Horrible Situation Diring Bills and Bengals

[Really Clark?]

Just praying

[BeardoMSU]

Ambulance on field. CPR given. Players from both teams in tears.

[msstate7]

This is so sad

[parabrave]

What happened??

[BeardoMSU]

What happened??

Made a tackle, got up, took a step, then collapsed.

[SailingDawg]

What happened??

Bills defensive player collapsed after a tackle. They're administering CPR on the field.

Jamar Hamlin, I believe.

[RocketDawg]

He was in on what appeared to be a routine play. He stood up, and a second or two later just fell over backward. Wonder if they'll continue the game. Happened about 20 minutes ago. They administered CPR so presumably his heart and/or breathing stopped.

They're discussing now, presumably whether to continue the game.

[Really Clark?]

Bills defensive player collapsed after a tackle. They're administering CPR on the field.

Jamar Hamlin, I believe.

Yes it was Hamlin

[RocketDawg]

Game is temporarily suspended. I doubt they finish the game.

[Commercecomet24]

Praying! Hope it's not as serious as it looked but dang it looked bad.

[BeardoMSU]

Game is temporarily suspended. I doubt they finish the game.

Never seen this before.

[SailingDawg]

Yes it was Hamlin

Damar is his first name, apologies.

[parabrave]

Never seen this before.

In 1971 I was watching a Detroit lions game when after a play their receiver, Chuck Hughes, just fell over dead with a heart attack in the middle of the field. Later it was let out that he had a heart defect. In 1978 we were playing a team out of Natchez when one of their players broke his neck and basically died on on the field. They revived him and he lived another 30 years and did graduate from State. But I will never forget the ambulance crew giving him CPR

[RocketDawg]

There was a basketball player, I think from Florida, who fell over on the court a couple of years ago.

[BeardoMSU]

In 1971 I was watching a Detroit lions game when after a play their receiver, Chuck Hughes, just fell over dead with a heart attack in the middle of the field. Later it was let out that he had a heart defect. In 1978 we were playing a team out of Natchez when one of their players broke his neck and basically died on on the field. They revived him and he lived another 30 years and did graduate from State. But I will never forget the ambulance crew giving him CPR

Jeez

[parabrave]

Was he hit in the Chest?

[Really Clark?]

Was he hit in the Chest?

The hit was very very normal and he was just tackling the WR. It looked like an average tackle really.

[RocketDawg]

Was he hit in the Chest?

Looked to me like he was one of two who made the tackle. He probably took a blow to his chest but nothing out of the ordinary.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Was he hit in the Chest?

Yes, not particularly hard but yes

[Dawgface]

Very sad indeed. I'm sure they would all prefer to cancel the game but how do you do that? Hard to make it up at this point in the season. Tough situation all around.

[mudbugs]

The way he fell reminded me of watching Hank Gathers in a Loyola Marymount basketball game. Scary.

[Saltydog]

Horrible, just horrible. I was watching it and the tackle was very benign and then realized it was something else. Speechless. Football seems so inconsequential right now.

[MoreCowbell]

Whatever happened was not a result from contact, looks like his heart just gave out. Been happening a lot lately

[MoreCowbell]

Exactly what I was thinking

[Activated Alpha]

Probably cardiac related, but I also watched the hit. Very normal hit, but a center hit to the chest at the right time during depolarization of the heart can induce a lethal rhythm (vfib).

[RocketDawg]

The way he fell reminded me of watching Hank Gathers in a Loyola Marymount basketball game. Scary.

That may be the incident I referred to. The name sounds familiar.

[RocketDawg]

Very sad indeed. I'm sure they would all prefer to cancel the game but how do you do that? Hard to make it up at this point in the season. Tough situation all around.

I don't really see how they can continue the game. It's been close to an hour already, and nobody's in the mood to play until they know how he's doing.

[SailingDawg]

https://twitter.com/jennacottrell/status/1594381556843511812

[mo7888]

I don't really see how they can continue the game. It's been close to an hour already, and nobody's in the mood to play until they know how he's doing.

Yup....they should cancel it at this point...

[Quaoarsking]

They've both clenched playoff bids already, so it seems appropriate to call it a tie in the standings and move on.

[Commercecomet24]

I saw a kid back in junior high get his neck broke on the football field. Took them an hour and half to get him off the field. He lived and was even able to come back and play baseball and basketball in high school. He spent a year in an iron halo around his head to keep his neck stable but he came out ok. Sickening to see though and finishing that game was tough.

[Really Clark?]

They have to cancel it unless they get definite word that he is going to be ok. Nobody care about football with this in balance.

[BeardoMSU]

Bills' sideline crew packing up equipment.

[RocketDawg]

Who is the guy on with Booger and Lisa?

[RocketDawg]

OK, good. Game is not going to continue tonight.

[msstate7]

Bills' sideline crew packing up equipment.

I really hope that's not an indication of how the young man is doing

[sandjunky]

Who is the guy on with Booger and Lisa?

Adam Schefter

[DEDawg]

My guess is HOCM. My god how horrible.

[BeardoMSU]

Skip ****ing Bayless, everyone. Holy shit...

https://twitter.com/RealSkipBayless/status/1610101204687949827?t=a3pXYMk_9SeFkn61JPHyrg&s=19

[Coach34]

Saw a guy break his neck on a hit when I was a manager for my Dad's HS team when I was 5. It was awful. Ambulance coming out and everything. He ended up suing Riddell and my Dad had to testify in the trial.

[SailingDawg]

Intubated and critical according this tweet.

https://imgur.com/a/4hPDUce

[RocketDawg]

Skip ****ing Bayless, everyone. Holy shit...

https://twitter.com/RealSkipBayless/status/1610101204687949827?t=a3pXYMk_9SeFkn61JPHyrg&s=19

Yeah, that's a little harsh.

[BeardoMSU]

Yeah, that's a little harsh.

This is the same guy that said Dak was somehow less of a leader/man because he spoke out about his depression and mental health, after a major injury and his brother committing suicide.

**** him.

[Commercecomet24]

This is the same guy that said Dak was somehow less of a leader/man because he spoke out about his depression and mental health, after a major injury and his brother committing suicide.

**** him.

Skips an idiot.

[BeardoMSU]

Skips an idiot.

And a ghoul.

[Commercecomet24]

And a ghoul.

No doubt about it.

[parabrave]

I seen catchers take fastballs to the chest and get up then just collapse. When they recovered they said they got hit then everything went black. The impact of the ball stopped the heart.

[MrCoachKlein]

Never seen this before.

It's happened 100s of times since mid 2021

[BeardoMSU]

It's happened 100s of times since mid 2021

Huh? Games being suspended?

[Tater]

I love football. Football is my favorite sport.


This is reason #352837744 why I won't ever let my kid play it. Not as it's currently constructed.

[Tater]

Huh? Games being suspended?

Don't engage. He's making this about the vaccine

[MrCoachKlein]

Huh? Games being suspended?

Athletes that 'died suddenly' or 'collapsed from heart condition'. Rampant in soccer. Search it on a non censored video hosting site. It'll make you sick

[parabrave]

Athletes that 'died suddenly' or 'collapsed from heart condition'. Rampant in soccer. Search it on a non censored video hosting site. It'll make you sick

Don't Hijack the thread/ Start your own if you want to talk about the Vaccine. Thank you for your cooperation before Scoob locks this.

[Coach34]

Don't Hijack the thread/ Start your own if you want to talk about the Vaccine. Thank you for your cooperation before Scoob locks this.

Normally I would agree but the vaccine has had young, healthy guys dropping dead. Soccer has had double digit guys die in the last 3 years after having a handfull in the previous 50 years

[parabrave]

Normally I would agree but the vaccine has had young, healthy guys dropping dead. Soccer has had double digit guys die in the last 3 years after having a handfull in the previous 50 years

Check your PM/

[Activated Alpha]

Figured this would derail into a vaccine cluster****. Y?all do know that high active sports like football and soccer puts a lot of oxygen demand on the heart. It happens

[DEDawg]

I love football. Football is my favorite sport.


This is reason #352837744 why I won't ever let my kid play it. Not as it's currently constructed.

I mean this is 1 in a million. Youre more likely to die driving to work than on a football field.

[Tater]

I mean this is 1 in a million. Youre more likely to die driving to work than on a football field.

There's too much CTE. Even from the small repetitive hits. It's just not worth it.

[Quaoarsking]

Skip ****ing Bayless, everyone. Holy shit...

https://twitter.com/RealSkipBayless/status/1610101204687949827?t=a3pXYMk_9SeFkn61JPHyrg&s=19

I could understand his point (though I'd probably still disagree) if these teams were still fighting for a playoff spot. But they're not. They've both already clinched. And the NFL has ties, so this can count as one.

[Apoplectic]

Figured this would derail into a vaccine cluster****. Y?all do know that high active sports like football and soccer puts a lot of oxygen demand on the heart. It happens

Why is this part of the discussion not allowed?

[parabrave]

Athletes that 'died suddenly' or 'collapsed from heart condition'. Rampant in soccer. Search it on a non censored video hosting site. It'll make you sick

High usage of certain powdery drugs taken through you nose does this also.

[TUSK]

Normally I would agree but the vaccine has had young, healthy guys dropping dead. Soccer has had double digit guys die in the last 3 years after having a handfull in the previous 50 years

I'm in!

https://media.tenor.com/A0TIKT1W0JAAAAAM/keep-going.gif

[Apoplectic]

https://goodsciencing.com/covid/athletes-suffer-cardiac-arrest-die-after-covid-shot/

[Tater]

https://twitter.com/dubiouspod/status/1610147021431750657?s=46&t=_VaVTXNMVW_gT9PRHoWhNQ

There. Stop being idiotic brain dead vax idiots. There's actual proven medical science explaining to you what happened.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commotio_cordis

[MoreCowbell]

Normally I would agree but the vaccine has had young, healthy guys dropping dead. Soccer has had double digit guys die in the last 3 years after having a handfull in the previous 50 years

Thank you, it pisses me off people are not even willing to have this discussion

[MoreCowbell]

Why is this part of the discussion not allowed?

Exactly

[Quaoarsking]

Thank you, it pisses me off people are not even willing to have this discussion

We're all willing to have "the discussion." It's just that literally every death announcement is blamed on the vaccine. Not exaggerating. Every single Tweet about someone who has died, regardless of their age, conditions, cause of death, or even vaccination status is followed up by replies blaming the vaccine. Leach, Sam Westmoreland, Queen Elizabeth, everyone. I just went to Twitter and saw a NYT times from a singer named Gangsta Boo who died today and guess what clowns are blaming it on despite no information. It's just stupid. Apparently nobody who died in the last 2 years would have died without that vaccine (including people who didn't get it in the first place).

I remember in particular one exchange here (or maybe SPS) where two people said they had elderly relatives die and were blaming it on the COVID vaccine. One died the next day, and the other died months later. Despite the fact that their stories were totally different, they just felt vindicated by someone else having the "same experience" and it's like, really? The same experience?

Ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? Maybe the wolf will show up one day, but we've already started tuning the morons out.

[Quaoarsking]

Soccer has had double digit guys die in the last 3 years after having a handfull in the previous 50 years

You really just sheepishly believe something you read on the Internet without demanding the see the actual data behind it?

[Tater]

.

[TUSK]

This thread is glorious....

[dawgday166]

Well ... I dunno if Damar's case is vax related but I'll say this.

I've known one person who has died from Covid (56 years old).

My entire life (59 years) I've known 3 people I can think of who have died of heart attacks. I think I've known of one in their 70's who had a stroke.

Since mid-2021 I've personally known 3 people in their 50's who have died of heart attacks, one a woman (women don't generally die of heart attacks). One drove himself to the hospital and made it, but they couldn't keep him alive (that's pretty rare). I've also known 2 guys in their 50's who have had massive strokes and are completely debilitated now. I have a friend who knows a 60 year old woman who died of a heart attack. The 60 year old has a 40 year old daughter who also had a heart attack, but survived.

I also have a friend that didn't want to get the vax but was made to by the hospital where she worked. She took the D-Dimer test for blood clot susceptibility prior to taking the vax, then again after 2 doses of Moderna. Her likelihood for blood clots increased after the 2 doses.

I've seen a lot of old, fat coaches (as y'all have too). How many die of heart attacks while they're still coaching. I can't think of one. Bear did (he smoked) but after he retired.

As an aside, my brother (61) was healthy as a horse. After 2 doses of Moderna in April '21, in July '21 he got tongue cancer with 95% survival rate. He had quit smoking and drinking many years before and was very healthy before then. We buried him this past July.

I also know a couple or so folks that seem to be sick with flu like symptoms quite often since they have been vaxxed/boosted/etc. (sorta like Leach seemed this past year). One just got run down really bad, was complaining on FB for 2 or 3 weeks. Thought she had the flu (had tested negative for Covid). Went to visit over holidays and several people she was around got sick and then tested positive for Covid.

Oh .. and now we have a new thing called Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, sorta like SIDS I guess. Which means they don't know HITF someone died. Happening with younger adults a decent amount too.

So ... I dunno if the vax is causing deaths or not but ... some things just ain't adding up and 2+2 ain't equaling 4 about what the "science" and our Big Pharma Lords are telling us about the vax.

I also know that I didn't take it and I never will, regardless of mandates or laws.

ETA: I'm not gonna really debate with folks about this, just telling folks what I've noticed and what some of my observations have been. Folks are currently free to make their own choices for the most part, except when employers mandate it I guess.

[chef dixon]

Anecdotes are not research. Hope the young man can make it

[chef dixon]

https://twitter.com/dubiouspod/status/1610147021431750657?s=46&t=_VaVTXNMVW_gT9PRHoWhNQ

There. Stop being idiotic brain dead vax idiots. There's actual proven medical science explaining to you what happened.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commotio_cordis

This seems plausible given the timing of his collapse. I don't think this is something like HOCM. I'm pretty sure all NFL players are screened for that and many other things.

[bulldawg28]

High usage of certain powdery drugs taken through you nose does this also.

If you're suggesting this young man was snorting cocaine and this happened you're different. The NFL test more second to track and field.

[Quaoarsking]

My entire life (59 years) I've known 3 people I can think of who have died of heart attacks. I think I've known of one in their 70's who had a stroke.

There are probably more that you're forgetting because you weren't looking for them and committing them to memory like you are now.

Also, as we age are more likely to have peers start dying than when we were younger, so even if you do remember everything perfectly it may just be that.


Oh .. and now we have a new thing called Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, sorta like SIDS I guess. Which means they don't know HITF someone died. Happening with younger adults a decent amount too.
SADS actually stands for "sudden arrythmtic death syndrome" and is not new at all. Whoever told you otherwise scammed you. The internet is full of bad actors trying to scare people with fake news.

[Apoplectic]

This seems plausible given the timing of his collapse. I don't think this is something like HOCM. I'm pretty sure all NFL players are screened for that and many other things.

Anyone remember this CC ever happening before in pro or college where 13 year boys with under-developed chest cavalries and muscles don?t play?

[Lord McBuckethead]

Why is this part of the discussion not allowed?


Normally I would agree but the vaccine has had young, healthy guys dropping dead. Soccer has had double digit guys die in the last 3 years after having a handfull in the previous 50 years

Because it has nothing to do with this guy's condition. Billions upon billions of doses given, hundreds of thousands of top of the world athletes..... nothing. You could just as easily say that Covid itself is causing issues due to the way it attacks lung and heart tissue.

Let's leave the science to the scientist. Shit I don't even trust C34 for coffee recommendations. Why the hell would anyone trust him with literally anything else?

[BoomBoom]

Thank you, it pisses me off people are not even willing to have this discussion

Well, there's so many different variables that would have to be accounted for (Vax or not, how many, covid infection or not, how severe, pre-existing conditions, drug use, family history, etc) that this could only ever be assessed by a giant govt study.....that you wouldn't trust anyway. So what's the point of the discussion?

[Liverpooldawg]

Well ... I dunno if Damar's case is vax related but I'll say this.

I've known one person who has died from Covid (56 years old).

My entire life (59 years) I've known 3 people I can think of who have died of heart attacks. I think I've known of one in their 70's who had a stroke.

Since mid-2021 I've personally known 3 people in their 50's who have died of heart attacks, one a woman (women don't generally die of heart attacks). One drove himself to the hospital and made it, but they couldn't keep him alive (that's pretty rare). I've also known 2 guys in their 50's who have had massive strokes and are completely debilitated now. I have a friend who knows a 60 year old woman who died of a heart attack. The 60 year old has a 40 year old daughter who also had a heart attack, but survived.

I also have a friend that didn't want to get the vax but was made to by the hospital where she worked. She took the D-Dimer test for blood clot susceptibility prior to taking the vax, then again after 2 doses of Moderna. Her likelihood for blood clots increased after the 2 doses.

I've seen a lot of old, fat coaches (as y'all have too). How many die of heart attacks while they're still coaching. I can't think of one. Bear did (he smoked) but after he retired.

As an aside, my brother (61) was healthy as a horse. After 2 doses of Moderna in April '21, in July '21 he got tongue cancer with 95% survival rate. He had quit smoking and drinking many years before and was very healthy before then. We buried him this past July.

I also know a couple or so folks that seem to be sick with flu like symptoms quite often since they have been vaxxed/boosted/etc. (sorta like Leach seemed this past year). One just got run down really bad, was complaining on FB for 2 or 3 weeks. Thought she had the flu (had tested negative for Covid). Went to visit over holidays and several people she was around got sick and then tested positive for Covid.

Oh .. and now we have a new thing called Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, sorta like SIDS I guess. Which means they don't know HITF someone died. Happening with younger adults a decent amount too.

So ... I dunno if the vax is causing deaths or not but ... some things just ain't adding up and 2+2 ain't equaling 4 about what the "science" and our Big Pharma Lords are telling us about the vax.

I also know that I didn't take it and I never will, regardless of mandates or laws.

ETA: I'm not gonna really debate with folks about this, just telling folks what I've noticed and what some of my observations have been. Folks are currently free to make their own choices for the most part, except when employers mandate it I guess.

You led a very fortunate life for a long time. I don't really believe you knew that few people who died from the things you mentioned prior to COVID.

[SailingDawg]

https://goodsciencing.com/covid/athletes-suffer-cardiac-arrest-die-after-covid-shot/

🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪

[sleepy dawg]

🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪

Yes... the anonymously owned "science" website that purposely distorts facts and has been proven to do so even within this very subject?

[Really Clark?]

Update:

"Damar Hamlin suffered a cardiac arrest following a hit in the Buffalo Bills' game versus the Cincinnati Bengals. His heartbeat was restored on the field and he was transferred to the University of Cincinnati Medical Center for further testing and treatment. He is currently sedated and listed in critical condition."

Continue prayers to his family, teammates, coaches and Bills organization.

This is all that's important at this time.

[Quaoarsking]

Over 80% of American adults have had the COVID vaccine. So anytime someone dies and people are like "ooh, he was vaxxed!" well yeah, he probably was.

I'm a data/numbers guy. Use data to convince me and I'll beat the anti-vaxx drum as loud as anybody. But it's going to take more evidence than blaming every heart attack, stroke, overdose, dehydration, cancer, and suicide death on the vaccine. By what mechanism would the shot cause all of those deaths? Why would the shot be blamed for people who got it the week they died, but also 2 years before they died? And why would literally millions of medical professionals who don't benefit financially be in on this conspiracy?

[Quaoarsking]

Yes... the anonymously owned "science" website that purposely distorts facts and has been proven to do so even within this very subject?

The fact that people running that blog site explicitly refuse to say who they are and what their credentials are is a huge red flag to say the least. Basically admitting they're just random people who don't know what they're talking about.

[Liverpooldawg]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/what-happened-to-critically-injured-nfl-player-damar-hamlin-a-cardiologist-explains/ar-AA15UUtC

[Jacknut]

Nobody knows what exactly happened right now. Could it have been commotio cordis? Sure. Could he have had a hidden heart defect? Sure. Could there have complications from the vaccine? Sure.

[Quaoarsking]

Nobody knows what exactly happened right now. Could it have been commotio cordis? Sure. Could he have had a hidden heart defect? Sure. Could there have complications from the vaccine? Sure.

It "could" have been anything but I prefer to focus on theories with actual evidence and not ones that were just made up on social media. Maybe I'm just a strange guy.

[Jacknut]

It "could" have been anything but I prefer to focus on theories with actual evidence and not ones that were just made up on social media. Maybe I'm just a strange guy.

Complications from the COVID-19 vaccine were not "made up on social media". Why did the FDA want to dribble out 500 pages/month on the data (would have taken 75 years) they used to license the vaccine? https://news.bloomberglaw.com/health-law-and-business/why-a-judge-ordered-fda-to-release-covid-19-vaccine-data-pronto :confused:

[BiscuitEater]

Never seen this before.

'NEVER' happened before ... in history of NFL! SINCE 1920!

[BiscuitEater]

It "could" have been anything but I prefer to focus on theories with actual evidence and not ones that were just made up on social media. Maybe I'm just a strange guy.

'NEVER' happened before ... in history of NFL! SINCE 1920!

[Quaoarsking]

Complications from the COVID-19 vaccine were not "made up on social media". Why did the FDA want to dribble out 500 pages/month on the data (would have taken 75 years) they used to license the vaccine? https://news.bloomberglaw.com/health-law-and-business/why-a-judge-ordered-fda-to-release-covid-19-vaccine-data-pronto :confused:

Nothing in this link provides any evidence that Hamlin's medical issue has anything with a vaccine?

[BiscuitEater]

“If you get hit in the chest,” University of Maryland Medical System cardiologist Dr. Scott Jerome said, “if it happens between heartbeats in a very small window, it can put the heart in ventricular fibrillation.

“The heart stops beating,” said Jerome, an assistant professor of medicine.

I'm sorry, BUT in 97 years of NFL, thousands of players have been hit in the chest! IT'S NEVER happened before!

[Quaoarsking]

Actually there a quite a few heart related issues on this list. Maybe they are all time travelers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_football_players_who_died_during_ their_careers

[Really Clark?]

'NEVER' happened before ... in history of NFL! SINCE 1920!

Yes it has. Detroit Lions player died on the field from a heart attack. It was discovered he had a heart condition with an artery that was 75% clogged. They believe a hit he received 3 plays before caused him to throw the clot and the heart attack.

[Tater]

“If you get hit in the chest,” University of Maryland Medical System cardiologist Dr. Scott Jerome said, “if it happens between heartbeats in a very small window, it can put the heart in ventricular fibrillation.

“The heart stops beating,” said Jerome, an assistant professor of medicine.

I'm sorry, BUT in 97 years of NFL, thousands of players have been hit in the chest! IT'S NEVER happened before!

Do you understand how small of a time window and how small of a specific target it has to be and force needs to be applied in just the right way? The hit has to fast as well to fit in the time window.

There's a reason it's more common in Hockey / Baseball. Small object at high velocity is more capable of meeting specific requirement than large object at medium to low velocity. It's very improbable but not impossible.

[Jacknut]

Nothing in this link provides any evidence that Hamlin's medical issue has anything with a vaccine?

I already said we don't know what happened, but you can't write off it wasn't vaccine complications either.

[Commercecomet24]

Do you understand how small of a time window and how small of a specific target it has to be and force needs to be applied in just the right way? The hit has to fast as well to fit in the time window.

There's a reason it's more common in Hockey / Baseball. Small object at high velocity is more capable of meeting specific requirement than large object at medium to low velocity. It's very improbable but not impossible.

It's unfortunate but this actual thing, while not common, does happen in youth baseball(and lacrosse). I've been in tournaments where this has happened. It's why evoshield and several other companies started making chest guards for youth pitchers to wear about 20 years ago. And ask anyone that's ever caught anyone with high velo and took a foul ball to the chest. It absolutely can shock the heart.

[Quaoarsking]

I already said we don't know what happened, but you can't write off it wasn't vaccine complications either.

In the same sense that you "can't write off" alien viruses, Russian assassins, rare undiscovered diseases, etc. It's theoretically possible, but no evidence that actually suggests it, while there is evidence from cardiologists that it was the hit that caused a heart issue.

[Tater]

I already said we don't know what happened, but you can't write off it wasn't vaccine complications either.

You can't write off that it wasn't Aliens zapping him
with an invisible ray gun either.

Just because you technically can't rule something out doesn't mean it's worthy of investigation. You just sound like a loon trying to prove some grand conspiracy that ain't true.

[Tater]

It's unfortunate but this actual thing, while not common, does happen in youth baseball(and lacrosse). I've been in tournaments where this has happened. It's why evoshield and several other companies started making chest guards for youth pitchers to wear about 20 years ago. And ask anyone that's ever caught anyone with high velo and took a foul ball to the chest. It absolutely can shock the heart.

Yep. It's awful and even those shields aren't 100%. I always say catchers are crazy. Don't know how they do it night in and night out.

[Commercecomet24]

Yep. It's awful and even those shields aren't 100%. I always say catchers are crazy. Don't know how they do it night in and night out.

Right, they're definitely not 100%. My youngest son caught through youth baseball, 4 years of high school and 2 juco and he's still trying to recover from a shoulder injury he sustained last year at Gulf Coast. He got dinged up a lot. Praying that the Damar Hamlin has a complete recovery. Can't imagine what his family is going through right now. You can expect some injuries but nobody really thinks about this kind of thing happening.

[BoomBoom]

Over 80% of American adults have had the COVID vaccine. So anytime someone dies and people are like "ooh, he was vaxxed!" well yeah, he probably was.

I'm a data/numbers guy. Use data to convince me and I'll beat the anti-vaxx drum as loud as anybody. But it's going to take more evidence than blaming every heart attack, stroke, overdose, dehydration, cancer, and suicide death on the vaccine. By what mechanism would the shot cause all of those deaths? Why would the shot be blamed for people who got it the week they died, but also 2 years before they died? And why would literally millions of medical professionals who don't benefit financially be in on this conspiracy?

There's also the issue of correlation. Maybe 1 million people would have died of severe covid had they not vaxxed. These are the people prone to covid-induced clotting and other complications. How many of them had a less severe initial infection of covid due to the vaccine, but their predisposition to covid complications still caused a heart issue? Real world statistics are not random, they are driven by underlying fundamentals. And there are a lot of people prone to covid complications who got a covid vaccine. An effect among this subset is not indicative of an effect among the rest of us.

In other words, the numbers could be real, but the cause isn't the vaccine, it's covid.

That having been said, I am of the opinion that there was a time when getting the vaccine was warranted, but that time has passed if you've never gotten it. Boosters for those who did vaccinate? Jury is still out. Imo we need better testing of antibody levels to drive boosters, not attempts at one-size-fits-all calender-driven schedules for boosters. If your antibodies have dropped over time, and there's a wave coming, get a booster. Otherwise, don't. Continual boosters is not a solution.

[Matt3467]

Actually there a quite a few heart related issues on this list. Maybe they are all time travelers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_football_players_who_died_during_ their_careers

I think the point was it happening in a game vs dying while on a roster. Checking the list looks like there was one guy that did die during a game in 1971 from cardiac arrest seemingly without any contact.

[Liverpooldawg]

I think the point was it happening in a game vs dying while on a roster. Checking the list looks like there was one guy that did die during a game in 1971 from cardiac arrest seemingly without any contact.

The contact was probably three plays before on that one.

[MrCoachKlein]

https://twitter.com/dubiouspod/status/1610147021431750657?s=46&t=_VaVTXNMVW_gT9PRHoWhNQ

There. Stop being idiotic brain dead vax idiots. There's actual proven medical science explaining to you what happened.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commotio_cordis

The Doc who invented the MRNA technology disagrees. He broke down why he thinks Commotio cordis is not a plausible explanation on:
https://gettr.com/streaming/p23r4ho9720

https://twitter.com/RWMaloneMD/status/1610318868148256772?cxt=HHwWiICw8dGegNksAAAA

Dr Peter McCullough:
This recent paper from Dr. Polykretis and myself gets the sharp rise in athlete deaths into PUBMED. Since vaccination, "1598 athletes suffered cardiac arrest, 1101 of which with deadly outcome. Over a prior 38-years (1966-2004), 1101 athletes < age of 35 died (~29/yr).

That's 550.5 per year vs 29.

https://twitter.com/P_McCulloughMD/status/1610257536162332672

Link to his study:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/sji.13242

[Jacknut]

Set up those straw men and knock them down all you want. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788346

[Quaoarsking]

I can't believe I still have to remind people of this, but just because someone claims to have "invented MRNA vaccines" doesn't mean he really did. And in this case, he did not.

[Tater]

The Doc who invented the MRNA technology disagrees. He broke down why he thinks Commotio cordis is not a plausible explanation on:
https://gettr.com/streaming/p23r4ho9720

https://twitter.com/RWMaloneMD/status/1610318868148256772?cxt=HHwWiICw8dGegNksAAAA

Dr Peter McCullough:
This recent paper from Dr. Polykretis and myself gets the sharp rise in athlete deaths into PUBMED. Since vaccination, "1598 athletes suffered cardiac arrest, 1101 of which with deadly outcome. Over a prior 38-years (1966-2004), 1101 athletes < age of 35 died (~29/yr).

That's 550.5 per year vs 29.

https://twitter.com/P_McCulloughMD/status/1610257536162332672

Link to his study:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/sji.13242

You've got one guy who is quoting Toilet Paper USA's Charlie Kirk as your source against a litany of doctors.

You've got another quoting the "good sciencing" data that everyone has already told you is a load of horseshit.

Look man, if you go searching hard and long enough, you'll find someone willing to peddle what bs narrative you want to push. Neither one of these guys are heart doctors and both are trying to peddle anti-vax narratives.

Literally every credible heart doctor you talk to will tell you exactly what it is. But hey, you probably think they're indoctrinated from their liberal education or something too.



This is why no one wants to argue with y'all anymore. Y'all refuse to even critique your own sources. You search for someone saying what you want the truth to be and run with it.

And the truth you want, is for there to be some big conspiracy cabal controlling the world. You want this because how else does it explain you working hard all your life and still not amounting to jack shit. It's gotta be some evil force. ****ing narcissistic idiots.

[Quaoarsking]

Literally every credible heart doctor you talk to will tell you exactly what it is. But hey, you probably think they're indoctrinated from their liberal education or something too.

Thats the kicker here. What incentive do literally millions of medical professionals have to be in a global vaccine conspiracy? None.

[Activated Alpha]

Probably cardiac related, but I also watched the hit. Very normal hit, but a center hit to the chest at the right time during depolarization of the heart can induce a lethal rhythm (vfib).

Before this thread gets locked unfortunately, but would like to leave this here. Either the hit sent him into a Letha rhythm or he had an MI

[BoomBoom]

Thats the kicker here. What incentive do literally millions of medical professionals have to be in a global vaccine conspiracy? None.

Well, to be fair, group think is a thing, and there's the incentive to minimize discussion of complications so as to not deter vaccination. Besides, doctors are notorious for being bad at statistics (especially relative to their education level).

[Commercecomet24]

Before this thread gets locked unfortunately, but would like to leave this here. Either the hit sent him into a Letha rhythm or he had an MI

This. Amazing how a thread about an unfortunate incident and concern for the young man turned into a vaccine war.

[Quaoarsking]

Well, to be fair, group think is a thing, and there's the incentive to minimize discussion of complications so as to not deter vaccination. Besides, doctors are notorious for being bad at statistics (especially relative to their education level).

All of them though? If the COVID vaccine is actually harmful, it is without question the greatest scandal and largest conspiracy in human history. Millions of people are in on it and not one of them slipped up and revealed it? Not one decided to blow the whistle?

[Turfdawg67]

Ironic... during the pandemic, these same people claimed no one actually died from Covid, but now, wholeheartedly believe the vaxx is killing people left and right. Politics can make normally sane people, ignorant as hell.

[Matt3467]

Well, to be fair, group think is a thing, and there's the incentive to minimize discussion of complications so as to not deter vaccination. Besides, doctors are notorious for being bad at statistics (especially relative to their education level).

"the nail that sticks out gets hammered."

[Turfdawg67]

This. Amazing how a thread about an unfortunate incident and concern for the young man turned into a vaccine war.

You're right CC, I apologize for taking the bait. Continued prayers for Damar Hamlin.

[BoomBoom]

All of them though? If the COVID vaccine is actually harmful, it is without question the greatest scandal and largest conspiracy in human history. Millions of people are in on it and not one of them slipped up and revealed it? Not one decided to blow the whistle?

Harmful relative to what? What if not vaccinating carries a 1% risk, but vaccinating carries a 0.001% risk? It would entirely be in keeping with past practice for docs to ignore the latter. And like I said in other posts, there's likely a high degree of correlation between those harmed by/concurrent with the vaccine and those that would have been harmed worse by covid without the vaccine.

It's not like vaccine complications are new. There's a whole govt agency set up to compensate those affected by it.

I mean, we see how these deniers are. You don't think docs want to avoid feeding their idiocy?

But no, there's no way a million docs are in on some grand secret. But that's not the same as just ignoring an argument over whether the vaccine completely eliminates your risk (no complications) or just vastly reduces it (some complications, but orders of magnitude less risk than the full blown disease), especially when we don't really have the data to know which it is. It's entirely expected that docs would just bow out of that discussion, they do it in dozens maybe hundreds of other ways.

I mean, we are talking about the same profession that said germs weren't real until all the old docs died and were replaced by young docs that accepted the evidence. Among other examples, like covid being airborne. Group think is strong among doctors.

[Quaoarsking]

"the nail that sticks out gets hammered."

Not on this issue. Anti-vaxx crusaders are raking in tons of money.

[Percho]

Harmful relative to what? What if not vaccinating carries a 1% risk, but vaccinating carries a 0.001% risk? It would entirely be in keeping with past practice for docs to ignore the latter. And like I said in other posts, there's likely a high degree of correlation between those harmed by/concurrent with the vaccine and those that would have been harmed worse by covid without the vaccine.

It's not like vaccine complications are new. There's a whole govt agency set up to compensate those affected by it.

I mean, we see how these deniers are. You don't think docs want to avoid feeding their idiocy?

But no, there's no way a million docs are in on some grand secret. But that's not the same as just ignoring an argument over whether the vaccine completely eliminates your risk (no complications) or just vastly reduces it (some complications, but orders of magnitude less risk than the full blown disease), especially when we don't really have the data to know which it is. It's entirely expected that docs would just bow out of that discussion, they do it in dozens maybe hundreds of other ways.

I mean, we are talking about the same profession that said germs weren't real until all the old docs died and were replaced by young docs that accepted the evidence. Among other examples, like covid being airborne. Group think is strong among doctors.

Also, who is their license to practice as a Dr tied to? There are a lot of controlling factors to what we say and do.

[TUSK]

Also, who is their license to practice as a Dr tied to? There are a lot of controlling factors to what we say and do.

This.

[BoomBoom]

Also, who is their license to practice as a Dr tied to? There are a lot of controlling factors to what we say and do.

No. Sure, a handful of docs that have gone all in on conspiracies have been sanctioned. But any doc can "just ask questions" and have nothing to worry about as far as their license is concerned. Now, specific jobs? Sure, that's always a worry, docs included. If you aren't careful, you'll tie your image in with the crazies and idiots, and most employers don't like that. The expect the docs they employ to be respected, and that's tough when they're ranting about Jade Helm 15 or Comet Pizza.

[ScoobaDawg]

I'm seriously tempted to ban everyone in this thread not providing meaningful updates or comments.
A player had a horrible thing happen and is fighting for his life and people want to just push their agendas.

Stick your head back in your hole of conspiracies and f*ck off....