Kiffin's Offical Contract Sheet

[Really Clark?]

As stated on here before, the offical sheet submitted for approval and obtained by the CL is for 4 years. No mention in writing about additional years. They know the state will not approve more than 4 years, running it through the private foundation makes no difference.

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/ole-miss/2023/01/10/lane-kiffin-contract-ole-miss-football-official-terms/69795792007/

[WinningIsRelentless]

As stated on here before, the offical sheet submitted for approval and obtained by the CL is for 4 years. No mention in writing about additional years. They know the state will not approve more than 4 years, running it through the private foundation makes no difference.

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/ole-miss/2023/01/10/lane-kiffin-contract-ole-miss-football-official-terms/69795792007/

They gave the idiot a six year deal thru the grove collective. That?s why they came out with the 10 million figure. They are using the vast majority of it on Lane Train.

[Really Clark?]

They gave the idiot a six year deal thru the grove collective. That?s why they came out with the 10 million figure. They are using the vast majority of it on Lane Train.

They can't though. His actual contract cannot be more than 4 years. They have tried this multiple times and each time the Official contract and term sheet is for 4 years only.

[WinningIsRelentless]

They can't though. His actual contract cannot be more than 4 years. They have tried this multiple times and each time the Official contract and term sheet is for 4 years only.

Oh yes they can. The grove collective isn?t tied to the university like the athletic foundation is. It has to be third party per ncaa rules.

[Thick]

They can't though. His actual contract cannot be more than 4 years. They have tried this multiple times and each time the Official contract and term sheet is for 4 years only.

So you?re saying that the foundation doesn?t have to report what they are paying in addition to his 4 year state contract? He?s getting paid regardless, and everyone knows the state only allows 4 year contracts. Am I missing something? Just asking

[TrapGame]

I hope he bleeds them dry.

[Really Clark?]

Oh yes they can. The grove collective isn?t tied to the university like the athletic foundation is. It has to be third party per ncaa rules.

They have to report his salary just like they have done on this sheet. Kiffin is an employee of the state and his contract has to be approved by the state and they will not approve more than 4 years. NCAA rules cannot circumvent State law

[Really Clark?]

So you?re saying that the foundation doesn?t have to report what they are paying in addition to his 4 year state contract? He?s getting paid regardless, and everyone knows the state only allows 4 year contracts. Am I missing something? Just asking

I'm saying what he may have with the foundation cannot be a part of his official signed contract approved by the state and that contract is including his salary per year and the terms of that contract. Just because an outside entity is paying a portion of the deal doesn't circumvent the state law of the terms

[confucius say]

They are not the only school in the state to have ever done this. I'll just leave it there.

[deltadawg63]

Correct. Anyone can have a personal services contract for any length of time one can reach agreement upon in the private sector which would be a collective or private foundation.

[WinningIsRelentless]

Correct. Anyone can have a personal services contract for any length of time one can reach agreement upon in the private sector which would be a collective or private foundation.

Bingo.

[MaroonFlounder]

They won’t reveal what the buyout is.

Wonder why? LOL.

[Really Clark?]

"While athletic foundations may pay most or all of football coaches salaries, they do not employ coaches. The universities do. The IHL Board requires athletic foundation funds to pass through the universities to the coaches, i.e., no direct payments to coaches. That made it abundantly clear that coaches were university employees and subject institutional control."

"While news reports cited state law as the issue with contract limits, it's actually the state constitution. Section 213-A reads in part: Such board shall have the power and authority to elect the heads of the various institutions of higher learning, and contract with all deans, professors and other members of the teaching staff, and all administrative employees of said institutions for a term not exceeding four (4) years."

And here is also why foundations can't override state constitution, you can do the same for AD's, assistant coaches, private academic foundations could do the exact same for the presidents, etc. You can't circumvent the state constitution without opening the door to endless precedents that violates the state law.

[Pancho]

lotta cash for a 6 or 7 win season in 23

[WinningIsRelentless]

Correct. Anyone can have a personal services contract for any length of time one can reach agreement upon in the private sector which would be a collective or private foundation.


"While athletic foundations may pay most or all of football coaches salaries, they do not employ coaches. The universities do. The IHL Board requires athletic foundation funds to pass through the universities to the coaches, i.e., no direct payments to coaches. That made it abundantly clear that coaches were university employees and subject institutional control."

"While news reports cited state law as the issue with contract limits, it's actually the state constitution. Section 213-A reads in part: Such board shall have the power and authority to elect the heads of the various institutions of higher learning, and contract with all deans, professors and other members of the teaching staff, and all administrative employees of said institutions for a term not exceeding four (4) years."

And here is also why foundations can't override state constitution, you can do the same for AD's, assistant coaches, private academic foundations could do the exact same for the presidents, etc. You can't circumvent the state constitution without opening the door to endless precedents that violates the state law.

The collective isn?t an athletic foundation! Send a FOIA to one and see what happens. They are private businesses so they can lock into any deal they like.

[Really Clark?]

The collective isn?t an athletic foundation! Send a FOIA to one and see what happens. They are private businesses so they can lock into any deal they like.

That is from the IHL Board directly. The foundation, private or otherwise cannot contract an employee of a public university to work for the university. ALL employee contracts must go through the IHL. Period. Why do you think his salary had to be run through the university and reported by the university on a term of 4 years? Regardless if they are private or not, the school employees him and are bound by the IHL Board and the constitution.

[WinningIsRelentless]

That is from the IHL Board directly. The foundation, private or otherwise cannot contract an employee of a public university to work for the university. ALL employee contracts must go through the IHL. Period. Why do you think his salary had to be run through the university and reported by the university on a term of 4 years? Regardless if they are private or not, the school employees him and are bound by the IHL Board and the constitution.

So all our nil deals have to go thru the college board? No they don?t.

[Really Clark?]

So all our nil deals have to go thru the college board? No they don?t.

What?? No player is employed by the university. How did you jump to that conclusion?

[Leroy Jenkins]

So all our nil deals have to go thru the college board? No they don?t.

Students are not university employees. Unless its a service academy, no NIL.

[Ari Gold]

OM is FINALLY relevant with the big boys in college football... congrats.. I guess

[WinningIsRelentless]

What?? No player is employed by the university. How did you jump to that conclusion?


Students are not university employees. Unless it?s a service academy, no NIL.

Y?all keep thinking that. The state can?t do anything about what the collective enters into.

I know see why we tend to always behind the curve. We never think outside the box.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Its almost as bad as their offense is after the first quarter

[State82]

State employees have side jobs all the time. You don't think engineers with the state don't do private consulting? Happens all the time. Just as long as it doesn't interfere with their state job. I do not see how he could be prohibited from "consulting" with another entity.

[Really Clark?]

State employees have side jobs all the time. You don't think engineers with the state don't do private consulting? Happens all the time. Just as long as it doesn't interfere with their state job. I do not see how he could be prohibited from "consulting" with another entity.

We are talking about his contract to coach for a public university, employed by the university. He can make $20 Mil a year for 20 years giving talks and handjobs to the private foundation outside of the university. That's irrelevant to an employee's contract with the university that must be ratified by the IHL board and comply with state law. Coaches do outside speaking engagements, clinics, etc. for fees all the time. That is not tied to the university contract. He does not have a contract to coach for OM for more than 4 years and for more money than what was listed on the term sheet. He cannot and a private foundation can't do that.

[Leroy Jenkins]

Y?all keep thinking that. The state can?t do anything about what the collective enters into.

I know see why we tend to always behind the curve. We never think outside the box.

Behind what curve? You mean the perception curve? Where were they ranked this year?

[Really Clark?]

Y?all keep thinking that. The state can?t do anything about what the collective enters into.

I know see why we tend to always behind the curve. We never think outside the box.

Keep thinking what? You are completely wrong if you think any player is an employee of the state.

[WinningIsRelentless]

What?? No player is employed by the university. How did you jump to that conclusion?


Students are not university employees. Unless its a service academy, no NIL.


Keep thinking what? You are completely wrong if you think any player is an employee of the state.

And you are wrong if you think Kiffin can?t sign a 6 or 8 year deal with the grove collective.

[Really Clark?]

And you are wrong if you think Kiffin can?t sign a 6 or 8 year deal with the grove collective.

You said players like they are state employees. You are as wrong as you can be. You are now going back to Kiffin since you realize that was completely inaccurate. He cannot sign a contract to COACH for OM as an employee of the state of MS for more than 4 years. No matter who is paying, private or otherwise. This is why the term sheet of his contract that was obtained through FOA is for 4 years only. Period. Believe what you want but no matter how many times they announce a 6-8 contract for a coach, what is actually signed is for no more than 4 years every time the contract is revealed.

[WinningIsRelentless]

What?? No player is employed by the university. How did you jump to that conclusion?


Students are not university employees. Unless its a service academy, no NIL.


You said players like they are state employees. You are as wrong as you can be. You are now going back to Kiffin since you realize that was completely inaccurate. He cannot sign a contract to COACH for OM as an employee of the state of MS for more than 4 years. No matter who is paying, private or otherwise. This is why the term sheet of his contract that was obtained through FOA is for 4 years only. Period. Believe what you want but no matter how many times they announce a 6-8 contract for a coach, what is actually signed is for no more than 4 years every time the contract is revealed.

What is preventing the grove collective from signing kiffin to an 8 year NIL deal? The state doesn?t have authority over the grove collective. Yea it?s stupid to tie yourself up like they but they are arrogant enough to do it.

[Really Clark?]

What is preventing the grove collective from signing kiffin to an 8 year NIL deal? The state doesn?t have authority over the grove collective. Yea it?s stupid to tie yourself up like they but they are arrogant enough to do it.

The rules disallowing coaches from entering NIL deals. It's for student athletes not coaches. And why would they? They have been able to get paid for commercials and the like for forever.

[WinningIsRelentless]

The rules disallowing coaches from entering NIL deals. It's for student athletes not coaches. And why would they? They have been able to get paid for commercials and the like for forever.

Well ole miss is using it to skirt the law in MS and it?s nothing the college board can do about it, right now at least.

[Really Clark?]

Well ole miss is using it to skirt the law in MS and it?s nothing the college board can do about it, right now at least.

NIL? They most certainly are not using that to pay a coach. You do know that they have to report those monies right? Let someone find out a coach is receiving compensation through the NIL. Reporting is done on the foundation side (NCAA and federal and state depending if the are a 501c3 or for profit as a LLC on how they report) and the student athlete side (income tax, FASA)

[Bdawg]

Y?all seem to be arguing over semantics. Looks like the collective could go in an agreement with Kiffin for a ?second job? and pay him whatever they want to make up for the 4 year deal. There are always ways around the law and I?m sure they know how to do it. The collective may not pay him for ?coaching? by law but hell I?m sure they can make up whatever they want to complete the longer contract they want. May be 4 years on paper with the university and some ?other job? worked out with the collective. I may be wrong but I could see them trying that.

[WinningIsRelentless]

NIL? They most certainly are not using that to pay a coach. You do know that they have to report those monies right? Let someone find out a coach is receiving compensation through the NIL. Reporting is done on the foundation side (NCAA and federal and state depending if the are a 501c3 or for profit as a LLC on how they report) and the student athlete side (income tax, FASA)

You are clueless. Who are they reporting the collective nil payments too? Irs in the form of 1099 yes. But the collectives are reporting to college board.

[Bothrops]

lotta cash for a 6 or 7 win season in 23

This

[Really Clark?]

You are clueless. Who are they reporting the collective nil payments too? Irs in the form of 1099 yes. But the collectives are reporting to college board.

Look the Grove Collective is an LLC and their are laws on the books about NIL in the state already. They have state and federal requirements they have to fulfill and the student athlete or their family have to report these monies on their 1040 and that goes to FASA as well. You try slipping millions of dollars to a coach that is NOT entitled to NIL money and just see how big of lawsuit his own players file not to mention the state and federal getting involved. You don't know what you are talking about.

[Leroy Jenkins]

Man, I wish it was legal. Every dollar they spent on Kiffin is one less dollar they could recruit with.

[Pancho]

Wait til they lose @ Tulane to the Fritz wave machine early next season

[WinningIsRelentless]

Look the Grove Collective is an LLC and there are laws on the books about NIL in the state already. They have state and federal requirements they have to fulfill and the student athlete or their family have to report these monies on their 1040 and that goes to FASA as well. You try slipping millions of dollars to a coach that is NOT entitled to NIL money and just see how big of lawsuit his own players file not to mention the state and federal getting involved. You don't know what you are talking about.

Show me the laws saying the collectives can?t give a coach a deal. I?ll be waiting because they are a business and can give contracts to whomever they want.

[Johnson85]

That is from the IHL Board directly. The foundation, private or otherwise cannot contract an employee of a public university to work for the university. ALL employee contracts must go through the IHL. Period. Why do you think his salary had to be run through the university and reported by the university on a term of 4 years? Regardless if they are private or not, the school employees him and are bound by the IHL Board and the constitution.

Private parties will likely not pay him unless he is no longer an empire of the university.

[Hot Rock]

I will hire a Lane to be my consultant on retainer for 8 years. Oh, his only duty is to breathe air. Done. I didn't hire him to work for the University. I hired him to breathe.

[Really Clark?]

Show me the laws saying the collectives can?t give a coach a deal. I?ll be waiting because they are a business and can give contracts to whomever they want.

It's literally in every part of the law. Just pull it up for yourself. It's incredibly easy to find. NIL is for student athletes only. They absolutely cannot divert NIL funds to pay a coach.

[Desoto1967]

So its against the law. Who will do anything about it?

[Really Clark?]

Guys the point is OM, the university itself, announced they are giving Lane a 6-8 year deal and have a way to write that contract to get around the state law because of the funds and terms will go through the private foundation. But again, as they have tried this before, they cannot give him a contract longer than 4 years per state law and what they had ultimately file was his complete compensation, even the private funds, and the 4 year term. Because the state and the IHL will not allow that contract to be written to COACH for a public university. To allow that is to disband the IHL and state governance for all employee contracts at the university's. They cannot allow a precedent for a coach, to do so would allow a private foundation to hire a university president and AD for 20 years if we so choose...but you cannot. The state constitution will not allow it.

[Really Clark?]

So its against the law. Who will do anything about it?

Nobody has to because they wrote 4 year contract because they could not circumvent the law

[WinningIsRelentless]

It's literally in every part of the law. Just pull it up for yourself. It's incredibly easy to find. NIL is for student athletes only. They absolutely cannot divert NIL funds to pay a coach.

The laws on state what athletes do. It doesn?t regulate what the business (collective) can and can?t do.

Pick up the phone and call Charlie and ask him if the bulldog collective wanted to enter into an agreement with Arnett if they legally could.

[Really Clark?]

The laws on state what athletes do. It doesn?t regulate what the business (collective) can and can?t do.

Pick up the phone and call Charlie and ask him if the bulldog collective wanted to enter into an agreement with Arnett if they legally could.

With NIL money? You have lost the plot dude. NIL money cannot be used to pay a coach. You have continuously brought up using NIL money. That is to pay the student athletes. Coaches can't get paid from that money and they can't put money into the NIL fund.

[WinningIsRelentless]

With NIL money? You have lost the plot dude. NIL money cannot be used to pay a coach. You have continuously brought up using NIL money. That is to pay the student athletes. Coaches can't get paid from that money and they can't put money into the NIL fund.
What is NIL money and what mechanism is Ole Miss Alum using to collect it? Is this mechanism a free business and can enter into whatever contract with parties they see fit? Who regulates what contracts this free enterprise business enters into besides standard IRS rules?

[Really Clark?]

What is NIL money and what mechanism is Ole Miss Alum using to collect it? Is this mechanism a free business and can enter into whatever contract with parties they see fit? Who regulates what contracts this free enterprise business enters into besides standard IRS rules?

NIL money is used to compensate student athletes ONLY for their Name, Image and Likeness. The student athlete enters into a contract that they have to notify the university within 72 hours to review and it has to comply with NCAA rules and state law. (Federal law and regulation pending). In no way can an employee of the university, namely the HC for this discussion, can be apart of those deals. Either for themselves, to put money into the NIL fund, or to even be a part of the actual deal for the student athlete. Private business or not, they still have to comply with state law.

[WinningIsRelentless]

NIL money is used to compensate student athletes ONLY for their Name, Image and Likeness. The student athlete enters into a contract that they have to notify the university within 72 hours to review and it has to comply with NCAA rules and state law. (Federal law and regulation pending). In no way can an employee of the university, namely the HC for this discussion, can be apart of those deals. Either for themselves, to put money into the NIL fund, or to even be a part of the actual deal for the student athlete. Private business or not, they still have to comply with state law.

Show me in that offer sheet/contract kiffin is about to sign where it states he can?t have endorsement deals.

[Really Clark?]

Show me in that offer sheet/contract kiffin is about to sign where it states he can?t have endorsement deals.

Man look you are completely mixing up NIL money and what it can be used for. You are just completely wrong. Of course he can, they all do. Hell Saban and Prime are on every commercial break with AFLAC. That is completely irrelevant to NIL money and how they can be used and his actual contract with the university to coach for them, the total compensation and terms of that contract. Which is accounted for in that official term sheet, 4 years only and ALL compensation, including private monies, are accounted for.

[PikeDawg15]

Some of these threads just go on and on and I give up trying to read them . Good example is the OC hot board right now with almost 700 replies


I will say this about kiffin

I don?t know exactly how the lane kiffin saga ends at ole miss but I will tell you this

They have 2 automatic losses built into their schedule next season

@alabama L
@ UGA L

then they play at home vs LSU who in my opinion will be even better next year and win the west again so that?s another loss

@ auburn with Hugh Freeze
@ miss st

They will lose one of those games Atleast
If we can get an offense that will just be more consistent and can put Atleast 30 points on them , I think we beat them in starkville

Vs Arkansas
Vs vandy
Vs A&M
I think they win 2 of those 3

The game that can cause an absolute panic mode fire kiffin frenzy in oxford is week 2
@Tulane

If they lose @Tulane in week 2 , they are set up for a season that they will struggle to make a bowl game


I?m not sure that Ole Miss will be better this season than last season

They are losing their 2 best receivers Mingo and Heath

Losing 2 of their best defensive players

Losing Zach Evans

They are going to go Heavy Transfer portal again and doing that every single year will not lead to sustained success

My prediction for them next season is 7-5

[WinningIsRelentless]

Man look you are completely mixing up NIL money and what it can be used for. You are just completely wrong. Of course he can, they all do. Hell Saban and Prime are on every commercial break with AFLAC. That is completely irrelevant to NIL money and how they can be used and his actual contract with the university to coach for them, the total compensation and terms of that contract. Which is accounted for in that official term sheet, 4 years only and ALL compensation, including private monies, are accounted for.

No you are missing the point. The Grove Collective signed Kiffin to a 2 year agreement for the period of 1-1-27 thru 12-31-28 for whatever amount they agreed upon. This gives kiffin his 9 million over 6 years and skirts state law.

Is this smart of ole miss, probably not. But it?s not against the law either. Kiffin doesn?t care where the money comes from so it?s a win win for him.

[Johnson85]

Guys the point is OM, the university itself, announced they are giving Lane a 6-8 year deal and have a way to write that contract to get around the state law because of the funds and terms will go through the private foundation. But again, as they have tried this before, they cannot give him a contract longer than 4 years per state law and what they had ultimately file was his complete compensation, even the private funds, and the 4 year term. Because the state and the IHL will not allow that contract to be written to COACH for a public university. To allow that is to disband the IHL and state governance for all employee contracts at the university's. They cannot allow a precedent for a coach, to do so would allow a private foundation to hire a university president and AD for 20 years if we so choose...but you cannot. The state constitution will not allow it.

You are missing (at least) two things. First, the constitution does not say what you think it says. It just says there can't be a contract with the university to be an employee of the university that is longer than 4 years. It doesn't say that university employees can't do endorsement deals or moonlight or otherwise seek additional income outside of their employment contract.

Second, you are missing that there is (currently) no mechanism for the IHL interfere with Lane's contracts with private parties (they may not even have the ability to require it to be produced). The IHL may have the authority to issue regulations or rules that require university employees at a certain level to have anti-moonlighting provisions in their contract and/or require that all compensation be reported and that prohibits employees from accepting third party payments or promises of payment related to continued employment. But they don't have those rules in place now and aren't going to be able to void contracts retroactively. So if Lane has a contract with some third party that is not under the control of the university, and the third party agrees to compensate Kiffin a certain amount if he is not the coach of UM in any or all of the years 5 through 8 and it wasn't because he voluntarily quit or was fired for cause, then the IHL can't raelly do anything about it. IF things go south, the third party might could try to prevent enforcement claiming that it was a way for the university to get around the constitutional limit and shouldn't be enforced, but I'm not sure how viable that claim would be when it's a private party asking the court to relieve him/her/it of the consequences of its own scheme. The worst case scenario would be for them to enforce the payments but then claim that was money de facto donated/pledged to the university and the university officials that signed off on the deal are responsible for restitution to the university.

[Really Clark?]

No you are missing the point. The Grove Collective signed Kiffin to a 2 year agreement for the period of 1-1-27 thru 12-31-28 for whatever amount they agreed upon. This gives kiffin his 9 million over 6 years and skirts state law.

Is this smart of ole miss, probably not. But it?s not against the law either. Kiffin doesn?t care where the money comes from so it?s a win win for him.

You have been constantly saying NIL money. They didn't do that and cannot do that.

They may try to sign him for some endorsement like you are saying with money in another account but it will never be NIL money, that has to be used for student athletes. Any money collected for NIL has to be used for student athletes only.

Monies outside of the NIL that they use for an endorsement, absolutely fine but if he is still there at that point, his coaching contract monies have to come from elsewhere, NOT whatever contract you think he may have signed as an endorsement. Let them get audited for $18 MIL for endorsement money on the books as that they try to use that to pay his coaching contract. So he would have an $18 MIL endorsement deal and then an additional $18 MIL for his coaching salary. Great!! Paying him more and let Sexton renegotiate for even higher monies every year! Fantastic!! But those monies can't mix. They are still an LLC in Mississippi and have federal and state guidelines they have to comply with and NCAA rules they have to adhere too. I know I know but I think we can all agree that nobody thinks it's a good idea to steal NIL money from student athletes to pay a coach who already has millions. The PR hit alone would devastate a program. Never mind the lawsuits and state and federal enforcement.

What they are doing most likely is. they have built end rollover extensions IF he meets certain criteria. Like he gets a bonus if he is still the coach by 12/31 every year for the next 2. That can be in the contract but his actual contract term is 4 years and all money for coaching, private included, is in that contract.

[Really Clark?]

You are missing (at least) two things. First, the constitution does not say what you think it says. It just says there can't be a contract with the university to be an employee of the university that is longer than 4 years. It doesn't say that university employees can't do endorsement deals or moonlight or otherwise seek additional income outside of their employment contract.

Second, you are missing that there is (currently) no mechanism for the IHL interfere with Lane's contracts with private parties (they may not even have the ability to require it to be produced). The IHL may have the authority to issue regulations or rules that require university employees at a certain level to have anti-moonlighting provisions in their contract and/or require that all compensation be reported and that prohibits employees from accepting third party payments or promises of payment related to continued employment. But they don't have those rules in place now and aren't going to be able to void contracts retroactively. So if Lane has a contract with some third party that is not under the control of the university, and the third party agrees to compensate Kiffin a certain amount if he is not the coach of UM in any or all of the years 5 through 8 and it wasn't because he voluntarily quit or was fired for cause, then the IHL can't raelly do anything about it. IF things go south, the third party might could try to prevent enforcement claiming that it was a way for the university to get around the constitutional limit and shouldn't be enforced, but I'm not sure how viable that claim would be when it's a private party asking the court to relieve him/her/it of the consequences of its own scheme. The worst case scenario would be for them to enforce the payments but then claim that was money de facto donated/pledged to the university and the university officials that signed off on the deal are responsible for restitution to the university.

I know, I get that but we are not talking about moonlighting or endorsements outside of his coaching contract with the university. He kept stating NIL monies to pay his salary, which can't be done in any form and signing some outside contract that will pay his additional years. He can have that as far as moonlighting but you can't turn around and use that contract money he is receiving as some sort of endorsement to pay his coaching salary. And no matter where the money is coming from, private or otherwise, it has to accounted for to the IHL as far as his coaching salary is concerned. That is directly circumventing the law.

[WinningIsRelentless]

I know that but we are not talking about moonlighting or endorsements outside of his coaching contract with the university. He kept stating NIL monies to pay his salary, which can't be done in any form and signing some outside contract that will pay his additional years. He can have that as far as moonlighting but you can't turn around and use that contract money he is receiving as some sort of endorsement to pay his coaching salary. And no matter where the money is coming from, private or otherwise, it has to accounted for to the IHL as far as his coaching salary is concerned. That is directly circumventing the law.

Me saying NIL is because what people think of when they hear Grove Collective is NIL. Grove Collective came out and said we have 10 million a year right after Auburn said it. Well Grove Collective did get a big bounce because boosters committed to putting money in it to pay Kiffin thru to skirt the 4 year contract term. It?s that simple. Nothing the state can do about it since the Grove Collective can?t be a part of the university per ncaa rules.

[Really Clark?]

Me saying NIL is because what people think of when they hear Grove Collective is NIL. Grove Collective came out and said we have 10 million a year right after Auburn said it. Well Grove Collective did get a big bounce because boosters committed to putting money in it to pay Kiffin thru to skirt the 4 year contract term. It?s that simple. Nothing the state can do about it since the Grove Collective can?t be a part of the university per ncaa rules.

I get what are trying say now but that $10MIL for NIL that they announced was exactly for student athletes. And the boost for NIL has to stay with the student athlete. A separate fund outside of NIL to pay coach/es, fine. They can't let those monies mix and what ever they are paying toward Kiffin's salary out of that fund still has to be and was reported in that contract sent to the IHL. Other wise the school would only report what they are are spending but they can't and didn't. Private or not, his total compensation as an employee of the university has to be disclosed.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

As stated on here before, the offical sheet submitted for approval and obtained by the CL is for 4 years. No mention in writing about additional years. They know the state will not approve more than 4 years, running it through the private foundation makes no difference.

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/ole-miss/2023/01/10/lane-kiffin-contract-ole-miss-football-official-terms/69795792007/

Some people spend every dime they have on nice things to give the appearance like they are wealthy. The wealthy have all these things and have plenty left over. Guess which one OM is?

[Really Clark?]

Some people spend their every dime they have on nice things to give the appearance like they are wealthy. The wealthy have all these things and have plenty left over. Guess which one OM is?

That is so very true

[WinningIsRelentless]

I know, I get that but we are not talking about moonlighting or endorsements outside of his coaching contract with the university. He kept stating NIL monies to pay his salary, which can't be done in any form and signing some outside contract that will pay his additional years. He can have that as far as moonlighting but you can't turn around and use that contract money he is receiving as some sort of endorsement to pay his coaching salary. And no matter where the money is coming from, private or otherwise, it has to accounted for to the IHL as far as his coaching salary is concerned. That is directly circumventing the law.


I get what are trying say now but that $10MIL for NIL that they announced was exactly for student athletes. And the boost for NIL has to stay with the student athlete. A separate fund outside of NIL to pay coach/es, fine. They can't let those monies mix and what ever they are paying toward Kiffin's salary out of that fund still has to be and was reported in that contract sent to the IHL. Other wise the school would only report what they are are spending but they can't and didn't. Private or not, his total compensation as an employee of the university has to be disclosed.

Look man you just don?t get it. It can be mixed because all the collective does is basically brand endorsement deals. Those monies are earmarked for ?NIL? because ?NIL? is just a term used to define endorsement.

[Really Clark?]

Look man you just don?t get it. It can be mixed because all the collective does is basically brand endorsement deals. Those monies are earmarked for ?NIL? because ?NIL? is just a term used to define endorsement.

You cannot mix it because the NIL and how the collectives are allowed to operate cannot include coaches in those deals as they are for student athletes only. Now if they have some account and LLC that money can come in to pay coaches outside of NIL, fine. It's not advertised on the NIL site but I'm sure they can find a way do that. But they absolutely cannot use monies that are donated toward NIL deals for student athletes and use that to pay a coach salary, endorsement, etc.

Private foundations have to run money they are paying a coach through the university. They can't pay him directly, as far as his coaching salary is concerned.

ETA. I may have missed it but did it ever say that it was the Grove NIL was the private foundation that they were running this through? I only remember them say "private foundation"

[WinningIsRelentless]

You cannot mix it because the NIL and how the collectives are allowed to operate cannot include coaches in those deals as they are for student athletes only. Now if they have some account and LLC that money can come in to pay coaches outside of NIL, fine. It's not advertised on the NIL site but I'm sure they can find a way do that. But they absolutely cannot use monies that are donated toward NIL deals for student athletes and use that to pay a coach salary, endorsement, etc.

Private foundations have to run money they are paying a coach through the university. They can't pay him directly, as far as his coaching salary is concerned.

ETA. I may have missed it but did it ever say that it was the Grove NIL was the private foundation that they were running this through? I only remember them say "private foundation"

Show me one law/rule on the state or federal registry that deals with Collectives for college athletics. All the laws/rules that exist for NIL is the reporting requirements for tax purposes basically. I don?t know when you dreamed all of this up but it?s just that a dream.

I?m done with this conversation.

[Thick]

I was told that the NIL is non tax deductible, and the players who receive non-company sponsored monies are considered 1099. So if Company A hires Will to do some commercials, his contracted amount is taxed (W-2). If the 1099 part is true, players and their fams better get ready, bc the tax man cometh!

[Really Clark?]

Show me one law/rule on the state or federal registry that deals with Collectives for college athletics. All the laws/rules that exist for NIL is the reporting requirements for tax purposes basically. I don?t know when you dreamed all of this up but it?s just that a dream.

I?m done with this conversation.

The collectives were born from the Supreme Court ruling for Student Athletes. At no point in any ruling by the courts, state laws or the NCAA, does NIL monies extend beyond for student athlete. I didn't make anything up it's is literally everywhere under every ruling and every state law that's been enacted. It's for student athletes only. I cannot fathom how you think otherwise.

[WinningIsRelentless]

I was told that the NIL is non tax deductible, and the players who receive non-company sponsored monies are considered 1099. So if Company A hires Will to do some commercials, his contracted amount is taxed (W-2). If the 1099 part is true, players and their fams better get ready, bc the tax man cometh!

They are all 1099. W2 would make them employees and thus entitled to the standard benefit packages that are offered to other employees.

[Really Clark?]

I was told that the NIL is non tax deductible, and the players who receive non-company sponsored monies are considered 1099. So if Company A hires Will to do some commercials, his contracted amount is taxed (W-2). If the 1099 part is true, players and their fams better get ready, bc the tax man cometh!

A collective can be a 501c3 but ours is not and most are not, I believe.

[Johnson85]

I know, I get that but we are not talking about moonlighting or endorsements outside of his coaching contract with the university. He kept stating NIL monies to pay his salary, which can't be done in any form and signing some outside contract that will pay his additional years. He can have that as far as moonlighting but you can't turn around and use that contract money he is receiving as some sort of endorsement to pay his coaching salary. And no matter where the money is coming from, private or otherwise, it has to accounted for to the IHL as far as his coaching salary is concerned. That is directly circumventing the law.

Where is the rule or regulation that you think requires this? I'm a little skeptical it exists. When this issue has come up in the past, the question was asked related to foundations that are subject to a lot of (or complete?) control of the school. And there's a decent chance the school or IHL asked for the opinion they received. Not sure the IHL would have (1) gone out and put detailed rules and regulations out about 3rd parties not under the control of the school and what schools have to put in their contract to ensure those third parties don't supplement a coaches salary or provide any guarantee that the university is not allowed to provide and (2) done that in such a way that it can't easily be sidestepped by structuring the deal as some sort of endorsement deal or other type of contract that does not fall within the purview of the rule.

[Really Clark?]

Where is the rule or regulation that you think requires this? I'm a little skeptical it exists. When this issue has come up in the past, the question was asked related to foundations that are subject to a lot of (or complete?) control of the school. And there's a decent chance the school or IHL asked for the opinion they received. Not sure the IHL would have (1) gone out and put detailed rules and regulations out about 3rd parties not under the control of the school and what schools have to put in their contract to ensure those third parties don't supplement a coaches salary or provide any guarantee that the university is not allowed to provide and (2) done that in such a way that it can't easily be sidestepped by structuring the deal as some sort of endorsement deal or other type of contract that does not fall within the purview of the rule.

The IHL board has ruled on this previously with outside foundations and with this contract requiring all compensation and the term length to spelled out again, appears they have ruled the same in regards to third party. It's why what was sent to them this time included all compensation he's receiving not just what the school is paying and a term length of 4 years. When the contract is sent to the IHL board all funds are included in his compensation package. Let me ask you, if running everything through a private third party foundation would all allow the compensation and terms to be hidden from the IHL and FOI requests, why do we have it in print publicly and the IHL review it? Because the university can't and all monies for compensation have to be run through the university. A separate intently cant pay him direct or else all contracts for university employees could be hidden, president, AD, Deans, etc. Under the premise that a third party allows university employee contracts to be hidden from IHL, you could run them all through private 3rd party foundations They couldn't circumvent the law and the rules set by IHL. This is not a precedent that should be set. Maybe there is another area in state government where this is done and 3rd parties pay and sign contracts for employees to do their state job outside of state law, show me where that happened and what they are using to justify circumventing the law.

[Ezsoil]

So you?re saying that the foundation doesn?t have to report what they are paying in addition to his 4 year state contract? He?s getting paid regardless, and everyone knows the state only allows 4 year contracts. Am I missing something? Just asking

I'd think this would fall under the NIL changes ...a private foundation cam make a separate deal for some other personal services such as appearances or twitter commentary or anything else that can be thought of .....similar to how they do coaches shows to get around it...

[Really Clark?]

I'd think this would fall under the NIL changes ...a private foundation cam make a separate deal for some other personal services such as appearances or twitter commentary or anything else that can be thought of .....similar to how they do coaches shows to get around it...

No it doesn't fall under NIL. Coaches can't get NIL deals, that's for student athletes. Why would they? They have been able to get endorsements for forever.

That's been the contention of this thread. With this release from a FOI, it appears they still can't hide compensation or terms using a third party

[Ezsoil]

With NIL money? You have lost the plot dude. NIL money cannot be used to pay a coach. You have continuously brought up using NIL money. That is to pay the student athletes. Coaches can't get paid from that money and they can't put money into the NIL fund.

You keep missing the point ....the NIL ruling is FEDERAL case that supersedes any state law...and if you actually read the case law, you would understand that it is much broader that just college athletes ... it basically says ANYONE has a right to benefit from their name image and likeness....

Where is it stated that ALL NIL money is for college athletes that may be how the BI is sent up ...but any private organization can pay anyone for the use of their name image and likeness ....heck they could even pay Juice the dog if they like...

[Really Clark?]

You keep missing the point ....the NIL ruling is FEDERAL case that supersedes any state law...and if you actually read the case law, you would understand that it is much broader that just college athletes ... it basically says ANYONE has a right to benefit from their name image and likeness....

It does say but Coaches already benefit from it. They do not need NIL, they have never needed NIL!! They get endorsements from some of those same people regardless.

Coaches can't be employed by an NIL (same for all university employees), donate to an NIL (same with all university employees) and can't be a part of NIL deals. Now the last part has to do with helping broker a deal for a student athlete, granted. But donated monies are used for student athletes and until there is a rule change or Federal law, that's the way it will stay. These contracts are reported / reviewed by the university as well.

Even if coaches could get NIL deals, why would they need too? Name just one coach signed to a NIL deal. Heck just name one collective that have a coach listed under possible deals. Show me under the state law where anyone other than student athlete is mentioned under the regulations.

[Ezsoil]

It does say but Coaches already benefit from it. They do not need NIL, they have never needed NIL!! They get endorsements from some of those same people regardless.

Coaches can't be employed by an NIL (same for all university employees), donate to an NIL (same with all university employees) and can't be a part of NIL deals. Now the last part has to do with helping broker a deal for a student athlete, granted. But donated monies are used for student athletes and until there is a rule change or Federal law, that's the way it will stay. These contracts are reported / reviewed by the university as well.

Even if coaches could get NIL deals, why would they need too? Name just one coach signed to a NIL deal. Heck just name one collective that have a coach listed under possible deals. Show me under the state law where anyone other than student athlete is mentioned under the regulations.

You homey..you keep saying that NIL is restrictive to students only....what paragraph is that in the opinion?. Whatever restrictions are put in place by the collective and how they are filed with the IRS ...but there is no such thing as any "NIL LAW" ...now litigation may follow to see how different states handle it...But for now, there are no such rules in place . as the Supreme Court stated, ANYONE can receive compensation for their name image and likeness. this particular opinion defines what is allowed not what is restricted ....your concept of law is skewed ....

[Really Clark?]

You homey..you keep saying that NIL is restrictive to students only....what paragraph is that in the opinion?. Whatever restrictions are put in place by the collective and how they are filed with the IRS ...but there is no such thing as any "NIL LAW" ...now litigation may follow to see how different states handle it...But for now, there are no such rules in place . as the Supreme Court stated, ANYONE can receive compensation for their name image and likeness. this particular opinion defines what is allowed not what is restricted ....your concept of law is skewed ....

We have a law on the books in the State of Mississippi concerning NIL. That law is written specifically for student athletes. Please read the law, as I have, a show where that law governs anyone else but student athletes. It doesn't. Coaches do not and have never needed NIL, the could already make money off of endorsements. Student athletes could not. That is what the opinion is referring too, not that coaches can be a part of NIL deals. The only part of the NIL that address coaches (actually talks about school faculty) under the amended NIL law is that it relaxes the original law allowing them to help facilitate deals for the student athletes and allow them to help collectives fundraise for the NIL for the student athlete.

Read the Bulldog Initiative, in no section are NIL deals for coaches mentioned. It's for student athletes only. But it does state that they will adhere to NCAA compliance regulations and the state law govern NIL deals.