Been thinking about this Leach situation today...

[CadaverDawg]

Since we have several like me that are pretty certain this Air Bone isn't going to work in the SEC, yet many of you think we need to "give it time" (eye roll), I think I may have a proposal....

Would everyone at least agree that he needs to bring in one of his disciples with a younger and more modern approach as an OC that can create some variations to mix in with Leach's air raid? Since we are unlikely to fire him after 7 wins, and he's unlikely to retire when he can mope around here and make $5 million a year, can we at least force him to hire someone to advance his offense out of the 90's? Maybe even Spurrier Jr could be given the reigns of the offense, something, anything to provide a spark, a variation, an adjustment. We should all agree this offense needs a Red Bull, so how can we do it to make both sides happy?

I'm all for canning his ass, but I know it ain't happening because we're little ol State that thinks we can't do no better than 7 wins....so there has to be a solution that isn't just sitting here watching us continue to do nothing against teams above .500 as our crowds dwindle, recruiting tanks, and NIL gains nothing.

Thoughts?

[Goldendawg]

As for Spurrier Jr., unless Leach is holding him back, our WR room leaves a lot to be desired and Leach does not seem happy with it at all. JMO.

[DownwardDawg]

Big dual threat QB.

[Tater]

Tell me what's the difference between 2020 LSU and 2022 Second half LSU; 2020 Georgia and 2022 Georgia.

We had a QB in 2020 games who would throw the deep ball even if it was wobbly.

We have a QB now who refuses to do so even when it's so clearly there presnap.

Will was making the same reads that I was from my aerial view of the field in 5.5 of the first 6 games. Been non existent since.

Is he hurt and we don't know it? Either way... you have to take shots. Attack them where they are weak is the whole philosophy. Hard to believe teams scheming to stop our heavy dosage of 10 yards and under plays aren't weaker over the top and to the outside.

It's indefensible. Will needs to either grow a pair, grow a cannon arm, or go. It's up to Leach whether he wants to hitch his wagon along with him. He's not running the full offense.

[Todd4State]

Tell me what's the difference between 2020 LSU and 2022 Second half LSU; 2020 Georgia and 2022 Georgia.

We had a QB in 2020 games who would throw the deep ball even if it was wobbly.

We have a QB now who refuses to do so even when it's so clearly there presnap.

Will was making the same reads that I was from my aerial view of the field in 5.5 of the first 6 games. Been non existent since.

Is he hurt and we don't know it? Either way... you have to take shots. Attack them where they are weak is the whole philosophy. Hard to believe teams scheming to stop our heavy dosage of 10 yards and under plays aren't weaker over the top and to the outside.

It's indefensible. Will needs to either grow a pair, grow a cannon arm, or go. It's up to Leach whether he wants to hitch his wagon along with him. He's not running the full offense.


Will's lack of progress is very disappointing. He can't process what's going on quickly enough. I think he's also one of those people who overthinks things sometimes. He actually reminds me of Matt Wyatt. Matt was MUCH better in a no huddle hurry up situation where he just had to run the play and get the ball out. The less he had to think the better he was.

Will is part of the reason why I give Leach a longer leash than others. If we can cycle him out and get Sawyer or Locke up to speed then I think we're going to really see the offense make a big jump.

As long as Will is here he's going to need Dillion Johnson to be his safety net.

[parabrave]

At a minimum he needs to hire a QB coach who can work not only with WR but also the backups.

[bulldawg28]

New Qb and OC

[basedog]

I seriously doubt Leach will hire someone to help him with his offense.

[was21]

Doubt if he would hand the offensive reins over to another coach, so that's that probably.

[Really Clark?]

If you are to the point that you believe a HC like Leach needs to hire an OC...then you are better off asking for a HC change instead. Not calling for his firing but he is not turning over his offense to be revamped and someone else to call plays.

[Matt3467]

If all you did was look at stats then Rogers seems like a great QB which is why all we hear from announcers and talking heads is how accurate and great at decision making Rogers is. They apparently don't want game film. To touch on what Tater mentioned earlier it is something to note that watching Costello and Rogers is like watching two different offenses (lets ignore the fact that Costello was awful too for a second). Costello made you think we were always a threat anywhere on the field while watching Will we already know nine times out of ten where the ball is going to go. I'd like to see another QB be given the reins before I close the book on Leach.

Btw here's something that gave me a chuckle while looking up Will's draft stock:

Per https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Will-Rogers-QB-MississippiState "Athletic quarterback who is a threat to leave the pocket and gain positive yardage at any time. Possesses very good vision balance, elusiveness and deceptive speed and power as a runner."

Thedraftnetwork.com praises Rogers ability to extend plays with his legs.

si.com gives him a 2nd round grade and says, "He can scramble for yards if the play breaks down,"

[TrapGame]

If I was Keenum I'd tell Leach in the year end evaluation that '23 is THE year to make it work. Get a good portal QB that is mobile, add a serious ground support element to the air raid and beating OM next year is a MUST or we will move on. If he squawks at any of that I'd tell him he seriously needs to consider retirement b/c this is what HAS to happen for him to be retained after '23.

[Quaoarsking]

You can't put a requirement on any single game a year in advance. You're telling me that if we go 10-2 next year but 1 of the 2 is Ole Miss, you'd fire him?

Now you can tell him the potential is out there and make that call in mid-November once we know how good we and Ole Miss are, but even then the full body of work should determine whether he is retained, not 1 game.

[TrapGame]

You can't put a requirement on any single game a year in advance. You're telling me that if we go 10-2 next year but 1 of the 2 is Ole Miss, you'd fire him?

Now you can tell him the potential is out there and make that call in mid-November once we know how good we and Ole Miss are, but even then the full body of work should determine whether he is retained, not 1 game.

Bruh, we ain't going 10-2 next year, especially if Will is still QB1. And yes, if we lose three in a row to OM, you better believe beating them in '23 is a MUST.

Actually, I'm betting Leach retires first.

[Quaoarsking]

Bruh, we ain't going 10-2 next year, especially if Will is still QB1. And yes, if we lose three in a row to OM, you better believe beating them in '23 is a MUST.

Actually, I'm betting Leach retires first.

We're talking about HYPOTHETICAL situations. If we are 10-2 with a loss to Ole Miss, it would be the stupidest firing in NCAA history to get rid of Leach.

[Saltydog]

Since we have several like me that are pretty certain this Air Bone isn't going to work in the SEC, yet many of you think we need to "give it time" (eye roll), I think I may have a proposal....

Would everyone at least agree that he needs to bring in one of his disciples with a younger and more modern approach as an OC that can create some variations to mix in with Leach's air raid? Since we are unlikely to fire him after 7 wins, and he's unlikely to retire when he can mope around here and make $5 million a year, can we at least force him to hire someone to advance his offense out of the 90's? Maybe even Spurrier Jr could be given the reigns of the offense, something, anything to provide a spark, a variation, an adjustment. We should all agree this offense needs a Red Bull, so how can we do it to make both sides happy?

I'm all for canning his ass, but I know it ain't happening because we're little ol State that thinks we can't do no better than 7 wins....so there has to be a solution that isn't just sitting here watching us continue to do nothing against teams above .500 as our crowds dwindle, recruiting tanks, and NIL gains nothing.

Thoughts?

I don't think it would even take that much Cadaver. It could be argued that you really don't need changes other than a QB who is given the discretion to run and who has the ability to run, just a little bit. Will doesn't have that and never will. Get someone who can and this offense looks much different.

[gtowndawg]

Joe Morehead averaged 400.2 yards in 2019 (got fired) - Leach is averaging 396.4 in his 3rd year with the most returning players in the SEC. No matter what, that's an eye opening stat that must be carefully considered if we lose to Ole Miss (again).

[TrapGame]

We're talking about HYPOTHETICAL situations. If we are 10-2 with a loss to Ole Miss, it would be the stupidest firing in NCAA history to get rid of Leach.

We ain't going 10-2 next year. There's nothing hypothetical about it. We got a QB that sucks his nads up his ass in big games.

[Quaoarsking]

Joe Morehead averaged 400.2 yards in 2019 (got fired) - Leach is averaging 396.4 in his 3rd year with the most returning players in the SEC. No matter what, that's an eye opening stat that must be carefully considered if we lose to Ole Miss (again).

Joe Moorhead got fired due to off the field issues, including but not limited to a starting LB breaking the facr of the starting QB.

Ultimately that was lucky for us, because we would have been much worse in 2020-21 had he kept his job, but you just can't compare his on-field results as "what gets you fired at MSU."

[Quaoarsking]

We ain't going 10-2 next year. There's nothing hypothetical about it. We got a QB that sucks his nads up his ass in big games.

This isn't about how likely any scenario is, it is what happens in that scenario. Are you too scared to admit that there is a scenario in which Leach could lose the Egg Bowl in 2023 and be retained in 2024 even in your eyes?

[TrapGame]

This isn't about how likely any scenario is, it is what happens in that scenario. Are you too scared to admit that there is a scenario in which Leach could lose the Egg Bowl in 2023 and be retained in 2024 even in your eyes?

Shit, if he loses the Egg this year he might not be retained. That is a very real possibility and not hypothetical at all.

And let me say again. WE AIN'T WINNING TEN GAMES NEXT SEASON. We do not have the players, especially QB, or coach to pull off ten wins. We just don't.

[dawgday166]

As an AD or University President or whatever, you don't hire a football coach, especially one with Leach's track record, and start telling him how to coach or what assistants he needs to add or subtract. You don't tell him who to play or not play. All of that remains to sole responsibility of message board posters who are all experts and brilliant football analysts/coaches in their own right.. **

As an AD, that job/position is to try to provide the resources and support he needs to be successful. Now if things appear bad, then the guy in the AD position can inquire or make suggestions maybe. And the AD certainly can set timetables for righting the ship, if it seems to be floundering. And if I'm AD, I'm certainly conveying to Leach the pressure coming from The President, Big Boosters, etc. ... but most importantly the pressure coming from the big dog message board posters **

I can just see someone going to Saban and telling him how to run his program. They might make suggestions, but Saban will make the decisions. Kirby will too. And so will Leach. Honestly, any coach worth his salt will. They're gonna sink or swim with their own decisions. Doesn't mean conversations around how to get things on track won't happen, but someone like Leach ain't gonna change too much about how he manages and/or organizes all of his personnel ... coaches, players, or whatnot. He will change things only if he thinks ideas or suggestions are better options and worth trying, regardless of where the ideas come from.

Conversations like this are pretty much pointless IMO. If I hire a very successful person in any field, I'm gonna give them the autonomy to do it their way. That's why I hired them to begin with. My job is to help them with what they need to do the job the way they would like to do it. Which is a conversation that should've occurred during the hiring process.

[Quaoarsking]

No one is saying we are going 10-2 next year. I'm just trying to get you to commit either way, yes or no, whether IF we did go 10-2 with one of the 2 losses being Ole Miss, would you still want to fire Leach?

[TrapGame]

As an AD or University President or whatever, you don't hire a football coach, especially one with Leach's track record, and start telling him how to coach or what assistants he needs to add or subtract. You don't tell him who to play or not play. All of that remains to sole responsibility of message board posters who are all experts and brilliant football analysts/coaches in their own right.. **

As an AD, that job/position is to try to provide the resources and support he needs to be successful. Now if things appear bad, then the guy in the AD position can inquire or make suggestions maybe. And the AD certainly can set timetables for righting the ship, if it seems to be floundering. And if I'm AD, I'm certainly conveying to Leach the pressure coming from The President, Big Boosters, etc. ... but most importantly the pressure coming from the big dog message board posters **

I can just see someone going to Saban and telling him how to run his program. They might make suggestions, but Saban will make the decisions. Kirby will too. And so will Leach. Honestly, any coach worth his salt will. They're gonna sink or swim with their own decisions. Doesn't mean conversations around how to get things on track won't happen, but someone like Leach ain't gonna change too much about how he manages and/or organizes all of his personnel ... coaches, players, or whatnot. He will change things only if he thinks ideas or suggestions are better options and worth trying, regardless of where the ideas come from.

Conversations like this are pretty much pointless IMO. If I hire a very successful person in any field, I'm gonna give them the autonomy to do it their way. That's why I hired them to begin with. My job is to help them with what they need to do the job the way they would like to do it. Which is a conversation that should've occurred during the hiring process.

LOL!!!!

Why do you think Mullen couldn't wait to get the **** outta Starkville in '17?

Because Cohen told him to break up the Country Club, recruit better and stop pimping yourself out every November. He told Dan if he's looking around in November, we will too.

[TrapGame]

No one is saying we are going 10-2 next year. I'm just trying to get you to commit either way, yes or no, whether IF we did go 10-2 with one of the 2 losses being Ole Miss, would you still want to fire Leach?

Okay, NO.

How's that?

But if we go 10-2 I'll buy you a steak dinner at Kesler Prime.

[dawgday166]

LOL!!!!

Why do you think Mullen couldn't wait to get the **** outta Starkville in '17?

Because Cohen told him to break up the Country Club, recruit better and stop pimping yourself out every November. He told Dan if he's looking around in November, we will too.

Ok ... and how long before that happened? And are you sure he told him to "break up the country club"? We had just gone 8-4 (which would've been 9-3 if Fitz' ankle don't get broke). And a coach pimping himself out is not on same level as telling him how to run his program IMO.

What I'm really saying is yea, Big Booster and AD might tell a coach how to do things or else, but if that coach has a proven track record, he most likely won't be around long and will do what Mullen did.

ETA: I also think I remember that Mullen had been wanting bigger $$ than we were willing to pay too.

[TrapGame]

Ok ... and how long before that happened? And are you sure he told him to "break up the country club"? We had just gone 8-4 (which would've been 9-3 if Fitz' ankle don't get broke). And pimping yourself out as a coach is not on same level as telling you how to run your program IMO.

What I'm really saying is yea, Big Booster and AD might tell a coach how to do things or else, but if that coach has a proven track record, he most likely won't be around long and will do what Mullen did.

ETA: I also think I remember that Mullen had been wanting bigger $$ than we were willing to pay too.

This was before the '17 Egg. Mullen was looking at the start of the season. That's why he jumped on Tennessee. Mullen was told at the beginning of the season. He told Cohen a few weeks later to go ahead and start looking b/c he wasn't staying.

In Cohen's favor he wasn't Strick. He wasn't going to let Mullen walk all over him.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Every year he is here Leach top end is 7-5 or 8-4 and floor will be 4-8 depending on strength of schedule. He hasnt won the game he wasnt supposed to win this year. Hopefully that game is Ole Miss. But to be honest, the only way that happens is if Auburn hires Kiffin the week before the game.

[yjnkdawg]

You don't tell CML to get an OC or a new QB. . You tell him what your expectations and goals are for our football program are and if it is a must for him to beat OM to remain as HC you tell him that. It is then up to CML to determine what additions, changes, etc. are needed to meet these expectations and goals. If he doesn't do what is needed to meet these then it's on him and you do what you need to do. You don't micro manage a HC by telling him who to play, to hire, etc.

[was21]

Leach ain't going to do what Mullen did because Leach won't be in demand like Mullen was.

[yjnkdawg]

If all you did was look at stats then Rogers seems like a great QB which is why all we hear from announcers and talking heads is how accurate and great at decision making Rogers is. They apparently don't want game film. To touch on what Tater mentioned earlier it is something to note that watching Costello and Rogers is like watching two different offenses (lets ignore the fact that Costello was awful too for a second). Costello made you think we were always a threat anywhere on the field while watching Will we already know nine times out of ten where the ball is going to go. I'd like to see another QB be given the reins before I close the book on Leach.

Btw here's something that gave me a chuckle while looking up Will's draft stock:

Per https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Will-Rogers-QB-MississippiState "Athletic quarterback who is a threat to leave the pocket and gain positive yardage at any time. Possesses very good vision balance, elusiveness and deceptive speed and power as a runner."

Thedraftnetwork.com praises Rogers ability to extend plays with his legs.

si.com gives him a 2nd round grade and says, "He can scramble for yards if the play breaks down,"

I must have been watching the wrong games and quarterback. I sure haven't seen this scrambling for yards, threat leaving the pocket to gain yards, extending plays with his legs. etc.

[dawgday166]

This was before the '17 Egg. Mullen was looking at the start of the season. That's why he jumped on Tennessee. Mullen was told at the beginning of the season. He told Cohen a few weeks later to go ahead and start looking b/c he wasn't staying.

In Cohen's favor he wasn't Strick. He wasn't going to let Mullen walk all over him.

I remember now that it was start of season. We had also just come off of the 2016 season that looked a lot like this one to some extent.

[DownwardDawg]

Joe Morehead averaged 400.2 yards in 2019 (got fired) - Leach is averaging 396.4 in his 3rd year with the most returning players in the SEC. No matter what, that's an eye opening stat that must be carefully considered if we lose to Ole Miss (again).
Wow!

[DownwardDawg]

I don't think it would even take that much Cadaver. It could be argued that you really don't need changes other than a QB who is given the discretion to run and who has the ability to run, just a little bit. Will doesn't have that and never will. Get someone who can and this offense looks much different.

Agree. QB that can run decently and throw down the field and we instantly look better on offense. I wish that was Will because I admire that young man. I want him to succeed.

[DownwardDawg]

As an AD or University President or whatever, you don't hire a football coach, especially one with Leach's track record, and start telling him how to coach or what assistants he needs to add or subtract. You don't tell him who to play or not play. All of that remains to sole responsibility of message board posters who are all experts and brilliant football analysts/coaches in their own right.. **

As an AD, that job/position is to try to provide the resources and support he needs to be successful. Now if things appear bad, then the guy in the AD position can inquire or make suggestions maybe. And the AD certainly can set timetables for righting the ship, if it seems to be floundering. And if I'm AD, I'm certainly conveying to Leach the pressure coming from The President, Big Boosters, etc. ... but most importantly the pressure coming from the big dog message board posters **

I can just see someone going to Saban and telling him how to run his program. They might make suggestions, but Saban will make the decisions. Kirby will too. And so will Leach. Honestly, any coach worth his salt will. They're gonna sink or swim with their own decisions. Doesn't mean conversations around how to get things on track won't happen, but someone like Leach ain't gonna change too much about how he manages and/or organizes all of his personnel ... coaches, players, or whatnot. He will change things only if he thinks ideas or suggestions are better options and worth trying, regardless of where the ideas come from.

Conversations like this are pretty much pointless IMO. If I hire a very successful person in any field, I'm gonna give them the autonomy to do it their way. That's why I hired them to begin with. My job is to help them with what they need to do the job the way they would like to do it. Which is a conversation that should've occurred during the hiring process.

Greg Byrne told Croom to hire a new OC and change his offense.
It happens every season somewhere.

[NCDawg]

As for Spurrier Jr., unless Leach is holding him back, our WR room leaves a lot to be desired and Leach does not seem happy with it at all. JMO.

I agree. When we had Polk, Rogers had a reliable W/R he could go to. With the current bunch, they seem to disappear from game to game. If nobody can get open or separation, there isn't much will can do.

[yjnkdawg]

Joe Morehead averaged 400.2 yards in 2019 (got fired) - Leach is averaging 396.4 in his 3rd year with the most returning players in the SEC. No matter what, that's an eye opening stat that must be carefully considered if we lose to Ole Miss (again).


Total yards don't mean crap, or passing records or whatever, it's wins and losses that matter. Any coach will tell you that. See Kiffin's press conference after the Bama loss. JoMo was terminated due to discipline and culture issues.

[dawgday166]

Greg Byrne told Croom to hire a new OC and change his offense.
It happens every season somewhere.

Not saying it doesn't happen. Just saying that an established HC probably ain't gonna let it happen. They'll get another job (i.e. Mullen) or maybe retire, as Leach might do. Croom was in year 4 and had never been an established HC. And he lost 45-0 (or something like that to OM). If we lose like that or anywhere close to it, I'm ready to move on too. Right now ... I can probably go either way. I'm growing pretty weary of the apathy I sense from our offensive personnel and their lack of toughness. Ultimately, that's on Leach. And this is what pissed me off so bad about JoMo too.

Bammer Nation raising hell about O'Brien and Golding now too. Saban won't let no one tell him how to run his program tho. And they better provide $$ to buy his players for him too.

[yjnkdawg]

I agree. When we had Polk, Rogers had a reliable W/R he could go to. With the current bunch, they seem to disappear from game to game. If nobody can get open or separation, there isn't much will can do.

These good SEC defenses play tight coverage and real physical defense which includes some holding, and pushing off but as long as they don't get flagged for it they will continue to do it. Our receivers haven't adjusted to it for some reason, and aren't playing physical enough like it's my ball only and you ain't getting it. CML has been upset about it too.

[Quaoarsking]

Okay, NO.

How's that?

But if we go 10-2 I'll buy you a steak dinner at Kesler Prime.

It's excellent. You and I actually agree that Egg Bowls are more important than the average game but still not the sole arbiter of whether a coach keeps his job

[Coach34]

word is already out there this may be it for Leach. This problem may solve itself

[dawgday166]

word is already out there this may be it for Leach. This problem may solve itself

That doesn't surprise me. MSU is a tough place to coach and he ain't as young as he used to be. Plus, HCs (and others) now have to deal with all the wokeness prevalent in all the high public profile positions at Universities now too. Leach ain't a woke guy.

[Quaoarsking]

That doesn't surprise me. MSU is a tough place to coach and he ain't as young as he used to be. Plus, HCs (and others) now have to deal with all the wokeness prevalent in all the high public profile positions at Universities now too. Leach ain't a woke guy.

And Keenum is? Give me a break...

[Johnson85]

Since we have several like me that are pretty certain this Air Bone isn't going to work in the SEC, yet many of you think we need to "give it time" (eye roll), I think I may have a proposal....

Would everyone at least agree that he needs to bring in one of his disciples with a younger and more modern approach as an OC that can create some variations to mix in with Leach's air raid? Since we are unlikely to fire him after 7 wins, and he's unlikely to retire when he can mope around here and make $5 million a year, can we at least force him to hire someone to advance his offense out of the 90's? Maybe even Spurrier Jr could be given the reigns of the offense, something, anything to provide a spark, a variation, an adjustment. We should all agree this offense needs a Red Bull, so how can we do it to make both sides happy?

I'm all for canning his ass, but I know it ain't happening because we're little ol State that thinks we can't do no better than 7 wins....so there has to be a solution that isn't just sitting here watching us continue to do nothing against teams above .500 as our crowds dwindle, recruiting tanks, and NIL gains nothing.

Thoughts?

I don't think it's as much about giving it time, it's just about reality. Leach is doing ok. Not where people want him to be and it's really frustrating that his side of the ball disappears for stretches pretty much every game and often for entire games. Overall, we're treading water with him. Maybe the offense looks different with a QB that can push down the field more, or maybe it doesn't. But firing him at this point won't make our job attractive. We'll have a short leash and limited NIL support along with a roster built for the air raid. Who are we going to get at that point? Not saying there won't be coaches dying to come coach; there will be. I'm just not sure what kind of track record they are going to have.

If we are going to pay him $10M+ (or whatever his buyout is at this point) to not coach us anymore, we'd probably get much better result asking anybody willing to pony up for a buyout to put that money towards NIL instead.

[Matt3467]

word is already out there this may be it for Leach. This problem may solve itself

If Leach is forced out after going 7-5 at worst in his second full season then who in their right mind would want to come to State?

[dawgday166]

And Keenum is? Give me a break...

I didn't say that did I? What I meant was people in those positions can be crucified over any trivial thing they say or do, so they have to be very careful. And a big deal can be made about something to the point that the University has no choice but to reprimand or fire someone

Just like you bowing up just now on an trivial, harmless comment.

ETA: And even if Keenum ain't woke either, he is more smooth with statements and politically.

[DownwardDawg]

If Leach is forced out after going 7-5 at worst in his second full season then who in their right mind would want to come to State?

It's not a "force out". It's what a lot of us hoped might happen.
Leach is not going to coddle these players. Times have changed. I can see him saying screw it and chillin with his family.

Oh, and for 5 million or more a year???? There will be a line of coaches wanting to show how much better they are than Leach, Mullen, etc......
This is head coaches we're talking.

[Jarius]

If Leach is forced out after going 7-5 at worst in his second full season then who in their right mind would want to come to State?

There is a rumor that Leach is sick and going to retire for health reasons.

[memsu06]

Some of you act like we've been a powerhouse in the SEC for the last 1/2 century and anything less than 10-2 season is a failure. Fact is we've been at the bottom of the SEC for a majority of those years. We aren't Alabama/LSU/Georgia. Some of you let Ole Miss get into your heads. I knew when they hired Lane it would be just a stepping stone job for him. Let it play out this year and we'll see how they handle players transferring and having to rebuild their roster.

It's taken time at every stop for Leach to get things going. Year 1 was COVID and that screwed up everything. Then we had players not buying in and quitting/transferring out. In reality Leach is in year 2. We've all seen Leach try to run it more this year, but also realize both our #1 and #2 RBs have been beat up. The fact Leach went after Chis Parson means he knows a running QB will add that extra spark we need on offense. Unfortunately Will isn't a running QB, but he knows the offense and can be accurate. Receivers need to catch the ball too. Mullen could hardly recruit receivers that were 1/2 as reliable as ours now.

Now throw in NIL and how that affects recruiting. We aren't going to get those difference makers if they're offered more $$$$ at another school. The NIL is the wild West right now with hardly any rules. We just don't have the funds/fan support/population to compete against larger schools. For perspective the University of South FL has 50K students. We're at what 20-25K if that now. NIL has drastically affected how you recruit players now. It's also going to affect what coaches we're able to hire. If they don't have NIL money to play with they know the road will be tougher for them getting players. Smaller schools like ours need to start pushing for NIL deal caps to even the playing field.

[Percho]

As an AD or University President or whatever, you don't hire a football coach, especially one with Leach's track record, and start telling him how to coach or what assistants he needs to add or subtract. You don't tell him who to play or not play. All of that remains to sole responsibility of message board posters who are all experts and brilliant football analysts/coaches in their own right.. **

As an AD, that job/position is to try to provide the resources and support he needs to be successful. Now if things appear bad, then the guy in the AD position can inquire or make suggestions maybe. And the AD certainly can set timetables for righting the ship, if it seems to be floundering. And if I'm AD, I'm certainly conveying to Leach the pressure coming from The President, Big Boosters, etc. ... but most importantly the pressure coming from the big dog message board posters **

I can just see someone going to Saban and telling him how to run his program. They might make suggestions, but Saban will make the decisions. Kirby will too. And so will Leach. Honestly, any coach worth his salt will. They're gonna sink or swim with their own decisions. Doesn't mean conversations around how to get things on track won't happen, but someone like Leach ain't gonna change too much about how he manages and/or organizes all of his personnel ... coaches, players, or whatnot. He will change things only if he thinks ideas or suggestions are better options and worth trying, regardless of where the ideas come from.

Conversations like this are pretty much pointless IMO. If I hire a very successful person in any field, I'm gonna give them the autonomy to do it their way. That's why I hired them to begin with. My job is to help them with what they need to do the job the way they would like to do it. Which is a conversation that should've occurred during the hiring process.

Best post you have ever made.

This is about what can be built at MSU by Leach which will take up to five years not counting 2020. If that doesn't take place nothing will ever be built. IMHO

[Coach34]

If Leach is forced out after going 7-5 at worst in his second full season then who in their right mind would want to come to State?

not forcing him out. Him deciding it's time to head to Key West for good on his own...we'll see how it plays out

[BrunswickDawg]

Guys, more and more I'm convinced it comes down to $$$$. Plain and simple.
This is all relative to '21 (latest data available, Vandy doesn't report $): https://knightnewhousedata.org/fbs/sec
MSU Football Spending: $22.9m SEC Median: $36m MSU is dead last in football budget. Next lowest is Mizzou at $24m. OM was spending $38.3m - good for 3rd in the SEC in '21
MSU Spending on Coaches: $10.1m SEC Median: $11.4m MSU was only ahead of Mizzou and Arkansas.

The only way that changes is if we give more. More to the University. More to the Bulldog Club. More to the Bulldog Initiative.

[Matt3467]

It's not a "force out". It's what a lot of us hoped might happen.
Leach is not going to coddle these players. Times have changed. I can see him saying screw it and chillin with his family.

Oh, and for 5 million or more a year???? There will be a line of coaches wanting to show how much better they are than Leach, Mullen, etc......
This is head coaches we're talking.

Anyone on this board would take the HC job for that pay I just meant that when it comes to an actual established/proven coach they may see that (along with our previous coach of 2 years) as not something they want to uproot their lives for.

Edit: but if he leaves for other reasons such as some have mentioned that'd be different I'm just basing it off those that say if he doesn't beat OM he'll be fired.

[TrapGame]

Best post you have ever made.

This is about what can be built at MSU by Leach which will take up to five years not counting 2020. If that doesn't take place nothing will ever be built. IMHO

Y'all stop with the five years bullshit. Croom was saying that too. Dan was one blown call and a leprechaun away from going 7-5 his first year as a head coach in the SEC.

This year's team is more talented than most of Leach's Tech teams.

[dawgday166]

Y'all stop with the five years bullshit. Croom was saying that too. Dan was one blown call and a leprechaun away from going 7-5 his first year as a head coach in the SEC.

This year's team is more talented than most of Leach's Tech teams.

Not at QB. Personally, I'd give Leach one more year to show me something. Unless he wins out from here, then he'd be off the hot seat for now.

ETA: Then he would've only lost the KY game which I consider to be a somewhat bad loss.

[DownwardDawg]

Anyone on this board would take the HC job for that pay I just meant that when it comes to an actual established/proven coach they may see that (along with our previous coach of 2 years) as not something they want to uproot their lives for.

Edit: but if he leaves for other reasons such as some have mentioned that'd be different I'm just basing it off those that say if he doesn't beat OM he'll be fired.

Yeah. I don't believe for a second he'll be fired at 7-5. Ain't happening.

[Johnson85]

Y'all stop with the five years bullshit. Croom was saying that too. Dan was one blown call and a leprechaun away from going 7-5 his first year as a head coach in the SEC.

This year's team is more talented than most of Leach's Tech teams.

It doesn't take a minimum of 5 years, but just because somebody hasn't peaked in 3 years doesn't mean it's time to burn it down. I'm not expecting Leach to make a jump. I think this is basically the peak and we'll probably have the same record next year with an easier schedule because our D is going to take a good step back. But I don't think it's hopeless and I don't think we burn $15M right now to hope we can upgrade.

[bulldawg28]

It's excellent. You and I actually agree that Egg Bowls are more important than the average game but still not the sole arbiter of whether a coach keeps his job


not forcing him out. Him deciding it's time to head to Key West for good on his own...we'll see how it plays out

He needs to do it early enough that we can hire Freeze or Primetime lol.

[TrapGame]

word is already out there this may be it for Leach. This problem may solve itself

You know they ain't making a move unless they've got a couple of coaches ready to interview.

So, what are you hearing? Spill.

[Saltydog]

I do too DD.......He's a great representative for the university but athletically he's just not gifted enough with arm strength to push the ball down the field or get out of the pocket and pick up yards.

[TrapGame]

Not at QB. Personally, I'd give Leach one more year to show me something. Unless he wins out from here, then he'd be off the hot seat for now.

ETA: Then he would've only lost the KY game which I consider to be a somewhat bad loss.

I just don't see us winning the EB unless Lane has just totally checked out b/c he's accepted another job.

[dawgday166]

I just don't see us winning the EB unless Lane has just totally checked out b/c he's accepted another job.

Not in Oxford for sure. If in Vegas, maybe 60/40 chance at best. If weather rolls in and it's rainy & windy, no way in hell.

[EdwardDrayton]

We’re not winning the Egg Bowl. I want to SAY we will. But we’re not.

[Goldendawg]

Shit, if he loses the Egg this year he might not be retained. That is a very real possibility and not hypothetical at all.

And let me say again. WE AIN'T WINNING TEN GAMES NEXT SEASON. We do not have the players, especially QB, or coach to pull off ten wins. We just don't.

If arky gets physical with OM, Lane rumors are running wild, and OM team somewhat quits, we might have a chance in Oxford. If we lose in a Croom-like, 48-0 "I didn't see that coming", type loss, Leach has to go. 7-5 is bad enough, a big loss unacceptable.

[Goldendawg]

No one is saying we are going 10-2 next year. I'm just trying to get you to commit either way, yes or no, whether IF we did go 10-2 with one of the 2 losses being Ole Miss, would you still want to fire Leach?

Of course not, but the Egg should not be considered just another game, especially this year. 8-4! Hail State!

[Goldendawg]

I must have been watching the wrong games and quarterback. I sure haven't seen this scrambling for yards, threat leaving the pocket to gain yards, extending plays with his legs. etc.

Probably got Will mixed up with OM QB. No one outside of the SEC usually knows the difference.

[tribaldawg]

Since we have several like me that are pretty certain this Air Bone isn't going to work in the SEC, yet many of you think we need to "give it time" (eye roll), I think I may have a proposal....

Would everyone at least agree that he needs to bring in one of his disciples with a younger and more modern approach as an OC that can create some variations to mix in with Leach's air raid? Since we are unlikely to fire him after 7 wins, and he's unlikely to retire when he can mope around here and make $5 million a year, can we at least force him to hire someone to advance his offense out of the 90's? Maybe even Spurrier Jr could be given the reigns of the offense, something, anything to provide a spark, a variation, an adjustment. We should all agree this offense needs a Red Bull, so how can we do it to make both sides happy?

I'm all for canning his ass, but I know it ain't happening because we're little ol State that thinks we can't do no better than 7 wins....so there has to be a solution that isn't just sitting here watching us continue to do nothing against teams above .500 as our crowds dwindle, recruiting tanks, and NIL gains nothing.

Thoughts?

So? You are going to ?force home to hire? someone based on this boards rants (well at least this boards least reasonable people)? Good luck with that.

[Goldendawg]

These good SEC defenses play tight coverage and real physical defense which includes some holding, and pushing off but as long as they don't get flagged for it they will continue to do it. Our receivers haven't adjusted to it for some reason, and aren't playing physical enough like it's my ball only and you ain't getting it. CML has been upset about it too.

Leach recently said that Ducking is who he would name that was going things well. That speaks as to how bad things are. Ducking is very good on fades in the endzone. Otherwise, I have been to all home games and watched the rest on TV. Watch Ducking when he catches the ball especially across the middle. When he sees contact coming, he goes down on his own before it gets there. Most of the WR group is soft and there are far too many in the rotation to get in a rhythm. Maybe they are tired of 5 to 10 yard routes and getting lit up on occasion. Most alpha type WR's also like the deep ball also. Something we can't seem to do. JMO,

[vindastra]

Not at QB. Personally, I'd give Leach one more year to show me something. Unless he wins out from here, then he'd be off the hot seat for now.

ETA: Then he would've only lost the KY game which I consider to be a somewhat bad loss.

Just not feeling this. We will still see Will play all 4 quarters irrespective of the score. None of the backups will come out to show anything.

[yjnkdawg]

This was before the '17 Egg. Mullen was looking at the start of the season. That's why he jumped on Tennessee. Mullen was told at the beginning of the season. He told Cohen a few weeks later to go ahead and start looking b/c he wasn't staying.

In Cohen's favor he wasn't Strick. He wasn't going to let Mullen walk all over him.

Mullen had planned on getting out of here way before then. It just didn't work out as quick as he thought it would. He wanted to keep one assistant coach on our staff and supposedly told him we will stay here at MSU a few years and win some bowl games and then move on to a real football school. This didn't go over good with the assistant coach and he turned Mullen down. Mullen didn't care about our football program. It was his only opportunity at the time to be a SEC HC.

[yjnkdawg]

Leach recently said that Ducking is who he would name that was going things well. That speaks as to how bad things are. Ducking is very good on fades in the endzone. Otherwise, I have been to all home games and watched the rest on TV. Watch Ducking when he catches the ball especially across the middle. When he sees contact coming, he goes down on his own before it gets there. Most of the WR group is soft and there are far too many in the rotation to get in a rhythm. Maybe they are tired of 5 to 10 yard routes and getting lit up on occasion. Most alpha type WR's also like the deep ball also. Something we can't seem to do. JMO,

Yep....... CML has spoken well of Justin Robinson and he has the potential to be a really good receiver. The really good receivers are going to fight for the ball and look at anything thrown their way as their ball only. You have to a least show a defense you can stretch the field on your passing game , and I don't see where we have shown that.

[TrapGame]

Mullen had planned on getting out of here way before then. It just didn't work out as quick as he thought it would. He wanted to keep one assistant coach on our staff and supposedly told him we will stay here at MSU a few years and win some bowl games and then move on to a real football school. This didn't go over good with the assistant coach and he turned Mullen down. Mullen didn't care about our football program. It was his only opportunity at the time to be a SEC HC.

And that's why Cohen told him we'd be looking around in November if he was.

[Jarius]

If arky gets physical with OM, Lane rumors are running wild, and OM team somewhat quits, we might have a chance in Oxford. If we lose in a Croom-like, 48-0 "I didn't see that coming", type loss, Leach has to go. 7-5 is bad enough, a big loss unacceptable.

I don’t think people realize how big a deal it is to lose that game 3 times in a row. It isn’t the only thing that matters but he has not been good enough to get another year if he loses that game 3 times in a row. I suspect he will be allowed to “retire” with a nice severance if and when he loses that game.

[TrapGame]

I don’t think people realize how big a deal it is to lose that game 3 times in a row. It isn’t the only thing that matters but he has not been good enough to get another year if he loses that game 3 times in a row. I suspect he will be allowed to “retire” with a nice severance if and when he loses that game.

I concur with your statement but we really need an AD before we journey into no man's land. Unless, Keenum is running this search on the down low right now b/c Leach has already told him he's bowing out at the end of the season.

[yjnkdawg]

I don’t think people realize how big a deal it is to lose that game 3 times in a row. It isn’t the only thing that matters but he has not been good enough to get another year if he loses that game 3 times in a row. I suspect he will be allowed to “retire” with a nice severance if and when he loses that game.

Keenum doesn't take losing the OM game lightly, and it's definitely not just another game to him.. Any HC who has been here knows very well the importance to him of winning that game, and having the Golden Egg Trophy being here.

[Lord McBuckethead]

It really is as simple as this. We have Eastern Tennessee State this weekend. Sawyer needs to play the entire game. PERIOD. It is time to move on from Will Rogers. He is a great guy, and he battles out there, but he literally handcuffs the entire offense. I would rather lose Saturday and take a step forward with someone else than win a meaningless game where Will throws for 350 after being silent for 25 game minutes because he simply doesn't perform.

I also want to see our best WRs on the field at the same time and tell them to run Crisp 17n routes or pack your bags.

Those two things will get through to the team.


I will add this. TEMPO. I do not want a single play clock to get below 18 seconds prior to the snap. Get the play, get to the line, check out if you have to, and snap the ball. None of this wait around for the defense to get set bullshit. Also, we only sub if the ball goes out of bounds. Time to 17n nut up offense.

Edited to Add, I don't really care who the hell plays QB. Sawyer, the Freshman, a walk on, don't care. AS long as whoever it is can physically throw a ball 28 yards down field with some zip and on target.