The real problem

[Cowbell]

You boys can talk about Will all you want But it's a moot point. Period. It's sad that the most accurate passer we have ever had is getting wasted in a faulty offensive scheme and here's the reasons why.

1) This offense does not exploit mismatches. The college game is won by those who know how to circle weaknesses on teams and exploit them. Instead, we run what we run and focus on execution and don't exploit other teams weaknesses or game plan to exploit them on a detailed level.

2) If the other teams ends are better than our tackles, that is possibly the game. Arizona got us in a tight spot because of this. Their DL was the only talent they had and it nearly exploited our offense at times. Good defenses like Georgia, alabama and LSU will win every time. We make it so easy on DCs - they just pin their ears back and come after us every play. We just let our tackles live on an island and hope they win. And if they don't, so be it. A running back can't chip an SEC defensive end. We don't bootleg. We rarely run play action. We don't run inside screens. We rarely run draws. We don't make defenses back off in any way. They have learned to let linebackers sit down in coverage but still play close enough to be effective in our few run plays. Our guards essentially are a waste of a body on many pass plays. That's a mismatch to the advantage of the DC - think about it - - we have two blockers nearly every play that don't even account for anyone. That's why they can cover 5-6 with 8. Its INSANITY.

3) Tight Ends - name me a good team at any level of football that doesn't have an effective tight end. A good tight end would really change this offense. Ends and linebackers would have to start paying better attention and they couldn't just pin their ears back. He would be an extra dump route outside of the running back. I don't know why we don't just put one of our bigger receivers there to chip and create some disguise at times.

4) We don't have an OC and therefore no creative play making. We just focus on repetition and execution. It's like only taking one tool to a job when you might need a dozen different things. This offense could be killer at our current talent level if we could just make defenses keep guessing. Instead they generally know what we are doing, they just have to stop it. Think about that. They know what we are going to do week in and week out. Saban was able to alter his defense last year in one week of practice because he knew exactly what we were going to do so he took advantage. The offense is a sitting duck to good coaches with average talent. You can make confident calls when you aren't guessing what we are going to do next. And again - make me a good team at any level that doesn't have a good OC.

I'm done with Leach - this offense is a joke against good teams. Good DCs will eat us alive going forward. Our talent and experience are the only thing that will keep us in games. The coaching will not. We have a coach that has not changed anything in 20 years and I again would love for you to point me to a coach that has found consistent success without adapting. Even the best coaches with the best talent adapt. It's really a disservice for him to get paid what he is making and not put in the work to change and adapt to beat good teams. That's his job.

[Cowbell]

And to you Cohen - I'm not mad at the hire - I hoped it would work but had my doubts. But I will hold you accountable if we don't make a change. It's the equivalent to hiring a baseball coach that never bunts and never utilizes pitching matchups.

[justwin]

You boys can talk about Will all you want But it's a moot point. Period. It's sad that the most accurate passer we have ever had is getting wasted in a faulty offensive scheme and here's the reasons why.

1) This offense does not exploit mismatches. The college game is won by those who know how to circle weaknesses on teams and exploit them. Instead, we run what we run and focus on execution and don't exploit other teams weaknesses or game plan to exploit them on a detailed level.

2) If the other teams ends are better than our tackles, that is possibly the game. Arizona got us in a tight spot because of this. Their DL was the only talent they had and it nearly exploited our offense at times. Good defenses like Georgia, alabama and LSU will win every time. We make it so easy on DCs - they just pin their ears back and come after us every play. We just let our tackles live on an island and hope they win. And if they don't, so be it. A running back can't chip an SEC defensive end. We don't bootleg. We rarely run play action. We don't run inside screens. We rarely run draws. We don't make defenses back off in any way. They have learned to let linebackers sit down in coverage but still play close enough to be effective in our few run plays. Our guards essentially are a waste of a body on many pass plays. That's a mismatch to the advantage of the DC - think about it - - we have two blockers nearly every play that don't even account for anyone. That's why they can cover 5-6 with 8. Its INSANITY.

3) Tight Ends - name me a good team at any level of football that doesn't have an effective tight end. A good tight end would really change this offense. Ends and linebackers would have to start paying better attention and they couldn't just pin their ears back. He would be an extra dump route outside of the running back. I don't know why we don't just put one of our bigger receivers there to chip and create some disguise at times.

4) We don't have an OC and therefore no creative play making. We just focus on repetition and execution. It's like only taking one tool to a job when you might need a dozen different things. This offense could be killer at our current talent level if we could just make defenses keep guessing. Instead they generally know what we are doing, they just have to stop it. Think about that. They know what we are going to do week in and week out. Saban was able to alter his defense last year in one week of practice because he knew exactly what we were going to do so he took advantage. The offense is a sitting duck to good coaches with average talent. You can make confident calls when you aren't guessing what we are going to do next. And again - make me a good team at any level that doesn't have a good OC.

I'm done with Leach - this offense is a joke against good teams. Good DCs will eat us alive going forward. Our talent and experience are the only thing that will keep us in games. The coaching will not. We have a coach that has not changed anything in 20 years and I again would love for you to point me to a coach that has found consistent success without adapting. Even the best coaches with the best talent adapt. It's really a disservice for him to get paid what he is making and not put in the work to change and adapt to beat good teams. That's his job.

this is a terrible take all around. this offense works. we need a qb who can throw downfield with zip and have just a little mobility and it will take off. this offense even works to be avg or slightly above avg with a limited qb which is what we currently have.

[ShotgunDawg]

So funny to hear people blame scheme when LSU had a better player at most every position on the field and these same people don?t give to NIL while wanting the coach fired.

It?s mis-placed blame

[memsu06]

I guess we'll just keep trying coaches out every 3-4 years till we get one the fans like? That will be awesome for recruiting with a fan base that doesn't do much with NIL.

Keep it up and we'll be back to the Croom years.

The Air Raid does work. Our receivers are getting open. Will just needs to make up his mind faster and the receiver needs to catch the ball.

This LSU game reminded me of the Ole Miss game last year. We were in the game until we had critical dropped passes and turn overs.

Mullen was 0-9 against Bama
Mullen was 2-7 against LSU
Mullen lost to South Alabama

If you're going to judge Mike Leach then you need to look at Dan Mullen the same way.

We're going to have games where we aren't firing on all cylinders. This LSU game was a breakdown of the entire team.

LSU is a much better team than most realize. They have talent all over the field. It wouldn't surprise me they give Bama a good game.

[Maroonthirteen]

Hahaha. Anytime some facts are presented, the swabs come out with "but but but ...Mullen, Moorhead...". Blah blah blah.

Cowbell is dead on about this offense. This offense is the same formations every week. Same Plays with 7-9 variations of pass routes. But don't listen to Cowbell, listen to DCs and players around the country.

Now will this offense work? Yeah to some extent vs equal talent. But this offense does require exceptional talent along the line, because it puts tackles and guards in one on one situations in space. You will need high quality OL, size and speed, to give any QB the necessary time for the 7-9 routes to develop. (This is why you don't see passes down field. Not enough time for QB, two safeties every the top). Then you'll need to continue to recruit high Level QBs. Two positions msu has always struggled to recruit. Oh and NIL, I give to BIL. But.... State is number 13 in the sec in recruiting budget. Tell ole LT-Cohen to get off the check book and fund recruiting..... Mizer 2.0. Anyways....

What I find funny," air raid, air raid, air raid." Now everyone wants a QB that can run. Yeah, you'll need a QB that can run with this offense. The gaps are so wide and our OL so slow, it is an interstate freeway to the backfield for LBs.

Looking forward to the Mullen did this Moorhead did that thread. Meanwhile we will see if this offense scores a TD on Bama or UGA this year.

[Maroonthirteen]

Let me add too... I'm not advocating for Leach to be fired. I'm sure he wasn't Cohens first choice but at the end of the process he was the best choice ... let that sink in. Leach has been good as far as organization and discipline.

However, This offense has flaws. It may be David's sling shot and rock but difference is Goliath knows it's coming and how and when David is going to sling the rock. Point is, it isn't always on the players.

[msstate7]

So funny to hear people blame scheme when LSU had a better player at most every position on the field and these same people don?t give to NIL while wanting the coach fired.

It?s mis-placed blame

We were favored. ED and SPS spent all offseason telling us lsu was trash. Now lsu is back! Clowns.

[ShotgunDawg]

We were favored. ED and SPS spent all offseason telling us lsu was trash. Now lsu is back! Clowns.

I think we?re going to be a solid team, but?

1. LSU is never trash. They?re talent is too good.

2. They were more talented at most every position on the field.

[msstate7]

I think we?re going to be a solid team, but?

1. LSU is never trash. They?re talent is too good.

2. They were more talented at most every position on the field.

The difference in the game wasn't talent even though I agree with you. The difference ended up being we put a subpar player in to replace a good player on PR.

ETA... lsu is better at off-the-field positions (coaching), too

[FISHDAWG]

You boys can talk about Will all you want But it's a moot point. Period. It's sad that the most accurate passer we have ever had is getting wasted in a faulty offensive scheme and here's the reasons why.
Will is good but I think Tyler Russell had better accuracy IMO ... both had slow feet

[QUOTE=ShotgunDawg;1449565]So funny to hear people blame scheme when LSU had a better player at most every position on the field and these same people don?t give to NIL while wanting the coach fired.

It?s mis-placed blame

truth ... if you want to complain then pony up first


Let me add too... I'm not advocating for Leach to be fired. I'm sure he wasn't Cohens first choice but at the end of the process he was the best choice ... let that sink in. Leach has been good as far as organization and discipline.

However, This offense has flaws. It may be David's sling shot and rock but difference is Goliath knows it's coming and how and when David is going to sling the rock. Point is, it isn't always on the players.

Truth ... it wasn't Will's call to go for it on 4th down everytime we turned around and it certainly isn't his fault that we have no better running plays than what we used on those 4th down attempts


We were favored. ED and SPS spent all offseason telling us lsu was trash. Now lsu is back! Clowns.

So many of us already expected this and I don't think this game was a surprise to anyone even though a lot here expected to beat them .... the same applies to almost any SEC team

[basedog]

We were favored. ED and SPS spent all offseason telling us lsu was trash. Now lsu is back! Clowns.

It is funny, not making sideline adjustments was a huge mistake as were the turnover and drop passes. We got out-coached and out-played.

[BrunswickDawg]

The difference in the game wasn't talent even though I agree with you. The difference ended up being we put a subpar player in to replace a good player on PR.

So BJ Ojulari's talent wasn't what impacted the game? Or Nabers? They took over the game in the second half - which is what talent can do. Especially at home with a rocking crowd. And they are better than any players we put on the field on either side of the ball. Both statistically, recruiting stars, and real talent.

I never bought in to LSU being trash. They have a ton of talent. Yes, they are in a transition year which many posters on here said "glad we got them early in the season hopefully before they have a chance to gel". Guess what? We missed that window by a half. I think if we played them week 1 like FSU we likely win. But you could watch that team maturing and coming together during the game. They play like they did Saturday, and they will run through their next 5 games and be 7-1 playing Bama.

[msstate7]

So BJ Ojulari's talent wasn't what impacted the game? Or Nabers? They took over the game in the second half - which is what talent can do. Especially at home with a rocking crowd. And they are better than any players we put on the field on either side of the ball. Both statistically, recruiting stars, and real talent.

I never bought in to LSU being trash. They have a ton of talent. Yes, they are in a transition year which many posters on here said "glad we got them early in the season hopefully before they have a chance to gel". Guess what? We missed that window by a half. I think if we played them week 1 like FSU we likely win. But you could watch that team maturing and coming together during the game. They play like they did Saturday, and they will run through their next 5 games and be 7-1 playing Bama.

At auburn
Tenn
At Florida
OM

I'd love to bet they don't run that table

[Maroonthirteen]

So funny to hear people blame scheme when LSU had a better player at most every position

I'm positive you said many times the air raid neutralizes the talent gap.

[WhiskeyPirate]

I'm positive you said many times the air raid neutralizes the talent gap.

Yes the air raid does help negate the talent gap. LSU had the #8 most talented roster in the country, MSU #29. One game doesn?t make a season.

Leach is 1-2 against LSU, Dan was 2-7....as in most stats, Leach will surpass Dan

[basedog]

I don't get all the talk about DM versus ML, it has nothing to do with this season or any season. Time to move on as DM ain't coming back to StarkVegas.

[msstate7]

Yes the air raid does help negate the talent gap. LSU had the #8 most talented roster in the country, MSU #29. One game doesn?t make a season.

Leach is 1-2 against LSU, Dan was 2-7....as in most stats, Leach will surpass Dan

LSU while mullen was here: 87-29
LSU while leach has been here: 13-12

[Matt3467]

I'm not so sure Will is deadly accurate like many say. He just makes a lot of high % throws. I've seen Will be pretty inaccurate on what should be routine throws. I think this offense can be a little deceiving when it comes to completion percentage. I think Will is decent and like Leach he'll win you some games you shouldn't win but also disappear at times.

[WhiskeyPirate]

Dan Mullen sec record his first five years at State :3-5, 4-4, 2-6, 4-4 , 3-5. Against a much easier SOS than Leach.

I think Leach will top that easily against a much harder SOS.

Dans record against LSU was 2-7, leach will also beat that.

[Matt3467]

Yes the air raid does help negate the talent gap. LSU had the #8 most talented roster in the country, MSU #29. One game doesn?t make a season.

Leach is 1-2 against LSU, Dan was 2-7....as in most stats, Leach will surpass Dan


LSU while mullen was here: 87-29
LSU while leach has been here: 13-12

Croom vs Saban 1-1
Dan vs Saban 0-9
Leach vs Saban 0-2

Croom > Dan & Leach

[DawgFromOxford]

this is a terrible take all around. this offense works. we need a qb who can throw downfield with zip and have just a little mobility and it will take off. this offense even works to be avg or slightly above avg with a limited qb which is what we currently have.

This aint it. I'm sure Will can throw the ball downfield, but that's tough to do when the defense sits back with 2 safeties because they know what offense we are running. Not to mention the time it takes for those routes to develop when you have a RT that can't block his man. As for a mobile QB, don't get your hopes up. Mike wants his guy to sit in the pocket and make the quick accurate throws. Undoubtedly, there's guys in the QB room more mobile than Will, yet they haven't sniffed the field.

[msstate7]

I'm not so sure Will is deadly accurate like many say. He just makes a lot of high % throws. I've seen Will be pretty inaccurate on what should be routine throws. I think this offense can be a little deceiving when it comes to completion percentage. I think Will is decent and like Leach he'll win you some games you shouldn't win but also disappear at times.

Will is accurate, but you're right on easy throws.

Comp % nationally - 10th
Yds/att nationally - 74th

Here's what real downfield accuracy looks like...

Caleb Williams comp % nationally - 4th
Yds/att nationally - 8th

[Maroonthirteen]

I don't get all the talk about DM versus ML, it has nothing to do with this season or any season. Time to move on as DM ain't coming back to StarkVegas.

To deflect from the point of the conversation which is the air raid.

[msstate7]

This aint it. I'm sure Will can throw the ball downfield, but that's tough to do when the defense sits back with 2 safeties because they know what offense we are running. Not to mention the time it takes for those routes to develop when you have a RT that can't block his man. As for a mobile QB, don't get your hopes up. Mike wants his guy to sit in the pocket and make the quick accurate throws. Undoubtedly, there's guys in the QB room more mobile than Will, yet they haven't sniffed the field.

I'd prefer a TE over a mobile qb even though I'd rather both. A TE can at least help our tackle out some

[Cowbell]

So funny to hear people blame scheme when LSU had a better player at most every position on the field and these same people don?t give to NIL while wanting the coach fired.

It?s mis-placed blame

Hahaha - this is hilarious - I actually had a meeting with a university official just last week about NIL
Giving and how to handle. Maybe you should quit making assumptions...

[Cowbell]

So funny to hear people blame scheme when LSU had a better player at most every position on the field and these same people don?t give to NIL while wanting the coach fired.

It?s mis-placed blame

The only way to beat superior talent is scheme and execution

[Cowbell]

This aint it. I'm sure Will can throw the ball downfield, but that's tough to do when the defense sits back with 2 safeties because they know what offense we are running. Not to mention the time it takes for those routes to develop when you have a RT that can't block his man. As for a mobile QB, don't get your hopes up. Mike wants his guy to sit in the pocket and make the quick accurate throws. Undoubtedly, there's guys in the QB room more mobile than Will, yet they haven't sniffed the field.

You get it

[Cowbell]

I'd prefer a TE over a mobile qb even though I'd rather both. A TE can at least help our tackle out some

Yes sir

[MaroonFlounder]

I said before the season that the O-Line is good, but not good enough (for an offense with an immobile QB that passes 90% of the time).

We saw that in Baton Rouge.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Hahaha. Anytime some facts are presented, the swabs come out with "but but but ...Mullen, Moorhead...". Blah blah blah.

Cowbell is dead on about this offense. This offense is the same formations every week. Same Plays with 7-9 variations of pass routes. But don't listen to Cowbell, listen to DCs and players around the country.

Now will this offense work? Yeah to some extent vs equal talent. But this offense does require exceptional talent along the line, because it puts tackles and guards in one on one situations in space. You will need high quality OL, size and speed, to give any QB the necessary time for the 7-9 routes to develop. (This is why you don't see passes down field. Not enough time for QB, two safeties every the top). Then you'll need to continue to recruit high Level QBs. Two positions msu has always struggled to recruit. Oh and NIL, I give to BIL. But.... State is number 13 in the sec in recruiting budget. Tell ole LT-Cohen to get off the check book and fund recruiting..... Mizer 2.0. Anyways....

What I find funny," air raid, air raid, air raid." Now everyone wants a QB that can run. Yeah, you'll need a QB that can run with this offense. The gaps are so wide and our OL so slow, it is an interstate freeway to the backfield for LBs.

Looking forward to the Mullen did this Moorhead did that thread. Meanwhile we will see if this offense scores a TD on Bama or UGA this year.

He's no where near dead on. In fact he's pretty much 100% wrong. Yes you need a great OL. He would have ever thought that in the SEC, we would need a great OL. A flash of news. So does every offense in the SEC. Every offense has flaws when it has a weakness in the line up.

[BlackSailsDawg]

The difference in the game wasn't talent even though I agree with you. The difference ended up being we put a subpar player in to replace a good player on PR.

ETA... lsu is better at off-the-field positions (coaching), too


I'm going to say that Daniels was far superior to our LBs... I'm also willing to say their OL was far superior to our DL.

[msstate7]

I'm going to say that Daniels was far superior to our LBs... I'm also willing to say their OL was far superior to our DL.

So you agree? I agreed with shotgun that lsu was more talented

[BlackSailsDawg]

I don't get all the talk about DM versus ML, it has nothing to do with this season or any season. Time to move on as DM ain't coming back to StarkVegas.

I think it's because people seem to think that Mullen is the God of coaches at MSU and then you have threads where MS7 and others "beg Mullen to come back"... or a poll on if we would like Mullen back.

[Maroonthirteen]

He's no where near dead on. In fact he's pretty much 100% wrong. Yes you need a great OL. He would have ever thought that in the SEC, we would need a great OL. A flash of news. So does every offense in the SEC. Every offense has flaws when it has a weakness in the line up.

So the air raid isn't special or unique and you'll still need players equal to or similar to your opponent, like always. That's exactly my point. This offense puts 3* on an island with 4-5*. Tough situation to win.

[Cooterpoot]

So funny to hear people blame scheme when LSU had a better player at most every position on the field and these same people don?t give to NIL while wanting the coach fired.

It?s mis-placed blame

No it's not. This scheme is ancient. So much so, there is no "scheme". It's line up and run the same handful of plays over and over. We don't do anything to help ourselves. Even the LSU players said so. They knew what we were going to do and that we kept trying the same things over and over. That's why they basically shut it down after the first half.

[Goldendawg]

No it's not. This scheme is ancient. So much so, there is no "scheme". It's line up and run the same handful of plays over and over. We don't do anything to help ourselves. Even the LSU players said so. They knew what we were going to do and that we kept trying the same things over and over. That's why they basically shut it down after the first half.

You will see the same issues we had against LSU on O with any SEC D's we face with good DB's and a fast DE's. Our LB's also lack speed defending the flats and a QB scramble. Safety play has not improved against the pass at all. As per our "experienced 2022 returning team", sometimes it just means a year older, not necessarily better. BTW, looked at next year's schedule, no GA, we go 11-1!**** Hail State!

[BlackSailsDawg]

So you agree? I agreed with shotgun that lsu was more talented

I posted about this the week before the game. Started a topic on it. The only way that LSU wins the game is if we do not contain him and keep our discipline on the edges. If he is able to run to the edges, he alone will win the game. I also posted that is is not an inaccurate passer that his issue is not seeing the field. We lack speed in certain positions. LB, Edge, Safety. The only way to win those battles is not allow him outside. First half, we did a good job at it. Last drive of the half, we did not.


2nd & 2 at LSU 33

(1:44 - 2nd) Jayden Daniels run for 13 yds to the LSU 46 for a 1ST down

2nd & 7 at LSU 49

(1:20 - 2nd) Jayden Daniels run for 15 yds to the MisSt 36 for a 1ST down


2nd & 2 at MSST 28

(0:55 - 2nd) Jayden Daniels run for 20 yds to the MisSt 8 for a 1ST down


LSU has a better Roster than we do over all. We are matching them in certain areas. Leach has done a great job in picking up our WR, RB, and QB rooms. What's nice is he bit the bullet and is setting to stage for consistency from year to year. Yes, we will have a lot gone after this year, but we will replace those with people who have been here in the systems for a few years.

Let's take Sawyer. Sawyer will take over and he will be more than ready. He came here because of Leach and the system. Same with Locke... Same with Parson. All of those will be ready and the drop off should not be massive. The area for improvement will be the OL. We are not Bama, UGA. We have to think long term stability build to our program. Stoops, Clawson, Mullen at MSU. We will set our program back to the Croom ages with a revolving door.

Now on defense, defense is a bigger concern for me. We are playing mainly with recruits pre Leach/Arnett on the DL and LB. We need speed.

Shorter story, our recruiting needs to improve on OL, Edge, LBs, Safety.

[BlackSailsDawg]

So the air raid isn't special or unique and you'll still need players equal to or similar to your opponent, like always. That's exactly my point. This offense puts 3* on an island with 4-5*. Tough situation to win.

Where did I say it wasn't unique? It is. I stated that all offenses will need a great OL. We will always pull in great QBs and WRs with RBS. We have never had this much talent in those rooms at the same time.

[Goldendawg]

Lack speed at LB, edge, and safety? Who's left? DL gets very little pressure with a 3 man front and sometimes even when we send the house. What happened to the fast, tough DE's I read about in the preseason? I think our preseason hype was about the worse I have ever fallen for since my first game attended in 1963. Year may get tougher fast.

[msugolf]

Where did I say it wasn't unique? It is. I stated that all offenses will need a great OL. We will always pull in great QBs and WRs with RBS. We have never had this much talent in those rooms at the same time.

We aren't nearly as talented at WR and RB as most of our fans think we are

[dawgman15]

We aren't nearly as talented at WR and RB as most of our fans think we are

Woody Marks and Dillon Johnson will both be NFL backs. At least one of our wide receivers will be drafted, I feel like the last wide receiver we had drafted was Eric Moulds so yes we are more talented in those rooms

[BlackSailsDawg]

No it's not. This scheme is ancient. So much so, there is no "scheme". It's line up and run the same handful of plays over and over. We don't do anything to help ourselves. Even the LSU players said so. They knew what we were going to do and that we kept trying the same things over and over. That's why they basically shut it down after the first half.

They didn't shut anything down. We did that to ourselves. A few examples:


2nd & 10 at LSU 49

(4:00 - 1st) Will Rogers sacked by BJ Ojulari for a loss of 9 yards to the MisSt 42
3rd & 19 at MSST 42

(3:30 - 1st) Will Rogers pass complete to Rufus Harvey for 18 yds to the LSU 40

The sack put us way behind the chains.




1st & 10 at MSST 29

(14:00 - 2nd) Will Rogers pass complete to Rara Thomas for 10 yds to the MisSt 39 for a 1ST down
1st & 10 at MSST 39

(13:30 - 2nd) Will Rogers pass complete to Jamire Calvin for 6 yds to the MisSt 45
2nd & 4 at MSST 45

(13:00 - 2nd) Will Rogers run for 6 yds to the LSU 49 for a 1ST down
1st & 10 at LSU 49

(12:50 - 2nd) Will Rogers pass incomplete
2nd & 10 at LSU 49

(12:40 - 2nd) Will Rogers pass incomplete


Dropped pass.


2nd & 10 at MSST 36

(14:20 - 3rd) Will Rogers pass complete to Dillon Johnson for 8 yds to the MisSt 44
3rd & 2 at MSST 44

(13:45 - 3rd) Will Rogers pass incomplete to Rara Thomas

Dropped pass... stopped the drive. Not Pass defended. Dropped pass.

[Goldendawg]

Woody Marks and Dillon Johnson will both be NFL backs. At least one of our wide receivers will be drafted, I feel like the last wide receiver we had drafted was Eric Moulds so yes we are more talented in those rooms

Which WR?

[msstate7]

Woody Marks and Dillon Johnson will both be NFL backs. At least one of our wide receivers will be drafted, I feel like the last wide receiver we had drafted was Eric Moulds so yes we are more talented in those rooms

Both nfl backs? I'd take that bet

[dawgman15]

I would say Rara but hes young so hell have to keep showing those things, Tulu should, he's a little undersized but I would expect him to get drafted off athletic ability alone

[dawgman15]

Both nfl backs? I'd take that bet

What you wanna bet? Woody Marks is made for today's NFL and Dillon Johnson size and speed combo will get him there

[Goldendawg]

Both nfl backs? I'd take that bet

Neither is very elusive or break many tackles. Both catch the ball well and might make it as a third down back/ST. NFL has changed and RB's are now a dime a dozen, not featured as the were in the past.

[dawgman15]

Neither is very elusive or break many tackles. Both catch the ball well and might make it as a third down back/ST. NFL has changed and RB's are now a dime a dozen, not featured as the were in the past.

It's hard to be elusive on a checkdown that everyone in the stadium knows is coming

[BlackSailsDawg]

Lack speed at LB, edge, and safety? Who's left? DL gets very little pressure with a 3 man front and sometimes even when we send the house. What happened to the fast, tough DE's I read about in the preseason? I think our preseason hype was about the worse I have ever fallen for since my first game attended in 1963. Year may get tougher fast.

I think we are improved. We do get pressure, but Charlton is slow. We played without 2 starters on that DL. Crumedy and Davis. We are going with vet LBs over recruits for that system because they are adapting and lack experience. Over all they do a pretty good. We simply failed on all sides of the ball at LSU.

Drop after Drop. Not making quick decisions. Lost the most important series of the game, imo, when we allowed Daniels to take over with 2 minutes left in the half. It was at that point, the defense looked lost. Our offense didn't help the defense. Muffed punts didn't help the defense.

This season is not over and this out come if not a sign of the times. It's 1 loss in the building of the a program.

[Goldendawg]

It's hard to be elusive on a checkdown that everyone in the stadium knows is coming

Except for Woody's 37 yard TD against LSU, how many long runs with breakaway speed has either had? I know our run blocking doesn't help much however.

[msstate7]

What you wanna bet? Woody Marks is made for today's NFL and Dillon Johnson size and speed combo will get him there

They aren't even in the top half of the sec. OM probably has 2 better right now in this state... 1 for sure

[BlackSailsDawg]

Except for Woody's 37 yard TD against LSU, how many long runs with breakaway speed has either had? I know our run blocking doesn't help much however.

Well, in that same game Johnson ran it for 35.

1st & 10 at LSU 48

(3:08 - 2nd) Dillon Johnson run for 35 yds to the LSU 13 for a 1ST down
1st & 10 at LSU 13

(2:30 - 2nd) Will Rogers pass incomplete to Caleb Ducking
2nd & 10 at LSU 13

(2:14 - 2nd) Will Rogers pass complete to Rara Thomas for 13 yds for a TD, (Ben Raybon KICK)



We are a better team this year than last.

[dawgman15]

If you stuck woody or Johnson in their system they would have quality numbers too, they each have their longest runs equal to Ole Miss's second back Judkins Woody has 1 more TD than both Evans and Judkins they average more yards per rush in an offense tailored for running the football

[BlackSailsDawg]

They aren't even in the top half of the sec. OM probably has 2 better right now in this state... 1 for sure


Marks

Grade:

3rd Round


https://www.si.com/nfl/draft/scouting-reports/joquaviousmarks

[Cooterpoot]

They didn't shut anything down. We did that to ourselves. A few examples:



The sack put us way behind the chains.




Dropped pass.



Dropped pass... stopped the drive. Not Pass defended. Dropped pass.

OK, 4 dropped balls cost us the game***. They ate this offense up the second half. Sacks are easy when you know what play we're running.

[BlackSailsDawg]

OK, 4 dropped balls cost us the game***. They ate this offense up the second half. Sacks are easy when you know what play we're running.

No Cooter. More than dropped passes contributed to our losing the game. It was also a muffed punt. It was also the lack of an edge rush. It was also the lack of discipline at times by our LBs... It was also the lack of pass blocking at times by Woody Marks. It was many things.

But LSU did not shut us down and thus the loss. We did enough of that on our own.

[msstate7]

Marks

Grade:

3rd Round


https://www.si.com/nfl/draft/scouting-reports/joquaviousmarks

I hope you're right for their sakes. My go to on draft picks is walterfootball, and he doesn't like either YET. It is still early.

https://walterfootball.com/draft2024RB.php

[msstate7]

Marks

Grade:

3rd Round


https://www.si.com/nfl/draft/scouting-reports/joquaviousmarks

There were 7 RBs taken in the top 3 rounds last year in the draft.

[Coach34]

Good thread. Needed this around here. Good points made on both sides

October will really show us what's what

[TrapGame]

And to you Cohen - I'm not mad at the hire - I hoped it would work but had my doubts. But I will hold you accountable if we don't make a change. It's the equivalent to hiring a baseball coach that never bunts and never utilizes pitching matchups.

Leach isn't going anywhere unless we completely implode this season and finish 6-6 with a third consecutive loss to OM. Then he will be asked to "retire". And if that comes to fruition I'm 100% behind it.

[Homedawg]

Woody Marks and Dillon Johnson will both be NFL backs. At least one of our wide receivers will be drafted, I feel like the last wide receiver we had drafted was Eric Moulds so yes we are more talented in those rooms

It's way more likely neither of those guys make a roster in the NFL than both do. Solid college players. That's about it. RaRa is a possibility. Past that don't see a guy that's a sure fire pick.

[Homedawg]

They aren't even in the top half of the sec. OM probably has 2 better right now in this state... 1 for sure

2. The Fr might be better than Evans before all is said and done.

[Homedawg]

Marks

Grade:

3rd Round


https://www.si.com/nfl/draft/scouting-reports/joquaviousmarks

Is that the same group that said Jamal Peters was a third round pick? All the while I'm saying he'd go undrafted and never play in the NFL........

[FISHDAWG]

Good thread. Needed this around here. Good points made on both sides

October will really show us what's what

we played barely good enough to win for 3 quarters and had the lead .... LSU scored right before the half but it's not easy to shut out an SEC blue-blood for an entire half especially when our coach is going for it on 4th down on our side of the 35 yd line - even so, the third qtr wasn't to bad as defense still held firm...... the mistake to start the 4th quarter is what's causing this entire conversation. That 4th quarter crap is causing this negativity .... if we don't muff that punt and hung on to win then we would be reading about how good this team is .... We have always been a 7-5 team hoping for 8-4 and praying for a miracle 9-3 ....... 10-2 was NEVER going to happen.
You're right though - good discussion here but everyone needs to remember that Leach is doing the best with what he has ... BUT LEACH NEEDS TO MAKE BETTER DECISIONS and add some innovation

[NCDawg]

Lack speed at LB, edge, and safety? Who's left? DL gets very little pressure with a 3 man front and sometimes even when we send the house. What happened to the fast, tough DE's I read about in the preseason? I think our preseason hype was about the worse I have ever fallen for since my first game attended in 1963. Year may get tougher fast.

I agree the lack of speed and strength on our Defense is telling. We can't get to the QB and he has all day to find a receiver open. If LSU had a more accurate QB, they would have beaten us worse than they did. I don't think we will be very competitive against Alabama and Georgia. They are faster and stronger than we are.

[Coach34]

0-2 was NEVER going to happen.

Had we not dropped the punt we'd be 3-0 and everybody would be talking about being 4-0 against A&M and how 10 wins is definitely in play

[BlackSailsDawg]

Had we not dropped the punt we'd be 3-0 and everybody would be talking about being 4-0 against A&M and how 10 wins is definitely in play

Truth. Same could be said about the end of the half drive. We come out in the 3rd different. LSU doesn't come out as pumped.



But again, we are building a program. Part of that means that we learn how to win. Were we good enough to win as a team? Yes. But the moment was bigger.

[Cooterpoot]

The punt changed momentum but it didn't cost us the game. This is a damn veteran team that should be mentally tougher than the shit show we saw the second half. Go take that momentum back. We didn't even put up a fight the second half. Folded like a cheap lawn chair.

[dawgman15]

LSU had puckered butt holes until the muffed punt to end the 3rd and Tiger Stadium woke up as Calling Baton Rouge played across the stadium at the beginning of the 4th that was the swing in the game

[BlackSailsDawg]

The punt changed momentum but it didn't cost us the game. This is a damn veteran team that should be mentally tougher than the shit show we saw the second half. Go take that momentum back. We didn't even put up a fight the second half. Folded like a cheap lawn chair.

See we can agree on some things. This team needs to learn to close in the big games. Learn to play with the lead and finish.

[TrapGame]

LSU had puckered butt holes until the muffed punt to end the 3rd and Tiger Stadium woke up as Calling Baton Rouge played across the stadium at the beginning of the 4th that was the swing in the game

Yep. That muffed punt was the game changer.

My counter to this thread is: The real problem is you can't drop five passes for nice gains and muff a punt in Death Valley and expect to win. Catch those five passes, don't muff the punt and we win.

[PMDawg]

No it's not. This scheme is ancient. So much so, there is no "scheme". It's line up and run the same handful of plays over and over. We don't do anything to help ourselves. Even the LSU players said so. They knew what we were going to do and that we kept trying the same things over and over. That's why they basically shut it down after the first half.

I was corrected the other day and told that Leach was hired BECAUSE his offense is innovative, when I claimed it WAS innovative 20-25 years ago but is now just antiquated and inefficient.

[PMDawg]

You boys can talk about Will all you want But it's a moot point. Period. It's sad that the most accurate passer we have ever had is getting wasted in a faulty offensive scheme and here's the reasons why.

1) This offense does not exploit mismatches. The college game is won by those who know how to circle weaknesses on teams and exploit them. Instead, we run what we run and focus on execution and don't exploit other teams weaknesses or game plan to exploit them on a detailed level.

2) If the other teams ends are better than our tackles, that is possibly the game. Arizona got us in a tight spot because of this. Their DL was the only talent they had and it nearly exploited our offense at times. Good defenses like Georgia, alabama and LSU will win every time. We make it so easy on DCs - they just pin their ears back and come after us every play. We just let our tackles live on an island and hope they win. And if they don't, so be it. A running back can't chip an SEC defensive end. We don't bootleg. We rarely run play action. We don't run inside screens. We rarely run draws. We don't make defenses back off in any way. They have learned to let linebackers sit down in coverage but still play close enough to be effective in our few run plays. Our guards essentially are a waste of a body on many pass plays. That's a mismatch to the advantage of the DC - think about it - - we have two blockers nearly every play that don't even account for anyone. That's why they can cover 5-6 with 8. Its INSANITY.

3) Tight Ends - name me a good team at any level of football that doesn't have an effective tight end. A good tight end would really change this offense. Ends and linebackers would have to start paying better attention and they couldn't just pin their ears back. He would be an extra dump route outside of the running back. I don't know why we don't just put one of our bigger receivers there to chip and create some disguise at times.

4) We don't have an OC and therefore no creative play making. We just focus on repetition and execution. It's like only taking one tool to a job when you might need a dozen different things. This offense could be killer at our current talent level if we could just make defenses keep guessing. Instead they generally know what we are doing, they just have to stop it. Think about that. They know what we are going to do week in and week out. Saban was able to alter his defense last year in one week of practice because he knew exactly what we were going to do so he took advantage. The offense is a sitting duck to good coaches with average talent. You can make confident calls when you aren't guessing what we are going to do next. And again - make me a good team at any level that doesn't have a good OC.

I'm done with Leach - this offense is a joke against good teams. Good DCs will eat us alive going forward. Our talent and experience are the only thing that will keep us in games. The coaching will not. We have a coach that has not changed anything in 20 years and I again would love for you to point me to a coach that has found consistent success without adapting. Even the best coaches with the best talent adapt. It's really a disservice for him to get paid what he is making and not put in the work to change and adapt to beat good teams. That's his job.

*Like button*

[Goldendawg]

The punt changed momentum but it didn't cost us the game. This is a damn veteran team that should be mentally tougher than the shit show we saw the second half. Go take that momentum back. We didn't even put up a fight the second half. Folded like a cheap lawn chair.

"Veteran team", means a year older but not always a year better. Looks like we have some potential in the last 2 recruiting classes, but they were ranked # 25ish. This year we are stuck at #39 and the list of remaining HS players "warm" to us looks slim. Herein lies the problem. We need to take some of our record $EC yearly check and spend a lot more on recruiting now! According to our list of top targets on Genespage, we don't even go after many 4 stars. Hail State!

[NCDawg]

I was corrected the other day and told that Leach was hired BECAUSE his offense is innovative, when I claimed it WAS innovative 20-25 years ago but is now just antiquated and inefficient.

Prerequisite for Leach's offense-good accurate passing QB, OL that gives the QB time to pass, good speedy W/R's that can catch. If one of those 3 fails, it ain't going to work.

[Goldendawg]

Prerequisite for Leach's offense-good accurate passing QB, OL that gives the QB time to pass, good speedy W/R's that can catch. If one of those 3 fails, it ain't going to work.

I also thought by mistake that the "Air Raid" stretched the field with some exciting long passes. So far not so much, and it seems to need to need to rely on 12 to 14 play drives of short to intermediate pass completions to succeed. Having issues against strong SEC defenses with aggressive corners and a quick DE, but other O's have this issue also. We also need more team speed at LB, DE, & Safety asap. Hail State!

[Cowbell]

No it's not. This scheme is ancient. So much so, there is no "scheme". It's line up and run the same handful of plays over and over. We don't do anything to help ourselves. Even the LSU players said so. They knew what we were going to do and that we kept trying the same things over and over. That's why they basically shut it down after the first half.

You get it man - you saw it before nearly anyone. I don't know why this is so complicated for people to understand.

[Cowbell]

I also thought by mistake that the "Air Raid" stretched the field with some exciting long passes. So far not so much, and it seems to need to need to rely on 12 to 14 play drives of short to intermediate pass completions to succeed. Having issues against strong SEC defenses with aggressive corners and a quick DE, but other O's have this issue also. We also need more team speed at LB, DE, & Safety asap. Hail State!

The reason this offense doesn't stretch the field is because teams can play zone with two high safeties. There will be no stretching the field in this league. You are seeing the same thing in the nfl now.

[PMDawg]

Prerequisite for Leach's offense-good accurate passing QB, OL that gives the QB time to pass, good speedy W/R's that can catch. If one of those 3 fails, it ain't going to work.

All true. But also true is that when you throw it 60 times in a game, you run a high risk of negative plays (sacks, interceptions, drops, quick 3 and outs, holding penalties, etc.). The way Will runs the offense, it's lower risk and lower reward. With QBs who push the ball down the field, the risk/reward goes up. That's why you see huge blowouts, weird outcomes (Leach upsetting, Leach being upset), furious comebacks, etc. in Leach games. It's completely unpredictable from game to game and almost impossible to sustain across an entire season. Especially if you account for weather and other outside variables. Those saying Will isn't the answer - well, they're correct if they think the answer is pushing the ball down the field and turning this offense into the higher risk higher reward version. But the problems don't go away.

[R2Dawg]

You boys can talk about Will all you want But it's a moot point. Period. It's sad that the most accurate passer we have ever had is getting wasted in a faulty offensive scheme and here's the reasons why.

1) This offense does not exploit mismatches. The college game is won by those who know how to circle weaknesses on teams and exploit them. Instead, we run what we run and focus on execution and don't exploit other teams weaknesses or game plan to exploit them on a detailed level.

2) If the other teams ends are better than our tackles, that is possibly the game. Arizona got us in a tight spot because of this. Their DL was the only talent they had and it nearly exploited our offense at times. Good defenses like Georgia, alabama and LSU will win every time. We make it so easy on DCs - they just pin their ears back and come after us every play. We just let our tackles live on an island and hope they win. And if they don't, so be it. A running back can't chip an SEC defensive end. We don't bootleg. We rarely run play action. We don't run inside screens. We rarely run draws. We don't make defenses back off in any way. They have learned to let linebackers sit down in coverage but still play close enough to be effective in our few run plays. Our guards essentially are a waste of a body on many pass plays. That's a mismatch to the advantage of the DC - think about it - - we have two blockers nearly every play that don't even account for anyone. That's why they can cover 5-6 with 8. Its INSANITY.

3) Tight Ends - name me a good team at any level of football that doesn't have an effective tight end. A good tight end would really change this offense. Ends and linebackers would have to start paying better attention and they couldn't just pin their ears back. He would be an extra dump route outside of the running back. I don't know why we don't just put one of our bigger receivers there to chip and create some disguise at times.

4) We don't have an OC and therefore no creative play making. We just focus on repetition and execution. It's like only taking one tool to a job when you might need a dozen different things. This offense could be killer at our current talent level if we could just make defenses keep guessing. Instead they generally know what we are doing, they just have to stop it. Think about that. They know what we are going to do week in and week out. Saban was able to alter his defense last year in one week of practice because he knew exactly what we were going to do so he took advantage. The offense is a sitting duck to good coaches with average talent. You can make confident calls when you aren't guessing what we are going to do next. And again - make me a good team at any level that doesn't have a good OC.

I'm done with Leach - this offense is a joke against good teams. Good DCs will eat us alive going forward. Our talent and experience are the only thing that will keep us in games. The coaching will not. We have a coach that has not changed anything in 20 years and I again would love for you to point me to a coach that has found consistent success without adapting. Even the best coaches with the best talent adapt. It's really a disservice for him to get paid what he is making and not put in the work to change and adapt to beat good teams. That's his job.

You pretty much nailed it. My biggest beef is his approach to it all. He will not gameplan to do anything to leverage his strengths or exploit what other team does. His answer is just repeat and do what I do better or perfect. His goal to end his career is to prove to the world that his un-altered O scheme can win in the SEC. He has said this indirectly many times if you listen to what he is saying. That is why he will not adapt. Others coaches run parts of this scheme but don't sell out. His O will work on weak Ds in Pac10 and Big12.

Good NFL type SECD with tweaking coaches will beat us everytime. Dumb SEC coaches will not (ala LSU the first game) then Ark and UK showed everyone else how to defend Leach with an SECD. Leach has shown a little bend with run game but he can't help it. He gets first and goal inside 5 and he throws it 3 straight times when he been gashing AZ all game.

All this I still hope we win enough because I want MSU to win more than I want some scheme to work or not. Just MSU win. I just see a handicap and I don't like MSU being handicapped.

[R2Dawg]

The punt changed momentum but it didn't cost us the game. This is a damn veteran team that should be mentally tougher than the shit show we saw the second half. Go take that momentum back. We didn't even put up a fight the second half. Folded like a cheap lawn chair.

Agree. We still could have scored on O and got momentum back and won the game but we didn't and couldn't.

[R2Dawg]

Woody Marks and Dillon Johnson will both be NFL backs. At least one of our wide receivers will be drafted, I feel like the last wide receiver we had drafted was Eric Moulds so yes we are more talented in those rooms

I like Dillon but he is way to slow to make NFL. It the power football days of Jackie and Mullen. Dillion is running 4th team. Woody got an outside shot.

Back to Moulds. Give me a stud WR and power running game like back then and we can do some damage. Moulds demanded double and triple teams at times he was so dominant.

[R2Dawg]

OK, 4 dropped balls cost us the game***. They ate this offense up the second half. Sacks are easy when you know what play we're running.

and when you put three DL on the end and we have 2 to block 3 and we never exploited the middle of the field to make them pay.

[TrapGame]

and when you put three DL on the end and we have 2 to block 3 and we never exploited the middle of the field to make them pay.

Yes, we ****ing did and Rufus dropped the ball once and Will took sacks instead of passing the ball to Rufus who was still the **** open in the middle almost every damn time. It was there and we didn't take it. Will has to make those throws instead of taking a sack and Rufus has to catch them. We totally shit the bed in the second half. It's not all on coaches. The players have to make the plays.

[Cowbell]

2. The Fr might be better than Evans before all is said and done.

My thoughts as well. How he was looked over is astonishing

[Cowbell]

Leach isn't going anywhere unless we completely implode this season and finish 6-6 with a third consecutive loss to OM. Then he will be asked to "retire". And if that comes to fruition I'm 100% behind it.

That's 100% a possibility at this point

[Cowbell]

I was corrected the other day and told that Leach was hired BECAUSE his offense is innovative, when I claimed it WAS innovative 20-25 years ago but is now just antiquated and inefficient.

There is not one thing innovative in our offensive scheme as it relates to current times

[Cowbell]

Prerequisite for Leach's offense-good accurate passing QB, OL that gives the QB time to pass, good speedy W/R's that can catch. If one of those 3 fails, it ain't going to work.

Which is why innovation is for winners. You innovate to compensate

[dawgday166]

Which is why innovation is for winners. You innovate to compensate

So which current offenses do you consider innovative? What are they doing so different from most that makes them so "innovative"? (other than have mobile QBs, good Olines, and very good WRs).

Things I remember from the Mullen era:

1) An anonymous poll of SEC coaches about other coaches and when asked about Dan one coach said he was easy to defend. He did the same things every game and didn't change anything.

2) When Mullen would be interviewed when his offense wasn't working that well (which was mostly the norm) he'd always say there wasn't anything wrong with the offense, they just weren't executing. Reporters or whatnot would make suggestions similar to what is in this thread and he'd blow them off and say "We just need to execute". Seems like that is what Leach says now. Also seems like that is what Saban said against Texas the other day. Probably need to fire Saban for that offensive performance against Texas a couple of weeks ago ... Pathetic.

3) A ton of message board threads like this about Mullen's offense.

Dan won with defense.
His total offense ranked 69, 42, 84, 80, 42, 8, 31, 44, 46.
His scoring offenses ranked 72, 48, 72, 60, 70, 16, 33, 56, 41

Leach last year:
Total offense: 28
Scoring offense: 60

Leach last 2 years at Washington St
Total offense: 27, 7
Scoring offense: 15, 11

[BlackSailsDawg]

Yes, we ****ing did and Rufus dropped the ball once and Will took sacks instead of passing the ball to Rufus who was still the **** open in the middle almost every damn time. It was there and we didn't take it. Will has to make those throws instead of taking a sack and Rufus has to catch them. We totally shit the bed in the second half. It's not all on coaches. The players have to make the plays.


RaRa dropped one too.


YEP.. Collective effort to not win

[BlackSailsDawg]

So which current offenses do you consider innovative? What are they doing so different from most that makes them so "innovative"? (other than have mobile QBs, good Olines, and very good WRs).

Things I remember from the Mullen era:

1) An anonymous poll of SEC coaches about other coaches and when asked about Dan one coach said he was easy to defend. He did the same things every game and didn't change anything.

2) When Mullen would be interviewed when his offense wasn't working that well (which was mostly the norm) he'd always say there wasn't anything wrong with the offense, they just weren't executing. Reporters or whatnot would make suggestions similar to what is in this thread and he'd blow them off and say "We just need to execute". Seems like that is what Leach says now. Also seems like that is what Saban said against Texas the other day. Probably need to fire Saban for that offensive performance against Texas a couple of weeks ago ... Pathetic.

3) A ton of message board threads like this about Mullen's offense.

Dan won with defense.
His total offense ranked 69, 42, 84, 80, 42, 8, 31, 44, 46.
His scoring offenses ranked 72, 48, 72, 60, 70, 16, 33, 56, 41

Leach last year:
Total offense: 28
Scoring offense: 60

Leach last 2 years at Washington St
Total offense: 27, 7
Scoring offense: 15, 11

Winner!


Building a program takes time. Last year showed flashes. So far, we have won the ones we should have, and lost a close on on the road. Now we get to see the heart of this team and if they can get back on track!

[Cowbell]

So which current offenses do you consider innovative? What are they doing so different from most that makes them so "innovative"? (other than have mobile QBs, good Olines, and very good WRs).

Things I remember from the Mullen era:

1) An anonymous poll of SEC coaches about other coaches and when asked about Dan one coach said he was easy to defend. He did the same things every game and didn't change anything.

2) When Mullen would be interviewed when his offense wasn't working that well (which was mostly the norm) he'd always say there wasn't anything wrong with the offense, they just weren't executing. Reporters or whatnot would make suggestions similar to what is in this thread and he'd blow them off and say "We just need to execute". Seems like that is what Leach says now. Also seems like that is what Saban said against Texas the other day. Probably need to fire Saban for that offensive performance against Texas a couple of weeks ago ... Pathetic.

3) A ton of message board threads like this about Mullen's offense.

Dan won with defense.
His total offense ranked 69, 42, 84, 80, 42, 8, 31, 44, 46.
His scoring offenses ranked 72, 48, 72, 60, 70, 16, 33, 56, 41

Leach last year:
Total offense: 28
Scoring offense: 60

Leach last 2 years at Washington St
Total offense: 27, 7
Scoring offense: 15, 11

Why are you talking about Mullen - my comments were aimed towards Leach. But since you brought it up, Mullen did utilize what talent he had. The problem with him is his play calling was predictable and he was too conservative against the good teams.

[Maroonthirteen]

Yes, we ****ing did and Rufus dropped the ball once and Will took sacks instead of passing the ball to Rufus who was still the **** open in the middle almost every damn time. It was there and we didn't take it. Will has to make those throws instead of taking a sack and Rufus has to catch them. We totally shit the bed in the second half. It's not all on coaches. The players have to make the plays.

I remember the drop. However give some details on the other plays where he was supposedly wide open and Rogers took a sack. Quarter, time, down and distance?

[dawgday166]

Why are you talking about Mullen - my comments were aimed towards Leach. But since you brought it up, Mullen did utilize what talent he had. The problem with him is his play calling was predictable and he was too conservative against the good teams.

I believe that is what Leach is doing too. Mullen did it so well that his offensive ranks were what they were.

My original question was about innovative offenses, not Mullen. I put that in there about Mullen (and Saban) to show that all coaches run what they run. I can't tell that Napier has changed anything from what he normally runs. Kirby still has a base old school offense to some degree. The differences are in players and mobile QBs. Yet Leach historically doesn't have great players yet his offensive ranks are real high regardless. He topped all the Mullen years (except 2014) in total O last year.

[preachermatt83]

I?m now dumber for having read this original post

[Cowbell]

I?m now dumber for having read this original post

This comment backs that up lol

[Cowbell]

I believe that is what Leach is doing too. Mullen did it so well that his offensive ranks were what they were.

My original question was about innovative offenses, not Mullen. I put that in there about Mullen (and Saban) to show that all coaches run what they run. I can't tell that Napier has changed anything from what he normally runs. Kirby still has a base old school offense to some degree. The differences are in players and mobile QBs. Yet Leach historically doesn't have great players yet his offensive ranks are real high regardless. He topped all the Mullen years (except 2014) in total O last year.

Leach utilizes talent that fits what he wants to do. He doesn't shape the offense to the strength of the talent we have and to help compensate for where we lack. Examples would be 1)designing plays to get pressure off the right tackle when he's getting man-handled, 2) running plays to slow the defense from bull rushing every play, 3)using our speed guy to catch punts instead of AW, 4) not running off the solid tight ends he inherited when he got here, 5)shortening splits to help with the tackles when he got here, 6)running the football with the rb duo we currently have, 7)rolling Will out by design to help him get out of the pocket and get comfortable keeping plays alive, keeping defenses honest by running more to get defenses to be honest and allow our talented receivers to get mismatches and stretch the field.

[TrapGame]

I remember the drop. However give some details on the other plays where he was supposedly wide open and Rogers took a sack. Quarter, time, down and distance?

How bout you go back and watch the game and see it for yourself.

[dawgday166]

Leach utilizes talent that fits what he wants to do. He doesn't shape the offense to the strength of the talent we have and to help compensate for where we lack. Examples would be 1)designing plays to get pressure off the right tackle when he's getting man-handled, 2) running plays to slow the defense from bull rushing every play, 3)using our speed guy to catch punts instead of AW, 4) not running off the solid tight ends he inherited when he got here, 5)shortening splits to help with the tackles when he got here, 6)running the football with the rb duo we currently have, 7)rolling Will out by design to help him get out of the pocket and get comfortable keeping plays alive, keeping defenses honest by running more to get defenses to be honest and allow our talented receivers to get mismatches and stretch the field.

Which goes back to what I said. Coaches are gonna run what they run. BTW ... Just watched parts of 2nd half. The splits are about half of what they used to be. Not terribly wide really.

Actually did see mesh on one play and Will threw to wrong receiver..the other one was wide open. Will was in too big a hurry. Plays were there to be made. Dropped balls, throwing to wrong receiver, lack of execution was the problem.

Had some daylight on sweeps a couple of times briefly but LSU DBs ate up our WRs who were blocking them. Players matter.

Now we can bitch about coaching cause execution isn't happening crisply but it isn't the offensive concepts. But that would most likely be the case with any coach this long into their tenure at MSU.

ETA: Will was also telegraphing his throws a good bit too.

[PMDawg]

This comment backs that up lol

No, no, totally dismissing an opposing view without any discourse whatsoever is the #1 sign of high intelligence.

[WhiskeyPirate]

No, no, totally dismissing an opposing view without any discourse whatsoever is the #1 sign of high intelligence.

Happens a lot

[PikeDawg15]

I posted about this the week before the game. Started a topic on it. The only way that LSU wins the game is if we do not contain him and keep our discipline on the edges. If he is able to run to the edges, he alone will win the game. I also posted that is is not an inaccurate passer that his issue is not seeing the field. We lack speed in certain positions. LB, Edge, Safety. The only way to win those battles is not allow him outside. First half, we did a good job at it. Last drive of the half, we did not.


2nd & 2 at LSU 33

(1:44 - 2nd) Jayden Daniels run for 13 yds to the LSU 46 for a 1ST down

2nd & 7 at LSU 49

(1:20 - 2nd) Jayden Daniels run for 15 yds to the MisSt 36 for a 1ST down


2nd & 2 at MSST 28

(0:55 - 2nd) Jayden Daniels run for 20 yds to the MisSt 8 for a 1ST down


LSU has a better Roster than we do over all. We are matching them in certain areas. Leach has done a great job in picking up our WR, RB, and QB rooms. What's nice is he bit the bullet and is setting to stage for consistency from year to year. Yes, we will have a lot gone after this year, but we will replace those with people who have been here in the systems for a few years.

Let's take Sawyer. Sawyer will take over and he will be more than ready. He came here because of Leach and the system. Same with Locke... Same with Parson. All of those will be ready and the drop off should not be massive. The area for improvement will be the OL. We are not Bama, UGA. We have to think long term stability build to our program. Stoops, Clawson, Mullen at MSU. We will set our program back to the Croom ages with a revolving door.

Now on defense, defense is a bigger concern for me. We are playing mainly with recruits pre Leach/Arnett on the DL and LB. We need speed.

Shorter story, our recruiting needs to improve on OL, Edge, LBs, Safety.

I think the wide receiver and skill positions in this offense will recruit themselves.

What we have to do with NIL is go and stack up on Offensive lineman , will need to get some from the portal this offseason also.

Go out and get 2 5 star OT's with NIL and it would improve a lot.

Mississippi has some good recruits coming up in 2024 and 2025, I think in 2024 there will be around 3-4 5 stars in the State. Can we get 2 of them?

[PikeDawg15]

I dont know specifics of how NIL works exactly but I know some people who have contributed or offered to do NIL for recruits.

A Car Dealership outside of Hattiesburg offered to pay Myles Brennan 150K in NIL to transfer to Southern Miss for 1 season last year.

It didn't work but they did that without contacting any University officials.

[BlackSailsDawg]

I think the wide receiver and skill positions in this offense will recruit themselves.

What we have to do with NIL is go and stack up on Offensive lineman , will need to get some from the portal this offseason also.

Go out and get 2 5 star OT's with NIL and it would improve a lot.

Mississippi has some good recruits coming up in 2024 and 2025, I think in 2024 there will be around 3-4 5 stars in the State. Can we get 2 of them?


Exactly. We need an improved OL and the ability to coach them up. It seems we have been dealing with what we have.

And let's not forget the DL and LBs....

[BlackSailsDawg]

I dont know specifics of how NIL works exactly but I know some people who have contributed or offered to do NIL for recruits.

A Car Dealership outside of Hattiesburg offered to pay Myles Brennan 150K in NIL to transfer to Southern Miss for 1 season last year.

It didn't work but they did that without contacting any University officials.

LOL.. It's just a shopping center now!

Either play the game or live with what we get. There's no in between.

[WhiskeyPirate]

Exactly. We need an improved OL and the ability to coach them up. It seems we have been dealing with what we have.

And let's not forget the DL and LBs....
Defense is still solid. Some of the young O line will be very good, similar to what Arkansas has when they are 3rd 4th year players. I’m hoping Percy Lewis is ready next year.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Defense is still solid. Some of the young O line will be very good, similar to what Arkansas has when they are 3rd 4th year players. I’m hoping Percy Lewis is ready next year.

We need LBs and Edge rusher that has more speed. It's why Daniels looked like the Flash running around the edge and Charlton looked like he was running in mud.


For Ole Miss, Our DL is good. You don't run at our DL... Simply can't do it.

[WhiskeyPirate]

We need LBs and Edge rusher that has more speed. It's why Daniels looked like the Flash running around the edge and Charlton looked like he was running in mud.


For Ole Miss, Our DL is good. You don't run at our DL... Simply can't do it.
Russell is our only speed rusher off the edge right ? Other than when they bring Wheat up on a blitz.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Russell is our only speed rusher off the edge right ? Other than when they bring Wheat up on a blitz.


It doesn't help that we are down 2 starters on the DL. Against LSU, Jordan was out and Crumedy. I 100% believe Jordan gets to Daniels on some of his scrambles. I believe Page is faster than all of our starting LBs, but he has to know his assignments. His PT is increasing though. John Lewis. I hope he is the beast he is advertised to be.