Next Head FB coach

[Santiago]

Dana Holgerson

Houston fans will pay you to take him.

[662dawg]

Houston fans will pay you to take him.

Why that?

[Nutriaitch]

Why that?

he's got Maggie's Drawers

[Coursesuper]

What matters here is that there are a lot of good things with the program right now and all due diligence must be done to make the right hire. The stakes are to high in the SEC to have another Morehead hire. This has to be a perfect fit.

[BankerDog]

Go get Dykes, Holgerson, or Sonny Crumble. I also wouldn?t be mad at Kane Wommack at South AL, Graham Harrell, or Joey Halzle. Halzle is intriguing. Played at OK and has been with Heupel for 14 years.

[BankerDog]

HC- Arnett
OC/QB- Littrell or Kittley
DC/LB- Matt Brock
RB- Washington
OWR- Chad Bumphis (Spurrier if Bump says no)
IWR/TE- Hollingshead
OL- Miller
DL- Phelps
CB- McBath
S- Hughes
ST- Mele

This would be my ideal staff

I?d move Drew to QB coach and bring in Bump. Drew has been the QB coach unofficially 2 of last three years and was heavily involved in securing the commitment of Parson and our other QBs (Locke and Robertson).

[Cooterpoot]

Dykes is never coming here. You guys can completely forget that. He's about to run that conference after TX and OU leave.
Holgerson? WTF are you thinking? He's sucked. Womack? Again? WTF you smokin? Holy shit at this thread.
And Kittley isn't coming here either. He's fast tracking to a HC job. He's not going to sit behind Arnett.

[662dawg]

Does anyone know what style of offense Jeff Traylor at UTSA runs?

He's 30-9 as a head coach including 23-4 the past two seasons.

Back to back CUSA coach of the year. '21 & '22

I saw that his team passed for 4,000 yards this year but also had right around 2,000 rushing yards so I'm assuming it isn't exactly the air raid, but maybe close enough?

[gtowndawg]

Dykes is never coming here. You guys can completely forget that. He's about to run that conference after TX and OU leave.
Holgerson? WTF are you thinking? He's sucked. Womack? Again? WTF you smokin? Holy shit at this thread.
And Kittley isn't coming here either. He's fast tracking to a HC job. He's not going to sit behind Arnett.

Yeah, some of the suggestions are head scratchers to say the least.

[BankerDog]

Dykes is never coming here. You guys can completely forget that. He's about to run that conference after TX and OU leave.
Holgerson? WTF are you thinking? He's sucked. Womack? Again? WTF you smokin? Holy shit at this thread.
And Kittley isn't coming here either. He's fast tracking to a HC job. He's not going to sit behind Arnett.

Wommack is 15-9 at South. Done a pretty good job building that program. Dana is a 58% career winner. But You are always the guy wanting to argue. Tell me-if not Arnett, who would you bring in? Billy Napier?

[Johnson85]

Dykes is never coming here. You guys can completely forget that. He's about to run that conference after TX and OU leave.
Holgerson? WTF are you thinking? He's sucked. Womack? Again? WTF you smokin? Holy shit at this thread.
And Kittley isn't coming here either. He's fast tracking to a HC job. He's not going to sit behind Arnett.

Yup. We have so many fans that consistently underrate MSU as a job, and then you see stuff like this and I guess it averages out. I don't think TCU is a slam dunk if you are talking about somebody not at either place looking at both as options, but virtually nobody would leave TCU when they are already rolling and about to have a relatively easy path to the playoffs consistently when OU and Texas leave.

[msstate7]

Holgerson is 87-61 (.588), 56-44 (.560) in conference play

I would say he's pretty good. Maybe not great, but solid. He certainly doesn't suck

ETA... for reference, everyone's favorite, dykes' record before going to tcu...

72-63 (.533), 42-48 (.467) conf

[Op4isabitch]

Why are we aiming low? We just lost CML one of the best Coaches in history. We can do very well, we seem to always sell ourselves short.
We need to aim high.

[msstate7]

Gary Patterson is only 62. Perhaps a year off has recharged the battery.

[CJDAWG85]

Isn’t he at Texas?

[Really Clark?]

I believe in getting the best fit and best coach for your program at the time. Aim high but don't waste time either on a coach who is preparing for the playoffs, in his first year, in his home state, making great money and in an easier conference. There's aiming high and there is foolish thinking. He's not even entertaining taking that call right now. As he should be.

[msstate7]

Isn’t he at Texas?
As an assistant

[TrapGame]

Why are we aiming low? We just lost CML one of the best Coaches in history. We can do very well, we seem to always sell ourselves short.
We need to aim high.

Aim high? Who? Urban Meyer? Klieman? Petrino?

Are you ready for a total rebuild? We are looking at losing most recruits, if not all, and 20+ players in the portal.

Say hello to absolute mediocrity for a few years why we rebuild the program, again.

[DownwardDawg]

Why are we aiming low? We just lost CML one of the best Coaches in history. We can do very well, we seem to always sell ourselves short.
We need to aim high.

I ageee. Our fans consistently sell us short. We are an SEC school and can pay $8-$10 million a year if we have to. This is a damn good job. JWS, Mullen, and Leach all proved you can win 8 or more a year here consistently. Coaches have egos. There's a ton of them out there that think they could have won 10 this year.

[vindastra]

Aim high? Who? Urban Meyer? Klieman? Petrino?

Are you ready for a total rebuild? We are looking at losing most recruits, if not all, and 20+ players in the portal.

Say hello to absolute mediocrity for a few years why we rebuild the program, again.

Assuming we are going to go for total rebuild and need a splash hire, would Chris Petersen come out of retirement?

[CJDAWG85]

I believe they will try to keep this staff intact and continue to run his system so they can keep as many players and recruits as possible. They can go get someone to who knows how to run it.

[Really Clark?]

Assuming we are going to go for total rebuild and need a splash hire, would Chris Petersen come out of retirement?

He hasn't taken serious calls even this year. He's been working on his anxiety and stress since he left Washington.

[Snowman79]

Y?all aren?t gonna wanna hear this, but Joe Judge has been contacted about the head job.

[TrapGame]

Assuming we are going to go for total rebuild and need a splash hire, would Chris Petersen come out of retirement?

If we are going to go for a total rebuild/philosophy change then tell Urban he's got $12 mil a year for 4 years right now. Otherwise I'd stick with Arnett as HC, Brock as DC and Graham Harrell as OC for the foreseeable future.

[BrunswickDawg]

Y?all aren?t gonna wanna hear this, but Joe Judge has been contacted about the head job.

< insertfartnoises >

[TrapGame]

Y?all aren?t gonna wanna hear this, but Joe Judge has been contacted about the head job.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/8vUEXZA2me7vnuUvrs/200w.gif?cid=6c09b9522gb19w53u8ysrardus7ylo7th0oes ptgtryqybzc&rid=200w.gif&ct=g

[Desoto1967]

Y?all aren?t gonna wanna hear this, but Joe Judge has been contacted about the head job.

I guess his wife could wear that maroon dress finally

[Dawgface]

< insertfartnoises >

One was mine......

[msstate7]

Y?all aren?t gonna wanna hear this, but Joe Judge has been contacted about the head job.

That's one I would really have no opinion on until I see us on the field. There's nothing to point to college wise

[Quaoarsking]

What about Bob Stoops? His offense should transfer, and it couldn't hurt to place a call.

[Really Clark?]

What about Bob Stoops? His offense should transfer, and it couldn't hurt to place a call.

Bob was a defensive coach. His offense was whatever OC he had. However, he loved CML offense and variations of it at OK.

[Todd4State]

Y?all aren?t gonna wanna hear this, but Joe Judge has been contacted about the head job.

We would still need an OC.

[Cooterpoot]

Bob Stoops has been chased by a lot bigger fish than State and declined. He's not a realistic option.

[msstate7]

We would still need an OC.

Judge has mostly been a ST coach his career. Could he sell us/us sell him as being a new figurehead but mainly keep the staff and direction intact?

[bulldawg28]

Kendal briles

[DownwardDawg]

That's one I would really have no opinion on until I see us on the field. There's nothing to point to college wise

I agree. If he keeps Arnett and hires a Leach tree OC, then we could do much worse.

[NCDawg]

He hasn't taken serious calls even this year. He's been working on his anxiety and stress since he left Washington.

I remember our AD Byrne tried to get Petersen when he was at Boise. According to sources, he went to Denver to interview him but was unsuccessful in hiring him. The rumor was if he would come with us we even offered to paint our field maroon since he liked Boise's blue field.

[bulldawg28]

Kellen Moore - make it happen

[DownwardDawg]

I remember our AD Byrne tried to get Petersen when he was at Boise. According to sources, he went to Denver to interview him but was unsuccessful in hiring him. The rumor was if he would come with us we even offered to paint our field maroon since he liked Boise's blue field.

He actually agreed to the deal. It was a done deal and he changed his mind. Byrne was telling people Peterson was coming.

[662dawg]

Kellen Moore - make it happen

Jason Garrett

[Todd4State]

Judge has mostly been a ST coach his career. Could he sell us/us sell him as being a new figurehead but mainly keep the staff and direction intact?

I think he could. And I agree with you- coaching in the NFL and college is apples and oranges. Saban wasn't so good as a NFL head coach himself. Bill Walsh was an above average college coach and he won multiple Super Bowls. The NFL is much more about your players whereas college to me is more about your resources.

I have a feeling Spurrier is going to leave anyway unless we name him the HC so that would open a spot for a Seth Littrell.

One thing about Judge is he was under Saban so he may be able to improve our recruiting model.

[Catfish]

Jason Garrett

Interesting....

[Todd4State]

I remember our AD Byrne tried to get Petersen when he was at Boise. According to sources, he went to Denver to interview him but was unsuccessful in hiring him. The rumor was if he would come with us we even offered to paint our field maroon since he liked Boise's blue field.

LOL. No it was more about medical care as he had a then child who is probably an adult or close to it with health issues.

[bulldawg28]

Jason Garrett

I'm with it. The players would need someone with his calm demeanor.

[Catfish]

I'm with it. The players would need someone with his calm demeanor.

I think he would be interesting.. He almost got the Stanford job.

[662dawg]

I'm with it. The players would need someone with his calm demeanor.

Bring in Graham Harrell as his OC, keep Arnette at DC. Man I'm liking the sound of this haha

[662dawg]

I think he would be interesting.. He almost got the Stanford job.

He withdrew his name after meeting with the school. I'm curious to why he did that.

[CaptainObvious]

We would still need an OC.

And a smaller stadium.

[CoachT14]

I get busy for a few hours and no we are talking about Jason Garrett a guy who has never coached college. And Joe Judge. Good lord.

[msudawg1200]

I get busy for a few hours and no we are talking about Jason Garrett a guy who has never coached college. And Joe Judge. Good lord.

I agree. Since we are throwing crap against the wall may I suggest Urban Meyer

[RocketDawg]

I remember our AD Byrne tried to get Petersen when he was at Boise. According to sources, he went to Denver to interview him but was unsuccessful in hiring him. The rumor was if he would come with us we even offered to paint our field maroon since he liked Boise's blue field.

I hope that was just a rumor with no substance. The blue field looks terrible. Some school has a red field and it looks awful as well.

[NCDawg]

I hope that was just a rumor with no substance. The blue field looks terrible. Some school has a red field and it looks awful as well.

It was probably a joke.

[Johnson85]

I agree. Since we are throwing crap against the wall may I suggest Urban Meyer

I'm not against Urban, but only if Saban, Chip Kelly, Brian Kelly, and Dabo turn us down.

[Santiago]

I get busy for a few hours and no we are talking about Jason Garrett a guy who has never coached college. And Joe Judge. Good lord.

Cohen is running this search, apparently, by these names.

[trojandawg]

I would agree if you find a coach like Dan or Gus they can adapt slightly. Dan did well with trash. I don't think Dan would be interested anyway.

Gus would be interesting but a complete change to the offense.

Leach protege of some kid might be way to go modified air raid/spread.

Lot of the names I've seen here just don't have the experience we need for HC at this time in SEC. We don't need another Moorhead experiment. I think Traylor needs more time. Arnett needs more time also.

Of course I feel like a lot of this will depend on how close we were to an AD hire when this happened and what that caniditates thoughts on it are. They will want to make their own hire probably rather than the president and boosters and interim AD doing it

[StarkVegasSteve]

We're in a tough spot under normal circumstances. Add in the transfer portal and early signing day and it's almost untenable. Right now our best bet is either roll with Arnett or find a CEO type coach that would come in for a year and calm the program until we could run a full search.

[CoachT14]

We're in a tough spot under normal circumstances. Add in the transfer portal and early signing day and it's almost untenable. Right now our best bet is either roll with Arnett or find a CEO type coach that would come in for a year and calm the program until we could run a full search.

You can NOT under any circumstances hire a guy for a year. Dear lord our fans sometimes.

[Cooterpoot]

Y'all smokin' today aren't you? And not the good stuff. Some of that Perry Co. class of stuff.
I can't think of many P5 HCs we could hire. Certainly no big names. We'd get a good G5 or a OC from the P5 in all likelihood. I'm not opposed to that, but the timing is so 17d up it's going to be tough. Hoping for the best. But I feel like we could get stuck with basically this staff. My fear is we don't get a good OC. I'm trusting calls have been made. But I know I shouldn't.

[CoachT14]

Cohen is running this search, apparently, by these names.

I mean the guy who hired Cohen is in charge soooo

[Santiago]

I mean the guy who hired Cohen is in charge soooo

When Cohen's name "leaked" out, that caused some ongoing interviews with other candidates to cease.

[Homedawg]

He actually agreed to the deal. It was a done deal and he changed his mind. Byrne was telling people Peterson was coming.

I have some ocean front property in Arizona for sale...

[CoachT14]

When Cohen's name "leaked" out, that caused some ongoing interviews with other candidates to cease.

I know. Just was being a little facetious. Ha.

[Homedawg]

You can NOT under any circumstances hire a guy for a year. Dear lord our fans sometimes.
That's not going to happen.

[trojandawg]

Pushing the AD search back to after the holidays is so misguided.

I would have to agree. AD will want to hire their guy. And if we wait then you are way behind signing day now that it's December. Really wish they would do that in February again

[CoachT14]

That's not going to happen.

We are slowplaying an AD hire and seemingly keeping Arnett as interim. It’s not far fetched that Keenum is taking the moral high road

[redstickdawg]

We are slowplaying an AD hire and seemingly keeping Arnett as interim. It’s not far fetched that Keenum is taking the moral high road

What moral high ground? I think that it is more likely he is going to have another hire from within and that is not good for the school or anyone but the good ole boys.

[CoachT14]

What moral high ground? I think that it is more likely he is going to have another hire from within and that is not good for the school or anyone but the good ole boys.

He’s taking the moral high ground by delaying an AD search and by default delaying a coaching search.

[DownwardDawg]

I hope that was just a rumor with no substance. The blue field looks terrible. Some school has a red field and it looks awful as well.

Complete rumor and BS. Boise field is blue for a reason.

[DownwardDawg]

I have some ocean front property in Arizona for sale...

You're a complete dick these days. Not sure what you have against me but you are a smartass when you reply to my posts. Go **** yourself.
I know for a fact Byrne told someone he was coming.

[Homedawg]

We are slowplaying an AD hire and seemingly keeping Arnett as interim. It’s not far fetched that Keenum is taking the moral high road

He might hire arnett but it won't be for a year.

[Homedawg]

You're a complete dick these days. Not sure what you have against me but you are a smartass when you reply to my posts. Go **** yourself.
I know for a fact Byrne told someone he was coming.

We never had Peterson tell us that. Not even close. Whoever told you that take them off your list of informative people. Sorry you took it so rough. Just a joke man. Chill. And I have nothing against you. Not a thing. Didn't yesterday. Don't today!

[RC3]

Dana Holgorsen. He left WVU for more money from Houston. We can beat their pay. He won 12 games in ?21 and finished with a 7-5 record this year. Had some good seasons at WVU. Had plenty of HC experience. Runs the air raid. Ready made roster. Leach coaching tree. Checks a lot of boxes and seems like he would realistically be interested

[CoachT14]

Dana Holgorsen. He left WVU for more money from Houston. We can beat their pay. He won 12 games in ?21 and finished with a 7-5 record this year. Had some good seasons at WVU. Had plenty of HC experience. Runs the air raid. Ready made roster. Leach coaching tree. Checks a lot of boxes and seems like he would realistically be interested

I would be fine with him. Think I would consider him above Arnett. But sounds like it’s all for naught and we are just going to hire Arnett.

[trojandawg]

He left to move back to Texas

[RC3]

He left to move back to Texas

And more money than WVU wanted to pay him

[RC3]

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-football/2019/1/1/18153591/dana-holgorsen-hired-houston-coach-west-virginia

[Cooterpoot]

And more money than WVU wanted to pay him

WVU didn't care that he left. He hasn't been good at Houston. One good season in 4 years. Two losing seasons. He obviously hasnt taken advantage of the supposed talent pool he moved for. He also failed to realize the transfer portal was coming and would take his top talent. He defines mediocrity.

[RC3]

WVU didn't care that he left. He hasn't been good at Houston. One good season in 4 years. Two losing seasons. He obviously hasnt taken advantage of the supposed talent pool he moved for. He also failed to realize the transfer portal was coming and would take his top talent. He defines mediocrity.

He has won 19 games In the last two years combined. That?s mediocre?
He 100 percent should be in the conversation

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Hire Arnett. Pay him $3m a year- that's low, but he'll take it because he's still several years away from a SEC HC resume and we're letting him bypass that. Hire the DC from Syracuse or promote from within to keep that system. Hire Harrell to keep the air raid. Use the extra million we'll save (vs what Leach + Arnett would have cost) on NIL.

HC is a crapshoot and Arnett has just as good of a chance to work out as the next guy. He's earned it, and he's what's best for the immediate short term too to keep the system stable.

[mo7888]

Hire Arnett. Pay him $3m a year- that's low, but he'll take it because he's still several years away from a SEC HC resume and we're letting him bypass that. Hire the DC from Syracuse or promote from within to keep that system. Hire Harrell to keep the air raid. Use the extra million we'll save (vs what Leach + Arnett would have cost) on NIL.

HC is a crapshoot and Arnett has just as good of a chance to work out as the next guy. He's earned it, and he's what's best for the immediate short term too to keep the system stable.

Well, I'm good with Arnett but let's think this through a bit...the scenario you laid out basically makes him a CEO type of HC and replaces the one thing we know he's good at (being a DC) with a different DC. If we're going that route wouldn't we want to consider a coach with more history/cache for that spot and just keep Arnett at DC?

[Cooterpoot]

He has won 19 games In the last two years combined. That?s mediocre?
He 100 percent should be in the conversation

Is 7-5 what you want? I said he had one good year. Take that one out and it's a losing record. His schedule is nothing too. He's losing to a lot of bad teams.

[RC3]

Is 7-5 what you want? I said he had one good year. Take that one out and it's a losing record. His schedule is nothing too. He's losing to a lot of bad teams.

I?m not saying he is perfect. Sonny Dykes had lows too. I?m saying he checks a lot of the boxes and we should consider him as a realistic replacement for Coach Mike Leach for rest his soul.

[msstate7]

Is 7-5 what you want? I said he had one good year. Take that one out and it's a losing record. His schedule is nothing too. He's losing to a lot of bad teams.

Same conference dykes was in... he has a better conference record than dykes did at smu

[Thick]

I think everyone is forgetting a key factor that is very important to potential HC candidates particularly in the toughest conference in the country. What?s your NIL budget look like right now? You can?t recruit in this landscape without it. Y?all know this, but it?s hard to be successful in any occupation without the resources.

[HoopsDawg]

Hire Arnett. Pay him $3m a year- that's low, but he'll take it because he's still several years away from a SEC HC resume and we're letting him bypass that. Hire the DC from Syracuse or promote from within to keep that system. Hire Harrell to keep the air raid. Use the extra million we'll save (vs what Leach + Arnett would have cost) on NIL.

HC is a crapshoot and Arnett has just as good of a chance to work out as the next guy. He's earned it, and he's what's best for the immediate short term too to keep the system stable.

How has he earned it? Being our DC for 3 years and interviewing for other jobs doesn't qualify him to be a head coach in the SEC. Can he manage a staff? Can he manage a game? Can he lead recruiting? If we end up with Arnett, fine, but you owe to the program to do a national search.

[NCDawg]

Hire Arnett. Pay him $3m a year- that's low, but he'll take it because he's still several years away from a SEC HC resume and we're letting him bypass that. Hire the DC from Syracuse or promote from within to keep that system. Hire Harrell to keep the air raid. Use the extra million we'll save (vs what Leach + Arnett would have cost) on NIL.

HC is a crapshoot and Arnett has just as good of a chance to work out as the next guy. He's earned it, and he's what's best for the immediate short term too to keep the system stable.

Sounds reasonable to me.

[trojandawg]

Correct. People are making the emotional quick out with saying just promote arnett. I really like arnett but we know nothing about him as a hc. Like Mullen to Moorhead. A lot of people wanted granthsm too.

[SteelCurtain74]

How has he earned it? Being our DC for 3 years and interviewing for other jobs doesn't qualify him to be a head coach in the SEC. Can he manage a staff? Can he manage a game? Can he lead recruiting? If we end up with Arnett, fine, but you owe to the program to do a national search.

Thank you. I like Arnett, but this attitude that it should just be given to Arnett seems like a decision made out of convenience instead of competence. If he ends up being the guy, then I will support him 100% but it seems some of the same people saying Deion should have to prove himself in a G5 job before ever being offered the MSU job have abandoned that philosophy with Arnett.

I would prefer a national search first, then if Arnett is the best candidate, then give him the job.

Also, the "we could save money by hiring Arnett" is the most MSU/Larry Templeton type of thinking ever.

[CaptainObvious]

If I were an AD candidate and the President told me I didn?t get to hire my head football coach, the bell cow of the income producing athletics, I tell him to go kick rocks!! Any decent self respecting potential AD wants to hire his Head coaches when positions open up. And placing the interim tag on Arnett for just one year will kill recruiting. A AD should have been hired last week. Now Keenum is in a pickle, unless he plans to make himself the AD.

[ImissCityBagel]

Whatever we do, keep Arnett.

[msstate7]

Whatever we do, keep Arnett.

I'd like to keep arnett. I will say that over the years, I've learned though that we seem to keep a good DC. I wouldn't base a decision on HC on what it means for arnett

[Cowbell]

Hear me out....

Arnette HC and bring back Mullen as OC. We Would freaking roll people.

[Saltydog]

Sad overall situation with Coach Leach. When the page turns where do we go for our next head coach?

Arnett proved enough to be able to run the program?

Mullen on line 2?

I don't think there's any way that we don't hire Arnett on an interim basis and then hire a DC and possibly let Spurrier Jr take the OC reigns.(& if not hire an OC as well). Time is simply not on our side. We don't have an AD, signing day is fast approaching, the transfer portal is open and you have a ton of guys that have committed to coming back. Bring in someone else and people start getting a little nervous wondering where they fit it and and the dominos start to fall. For continuity purposes I'm not sure we have any other options, at least until after next season. We were damn lucky to get CML when we did three years ago. We won't be that lucky again and given the timing of these events there's just too much risk in conducting an extensive search at this point, not unless we hire just to be hiring and I don't advocate that at all. I'm ultra conservative but the smart play here is to keep what we have in place for the time being.

[PikeDawg15]

Kliff Kingsbury
Gary Patterson
Dan Mullen
Chris Peterson
Dave Aranda
Dave Clawson
Deion Sanders
Gus Malzahn
Mike Gundy
Willie Fritz

[CoachT14]

What is some of our fans fascination with Kliff Kingsbury? The guy sucks as a head coach and belongs nowhere near our head job.

[LC Dawg]

I hope that all Mississippi State fans can accept that the success of our next head coach is going to be largely based on luck. We are in an unprecedented bad situation. We have to hire a coach right before (or after) signing day in the middle of the transfer portal and they have to be able to sign players, keep players, and also be ready to coach in the shadow of a famous coach that just passed away. There is no ideal candidate because this scenario has never existed.

[yjnkdawg]

What moral high ground? I think that it is more likely he is going to have another hire from within and that is not good for the school or anyone but the good ole boys.

Has nothing to do with the good ole boys. There is not an ideal situation under these circumstances. We need a HC by this first signing period if possible, and somebody who can keep the players together. You completely start over from scratch and see how many players transfer. Let's go with Arnett at HC and let him choose his staff but get an OC who has AR experience and go with it,

[Cowbell]

What is some of our fans fascination with Kliff Kingsbury? The guy sucks as a head coach and belongs nowhere near our head job.

They obviously didn't watch him coach at tech - those teams were trash at times. I mean it was bad. He does not understand line of scrimmage football and will get destroyed in this league.

[lastmajordog]

del

[Saltydog]

Kliff Kingsbury
Gary Patterson
Dan Mullen
Chris Peterson
Dave Aranda
Dave Clawson
Deion Sanders
Gus Malzahn
Mike Gundy
Willie Fritz

Your list is a dream. No way in hell Kingsbury even sniffs this job, nor does Deion, Gundy or Aranda. Mullen 2.0 likely isn't happening either. Some of you guys just aren't being rational here.

[Quaoarsking]

Kliff Kingsbury
Gary Patterson
Dan Mullen
Chris Peterson
Dave Aranda
Dave Clawson
Deion Sanders
Gus Malzahn
Mike Gundy
Willie Fritz

#9 is head and shoulders above the rest and is the obvious hire if he wants the job

[Cowbell]

Any talk of bringing Dan Mullen back is pure insanity. Anyone that took a girlfriend back after she dumped you and then got crushed by a redneck heartthrob but comes back knows it is a HORRIBLE mistake.
As an OC?

[Catfish]

#9 is head and shoulders above the rest and is the obvious hire if he wants the job

Be hard to get him to leave Ok St.

[DownwardDawg]

Any talk of bringing Dan Mullen back is pure insanity. Anyone that took a girlfriend back after she dumped you and then got crushed by a redneck heartthrob but comes back knows it is a HORRIBLE mistake.

It would be the dumbest thing ever.

[DownwardDawg]

As an OC?

Will Rogers QB draw on 3rd and 12. Yeah.....

[BhamDawg]

It would be the dumbest thing ever.

There are about a dozen dumber ideas in this thread alone.

[msstate7]

Any talk of bringing Dan Mullen back is pure insanity. Anyone that took a girlfriend back after she dumped you and then got crushed by a redneck heartthrob but comes back knows it is a HORRIBLE mistake.

North Carolina seems to be doing just fine

[TNDawg35]

It’s amazing how some of y’all did nothing but bitch about the air raid and how it never would work, and now the same people are clamoring about making sure we stay with the air raid…

[BhamDawg]

It’s amazing how some of y’all did nothing but bitch about the air raid and how it never would work, and now the same people are clamoring about making sure we stay with the air raid…

Say it louder for the people in the back!

[msstate7]

It?s amazing how some of y?all did nothing but bitch about the air raid and how it never would work, and now the same people are clamoring about making sure we stay with the air raid?

I'd ditch it in a second. Since most here believe we should stick with it, I feel like our admin will agree, so I looked for some i could live with

[Twanger]

I know this name sounds ridiculous, but I think it would be a great fit, especially since Auburn has Freeze.Forgiveness and all that stuff. Bobby Petrino. Sounds crazy , but he puts up points.

[HoopsDawg]

Hear me out....

Arnette HC and bring back Mullen as OC. We Would freaking roll people.

Why even post this?

[DownwardDawg]

I don't know what I want. I guess I'm just numb but trying to think about what's best for State. A Leach disciple that runs a more modern version similar to Tennessee would be great. I don't know who that would be.
A spread offense based on power running similar to what Auburn ran under malzahn fits our recruiting base better.
Hell I don't know anymore. I just hope whatever it is , it turns out good for us.
Hail State.

[Nutriaitch]

i haven’t read last 5 pages or so, and i’m not a State guy, but a name that was mentioned in LSU chat circles.

what about Rich Rodriguez?

no, not true Air Raid.
but his version of the spread Option wouldn’t require a complete flip of your roster.
could take over right now, and have almost immediate success.

has ties to LA, MS, AL, and SC for recruiting purposes.

[KOdawg1]

i haven’t read last 5 pages or so, and i’m not a State guy, but a name that was mentioned in LSU chat circles.

what about Rich Rodriguez?

no, not true Air Raid.
but his version of the spread Option wouldn’t require a complete flip of your roster.
could take over right now, and have almost immediate success.

has ties to LA, MS, AL, and SC for recruiting purposes.


No thanks. Our offensive personnel isn't geared towards a spread option offense at all.

[KOdawg1]

It?s amazing how some of y?all did nothing but bitch about the air raid and how it never would work, and now the same people are clamoring about making sure we stay with the air raid?

I bitched about how I didn't think the air raid in its purest form could work.

I'm all for running a modern air raid offense.

[CJDAWG85]

Will apparently has 2 years of eligibility left according to SEC Network. You run the offense he knows already. We don’t need to change anything.

[Cooterpoot]

It?s amazing how some of y?all did nothing but bitch about the air raid and how it never would work, and now the same people are clamoring about making sure we stay with the air raid?

We're stuck hiring Arnett to keep recruits and current players. The same ones recruited to play in the air raid. Everyone can forget any other candidates unless Arnett just doesn't want it (He does). If we were hiring a new coach with a system, it wouldn't be a problem.
Common sense is your friend.

[trojandawg]

I bitched about how I didn't think the air raid in its purest form could work.

I'm all for running a modern air raid offense.

This what I would prefer having gone this route. Run the kind that USC, houston, OU, TCU has been running

[BeardoMSU]

I bitched about how I didn't think the air raid in its purest form could work.

I'm all for running a modern air raid offense.

Same.

[trojandawg]

Yes I feel like AD will be hired by the bowl game. I know Dellenger said it would be after holidays but I expect us to have an AD by the end of calendar year. These guys can/will do final interviews in a week or two

[Tripp McNeely]

No thanks. Our offensive personnel isn't geared towards a spread option offense at all.

Did somebody honestly just suggest Rich Rod for our new head coach? That's a thing that just, actually happened?

[BeardoMSU]

Dan Holgorson would probably be a great fit, considering obviously scheme, but also the schools he's coached at (smaller, not bluebloods; similar to Mike).

No doubt we could offer him way more money than Houston, would just depend if he wants to leave TX and follow in his mentor's footsteps.

[GATORDawg1234]

Mullen and Monken are the only qualified candidates at this point. Zach Arnett is unqualified now and should not even receive an interview.

I suppose the moderator disagrees, because none of my pro-Mullen statements get posted, and the board is littered with dumb pro-Arnett propaganda. Zach Arnett is the Rick Ray of football and would be a terrible mistake. State should make him the highest-paid DC in America, not head coach.

But I suppose nobody will read this?

[GATORDawg1234]

The mod is not posting pro-Mullen comments. They censure more than pre-Musk Twitter. That is why we are reading the most absurd candidates; the moderators want Arnett.

[Cowbell]

Did somebody honestly just suggest Rich Rod for our new head coach? That's a thing that just, actually happened?

Well it was an LSU fan

[vindastra]

Yes I feel like AD will be hired by the bowl game. I know Dellenger said it would be after holidays but I expect us to have an AD by the end of calendar year. These guys can/will do final interviews in a week or two

Since the AD search is paused, it's possible Dr. Keenum feels that the Coaching hire takes precedence over AD search. Didn't Howland hire happen outside the purview of AD?

[Cowbell]

Why even post this?

Because this thread has few rational ideas and I wanted to fit in....

[Todd4State]

We're stuck hiring Arnett to keep recruits and current players. The same ones recruited to play in the air raid. Everyone can forget any other candidates unless Arnett just doesn't want it (He does). If we were hiring a new coach with a system, it wouldn't be a problem.
Common sense is your friend.

In other words we're going to do what Ole Miss did with Matt Luke and Houston Nutt and hope it works out better.

[GATORDawg1234]

Why will the mods not allow any pro-Dan Mullen sentiment? He is available and qualified.

I have never seen such censorship in my life.

[Cooterpoot]

Since the AD search is paused, it's possible Dr. Keenum feels that the Coaching hire takes precedence over AD search. Didn't Howland hire happen outside the purview of AD?

Wouldn't surprise me if Arnett is named end of the week. Got to have some things settled by signing day.

[Cooterpoot]

In other words we're going to do what Ole Miss did with Matt Luke and Houston Nutt and hope it works out better.

Completely different situation due to circumstances. It all comes down to who is OC. If Arnett goes and gets a good OC, then things might work out. If not, woof. But it is what it is.

[BeardoMSU]

Wouldn't surprise me if Arnett is named end of the week. Got to have some things settled by signing day.

That is not an intelligent decision.

[Activated Alpha]

Honestly wouldn?t mind Dana or Kliff. It sucks that this has happened and the sports world will only pause for this one day. Afterwards it?s back to usual business. What is truly sad is that by next year, it?ll be back to the bloodthirsty world of SEC football

[CarolinaDawgs]

Y'all smokin' today aren't you? And not the good stuff. Some of that Perry Co. class of stuff.
I can't think of many P5 HCs we could hire. Certainly no big names. We'd get a good G5 or a OC from the P5 in all likelihood. I'm not opposed to that, but the timing is so 17d up it's going to be tough. Hoping for the best. But I feel like we could get stuck with basically this staff. My fear is we don't get a good OC. I'm trusting calls have been made. But I know I shouldn't.

This the same SOB said leach would never come? Just go be a fan of someone else. You are lame.

Go read swing your sword and then maybe you?ll have an opportunity at addressing your fear.

[trojandawg]

I bitched about how I didn't think the air raid in its purest form could work.

I'm all for running a modern air raid offense.


I don't know what I want. I guess I'm just numb but trying to think about what's best for State. A Leach disciple that runs a more modern version similar to Tennessee would be great. I don't know who that would be.
A spread offense based on power running similar to what Auburn ran under malzahn fits our recruiting base better.
Hell I don't know anymore. I just hope whatever it is , it turns out good for us.
Hail State.

Just go get the best coach available for the right fit. Run spread of air raid modified disciple. Prefer head coach somewhere but not a given. We are replacing such a top notch and top tier guy anyone will probably be a step down unless keenum and new AD knock it out

[trojandawg]

Not really. We didn't when we hired leach.m

[memsu06]

We are in a unique position. Leach has assembled an awesome coaching staff. I wouldn't change anything about it.

He has us nearly fully transitioned over to the Air Raid system. We have continuity on defense with Arnett.

It makes sense to go after one of his former players/students of the game. The new HC will be walking into a team ready to take off.

[Todd4State]

We are in a unique position. Leach has assembled an awesome coaching staff. I wouldn't change anything about it.

He has us nearly fully transitioned over to the Air Raid system. We have continuity on defense with Arnett.

It makes sense to go after one of his former players/students of the game. The new HC will be walking into a team ready to take off.

The whole silver lining to Joe Moorhead is we got a warning about having a veteran team and then trying to undergo a massive shift in philosophy.

I'm embarrassed that I bought his kool aid and thought he could make Fitz into a decent passer.

[bulldawg28]

Honestly wouldn?t mind Dana or Kliff. It sucks that this has happened and the sports world will only pause for this one day. Afterwards it?s back to usual business. What is truly sad is that by next year, it?ll be back to the bloodthirsty world of SEC football

Yep, it's the unfortunate reality

[RiverCityDawg]

He might hire arnett but it won't be for a year.

Homedawg, what do you think the odds are of Keenum taking the interim tag off Arnett sooner rather than later? Legit possibility?

[RiverCityDawg]

I hope that all Mississippi State fans can accept that the success of our next head coach is going to be largely based on luck. We are in an unprecedented bad situation. We have to hire a coach right before (or after) signing day in the middle of the transfer portal and they have to be able to sign players, keep players, and also be ready to coach in the shadow of a famous coach that just passed away. There is no ideal candidate because this scenario has never existed.

This post probably needs to be pinned to the top of the board.

[CoachT14]

Did somebody honestly just suggest Rich Rod for our new head coach? That's a thing that just, actually happened?

I mean we have had several really bad suggestions.

- Kliff Kingsbury - who?s been a failure as head coach at every level.
- Jason Garrett who?s never been a college coach at any level.

[BeardoMSU]

I mean we have had several really bad suggestions.

- Kliff Kingsbury - who?s been a failure as head coach at every level.
- Jason Garrett who?s never been a college coach at any level.

Don't forget Kellan Moore....who called a play where all 5 pass catchers ran the same depth curl-routes and all broke at the same time.**

[HancockCountyDog]

We have to hire the best coach we can, it does not have to be an air raid guy.

We have the talent to Run the ball more, we cant just look through air raid guys only.

[msstate7]

We have to hire the best coach we can, it does not have to be an air raid guy.

We have the talent to Run the ball more, we cant just look through air raid guys only.

For real. I don't why this is such a hot take here

[CoachT14]

We have to hire the best coach we can, it does not have to be an air raid guy.

We have the talent to Run the ball more, we cant just look through air raid guys only.

I mean most Modern Air Raid guys are 50/50 Pass/Run. Leach was one of the few still running it in the purest form.

[Jarius]

Homedawg, what do you think the odds are of Keenum taking the interim tag off Arnett sooner rather than later? Legit possibility?

I don’t know what the odds are, but he has no business making that decision without an AD in place and the fact that he doesn’t plan on naming an AD until after the holidays when we are in our current state is concerning.

[PMDawg]

Jason Garrett

Sean Payton**

[Johnson85]

For real. I don't why this is such a hot take here

Because there is very likely no coach we can pull that would justify us guaranteeing a rebuild on offense. Name the coaches that are such a sure thing, that we can actually pull, that it's worth having to rebuild on the offensive side of the ball?

Malzahn?

Mullen? (I don't think his style of player management will do well in the transfer/portal world, even if he could convince people that he still has the fire to be a head coach right now, which I doubt he does, although it may come back after a year or two more off).

Mike Gundy (we're not getting him to leave Ok St.)

If we're looking at two equally risky candidates, why would you take the one that guarantees a difficult transition?

[msstate7]

Because there is very likely no coach we can pull that would justify us guaranteeing a rebuild on offense. Name the coaches that are such a sure thing, that we can actually pull, that it's worth having to rebuild on the offensive side of the ball?

Malzahn?

Mullen? (I don't think his style of player management will do well in the transfer/portal world, even if he could convince people that he still has the fire to be a head coach right now, which I doubt he does, although it may come back after a year or two more off).

Mike Gundy (we're not getting him to leave Ok St.)

If we're looking at two equally risky candidates, why would you take the one that guarantees a difficult transition?

Our offense wasn't good this year though. What exactly are we saving?

[TNDawg35]

I really wish we would give Gus a look and let Arnette stay DC.

Or here’s an idea. WhT about Ol Ball Coach. Let him be the CEO and let Spurrier JR be coach in waiting. Let Jr get the ropes of it all and take over in a couple seasonss

[CoachT14]

Our offense wasn't good this year though. What exactly are we saving?

Our offense wasn't good cause of the QB. The scheme is fine.

[TrapGame]

We are in a unique position. Leach has assembled an awesome coaching staff. I wouldn't change anything about it.

He has us nearly fully transitioned over to the Air Raid system. We have continuity on defense with Arnett.

It makes sense to go after one of his former players/students of the game. The new HC will be walking into a team ready to take off.

A lot of people around here fail to grasp this. They want to bring in a new HC and start from square one all over again. Then I'm sure the same people will be bitching about the new coach b/c he's not turning it around fast enough.

[Johnson85]

Our offense wasn't good this year though. What exactly are we saving?

Our offense wasn't good this year, but it's got a lot of pieces in place and it's a lot better than it will be than if we ask this personnel plus a few transfers of the type we'd be likely to get to run a non-air raid based offense.

That said, if we have a coaching candidate that can bring in a QB, it may not be that bad of a transition. I just don't know what happens if you ask this group of OL to switch to a more traditional scheme.

[HancockCountyDog]

A lot of people around here fail to grasp this. They want to bring in a new HC and start from square one all over again. Then I'm sure the same people will be bitching about the new coach b/c he's not turning it around fast enough.

No one is hoping we go to a triple option or a Relf offense.

The issue is that CML was a 1 of 1 in a lot of ways. We were the only school in the country that ran this offense. Now, does that mean we scrap the entire air raid and start over? No, but we can't just rule out candidates because they may have a 50/50 balance. Now, can we hire a coach that requires the QB to run it 8-10 times a game? Sure, we could, but we would have to hit the portal because Parsons won't be ready for that and that isn't our best choice.

All of this is moot if we are just going to hire Arnett, let him hire an OC that is very air raid friendly and go from there, which is very likely, especially if he wins the bowl game.

[HoopsDawg]

Our offense wasn't good this year though. What exactly are we saving?

Imagine if we had lost the Egg Bowl. No one would want the Air Raid. Hire the best coach Keenum.

[Johnson85]

No one is hoping we go to a triple option or a Relf offense.

The issue is that CML was a 1 of 1 in a lot of ways. We were the only school in the country that ran this offense. Now, does that mean we scrap the entire air raid and start over? No, but we can't just rule out candidates because they may have a 50/50 balance. Now, can we hire a coach that requires the QB to run it 8-10 times a game? Sure, we could, but we would have to hit the portal because Parsons won't be ready for that and that isn't our best choice.

All of this is moot if we are just going to hire Arnett, let him hire an OC that is very air raid friendly and go from there, which is very likely, especially if he wins the bowl game.

It's not about run v. pass balance, it's about personnel. If our OL can block for the scheme and they are bringing a QB that can run it (not sure Will can do anything too far away from the Leach version or air raid), then it doesn't matter if that scheme ends up at 60/40 run pass. But if you want to switch to a scheme that our current OL are not suited to run, that's just unnecessarily painful for the program unless you are getting they type of sure thing head coach that we are just unlikely to be in the running for, unless you consider Malzahn that type of coach.

[TrapGame]

No one is hoping we go to a triple option or a Relf offense.

The issue is that CML was a 1 of 1 in a lot of ways. We were the only school in the country that ran this offense. Now, does that mean we scrap the entire air raid and start over? No, but we can't just rule out candidates because they may have a 50/50 balance. Now, can we hire a coach that requires the QB to run it 8-10 times a game? Sure, we could, but we would have to hit the portal because Parsons won't be ready for that and that isn't our best choice.

All of this is moot if we are just going to hire Arnett, let him hire an OC that is very air raid friendly and go from there, which is very likely, especially if he wins the bowl game.

Anybody not wanting a modified air raid guy at this point is an idiot. And that's the point b/c we have guys that want to go get a ground and pound offensive minded head coach. If we do that we'll be extremely lucky to win 6 games next season.

I'd be surprised if we don't hire Arnett.

[msstate7]

Imagine if we had lost the Egg Bowl. No one would want the Air Raid. Hire the best coach Keenum.

And arnett wouldn't be a candidate at all.

[HoopsDawg]

Anybody not wanting a modified air raid guy at this point is an idiot. And that's the point b/c we have guys that want to go get a ground and pound offensive minded head coach. If we do that we'll be extremely lucky to win 6 games next season.

I'd be surprised if we don't hire Arnett.

what is a ground and pound these days other than the service academies and Bert? I will say this, I would love a coach who could run a QB sneak on 4th and inches.

[Cooterpoot]

Hmmmmmm, lots of rumors. Things might not be as they seem. End of the week should tell us a lot.

[msstate7]

what is a ground and pound these days other than the service academies and Bert? I will say this, I would love a coach who could run a QB sneak on 4th and inches.

Qb sneaks seem to be a lost art for all college coaches. It's basically automatic in the nfl... not sure why it isn't used in college

[HoopsDawg]

And arnett wouldn't be a candidate at all.

I can't believe he's a serious candidate. We are a Top 30 job. The SEC is big business. You are hiring the front man for your multi-million dollar business. You better do a national search. We could miss on 10 targets and Arnett would still take the job. Naming him coach without a real search would be monumentally dumb.

[bulldawg28]

Hmmmmmm, lots of rumors. Things might not be as they seem. End of the week should tell us a lot.

What are you hearing?

[HoopsDawg]

Qb sneaks seem to be a lost art for all college coaches. It's basically automatic in the nfl... not sure why it isn't used in college

It's just b/c there are coaches out there who never go under center. But I don't know what TCU was thinking not running the sneak with Duggan. They are lucky it didn't cost them a playoff spot.

[msstate7]

What are you hearing?

Well he was screaming arnett all day yesterday, so this seems like he's moving away from that prediction.

I really hope this is the case. I love ZA, but man, I don't know about HC. If this unfortunate event had happened when diaz, Collins, grantham, or shoop were here, I woulda been against all them too even though they were great

[mo7888]

Our offense wasn't good cause of the QB. The scheme is fine.

This pretty much..

[was21]

Exactly. And with the transfer portal utilized efficiently the composition of a roster can change overnight.

[Catfish]

Well he was screaming arnett all day yesterday, so this seems like he's moving away from that prediction.

I really hope this is the case. I love ZA, but man, I don't know about HC. If this unfortunate event had happened when diaz, Collins, grantham, or shoop were here, I woulda been against all them too even though they were great

Agree, I want ZA to stay right where he is. Love his defense.... and it really pissed of Kiffin.

[Johnson85]

I can't believe he's a serious candidate. We are a Top 30 job. The SEC is big business. You are hiring the front man for your multi-million dollar business. You better do a national search. We could miss on 10 targets and Arnett would still take the job. Naming him coach without a real search would be monumentally dumb.

He's a successful P5 coordinator. He doesn't have a track record with the length you would typically want, but he's coached under a great defensive mind and now under a great head coach and has shown success as a DC. He's already shown he can be successful with the type of recruits we get against the competition we play. He's checks all the boxes for the type of experience you want, just not the length. I agree you have to do a national search, but I disagree that he's not a top 10 candidate. Now would he be if he were not already here? Likely not because of his short track record, but he is here and that does play into it.

[Dawgface]

Hmmmmmm, lots of rumors. Things might not be as they seem. End of the week should tell us a lot.

Speaking in terms of AD or HC? If an AD is in place that will help get the ball rolling on making a decision on a coach.

[Homedawg]

Homedawg, what do you think the odds are of Keenum taking the interim tag off Arnett sooner rather than later? Legit possibility?

There is a bit of rumbling about it. I can't put a percentage on it, yet.

[trojandawg]

He's making a lot of money at OK State, but I think big 12 is falling out of prestige losing OU and Texas. That's why you might be able to pull Aranda or Gundy. Aranda more so than Gundy.

[trojandawg]

Dana runs the ball more for sure. Probably more modern. Is he up on the portal though and recruiting. Does he want to leave texas

[trojandawg]

I like arnett but I would go after Aranda before him. Proven he can be a head coach at power 5 wouldn't take much to get him to SEC. If we are going the Defensive guy route.

[KOdawg1]

I like arnett but I would go after Aranda before him. Proven he can be a head coach at power 5 wouldn't take much to get him to SEC. If we are going the Defensive guy route.

Aranda ain't coming

[DownwardDawg]

Aranda ain't coming

Good. I doubt he's asked to come.

[Op4isabitch]

Aranda ain't coming

How do we know that for sure? Armada is from the Leach tree, has HC experience and dammit, if we could get the GOAT we sure as hell could get one of his disciples. MSU isn’t a bottom feeder Nationally. We sell our selves short all of the time and it’s maddening.

[bulldawg28]

Well he was screaming arnett all day yesterday, so this seems like he's moving away from that prediction.

I really hope this is the case. I love ZA, but man, I don't know about HC. If this unfortunate event had happened when diaz, Collins, grantham, or shoop were here, I woulda been against all them too even though they were great

Understandable

[Cooterpoot]

I would kick the tires on Kittley, Fritz, Klieman, Riley, for sure. If Kingsbury gets fired and we can keep Arnett as DC, that would at least be interesting. This could all end this week with Arnett or it could be into Jan. Let's see Keenum earn his pay the next couple weeks, lol.
So many different versions of things and different boosters saying different things too. I can't even get a response beyond the eyeball emoji from a friend that's normally on this kind of stuff. I guess we all figure it out the next 3-5 days. Signing day is something to really watch now.

[HoopsDawg]

I would kick the tires on Kittley, Fritz, Klieman, Riley, for sure. If Kingsbury gets fired and we can keep Arnett as DC, that would at least be interesting. This could all end this week with Arnett or it could be into Jan. Let's see Keenum earn his pay the next couple weeks, lol.
So many different versions of things and different boosters saying different things too.

Klieman would be my first call. He only makes 3.5 so he would at least listen.

[trojandawg]

Aranda ain't coming

You don't know that. We got leach to come here. With the right money and SEC he would come.

[Coursesuper]

You don't know that. We got leach to come here. With the right money and SEC he would come.

Baylor has $$$$ we can?t come close to.

[Johnson85]

You don't know that. We got leach to come here. With the right money and SEC he would come.

He makes $6M. I'm not sure his record so far justifies throwing a lot more than that at him. Plus, with the expanded playoffs and the SEC being considerably tougher than the Big 12, I'm not sure if the SEC is as big of a draw or not. On the one hand, the SEC can plausibly get 4 teams into an expanded playoff. On the other hand, is it going to be easier to be top 4 in the SEC than top 1 or 2 in a depleted Big 12?

Plus, let's say conference alignment continues to happen and a school like Baylor gets left out. With how quickly coaches get cycled through, successful coaches are still going to get opportunities in whatever super conference(s) emerge.

[PMDawg]

I don't understand all this "We should bring in X as head coach and keep Arnett as DC" talk. That's not a decision we, as MSU, will get to make. We're not going to go hold a national search and tell our targets "we want you to take our HC position, but you have to keep our current DC". Now, a new coach may want to keep him, but that's totally on the coach. Most of them would come with their own DC.

The only way MSU makes the decision to keep Arnett is if we attempt to keep the entire staff together by promoting from within (Arnett included).

[WinningIsRelentless]

Don?t be surprised if we have a coach before we have a AD. Might have been Leach recommendation.

[AROB44]

Klieman would be my first call. He only makes 3.5 so he would at least listen.

Yep....he's a good one.

[Johnson85]

Klieman would be my first call. He only makes 3.5 so he would at least listen.

Without knowing much about him other than his wikipedia, that seems like a pretty reasonable candidate.

I think he and Shane Beamer are people that should at least get a significant raise out of this situation. Both should get calls and should be credible enough candidates that their school should be willing to up their pay by $500k to $1M (probably at least $1M for Beamer)

[DownwardDawg]

Don?t be surprised if we have a coach before we have a AD. Might have been Leach recommendation.

Kinda what I was thinking.

[trojandawg]

Is this going back to the rumor he was planning on retiring because of his health?

[Really Clark?]

Klieman would be my first call. He only makes 3.5 so he would at least listen.

He just signed an extension to 2026 for $4.3 per year

[HancockCountyDog]

Klieman would be my first call. He only makes 3.5 so he would at least listen.

I totally agree, but you are definitely switching offenses. He doesn't run anything close to an air raid.

[HoopsDawg]

I totally agree, but you are definitely switching offenses. He doesn't run anything close to an air raid.

Yep!!!

[ScoobaDawg]

Don?t be surprised if we have a coach before we have a AD. Might have been Leach recommendation.

I was wondering about this last night... If Leach was seriously considering stepping down.. he would have had some suggestions I'm sure about keeping the program going.

[Really Clark?]

I was wondering about this last night... If Leach was seriously considering stepping down.. he would have had some suggestions I'm sure about keeping the program going.

Yes and with extensive coaching tree and development of coaches, you pay close attention. Arnett is not just a name because he is on staff. Not saying we will or should or that he would accept but he is highly regarded.

[gtowndawg]

I was wondering about this last night... If Leach was seriously considering stepping down.. he would have had some suggestions I'm sure about keeping the program going.

This is the most intriguing thing I've read. If so, who would he have suggested because I'm at a loss on this one. I honestly don't know who a viable candidate would be right now other than.....Mullen.

I know it's not perfect but if I look as an outside observer he's the one that makes the most sense. I think he could keep Arnett, he knows all the connections to keep the class together, he has a track record of success here and I think he's good enough offensively to take what he knows and adapt it to what we have (at least as good as anyone else). I had my problems with how he shopped himself around but would he really do that again after it failing last time? I think he would be more drawn to retiring after us that moving on. Tough situation....

edited: he's also the only coach I could imagine taking the job not knowing who the AD is even going to be.

[trojandawg]

I don't know if I believe that though based on last week. There weren't many indications he was planning on stepping down and retiring. Seemed to be recruiting and doing bowl prep. If you are retiring, I figured that would have been announced after egg bowl.

[ScoobaDawg]

This is the most intriguing thing I've read. If so, who would he have suggested because I'm at a loss on this one. I honestly don't know who a viable candidate would be right now other than.....Mullen.

I know it's not perfect but if I look as an outside observer he's the one that makes the most sense. I think he could keep Arnett, he knows all the connections to keep the class together, he has a track record of success here and I think he's good enough offensively to take what he knows and adapt it to what we have (at least as good as anyone else). I had my problems with how he shopped himself around but would he really do that again after it failing last time? I think he would be more drawn to retiring after us that moving on. Tough situation....

Maybe an OC from one of leach's tree branches? maybe someone he didn't directly coach but has kept up with. I don't think he would suggest Mullen.

[TheLostDawg]

This is the most intriguing thing I've read. If so, who would he have suggested because I'm at a loss on this one. I honestly don't know who a viable candidate would be right now other than.....Mullen.

I know it's not perfect but if I look as an outside observer he's the one that makes the most sense. I think he could keep Arnett, he knows all the connections to keep the class together, he has a track record of success here and I think he's good enough offensively to take what he knows and adapt it to what we have (at least as good as anyone else). I had my problems with how he shopped himself around but would he really do that again after it failing last time? I think he would be more drawn to retiring after us that moving on. Tough situation....

edited: he's also the only coach I could imagine taking the job not knowing who the AD is even going to be.

# Manny Diaz

[gtowndawg]

Maybe an OC from one of leach's tree branches? maybe someone he didn't directly coach but has kept up with. I don't think he would suggest Mullen.

No, didn't mean to suggest Leach would have recommended Mullen. I was just adding my own thoughts to the post.

[trojandawg]

I don't think Mullen is drawn to us. I think he and his family have moved in and don't have a desire to move back to Starkville based on his on comments on radio just a few weeks ago.

[Todd4State]

This is the most intriguing thing I've read. If so, who would he have suggested because I'm at a loss on this one. I honestly don't know who a viable candidate would be right now other than.....Mullen.

I know it's not perfect but if I look as an outside observer he's the one that makes the most sense. I think he could keep Arnett, he knows all the connections to keep the class together, he has a track record of success here and I think he's good enough offensively to take what he knows and adapt it to what we have (at least as good as anyone else). I had my problems with how he shopped himself around but would he really do that again after it failing last time? I think he would be more drawn to retiring after us that moving on. Tough situation....

I highly doubt we hire Dan. Like I said we could realistically get Todd Monken after the playoffs and announce him before or we could get Chris Hatcher right now. We have options but it's certainly limited. I think that's what Keenum will do but I could be wrong. I do think hiring Arnett is very knee jerk at this point.

[Todd4State]

I don't think Mullen is drawn to us. I think he and his family have moved in and don't have a desire to move back to Starkville based on his on comments on radio just a few weeks ago.

Dan would have no problem using us again. I assure you.

[gtowndawg]

I don't think Mullen is drawn to us. I think he and his family have moved in and don't have a desire to move back to Starkville based on his on comments on radio just a few weeks ago.

I can buy that mainly because he has a son pursuing golf at a critical point in life. It would make sense for that and school to factor into Mullen's equation.

[StarkVegasSteve]

All these lists are great and during a normal coaching we might even be able to get a couple of them. But guys, this is the furthest thing from a normal coaching search we will ever see. First off, I doubt there are many coaches who would take this job presently. It is a terrible situation and either you bring in a new coach and force a staff on him that is not his so he is the outsider or you bring in a new coach and he brings in his own staff and you have 30-40 guys transfer and you probably lose 10-15 recruits.

We are taking a massive gamble any direction. And personally I would take the gamble that we know will keep the roster over the gamble that could set us back 5-10 years. Because if we lose this staff that will happen. Right now our best choice is elevate Arnett and either try to entice an OC to come that has Air Raid experience or promote Hollingshead or Miller to that job and backfill if you need to.

[gtowndawg]

All these lists are great and during a normal coaching we might even be able to get a couple of them. But guys, this is the furthest thing from a normal coaching search we will ever see. First off, I doubt there are many coaches who would take this job presently. It is a terrible situation and either you bring in a new coach and force a staff on him that is not his so he is the outsider or you bring in a new coach and he brings in his own staff and you have 30-40 guys transfer and you probably lose 10-15 recruits.

We are taking a massive gamble any direction. And personally I would take the gamble that we know will keep the roster over the gamble that could set us back 5-10 years. Because if we lose this staff that will happen. Right now our best choice is elevate Arnett and either try to entice an OC to come that has Air Raid experience or promote Hollingshead or Miller to that job and backfill if you need to.

Where in a tight spot for sure

[msstate7]

What olinemen are expected back next season among starters?

[Coach34]

What olinemen are expected back next season among starters?

all except our Center

[TrapGame]

All these lists are great and during a normal coaching we might even be able to get a couple of them. But guys, this is the furthest thing from a normal coaching search we will ever see. First off, I doubt there are many coaches who would take this job presently. It is a terrible situation and either you bring in a new coach and force a staff on him that is not his so he is the outsider or you bring in a new coach and he brings in his own staff and you have 30-40 guys transfer and you probably lose 10-15 recruits.

We are taking a massive gamble any direction. And personally I would take the gamble that we know will keep the roster over the gamble that could set us back 5-10 years. Because if we lose this staff that will happen. Right now our best choice is elevate Arnett and either try to entice an OC to come that has Air Raid experience or promote Hollingshead or Miller to that job and backfill if you need to.

That's what I've been saying but we have people on this board that still hate Leach, even in death, and are willing to blow the entire football program back to the Stone Age to get away from any concept of the Air Raid..

I just hope like hell we have people in the University with better foresight.

[DownwardDawg]

I don't think Mullen is drawn to us. I think he and his family have moved in and don't have a desire to move back to Starkville based on his on comments on radio just a few weeks ago.

MSU isn't interested in Dan Mullen.

[Catfish]

MSU isn't interested in Dan Mullen.

Bingo!

[shoeless joe]

MSU isn't interested in Dan Mullen.

May very well be accurate…but that feeling would not be mutual.

[Jarius]

All these lists are great and during a normal coaching we might even be able to get a couple of them. But guys, this is the furthest thing from a normal coaching search we will ever see. First off, I doubt there are many coaches who would take this job presently. It is a terrible situation and either you bring in a new coach and force a staff on him that is not his so he is the outsider or you bring in a new coach and he brings in his own staff and you have 30-40 guys transfer and you probably lose 10-15 recruits.

We are taking a massive gamble any direction. And personally I would take the gamble that we know will keep the roster over the gamble that could set us back 5-10 years. Because if we lose this staff that will happen. Right now our best choice is elevate Arnett and either try to entice an OC to come that has Air Raid experience or promote Hollingshead or Miller to that job and backfill if you need to.


Very few coaches that we could have hired previously would hesitate to take it now. The transfer portal is a game changer and anyone we hire can immediately flip a roster very quickly. Also, zero chance we lose 40 guys no matter what we do. That just isn’t going to happen. There are a lot of people who would love to take over an 8 win team with a lot returning and a favorable schedule next year.

[msstate7]

all except our Center
Haven't all played in a system other than leach's? Just curious bc if they have, I think a year 1 transformation wouldn't be so bad.

[Lord McBuckethead]

All these lists are great and during a normal coaching we might even be able to get a couple of them. But guys, this is the furthest thing from a normal coaching search we will ever see. First off, I doubt there are many coaches who would take this job presently. It is a terrible situation and either you bring in a new coach and force a staff on him that is not his so he is the outsider or you bring in a new coach and he brings in his own staff and you have 30-40 guys transfer and you probably lose 10-15 recruits.

We are taking a massive gamble any direction. And personally I would take the gamble that we know will keep the roster over the gamble that could set us back 5-10 years. Because if we lose this staff that will happen. Right now our best choice is elevate Arnett and either try to entice an OC to come that has Air Raid experience or promote Hollingshead or Miller to that job and backfill if you need to.


I highly doubt we hire Dan. Like I said we could realistically get Todd Monken after the playoffs and announce him before or we could get Chris Hatcher right now. We have options but it's certainly limited. I think that's what Keenum will do but I could be wrong. I do think hiring Arnett is very knee jerk at this point.

Exactly. If this was just a we fired this coach situation, this would be much easier. Knee jerk to hire Arnett, maybe. But that doesn't mean it is not the correct path for us at this moment, which I think it is.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Very few coaches that we could have hired previously would hesitate to take it now. The transfer portal is a game changer and anyone we hire can immediately flip a roster very quickly. Also, zero chance we lose 40 guys no matter what we do. That just isn?t going to happen. There are a lot of people who would love to take over an 8 win team with a lot returning and a favorable schedule next year.

UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES. I figured I would lead it with it this time. This is not a normal coaching search. You are replacing a sitting P5 HC who was quite literally with his team 96 hours ago. This is not replacing a guy who got fired or a coach who is resigning or retiring. This has only happened 3 or 4 other times in the history of the sport. This is not on page 76 of the coaching handbook. With the timing of this and the circumstances surrounding it there just will not be much interest in this job from anyone other than extremely high risk candidates. Only a couple of P5 HCs that we would want will have legit interest in the job and only a handful of G5 HCs will and we cannot hire an outsider who has never been a HC to try and steer this ship after what has happened. And you are right the transfer portal is a game changer, but it is not a game changer in February. Only a handful of guys jump into the portal after spring practice. Again I am not making the hire. No one on this board is so our opinions are just that, OPINIONS.

[Dawgface]

UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES. I figured I would lead it with it this time. This is not a normal coaching search. You are replacing a sitting P5 HC who was quite literally with his team 96 hours ago. This is not replacing a guy who got fired or a coach who is resigning or retiring. This has only happened 3 or 4 other times in the history of the sport. This is not on page 76 of the coaching handbook. With the timing of this and the circumstances surrounding it there just will not be much interest in this job from anyone other than extremely high risk candidates. Only a couple of P5 HCs that we would want will have legit interest in the job and only a handful of G5 HCs will and we cannot hire some guy who has never been a HC to try and steer this ship after what has happened. And you are right the transfer portal is a game changer, but it is not a game changer in February. Only a handful of guys jump into the portal after spring practice. Again I am not making the hire. No one on this board is so our opinions are just that, OPINIONS.

That's the truth. I doubt Keenum is looking at message boards seeking directions on how to proceed.

[was21]

Clay Helton?

[The Federalist Engineer]

https://soonersports.com/staff-directory/jeff-lebby/248

https://d4sjo25z9q3iq.cloudfront.net/images/2022/12/13/MikeLeach_1999_Whiteboard_thumb_IYOa8.JPG

Scroll past who is the current Oklahoma Offensive Coordinator - there is a nice tribute video to Mike Leach.

Leach was the OC at OU in 1999. He actually recruited Josh Heupel to be his QB. Heupel was a JC QB from a college nobody knows about, won a NC and nearly a Heisman at OU, almost a Rudy level story.

[DownwardDawg]

That's the truth. I doubt Keenum is looking at message boards seeking directions on how to proceed.

That part is true. Not the rest of it. There will be a long list of people that would take the State job right now. SEC, just won 8 games, MILLIONS per year, etc....
Coaches have giant egos. They all think they can win more than the guy before them. If not, you don't want them.

[HoopsDawg]

UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES. I figured I would lead it with it this time. This is not a normal coaching search. You are replacing a sitting P5 HC who was quite literally with his team 96 hours ago. This is not replacing a guy who got fired or a coach who is resigning or retiring. This has only happened 3 or 4 other times in the history of the sport. This is not on page 76 of the coaching handbook. With the timing of this and the circumstances surrounding it there just will not be much interest in this job from anyone other than extremely high risk candidates. Only a couple of P5 HCs that we would want will have legit interest in the job and only a handful of G5 HCs will and we cannot hire an outsider who has never been a HC to try and steer this ship after what has happened. And you are right the transfer portal is a game changer, but it is not a game changer in February. Only a handful of guys jump into the portal after spring practice. Again I am not making the hire. No one on this board is so our opinions are just that, OPINIONS.

I don't follow your logic at all. I think it's pretty flawed.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Also guys I will say I am very proud of us for not having mentioned Urban or Marcus Wood. Yes the old EMCC OC Marcus Wood. They each have two page threads over at GP. I really wish I was making that up.

[DownwardDawg]

Also guys I will say I am very proud of us for not having mentioned Urban or Marcus Wood. Yes the old EMCC OC Marcus Wood. They each have two page threads over at GP. I really wish I was making that up.

Crazy

[StarkVegasSteve]

I don't follow your logic at all. I think it's pretty flawed.

Sorry I will make it more straightforward. There are only a handful of coaches that we would be interested in that would even entertain the thought of taking over a program who’s HC just died. There is also the small tidbit that at the earliest, if the hire is not Arnett, we will be making the hire the second week of January and in the portal era you need a new hire the second week of December at the latest to give the new staff a fighting chance.

Realistically you are looking at an extremely small list of people:

Todd Monken-maybe
Will Hall- I do not think he is ready
Dan- 50/50 on whether he is interested or we would be interested.

There are probably 3 or 4 more but pulling a sitting HC is just going to be almost impossible with the timing of all of this.

[mo7888]

To add to that: Every major sports publication has run tributes to the previous HC for two days now.... most coaches don't want to follow that...they'd rather be the guy after the guy in that scenario..

[HoopsDawg]

Sorry I will make it more straightforward. There are only a handful of coaches that we would be interested in that would even entertain the thought of taking over a program who’s HC just died. There is also the small tidbit that at the earliest, if the hire is not Arnett, we will be making the hire the second week of January and in the portal era you need a new hire the second week of December at the latest to give the new staff a fighting chance.

Realistically you are looking at an extremely small list of people:

Todd Monken-maybe
Will Hall- I do not think he is ready
Dan- 50/50 on whether he is interested or we would be interested.

There are probably 3 or 4 more but pulling a sitting HC is just going to be almost impossible with the timing of all of this.

You don't think someone like Jeff Traylor would jump at this job if offered?

[CaptainObvious]

So every Fortune 500 Company looking for a CEO should just not reach out to anyone who may or may not even take an interview?

To heck with that thinking! I?d make 10 sitting company CEOs or COOs turn me down before I settled for the easy fix of hiring the 28 year old guy who started in the Mailroom and reached a Vice President of Marketing Strategies.

[WinningIsRelentless]

I was wondering about this last night... If Leach was seriously considering stepping down.. he would have had some suggestions I'm sure about keeping the program going.

Apparently it was very iffy if he was going to be able to finish the year around Auburn. We had a plan if things went south then just like we were quick to respond Sunday.

Do you not find it interesting Arnett was named interim over Hughes who has the actual title Associate Head Coach?

[StarkVegasSteve]

You don't think someone like Jeff Traylor would jump at this job if offered?

No. Jeff Traylor is a Texas High School coaching legend of the last decade and guys like are hard to ever pry away from a Texas school even in the best of times, which this is not. Those guys are wired differently and for a lot of them their dream is to lead a Texas FBS program. I am not saying it is impossible and from a recruiting standpoint he would get you into every high school in the state of Texas. I just do not see it happening. He also runs an RPO based spread so we would have to hope to find a mobile QB or roll with Parson.

[basedog]

Apparently it was very iffy if he was going to be able to finish the year around Auburn. We had a plan if things went south then just like we were quick to respond Sunday.

Do you not find it interesting Arnett was named interim over Hughes who has the actual title Associate Head Coach?

I also wonder IF the Pirate was close to stepping down, he obviously loved and trusted Arnett, hell he sent him to represent us in Tampa. That was strange I thought, makes me wonder if he was trying to make it to Tampa and call Key West his next step or move.

[DownwardDawg]

Sorry I will make it more straightforward. There are only a handful of coaches that we would be interested in that would even entertain the thought of taking over a program who’s HC just died. There is also the small tidbit that at the earliest, if the hire is not Arnett, we will be making the hire the second week of January and in the portal era you need a new hire the second week of December at the latest to give the new staff a fighting chance.

Realistically you are looking at an extremely small list of people:

Todd Monken-maybe
Will Hall- I do not think he is ready
Dan- 50/50 on whether he is interested or we would be interested.

There are probably 3 or 4 more but pulling a sitting HC is just going to be almost impossible with the timing of all of this.

There is a LONG LIST of coaches that would jump all over this job.

[Jarius]

UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES. I figured I would lead it with it this time. This is not a normal coaching search. You are replacing a sitting P5 HC who was quite literally with his team 96 hours ago. This is not replacing a guy who got fired or a coach who is resigning or retiring. This has only happened 3 or 4 other times in the history of the sport. This is not on page 76 of the coaching handbook. With the timing of this and the circumstances surrounding it there just will not be much interest in this job from anyone other than extremely high risk candidates. Only a couple of P5 HCs that we would want will have legit interest in the job and only a handful of G5 HCs will and we cannot hire an outsider who has never been a HC to try and steer this ship after what has happened. And you are right the transfer portal is a game changer, but it is not a game changer in February. Only a handful of guys jump into the portal after spring practice. Again I am not making the hire. No one on this board is so our opinions are just that, OPINIONS.


I’m sorry. Not trying to be combative but this simply is not true in any way. We can hire who we would normally hire. None of this is going to change who would take the job. The season is a full year away. We aren’t trying to fill the job 2 months before the season. This is a nonissue in the hiring process. It really sucks for us and we are all grieving, but this ain’t going to stop someone from taking an SEC football job and tripling their salary in most cases. It just isn’t.

[CaptainObvious]

The media talked way more about Dan Mullen after he went to Florida then they did when he was at State. They talked way more about Clay Helton at SC that at Georgia Southern. They talked more about Kiffin as OC at Bama than as HC at FIU. They talked more about Malzhan at Auburn than at UCF. And frankly they talked more about Mike Leach at MSU than at WSU.

If we can pull a moderately known to well known name, it just gets us more publicity and more eyeballs from transfers and recruits.

We have to TRY and get a recognized coach to come to State! It is the real estate we live in with Kiffin at Oxford, Saban at Bama, Fisher at A&M, Heupel at Tennessee and Kelly at LSU.

[Jarius]

No. Jeff Traylor is a Texas High School coaching legend of the last decade and guys like are hard to ever pry away from a Texas school even in the best of times, which this is not. Those guys are wired differently and for a lot of them their dream is to lead a Texas FBS program. I am not saying it is impossible and from a recruiting standpoint he would get you into every high school in the state of Texas. I just do not see it happening. He also runs an RPO based spread so we would have to hope to find a mobile QB or roll with Parson.

Jeff Traylor would crawl to Starkville to be our head coach. I love you man but come on.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I’m sorry. Not trying to be combs but this simply is not true in any way. We can hire who we would normally hire. None of this is going to change who would take the job.

Hey man I respect your opinion. I may not agree, but I do respect it. We need more of that every day but especially during these times. I enjoy each and every one of you and the community we have to come here and celebrate and occasionally complain about our school.

[Johnson85]

Apparently it was very iffy if he was going to be able to finish the year around Auburn. We had a plan if things went south then just like we were quick to respond Sunday.

Do you not find it interesting Arnett was named interim over Hughes who has the actual title Associate Head Coach?

Not really. Seems like associate head coach is usually associated with lead/top recruiter now.

[Coach34]

We can pay $5MM per- there are plenty of people interested in our job. Coaches will take the job and then tell the media they are coming to StarkVegas to honor Leach's legacy and keep the program moving forward.

We make a hire in mid-January and roll on. It is what it is

[Cowbell]

That's the truth. I doubt Keenum is looking at message boards seeking directions on how to proceed.

Bert is staring

[was21]

To add to that: Every major sports publication has run tributes to the previous HC for two days now.... most coaches don't want to follow that...they'd rather be the guy after the guy in that scenario..

There has certainly been a lot of that. OTOH the publicity has been more about his personality and such, not so much his tenure at State specifically.

[Todd4State]

No. Jeff Traylor is a Texas High School coaching legend of the last decade and guys like are hard to ever pry away from a Texas school even in the best of times, which this is not. Those guys are wired differently and for a lot of them their dream is to lead a Texas FBS program. I am not saying it is impossible and from a recruiting standpoint he would get you into every high school in the state of Texas. I just do not see it happening. He also runs an RPO based spread so we would have to hope to find a mobile QB or roll with Parson.

Also has a huge buyout apparently.

[BeardoMSU]

Bert is staring

Given the circumstances, Bert needs to stfu on this one.

[Todd4State]

We can pay $5MM per- there are plenty of people interested in our job. Coaches will take the job and then tell the media they are coming to StarkVegas to honor Leach's legacy and keep the program moving forward.

We make a hire in mid-January and roll on. It is what it is

I know a lot of our fans disagree but I agree that this is the best way for us to go.

I have a feeling Keenum doesn't really know what to do completely either.

And I do understand that the players need stability but the reality is that position coaches leave every offseason no matter what. That's almost a certainty every year.

[MetEdDawg]

Arnett the new head coach according to Thamel. 4 year contract

[Commercecomet24]

Arnett the new head coach according to Thamel. 4 year contract

Being confirmed by Robbie Faulk and Ross Dellenger

[basedog]

I know a lot of our fans disagree but I agree that this is the best way for us to go.

I have a feeling Keenum doesn't really know what to do completely either.

And I do understand that the players need stability but the reality is that position coaches leave every offseason no matter what. That's almost a certainty every year.

Ur feeling Keenum may not what to do is wrong.

[StarkVegasSteve]

It was the best option we had available.

[Goldendawg]

Watching Finebaum for 1st time in years. Pete Thamel just wrote we will soon announce Zach Arnett has HC.

[Catfish]

Let's all bet behind him! Hail State!!!!

[civildawg]

I don?t mind it honestly. Give him 2 years and if it works, it works, if it doesn?t, you can move on