What some of you don't get

[Cowbell]

When you hire a new HC, he is responsible for the W/L column ultimately. Arnette was hired to win. He wasn't hired to carry on the Leach legacy. He needs to have no excuses for failure which means you let the man do what he thinks is best. He owes us nothing to keep Leech's offense and it's nieve for some of you to think he does.

[HancockCountyDog]

When you hire a new HC, he is responsible for the W/L column ultimately. Arnette was hired to win. He wasn't hired to carry on the Leach legacy. He needs to have no excuses for failure which means you let the man do what he thinks is best. He owes us nothing to keep Leech's offense and it's nieve for some of you to think he does.

What I guess some of you don't understand is that my concern has nothing to do with Leach's legacy or his offense. It is about W's and L's.

The offense that we are about to be running is vastly different than what we have run the last 3 years. There will be different weight training, offseason workouts and most importantly personnel needed to run this offense.

I think we will have a salty defense next year, assuming we can replace a few key pieces. Offensively, we just need to be above average and maybe this will do that, but changing styles so much, could be 2018 all over again.

To be clear, I like the offensive system he runs. I just don't know if we have the personnel to run it.

[dawgday166]

When you hire a new HC, he is responsible for the W/L column ultimately. Arnette was hired to win. He wasn't hired to carry on the Leach legacy. He needs to have no excuses for failure which means you let the man do what he thinks is best. He owes us nothing to keep Leech's offense and it's nieve for some of you to think he does.

I get it and agree. Seems like a pretty big departure in philosophy to me tho ... but I ain't sure yet. Right now we got a lot of folks coming back and could have a better year than this year maybe ... we'll see.

[Cowbell]

What I guess some of you don't understand is that my concern has nothing to do with Leach's legacy or his offense. It is about W's and L's.

The offense that we are about to be running is vastly different than what we have run the last 3 years. There will be different weight training, offseason workouts and most importantly personnel needed to run this offense.

I think we will have a salty defense next year, assuming we can replace a few key pieces. Offensively, we just need to be above average and maybe this will do that, but changing styles so much, could be 2018 all over again.

To be clear, I like the offensive system he runs. I just don't know if we have the personnel to run it.

You are basing all of your concern on the assumption that we are going to run the exact same offense as app state. Some coaches do adapt....

[R2Dawg]

What I guess some of you don't understand is that my concern has nothing to do with Leach's legacy or his offense. It is about W's and L's.

The offense that we are about to be running is vastly different than what we have run the last 3 years. There will be different weight training, offseason workouts and most importantly personnel needed to run this offense.

I think we will have a salty defense next year, assuming we can replace a few key pieces. Offensively, we just need to be above average and maybe this will do that, but changing styles so much, could be 2018 all over again.

To be clear, I like the offensive system he runs. I just don't know if we have the personnel to run it.

We didn't have the personnel to run the air raid either or what Dan wanted when he first got here. Next year will have to be a hybrid O if we are smart and split the difference. Our D is good enough if the O can just be OK we'll win 6-7 again, no issue.

[Cooterpoot]

What I guess some of you don't understand is that my concern has nothing to do with Leach's legacy or his offense. It is about W's and L's.

The offense that we are about to be running is vastly different than what we have run the last 3 years. There will be different weight training, offseason workouts and most importantly personnel needed to run this offense.

I think we will have a salty defense next year, assuming we can replace a few key pieces. Offensively, we just need to be above average and maybe this will do that, but changing styles so much, could be 2018 all over again.

To be clear, I like the offensive system he runs. I just don't know if we have the personnel to run it.

Nah, that's over the top. We need TEs and a QB(to back up Will or compete). He's put up points, so he will figure it out. Workouts won't change. Same guy is running that. Just different guys and body types coming. We won't see a roster full of slot guys anymore, and that's a positive.

[Cooterpoot]

What I guess some of you don't understand is that my concern has nothing to do with Leach's legacy or his offense. It is about W's and L's.

The offense that we are about to be running is vastly different than what we have run the last 3 years. There will be different weight training, offseason workouts and most importantly personnel needed to run this offense.
This is a strong staff IMO.
I think we will have a salty defense next year, assuming we can replace a few key pieces. Offensively, we just need to be above average and maybe this will do that, but changing styles so much, could be 2018 all over again.

To be clear, I like the offensive system he runs. I just don't know if we have the personnel to run it.

Nah, that's over the top. We need TEs and a QB(to back up Will or compete). He's put up points, so he will figure it out. Workouts won't change. Same guy is running that. Just different guys and body types coming. We won't see a roster full of slot guys anymore, and that's a positive.

[Desoto1967]

It goes back to the JoMo years. Not running what suited the players you had. Just a wait and see on my part

[R2Dawg]

When you hire a new HC, he is responsible for the W/L column ultimately. Arnette was hired to win. He wasn't hired to carry on the Leach legacy. He needs to have no excuses for failure which means you let the man do what he thinks is best. He owes us nothing to keep Leech's offense and it's nieve for some of you to think he does.

Dead on cowbell. CZA gotta run what he thinks best. I don't even know what that is yet but I hope it has more balance and less predictability and exploits another teams weakness. New coach has always meant changes in plays and philosophy.

[HancockCountyDog]

You are basing all of your concern on the assumption that we are going to run the exact same offense as app state. Some coaches do adapt....

You don't hire a guy to run an offense he isn't comfortable running. That makes zero sense. Sure you adapt your offense to the players you have, but he is running his offense, otherwise - why in the hell would you hire him.

Its not like Arnett has an offensive system that he wants the new OC to run.

I expect us to run an offense similiar to what Central Michigan and App State have run. Its roughly a 60/40 run offense that is efficient passing the ball off play action

[msstate7]

You don't hire a guy to run an offense he isn't comfortable running. That makes zero sense. Sure you adapt your offense to the players you have, but he is running his offense, otherwise - why in the hell would you hire him.

Its not like Arnett has an offensive system that he wants the new OC to run.

I expect us to run an offense similiar to what Central Michigan and App State have run. Its roughly a 60/40 run offense that is efficient passing the ball off play action

You also don't hire a HC and tell him what offense to run

[HancockCountyDog]

We didn't have the personnel to run the air raid either or what Dan wanted when he first got here. Next year will have to be a hybrid O if we are smart and split the difference. Our D is good enough if the O can just be OK we'll win 6-7 again, no issue.

My concern is that you are 100% right. This would be a waste of a season, especially considering the defense should be really good and the schedule is way more favorable. We have a legit shot at 10 wins and after next year, we lose a ton of players that will have used up their extra covid year.

Next year has the potential to be a 10 win season - i don't want to go through a 2018 or 2020 season while we adjust our entire offense.

[TrapGame]

It goes back to the JoMo years. Not running what suited the players you had. Just a wait and see on my part

JoMo could have adapted his offense to what we had. Hud and the OL coach under JoMo tried to show him that. That's why we beat the snot outta AU and A&M that year. JoMo flat out refused to change his scheme to accommodate what he had on his roster.

[HoopsDawg]

I need more research but I share your concerns. I'm not seeing tempo, I'm not seeing multiple formations, I'm not seeing creative QB runs which is good for Will but not good long term.

[HancockCountyDog]

You also don't hire a HC and tell him what offense to run

Don't you wish we had told JOMO what offense to run?

My concern is that coaches can be hard headed and will waste a potentially really good defense while we completely overhaul the offense. I was all for adapting our offense to have more run plays, that was essential, but this is going from Air Raid to Ground and Pound.

Any objective look at the stats at Central Michigan and App State would confirm that.

The one thing I do like though is that he has not required a running QB.

[msstate7]

Don't you wish we had told JOMO what offense to run?

My concern is that coaches can be hard headed and will waste a potentially really good defense while we completely overhaul the offense. I was all for adapting our offense to have more run plays, that was essential, but this is going from Air Raid to Ground and Pound.

Any objective look at the stats at Central Michigan and App State would confirm that.

The one thing I do like though is that he has not required a running QB.

No, I think a HC should be able to do it exactly how he wants. I have very little patience though, so I wouldn't tell him to fire an OC or something later... I'd just fire him. If we believed in ZA as the HC, then I want him to have full reign to sink or swim

[HoopsDawg]

Don't you wish we had told JOMO what offense to run?

My concern is that coaches can be hard headed and will waste a potentially really good defense while we completely overhaul the offense. I was all for adapting our offense to have more run plays, that was essential, but this is going from Air Raid to Ground and Pound.

Any objective look at the stats at Central Michigan and App State would confirm that.

The one thing I do like though is that he has not required a running QB.

The good news is, if he sucks, Arnett can go find a new OC. That's the upside of a defensive head coach

[DownwardDawg]

What I guess some of you don't understand is that my concern has nothing to do with Leach's legacy or his offense. It is about W's and L's.

The offense that we are about to be running is vastly different than what we have run the last 3 years. There will be different weight training, offseason workouts and most importantly personnel needed to run this offense.

I think we will have a salty defense next year, assuming we can replace a few key pieces. Offensively, we just need to be above average and maybe this will do that, but changing styles so much, could be 2018 all over again.

To be clear, I like the offensive system he runs. I just don't know if we have the personnel to run it.
Most of us told everyone on this board Multiple Times when we hired Leach that we would be right here where we are today. Obviously, no one expected Leach to pass away. Most of us figured he'd be here 5 years at max and then we would be revamping the offense. Well, it's happened just like we said it would. That offense was run by one person in the world. MSU recruits players that spend their entire lives running a run spread type offense.
Had Mullen been a better play caller and not scared to death, we would have played in the SECCG a couple times with his offense. And no, I'm not saying run the Mullen offense.

[DownwardDawg]

The good news is, if he sucks, Arnett can go find a new OC. That's the upside of a defensive head coach

Imagine that!!! Brilliant simplicity!!!

[MrCoachKlein]

The good news is, if he sucks, Arnett can go find a new OC. That's the upside of a defensive head coach

Downside is that you have so many more offensive schemes and terminology, that when one leaves you have to rebuild the offensive roster and learn a new language.

[schddog72]

It goes back to the JoMo years. Not running what suited the players you had. Just a wait and see on my part

JoMo would not have won here with a roster full of 5 stars. Too much of a laid back slacker that let the inmates run the asylum. Well suited to by an OC with a disciplined HC running the show. He was totally out of his element and in over his head as an SEC HC.

[mo7888]

When you hire a new HC, he is responsible for the W/L column ultimately. Arnette was hired to win. He wasn't hired to carry on the Leach legacy. He needs to have no excuses for failure which means you let the man do what he thinks is best. He owes us nothing to keep Leech's offense and it's nieve for some of you to think he does.

Ok, if that's the standard and he goes 7-5 next year with an easier schedule he should get plenty of criticism....

[mo7888]

You also don't hire a HC and tell him what offense to run

I actually think that's what we just did through our boosters...

[Homedawg]

I actually think that's what we just did through our boosters...

You think our boosters made these hires??? SMH

[Coach34]

Ok, if that's the standard and he goes 7-5 next year with an easier schedule he should get plenty of criticism....

We dont have an easier schedule next year

We play Auburn, A&M, SC, and UPig on the road instead of home. We play LSU and Bama at home.

So we have the usual Bama and LSU losses- and tougher road schedule. Home schedule is tougher next year and road schedule remains tough

[HoopsDawg]

We dont have an easier schedule next year

We play Auburn, A&M, SC, and UPig on the road instead of home. We play LSU and Bama at home.

So we have the usual Bama and LSU losses- and tougher road schedule. Home schedule is tougher next year and road schedule remains tough

Our opponents were so bad this year. Very lucky. AU, A&M, Arkansas without KJ, UK and Ole Miss. then 4 cake noncoference games

[mo7888]

We dont have an easier schedule next year

We play Auburn, A&M, SC, and UPig on the road instead of home. We play LSU and Bama at home.

So we have the usual Bama and LSU losses- and tougher road schedule. Home schedule is tougher next year and road schedule remains tough

Do we play Georgia this year? Or did they get replaced....but nice job trying to lower the bar..

[mo7888]

You think our boosters made these hires??? SMH

I think there was a lot of pressure to bring home Bump and bring in Friend...probably a good bit for Turner too (but I think he's an upgrade). As for offensive philosophy (which was what my post responded to), ZA said shortly after he was hired that we were going to with a similar offensive scheme as we had been using...now we're not so something changed...

[Really Clark?]

I think there was a lot of pressure to bring home Bump and bring in Friend...probably a good bit for Turner too (but I think he's an upgrade). As for offensive philosophy (which was what my post responded to), ZA said shortly after he was hired that we were going to with a similar offensive scheme as we had been using...now we're not so something changed...

Leach tried hire Bump last year, Didn't see anyone blasting boosters were pushing him to do so a year ago.

[Coach34]

Do we play Georgia this year? Or did they get replaced....but nice job trying to lower the bar..

So what?

Playing a team away is harder than playing them at home- otherwise the home team wouldnt win 67% of SEC games. Our toss-ups were mostly at home in 2022- in 2023 they will be on the road. That makes it harder

[Homedawg]

I think there was a lot of pressure to bring home Bump and bring in Friend...probably a good bit for Turner too (but I think he's an upgrade). As for offensive philosophy (which was what my post responded to), ZA said shortly after he was hired that we were going to with a similar offensive scheme as we had been using...now we're not so something changed...

Let's say your right on bump? And while they might have wanted him, ZA wasn't forced to take anyone. Not a soul. Why friend?? He has zero reasons for our boosters to push for him. Zero.

[confucius say]

We dont have an easier schedule next year

We play Auburn, A&M, SC, and UPig on the road instead of home. We play LSU and Bama at home.

So we have the usual Bama and LSU losses- and tougher road schedule. Home schedule is tougher next year and road schedule remains tough

You can't be serious. Our SOS was top 5 in 2022. See below.

But if your want to get into home and away:
Three G5/FCS noncon are all home like last year.

You get AZ at home instead of road. Easier.
You get USCe away instead of UGA home. Easier.
You get KY at home instead of road. Easier.
Your get OM at home instead of road. Easier.
You get Bama at home instead of road. Easier.
You get LSU at home instead or road. Easier.

Aggie, auburn, and Ark are away so harder.

https://volswire.usatoday.com/lists/2022-college-football-final-top-25-fbs-strength-of-schedule-rankings/

[msstate7]

Delete

[Really Clark?]

You can't be serious. Our SOS was top 5 in 2022. See below.

But if your want to get into home and away:
Three G5/FCS noncon are all home like last year.

You get AZ at home instead of road. Easier.
You get USCe away instead of UGA home. Easier.
You get KY at home instead of road. Easier.
Your get OM at home instead of road. Easier.
You get Bama at home instead of road. Easier.
You get LSU at home instead or road. Easier.

Aggie, auburn, and Ark are away so harder.

https://volswire.usatoday.com/lists/2022-college-football-final-top-25-fbs-strength-of-schedule-rankings/

Not that we didn't have difficult schedule but that one is a good bit higher than everyone else. Several has our SOS and SOS power rankings between 14 and 20th nationally. One had us at 26 but that's a low outlier.

[Coach34]

You can't be serious. Our SOS was top 5 in 2022. See below.

But if your want to get into home and away:
Three G5/FCS noncon are all home like last year.

You get AZ at home instead of road. Easier.
You get USCe away instead of UGA home. Easier.
You get KY at home instead of road. Easier.
Your get OM at home instead of road. Easier.
You get Bama at home instead of road. Easier.
You get LSU at home instead or road. Easier.

Aggie, auburn, and Ark are away so harder.

https://volswire.usatoday.com/lists/2022-college-football-final-top-25-fbs-strength-of-schedule-rankings/

A) Any list that doesnt include UPig in the top 5 is not complete. They played 11 bowl teams this year

B) LSU will be better next year than they were this year

C) It doesnt matter where we play Bama- eliminate that one

D) Arizona last year wasnt a hard game. 1st year of a rebuild. They will likely be improved this season

E) We will still be an underdog at SC

F) Rivalry game vs Mississippi with their QB returning- will be about the same

[Coursesuper]

I think there was a lot of pressure to bring home Bump and bring in Friend...probably a good bit for Turner too (but I think he's an upgrade). As for offensive philosophy (which was what my post responded to), ZA said shortly after he was hired that we were going to with a similar offensive scheme as we had been using...now we're not so something changed...

This is absolutely not home to Will Friend, he only lived here as a small child. This ain?t home. I for one can see that right now boosters are as far away from the program now as they have been in the last 10 years.

[Homedawg]

So what?

Playing a team away is harder than playing them at home- otherwise the home team wouldnt win 67% of SEC games. Our toss-ups were mostly at home in 2022- in 2023 they will be on the road. That makes it harder

I agree

[Homedawg]

This is absolutely not home to Will Friend, he only lived here as a small child. This ain?t home. I for one can see that right now boosters are as far away from the program now as they have been in the last 10 years.

Correct when chuck was an assistant. Before he ever went to neshoba to be head coach. That was early 80's and it was a short stay

[Commercecomet24]

This is absolutely not home to Will Friend, he only lived here as a small child. This ain?t home. I for one can see that right now boosters are as far away from the program now as they have been in the last 10 years.

Yep.

[Saltydog]

We shall see but for someone who's responsible for W's and L's, well trying to implement a completely different offense without the kind of personnel you need sounds like a recipe for disaster. I guess that remains to be seen but you can't convince me we couldn't have gotten someone to tweak and upgrade what we had which I think would've yielded positive results.

[RisperDawg]

Most of us told everyone on this board Multiple Times when we hired Leach that we would be right here where we are today. Obviously, no one expected Leach to pass away. Most of us figured he'd be here 5 years at max and then we would be revamping the offense. Well, it's happened just like we said it would. That offense was run by one person in the world. MSU recruits players that spend their entire lives running a run spread type offense.
Had Mullen been a better play caller and not scared to death, we would have played in the SECCG a couple times with his offense. And no, I'm not saying run the Mullen offense.

I'm sorry, i know most posters chose to keep moving and not engage with this nonsense, but I just can't. You were right about your ultimate proposed outcome, so you called it? Lol. What you posted is like claiming Earth will be uninhabitable in five years due to nuclear war. I mean it's obvious, right? Then we get blindsided by a Texas-sized asteroid and you say, "See? I told you so." Insane.

Neither you nor I nor anyone else knows where we would be with CML in year five, and we unfortunately never will.

[Coursesuper]

Correct when chuck was an assistant. Before he ever went to neshoba to be head coach. That was early 80's and it was a short stay

Yep I played for Chuck in 80 and 81.

[R2Dawg]

My concern is that you are 100% right. This would be a waste of a season, especially considering the defense should be really good and the schedule is way more favorable. We have a legit shot at 10 wins and after next year, we lose a ton of players that will have used up their extra covid year.

Next year has the potential to be a 10 win season - i don't want to go through a 2018 or 2020 season while we adjust our entire offense.

True and I understand but we did a worse change when we brought Leach in and it didn't seem to matter?

That is one reason why I didn't like it 3 years ago, too big a change that puts us in a bad spot twice - then and now after he is gone. Our goose was cooked on your concern the day we went that direction 3 years ago.

We are still going to throw the ball, we still need a good QB and WR along with other positions. I don't think much has changed there. How they are coached and plays - yeah will be different but different ain't all bad.

[dawgday166]

True and I understand but we did a worse change when we brought Leach in and it didn't see to matter?

That is one reason why I didn't like it 3 years ago, too big a change that puts us in a bad spot twice - then and now after he is gone. Our goose was cooked on your concern the day we went that direction 3 years ago.


3 years ago we were in a hole personnel and culture wise and needed a rebuild. Then was the time to overhaul things and start from scratch. (Not saying our current situation is starting from scratch cause I really don't know yet).

Now we have a good culture, a LOT of experience returning so hopefully this won't be a big adjustment for the offensive personnel we have and acquire via the portal. Sorta like 2018 was (not quite but similar).

[R2Dawg]

3 years ago we were in a hole personnel and culture wise and needed a rebuild. Then was the time to overhaul things and start from scratch. (Not saying our current situation is starting from scratch cause I really don't know yet).

Now we have a good culture, a LOT of experience returning so hopefully this won't be a big adjustment for the offensive personnel we have and acquire via the portal. Sorta like 2018 was (not quite but similar).

Agree but culture got nothing to do with type O. We could have changed the culture and done whatever on O. I don't think the change for us now will be that bad.

Those saying OL, we did OK last year after losing Cross and we lose NFL OL every year it seems. We'll be fine.

[MrCoachKlein]

We shall see but for someone who's responsible for W's and L's, well trying to implement a completely different offense without the kind of personnel you need sounds like a recipe for disaster. I guess that remains to be seen but you can't convince me we couldn't have gotten someone to tweak and upgrade what we had which I think would've yielded positive results.

The only personnel that he needs that we don't have are TEs. That was going to be the case with any OC we hired.

[dawgday166]

Agree but culture got nothing to do with type O. We could have changed the culture and done whatever on O.


That's what I was saying. Doing "whatever on O" then was low impact. Doing "whatever on O" now (depending on what "whatever" is) might cost us a really good season. Whatever in 2018 cost us a really good season.

[MrCoachKlein]

That's what I was saying. Doing "whatever on O" then was low impact. Doing "whatever on O" now (depending on what "whatever" is) might cost us a really good season. Whatever in 2018 cost us a really good season.

I think it could have, but we got an OC that only needs TEs. Our OL arguably run blocks better than pass, Will can run RPOs and isn't required to run the ball in this offense.

[Cowbell]

Bumping because some of our new posters need a reminder.

Arnette was responsible for more wins last season than our OC....prove me wrong.

[Pancho]

Cowbell gets it. It's remarkable what a stiff D and better than avg Special Teams can do in college football. Let the guys who want to play for the name on the back of the jersey split and let CZA run this show.