I?m gonna pause the Leach Hate for a little bit

[PikeDawg15]

I?ve watched some clips from the previous games.

Will is not playing good.

Will is actually playing awful currently and the receivers are there but he?s not seeing them because he?s terrified of any pressure.

He was better in 2021.

What happened

[CaptainObvious]

I?ve watched some clips from the previous games.

Will is not playing good.

Will is actually playing awful currently and the receivers are there but he?s not seeing them because he?s terrified of any pressure.

He was better in 2021.

What happened

He got hit hard a couple of times and realized his future is in something other than football and wants to have a few functioning brain cells after football.

[Westdawg]

He got hit hard a couple of times and realized his future is in something other than football and wants to have a few functioning brain cells after football.

If that?s the case, then it?s time to hang it up

[dawgday166]

Yea ... I've known this for a while now. But everybody wants to blame Leach's offensive system. Now Leach can be blamed for not having another QB or for the QB's performance, and also for how this offense not performing, but it's not his system that is the problem.

I also think this may be why the receivers' attitudes may not be that good too. Take Heath maybe or just some of the others. If folks are constantly open downfield somewhere and they never get the ball, they probably wanna say WTF after a while.

I also think it may not set well that Leach defends Will so much. I'm scratching my head on some of the dynamics around all of that myself. Something seems very off to me ... but I have no idea or even inkling of what it might be.

[DeltaChicagoDog]

Something seems very off to me ... but I have no idea or even inkling of what it might be.

Nicky Fitz mentioned one possibility in their latest podcast episode - The Has Been & the Never Was.

[starkvegasdawg]

I?ve watched some clips from the previous games.

Will is not playing good.

Will is actually playing awful currently and the receivers are there but he?s not seeing them because he?s terrified of any pressure.

He was better in 2021.

What happened

Talking to another guy (Mjoelner on this Board) who is in scoreboard and says numerous times he has seen our receivers running open and for whatever reason he checks down to the safety valve.

[Bothrops]

I'm not sure of he can't see the field very well, or is afraid to throw over the middle. He's had a high number of passes batted down too.

[Todd4State]

Nicky Fitz mentioned one possibility in their latest podcast episode - The Has Been & the Never Was.

If there is one QB that knew how to read a defense and throw well it was Nick Fitzgerald.**

[Todd4State]

I'm not sure of he can't see the field very well, or is afraid to throw over the middle. He's had a high number of passes batted down too.

I think he's afraid. His completion percentage on passes over 20 yards is actually pretty good if I remember correctly. Which makes all of this more unusual.

I will say this:

I think that he got used to people rushing three and dropping 8 because everyone in the SEC thought that was how you stop Leach. Well, Will and MSU started to absolutely shred the rush three drop 8.

And then teams started to rush four and try some stunts and things like that. Will hasn't quite gotten to where he has adjusted completely to that. The middle of the field was wide open a LOT against Georgia. We actually started to attack it after awhile and had some success doing so.

Once Will adjusts to people rushing four then we will be fine. It's probably coming- hopefully sooner than later. Right now where he is at is about the same as early last year with the rush three drop 8. But he did eventually adjust.

[DownwardDawg]

Yea ... I've known this for a while now. But everybody wants to blame Leach's offensive system. Now Leach can be blamed for not having another QB or for the QB's performance, and also for how this offense not performing, but it's not his system that is the problem.

I also think this may be why the receivers' attitudes may not be that good too. Take Heath maybe or just some of the others. If folks are constantly open downfield somewhere and they never get the ball, they probably wanna say WTF after a while.

I also think it may not set well that Leach defends Will so much. I'm scratching my head on some of the dynamics around all of that myself. Something seems very off to me ... but I have no idea or even inkling of what it might be.

Leach has had plenty of opportunities to allow the backup to get some in game reps but he won't do it. The QB situation is 100% on Leach.

[RiverCityDawg]

If there is one QB that knew how to read a defense and throw well it was Nick Fitzgerald.**

Nick has actually been very defensive of Rogers.

One thing most of us don't know is whether Will is working through his reads correctly. In the Air Raid system there's a saying that "the reads are sacred". You can't see the entire field at the same time, so it doesn't matter if a guy is open before or after the read gets you there. He is coached to follow the reads. It could very well be that he's following the reads he's being coached and that's why Leach hasn't been too hard on him, whereas he's been pretty vocal about the receivers. This would make the problem more if a scheme issue than a Will issue.

Clearly there's been some adjustments by defenses since the Kentucky game where no one is doing the the rush 3 drop 8 thing anymore. I'm not saying Will is playing well, only that it's very possible that he's following the reads as they're being coached, he's just not being coached well right now based on how defenses have been playing us.

[MaroonFlounder]

There's no way that Mike Leach looks out there at the disfunction of this offense and thinks that he is putting his QB in the position to succeed.

You're either coaching it, or allowing it to happen (his own words)

[TrapGame]

I?ve watched some clips from the previous games.

Will is not playing good.

Will is actually playing awful currently and the receivers are there but he?s not seeing them because he?s terrified of any pressure.

He was better in 2021.

What happened

Leach has his problems but if Will is staring down a wide open receiver and NOT throwing the ball he needs to be benched. There was a thread over on Gene's where a couple of guys that were at AU broke down a dozen plays in the second half where we had receivers wide open. A couple of those were probably easy touchdowns. Will dumped it off to the RB on most of those plays. The others he just chunked he ball out of bounds.

[munk_munk92]

I get the frustration with Leach but he's been as successful as any coach here. I don't like firing coaches too early. Especially when they haven't been that bad. I want to see a different QB first. I think we need to hold off another year or two unless we have a sure fire lined up.

[Goldendawg]

If Will hits a few long passes/TD bombs to wide open WR's against ETSU (FCS level), it might lend more substance to thoughts that O won't work against good SEC D, soft/disappearing WR's in SEC games, etc. If we can't get big plays against them through the air Saturday, there are really some problems. Execute in an encouraging way to hopefully play 4 quarters against OM.

[confucius say]

2020- 21.4 ppg
2021- 29.1
2022- we're at 31.2 and that's fixing to go up. Despite picking up uga and dropping vandy. Dan only had two seasons over 32, dak's final two years.

We're bad at times, but maybe we're a little hard on leach. He's doing this without a playmaker at qb.

[TrapGame]

If Will hits a few long passes/TD bombs to wide open WR's against ETSU (FCS level), it might lend more substance to thoughts that O won't work against good SEC D, soft/disappearing WR's in SEC games, etc. If we can't get big plays against them through the air Saturday, there is really some problems.

Bingo.

[GoDawgz]

Dropped passes surely have something to do with the success of a passing game, right?
I mean, Leach is concerned about future generations having hands......

[Really Clark?]

2020- 21.4 ppg
2021- 29.1
2022- we're at 31.2 and that's fixing to go up. Despite picking up uga and dropping vandy. Dan only had two seasons over 32, dak's final two years.

We're bad at times, but maybe we're a little hard on leach. He's doing this without a playmaker at qb.

In conference only games we are at 25.6. Dan's last 4 years, including 2016 was higher than that. 2014 we actually avg 33.8 in conference games. But 2016 the offense was at 29.3 (Peter Sirmon sucked so si bad) Last year we were 28.5, which was a pretty good year in conference games. We fired Moorehead after his season of 23.3 (although we know that had more to do with culture and problems in the locker room)

ETA. When looking at all games we have to consider that Leach leaves starters in the entire game. Dan pulled starters a whole lot more in blowout wins. That really skews the offensive numbers.

[CoachT14]

In conference only games we are at 25.6. Dan's last 4 years, including 2016 was higher than that. 2014 we actually avg 33.8 in conference games. But 2016 the offense was at 29.3 (Peter Sirmon sucked so si bad) Last year we were 28.5, which was a pretty good year in conference games. We fired Moorehead after his season of 23.3 (although we know that had more to do with culture and problems in the locker room)

In conference we are actually only averaging about 20.5. The other points are coming from the defense ironically.

[Really Clark?]

In conference we are actually only averaging about 20.5. The other points are coming from the defense ironically.

I knew it was lower but the site I gave from my phone app uses total points for scoring. Its still a comparison because it's the same for all seasons.

[vindastra]

Nicky Fitz mentioned one possibility in their latest podcast episode - The Has Been & the Never Was.

Gist please?

[was21]

Maybe leech wants to be fired, collect his money and head to the beach.

[Turfdawg67]

Leach has his problems but if Will is staring down a wide open receiver and NOT throwing the ball he needs to be benched. There was a thread over on Gene's where a couple of guys that were at AU broke down a dozen plays in the second half where we had receivers wide open. A couple of those were probably easy touchdowns. Will dumped it off to the RB on most of those plays. The others he just chunked he ball out of bounds.

And you know Leach and other coaches see this in the film room too. Let Sawyer or whomever start next game and let Will come off the bench... maybe that'll restart some fire?!?

[Todd4State]

Nick has actually been very defensive of Rogers.

One thing most of us don't know is whether Will is working through his reads correctly. In the Air Raid system there's a saying that "the reads are sacred". You can't see the entire field at the same time, so it doesn't matter if a guy is open before or after the read gets you there. He is coached to follow the reads. It could very well be that he's following the reads he's being coached and that's why Leach hasn't been too hard on him, whereas he's been pretty vocal about the receivers. This would make the problem more if a scheme issue than a Will issue.

Clearly there's been some adjustments by defenses since the Kentucky game where no one is doing the the rush 3 drop 8 thing anymore. I'm not saying Will is playing well, only that it's very possible that he's following the reads as they're being coached, he's just not being coached well right now based on how defenses have been playing us.

I can't imagine that the offense is designed to immediately check it down to a running back very often. I don't think the Air Raid is much different than most other offenses as far as reads go. Especially with it being based off of the BYU offense under LaVell Edwards.

People are typically rushing four most of the time and using stunts and things like that. Georgia was leaving the middle of the field wide open. Once Will started to hit that some things improved.

[Todd4State]

In conference only games we are at 25.6. Dan's last 4 years, including 2016 was higher than that. 2014 we actually avg 33.8 in conference games. But 2016 the offense was at 29.3 (Peter Sirmon sucked so si bad) Last year we were 28.5, which was a pretty good year in conference games. We fired Moorehead after his season of 23.3 (although we know that had more to do with culture and problems in the locker room)

ETA. When looking at all games we have to consider that Leach leaves starters in the entire game. Dan pulled starters a whole lot more in blowout wins. That really skews the offensive numbers.

Some of that is because of our schedule. We have played the top four defenses in the SEC in PPG in Georgia, LSU, Kentucky, and Alabama and three of those were on the road. The other three games we've played we've scored 39+ in SEC play.

And even then we scored more on Georgia than their average even taking the punt return out, we scored a touchdown in Alabama for the first time in years while out gaining them, and we had leads on both LSU and Kentucky.

As far as "really good" teams we need to improve on offense- don't get me wrong. But the defense also needs to improve some as well. We allowed 30+ to Georgia, LSU, and Alabama, and then 27 to Kentucky.

If we can average 24 PPG on offense and 24 PPG allowed on defense as a baseline goal against the top teams in the SEC then we will take a big step. That's only one more touchdown and one more stop for some of those games.

[confucius say]

In conference only games we are at 25.6. Dan's last 4 years, including 2016 was higher than that. 2014 we actually avg 33.8 in conference games. But 2016 the offense was at 29.3 (Peter Sirmon sucked so si bad) Last year we were 28.5, which was a pretty good year in conference games. We fired Moorehead after his season of 23.3 (although we know that had more to do with culture and problems in the locker room)

ETA. When looking at all games we have to consider that Leach leaves starters in the entire game. Dan pulled starters a whole lot more in blowout wins. That really skews the offensive numbers.

We also have the toughest league-only schedule of any sec team. And of any team in college football actually.

[RiverCityDawg]

I can't imagine that the offense is designed to immediately check it down to a running back very often. I don't think the Air Raid is much different than most other offenses as far as reads go. Especially with it being based off of the BYU offense under LaVell Edwards.

People are typically rushing four most of the time and using stunts and things like that. Georgia was leaving the middle of the field wide open. Once Will started to hit that some things improved.

The running back is usually the 3rd or 4th read. Sometimes he will drop it off to them right away, which is probably based on what he sees pre-snap. Usually though he's throwing it to the RB after he looks downfield and doesn't like what he sees or pressure is coming and he has to get rid of it.

[WhiskeyPirate]

We also have the toughest league-only schedule of any sec team. And of any team in college football actually.

Exactly

Not many teams in the nation are doing any better against top four sec defenses. It’s pretty easy to pick at scabs when you play Georgia , Alabama and LSU on the road. Outside of about five teams, the results wouldn’t be any better.

[Coach34]

We also have the toughest league-only schedule of any sec team. And of any team in college football actually.

Stop repeating this lie. We are 11th

http://powerrankingsguru.com/college-football/strength-of-schedule.php

[WhiskeyPirate]

Football outsiders ranks our SOS as #4 in the country based on P5 opponents only with roster weights for opposing talent rating.

This is the most accurate, and we should be higher after playing ole miss, probably back up to #2 in the country.

[Jarius]

2020- 21.4 ppg
2021- 29.1
2022- we're at 31.2 and that's fixing to go up. Despite picking up uga and dropping vandy. Dan only had two seasons over 32, dak's final two years.

We're bad at times, but maybe we're a little hard on leach. He's doing this without a playmaker at qb.

We aren't. He went from 28.5 ppg in 21 to 25.5 ppg this year in conference play. Racking up a bunch of yards on Eastern Tennessee state doesn't prove anything about how this offense operates within the SEC. Yea the schedule is harder. Our talent got a year older as well. Zero improvement and a lot of regression at the quarterback position.

[Jarius]

Exactly

Not many teams in the nation are doing any better against top four sec defenses. It’s pretty easy to pick at scabs when you play Georgia , Alabama and LSU on the road. Outside of about five teams, the results wouldn’t be any better.

Unfortunately for Mike Leach, he signed up to coach at a program that plays a lot of really good defenses every single year. This is the SEC West. There are no easy years unless you are OM and get to play Kentucky and Vandy along with 4 creampuffs in the non con. Literally everyone else in the West has a gauntlet.

[confucius say]

Stop repeating this lie. We are 11th

http://powerrankingsguru.com/college-football/strength-of-schedule.php

I clearly said LEAGUE-ONLY schedule. We have the toughest league only schedule of any sec team and really of any team in college football. Auburn is close, but they drew uga and Mizzou (at home) whereas we got uga and KY (on the road). LSU is the only other team with an argument, and they got TN and Fla.

[confucius say]

We aren't. He went from 28.5 ppg in 21 to 25.5 ppg this year in conference play. Racking up a bunch of yards on Eastern Tennessee state doesn't prove anything about how this offense operates within the SEC. Yea the schedule is harder. Our talent got a year older as well. Zero improvement and a lot of regression at the quarterback position.

Where will our ppg within the sec rank? 6th?

ETA: looks like we will finish at best 6th and at worst 8th. With the hardest league schedule.
Uga, Bama, KY, and LSU are the top 4 defenses and we are the only team to play all 4.

I agree with you Will has not improved. I like him but he is a stop gap guy. We need a playmaker at qb

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Stop repeating this lie. We are 11th

http://powerrankingsguru.com/college-football/strength-of-schedule.php

Oh come on, you KNOW that list is a joke. You're really telling me West Virginia is the toughest schedule in the country? They have played 1 team in the top 25. Literally, one top 25 team. You know that's not even comparable to what we've played.

But you still linked to a site that claims 8 of the 10 hardest schedules are in the Big-12 and Pac-12? You know those schedules can't hold a candle to what South Carolina, State, or LSU have played. But you still link that joke of a list because it supports your narrative.

But lets play your game. That site says we've got the 2nd hardest schedule in the SEC after LSU. So yes, the point Confucius made is valid, in that our PPG is partially lower than our SEC peers because we've played a harder schedule than them.

[Goldendawg]

Exactly

Not many teams in the nation are doing any better against top four sec defenses. It’s pretty easy to pick at scabs when you play Georgia , Alabama and LSU on the road. Outside of about five teams, the results wouldn’t be any better.

We played GA at home. On the way out, I was talking to some GA fans. One said, y'all carved us up through the air." I said that it was only 200 yards. He said "nobody does that to us". I wish our O would show up for more than 2 or so quarters against all our opponents. Has been our weakness all year. Hail State!

[WhiskeyPirate]

Oh come on, you KNOW that list is a joke. You're really telling me West Virginia is the toughest schedule in the country? They have played 1 team in the top 25. Literally, one top 25 team. You know that's not even comparable to what we've played.

But you still linked to a site that claims 8 of the 10 hardest schedules are in the Big-12 and Pac-12? You know those schedules can't hold a candle to what South Carolina, State, or LSU have played. But you still link that joke of a list because it supports your narrative.

But lets play your game. That site says we've got the 2nd hardest schedule in the SEC after LSU. So yes, the point Confucius made is valid, in that our PPG is partially lower than our SEC peers because we've played a harder schedule than them.


100% correct

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

What happened

Crazy how everyone just glosses over that he lost one of the top 5 offensive lineman, that blocked his blind side, to ever come through MSU and a WR that set records in his first year. Will has plenty of flaws but he also is playing behind an offensive line who's made to run block.

[vindastra]

Crazy how everyone just glosses over that he lost one of the top 5 offensive lineman, that blocked his blind side, to ever come through MSU and a WR that set records in his first year. Will has plenty of flaws but he also is playing behind an offensive line who's made to run block.

Gurus...can someone explain why our OL is made to run block when we don't run the ball? Players or Coaching?

[Coach34]

Football outsiders ranks our SOS as #4 in the country based on P5 opponents only with roster weights for opposing talent rating.

ok- this one has us 9th

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/schedule-strength-by-other

Bottom line- we play in the SEC and will always have a top 20 toughest schedule

[CoachT14]

Crazy how everyone just glosses over that he lost one of the top 5 offensive lineman, that blocked his blind side, to ever come through MSU and a WR that set records in his first year. Will has plenty of flaws but he also is playing behind an offensive line who's made to run block.

Our OL is better than last year as a whole. Less sacks and less pressure on the QB. Keep toting that water.

[Coach34]

Our OL is better than last year as a whole. Less sacks and less pressure on the QB. Keep toting that water.

We allowed 34 sacks last year

We are at 20 this year with 3 games left

[CoachT14]

We allowed 34 sacks last year

We are at 20 this year with 3 games left

I doubt we give up 14 sacks in the next 3 games. So I?m not sure if you were just giving stats or what. Or just backing up what I said.

[Pancho]

he is helping you out