for Maddux, Glavine, & Smoltz. Tom House and Leo Mazzone were big believers in using footballs to help stretch out pitchers.

I am no Dr., but it seems there would be way more surgeries for TJ in football for quarterbacks if the throwing motions were the same.

[Tripp McNeely]

The biggest problem are kids/pitchers throwing way too much at early ages. Especially curve balls.

My 13 year old nephew, who plays travel ball, was told yesterday that he might have to have a TJ procedure!! It's CRIMINAL how much kids are throwing nowadays at such young ages!!

[Johnson85]

My 13 year old nephew, who plays travel ball, was told yesterday that he might have to have a TJ procedure!! It's CRIMINAL how much kids are throwing nowadays at such young ages!!

That just means his coaches are thinking ahead. Go ahead and get it out the way now so he doesn't have his college or pro career derailed.**

[HancockCountyDog]

I hope that NIL money cleared.

[State82]

Totally different? Lol. It's an overhead throwing motion. The stress is the same. They throw footballs every single day multiple times during practice. You don't throw weighted balls off the mound. They are usually thrown during the warmup phase. Driveline specifically recommends from 10 to 90 feet then switch to a 5 oz after for max distance and the pull down portion of long toss. I highly doubt Alan Jaegar one of the best arm care guys in the world would even recommend using weighted balls, let alone allow them to use his name and bands in their peer-reviewed studies if he didn't think they were healthy.

Might be best to listen to SilentSteel16. Just saying.

[State82]

The biggest problem are kids/pitchers throwing way too much at early ages. Especially curve balls.
Absolutely it is.

[Goldendawg]

I am no Dr., but it seems there would be way more surgeries for TJ in football for quarterbacks if the throwing motions were the same.

No expert on this at all. My 1st cousin's son was a recent starter at MSU his entire career, ( but not a pitcher, although he pitched some in HS) and he was engaged in travel ball at an early young age through HS. Could some of this "year round activity" be contributing to more pitcher arm issues at college level? Saw another cousin's son who is junior HS catcher and he has recently had arm surgery.

[basedog]

My 13 year old nephew, who plays travel ball, was told yesterday that he might have to have a TJ procedure!! It's CRIMINAL how much kids are throwing nowadays at such young ages!!

I hate hearing this but they have come a long ways with TJ surgery. Way too much travel ball, back in my day there was no such thing except playing all star games. Not only that but kids didn’t just play one sport. It’s not just travel ball for boys but girls playing travel ball in soccer and volleyball.

[Johnson85]

I hate hearing this but they have come a long ways with TJ surgery. Way too much travel ball, back in my day there was no such thing except playing all star games. Not only that but kids didn’t just play one sport. It’s not just travel ball for boys but girls playing travel ball in soccer and volleyball.

I don't know how they handle pitch counts, but I'm amazed at how many tournaments 9-10 year olds play in the fall now. I'm amazed at how many 7 & 8 year olds play too, but that's at least coach pitch, so they aren't stressing their arm pitching. They will have played as many games before they get to Jr. High as people my age played by the time the went to college.

[SilentSteel16]

I hate travel ball, there are some very good and kid centered coaches(CComet) but those are few and far between. A lot of the times these coaches are has beens or never was and are living through these kids. IT IS NOT ALL ON THE COACHES THOUGH. PARENTS are just as bad, trust me, your kid missing a weekend in his 3rd tournament in 9 days to rest his arm are NOT going to hurt his draft stock. Parents run their kids out there and overpowered coaches with no backbone to the kids detriment.

There are a lot of kids coming close to 100 IP in a summer in some of these teams. And it starts young.

[CoachT14]

Yes it is a totally different arm motion and even starting point for wrist. Which in turn puts a different torque on your elbow. I dealt professionally on this not getting into it with a JV football coach. Take your troll shit elsewhere.

Not a JV football coach... carry on. Of course it is slightly different, just as each throwing motion made is slightly different with slightly less or more stressors at different points.

[CoachT14]

Might be best to listen to SilentSteel16. Just saying.

I'm not exactly a non-expert either. I've been coaching baseball for long enough to hold this discussion.

[CoachT14]

If you are throwing a weighted ball up to 90 feet then you deserve what you get. If you are allowing a kid to throw a weighted ball over 50 feet you are destroying elbows. The proper use for Pylos are for warming up and short tosses. NOT for full motion and flex from a mound. But I digress??

I agree on the proper use for plyos. That's all I've ever used them for... to build arm strength and help build the posterior shoulder muscles to help in the deceleration process of the arm after ball release. Where do most UCL tears happen? The posterior shoulder muscles not being able to properly decel the arm. Hence using plyos to help build that.

Weighted balls do put more pressure on the elbow if misused. That's obvious. Using them out to 90 feet for light toss while arching out to long toss isn't misuse.

We can easily have a conversation of how specialization and year round travel ball is the actual problem behind the rise in UCL tears. Weighted balls are just an easy culprit for people who don't understand biomechanics.

[CoachT14]

I hate travel ball, there are some very good and kid centered coaches(CComet) but those are few and far between. A lot of the times these coaches are has beens or never was and are living through these kids. IT IS NOT ALL ON THE COACHES THOUGH. PARENTS are just as bad, trust me, your kid missing a weekend in his 3rd tournament in 9 days to rest his arm are NOT going to hurt his draft stock. Parents run their kids out there and overpowered coaches with no backbone to the kids detriment.

There are a lot of kids coming close to 100 IP in a summer in some of these teams. And it starts young.

You and I can 100% agree on this. There's a reason so many kids from the States are struggling to make it in the pros. Pressure from family, injuries from years of misuse, and burnout from playing so much at a young age.

[sandjunky]

The biggest problem are kids/pitchers throwing way too much at early ages. Especially curve balls.
This is ignorant- a properly thrown fastball produces more stress on your arm than a properly thrown curveball

No the problem with all the injuries is kids taking too much time off from throwing entirely (which id ****ing stupid) returning to throw and ramping up entirely too quick - because their velo isn?t where it was when they shut it down

[smootness]

There are a few main causes of the massive increase in pitching injuries and surgeries:

1) Throwing more often and at earlier ages
2) Specialization in baseball/pitching, which further leads to #1
3) Max effort and the constant hunt for maxing out velo
4) The success of TJ surgery and the fact that, aside from sitting out a year, it isn't seen as a big problem or a hindrance to a career

And there's no going back, it just is what it is. Kids will continue to pitch more and more and hunt more and more for max velocity. The analytics show that it works, and they're going to keep going after it.

[sandjunky]

I hate travel ball, there are some very good and kid centered coaches(CComet) but those are few and far between. A lot of the times these coaches are has beens or never was and are living through these kids. IT IS NOT ALL ON THE COACHES THOUGH. PARENTS are just as bad, trust me, your kid missing a weekend in his 3rd tournament in 9 days to rest his arm are NOT going to hurt his draft stock. Parents run their kids out there and overpowered coaches with no backbone to the kids detriment.

There are a lot of kids coming close to 100 IP in a summer in some of these teams. And it starts young.

I?ve seen more misuse at the MS and HS level than travel ball

For example in Alabama, There are pitch counts that are grade dependent
7th/8th - 85 pitches daily
9th/10th - 100 pitches daily
11th/12th- 120 pitches

Mandatory rest days
76+ - 3 days
51 to 75 - 2 days
26 to 50 - 1 day
Less than 26 - none

I have a problem with those rest days - I?ve seen a kid throw 100 on Monday - throw 85 on Friday and then throw a 100 on Tuesday

So 285 mound pitches (not including warmup and bullpen pregame) or throwing in between

I had to ask politely our middle school coach to rest my son who had just transitioned to big field last year - he started a game on Saturday (45 pitches) and finished it catching - started on Tuesday and threw 77 got pulled up to JV for the following Saturday and they threw him 80

[Goldendawg]

I hate travel ball, there are some very good and kid centered coaches(CComet) but those are few and far between. A lot of the times these coaches are has beens or never was and are living through these kids. IT IS NOT ALL ON THE COACHES THOUGH. PARENTS are just as bad, trust me, your kid missing a weekend in his 3rd tournament in 9 days to rest his arm are NOT going to hurt his draft stock. Parents run their kids out there and overpowered coaches with no backbone to the kids detriment.

There are a lot of kids coming close to 100 IP in a summer in some of these teams. And it starts young.

Travel ball is also causing some HS athletes to choose only one sport as seasons and travel ball overlap. Our basketball girls are in state playoffs and travel volleyball season in also going on. Upside: One girl who is playing and starting in both, has the chance to be first athlete to be a champion in two sports in the same school year.