Is the goal at MSU to win championships?

[HoopsDawg]

Some may say that's a pipe dream. Maybe it is.

But if that's the goal, then you have to be able to beat Bama. So how do you beat Bama? There's really only 2 ways. A) Recruit like UGA, Clemson, A&M or B) High speed tempo, mobile QB, and an offense that can go down the field like Ole Miss under Freeze, UT this year, or AU under Malzahn.

We can't do A. So it seems to me the only option is B.

Just food for thought.

[msstate7]

If that's the best way to beat bama, it's makes sense that's how you beat lesser teams too

[EdwardDrayton]

Start with an AD whose primary forte is football.

[HoopsDawg]

Start with an AD whose primary forte is football.

Yeah, no one can convince me that Leach wasn't a panic hire. No way he was in Cohen's Top 5 when he fired Moorhead.

[HoopsDawg]

If that's the best way to beat bama, it's makes sense that's how you beat lesser teams too

Agree. People argue we had to do something different and Leach is certainly different. Maybe we just did the "wrong different".

[Coach34]

Start with an AD whose primary forte is football.

I'll be shocked if Cohen is not our AD until 2030

[dawgday166]

Yeah, no one can convince me that Leach wasn't a panic hire. No way he was in Cohen's Top 5 when he fired Moorhead.

Depends on who was available and who turned us down. But there are probably tons of coaches salivating to come coach at MSU and recruit in MS against OM, Bama, LSU, AU & GA and now Primetime too. Any that would IMO are most likely looking to do what Mullen was always looking to do.

[Coach34]

Depends on who was available and who turned us down. But there are probably tons of coaches salivating to come coach at MSU and recruit in MS against OM, Bama, LSU, AU & GA and now Primetime too. Any that do IMO are looking to do what Mullen was always looking to do.

That's ok. I dont understand why people keep bringing this up. If we hire someone that wants to use us as a springboard- thats great. It means they were winning games and people wanted them. Shit- Jackie kept trying to get the Bama job when he was our coach. Once he figured out Bama wasnt going to hire him- he got to work to beat their ass. 1997 and 1998 were awesome because of it. 1999 was good too but the loss in T-Town hurt

[WhiskeyPirate]

Depends on who was available and who turned us down. But there are probably tons of coaches salivating to come coach at MSU and recruit in MS against OM, Bama, LSU, AU & GA and now Primetime too. Any that would IMO are most likely looking to do what Mullen was always looking to do.

Yea, in the era of NIL, this is where you want to be to win a National title.

Things are pretty much designed to make that impossible.

[Coach34]

Some may say that's a pipe dream. Maybe it is.

But if that's the goal, then you have to be able to beat Bama. So how do you beat Bama? There's really only 2 ways. A) Recruit like UGA, Clemson, A&M or B) High speed tempo, mobile QB, and an offense that can go down the field like Ole Miss under Freeze, UT this year, or AU under Malzahn.

We can't do A. So it seems to me the only option is B.

Just food for thought.

In football? No. We know we cant afford it
In basketball? Used to be. We have spent some serious money there but Stands and Howland just couldnt do it.

Baseball? Yep

[dawgday166]

That's ok. I dont understand why people keep bringing this up. If we hire someone that wants to use us as a springboard- thats great. It means they were winning games and people wanted them. Shit- Jackie kept trying to get the Bama job when he was our coach. Once he figured out Bama wasnt going to hire him- he got to work to beat their ass. 1997 and 1998 were awesome because of it. 1999 was good too but the loss in T-Town hurt

Ok ... won't argue that one. And I'm good with that but each coach is gonna take at least 5 years doing that IMO, regardless of who they are. And we'll be going thru the same wailing and gnashing of teeth about them that we are now with Leach too. Folks seem to think we're The Ohio State University and the next Urban Meyer is ready to come in here, turn us around in 3 years, get us to a NY6 Bowl, and then bolt.

We're a developmental program and that takes time.

[Catfish]

Depends on who was available and who turned us down. But there are probably tons of coaches salivating to come coach at MSU and recruit in MS against OM, Bama, LSU, AU & GA and now Primetime too. Any that would IMO are most likely looking to do what Mullen was always looking to do.

Don't take the bait on this post. Just another way for them to get members fired up about getting rid of Leach. They're getting rather devious about it too. Old Hoops or someone will start it and Chef34 will jump right in. Joined at the hip with the same goal. They were pissed when Leach was hired and they won't stop until he's gone.

[CaptainObvious]

Well if Cohen was turned down by 3 or 4 coaches before deciding to see if Leach had interest, that is an indictment on MSU, not Cohen. And I am certainly no defender of Cohen.

I think the Bears hiring Kiffin forced his and Keenum?s hands to try and make a splash hire because they did. Unfortunately, there is a difference in a younger player relatable guy with innovation in his offensive mind and a curmudgedy old guy set in his ways and intent on HIS way only. Cohen?s failure was in 2018, not 2020. He screwed up his first football hire and then panicked. Heck, he fired the only coach in our history that is undefeated against Ole Miss, but the guy still needed to be fired because he should have never been hired.

[BrunswickDawg]

Ok ... won't argue that one. And I'm good with that but each coach is gonna take at least 5 years doing that IMO, regardless of who they are. And we'll be going thru the same wailing and gnashing of teeth about them that we are now with Leach too. Folks seem to think we're The Ohio State University and the next Urban Meyer is ready to come in here, turn us around in 3 years, get us to a NY6 Bowl, and then bolt.

We're a developmental program and that takes time.

5 years or more - Jackie took 8 and there were a ton of dumbasses clamoring to fire him in '95 & '96 and wanting to hire Bobby Wallace. The big thing is we can't be reactionary and have to make good decisions based on more than just wins in a single season or record against Ole Miss.

[Pinto]

Our current athletic administration is only about winning baseball titles. If we win other titles or do well in other sports, it?s due to the coach doing it in spite of the athletic administration.

[BrunswickDawg]

Our current athletic administration is only about winning baseball titles. If we win other titles or do well in other sports, it?s due to the coach doing it in spite of the athletic administration.

It's funny that people won't give our administration credit for making some damn good hires in non- big 3 sports. Track, tennis, golf, volleyball and soccer are all performing as good or better than they ever have. We actually stand better chances of winning in those sports than in football or basketball.

[WhiskeyPirate]

5 years or more - Jackie took 8 and there were a ton of dumbasses clamoring to fire him in '95 & '96 and wanting to hire Bobby Wallace. The big thing is we can't be reactionary and have to make good decisions based on more than just wins in a single season or record against Ole Miss.
Good post. Unfortunately there are a lot of morons who can’t figure this out. Leach is one of the best I’ve seen at leveraging under funded, under talented teams into strong competitive programs. That’s exactly what we are. He’s about the best fit you are going to find if he’s allowed time to build.

[Pinto]

Do those sports pay for themselves or any other program? Do they put you on the map even in the state or just a nice story for the back page of the b section? Do they up enrollment? As Hank Flick said athletics are the doorway to the university for many students, those sports don?t open doors.


It's funny that people won't give our administration credit for making some damn good hires in non- big 3 sports. Track, tennis, golf, volleyball and soccer are all performing as good or better than they ever have. We actually stand better chances of winning in those sports than in football or basketball.

[Coach34]

Ok ... won't argue that one. And I'm good with that but each coach is gonna take at least 5 years doing that IMO, regardless of who they are. And we'll be going thru the same wailing and gnashing of teeth about them that we are now with Leach too. Folks seem to think we're The Ohio State University and the next Urban Meyer is ready to come in here, turn us around in 3 years, get us to a NY6 Bowl, and then bolt.

We're a developmental program and that takes time.

No good coach needs 5 years with an open door transfer policy we have today. Thats just dumb. How long did it take Lame at Mississippi? 2 years. How long did it take Heup? 2 years

[EdwardDrayton]

I'll be shocked if Cohen is not our AD until 2030

Unfortunately I agree that’s likely the case Coach. And I always have been a fan and supporter of John. Still am. But think we need a change.

[WhiskeyPirate]

No good coach needs 5 years with an open door transfer policy we have today. Thats just dumb. How long did it take Lame at Mississippi? 2 years. How long did it take Heup? 2 years

Same level of funding and program revenue right ?

[dawgday166]

5 years or more - Jackie took 8 and there were a ton of dumbasses clamoring to fire him in '95 & '96 and wanting to hire Bobby Wallace. The big thing is we can't be reactionary and have to make good decisions based on more than just wins in a single season or record against Ole Miss.

My thoughts exactly. Same with Mullen too. Leach has had more obstacles to competing in SEC starting out than just about anyone, what with Covid, the decimation of roster and discipline by JoMo, etc. Now throw in NIL too.

However, if everyone else wants to repeat this same cycle over/over/over like the Everready Bunny then WTH ... let's do it ****

[HoopsDawg]

Don't take the bait on this post. Just another way for them to get members fired up about getting rid of Leach. They're getting rather devious about it too. Old Hoops or someone will start it and Chef34 will jump right in. Joined at the hip with the same goal. They were pissed when Leach was hired and they won't stop until he's gone.

My only agenda is what's best for MSU. I think we can be better than what I have witnessed the past 5 years. I will admit I long for the days of Jackie Wayne. Leach is not awful. He knows how to run a program. But he's not a great recruiter. His staff is not a great recruiting staff by SEC standards. And I do hate that he won't evolve his offense. I also think he has an eye on retirement.

[SPMT]

I'll be shocked if Cohen is not our AD until 2030

Agree. He?s not going anywhere unless he retires

[Coach34]

Hell, Beamer in Y2 at SC is 5-2 and looking at least 7 wins

[HoopsDawg]

It's funny that people won't give our administration credit for making some damn good hires in non- big 3 sports. Track, tennis, golf, volleyball and soccer are all performing as good or better than they ever have. We actually stand better chances of winning in those sports than in football or basketball.

Why is that funny? I mean that's great, but no one cares except their parents and maybe 1% of the fans.

[dawgday166]

No good coach needs 5 years with an open door transfer policy we have today. Thats just dumb. How long did it take Lame at Mississippi? 2 years. How long did it take Heup? 2 years

I hear you ... we're certainly on a par program wise with TN.

So you donating your millions to throw at the top notch ones?

We'll see what happens with the rest of Kiffin's schedule. He should be in NY6 Bowl this year again then.

[Coach34]

Same level of funding and program revenue right ?

Mississippi dwarfs us? South Carolina? GTFO with the poor us BS

[WhiskeyPirate]

My thoughts exactly. Same with Mullen too. Leach has had more obstacles to competing in SEC starting out than just about anyone, what with Covid, the decimation of roster and discipline by JoMo, etc. Now throw in NIL too.

However, if everyone else wants to repeat this same cycle over/over/over like the Everready Bunny then WTH ... let's do it ****

I actually see people argue that year one at a program during Covid, trying to install a new offense and defense over ZOOM while simultaneously trying to clean up JOMOs mess of a program , not playing a regular schedule or meeting in person..... counts as a regular season.

Yea, ok. Sure it does.

Is

[Coach34]

I hear you ... we're certainly on a par program wise with TN.

So you donating your millions to throw at the top notch ones?

We'll see what happens with the rest of Kiffin's schedule. He should be in NY6 Bowl this year again then.

He was NY6 in Y2. What were we in Y2?

[WhiskeyPirate]

Mississippi dwarfs us? South Carolina? GTFO with the poor us BS

In booster money they absolutely do, in program revenue they also are wealthier. Let’s see where they are and where Leach is in year five. They probably end up 7-5 this year. They had Corrall and an easy schedule, that’s about it.

Tennessee like most of the teams in the sec is way ahead of is in terms of revenue.

[Coach34]

I actually see people argue that year one at a program during Covid, trying to install a new offense and defense over ZOOM while simultaneously trying to clean up JOMOs mess of a program , not playing a regular schedule or meeting in person..... counts as a regular season.

Yea, ok. Sure it does.

Is

Were we the only school that did this?????? **** no we werent

[Coach34]

In booster money they absolutely do, in program revenue they also are wealthier. Let’s see where they are and where Leach is in year five. They probably end up 7-5 this year. They had Corrall and an easy schedule, that’s about it.

Mississippi's floor is 8-4 this year. You better get ready for #3 in a row.

[BrunswickDawg]

My only agenda is what's best for MSU. I think we can be better than what I have witnessed the past 5 years. I will admit I long for the days of Jackie Wayne. Leach is not awful. He knows how to run a program. But he's not a great recruiter. His staff is not a great recruiting staff by SEC standards. And I do hate that he won't evolve his offense. I also think he has an eye on retirement.

I love Jackie and will always love that my first MSU season as a student was '91. But, people always hold him up at a mythical level. In his third season I was sitting thru 3-6-2 with a loss to Memphis and a tie with Arkansas State. In '95 I got to watch 3-8 and a loss to Louisiana-Monroe.
And I was there for clinching the West and that glorious moment when we had a lead in the SEC title game. It wasn't always rosy with Jackie, but lost like to remember it that way.

[dawgday166]

No good coach needs 5 years with an open door transfer policy we have today. Thats just dumb. How long did it take Lame at Mississippi? 2 years. How long did it take Heup? 2 years

He inherited a better roster and was able to keep them. What happens when ole Trev Williams gets to be a stud maybe then takes some $$ to go play somewhere else.

Where's Heath now?

We gonna still get the stud Dlinemen too? Jeff Simmons probably would've loved him some mega $$ coming out of HS. BTW, the stud Dlinemen haven't been as plentiful in last couple of years as they have been thru most of 2010's. Leach gonna have to do more of the Preston Smith types probably.

[WhiskeyPirate]

Were we the only school that did this?????? **** no we werent

So every other school had a new coach in year one during Covid ?

[Coach34]

He inherited a better roster and was able to keep them. What happens when ole Trev Williams gets to be a stud maybe then takes some $$ to go play somewhere else.

Where's Heath now?

We gonna still get the stud Dlinemen too? Jeff Simmons probably would've loved him some mega $$ coming out of HS. BTW, the stud Dlinemen haven't been as plentiful in last couple of years as they have been thru most of 2010's. Leach gonna have to do more of the Preston Smith types probably.

Simmons got 6 figures to come to State. We aint poor.

[Matt3467]

So every other school had a new coach in year one during Covid ?

Yea I don't get the vitriol aimed at Leach for 2020. He probably had the most difficult job of any new head coach coming in that year with his style of offense.

[msstate7]

Delete

[HoopsDawg]

I love Jackie and will always love that my first MSU season as a student was '91. But, people always hold him up at a mythical level. In his third season I was sitting thru 3-6-2 with a loss to Memphis and a tie with Arkansas State. In '95 I got to watch 3-8 and a loss to Louisiana-Monroe.
And I was there for clinching the West and that glorious moment when we had a lead in the SEC title game. It wasn't always rosy with Jackie, but lost like to remember it that way.

Believe me, I remember the bad years. I still can't believe he punted to Derek Abney. And it was frustrating he could never find a QB. It's never going to be smooth sailing every year at MSU, but Jackie had a lot of things stacked against him and never complained. He got us to Atlanta and I always felt we were close to breaking through. That 1999 team was special. Just needed a QB.

[Coach34]

So every other school had a new coach in year one during Covid ?

Mississippi did.
Mizzou
UPig
Baylor
Fla St
Memphis

We werent the Lone Ranger

[Commercecomet24]

Simmons got 6 figures to come to State. We aint poor.

Yeah people say that a lot but In fact we're not poor at all. I've got 2(we outbid 2 other sec schools)of my former players on the team and they're doing just fine monetarily and luckily I've been privy to know some of the deals that are going on.Trust me they can afford the newest iPhone lol.

[Coach34]

Yeah people say that a lot but In fact we're not poor at all. I've got 2(we outbid 2 other sec schools)of my former players on the team and they're doing just fine monetarily and luckily I've been privy to know some of the deals that are going on.Trust me they can afford the newest iPhone lol.

No kidding. It amazes me how people dont put 2 and 2 together when they do stories on these college kids. They did a great one on Simmons about where he "used to live"and how he had overcome all that life....it never occurred to anyone to question why that was where he "used to live"????

[Commercecomet24]

No kidding. It amazes me how people dont put 2 and 2 together when they do stories on these college kids. They did a great one on Simmons about where he "used to live"and how he had overcome all that life....it never occurred to anyone to question why that was where he "used to live"????

Oh yeah that's a good one. Now one could argue that we're not as agressive with our funds in recruiting as we should be, but we definitely don't have short pockets.

[BrunswickDawg]

Believe me, I remember the bad years. I still can't believe he punted to Derek Abney. And it was frustrating he could never find a QB. It's never going to be smooth sailing every year at MSU, but Jackie had a lot of things stacked against him and never complained. He got us to Atlanta and I always felt we were close to breaking through. That 1999 team was special. Just needed a QB.

I agree completely. That's why I get frustrated with the "fire everybody" crowd. We trusted Jackie because of his track record. But our "best coach ever" didn't really start competing at many here want until years 7/8/9. It may not take other schools as long. Most of those schools have a better history and better national recognition, are in bigger/better recruiting areas, and just have more advantages. And I'm not po ol missipi state about it. Jackie and Dan both showed we can win - but it does take more to get there.

[LC Dawg]

How does a thread about winning championships evolve to comparing us to Ole Miss and South Carolina? They don't seem to be winning championships.
If we are going to discuss Mississippi State winning championships let's compare us to actual championship programs. I think we know how that works out.

[BrunswickDawg]

No kidding. It amazes me how people dont put 2 and 2 together when they do stories on these college kids. They did a great one on Simmons about where he "used to live"and how he had overcome all that life....it never occurred to anyone to question why that was where he "used to live"????

Had a friend who was one of Jackie's first "Mad Dawgs". When asked about a certain team mates new Lexus he said "X" told them his "Auntie" bought it for him. Friend said "I grew up with X, his "Auntie" lives in a cardboard box with a kickstand, she didn't buy that car."

[Commercecomet24]

How does a thread about winning championships evolve to comparing us to Ole Miss and South Carolina? They don't seem to be winning championships.
If we are going to discuss Mississippi State winning championships let's compare us to actual championship programs. I think we know how that works out.

Because WE ARE ELITEDAWGS!

[WhiskeyPirate]

How does a thread about winning championships evolve to comparing us to Ole Miss and South Carolina? They don't seem to be winning championships.
If we are going to discuss Mississippi State winning championships let's compare us to actual championship programs. I think we know how that works out.

We just need a running qb and a quick fix guy who is looking to leave us in 3 years, that will have us in the playoffs in no time. NIl booster money doesn’t matter.

[Commercecomet24]

Had a friend who was one of Jackie's first "Mad Dawgs". When asked about a certain team mates new Lexus he said "X" told them his "Auntie" bought it for him. Friend said "I grew up with X, his "Auntie" lives in a cardboard box with a kickstand, she didn't buy that car."

I remember Ashley Cooper had a sweet ride and Ed Smith did too lol! Was told they're auntie bought theirs too!

[PikeDawg15]

It's funny that people won't give our administration credit for making some damn good hires in non- big 3 sports. Track, tennis, golf, volleyball and soccer are all performing as good or better than they ever have. We actually stand better chances of winning in those sports than in football or basketball.

I would say say over 75% of the United States doesnt give a damn about any sport that isnt football, basketball, or baseball.

What sucks about the one sport we are elite at , is the fact it isnt even shown on tv much. There is maybe 1 college baseball game per week that is on tv. Normal Tv that is, not espn +

[PikeDawg15]

Oh yeah that's a good one. Now one could argue that we're not as agressive with our funds in recruiting as we should be, but we definitely don't have short pockets.

Yep , We have multiple Billionaire alum , but we mismanage our funds and dont put it in the right areas as it should be.

We love to talk shit about other programs but everyone knows we have bought players too.

The worst decision ever was not to throw the kitchen sink at Cam Newton. We would have won a national title in 2010.

[Commercecomet24]

Yep , We have multiple Billionaire alum , but we mismanage our funds and dont put it in the right areas as it should be.

We love to talk shit about other programs but everyone knows we have bought players too.

The worst decision ever was not to throw the kitchen sink at Cam Newton. We would have won a national title in 2010.

Yeah we've got a couple of very wealthy ones right here in Jones county(they have names on buildings) Yeah unfortunately if you don't pay you can't compete at all. It's a dirty business for sure.

Yeah the not paying Cam thing was a bad bad miss.

[PikeDawg15]

Yeah we've got a couple of very wealthy ones right here in Jones county(they have names on buildings) Yeah unfortunately if you don't pay you can't compete at all. It's a dirty business for sure.

Yeah the not paying Cam thing was a bad bad miss.

I know who you are talking about.

They built the Big screen .

[BrunswickDawg]

I would say say over 75% of the United States doesnt give a damn about any sport that isnt football, basketball, or baseball.

What sucks about the one sport we are elite at , is the fact it isnt even shown on tv much. There is maybe 1 college baseball game per week that is on tv. Normal Tv that is, not espn +

The flip side of this is that if our non-big 3 were all doing poorly, people would add that to piling on the AD about how poorly managed things are. To me, as an athletic department, it is important to make sure all sports are healthy and not just the revenue sports.

[Goldendawg]

Yeah people say that a lot but In fact we're not poor at all. I've got 2(we outbid 2 other sec schools)of my former players on the team and they're doing just fine monetarily and luckily I've been privy to know some of the deals that are going on.Trust me they can afford the newest iPhone lol.

I am going to be very generic in posting my recent observation of an "NIL" discussion.

My son and I were getting gas at a Starkville location on a weeknight before the KY game. An adult who looked to be connected to our program perhaps, was in a animated discussion with a young man who looked like an athlete. As I walked to get a receipt, I heard somewhat loudly, "If you want your NIL........". The adult saw people were listening, lowered his voice, and stepped behind the open door of his vehicle. The young looking athlete, perhaps, was in an expensive, high powered car that would be a nightmare to in$ure. They were still in discussion when we left. I bet balancing/managing the locker room is not easy in today's NIL, most anything goes world.

[Commercecomet24]

I know who you are talking about.

They built the Big screen .

Yeah and after they sold the company they really flush cash wise.

[PikeDawg15]

The flip side of this is that if our non-big 3 were all doing poorly, people would add that to piling on the AD about how poorly managed things are. To me, as an athletic department, it is important to make sure all sports are healthy and not just the revenue sports.

Return on Investment.

Football and basketball will get you the best return on investment

Kentucky's basketball program has generated so much money that now you are seeing that effect football.

Those 2 sports pay the bills for everyone else. You have to maximize your profit margin, LSU is good at all sports, even gymnastics. All at national title levels, maybe not basketball but you get the point.

If you go all in on football, that gives you the opportunity to make more money to give to the other sports. Like Alabama, Kentucky, and LSU do for their athletic programs

[Commercecomet24]

I am going to be very generic in posting my recent observation of an "NIL" discussion.

My son and I were getting gas at a Starkville location on a weeknight before the KY game. An adult who looked to be connected to our program perhaps, was in a animated discussion with a young man who looked like an athlete. As I walked to get a receipt, I heard somewhat loudly, "If you want your NIL........". The adult saw people were listening, lowered his voice, and stepped behind the open door of his vehicle. The young looking athlete, perhaps, was in an expensive, high powered car that would be a nightmare to in$ure. They were still in discussion when we left. I bet balancing/managing the locker room is not easy in today's NIL, most anything goes world.

It's the Wild West for sure and with young people and their egos it's gotta be a nightmare for a program

[Goldendawg]

As much as we love it, I have been told that our baseball program does not make a profit, true? I have always been told football and men's basketball pay the bills for other sports.

[PikeDawg15]

As much as we love it, I have been told that our baseball program does not make a profit, true? I have always been told football and men's basketball pay the bills for other sports.

Bingo.

You can win national titles and still make football #1. See other schools. Even one in our own state.

[WhiskeyPirate]

That’s why you have to recruit good character. Some of these guys would be impossible to coach after they get a check for 800k at 18 years old.

[Todd4State]

As much as we love it, I have been told that our baseball program does not make a profit, true? I have always been told football and men's basketball pay the bills for other sports.

My guess is it depends on the season. If we're building a bunch of new things like a stadium- maybe not. If you're looking at the athletic department bottom line- maybe some years and maybe not others. If you're looking at residual profit from exposure and selling merchandise and things like that which MSU profits from but may not show up in the AD bottom line- they probably do make money.

[Todd4State]

Yeah people say that a lot but In fact we're not poor at all. I've got 2(we outbid 2 other sec schools)of my former players on the team and they're doing just fine monetarily and luckily I've been privy to know some of the deals that are going on.Trust me they can afford the newest iPhone lol.

I think the issue is MSU doesn't know how to spend the money or where to spend the money or where to invest it rather than "doesn't have it".

Our athletic department could easily devote a lot more funds to football recruiting. And with those funds increase staff and place more emphasis on it.

And at the same time I think not having a truly structured "Network" has hurt us with NIL as far as getting it off the ground. MSU's whole attitude has been to hope someone heads up- and thankfully for us Charlie Winfield has stepped up in a major way. I do think we'll get there with NIL- but it's going to be a longer row to hoe for us than others.

It's even completely different from the old days because now we can get corporations or ex football players involved that are in the NFL. It's not just individual boosters.

[Commercecomet24]

I think the issue is MSU doesn't know how to spend the money or where to spend the money or where to invest it rather than "doesn't have it".

Our athletic department could easily devote a lot more funds to football recruiting. And with those funds increase staff and place more emphasis on it.

And at the same time I think not having a truly structured "Network" has hurt us with NIL as far as getting it off the ground. MSU's whole attitude has been to hope someone heads up- and thankfully for us Charlie Winfield has stepped up in a major way. I do think we'll get there with NIL- but it's going to be a longer row to hoe for us than others.

It's even completely different from the old days because now we can get corporations or ex football players involved that are in the NFL. It's not just individual boosters.

Good post.

[BrunswickDawg]

Return on Investment.

Football and basketball will get you the best return on investment

Kentucky's basketball program has generated so much money that now you are seeing that effect football.

Those 2 sports pay the bills for everyone else. You have to maximize your profit margin, LSU is good at all sports, even gymnastics. All at national title levels, maybe not basketball but you get the point.

If you go all in on football, that gives you the opportunity to make more money to give to the other sports. Like Alabama, Kentucky, and LSU do for their athletic programs

I'm not saying that we should start over funding non- rev sports to chase titles or that winning the soccer SEC/Natty is a cure for football woes - I'm simply saying a) people easily dismiss them when they can be a measuring stick for good/bad decision making, and b) when they suck, people would be sure to use that as a black mark against the admin.

[Todd4State]

Some may say that's a pipe dream. Maybe it is.

But if that's the goal, then you have to be able to beat Bama. So how do you beat Bama? There's really only 2 ways. A) Recruit like UGA, Clemson, A&M or B) High speed tempo, mobile QB, and an offense that can go down the field like Ole Miss under Freeze, UT this year, or AU under Malzahn.

We can't do A. So it seems to me the only option is B.

Just food for thought.

I think we're trying. I also think we don't know how.

MSU's attitude has long been try to get some football genius whether is was Mullen, Joe, or Leach and try to take our "overlooked" and "raw" players and try to basically out scheme everyone.

The reality is it is more about players than scheme- and therefore for MSU it needs to be more about recruiting and increasing that aspect of our program. If we can add 2-3 more four star players a class it would help us out significantly.

[Todd4State]

Our current athletic administration is only about winning baseball titles. If we win other titles or do well in other sports, it?s due to the coach doing it in spite of the athletic administration.

You can criticize them for other sports but at least we have excelled in baseball except for last year. Including winning a National Championship. 2016-2021 was the best five year stretch in MSU baseball history thus far and our program is set up very well long term. It's going to pay off for not only MSU baseball but other MSU sports for a long time. We're about to see a lot of former Diamond Dawgs in MLB. Once they get their "big contract" it's going to have a massive impact on NIL and not just for baseball.

[Commercecomet24]

I think we're trying. I also think we don't know how.

MSU's attitude has long been try to get some football genius whether is was Mullen, Joe, or Leach and try to take our "overlooked" and "raw" players and try to basically out scheme everyone.

The reality is it is more about players than scheme- and therefore for MSU it needs to be more about recruiting and increasing that aspect of our program. If we can add 2-3 more four star players a class it would help us out significantly.

Yeah those om teams, auburn teams and now ut, had those schemes and coaches but they also had top 10 recruiting classes to go along with it. It just about always comes down to talent on the field to be consistently successful against the elites. Type of offense can only take you so far without the talent

[WhiskeyPirate]

I think the issue is MSU doesn't know how to spend the money or where to spend the money or where to invest it rather than "doesn't have it".

Our athletic department could easily devote a lot more funds to football recruiting. And with those funds increase staff and place more emphasis on it.

And at the same time I think not having a truly structured "Network" has hurt us with NIL as far as getting it off the ground. MSU's whole attitude has been to hope someone heads up- and thankfully for us Charlie Winfield has stepped up in a major way. I do think we'll get there with NIL- but it's going to be a longer row to hoe for us than others.

It's even completely different from the old days because now we can get corporations or ex football players involved that are in the NFL. It's not just individual boosters.

To add to that, I looked at UKs recruiting budget, it’s double ours. Arkansas became the first school to have an administrative position created to oversee NIL deals/funding. This isn’t on the coach’s, this is the Administration dropping the ball. Sec program wealth by school and recruiting budget, the bottom three are vandy, Missouri, MSU.

[dawgday166]

Simmons got 6 figures to come to State. We aint poor.

He also lived in MS right down the road. So did Fletcher & Chris Jones. We haven't had those kinds of Dlinemen in MS last few years. And we rarely have those types of Olinemen.

For some reason DLs seem to prefer State. WRs & RBs seem to prefer OM. I dunno why but that's the way it appears to me. Do we refuse to outbid OM for those skill players?

[PikeDawg15]

I think we're trying. I also think we don't know how.

MSU's attitude has long been try to get some football genius whether is was Mullen, Joe, or Leach and try to take our "overlooked" and "raw" players and try to basically out scheme everyone.

The reality is it is more about players than scheme- and therefore for MSU it needs to be more about recruiting and increasing that aspect of our program. If we can add 2-3 more four star players a class it would help us out significantly.

I think the future for us is the transfer portal.

If we can consistently get stud former 5 star receivers in this system, we would improve massively. Leach needs those receivers badly because the ones we have right now are not as good as advertised outside of Rara Thomas

Jaden Walley has been the biggest dissapointment since 2020. Thought he was going to be an absolute Stud for us.

We need to move from being between 25-30 in recruiting rankings and get inside the top 20. Like you said a few more 4 stars will help drastically.

But if im spurrier jr, Im going to try to get those A&M 5 star transfer receivers that are sick of playing in that offense to starkville at all costs, They have some amazing receivers that are being wasted. They had 1 receiver that was bullying alabamas DB's, he is amazing and is a true freshman

[Commercecomet24]

He also lived in MS right down the road. So did Fletcher & Chris Jones. We hadn't those kinds of Dlinemen in MS last few years. And we rarely have those types of Olinemen.

For some reason DLs seem to prefer State. WRs & RBs seem to prefer OM. I dunno why but that's the way it appears to me. Do we refuse to outbid OM for WRs?

Actually we've pretty much always gotten the better rbs. Wr you are right about though.

[PikeDawg15]

He also lived in MS right down the road. So did Fletcher & Chris Jones. We hadn't those kinds of Dlinemen in MS last few years. And we rarely have those types of Olinemen.

For some reason DLs seem to prefer State. WRs & RBs seem to prefer OM. I dunno why but that's the way it appears to me. Do we refuse to outbid OM for WRs?

Mostly had been the offense, Mullen's offense never attracted big time wide receivers because it was a qb run offense.

We have had some good defensive players recently but the 5 stars have left the state and gone to alabama and georgia.

Nakobe dean and jaheim oatis for example.

Under no circumstance should we have not paid jaheim oatis, dude is starting at bama. But thats why he went.

[Todd4State]

Yeah those om teams, auburn teams and now ut, had those schemes and coaches but they also had top 10 recruiting classes to go along with it. It just about always comes down to talent on the field to be consistently successful against the elites. Type of offense can only take you so far without the talent

Yes! Which makes the "we need to pass the ball or run the ball x amount of times" arguments fruitless. Much more about who is throwing the ball and who is running it as opposed to who is coaching it.

If MSU is smart we'll hire a really good recruiter who is charismatic like a Beamer or a Coach O or a Pittman- in my mind I think I would probably hire Spurrier, Jr. and maybe even take a run at Beamer given is wife's ties to MSU- keep running the Air Raid on offense to keep continuity and limit turnover and hire someone off of the Leach tree as OC and then hire the best DC we can find while hiring elite recruiters at the other positions. I'll even add hire the best special teams coach we can find too.

I'm also keeping an eye on Judge's career and Godwin at Clemson. For the first time in forever it seems like we have some actual connections in college football for a change that may be good fits for us.

[Goldendawg]

He also lived in MS right down the road. So did Fletcher & Chris Jones. We hadn't those kinds of Dlinemen in MS last few years. And we rarely have those types of Olinemen.

For some reason DLs seem to prefer State. WRs & RBs seem to prefer OM. I dunno why but that's the way it appears to me. Do we refuse to outbid OM for WRs?

OM has sent a number of high profile WR's to the league since the Freeze years. MS HS WR's know this and have watched it growing up the last few years. The air raid has yet to attract a true 4 star WR unless he is a transfer (correct me if I am wrong). It will take winning to change this, not just throwing 60 times a game. We also used to be known for some very good RB's.

[Todd4State]

Mostly had been the offense, Mullen's offense never attracted big time wide receivers because it was a qb run offense.

We have had some good defensive players recently but the 5 stars have left the state and gone to alabama and georgia.

Nakobe dean and jaheim oatis for example.

Under no circumstance should we have not paid jaheim oatis, dude is starting at bama. But thats why he went.

Not just Mullen- Croom, Jackie, Felker, Emory, Tyler and probably Shira...ALL run first coaches. Really hard to break that- but Leach is doing it.

[dawgday166]

Hell, Beamer in Y2 at SC is 5-2 and looking at least 7 wins

And he'll probably be about the same next year too. We'll see.


He was NY6 in Y2. What were we in Y2?

I guess you'll be winning State championship next year then, or at least in semis, at your school with all those young players you got, which is why you say y'all are struggling this year. "Takes time to install an offense with young players" or something similar is what I remember you saying.

[Todd4State]

OM has sent a number of high profile WR's to the league since the Freeze years. MS HS WR's know this and have watched it growing up the last few years. The air raid has yet to attract a true 4 star WR unless he is a transfer (correct me if I am wrong). It will take winning to change this, not just throwing 60 times a game. We also used to be known for some very good RB's.

Antonio Harmon, Marquez Dortch, and I'm pretty sure Tulu and Xavion Thomas were four stars. Creed Whitmore is a four star as well. It's a start.

[Commercecomet24]

Antonio Harmon, Marquez Dortch, and I'm pretty sure Tulu and Xavion Thomas were four stars. Creed Whitmore is a four star as well. It's a start.

Walley was a 4 star as well.

[dawgday166]

Antonio Harmon, Marquez Dortch, and I'm pretty sure Tulu and Xavion Thomas were four stars. Creed Whitmore is a four star as well. It's a start.


Walley was a 4 star and Harmon maybe as well.

We're starting to get them but those are true Fr and Soph except Walley.

[WhiskeyPirate]

Antonio Harmon, Marquez Dortch, and I'm pretty sure Tulu and Xavion Thomas were four stars. Creed Whitmore is a four star as well. It's a start.

We will always be able to get good skill guys, Qb rb wr , the only rate limiting factor is nil money. A 5 star wr isn’t going to turn down the cash just because he like our offense, and that isn’t on our recruiters either, it’s $$$

[Goldendawg]

Antonio Harmon, Marquez Dortch, and I'm pretty sure Tulu and Xavion Thomas were four stars. Creed Whitmore is a four star as well. It's a start.

Thanks, I remember that now. They are all young except Tulu, kinda. Maybe this will show positive results in the near future, 2023 and beyond. Hail State!

[Commercecomet24]

We're starting to get them but those are true Fr and Soph except Walley.

Yep it's a process.

[Goldendawg]

Commerce,as you know, we have always played the recruiting game, just not as big or good as others, as we have often seemed to get caught and put on probation when we got good and didn't "stay in our place". An example from many, many moons ago, no names or dates. A relative of mine and several associates took a very good prospect to get him a new car. He picked out a loaded LTD. One "booster", said, Y'all gonna let him have that car?" Another punched him in the side and said, "Shut up. They're unloading a new gold Thunderbird in the back and he didn't see it!" NCAA was told by one of many of his family members, he was the first of the family to go to college and they all pitched in to get him a nice car to attend. Nothing came of it. Seems kinda PG now in our NC-17, NIL, Wild, Wild West of a recruiting world today. Think Statute of Limitations is out on this today. Hail State!

[WhiskeyPirate]

Where the challenge is, and probably the most important is building an O line that can handle good sec D lines. That is a 4 year process with redshirts. Handpicked kids Leach and Miller can develop into good pass blockers. That Crockett kid from Tennessee is one. The two from Miss in the 23 class may be. Leach made the comment early on when asked the biggest differences in the sec from the big 12 and the pac 12 was the defensive line talent.

[dawgday166]

Actually we've pretty much always gotten the better rbs. Wr you are right about though.

I wouldn't disagree, at least they were after they got to campus. Seems like OM got the more highly rated ones in last 7 or so years I think ... without looking it up. Not sure tho.

[Commercecomet24]

Commerce,as you know, we have always played the recruiting game, just not as big or good as others, as we have often seemed to get caught and put on probation when we got good and didn't "stay in our place". An example from many, many moons ago, no names or dates. A relative of mine and several associates took a very good prospect to get him a new car. He picked out a loaded LTD. One "booster", said, Y'all gonna let him have that car?" Another punched him in the side and said, "Shut up. They're unloading a new gold Thunderbird in the back and he didn't see it!" NCAA was told by one of many of his family members, he was the first of the family to go to college and they all pitched in to get him a nice car to attend. Nothing came of it. Seems kinda PG now in our NC-17, NIL, Wild, Wild West of a recruiting world today. Think Statute of Limitations is out on this today. Hail State!

Dead on accurate. Now it's pretty much all legal

[Goldendawg]

Where the challenge is, and probably the most important is building an O line that can handle good sec D lines. That is a 4 year process with redshirts. Handpicked kids Leach and Miller can develop into good pass blockers. That Crockett kid from Tennessee is one. The two from Miss in the 23 class may be. Leach made the comment early on when asked the biggest differences in the sec from the big 12 and the pac 12 was the defensive line talent.

We have a lot of young middle to high 3's OL on campus the last two years, good size and length. Hope they develop into studs.

[Goldendawg]

Dead on accurate. Now it's pretty much all legal

Read a story of how OK(?) got Anthony Dickerson a new Trans AM which he kept and went to SMU anyway. Some schools are going to get burned today or in the future on NIL and transfers if they haven't already.

[WhiskeyPirate]

Lucas Taylor 6-5 315 freshman has a mean streak I think he’s going to be good

Reese is 6-7 320 redshirt freshman, not ready yet but coaches have made the comment he’s an nfl player. Physically he’s a monster.

Lahue 6-5 310 freshman out of Texas, should develop,into a good player.

Crockett is is 2023 will be good.

That line should be good in a couple of years if we can add a few more.

[Matt3467]

Mississippi did.
Mizzou
UPig
Baylor
Fla St
Memphis

We werent the Lone Ranger

Om: 5-5
AR: 3-7
Baylor: 2-7
FSU: 3-6
Mizz: 5-5
MSU: 4-7
Memphis: 8-3 the only outlier of the teams you mentioned. They also didn't play an all SEC schedule and Norvell left the new HC a 12-2 team.

Looks like we were right in the middle of the pack with new HC success in 2020. Cut Leach some slack. Better yet don't even equate 2020 into how you evaluate his performance so far. It's just not fair and you should know it.

[Todd4State]

Walley was a 4 star as well.

Oh? I missed that.

[Todd4State]

We're starting to get them but those are true Fr and Soph except Walley.


We will always be able to get good skill guys, Qb rb wr , the only rate limiting factor is nil money. A 5 star wr isn’t going to turn down the cash just because he like our offense, and that isn’t on our recruiters either, it’s $$$


Thanks, I remember that now. They are all young except Tulu, kinda. Maybe this will show positive results in the near future, 2023 and beyond. Hail State!

It's going to take a couple of years but we're overcoming literally 100 years when it comes to WR.

Whiskey- we're going to have to overpay for WR's in Mississippi that are highly rated especially in the metro area. There are some trainers that are not MSU friendly and it will take even more effort to get in state receivers to come to MSU because of that. Ole Miss loves their "flash" that WR's generally have so they're willing to overpay for it.

Recruiters are part of it too. They identify the talent and then the NIL is offered from there.

[Todd4State]

We have a lot of young middle to high 3's OL on campus the last two years, good size and length. Hope they develop into studs.

Miller does a great job. I have no concerns with him. And unlike Hevesy he actually fills spots.

[Cooterpoot]

We've got the fewest 4 star commits in the SEC outside a couple usual suspects. Last year was a decent class. Year before wasnt good. We won't get better with one decent class in 3 years. We need this year to get rolling and hit on some portal. But we won't bench our problems or play any young guys either so there's that. We're miserably slow as a team.
Our MS recruiting needs to improve. We drag our feet too much.

[WhiskeyPirate]

It's going to take a couple of years but we're overcoming literally 100 years when it comes to WR.

Whiskey- we're going to have to overpay for WR's in Mississippi that are highly rated especially in the metro area. There are some trainers that are not MSU friendly and it will take even more effort to get in state receivers to come to MSU because of that. Ole Miss loves their "flash" that WR's generally have so they're willing to overpay for it.

Recruiters are part of it too. They identify the talent and then the NIL is offered from there.

Leach doesn’t need Mississippi for wide receivers, he has a national draw there. He’s recruiting Alabama, Carolinas, Florida, georgia, Tennessee, Texas mainly. Same goes for q b and r b.

Mississippi I see as more of the defensive side of the ball, and those players ranked 5 through 25 fit the 3-3-5 well.

[dawgday166]

We've got the fewest 4 star commits in the SEC outside a couple usual suspects. Last year was a decent class. Year before wasnt good. We won't get better with one decent class in 3 years. We need this year to get rolling and hit on some portal. But we won't bench our problems or play any young guys either so there's that. We're miserably slow as a team.
Our MS recruiting needs to improve. We drag our feet too much.

Not saying all that ain't true and I agree with you. But I will add ...
"Alex, I'll take the 2011 class for $200".

Seems like so far we're recruiting about like 2010 thru 2014. This year ain't done yet. Not sure but I believe I recall a pretty decent closing effort last year. I'm sure you know more about what irons this year we do or don't have in the fire.

Which gets back to the point I've been discussing. Gotta see how Leach and the staff develop players, which takes a little bit of time.

[Todd4State]

Leach doesn’t need Mississippi for wide receivers, he has a national draw there. He’s recruiting Alabama, Carolinas, Florida, georgia, Tennessee, Texas mainly. Same goes for q b and r b.

Mississippi I see as more of the defensive side of the ball, and those players ranked 5 through 25 fit the 3-3-5 well.

We need to take what we can out of Mississippi and then fill in the gaps with our of state guys.

There is plenty of wide receiver talent in the state. I don't think we should just simply concede it or just rely on out of state talent.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

If you make football the #1 priority it helps baseball as well. MSU Football with Mullen had as much to do with getting the New Dude built as anything. The more success of football the better the other sports

[was21]

Maybe if three or four turned him down, maybe it WAS an indictment of Cohen. Maybe they just didn't want to work for him.

[Lord McBuckethead]

No good coach needs 5 years with an open door transfer policy we have today. Thats just dumb. How long did it take Lame at Mississippi? 2 years. How long did it take Heup? 2 years

Actually in year 1 or 2, Lane was challenging Saban. Hell, he may beat them this year with vastly inferior talent across the board. I wouldn't put it past them.

[BrunswickDawg]

Actually in year 1 or 2, Lane was challenging Saban. Hell, he may beat them this year with vastly inferior talent across the board. I wouldn't put it past them.

Is losing 63-48 and 42-21 (Bama was up 42-7 until 2 garbage time TDs) really challenging Saban? They've scored points. They've gotten hype, so I guess it's good enough.

[Saltydog]

We actually beat them in '96 too..........The Bama Tri-Fecta (96, 97, 98)..........

[WhiskeyPirate]

We need to take what we can out of Mississippi and then fill in the gaps with our of state guys.

There is plenty of wide receiver talent in the state. I don't think we should just simply concede it or just rely on out of state talent.

Yea if there?s a wr there, but honestly I don?t think it matters too much. They have a bunch of guys on their board and just get the best ones they can. I think lineman and defense is where we get in state guys.

[Coach34]

Om: 5-5
AR: 3-7
Baylor: 2-7
FSU: 3-6
Mizz: 5-5
MSU: 4-7
Memphis: 8-3 the only outlier of the teams you mentioned. They also didn't play an all SEC schedule and Norvell left the new HC a 12-2 team.

Looks like we were right in the middle of the pack with new HC success in 2020. Cut Leach some slack. Better yet don't even equate 2020 into how you evaluate his performance so far. It's just not fair and you should know it.

You totally missed the point. Since each coach took over:

Leach 16-16...9-14 in the SEC
Aranda 18-12....11-11
Kiffin 22-9...13-8
Pittman 16-14...8-14
Drinkwitz 14-16...9-13
Silverfield 18-13...10-11

and then you have Norvell who has a losing record and possibly on the chopping block

We werent the only school that hired a new coach in 2020

[Coach34]

I guess you'll be winning State championship next year then, or at least in semis, at your school with all those young players you got, which is why you say y'all are struggling this year. "Takes time to install an offense with young players" or something similar is what I remember you saying.

We will be significantly better next season with 10 starters returning on O and 9 on D. Being a 2A and playing 2 5A's and three 4A's wasnt the smartest of scheduling from a wins standpoint but does help with playoff positioning as Louisiana factors in SOS when determining playoff teams.

[Percho]

Fire the AD, fire the Coach, fire, fire, fire.

Maybe y'all should fire yourselves because it looks to me as if the ones buying players are buying the wrong players!

[Percho]

Is losing 63-48 and 42-21 (Bama was up 42-7 until 2 garbage time TDs) really challenging Saban? They've scored points. They've gotten hype, so I guess it's good enough.

moral victory's = Challening

[Ezsoil]

Fire the AD, fire the Coach, fire, fire, fire.

Maybe y'all should fire yourselves because it looks to me as if the ones buying players are buying the wrong players!

This is the correct take

[ImissCityBagel]

Talent is crucial but not everything.
I wouldn't be surprised if A&M is the worst team in the West these next few years.

[R2Dawg]

5 years or more - Jackie took 8 and there were a ton of dumbasses clamoring to fire him in '95 & '96 and wanting to hire Bobby Wallace. The big thing is we can't be reactionary and have to make good decisions based on more than just wins in a single season or record against Ole Miss.

Jackie had us winning and competing immediately when he took over a dead program. Apples and oranges compared to now. Yes some were putting heat but Wallace had just won 3 NC in a row too and had interest. Even with a few bumps in first 5 years Jackie put talent and competitive teams on the field. Had NC Bama beat in 92 but a late Barker comeback happened. It was Bamas toughest game that year.

[Cooterpoot]

We will be significantly better next season with 10 starters returning on O and 9 on D. Being a 2A and playing 2 5A's and three 4A's wasnt the smartest of scheduling from a wins standpoint but does help with playoff positioning as Louisiana factors in SOS when determining playoff teams.

We won't have that many returning. SOS is guaranteeing 8 wins.

[Coach34]

We won't have that many returning. SOS is guaranteeing 8 wins.

He asked me about my HS team and I was referring to them- not State

[FISHDAWG]

Yeah we've got a couple of very wealthy ones right here in Jones county(they have names on buildings) Yeah unfortunately if you don't pay you can't compete at all. It's a dirty business for sure.

Yeah the not paying Cam thing was a bad bad miss.

And one is the largest employer in the state ... you're right... and thanks BH lol
I've actually been in his office before... he used to and maybe still does buy an entire section of seating

[Todd4State]

Jackie had us winning and competing immediately when he took over a dead program. Apples and oranges compared to now. Yes some were putting heat but Wallace had just won 3 NC in a row too and had interest. Even with a few bumps in first 5 years Jackie put talent and competitive teams on the field. Had NC Bama beat in 92 but a late Barker comeback happened. It was Bamas toughest game that year.

Felker recruited most of those players in 91-92. Then we had a small lull, and a really good 1994 season followed by another small lull and then went on a nice run from 1996-2000.

Jackie took over a good situation, but he really didn't make the program "his" until 1996.

[Commercecomet24]

Felker recruited most of those players in 91-92. Then we had a small lull, and a really good 1994 season followed by another small lull and then went on a nice run from 1996-2000.

Jackie took over a good situation, but he really didn't make the program "his" until 1996.

Yeah people forget Rockey recruited well, he just wasn't a good head coach. I love Jackie but Rockey left him with players. Jackie had those few years after the first couple where he struggled but built it back up and would've kept building if om hadnt screwed him and us. I always didn't like om but what they did to Jackie made me hate them!

[Todd4State]

Yeah people forget Rockey recruited well, he just wasn't a good head coach. I love Jackie but Rockey left him with players. Jackie had those few years after the first couple where he struggled but built it back up and would've kept building if om hadnt screwed him and us. I always didn't like om but what they did to Jackie made me hate them!

Felker actually was the forerunner to the Sam Pittman/Coach O model. The biggest thing is he didn't always have the elite coordinators to go with it. If he had been able to keep Jim Carmody and Steve Logan his entire tenure we could have been cooking with gas.

I was pissed at LT for not backing up Jackie. What happened to Jackie then could and would have been avoided today and maybe then if we had a spine. Oh well- what goes around comes around- and Ole Miss got to experience that with Hugh Freeze.

[Todd4State]

Talent is crucial but not everything.
I wouldn't be surprised if A&M is the worst team in the West these next few years.

I think part of the reason this is coming out is so A&M can eventually fire Jimbo "for cause" and reduce the buyout.

Not much different than MSU firing Joe Moorhead after the Garrett Shrader/Willie Gay incident.

[Maroonthirteen]

We under achieved in 93. We lost Sleepy and Watson Brown. However we had a passing QB back his senior year and Bruce Arians. Obviously we switched to a pro style offense and Jordan was named QB. I heard from a good source then some players wanted Plump to be QB1. Anyways...

We ran into a very good Memphis team to open the season. We couldn't stop Isaac Bruce that night. Then Jackie went with a 1A and 1B QB (Jordan/Taite) rotation for some reason in the next game vs LSU. We lost 16-18. So it was a tough start and the wheels fell off. It was a fine line that year to 3-6-2 to 7-4.

1995 was odd too. We lost a lot of players after 94 but still had Taite and Moulds on offense. However that 1995 team had some downers that shouldn't have been.