Have we underachieved or overachieved more

[Cowbell]

Legitimate question. Curious everyone's takes.
I only know of one game that I feel like we have really overachieved the last two years. We have lost 5-6 games we shouldn't have.

[msu15]

We have underachieved since Leach has been here. We should've went 7-3 in 2020 yet instead went 3-7 in the regular season. We should've went 11-1 in the regular season last year yet went 7-5. We should be 7-0 right now yet we are 5-2. If we finish 7-5 again this year with another Egg Bowl loss......Leach's seat will be on fire.

[Catfish]

We have underachieved since Leach has been here. We should've went 7-3 in 2020 yet instead went 3-7 in the regular season. We should've went 11-1 in the regular season last year yet went 7-5. We should be 7-0 right now yet we are 5-2. If we finish 7-5 again this year with another Egg Bowl loss......Leach's seat will be on fire.

11-1 last year. Are you serious?

[PikeDawg15]

We have underachieved since Leach has been here. We should've went 7-3 in 2020 yet instead went 3-7 in the regular season. We should've went 11-1 in the regular season last year yet went 7-5. We should be 7-0 right now yet we are 5-2. If we finish 7-5 again this year with another Egg Bowl loss......Leach's seat will be on fire.

I?ll throw 2020 in the damn trash.

2021 we should?ve been 8-4.

This year we should?ve been 9-3


Honestly screw the records . Why is it when we lose our players and coaches look absolutely HORRIBLE and clueless

If we were losing 41-31 or 28-21 it?s whatever but damn . It?s not even fun to watch us on offense at all.

When we are bad WE ARE BAD

2020 Georgia , 2020 ole miss , 2021 Arkansas , 2021 memphis

Are the only losses I can remember where we looked competent on both sides of the ball but just got beat.

Every other time outside of the bama ass whoopings is just us looking completely unaware that we had a football game today instead of a commercial to shoot for a pretzel stick.

[Commercecomet24]

11-1 last year. Are you serious?

Yeah and 7-3 in 2020 with a new coach and no spring practice and limited fall practice. We got some wild stuff flying on here this weekend(both ways),

[Catfish]

Yeah and 7-3 in 2020 with a new coach and no spring practice and limited fall practice. We got some wild stuff flying on here this weekend(both ways),

Sometimes I think they should shut this board down for a couple of days after a loss or a win. Let everyone mellow out. I'm as guilty as everyone else.

[PikeDawg15]

Yeah and 7-3 in 2020 with a new coach and no spring practice and limited fall practice. We got some wild stuff flying on here this weekend(both ways),

Yeah I?m being very critical of things currently but that?s ridiculous.

3-7 is whatever but that 3-7 was mostly unwatchable .

Outside of a few games.

[Commercecomet24]

Sometimes I think they should shut this board down for a couple of days after a loss or a win. Let everyone mellow out. I'm as guilty as everyone else.

And I find it strange that there's way more threads after a loss than a win and there's posters that disappear after we win and then reappear after we lose. Interesting stuff

[Commercecomet24]

Yeah I?m being very critical of things currently but that?s ridiculous.

3-7 is whatever but that 3-7 was mostly unwatchable .

Outside of a few games.

You're right about that lot of stinkers that year but 2020 was more like a whole season of spring practice. It was an odd year in a lot of ways.

[Catfish]

And I find it strange that there's way more threads after a loss than a win and there's posters that disappear after we win and then reappear after we lose. Interesting stuff

Yup, some have an agenda and some just want to pile on. It's like they're peeking around the corner all week for the right time to come out. Closet dressers.

[Cowbell]

You're right about that lot of stinkers that year but 2020 was more like a whole season of spring practice. It was an odd year in a lot of ways.

Yeah that's why I threw out 2020.

Joe left us in a dumpster fire.

[dawgday166]

11-1 last year. Are you serious?

So 7-3 in an all-Sec schedule minus a bunch of Covid players in 2020 and 11-1 last year. Either he's smoking some serious shit or he 17ing with us.

[Catfish]

So 7-3 in an all-Sec schedule minus a bunch of Covid players in 2020 and 11-1 last year. Either he's smoking some serious shit or he 17ing with us.

LOL

[Commercecomet24]

Yeah that's why I threw out 2020.

Joe left us in a dumpster fire.

Yeah it was a freaking mess. We played most of the year with 45-50 players because of covid and leach cleaning house. And our big time rb** quit on us

[Commercecomet24]

So 7-3 in an all-Sec schedule minus a bunch of Covid players in 2020 and 11-1 last year. Either he's smoking some serious shit or he 17ing with us.

Or both lol!

Wish I could give you more rep!

[Quaoarsking]

Overachieved under Leach. Ed O, Jimbo (2x), and Harsin had no business losing to us given the talent differential, but Leach's coaching and scheme turned 4 losses into wins.

Morehead obviously goes 0-4 in those games, and Mullen probably just gets the 1 over A&M at home. To be fair, Mullen doesn't lose to Memphis last year and probably wins another 1-2 in 2020, so he and Leach are close to even.

[vindastra]

Overachieved!!!

The cupboard is/has been bare for many years now and we are still maintaining our win-loss ratio.

[Todd4State]

Right now I would say it's similar to Jackie's tenure. We have more memorable wins every year- LSU 2020, Auburn 2021, Texas A&M 2021, and we'll see what 2022 brings. At the same time we have some bad losses too- Arkansas 2020 was painful and Memphis last year stand out as well as some of the Egg Bowl losses.

Last night was more about our teams focus than anything than scheme or talent. Which confuses me given our recent performances up there. It's like our players never learn and can only perform when they are doubted. Oh and our QB simply needs to relax and play. When he does that it looks like A&M and Arkansas. When he doesn't it looks like LSU and Kentucky. That's way more of a problem with Will than his arm strength or mobility.

[Todd4State]

Overachieved!!!

The cupboard is/has been bare for many years now and we are still maintaining our win-loss ratio.

I think for a little while we had a bad mix of Dan's lack of recruiting and Joe's bad culture. I do think Leach is correcting those things. Just short term disappointed in this team for last night. Poor focus has been an issue for many years with multiple coaches.

I think we can potentially be very special next year with the right portal moves. Hopefully the staff has the foresight to see that.

[BrunswickDawg]

Yeah that's why I threw out 2020.

Joe left us in a dumpster fire.

We would have been 0-10 or had to have shut down the season under Moorhead. No way he maintains any semblance of control during COVID.

Back to the overall question. Since 2005, our Athletic Department has had an expense budget regularly below the FBS Median until 2014. We are now comfortably above that by $35 million annually ($96m in expenditures in '21).
At the same time, we are still $28 million below the median SEC athletic expenditures.https://knightnewhousedata.org/fbs/sec/mississippi-state-university#!quicktabs-tab-where_the_money-1

For football, from 2005-2015 we tracked at roughly the FBS Median in Football Spending. In '21, we spent $23m on football, comfortably above the FBS Median of $16m but significantly below the SEC Median of $36m. That gap has been roughly the same % wise since 2005.

So, athletically and football specifically we are essentially middle of the pack in spending. In the SEC, we are bottom quarter.
Based on that, I'd say we Overachieve significantly. We should be dead last in the West in football - and likely every sport - based on what we spend.
Instead, we are a consistent 7 win football program over the past decade, and have been .500 in the SEC (including right now) 6 of the past 10 years. We have been to 12 straight bowls (discount it all you want, but only a handful of teams nationally have done that or more) and will go to a 13th. This is in spite of the coaching churn since 2018. In the past decade we are 5-5 against Auburn, 7-3 against Arkansas, 6-4 against Kentucky, 4-6 against OM, 6-4 against A&M, and 5-5 against the East Rotation. Probably our best SEC run since the 1930s/40s.

Outside of football, we have a Top 5 baseball program in the country (overachieve); men's basketball has been winning, and been a consistent bubble bursted team. That sucks - but is still likely overachieving based on spending. Women's basketball vastly overachieved, now unknown. Women's golf was #1 in the fall of 2014, is consistently in the NCAA tourney, and is currently in the Top 5 (overachieve); Softball is consistently in the NCAA tourney in the toughest conference in the country (overachieve); Volleyball has gone from the worst program in the SEC to top 5 (overachieve); women's soccer has built an SEC contending program (overachieve); men's golf has been up an down, but typically makes postseason (push); Men's tennis has multiple SEC titles and has played for a natty (overachieve); women's tennis up and down (push); track and field consistently makes the NCAAs and has produced multiple NCAA individual champs (overachieve).

So yeah, MSU, in athletically the toughest conference in the country, as one of the poorest athletic departments in the SEC, in the poorest state in the Union that can't even provide water and trash service in the Capitol City - is punching well above its weight.

That being said - losing Saturday sucked. Losing to LSU sucked. Beating Arky and A&M felt pretty damn good. We still have half a season to play, and I'm going to keep enjoying it.

[Liverpooldawg]

I said 6-6 going in. We should make that. We have a decent shot of going one better, but we are still looking at 6-6 or 7-5 with three straight losses to Ole Miss. Oh well, this is what we signed up for when we hired Mike leach.

[Maverick91]

If you look at the program in a vacuum and remove the offensive overhaul in 2020 and the need to remove some malcontents as well we have woefully underperformed. I think we have over performed in winning games that we had no business coming back and winning.

I do think we are about where we should be with everything to consider being considered. My issue and i guess you can chalk this up to underperforming, this team showed they are mentally weak Saturday. We can say all we want about scheme and what not, but until we get right in the head scheme doesn?t really matter, especially since we have seen that our scheme can win at a high level.

[Tater]

Sometimes I think they should shut this board down for a couple of days after a loss or a win. Let everyone mellow out. I'm as guilty as everyone else.

Some people definitely should just take Sundays off.

I definitely did yesterday. Feel a lot more rational this morning.

If I was on here posting the shit I was saying person Saturday / Sunday then I'd be thought of as a top 5 fool of the weekend

(Note: I was saying I'm more confident we beat Alabama this week now. The scenario that causes me the most pain would be State going 9-2 into the Egg Bowl with Ole Miss at 10-1 with a loss to Alabama. Then we lay an Egg letting them get into the SECChamp. Why do I think that? Because that would cause me the most amount of pain as a fan. A 6-6/7-5 finish just tells me that Will isn't the answer. That 9-2 shit brings me hope. It sets me up for the worst case scenario. I really feel like we made a deal with the devil to get that 2021 Natty and are paying for it hand over fist.)

Now do I really think that? No. But emotionally it feels pretty likely. More realistically 8-4 is attainable. We still are owed one "WTF Leach?" win.

[Goldendawg]

I said 6-6 going in. We should make that. We have a decent shot of going one better, but we are still looking at 6-6 or 7-5 with three straight losses to Ole Miss. Oh well, this is what we signed up for when we hired Mike leach.

6-6 is a total disaster and under achieving at it's worse. That means one more victory for the season (ETU), a loss to an AU team in turmoil, and loss 3 in a row to OM. This in a year with the most returning starters in the SEC (talent issue, just a year older?). If that lone victory going forward is ETU, look for some big blowouts. 6-7 after a meaningless, no where bowl. 7-5 at least. Hail State!

[Maverick91]

We would have been 0-10 or had to have shut down the season under Moorhead. No way he maintains any semblance of control during COVID.

Back to the overall question. Since 2005, our Athletic Department has had an expense budget regularly below the FBS Median until 2014. We are now comfortably above that by $35 million annually ($96m in expenditures in '21).
At the same time, we are still $28 million below the median SEC athletic expenditures.https://knightnewhousedata.org/fbs/sec/mississippi-state-university#!quicktabs-tab-where_the_money-1

For football, from 2005-2015 we tracked at roughly the FBS Median in Football Spending. In '21, we spent $23m on football, comfortably above the FBS Median of $16m but significantly below the SEC Median of $36m. That gap has been roughly the same % wise since 2005.

So, athletically and football specifically we are essentially middle of the pack in spending. In the SEC, we are bottom quarter.
Based on that, I'd say we Overachieve significantly. We should be dead last in the West in football - and likely every sport - based on what we spend.
Instead, we are a consistent 7 win football program over the past decade, and have been .500 in the SEC (including right now) 6 of the past 10 years. We have been to 12 straight bowls (discount it all you want, but only a handful of teams nationally have done that or more) and will go to a 13th. This is in spite of the coaching churn since 2018. In the past decade we are 5-5 against Auburn, 7-3 against Arkansas, 6-4 against Kentucky, 4-6 against OM, 6-4 against A&M, and 5-5 against the East Rotation. Probably our best SEC run since the 1930s/40s.

Outside of football, we have a Top 5 baseball program in the country (overachieve); men's basketball has been winning, and been a consistent bubble bursted team. That sucks - but is still likely overachieving based on spending. Women's basketball vastly overachieved, now unknown. Women's golf was #1 in the fall of 2014, is consistently in the NCAA tourney, and is currently in the Top 5 (overachieve); Softball is consistently in the NCAA tourney in the toughest conference in the country (overachieve); Volleyball has gone from the worst program in the SEC to top 5 (overachieve); women's soccer has built an SEC contending program (overachieve); men's golf has been up an down, but typically makes postseason (push); Men's tennis has multiple SEC titles and has played for a natty (overachieve); women's tennis up and down (push); track and field consistently makes the NCAAs and has produced multiple NCAA individual champs (overachieve).

So yeah, MSU, in athletically the toughest conference in the country, as one of the poorest athletic departments in the SEC, in the poorest state in the Union that can't even provide water and trash service in the Capitol City - is punching well above its weight.

That being said - losing Saturday sucked. Losing to LSU sucked. Beating Arky and A&M felt pretty damn good. We still have half a season to play, and I'm going to keep enjoying it.

Thank you for the post!

I wish we could change whoever we need to to see if we just upped the football budget we could really start to change things for the whole university.

[Commercecomet24]

We would have been 0-10 or had to have shut down the season under Moorhead. No way he maintains any semblance of control during COVID.

Back to the overall question. Since 2005, our Athletic Department has had an expense budget regularly below the FBS Median until 2014. We are now comfortably above that by $35 million annually ($96m in expenditures in '21).
At the same time, we are still $28 million below the median SEC athletic expenditures.https://knightnewhousedata.org/fbs/sec/mississippi-state-university#!quicktabs-tab-where_the_money-1

For football, from 2005-2015 we tracked at roughly the FBS Median in Football Spending. In '21, we spent $23m on football, comfortably above the FBS Median of $16m but significantly below the SEC Median of $36m. That gap has been roughly the same % wise since 2005.

So, athletically and football specifically we are essentially middle of the pack in spending. In the SEC, we are bottom quarter.
Based on that, I'd say we Overachieve significantly. We should be dead last in the West in football - and likely every sport - based on what we spend.
Instead, we are a consistent 7 win football program over the past decade, and have been .500 in the SEC (including right now) 6 of the past 10 years. We have been to 12 straight bowls (discount it all you want, but only a handful of teams nationally have done that or more) and will go to a 13th. This is in spite of the coaching churn since 2018. In the past decade we are 5-5 against Auburn, 7-3 against Arkansas, 6-4 against Kentucky, 4-6 against OM, 6-4 against A&M, and 5-5 against the East Rotation. Probably our best SEC run since the 1930s/40s.

Outside of football, we have a Top 5 baseball program in the country (overachieve); men's basketball has been winning, and been a consistent bubble bursted team. That sucks - but is still likely overachieving based on spending. Women's basketball vastly overachieved, now unknown. Women's golf was #1 in the fall of 2014, is consistently in the NCAA tourney, and is currently in the Top 5 (overachieve); Softball is consistently in the NCAA tourney in the toughest conference in the country (overachieve); Volleyball has gone from the worst program in the SEC to top 5 (overachieve); women's soccer has built an SEC contending program (overachieve); men's golf has been up an down, but typically makes postseason (push); Men's tennis has multiple SEC titles and has played for a natty (overachieve); women's tennis up and down (push); track and field consistently makes the NCAAs and has produced multiple NCAA individual champs (overachieve).

So yeah, MSU, in athletically the toughest conference in the country, as one of the poorest athletic departments in the SEC, in the poorest state in the Union that can't even provide water and trash service in the Capitol City - is punching well above its weight.

That being said - losing Saturday sucked. Losing to LSU sucked. Beating Arky and A&M felt pretty damn good. We still have half a season to play, and I'm going to keep enjoying it.

Best post I've read in a long time and completely accurate! Thanks, Bruns!

Have some rep!

[Captain Falcon]

As others have said, you can?t take much at all from 2020. Too many out of the ordinary factors that season to be able to judge accurately.

We should?ve won 8 last year. It could?ve come from mostly anywhere, including the bowl game, and most would?ve viewed that year as a success. But we came up one win short. There was a lot to like about that team, just couldn?t get it done in some very specific instances.

We are pretty much exactly where I expected us to be this year. I had us at 5-2 after 7 games (presumably 5-3 after 8). My original prediction was 8-4 with an Egg Bowl win. I am admittedly less confident about that game now but could also see us doing something really weird like beating Georgia and then losing the Egg again anyway.

Schedule was too tough to expect more than 8-4 or 9-3, but I think 7-5 with a third straight EB loss would have many justifiably disappointed.

[R2Dawg]

I?ll throw 2020 in the damn trash.

2021 we should?ve been 8-4.

This year we should?ve been 9-3


Honestly screw the records . Why is it when we lose our players and coaches look absolutely HORRIBLE and clueless

If we were losing 41-31 or 28-21 it?s whatever but damn . It?s not even fun to watch us on offense at all.

When we are bad WE ARE BAD

2020 Georgia , 2020 ole miss , 2021 Arkansas , 2021 memphis

Are the only losses I can remember where we looked competent on both sides of the ball but just got beat.

Every other time outside of the bama ass whoopings is just us looking completely unaware that we had a football game today instead of a commercial to shoot for a pretzel stick.

Totally agree Pike. I can handle some good losses but we look like we have never played a down of football in some of these underachieving games.

Overall, we have underachieved. I don't understand anyone that thinks we are performing above DM level the past 3 years.

[R2Dawg]

Yeah and 7-3 in 2020 with a new coach and no spring practice and limited fall practice. We got some wild stuff flying on here this weekend(both ways),

Many other teams had new coaches too - Ark, OM, etc. and all schools had the same practice time so that excuse doesn't compile. If you want to throw out datapoints that is fine but can't apply one rule to us and not other teams.

[Commercecomet24]

Many other teams had new coaches too - Ark, OM, etc. and all schools had the same practice time so that excuse doesn't compile. If you want to throw out datapoints that is fine but can't apply one rule to us and not other teams.

You misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm saying expecting a 7-3 record that year is not rational. JMO just like you have yours.

[BlackSailsDawg]

I?ll throw 2020 in the damn trash.

2021 we should?ve been 8-4.

This year we should?ve been 9-3


Honestly screw the records . Why is it when we lose our players and coaches look absolutely HORRIBLE and clueless

If we were losing 41-31 or 28-21 it?s whatever but damn . It?s not even fun to watch us on offense at all.

When we are bad WE ARE BAD

2020 Georgia , 2020 ole miss , 2021 Arkansas , 2021 memphis

Are the only losses I can remember where we looked competent on both sides of the ball but just got beat.

Every other time outside of the bama ass whoopings is just us looking completely unaware that we had a football game today instead of a commercial to shoot for a pretzel stick.

Based on what? What are you basing what we should be on? Word of mouth? Talking heads? Recruiting ranking? What?

[BlackSailsDawg]

Totally agree Pike. I can handle some good losses but we look like we have never played a down of football in some of these underachieving games.

Overall, we have underachieved. I don't understand anyone that thinks we are performing above DM level the past 3 years.

Because our record shows it. It took Mullen how many years to beat this many ranked teams? Exactly.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Many other teams had new coaches too - Ark, OM, etc. and all schools had the same practice time so that excuse doesn't compile. If you want to throw out datapoints that is fine but can't apply one rule to us and not other teams.

None of those were face with the issue MSU were facing. That's being dishonest. We had to dismiss alot of players for their actions. ARK nor OM had that issue. Neither of those coaches had to totally revamp the team for a totally different offense either. None.

I get from my short time here that there are some people that 100% think that we recruit like bama, have the budget of TAMU, and have a losing record and nothing truly matters even when it's factual. Speaking of Ark Record in last 14 SEC games:

Vanderbilt 0-14
Florida 3-11
Missouri 4-10
South Carolina 4-10
Auburn 5-9
Arkansas 5-9

Want to brag on him again?

[PikeDawg15]

Based on what? What are you basing what we should be on? Word of mouth? Talking heads? Recruiting ranking? What?

Im not saying we are underachieving per say but what I AM saying is that in BOTH losses this year Mississippi State looked horrific on offense and Will Rogers looked like a true freshman back there unsure what to do with the ball.

I watched florida lose to LSU by 10 points at home , they lost by 10 just like we did against kentucky but they put up 35 points and it was a competitive game with some fun moments.

At any time in any of these losses this year has it been fun to atleast watch state?

We have been fun to watch sometimes in the past even with Leach.

2021 memphis the refs stole the game just like against arkansas , We lost the football games BUT i enjoyed watching us move the football down the field, we just got beat/Screwed whatever the record book says.


Our last 4 losses Egg bowl, Texas tech, LSU, and kentucky did you ever think after the game " damn we lost but that was a good effort"???

NOOOOOO

In all those losses we looked completely retarded on offense and Will Looked like a 2 star True Freshman who shouldve went to JUCO.

When we kicked ass against a&m and arkansas, Will Looked great. Saturday we made kentucky look like Georgia's defense.

What I want is consistency, that consistency doesnt have to always contribute to wins but dammit they dont look like they wanna be there half the time.

IDK if thats all coaching, all players, or a mix of both. But when Dan Mullen was here I never saw more than 1 or 2 games where it was a shit show unless it was against far superior talent and even still, we would put up points or atleast play hard.

[PikeDawg15]

Im not saying we are underachieving per say but what I AM saying is that in BOTH losses this year Mississippi State looked horrific on offense and Will Rogers looked like a true freshman back there unsure what to do with the ball.

I watched florida lose to LSU by 10 points at home , they lost by 10 just like we did against kentucky but they put up 35 points and it was a competitive game with some fun moments.

At any time in any of these losses this year has it been fun to atleast watch state?

We have been fun to watch sometimes in the past even with Leach.

2021 memphis the refs stole the game just like against arkansas , We lost the football games BUT i enjoyed watching us move the football down the field, we just got beat/Screwed whatever the record book says.


Our last 4 losses Egg bowl, Texas tech, LSU, and kentucky did you ever think after the game " damn we lost but that was a good effort"???

NOOOOOO

In all those losses we looked completely retarded on offense and Will Looked like a 2 star True Freshman who shouldve went to JUCO.

When we kicked ass against a&m and arkansas, Will Looked great. Saturday we made kentucky look like Georgia's defense.

What I want is consistency, that consistency doesnt have to always contribute to wins but dammit they dont look like they wanna be there half the time.

IDK if thats all coaching, all players, or a mix of both. But when Dan Mullen was here I never saw more than 1 or 2 games where it was a shit show unless it was against far superior talent and even still, we would put up points or atleast play hard.


There is a difference between getting beat and looking lost.

[Johnson85]

Totally agree Pike. I can handle some good losses but we look like we have never played a down of football in some of these underachieving games.

Overall, we have underachieved. I don't understand anyone that thinks we are performing above DM level the past 3 years.

Has anybody asked if we are performing above a DM level the last three years? The question was simply have we underachieved or overachieved more. If we were performing at the DM level the last three years that would be overachieving with middle of the pack results with way less than middle of the pack resources.

But generally, 2020 we underachieved. There is no doubt about that. But it was just a weird damn year. Certainly other teams faced similar situations, but Leach did a poor job handling it. If that's because of his system, then it's a knock against his system that you can't run it semi-competently the first year.

Last year, not sure we did either. .500 sec record still probably counts as overachieving, but losing to Memphis is hard to overcome. This year, we're basically the same. Record wise it's not bad, but how bad we have looked in the losses is underachieving. We've got a decent shot at going 8-4 (4-4). If we hit that, I would say Leach has managed to overachieve like Mullen. Not spectacular, but pretty solid. Would say that's underachieving to hit 8-4 in a year that should be a peak year, but drawing UGA from the east means it probably still qualifies as overachieving. If we go 7-5, I think that's probably about par, maybe a little bit underachieving, again, because we had a lot of upperclassmen.

[PikeDawg15]

Has anybody asked if we are performing above a DM level the last three years? The question was simply have we underachieved or overachieved more. If we were performing at the DM level the last three years that would be overachieving with middle of the pack results with way less than middle of the pack resources.

But generally, 2020 we underachieved. There is no doubt about that. But it was just a weird damn year. Certainly other teams faced similar situations, but Leach did a poor job handling it. If that's because of his system, then it's a knock against his system that you can't run it semi-competently the first year.

Last year, not sure we did either. .500 sec record still probably counts as overachieving, but losing to Memphis is hard to overcome. This year, we're basically the same. Record wise it's not bad, but how bad we have looked in the losses is underachieving. We've got a decent shot at going 8-4 (4-4). If we hit that, I would say Leach has managed to overachieve like Mullen. Not spectacular, but pretty solid. Would say that's underachieving to hit 8-4 in a year that should be a peak year, but drawing UGA from the east means it probably still qualifies as overachieving. If we go 7-5, I think that's probably about par, maybe a little bit underachieving, again, because we had a lot of upperclassmen.

I think we are on par with what we should be .... I guess.

But at the end of the day, why cant when we lose, we look like a good football team that lost a game, that game at kentucky looked a lot worse than the LSU game. We got out played at LSU and let them hang around.

We just flat out looked like a Bad offensive football team at kentucky saturday. Like 2020 level bad.

[Commercecomet24]

I think we are on par with what we should be .... I guess.

But at the end of the day, why cant when we lose, we look like a good football team that lost a game, that game at kentucky looked a lot worse than the LSU game. We got out played at LSU and let them hang around.

We just flat out looked like a Bad offensive football team at kentucky saturday. Like 2020 level bad.

Can't argue with any of that. I think you called it correctly by saying we are on par. I see it the same way as I don't think we are over OR under achieving but about on par with where we've been over the last 12 years. And yeah we looked like crap saturday and against lsu, I don't think anyone can argue with that.

[BrunswickDawg]

I think we are on par with what we should be .... I guess.

But at the end of the day, why cant when we lose, we look like a good football team that lost a game, that game at kentucky looked a lot worse than the LSU game. We got out played at LSU and let them hang around.

We just flat out looked like a Bad offensive football team at kentucky saturday. Like 2020 level bad.

I think it is more of a fluke that DM rarely had those games. South Alabama was definitely one. UGA and Auburn in 2017 were ones. Lord knows, Jackie had a ton of those games. And, I don't want to talk about SloMo and his RPBlows offense.

[Homedawg]

Im not saying we are underachieving per say but what I AM saying is that in BOTH losses this year Mississippi State looked horrific on offense and Will Rogers looked like a true freshman back there unsure what to do with the ball.

I watched florida lose to LSU by 10 points at home , they lost by 10 just like we did against kentucky but they put up 35 points and it was a competitive game with some fun moments.

At any time in any of these losses this year has it been fun to atleast watch state?

We have been fun to watch sometimes in the past even with Leach.

2021 memphis the refs stole the game just like against arkansas , We lost the football games BUT i enjoyed watching us move the football down the field, we just got beat/Screwed whatever the record book says.


Our last 4 losses Egg bowl, Texas tech, LSU, and kentucky did you ever think after the game " damn we lost but that was a good effort"???

NOOOOOO

In all those losses we looked completely retarded on offense and Will Looked like a 2 star True Freshman who shouldve went to JUCO.

When we kicked ass against a&m and arkansas, Will Looked great. Saturday we made kentucky look like Georgia's defense.

What I want is consistency, that consistency doesnt have to always contribute to wins but dammit they dont look like they wanna be there half the time.

IDK if thats all coaching, all players, or a mix of both. But when Dan Mullen was here I never saw more than 1 or 2 games where it was a shit show unless it was against far superior talent and even still, we would put up points or atleast play hard.

LSU game was fun for the first 29 mins..... then it hit the fan....

[Commercecomet24]

LSU game was fun for the first 29 mins..... then it hit the fan....

Yeah that drive before the end of the first half kinda started the ol' snowball downhill.

[R2Dawg]

None of those were face with the issue MSU were facing. That's being dishonest. We had to dismiss alot of players for their actions. ARK nor OM had that issue. Neither of those coaches had to totally revamp the team for a totally different offense either. None.

I get from my short time here that there are some people that 100% think that we recruit like bama, have the budget of TAMU, and have a losing record and nothing truly matters even when it's factual. Speaking of Ark Record in last 14 SEC games:

Vanderbilt 0-14
Florida 3-11
Missouri 4-10
South Carolina 4-10
Auburn 5-9
Arkansas 5-9

Want to brag on him again?


Ark was a complete dumpster fire, where have you been. OM wasn't in as good a shape as we were. Ark got a position line coach as a HC never been one in P5 before but he has outcoahed Leach 2-1 head to head.
Revamping the offence well that is the HC decision. We are in year 3 and still inept on O against a DC that game plans on Leach.

[R2Dawg]

Has anybody asked if we are performing above a DM level the last three years? The question was simply have we underachieved or overachieved more. If we were performing at the DM level the last three years that would be overachieving with middle of the pack results with way less than middle of the pack resources.

But generally, 2020 we underachieved. There is no doubt about that. But it was just a weird damn year. Certainly other teams faced similar situations, but Leach did a poor job handling it. If that's because of his system, then it's a knock against his system that you can't run it semi-competently the first year.

Last year, not sure we did either. .500 sec record still probably counts as overachieving, but losing to Memphis is hard to overcome. This year, we're basically the same. Record wise it's not bad, but how bad we have looked in the losses is underachieving. We've got a decent shot at going 8-4 (4-4). If we hit that, I would say Leach has managed to overachieve like Mullen. Not spectacular, but pretty solid. Would say that's underachieving to hit 8-4 in a year that should be a peak year, but drawing UGA from the east means it probably still qualifies as overachieving. If we go 7-5, I think that's probably about par, maybe a little bit underachieving, again, because we had a lot of upperclassmen.

It don't matter if no one asked. I brought up DM because I wanted to. Everyone keeps telling us that Leach is the best coach we've ever had and that Leach can beat the big boys or at least compete. We can't even beat the teams we used to beat and haven't scored a TD on Bama since he's been here.

If Leach does what everyone says he does then he wins 3 more SEC games this year along with his 2 screw up games already in the books. I'll take that but I don't see it happening so back to the question. Are we really moving the bar for MSU football?

[BlackSailsDawg]

Im not saying we are underachieving per say but what I AM saying is that in BOTH losses this year Mississippi State looked horrific on offense and Will Rogers looked like a true freshman back there unsure what to do with the ball.



Now see, that is ok by me. But it wasn't just offense either. The defense was bad. Muffed punt etc. BUT I WILL ADD... Bama had the same issues vs UT. Muffed punt cost them the game.



Dan Mullen was here I never saw more than 1 or 2 games where it was a shit show unless it was against far superior talent and even still, we would put up points or atleast play hard.


Really? Just 2?

How about 2010? 7 point vs LSU.
2011.. 6 vs LSU. 10 vs UGA. Had to win in OT vs La Tech. Only 12 against South Carolina. and 17 vs Ark.

or maybe 2012... You remember the I believe season right. 7 vs Bama. 13 against TAMU, and 17 vs LSU in back to bak to back losses.

2013? Continue? 3 points on the opening game that we had weeks to prep for vs OSU. 7 vs bama, 17 vs S Carolina. Heck we beat the mighty Bowling Green people by 1 with a score of 21.


More?

2016.. We friggin lost to South Alabama who had only been playing football or 6 years! We could only score 14 on Auburn and lost. We lost to BYU because we only score 21.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Ark was a complete dumpster fire, where have you been. OM wasn't in as good a shape as we were. Ark got a position line coach as a HC never been one in P5 before but he has outcoahed Leach 2-1 head to head.
Revamping the offence well that is the HC decision. We are in year 3 and still inept on O against a DC that game plans on Leach.

That's not true. Like him or not, the former HC at Ark had cleaned that program up and recruited decently. Just as Croom was to Dan, he was to Sam. OM was in WAY better shape than we were. Period. Ark coach did not out coach Leach. Again, circumstances matter.

Year 3 looks to be a positive step forward and Leach isn't going anywhere.

[Quaoarsking]

In 9 years Dan Mullen had 0 road wins over teams who finished ranked, and just 3 home wins over teams who finished ranked. (For comparison, Leach had 2 home ones just last year and would have gotten a road win too if Texas A&M hadn't wussed out of their bowl game.)

Why anyone thinks that Mullen would have beaten LSU or Kentucky is beyond me. And remember, I love Dan Mullen and don't have some kind of anti-Mullen agenda.

[Commercecomet24]

In 9 years Dan Mullen had 0 road wins over teams who finished ranked, and just 3 home wins over teams who finished ranked. (For comparison, Leach had 2 home ones just last year and would have gotten a road win too if Texas A&M hadn't wussed out of their bowl game.)

Why anyone thinks that Mullen would have beaten LSU or Kentucky is beyond me. And remember, I love Dan Mullen and don't have some kind of anti-Mullen agenda.

One thing State fans are great at and that's revisionist history.

[msu15]

People that are clamoring for Mullen to return are flat out weird.

[BB30]

Thank you for the post!

I wish we could change whoever we need to to see if we just upped the football budget we could really start to change things for the whole university.

It isn't who we need to change.... we need more people donating more money.

Yes, we got a big pay raise with the sec tv deal but with that came cost for a much larger staff to show all of the sporting events live and had to invest in a bunch of tech to be able to do that.

Most programs live off booster money and we don't have enough of it unfortunately.

We've overachieved according to the money that goes into the program without a doubt. Want to win more we have to donate more. Money from the SEC won't cover everything.

[BlackSailsDawg]

It isn't who we need to change.... we need more people donating more money.

Yes, we got a big pay raise with the sec tv deal but with that came cost for a much larger staff to show all of the sporting events live and had to invest in a bunch of tech to be able to do that.

Most programs live off booster money and we don't have enough of it unfortunately.

We've overachieved according to the money that goes into the program without a doubt. Want to win more we have to donate more. Money from the SEC won't cover everything.

To be honest, I would have never thought about what our obligations would be in those contracts.

I just had the impression that we just got the money and they did the work. Ignorance on my part, so thanks for the information

[dawgman15]

IMHO we will never be able to compete with the rest of the SEC as far as money goes, we are one of the smallest schools in the conference in the least populated state in the conference. Our average booster has to give more than other schools boosters

[WhiskeyPirate]

It don't matter if no one asked. I brought up DM because I wanted to. Everyone keeps telling us that Leach is the best coach we've ever had and that Leach can beat the big boys or at least compete. We can't even beat the teams we used to beat and haven't scored a TD on Bama since he's been here.

If Leach does what everyone says he does then he wins 3 more SEC games this year along with his 2 screw up games already in the books. I'll take that but I don't see it happening so back to the question. Are we really moving the bar for MSU football?
Holy shit, what a tired mantra. Get a,life, Seriously

I don’t care if leach coach’s here or wherever but this shit is old and stale. We heard you the last million times you posted this. Dan , Leach, Dan , Leach.......

I’m good with Leach retiring, getting fired, whatever, don’t care. Got it, you don’t Leach.

[Johnson85]

It don't matter if no one asked. I brought up DM because I wanted to.? That's fine but your statements pretty strongly implied that doing better than DM was the bar for under or over achieving.



Everyone keeps telling us that Leach is the best coach we've ever had and that Leach can beat the big boys or at least compete. We can't even beat the teams we used to beat and haven't scored a TD on Bama since he's been here. What teams can we not beat that we used to? Did I miss all the success we had against Bama before Leach was here? LSU? The only team Leach hasn't beat in the west are Bama and UM. Well Mullen didn't beat Bama and also lost to UM more than two times. So far it looks like Leach is going to be similar to Mullen. That's pretty good. That's going to put him in the conversation with Mullen and the Kang as the best coaches we've had that have stayed any length of time.


If Leach does what everyone says he does then he wins 3 more SEC games this year along with his 2 screw up games already in the books. I'll take that but I don't see it happening so back to the question. Are we really moving the bar for MSU football? What the 17 does this even mean? MSU is what it is. When we have a good coach, we can at least be competitive every four of five years and try to hand around the middle of that pack otherwise. Hopefully Leach will show that he can do that. If you are asking if Leach has somehow caused us to suddenly raise money at a similar level to other SEC schools or to make money irrelevant, then no, Leach has not managed to do that or turn water into wine or feed thousands with just two fish and five loaves of bread. If that's the minimum that is acceptable, we can probably go ahead and fire Leach now.

[BlackSailsDawg]

That's fine but your statements pretty strongly implied that doing better than DM was the bar for under or over achieving.


What teams can we not beat that we used to? Did I miss all the success we had against Bama before Leach was here? LSU? The only team Leach hasn't beat in the west are Bama and UM. Well Mullen didn't beat Bama and also lost to UM more than two times. So far it looks like Leach is going to be similar to Mullen. That's pretty good. That's going to put him in the conversation with Mullen and the Kang as the best coaches we've had that have stayed any length of time.

What the 17 does this even mean? MSU is what it is. When we have a good coach, we can at least be competitive every four of five years and try to hand around the middle of that pack otherwise. Hopefully Leach will show that he can do that. If you are asking if Leach has somehow caused us to suddenly raise money at a similar level to other SEC schools or to make money irrelevant, then no, Leach has not managed to do that or turn water into wine or feed thousands with just two fish and five loaves of bread. If that's the minimum that is acceptable, we can probably go ahead and fire Leach now.

Or for that matter any coach we hire in the future. We exceed what our investment is. Can we do better and have a little better return? Sure. But that's not on any coach we would have. That's on the money being allocated after we increase it.


I don't see, nor have I seen TAMU get a decent return on their money at all. They spend more than Bama! Come on. They have had over the past 5 years the #17, 4, 6, 8, and #1 class. And we beat them regularly! They pay their HC 2 times what we do for about the same results. They may win 1 more game.


Os yea, I think we are in GREAT shape to change things. We are recruiting offensive players needed to compete. Just because those classes are not starting yet, doesn't mean they are not a step forward. It's called building a program vs trying to catch lightening in a bottle.

[R2Dawg]

In 9 years Dan Mullen had 0 road wins over teams who finished ranked, and just 3 home wins over teams who finished ranked. (For comparison, Leach had 2 home ones just last year and would have gotten a road win too if Texas A&M hadn't wussed out of their bowl game.)

Why anyone thinks that Mullen would have beaten LSU or Kentucky is beyond me. And remember, I love Dan Mullen and don't have some kind of anti-Mullen agenda.

I am not a pro DM guy but I acknowledge the great things he did. I never said DM record on ranked teams was good, it wasn't but he didn't lose to inferior teams either.

How many teams has Leach beaten that ended year in top25? Fact is, we beat a lot of teams early that have no business in top 25.

[R2Dawg]

One thing State fans are great at and that's revisionist history.

Ain't nobody revising any history. We can all spout stats from past and spin them any way we want. If you think Leach is achieving better than DM then fine. I can quote you facts where he ain't. If you think DM is greatest coach in MSU history that is fine too. Every coach has bad losses and great wins.

The sustained success of Mullen and Jackie put them well beyond Leach's success so far. Both Jackie and Dan showed instantly they brought our program to a higher level at game 1. Leach did on game one too but it wasn't real, just that LSU was so bad that year. Yeah Leach beat a top 10 LSU team that probably wasn't top 50.

[PikeDawg15]

I am not a pro DM guy but I acknowledge the great things he did. I never said DM record on ranked teams was good, it wasn't but he didn't lose to inferior teams either.

How many teams has Leach beaten that ended year in top25? Fact is, we beat a lot of teams early that have no business in top 25.

alright i been frustrated this week too but ive realized that until either pony up in NIL and boost the recruiting or we are stuck as a 7 win program. Not bama or a&m money but We can still go and steal good players from other programs consistently. We have more money than kansas and kansas state, if we want one of their players we should go and steal him.

but honestly.

Leach beat kentucky, NC state, and A&M who all finished last year ranked.

He lost to memphis and had a Game literally stolen from him in fayettville.

My problem is we dont look like we have taken the jump from last year with the same players who should be more mature. And when we lose we look like dogshit but when we win we look amazing. I want consistency.

Oklahoma state lost saturday to tcu but they looked damn good losing in OT.

USC looked good in a loss to.

[R2Dawg]

That's fine but your statements pretty strongly implied that doing better than DM was the bar for under or over achieving.


What teams can we not beat that we used to? Did I miss all the success we had against Bama before Leach was here? LSU? The only team Leach hasn't beat in the west are Bama and UM. Well Mullen didn't beat Bama and also lost to UM more than two times. So far it looks like Leach is going to be similar to Mullen. That's pretty good. That's going to put him in the conversation with Mullen and the Kang as the best coaches we've had that have stayed any length of time.

What the 17 does this even mean? MSU is what it is. When we have a good coach, we can at least be competitive every four of five years and try to hand around the middle of that pack otherwise. Hopefully Leach will show that he can do that. If you are asking if Leach has somehow caused us to suddenly raise money at a similar level to other SEC schools or to make money irrelevant, then no, Leach has not managed to do that or turn water into wine or feed thousands with just two fish and five loaves of bread. If that's the minimum that is acceptable, we can probably go ahead and fire Leach now.

Dan Mullen is the recent standard for MSU football. If he ain't then who is?

My standard isn't which teams he has beat. Outside of Bama all teams have been up and down. So what, that don't prove nothing.

What IT means is the next coach (happened to be Leach) was supposed to move the bar forward. We went backwards with Joe. Simple question, are you scared of it? If everyone thinks we have all this positive mojo then the stands will be full the rest of the year. Unless we upset Bama, that ain't happening. That is the fact, tell me something different.

[R2Dawg]

Holy shit, what a tired mantra. Get a,life, Seriously

I don’t care if leach coach’s here or wherever but this shit is old and stale. We heard you the last million times you posted this. Dan , Leach, Dan , Leach.......

I’m good with Leach retiring, getting fired, whatever, don’t care. Got it, you don’t Leach.

I don't hate Leach, I do hate his stubborn philosophy. Love watching us mix it up on TAMU and Ark. Same with Joe that coached Auburn that night.

So all the sunshine Leach pumpers is OK but any disagreement is in line for cancel culture?

Some of yall need to toughen up. Ain't nothing wrong with open honest discussion but some can't handle a little pushback or debate.

[PikeDawg15]

Ain't nobody revising any history. We can all spout stats from past and spin them any way we want. If you think Leach is achieving better than DM then fine. I can quote you facts where he ain't. If you think DM is greatest coach in MSU history that is fine too. Every coach has bad losses and great wins.

The sustained success of Mullen and Jackie put them well beyond Leach's success so far. Both Jackie and Dan showed instantly they brought our program to a higher level at game 1. Leach did on game one too but it wasn't real, just that LSU was so bad that year. Yeah Leach beat a top 10 LSU team that probably wasn't top 50.

Its only year 3 man.

We will be absolutely annihilated by the Tide but dont even watch that game. Ill be doing literally anything else.

But Leach is about the same as Dan and Jackie Rn but just in a different way. In the record book yes but its completely opposite of what mullen did.

Every year with Mullen you could mark down wins against certain teams and losses and be almost perfectly correct.

With Leach , outside of alabama, you can win OR lose any game.

You can lose to memphis but beat A&M and auburn on the road. Its weird.

But Leach's monkey on his shoulder is Lane in Oxford. Just pray Lane GTFO and oklahoma doesnt make a bowl and fires Venables or A&M gets the buyout money. Or auburn's boosters refuse to hire anyone but kiffin

[BrunswickDawg]

Dan Mullen is the recent standard for MSU football. If he ain't then who is?

My standard isn't which teams he has beat. Outside of Bama all teams have been up and down. So what, that don't prove nothing.

What IT means is the next coach (happened to be Leach) was supposed to move the bar forward. We went backwards with Joe. Simple question, are you scared of it? If everyone thinks we have all this positive mojo then the stands will be full the rest of the year. Unless we upset Bama, that ain't happening. That is the fact, tell me something different.

Well, they announced today that the UGA game is a sellout. Now, that is likely UGA fans because they LOVE to takeover away games, but it will be our first sellout since when??? Bama '17?

[PikeDawg15]

Its only year 3 man.

We will be absolutely annihilated by the Tide but dont even watch that game. Ill be doing literally anything else.

But Leach is about the same as Dan and Jackie Rn but just in a different way. In the record book yes but its completely opposite of what mullen did.

Every year with Mullen you could mark down wins against certain teams and losses and be almost perfectly correct.

With Leach , outside of alabama, you can win OR lose any game.

You can lose to memphis but beat A&M and auburn on the road. Its weird.

But Leach's monkey on his shoulder is Lane in Oxford. Just pray Lane GTFO and oklahoma doesnt make a bowl and fires Venables or A&M gets the buyout money. Or auburn's boosters refuse to hire anyone but kiffin

Now if Leach goes 6-6 or 7-5 losing to ole miss again this year. There will actually be a serious conversation if there is interest from another coach that would come here that is clearly better than leach.

[R2Dawg]

Well, they announced today that the UGA game is a sellout. Now, that is likely UGA fans because they LOVE to takeover away games, but it will be our first sellout since when??? Bama '17?

Yeah since they are #1, who knows. More about that than us. There is a chance for a decent crowd if 5-10K UGA fans show up. Tickets sold and buts in seats are two different things though.

[BB30]

To be honest, I would have never thought about what our obligations would be in those contracts.

I just had the impression that we just got the money and they did the work. Ignorance on my part, so thanks for the information

The obligations aren't overly harsh but that sec money goes pretty quick when you do have significant staffing hires/tech cost along with everything getting more expensive. From coaching salaries to video guys etc.

But yes state is required to be able to produce every sporting event live including the sports few care about. Espn isn't going to send a camera crew and announcers for a men's tennis match. So that's a cost we have to cover.

Then when it comes to recruiting/NIL as far as NIL goes you can't touch sec tv money for that. We may use some of it in recruiting but not much.

A lot of our football recruiting budget comes from boosters unofficially. And unfortunately we don't have the boosters other programs have.

[WhiskeyPirate]

Now if Leach goes 6-6 or 7-5 losing to ole miss again this year. There will actually be a serious conversation if there is interest from another coach that would come here that is clearly better than leach.

Leach may well go 5-7/6-6 if sharp is out , Johnson is out and Will is scared of contact from a pass rush.

I think in the era of nil this may be a no win situation anyway, maybe leach needs to move on.

[BB30]

alright i been frustrated this week too but ive realized that until either pony up in NIL and boost the recruiting or we are stuck as a 7 win program. Not bama or a&m money but We can still go and steal good players from other programs consistently. We have more money than kansas and kansas state, if we want one of their players we should go and steal him.

but honestly.

Leach beat kentucky, NC state, and A&M who all finished last year ranked.

He lost to memphis and had a Game literally stolen from him in fayettville.

My problem is we dont look like we have taken the jump from last year with the same players who should be more mature. And when we lose we look like dogshit but when we win we look amazing. I want consistency.

Oklahoma state lost saturday to tcu but they looked damn good losing in OT.

USC looked good in a loss to.

Except for the fact that we don't have the money to go steal k state or Kansas players.

Again, sec tv money doesn't sign you nil kids that you're stealing. That money to get those kids from Kansas has to come from boosters.

Could be wrong but my guess would be Kansas has some pretty deep pockets booster wise just based off of basketball and the improvement they have made in football since nil became available.

We might be on par with K state but we aren't going to get their best players. Their best players will take a million dollar nil deal at bama or Texas etc. so we are still right where we would be regardless.

Bottom line is we do not have the donor money to consistently compete for sec west titles. The fact that we are in the conversation every 4-5 years is astonishing.

Ole miss raises about 10-15 million more on average from boosters than we do yearly. That is why they are winning at a higher clip than we are.

[PikeDawg15]

Except for the fact that we don't have the money to go steal k state or Kansas players.

Again, sec tv money doesn't sign you nil kids that you're stealing. That money to get those kids from Kansas has to come from boosters.

Could be wrong but my guess would be Kansas has some pretty deep pockets booster wise just based off of basketball and the improvement they have made in football since nil became available.

We might be on par with K state but we aren't going to get their best players. Their best players will take a million dollar nil deal at bama or Texas etc. so we are still right where we would be regardless.

Bottom line is we do not have the donor money to consistently compete for sec west titles. The fact that we are in the conversation every 4-5 years is astonishing.

Ole miss raises about 10-15 million more on average from boosters than we do yearly. That is why they are winning at a higher clip than we are.



Might as well quit then if thats the case.

[WhiskeyPirate]

Except for the fact that we don't have the money to go steal k state or Kansas players.

Again, sec tv money doesn't sign you nil kids that you're stealing. That money to get those kids from Kansas has to come from boosters.

Could be wrong but my guess would be Kansas has some pretty deep pockets booster wise just based off of basketball and the improvement they have made in football since nil became available.

We might be on par with K state but we aren't going to get their best players. Their best players will take a million dollar nil deal at bama or Texas etc. so we are still right where we would be regardless.

Bottom line is we do not have the donor money to consistently compete for sec west titles. The fact that we are in the conversation every 4-5 years is astonishing.

Ole miss raises about 10-15 million more on average from boosters than we do yearly. That is why they are winning at a higher clip than we are.

Excellent post, most haven’t figured this out and to be honest I didn’t fully appreciate until recently.

I’ll give you an example, Texas tech. They have always been a pretty crap program with no local talent. Leach was their high water Mark and then they sunk back down to the sewer.

Well guess what, now with nil they are a rich school, lots of oil money. Good talent big nil budget and recruiting. They’ve got much more than Miss State. The game has changed,

We are probably screwed. Leach is a dinasour and may just hang it up, which might be the smart move.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Ain't nobody revising any history. We can all spout stats from past and spin them any way we want. If you think Leach is achieving better than DM then fine. I can quote you facts where he ain't. If you think DM is greatest coach in MSU history that is fine too. Every coach has bad losses and great wins.

The sustained success of Mullen and Jackie put them well beyond Leach's success so far. Both Jackie and Dan showed instantly they brought our program to a higher level at game 1. Leach did on game one too but it wasn't real, just that LSU was so bad that year. Yeah Leach beat a top 10 LSU team that probably wasn't top 50.

LOL... only because they were given time to do so. As pointed out Leach is way ahead of where Mullen was. That's not a knock on Mullen. I credit Mullen for pushing MSU forward, but I'm not going to lie about the current staff just because I did not like an out come of a game. Mullen, in his 3 year went 6-6.

[BlackSailsDawg]

I don't hate Leach, I do hate his stubborn philosophy. Love watching us mix it up on TAMU and Ark. Same with Joe that coached Auburn that night.

So all the sunshine Leach pumpers is OK but any disagreement is in line for cancel culture?

Some of yall need to toughen up. Ain't nothing wrong with open honest discussion but some can't handle a little pushback or debate.

It hasn't one anything to do with sunshine pumpers. It has to do with people simply saying stop making things up because you are pissed over a game. You are demanding that Leach is Stubborn!! I heard the same thing when Mullen was here. Heck a guy sold me his season tickets because "Mullen was Stubborn".

We had 2 starting RBs go down. We had an OL go down in the same game and you think Leach decided not to run just because "He's too stubborn". What???

That has nothing to do with a cancel culture. It doesn't absolve a let down game either.

:cool:

[BlackSailsDawg]

Might as well quit then if thats the case.

Why quit? Why not build a program and compete?


Were we out of the LSU game or did it take our mess ups to help them win? To me, the UK game looked worse on us than the LSU game. Every other game we played... we pretty much did what we wanted to. And most of these guys will be back another season to build on this.

We need to change our mind set from demanding we catch lightening to building a program that kids want to come to. We are pulling in the QBs, WRs, and RBs because of the Leach system. Why would we want to go away from that? We need better recruits in the trenches for sure! But working the RS and portal with a sprinkle of NIL could be great for us. As I pointed out, 11 out of 24 of our 4 stars are Freshmen (be it true or red shirt) and 2 are SO, 4 are Jrs. That's a great sign.

[Johnson85]

R2Dawg:
We can't even beat the teams we used to beat

Also R2Dawg:


My standard isn't which teams he has beat. Outside of Bama all teams have been up and down. So what, that don't prove nothing.

Well that's clear.



What IT means is the next coach (happened to be Leach) was supposed to move the bar forward. We went backwards with Joe. Simple question, are you scared of it? If everyone thinks we have all this positive mojo then the stands will be full the rest of the year. Unless we upset Bama, that ain't happening. That is the fact, tell me something different. then we've moved forward with Leach, about to where Mullen started. We look like MSU 2010 right now. A flawed but dangerous team and also one that looks likely to take a step backwards next year. We'll see how we do next couple of years. Probably can't afford to flounder like Dan did from 2011 through 2013 because I think leach will retire if he does, unless he knows he has a monster year coming. Just not sure we're going to be able to keep up in recruiting in the NIL world so I'm concerned this may be the peak.

[Goldendawg]

Now if Leach goes 6-6 or 7-5 losing to ole miss again this year. There will actually be a serious conversation if there is interest from another coach that would come here that is clearly better than leach.

5-7? You do realize we still play, ETS, East Tennessee State, don't you, but 6-6 is also a failure season. That victory over ETS would be our only remaining victory leading up to another potential loss in a nothing bowl. 6-6, with the 3rd loss in a row to OM, we have serious issues.

[Goldendawg]

Why quit? Why not build a program and compete?


Were we out of the LSU game or did it take our mess ups to help them win? To me, the UK game looked worse on us than the LSU game. Every other game we played... we pretty much did what we wanted to. And most of these guys will be back another season to build on this.

We need to change our mind set from demanding we catch lightening to building a program that kids want to come to. We are pulling in the QBs, WRs, and RBs because of the Leach system. Why would we want to go away from that? We need better recruits in the trenches for sure! But working the RS and portal with a sprinkle of NIL could be great for us. As I pointed out, 11 out of 24 of our 4 stars are Freshmen (be it true or red shirt) and 2 are SO, 4 are Jrs. That's a great sign.

If we are counting young 4 stars, have you counted how many in the 2023 class thus far, on 24/7? Two with round offs. Hope we close strong but our offer list on this site shows only Smith from Fulton at .9329 remaining, "Top Targets". Hope we are working on some more flips or the portal.

[BlackSailsDawg]

If we are counting young 4 stars, have you counted how many in the 2023 class thus far, on 24/7? Two with round offs. Hope we close strong but our offer list on this site shows only Smith from Fulton at .9329 remaining, "Top Targets". Hope we are working on some more flips or the portal.

We have 2 important ones in, looks like 2 more known plus what ever else we have we all know nothing about. Just like the flip from FL. I knew nothing about that. Then Portal. I see us ending with maybe 7 to 9 four star guys.

[KOdawg1]

I see us ending with maybe 7 to 9 four star guys.

In this class???

Doubtful. Right now, we have three 247 4 stars and one composite 4 star.

Isaac Smith is one we could realistically get. We're on the RB from Picayune, but I think we might be too late. He's trending to OM. Other than those guys, we're not on anyone else. So unless we have some guys get bumped up or some new names emerge, I think 5-6 four stars seems more likely in this class.