Pitching roles after today....

[HoopsDawg]

Gartman and Davis both looked good. 6 innings, 0 runs. We have to remember that Gartman was the pitcher of the year in his conference. And Davis was the Friday night starter for VCU.

If I had to call it right now: Cade, Gartman, and Davis would be my 3 starters. I doubt that's what Foxhall will do, just my 3.

Nixon and Dohm back end bullpen guys. Yntema a matchup lefty (hasn't given up a run in the fall + spring). Holcombe a 1 inning only, Colby White type pitcher, might not be ready for weekends yet. Stinnett and Hunt out of the pen. Loftin and Loo midweek guys to start with the potential to move to weekends. Kohn midweek starter maybe. Or maybe matchup lefty on weekends.

That's where I'm at right now.

[AlSwearengen]

Have you seen any, some, or all of the scrimmages or is your info and conclusions coming from reports?

Thanks for the info.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Davis has 3 years of D1 performance and not being a Canadian, Paducahan, or Oregonian. He was Friday Night for a team that beat UGA in a regional.

Has the Bio of JP France, a Tulane transfer that was great for MSU in 2018. Lefty with D1 experience and success.

Lemonis has February and March to get pitching roles sorted out.

In 2021. The first weekend rotation was McLeod, Fristoe, and Harding. Tullar was first from the pen. Even Cerantola started the first SEC Sunday. EC lasted 1.1 inning vs LSU. By July, only one was still going strong. The first closers were Lovette, Spencer Price, and Riley Self. None of them were doing much by Omaha. Sims was middle relief, Bednar was hurt,

[Todd4State]

If I was in MSU's shoes....

Fri- Gartman
Sat- Cade Smith
Sun- Loftin or Loo

Long relief- Hunt

Closer- Nixon
Relief Ace- Dohm
Set-up- Holcombe
Others- Pico and Tyler Davis

Midweek- Loftin and Loo
SWAC- Stinnett

[The Federalist Engineer]

"SWAC", Usually we give that critical job to a Freshman prospect. Like Logan Forsythe this year.

I think Pico rates much higher than "other". He might be Lefty Long Relief to KC as Righty Long Relief

I am intrigued by Nate Williams, could be making contributions this season. Power Pitcher that would be a Setup Man at MSU. All his stats are as a starter, but as an 8th inning man, he could be Colby White 2.0. Has to adjust to that role.

[Homedawg]

Gartman and Davis both looked good. 6 innings, 0 runs. We have to remember that Gartman was the pitcher of the year in his conference. And Davis was the Friday night starter for VCU.

If I had to call it right now: Cade, Gartman, and Davis would be my 3 starters. I doubt that's what Foxhall will do, just my 3.

Nixon and Dohm back end bullpen guys. Yntema a matchup lefty (hasn't given up a run in the fall + spring). Holcombe a 1 inning only, Colby White type pitcher, might not be ready for weekends yet. Stinnett and Hunt out of the pen. Loftin and Loo midweek guys to start with the potential to move to weekends. Kohn midweek starter maybe. Or maybe matchup lefty on weekends.

That's where I'm at right now.

Davis won't be a starter first weekend. Dohm is the guy they will have to figure out what to do with. He bud legit. I think they want him to be a pen guy. But he might end up a starter.

[Homedawg]

If I was in MSU's shoes....

Fri- Gartman
Sat- Cade Smith
Sun- Loftin or Loo

Long relief- Hunt

Closer- Nixon
Relief Ace- Dohm
Set-up- Holcombe
Others- Pico and Tyler Davis

Midweek- Loftin and Loo
SWAC- Stinnett

Gartman isn't a Fri night guy in the sec.

[Homedawg]

If I was in MSU's shoes....

Fri- Gartman
Sat- Cade Smith
Sun- Loftin or Loo

Long relief- Hunt

Closer- Nixon
Relief Ace- Dohm
Set-up- Holcombe
Others- Pico and Tyler Davis

Midweek- Loftin and Loo
SWAC- Stinnett
The guy who is being left out is the juco lhp. He will get us inning in the pen. I agree hunt is long relief first guy out of pen to keep you in a game

[Todd4State]

Gartman isn't a Fri night guy in the sec.

Nor is anyone else on the roster. Except maybe Loftin and Loo. And that's down the road.

[Todd4State]

The guy who is being left out is the juco lhp. He will get us inning in the pen. I agree hunt is long relief first guy out of pen to keep you in a game

Ynetema? I almost included him.

[KOdawg1]

Ynetema? I almost included him.

He's done well in the scrimmages

[Homedawg]

Ynetema? I almost included him.

Yes.

[Cowbell]

Yes.

I'm a need a pronunciation please

[CaptainObvious]

Damn. When I read y?all writing about our pitching, I see a 10-20 SEC record. Surely these guys are better then that. And as far as Guys not being SEC level pitching, didn?t Memphis have a guy who no-hit us last year threw 6 innings and then there BP fell apart and we got on em hard.

[CaptainObvious]

I'm a need a pronunciation please

Just like it sounds en-e-ma. Let?s hope he is good enough to do a few of those to loosing up the opponents.

[Saltydog]

Gartman and Davis both looked good. 6 innings, 0 runs. We have to remember that Gartman was the pitcher of the year in his conference. And Davis was the Friday night starter for VCU.

If I had to call it right now: Cade, Gartman, and Davis would be my 3 starters. I doubt that's what Foxhall will do, just my 3.

Nixon and Dohm back end bullpen guys. Yntema a matchup lefty (hasn't given up a run in the fall + spring). Holcombe a 1 inning only, Colby White type pitcher, might not be ready for weekends yet. Stinnett and Hunt out of the pen. Loftin and Loo midweek guys to start with the potential to move to weekends. Kohn midweek starter maybe. Or maybe matchup lefty on weekends.

That's where I'm at right now.

Where does our amphibious kid fit in? He
was very highly rated coming in.

[HoopsDawg]

Where does our amphibious kid fit in? He
was very highly rated coming in.

That's Loo. I would start him mid-week with the potential to be a weekend starter. Very talented.

[Mjoelner34]

Where does our amphibious kid fit in? He
was very highly rated coming in.

He was hitting 95 RH today and 90 LH.

[TNDawg35]

Damn. When I read y?all writing about our pitching, I see a 10-20 SEC record. Surely these guys are better then that. And as far as Guys not being SEC level pitching, didn?t Memphis have a guy who no-hit us last year threw 6 innings and then there BP fell apart and we got on em hard.

That’s Gartman. Also, you should know “some” people on here are always doom and gloom, we suck again, no pitching/no hitting…

[mparkerfd20]

Doom and gloom or whatever I do think we suck again. Hopefully our O is good enough to squeak in as a low 2 or high 3 seed.

[Saltydog]

That's Loo. I would start him mid-week with the potential to be a weekend starter. Very talented.

Oh ok. Didn't know that was his nickname. Course it's probably not a bad nickname considering his last name is Cijntje. Knew he had to be in the mix somewhere though.

[MoreCowbell]

"SWAC", Usually we give that critical job to a Freshman prospect. Like Logan Forsythe this year.

I think Pico rates much higher than "other". He might be Lefty Long Relief to KC as Righty Long Relief

I am intrigued by Nate Williams, could be making contributions this season. Power Pitcher that would be a Setup Man at MSU. All his stats are as a starter, but as an 8th inning man, he could be Colby White 2.0. Has to adjust to that role.

Do we have 2 Logan Forsythe?

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Do we have 2 Logan Forsythe?

No

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Do we have 2 Logan Forsythe?

Logan Forsythe freshman pitcher
Lane Forsythe junior shortstop

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Logan Forsythe freshman pitcher
Lane Forsythe junior shortstop

All this money we spend on baseball and we let a recruiting disaster like this happen??!? there's a 0% chance this board will keep those 2 straight. It's like these coaches don't care at all about our gameday melts being organized and easy to follow

[Homedawg]

All this money we spend on baseball and we let a recruiting disaster like this happen??!? there's a 0% chance this board will keep those 2 straight. It's like these coaches don't care at all about our gameday melts being organized and easy to follow

Well done!!! Haha

[StarkVegasSteve]

Cade will get the ball opening day. After that, who knows. If I had to guess it will be:

Sat- Gartman
Sun- KC

We have a few weeks to figure it out so it is safe to say this will change before SEC play starts.

[confucius say]

We desperately need Cade to emerge as a true Friday night guy. Or someone. If we get that, everything else will fall into place.

[StarkVegasSteve]

We desperately need Cade to emerge as a true Friday night guy. Or someone. If we get that, everything else will fall into place.

Bullpen will make or break this team. We need Nixon to be the guy he was at Texas his freshman year. We need Dohm to be that Colby White type guy and we desperately need one to two guys to step into that 2021 Preston Johnson or 2020 Jared Liebelt role.

[confucius say]

Bullpen will make or break this team. We need Nixon to be the guy he was at Texas his freshman year. We need Dohm to be that Colby White type guy and we desperately need one to two guys to step into that 2021 Preston Johnson or 2020 Jared Liebelt role.

I agree with that. And I think we have enough bullpen pieces to figure that out. I even think Dohm > Nixon right now.
But if we are only getting 4 innings from our weekend starters and having to use 4 pen arms on Fridays, it's going to be tough on our bullpen arms.

[Todd4State]

We desperately need Cade to emerge as a true Friday night guy. Or someone. If we get that, everything else will fall into place.

Nate Dohm is my darkhorse Friday night contender by SEC play.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I agree with that. And I think we have enough bullpen pieces to figure that out. I even think Dohm > Nixon right now.
But if we are only getting 4 innings from our weekend starters and having to use 4 pen arms on Fridays, it's going to be tough on our bullpen arms.

Well you can do that on a Sunday maybe, but you need your Friday and Saturday guys to go 6-7 innings. However, as we saw last year, it does not really matter if your starter goes even 8 if your bullpen just blows it in the end or you have to leave your starter out there too long because of no faith in the pen.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Nate Dohm is my darkhorse Friday night contender by SEC play.

Unless his durability and stamina have both drastically increased, he is more of a 2-3 inning guy and emergency starter in a regional that could give you maybe 5.

[confucius say]

Nate Dohm is my darkhorse Friday night contender by SEC play.

He's been the best arm I've seen this spring. Granted it's been in short spurts.

[confucius say]

Well you can do that on a Sunday maybe, but you need your Friday and Saturday guys to go 6-7 innings. However, as we saw last year, it does not really matter if your starter goes even 8 if your bullpen just blows it in the end or you have to leave your starter out there too long because of no faith in the pen.

Agree.

[Saltydog]

Cade will get the ball opening day. After that, who knows. If I had to guess it will be:

Sat- Gartman
Sun- KC

We have a few weeks to figure it out so it is safe to say this will change before SEC play starts.

Yeah, no doubt on Cade at this point. He's your no. 1 starter. After that, it's anybody's guess. I think we'll see a lot of piggyback starts (guys working 3-4 innings) to begin the year just to see how that works and who's effective but I could be wrong.

[Johnson85]

I agree with that. And I think we have enough bullpen pieces to figure that out. I even think Dohm > Nixon right now.
But if we are only getting 4 innings from our weekend starters and having to use 4 pen arms on Fridays, it's going to be tough on our bullpen arms.

Yea, I think we're not likely going to have a true Friday night guy, but it's imperitive that we have a starter on Friday that eats innings and at least saves our bullpen.

Or alternatively, we need to figure out a way to utilize bullpen guys on Friday in a way that leaves them available on Sunday. Not sure if that's feasible if we are only getting four innings out of our starter.

[HoopsDawg]

Unless his durability and stamina have both drastically increased, he is more of a 2-3 inning guy and emergency starter in a regional that could give you maybe 5.

Foxhall would sign up for 5 innings out of all 3 starters today. He's hoping for 5-6.

[R2Dawg]

I don't usually get into baseball until we actually start playing games and maybe my optimism is not justified but readying yall's comments on pitching, I am a little excited to see some of these guys. We could be a surprise team again this year for the right reasons. I feel like our pen is better pending no injuries. I know a lot can and will change pending how new/young guys do but seems like we got a lot of nice pieces.

Ready to get the Bulldog baseball confidence back after last year debacle. Bad luck and all, last year don't happen to top baseball programs but it did.

[Saltydog]

Anybody got any news on Cole Cheatham? I know out of necessity we started pitching him some down the stretch last year and he got roughed up but I thought he might develop into a good pitcher down the line. Kind of a lefty specialists role if nothing else. He had a pretty nasty breaking pitch. Just looked at his stats from last year and he K'ed 18 in 12 innings but also walked 12.

[Homedawg]

Anybody got any news on Cole Cheatham? I know out of necessity we started pitching him some down the stretch last year and he got roughed up but I thought he might develop into a good pitcher down the line. Kind of a lefty specialists role if nothing else. He had a pretty nasty breaking pitch. Just looked at his stats from last year and he K'ed 18 in 12 innings but also walked 12.

He's way down the line. Several lefties in front of him .

[WSOPdawg]

Regarding Foxhall's pitching philosophy: Get up 0-2 as quick as you can to give the batter the opportunity to get himself out swinging at an out-of-the-zone pitch.

So if you're the opposing coach, surely you've reminded your batter to expect the next couple of pitches to be out of the zone. Hence, don't help the pitcher. Our counter should be to find strike 3 as fast as possible (ie, no nibbling), thereby greatly reducing all of the BB's after an 0-2 count (originating from our SPer starting to nibble). This also allows the SPer to get deeper into the 6th or 7th inning as opposed to 100+ pitches after on 4 innings.

Is Foxhall's pitching philosophy "dated"? Shouldn't or SPers be taught to catch the hitter by surprise more (cuz I remember a lot of 0-2 count, but very few K's on the next pitch sans Landon Sims)?

[StarkVegasSteve]

Foxhall would sign up for 5 innings out of all 3 starters today. He's hoping for 5-6.

That is precisely what worries me. We are again going to have to HEAVILY rely on a bullpen that, while talented, is unproven in this league. I mean Dohm is electric on the radar gun, but what is he going to do when the lights are on and 12K are in the stands on a Friday night. Nixon was great as a freshman but after the debacle at TTU last year he was never the same so which Nixon do you get. Cjintje and Loftin are UBER talented, but they are freshman. Tyler Davis is another one that while he has done at this level he has not done it in this atmosphere.

[CaptainObvious]

Give me 3 College Weekend starters with 5 plus innings per start and I am ecstatic! That is exactly what you want for a weekend rotation.
That will certainly save some arms if they are not walking 6 and striking out 3 in their stints.

[HoopsDawg]

That is precisely what worries me. We are again going to have to HEAVILY rely on a bullpen that, while talented, is unproven in this league. I mean Dohm is electric on the radar gun, but what is he going to do when the lights are on and 12K are in the stands on a Friday night. Nixon was great as a freshman but after the debacle at TTU last year he was never the same so which Nixon do you get. Cjintje and Loftin are UBER talented, but they are freshman. Tyler Davis is another one that while he has done at this level he has not done it in this atmosphere.

That's a different topic. You said you need your Friday and Saturday guys to go 7 innings. That's not going to be the case with this team. We don't have a Bednar or a Sims. It's going to be get 5 innings out of the starters, maybe 6 and then bullpen by committee. From what I've seen Gartman can eat innings. Cade can eat innings at times. And Tyler Davis has a little Houston Harding about him. Then you have guys like Dohm, Nixon, Holcomb, Yntema, Hunt, Kohn, Stinnett, etc. Get ready for a lot of pitching changes and possibly some long games this year. Foxhall is going to have to manage his ass off.

[MaroonFlounder]

Yeah, no doubt on Cade at this point. He's your no. 1 starter. After that, it's anybody's guess. I think we'll see a lot of piggyback starts (guys working 3-4 innings) to begin the year just to see how that works and who's effective but I could be wrong.

I like Cade a lot. He rarely walks more than a batter or 2.

But that also means he will occasionally get too much of the middle of the zone and ball goes gap or out like a rocket.

[Schultzy]

Are we wasting Cade on Friday? I’m thinking yes.

ETA:

We are basically going into the season with a Saturday starter and two Sunday starters; now we could have someone really step up and have an all-conference type year among all these names and I won’t be surprised if we do…

But it looks to me like going into the season we are going to need our bats to win us a Friday game or two and a helluva lot of Sat/Sun games.
And it sounds like we might have a lineup that can do that.

[Todd4State]

Regarding Foxhall's pitching philosophy: Get up 0-2 as quick as you can to give the batter the opportunity to get himself out swinging at an out-of-the-zone pitch.

So if you're the opposing coach, surely you've reminded your batter to expect the next couple of pitches to be out of the zone. Hence, don't help the pitcher. Our counter should be to find strike 3 as fast as possible (ie, no nibbling), thereby greatly reducing all of the BB's after an 0-2 count (originating from our SPer starting to nibble). This also allows the SPer to get deeper into the 6th or 7th inning as opposed to 100+ pitches after on 4 innings.

Is Foxhall's pitching philosophy "dated"? Shouldn't or SPers be taught to catch the hitter by surprise more (cuz I remember a lot of 0-2 count, but very few K's on the next pitch sans Landon Sims)?

To my understanding...

Foxhall wants our guys to pitch up in the zone to generate swings and misses and rack up K's. Which is a big reason why we led the SEC in K's a couple of years ago.

Best way to get ahead 0-2 IMO- THROW STIKES- don't nibble trying to get guys to chase. HAVE TO locate. When you nibble hitters in the SEC more often will take- and then they'll eliminate pitches and sit on your fastball if they get ahead in the count.

Foxhall's style works great for some pitchers- like Landon Sims. But it takes a skill set to pitch like that. Which Landon had. Hard four seam fastball with lots of MPH's and RPM's on it.

The thing about pitchers is they are all different. But because of that your pitching coach can't have a one size fits all philosophy. You wouldn't ask Greg Maddux to pitch like Nolan Ryan. But both are HOF pitchers.

Some pitchers need to pitch down in the zone. Like if they have a lot of sink and don't throw as hard.

What happened last season is we had some guys that were scared to live up in the zone- so they nibbled or overthrew. Which led to getting behind in counts. Which led to baserunners. That was partially due to the recruiting gap between Henderson and Foxhall who had two different philosophies.

Foxhall did a really shitty job with our staff last year.

[Mjoelner34]

To my understanding...

Foxhall wants our guys to pitch up in the zone to generate swings and misses and rack up K's. Which is a big reason why we led the SEC in K's a couple of years ago.

Best way to get ahead 0-2 IMO- THROW STIKES- don't nibble trying to get guys to chase. HAVE TO locate. When you nibble hitters in the SEC more often will take- and then they'll eliminate pitches and sit on your fastball if they get ahead in the count.

Foxhall's style works great for some pitchers- like Landon Sims. But it takes a skill set to pitch like that. Which Landon had. Hard four seam fastball with lots of MPH's and RPM's on it.

The thing about pitchers is they are all different. But because of that your pitching coach can't have a one size fits all philosophy. You wouldn't ask Greg Maddux to pitch like Nolan Ryan. But both are HOF pitchers.

Some pitchers need to pitch down in the zone. Like if they have a lot of sink and don't throw as hard.

What happened last season is we had some guys that were scared to live up in the zone- so they nibbled or overthrew. Which led to getting behind in counts. Which led to baserunners. That was partially due to the recruiting gap between Henderson and Foxhall who had two different philosophies.

Foxhall did a really shitty job with our staff last year.

We also had some guys that tried to live up in the zone who had no business being there which resulted in several 400+ foot shots too.

[WSOPdawg]

To my understanding...

Foxhall wants our guys to pitch up in the zone to generate swings and misses and rack up K's. Which is a big reason why we led the SEC in K's a couple of years ago.

Best way to get ahead 0-2 IMO- THROW STIKES- don't nibble trying to get guys to chase. HAVE TO locate. When you nibble hitters in the SEC more often will take- and then they'll eliminate pitches and sit on your fastball if they get ahead in the count.

Foxhall's style works great for some pitchers- like Landon Sims. But it takes a skill set to pitch like that. Which Landon had. Hard four seam fastball with lots of MPH's and RPM's on it.

The thing about pitchers is they are all different. But because of that your pitching coach can't have a one size fits all philosophy. You wouldn't ask Greg Maddux to pitch like Nolan Ryan. But both are HOF pitchers.

Some pitchers need to pitch down in the zone. Like if they have a lot of sink and don't throw as hard.

What happened last season is we had some guys that were scared to live up in the zone- so they nibbled or overthrew. Which led to getting behind in counts. Which led to baserunners. That was partially due to the recruiting gap between Henderson and Foxhall who had two different philosophies.

Foxhall did a really shitty job with our staff last year.

Great response, Todd. As last season pushed into May and attrition on the mound had really hit us hard, it became really apparent how few pitchers we had that were suited for Foxhall's philosophy. I'm cautiously optimistic regarding this year's pitchers as I think we have closed the gap on the talent disparity between Henderson and Foxhall. Man, a week from Friday can't arrive soon enough.