Here's the Most Disappointing Thing About Will Rogers to me

[Todd4State]

I can't remember who said it or where I saw it but anyway it was a quote that LSU "did some things on film that we hadn't seen before".

Now, I get why film study is important. Obviously.

BUT with Will at the stage he is at in his career I expect him to be able to adapt to what other teams are doing very quickly. Whether it's on film or not. There is always a solution in this offense and he has to be able to find that. If he was a freshman I get it. But he has been here three years now. It's time for him to stop looking like a scared and confused puppy out there and start making some plays.

[Cowbell]

I can't remember who said it or where I saw it but anyway it was a quote that LSU "did some things on film that we hadn't seen before".

Now, I get why film study is important. Obviously.

BUT with Will at the stage he is at in his career I expect him to be able to adapt to what other teams are doing very quickly. Whether it's on film or not. There is always a solution in this offense and he has to be able to find that. If he was a freshman I get it. But he has been here three years now. It's time for him to stop looking like a scared and confused puppy out there and start making some plays.

There isn't always a solution. When your right tackle is getting owned and your coach doesn't know how to eliminate the pressure with chip blocks or tight ends, you are put in a position to fail. And when you don't roll out, run play action, or inside screens, there's no deception.

[Catfish]

I can't remember who said it or where I saw it but anyway it was a quote that LSU "did some things on film that we hadn't seen before".

Now, I get why film study is important. Obviously.

BUT with Will at the stage he is at in his career I expect him to be able to adapt to what other teams are doing very quickly. Whether it's on film or not. There is always a solution in this offense and he has to be able to find that. If he was a freshman I get it. But he has been here three years now. It's time for him to stop looking like a scared and confused puppy out there and start making some plays.

I would love to see Will do what he did last year in the second half of the Auburn game. We were down 28-7 at the half I think and he put on a show in the second half.

[Todd4State]

I would love to see Will do what he did last year in the second half of the Auburn game. We were down 28-7 at the half I think and he put on a show in the second half.


There isn't always a solution. When your right tackle is getting owned and your coach doesn't know how to eliminate the pressure with chip blocks or tight ends, you are put in a position to fail. And when you don't roll out, run play action, or inside screens, there's no deception.

I think he just needs to play. Like he did against Auburn. Don't think too much. Run the play. Trust the system. There are people open. Smoke and mirrors only get you so far before the other team picks up on that. Even without having extra protection, fakes, bells whistles, this guy in motion and this guy playing in the slot- there are plays to be made. And usually it's a short pass. It's not like we're asking him to make shot plays all the time. That's what is frustrating to me- it's there. I expect a SEC college football QB who has been running any system to be able to complete a 10 yard pass. That's a very basic ask- I wouldn't be surprised if most D2 QB's that are average could do that. All of that other stuff that fans suggest is really just fan service if we're being honest with ourselves. "I want it to look this way because I like that". Moorhead tried to cater to the fans to the point where by the 2019 Egg Bowl we were essentially running the ball every play- and guess what? It looked like shit.

My impression is he's worried about something else. I don't know what. Whether that's impressing people or whether it's throwing an interception or being afraid of being hit- he needs to get over whatever it is.

Because it's the craziest thing to me- he is actually so accurate when he throws the ball downfield if you look at him statistically. But he just rarely does it when it's there.

[dawgday166]

Watched the replay. Paused/Replayed/Paused/Replayed etc.

Oline didn't play well. They're playing slow and usually a guard can't make up his mind who to help in pass pro .. so he ends up not blocking or helping a soul. Tackles struggle with fast edge rushers. We struggle with 5 or 6 to give Will time against 4 ... and then he gets nervous. In run blocking, no lineman is good at blocking LBs on 2nd level. When they pull to lead sweeps they usually end up blocking no one to any extent. RBs outrun them too. Slow afoot.

Didn't run the mesh one time the other night (maybe because it takes a little more time to develop ... don't know). Thought that was bread n butter of air raid. Having said that, there was a lot of open grass for receivers to run to and they didn't always do that, which I'm putting on Will since he's calling/audibling into plays. Will didn't read the D very well all night and was a little off on his throws.

On running plays, Will needs to keep it more. DE/LB ain't paying a lick of attention to him and crashing hard on RBs. That's killing us. Gotta make them pay for that. Will needs to step up and keep it some ... there was plenty of room for him to gain yardage, especially on 3rd or 4th and short yardage. He could've easily made yardage a few times with lots of time to slide before getting hit. He's playing big boy football now so he needs to step up.

WRs dropped passes that should've been caught. Didn't block well on the edges either.

D played pretty solid but no great players. Just a collection of solid players. Not a ton of depth that I see in back 8 players. Good run stopping D but no top tier edge guy or pass rusher. If QB had been more accurate we would've been in bigger trouble than we were.

And then there seems to be the WTF special teams plays. We were still in it till Austin muffed that punt. That was a back breaker and crowd went wild after that too. We came apart then.

D had tough road after muffed punt. I hang this loss primarily on the offense. Leach had a nice, politically correct presser today. He seems to have mellowed since getting into social media doghouse early on. Maybe that's why he's mentioning retiring. It's a different world now. I hope he wasn't as mellow behind closed doors cause IMO some folks, coaches and players, need a good chewing on after the other night.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

If the defense gets a good lick in on Will that usually has a negative effect the rest of the game for him.

[PGHBulldogBG]

I think Will definitely feels a need to impress people. I remember after we beat aTm last year he felt a need to point out to the fanbase that the people criticizing him were wrong after the Memphis and LSU loss. He definitely was defensive and that can be a sign of immaturity and not handling criticism well. That being said, I love Will and I do not put this loss on him. We dropped way too many passes and still have glaring special team issues. My 8-4 prediction still holds true as I predicted we would lose that game. It’s not crazy to think we can win the next 3 home games. Scoring on aTm will be hard, but their offense is bad. Ark has a bad pass defense which benefits us.

[BrunswickDawg]

No offense dawg166 - but anyone wanting Will to keep and run on a read option just wants us to lose and have Will get creamed. Will has no burst when running. Did you see how long it took him to get that 6 yards on his one run Saturday? His running makes Tyler Russell look like a natural in the the dead option

[basedog]

We are not very good in the O-Line, very slow and stiff. With twist in the stunting of the defensive line we are bad at getting our hands or body in front of the defenders. Good example of Marks TD, watch our LT. As long as the defensive front goes straight ahead, we have a chance of protection.
I don't know of any or very few Qb's who like to get hit except the agile running type Qb's. For Will to be successful depends on protection from the O-Line. It's pretty simple for the defense when the offense formation pretty much stays the same play after play. Not having a TE or fullback at least some of the time is brutal in the Sec. Defenses are fast agile and smart, overload like Lsu did with speed and we will get beat most of the time.

[Gypsy_RoadDawg]

I would love to see Will do what he did last year in the second half of the Auburn game. We were down 28-7 at the half I think and he put on a show in the second half.

The Auburn game in the second half was the best I've ever seen the MSU work.

[Maroonthirteen]

"LSU is pretty darn good up front, in their defensive front 7. They created a lot of havoc. If not for Will Rogers, things could have been a lot worse. Because a lot of guys can't get the ball out that quick. He (Rogers) is so good at anticipating, throwing to a spot, trusting and knowing where his guys are."

Tom Luginbill on MSU v LSU 2022

[Maroonthirteen]

I've rewatched the game. I saw one mesh concept. (There may have been more). The pocket collapsed and they had Will wrapped before the receivers reached the mesh point.

[msstate7]

"LSU is pretty darn good up front, in their defensive front 7. They created a lot of havoc. If not for Will Rogers, things could have been a lot worse. Because a lot of guys can't get the ball out that quick. He (Rogers) is so good at anticipating, throwing to a spot, trusting and knowing where his guys are."

Tom Luginbill on MSU v LSU 2022

Guess Tom will name his son after Travis at FSU...

Travis QBR - 88.4
Will QBR - 41.1

[Maroonthirteen]

[QUOTE=msstate7;1449402]Guess Tom will name his son after Travis at FSU...

Travis QBR - 88.4
Will QBR - 41.1[

If y'all will not listen to a former QB and professional analysts..... oh well. Enjoy yourself.

[msstate7]

[QUOTE=msstate7;1449402]Guess Tom will name his son after Travis at FSU...

Travis QBR - 88.4
Will QBR - 41.1[

If y'all will not listen to a former QB and professional analysts..... oh well. Enjoy yourself.
Oh, I'll listen to him. I just find praise on a qb that led a team to under 300 total yards in a college game to ring hollow

[BlackSailsDawg]

[QUOTE=Maroonthirteen;1449405]
Oh, I'll listen to him. I just find praise on a qb that led a team to under 300 total yards in a college game to ring hollow

Axe to grind?


Like it or not, we are not Bama, UGA or LSU. You seem to demand perfection from a non perfect QB who was rated a 3 star. A QB that can not even get his picture on ESPN's page for MS ST Football. You, and some others, seem to demand that we have a national championship team now and do nothing to earn getting there outside of watching the game. Here is what we can do. Fire everybody, hire somebody that has to start the whole process over. And then in 2 year, we can start the process of demanding that he is fired and do that a few times and look back and see a wasted 10 years.

Will is the QB for a reason, Sawyer isn't ready. Why would we ever want to put a top rated QB on the field before he is ready? Why would we want to start the whole process over again? This isn't a case where the coach is showing up drunk (Nebraska) or where a coach has allowed the program to pot and players are leaving practice early because they want to and breaking the eye socket of the starting QB in a fight.

This is a case of a total rebuild to what was needed on defense for a 3-3-5 and a offense that could not throw and catch with massive player issues (listed above). And he is in year 2 (yep.. Covid year doesn't count in my book). We went from 6-7 and being blown out in sec play by Auburn L56-23 , Ten L20-10, LSU L36-13, TAMU L49-30, and Bama L38-7 to competing will all of them but 1 (bama) with mainly Sophomores at the skill positions after having to get rid of players not buying in! LSU L by 3, TAMU won on the road, Ripped the heart out of Auburn! Beat UK. Lost to Ark by 3....

[msstate7]

[QUOTE=msstate7;1449407]

Axe to grind?


Like it or not, we are not Bama, UGA or LSU. You seem to demand perfection from a non perfect QB who was rated a 3 star. A QB that can not even get his picture on ESPN's page for MS ST Football. You, and some others, seem to demand that we have a national championship team now and do nothing to earn getting there outside of watching the game. Here is what we can do. Fire everybody, hire somebody that has to start the whole process over. And then in 2 year, we can start the process of demanding that he is fired and do that a few times and look back and see a wasted 10 years.

Will is the QB for a reason, Sawyer isn't ready. Why would we ever want to put a top rated QB on the field before he is ready? Why would we want to start the whole process over again? This isn't a case where the coach is showing up drunk (Nebraska) or where a coach has allowed the program to pot and players are leaving practice early because they want to and breaking the eye socket of the starting QB in a fight.

This is a case of a total rebuild to what was needed on defense for a 3-3-5 and a offense that could not throw and catch with massive player issues (listed above). And he is in year 2 (yep.. Covid year doesn't count in my book). We went from 6-7 and being blown out in sec play by Auburn L56-23 , Ten L20-10, LSU L36-13, TAMU L49-30, and Bama L38-7 to competing will all of them but 1 (bama) with mainly Sophomores at the skill positions after having to get rid of players not buying in! LSU L by 3, TAMU won on the road, Ripped the heart out of Auburn! Beat UK. Lost to Ark by 3....

Holy F, dude. I didn't even blame will for the loss. The whole offense was trash, and yes, that includes will. Here's his stats for lsu...

24/42 214 yds (5.1 per att) 1 td 1 int
41.1 QBR
103.4 passer rating

That's horrible.

Even will would argue with you that he played well.

ETA... and who was favored in our game with lsu?

[BlackSailsDawg]

[QUOTE=BlackSailsDawg;1449409]

Holy F, dude. I didn't even blame will for the loss. The whole offense was trash, and yes, that includes will. Here's his stats for lsu...

24/42 214 yds (5.1 per att) 1 td 1 int
41.1 QBR
103.4 passer rating

That's horrible.

Even will would argue with you that he played well.

ETA... and who was favored in our game with lsu?

I didn't say you blamed him for the loss. I said you seem to demand perfection from a non perfect 3 star QB who can't even get his picture on ESPN's MSU football page. It's just blank. I don't think anybody would argue that the team as a whole stunk it up. They collectively played bad!

[SPMT]

What Nebraska coach showed up drunk?

[msstate7]

What Nebraska coach showed up drunk?

Maybe he's thinking texas' when he was at usc

[HancockCountyDog]

Blaming Will for the offense's problem is like complaining to the person that handed you your McDonalds, that the food tastes like shit.

Will is running the offense that he is being asked to run with the weapons it has. I genuinely don't know many QB's in the SEC that could be running it better. The shortcomings of the offense are usually because the offense has not adapted and does not have RPO elements that puts pressure on the defense.

Maybe a better analogy would be like if you have a flip phone and are pissed that the flip phone has shitty photos and doesn't have internet access. Guess what, its not the phone's fault, its the person who decided to buy a shit phone. It's not Will's fault that teams are going to come up with schemes that make our offense look like shit.

[msstate7]

Blaming Will for the offense's problem is like complaining to the person that handed you your McDonalds, that the food tastes like shit.

Will is running the offense that he is being asked to run with the weapons it has. I genuinely don't know many QB's in the SEC that could be running it better. The shortcomings of the offense are usually because the offense has not adapted and does not have RPO elements that puts pressure on the defense.

Maybe a better analogy would be like if you have a flip phone and are pissed that the flip phone has shitty photos and doesn't have internet access. Guess what, its not the phone's fault, its the person who decided to buy a shit phone. It's not Will's fault that teams are going to come up with schemes that make our offense look like shit.

Totally absolving will is as dumb as blaming him entirely imo.

You said we would beat lsu all season until we didn't. Why was the offense capable before we lost?

ETA... it sounds like you ready to move on too though, so I'm certainly cool with that. I'd throw the house at Dave clawson. He's proven he can win with a talent deficit using an offense that much better fits the players we typically get here easier than pass first

[TrapGame]

Totally absolving will is as dumb as blaming him entirely imo.

You said we would beat lsu all season until we didn't. Why was the offense capable before we lost?

Damn it. I'm agreeing with 7.

Dogs and cats living together...the end of the world...

Will gets to make changes based on what he sees. He did it a lot last year. And mostly it worked. Saturday night it did not. He made some horrible reads. He had some guys wide open (Rufus several times) but took sacks. That's on him.

[HancockCountyDog]

Totally absolving will is as dumb as blaming him entirely imo.

You said we would beat lsu all season until we didn't. Why was the offense capable before we lost?

I still think we are the better team. We should have won. Some of the decisions were maddening. The 4th down calls, even the one we got were terrible. I'm not sure how that is on Will.

We stopped running the ball after having success in the first half, not sure why. Maybe that is on Will.

I thought Will threw maybe one bad pass - the interception. They rushed 3 and 4 most of the game and we didn't know how to adjust to a man with 3 guys playing zone defense. Sure they mixed in some straight zone, but they played a ton of man coverage with 3 robbers (i know they weren't all playing that, but they were in zone). That is not a look that we have seen a bunch. We didn't make adjustments, usually because we don't have a large playbook. If we are seeing something for the first time, we will normally struggle. If you want to put that on Will, that is fine, but I think it is a coaching issue.

I think we gave up on the run way too early and failed to make adjustments when they simply crashed down on the RB because the QB is zero threat to run with the ball.

Does anyone think LSU is better than us? I just don't think they are very good. Now this doesn't speak well for us, but I just think we will be able to move the ball on teams this year and that our defense is good. Maybe I'm wrong, but we should not have lost on Saturday.

[msstate7]

Damn it. I'm agreeing with 7.

Dogs and cats living together...the end of the world...

Will gets to make changes based on what he sees. He did it a lot last year. And mostly it worked. Saturday night it did not. He made some horrible reads. He had some guys wide open (Rufus several times) but took sacks. That's on him.

You'll be ready to strangle me again by Saturday lol

[TrapGame]

You'll be ready to strangle me again by Saturday lol

LOL! Probably so!!

[dawgday166]

No offense dawg166 - but anyone wanting Will to keep and run on a read option just wants us to lose and have Will get creamed. Will has no burst when running. Did you see how long it took him to get that 6 yards on his one run Saturday? His running makes Tyler Russell look like a natural in the the dead option

He scrambled one time the other night and made 5 to 7 yards and for a 1st down I believe while sliding untouched. He could've pulled a handoff at least twice and done the same thing cause there was a lot of green grass just outside of the crashing LB/DE. JMHO tho. Also IMO, Will just does not ever look to run or really move in pocket either.

Either way ... if he won't/can't pull handoff to make the LB/DE pay the price for crashing, the RB ain't gonna make many yds on the run. Leach needs to figure that out.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I think he just needs to play. Like he did against Auburn. Don't think too much. Run the play. Trust the system. There are people open. Smoke and mirrors only get you so far before the other team picks up on that. Even without having extra protection, fakes, bells whistles, this guy in motion and this guy playing in the slot- there are plays to be made. And usually it's a short pass. It's not like we're asking him to make shot plays all the time. That's what is frustrating to me- it's there. I expect a SEC college football QB who has been running any system to be able to complete a 10 yard pass. That's a very basic ask- I wouldn't be surprised if most D2 QB's that are average could do that. All of that other stuff that fans suggest is really just fan service if we're being honest with ourselves. "I want it to look this way because I like that". Moorhead tried to cater to the fans to the point where by the 2019 Egg Bowl we were essentially running the ball every play- and guess what? It looked like shit.

My impression is he's worried about something else. I don't know what. Whether that's impressing people or whether it's throwing an interception or being afraid of being hit- he needs to get over whatever it is.

Because it's the craziest thing to me- he is actually so accurate when he throws the ball downfield if you look at him statistically. But he just rarely does it when it's there.

He is worried about winning. Jesus people. I realize everyone is QB crazy but it is not a one man game. Some of this has just gotten way out of left field

[BuckyIsAB****]

Watched the replay. Paused/Replayed/Paused/Replayed etc.

Oline didn't play well. They're playing slow and usually a guard can't make up his mind who to help in pass pro .. so he ends up not blocking or helping a soul. Tackles struggle with fast edge rushers. We struggle with 5 or 6 to give Will time against 4 ... and then he gets nervous. In run blocking, no lineman is good at blocking LBs on 2nd level. When they pull to lead sweeps they usually end up blocking no one to any extent. RBs outrun them too. Slow afoot.

Didn't run the mesh one time the other night (maybe because it takes a little more time to develop ... don't know). Thought that was bread n butter of air raid. Having said that, there was a lot of open grass for receivers to run to and they didn't always do that, which I'm putting on Will since he's calling/audibling into plays. Will didn't read the D very well all night and was a little off on his throws.

On running plays, Will needs to keep it more. DE/LB ain't paying a lick of attention to him and crashing hard on RBs. That's killing us. Gotta make them pay for that. Will needs to step up and keep it some ... there was plenty of room for him to gain yardage, especially on 3rd or 4th and short yardage. He could've easily made yardage a few times with lots of time to slide before getting hit. He's playing big boy football now so he needs to step up.

WRs dropped passes that should've been caught. Didn't block well on the edges either.

D played pretty solid but no great players. Just a collection of solid players. Not a ton of depth that I see in back 8 players. Good run stopping D but no top tier edge guy or pass rusher. If QB had been more accurate we would've been in bigger trouble than we were.

And then there seems to be the WTF special teams plays. We were still in it till Austin muffed that punt. That was a back breaker and crowd went wild after that too. We came apart then.

D had tough road after muffed punt. I hang this loss primarily on the offense. Leach had a nice, politically correct presser today. He seems to have mellowed since getting into social media doghouse early on. Maybe that's why he's mentioning retiring. It's a different world now. I hope he wasn't as mellow behind closed doors cause IMO some folks, coaches and players, need a good chewing on after the other night.

We ran mesh and got sacked. We do run inside zone too fast and Will just about pulled one but the RB hit it so fast he couldnt pull it. Will pulled one in the last scrimmage and ran for about 40 yards but some on here think they are faster

[BuckyIsAB****]

Guess Tom will name his son after Travis at FSU...

Travis QBR - 88.4
Will QBR - 41.1
You are the king of meaningless stats with 0 context

[BuckyIsAB****]

[QUOTE=BlackSailsDawg;1449409]

Holy F, dude. I didn't even blame will for the loss. The whole offense was trash, and yes, that includes will. Here's his stats for lsu...

24/42 214 yds (5.1 per att) 1 td 1 int
41.1 QBR
103.4 passer rating

That's horrible.

Even will would argue with you that he played well.

ETA... and who was favored in our game with lsu?

How many drops? How many times did he get sacked when his back foot hit the ground? Context. He has def played better. But this is the same board that was so nuts they came up with rumors about Nick Fitzgeralds preferences too

[WhiskeyPirate]

We ran mesh and got sacked. We do run inside zone too fast and Will just about pulled one but the RB hit it so fast he couldnt pull it. Will pulled one in the last scrimmage and ran for about 40 yards but some on here think they are faster
Will could not out run me and I graduated last century

My rotator cuff is shot from age and decades of pressing weights so I probably can’t out throw him, but I’d give him a run for his money

I think Will is set to go on a good run right now, the receivers have to get a lot more aggressive though. If Duck doesn’t show some more toughness he’s going to get replaced.

[PikeDawg15]

I rewatched a lot of the film from the game saturday after having a few days to lower the negative emotions and dissapointment.

RT got his ass beat the entire night damn near every play and #63 had a lot of plays were he was just standing there guarding nobody.

The difference between us and other teams that have "bad" offensive lines is we do not have a Qb that can roll out of the pocket and either

A. Look downfield for an open receiver
B. Run for positive yardage
C. Throw the balls out of bounds and avoid a sack

Cant do any of those.

Guys like Hendon hooker, bryce young, Jaxson dart ( hes not really good but he can do what is listed above), Will levis, Jayden Daniels, basically all other 13 sec quarterbacks.

Im not saying that Will is a horrible QB by no means but him not being able to do that one thing limits the offense so much and makes us so easier to stop.

[WhiskeyPirate]

I think Albert Reese is going to get some time at RT. BG would be a good opportunity for him to get some experience.

[ScooterDog]

I believe Cowbell said it all. He summed up our problems pretty good I think.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Totally absolving will is as dumb as blaming him entirely imo.

You said we would beat lsu all season until we didn't. Why was the offense capable before we lost?

ETA... it sounds like you ready to move on too though, so I'm certainly cool with that. I'd throw the house at Dave clawson. He's proven he can win with a talent deficit using an offense that much better fits the players we typically get here easier than pass first

And this goes back to what I posted:


You, and some others, seem to demand that we have a national championship team now and do nothing to earn getting there outside of watching the game. Here is what we can do. Fire everybody, hire somebody that has to start the whole process over. And then in 2 year, we can start the process of demanding that he is fired and do that a few times and look back and see a wasted 10 years.

Will is the QB for a reason, Sawyer isn't ready. Why would we ever want to put a top rated QB on the field before he is ready? Why would we want to start the whole process over again? This isn't a case where the coach is showing up drunk (Nebraska) or where a coach has allowed the program to pot and players are leaving practice early because they want to and breaking the eye socket of the starting QB in a fight.

This is a case of a total rebuild to what was needed on defense for a 3-3-5 and a offense that could not throw and catch with massive player issues (listed above). And he is in year 2 (yep.. Covid year doesn't count in my book). We went from 6-7 and being blown out in sec play by Auburn L56-23 , Ten L20-10, LSU L36-13, TAMU L49-30, and Bama L38-7 to competing will all of them but 1 (bama) with mainly Sophomores at the skill positions after having to get rid of players not buying in! LSU L by 3, TAMU won on the road, Ripped the heart out of Auburn! Beat UK. Lost to Ark by 3....


And Now you are throwing out Dave Clawson stating he works with what we recruit.

Dave Clawson has been Wake since 2016. That's 6 years! Yet you don't want to give Leach 6? Why on earth would anybody believe you would be ok with giving Clawson 6 years? His record is not great. In conference play, 26–37 is his record at Wake. He has had 1 winning season in conference play in those years and it was in year 5. His first 3 season... 4-19!

Next you stated "with what we recruit". Leach has raised our recruiting level on offense. We have 2 four star RBs, 7 WRs, and 3 QBs. There is not a season for the next 7 plus years where we will not have a great QB, RB and WRS.

[dawgday166]

And this goes back to what I posted:


You, and some others, seem to demand that we have a national championship team now and do nothing to earn getting there outside of watching the game. Here is what we can do. Fire everybody, hire somebody that has to start the whole process over. And then in 2 year, we can start the process of demanding that he is fired and do that a few times and look back and see a wasted 10 years.

Will is the QB for a reason, Sawyer isn't ready. Why would we ever want to put a top rated QB on the field before he is ready? Why would we want to start the whole process over again? This isn't a case where the coach is showing up drunk (Nebraska) or where a coach has allowed the program to pot and players are leaving practice early because they want to and breaking the eye socket of the starting QB in a fight.

This is a case of a total rebuild to what was needed on defense for a 3-3-5 and a offense that could not throw and catch with massive player issues (listed above). And he is in year 2 (yep.. Covid year doesn't count in my book). We went from 6-7 and being blown out in sec play by Auburn L56-23 , Ten L20-10, LSU L36-13, TAMU L49-30, and Bama L38-7 to competing will all of them but 1 (bama) with mainly Sophomores at the skill positions after having to get rid of players not buying in! LSU L by 3, TAMU won on the road, Ripped the heart out of Auburn! Beat UK. Lost to Ark by 3....


And Now you are throwing out Dave Clawson stating he works with what we recruit.

Dave Clawson has been Wake since 2016. That's 6 years! Yet you don't want to give Leach 6? Why on earth would anybody believe you would be ok with giving Clawson 6 years? His record is not great. In conference play, 26?37 is his record at Wake. He has had 1 winning season in conference play in those years and it was in year 5. His first 3 season... 4-19!

Next you stated "with what we recruit". Leach has raised our recruiting level on offense. We have 2 four star RBs, 7 WRs, and 3 QBs. There is not a season for the next 7 plus years where we will not have a great QB, RB and WRS.

Pretty accurate post. I don't get the Clawson love either. If his conference record is as you state, that's pretty bad when you're in the ACC. And FWIW ... Mullen only had one in conference winning season. He had 2 or 3 break even seasons but only 1 winning season.

ETA: We had our best defense ever that was #1 in the country, a very good returning offense with a returning 1100 yd rusher, all but one returning Olinemen with an NFL stud center, and the 3rd best total offense leader from the year before in 2018 and the new coach took that team to an overall 8-4 / SEC 4-4 record.

We ain't got none of those parts this year.

[SilentSteel16]

To quote Will Rogers, “ this offense will go as far as I go.” He had a bad game, so offense had bad game.

[msstate7]

Pretty accurate post. I don't get the Clawson love either. If his conference record is as you state, that's pretty bad when you're in the ACC. And FWIW ... Mullen only had one in conference winning season. He had 2 or 3 break even seasons but only 1 winning season.

Guess you guys think all schools are equal. WF has 15 bowls in their history; clawson is about to go to his 7th in a row. WF's last HC with a winning % was in the 1930s. Clawson also won a conference title his last year at bowling green before coming to WF.

ETA... I'll at least give credit to leach when I feel he deserves it. You and you blacksails will forgive any and every performance... incapable of seeing any wrong him in, proud parents

[dawgday166]

Guess you guys think all schools are equal. WF has 15 bowls in their history; clawson is about to go to his 7th in a row. WF's last HC with a winning % was in the 1930s. Clawson also won a conference title his last year at bowling green before coming to WF.

ETA... I'll at least give credit to leach when I feel he deserves it. You and you blacksails will forgive any and every performance... incapable of seeing any wrong him in, proud parents

I'm not forgiving the performance. I've said Leach needs to chew on some coaches and players for the other night. I'm comparing Leach mostly to Mullen. And the comparisons are pretty damn close. Jackie set a standard, Croom destroyed it. Mullen built it back up, Moorhead destroyed it. Now it's Leach's turn and he needs some time. Changing out coaches every three years ain't gonna get us nowhere.

Clawson is ok but what makes him great. And if he comes here and does do even what Mullen did ... how much will he shop himself around at the end of the year? How long before he bolts to a blue blood too?

ETA: I will also add that games like the other night happen to every single team in this league not named Bama or GA. It's not like it's a once a decade type of thing. It's more like 10 times or better/season across the whole SEC. That's what playing in the SEC is. You take your auto losses to Bama & GA (and occasionally LSU) and everyone else fights it out for 2nd thru 7th in their respective divisions. And preseason predictions for those 12 slots are mostly bullshit.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Guess you guys think all schools are equal. WF has 15 bowls in their history; clawson is about to go to his 7th in a row. WF's last HC with a winning % was in the 1930s. Clawson also won a conference title his last year at bowling green before coming to WF.

ETA... I'll at least give credit to leach when I feel he deserves it. You and you blacksails will forgive any and every performance... incapable of seeing any wrong him in, proud parents

Clawson went to 3 of those bowls with a losing record in conference play. 2 more of those he was .500. In the ACC! Now you bring up bowling green. His last year was in his 5th year! He finished 32–31 at that stop. This also goes back to your refusal to give a HC time to build the program. I don't see you with the willingness to allow any coach at MSU to go that long while have a 2-10 season and a few 3-9 seasons here.

The ETA is just not true either. At all. Who excused anything? I started a thread here stating the LSU game was a group effort in trying to lose the game. I'm simply capable of understanding that a program is not built in 2 years after the total melt down that was JoMo. Even if Leach had followed Mullen, I have enough knowledge and seen enough history to understand, you don't build a program on the back of a revolving door.

Here is a theme that's being pointed out by you.

Beg Mullen back... Took 5 years to reach a high level and dropped off after that.
Hire Clawson... Took 5 years at BG to reach a 10 win season.
Hire Clawson... Took 6 years to reach a 10 win season... and still has a losing conference record..26–37

YET.. Fire Leach after 1 real season and 3 games in despite seeing the recruiting grades on offense increase and the production over all go up. And no, the Covid year doesn't count.

[msstate7]

I'm not forgiving the performance. I've said Leach needs to chew on some coaches and players for the other night. I'm comparing Leach mostly to Mullen. And the comparisons are pretty damn close. Jackie set a standard, Croom destroyed it. Mullen built it back up, Moorhead destroyed it. Now it's Leach's turn and he needs some time. Changing out coaches every three years ain't gonna get us nowhere.

Clawson is ok but what makes him great. And if he comes here and does do even what Mullen did ... how much will he shop himself around at the end of the year? How long before he bolts to a blue blood too?

ETA: I will also add that games like the other night happen to every single team in this league not named Bama or GA. It's not like it's a once a decade type of thing. It's more like 10 times or better/season across the whole SEC. That's what playing in the SEC is. You take your auto losses to Bama & GA (and occasionally LSU) and everyone else fights it out for 2nd thru 7th in their respective divisions. And preseason predictions for those 12 slots are mostly bullshit.

Every team in the sec besides those 2 jumps out 13-0 close to 2 quarters in, and then gets out scored 31-3 the rest of the way?

[Cowbell]

I rewatched a lot of the film from the game saturday after having a few days to lower the negative emotions and dissapointment.

RT got his ass beat the entire night damn near every play and #63 had a lot of plays were he was just standing there guarding nobody.

The difference between us and other teams that have "bad" offensive lines is we do not have a Qb that can roll out of the pocket and either

A. Look downfield for an open receiver
B. Run for positive yardage
C. Throw the balls out of bounds and avoid a sack

Cant do any of those.

Guys like Hendon hooker, bryce young, Jaxson dart ( hes not really good but he can do what is listed above), Will levis, Jayden Daniels, basically all other 13 sec quarterbacks.

Im not saying that Will is a horrible QB by no means but him not being able to do that one thing limits the offense so much and makes us so easier to stop.

You know what else those offenses have? Tight ends

[WhiskeyPirate]

Every team in the sec besides those 2 jumps out 13-0 close to 2 quarters in, and then gets out scored 31-3 the rest of the way?

What does that even mean ?

Your basing everything on one road game at LSU

[msstate7]

What does that even mean ?

Your basing everything on one road game at LSU

Here was his quote.. "i will also add that games like the other night happen to every single team in this league not named Bama or GA."

That's what that means

[dawgday166]

Every team in the sec besides those 2 jumps out 13-0 close to 2 quarters in, and then gets out scored 31-3 the rest of the way?

It can and does happen sometimes. I'm not happy about it. We melted down the stretch in the toughest night venue in the country. And not one person on this team had every played in that environment.

2017 mostly juniors but with real studs on D. RS Junior QB and RS Junior RB: We smoke LSU and everyone thinks we got shot at SEC W then. Then GA & AU smoke us bad and everyone is calling for Mullen's head (except you of course LOL). Shit happens like that in SEC. The AU comeback last year is one of a kind too. And we were at their place, just like the other night. Just this time we were on the wrong end of it. We fell apart after the muffed punt, crowd went wild, and you probably couldn't even hear yourself think in that stadium. And none of our guys had played in anything like that before.

ETA: Not trying to excuse it but we lost. Gotta pick up the pieces and move to the next game. Wanting to replace the coach after 1 full season & 3 games ain't the answer to that.

[msstate7]

It can and does happen sometimes. I'm not happy about it. We melted down the stretch in the toughest night venue in the country. And not one person on this team had every played in that environment.

2017 mostly juniors but with real studs on D. RS Junior QB and RS Junior RB: We smoke LSU and everyone thinks we got shot at SEC W then. Then GA & AU smoke us bad and everyone is calling for Mullen's head (except you of course LOL). Shit happens like that in SEC. The AU comeback last year is one of a kind too. And we were at their place, just like the other night. Just this time we were on the wrong end of it. We fell apart after the muffed punt, crowd went wild, and you probably couldn't even hear yourself think in that stadium. And none of our guys had played in anything like that before.

We are in no way a young team.

[WhiskeyPirate]

Yes I’d say every team in the sec other than Ga and Bama have blown big leads and got smoked on the road especially at LSU. Mullen got beat by South Alabama.

[msstate7]

Yes I’d say every team in the sec other than Ga and Bama have blown big leads and got smoked on the road especially at LSU. Mullen got beat by South Alabama.

Name a few examples

[Todd4State]

He is worried about winning. Jesus people. I realize everyone is QB crazy but it is not a one man game. Some of this has just gotten way out of left field

Well he needs to step it up a little bit. He looked like he did as a freshman the other night. And I'm a little tired of our players not progressing.

[dawgday166]

We are in no way a young team.

I didn't say it was. I did say they didn't handle it well. And some are kinda young but experienced. Bottom line -- you hate Leach and his offense and are looking for any reason to get rid of him. If this were Mullen ... you'd be defending him till your death.

[msstate7]

I didn't say it was. I did say they didn't handle it well. And some are kinda young but experienced. Bottom line -- you hate Leach and his offense and are looking for any reason to get rid of him. If this were Mullen ... you'd be defending him till your death.

And you vice versa.

ETA... you are right though- I hate this freaking offense. I practically force myself to watch what I once loved. It didn't start with mullen either. I'm not alone either... I just saw you can get lower level tix next week for aTm in section 20 row 4 for under $100 on SeatGeek. The ticket office is practically giving away tickets.

[WhiskeyPirate]

Name a few examples

So your position is no sec team (excluding Bama and Georgia) have ever blown a 13 point lead on the road and gotten smoked. It never happens, especially not in Death Valley ?

Lol

[Todd4State]

Clawson went to 3 of those bowls with a losing record in conference play. 2 more of those he was .500. In the ACC! Now you bring up bowling green. His last year was in his 5th year! He finished 32–31 at that stop. This also goes back to your refusal to give a HC time to build the program. I don't see you with the willingness to allow any coach at MSU to go that long while have a 2-10 season and a few 3-9 seasons here.

The ETA is just not true either. At all. Who excused anything? I started a thread here stating the LSU game was a group effort in trying to lose the game. I'm simply capable of understanding that a program is not built in 2 years after the total melt down that was JoMo. Even if Leach had followed Mullen, I have enough knowledge and seen enough history to understand, you don't build a program on the back of a revolving door.

Here is a theme that's being pointed out by you.

Beg Mullen back... Took 5 years to reach a high level and dropped off after that.
Hire Clawson... Took 5 years at BG to reach a 10 win season.
Hire Clawson... Took 6 years to reach a 10 win season... and still has a losing conference record..26–37

YET.. Fire Leach after 1 real season and 3 games in despite seeing the recruiting grades on offense increase and the production over all go up. And no, the Covid year doesn't count.

I mean the dude thinks that Jimbo Fisher is a good coach.

Pretty funny that Clawson should have been given time but Leach has to win immediately here.

People aren't going to want to hear this- but when you're rebuilding a program five-six years is a reasonable amount of time. That's not to say that we can't win now or shouldn't have played LSU better. What I am saying is there is waaaaayyyy too much knee jerk reaction when it comes to Leach. Every time we lose everyone has to throw in their brilliant idea about how some play or motion would make this offense unstoppable. The reality is for the mobile QB crowd- Leach has that in Robertson. And in time we will have that. And Parson is even more mobile. But Robertson isn't ready yet. Will is the best for now. Even though IMO he needs to be a little more consistent. In time Robertson will be ready. But our fans need to see the big picture here. Which is an impossible ask.

And let me quantify the 5-6 year thing to be perfectly clear- I'm talking a 9-10 win season. Which is in line with Dan when you consider that 2014 happened his sixth season at MSU.

[WhiskeyPirate]

I mean the dude thinks that Jimbo Fisher is a good coach.

Pretty funny that Clawson should have been given time but Leach has to win immediately here.

People aren't going to want to hear this- but when you're rebuilding a program five-six years is a reasonable amount of time. That's not to say that we can't win now or shouldn't have played LSU better. What I am saying is there is waaaaayyyy too much knee jerk reaction when it comes to Leach. Every time we lose everyone has to throw in their brilliant idea about how some play or motion would make this offense unstoppable. The reality is for the mobile QB crowd- Leach has that in Robertson. And in time we will have that. And Parson is even more mobile. But Robertson isn't ready yet. Will is the best for now. Even though IMO he needs to be a little more consistent. In time Robertson will be ready. But our fans need to see the big picture here. Which is an impossible ask.

4-4 seems to be Dans high water mark in the sec and Leach has already done that in really his first full season, I’m not sure where these expectations are coming from honestly.

[msstate7]

So your position is no sec team (excluding Bama and Georgia) have ever blown a 13 point lead on the road and gotten smoked. It never happens, especially not in Death Valley ?

Lol

And yet, you listed none

[Todd4State]

Yes I’d say every team in the sec other than Ga and Bama have blown big leads and got smoked on the road especially at LSU. Mullen got beat by South Alabama.

Actually I remember Georgia under Smart getting absolutely smoked by LSU in Baton Rouge a few years ago. I think that's happened to everyone except maybe Alabama.

[WhiskeyPirate]

And yet, you listed none

It’s stupid on its face, everyone here knows teams have gotten blown out on the road in the sec....at LSU , even if they have a lead. I’m sure if you use Wikipedia you can see for yourself.

[msstate7]

Lane and Pittman took over programs at or below ours, and they have done much better job.

[msstate7]

Actually I remember Georgia under Smart getting absolutely smoked by LSU in Baton Rouge a few years ago. I think that's happened to everyone except maybe Alabama.

Funny how this lsu was really bad last week, and now you guys have them on par with their great teams

[dawgday166]

And you vice versa.

Back then probably so. My issues with Mullen were he never blamed the offense ever while throwing DCs under the bus. Mullen rarely if ever blamed himself (Leach will do that and did in Monday's presser to some extent). Also, Mullen liked to relax on his laurels when he had accomplished a little something (that bit him at FL). And he ALWAYS lost to OM when a big favorite with 8 wins or more under his belt. When he wants to coach he can coach but he can also be pretty lazy at times. Looking back now tho ... I'd probably be more patient now since I fully realize just how much we are primarily a 4 year development cycle type of team to possibly produce a 10 win season. And that is with coaching continuity.

I've actually learned and evaluated my past maybe too quick to judge judgements. Have you? FWIW during the 2nd half of game ... I was pissed as hell at Leach and wanted to fire him myself. But before I posted that I backed up and calmed down a little about it. I realized I should've known Death Valley and our fans' high evaluation of us and low evaluation of LSU were a trap.

[Todd4State]

4-4 seems to be Dans high water mark in the sec and Leach has already done that in really his first full season, I’m not sure where these expectations are coming from honestly.

Leach has close to as many "memorable" wins as well. LSU 2020, Texas A&M, Auburn, Kentucky, and someone pointed out to me today that NC State went 9-3.

It is a bit confusing to me that Dan seemed to get almost a complete pass throughout most of his tenure. Especially when he went job hunting and cost us Egg Bowls doing so. I seriously would have told him to take the Maryland job in 2015 because he obviously wants to leave MSU and can't focus on our team.

Dan made a living beating who he should beat vs Leach who may lose to Memphis but then he'll turn around and beat a couple of really good SEC teams. Leach gives us lower lows but also much higher highs.

[WhiskeyPirate]

Let’s compare apples to apples

Dans first five years in the sec : 3-5, 4-4, 2-6,4-4, 3-5

I think Leach is doing just as well, probably better given Dan went 33-39 in the sec, even with Dak. 4-4 was his high water mark without Dak. leach has already done that.

[Todd4State]

Funny how this lsu was really bad last week, and now you guys have them on par with their great teams

Actually, if you look back at my posts I said that I would never predict a win at LSU. And didn't. Guess I'm pretty smart huh? I learned my lesson in 1998. Probably should have learned it in 1994. Those were far worse LSU teams than this one. And they were definitely worse than MSU those years.

I'm actually talking about the 2018 Georgia team that lost to a good 10-3 LSU team. However, that was a Georgia team that went on to play in the Sugar Bowl and won the SEC East. The score was 36-16. Ironically enough.

And no- I'm not saying we're going to win 10 games.

[msstate7]

Let’s compare apples to apples

Dans first five years in the sec : 3-5, 4-4, 2-6,4-4, 3-5

I think Leach is doing just as well, probably better given Dan went 33-39 in the sec, even with Dak. 4-4 was his high water mark without Dak. leach has already done that.

Little different environment in the sec west back then. LSU and auburn were national contenders, along with bama in Mullen's 1st 3 years. And then you had Petrino at ark.

[WhiskeyPirate]

Leach has close to as many "memorable" wins as well. LSU 2020, Texas A&M, Auburn, Kentucky, and someone pointed out to me today that NC State went 9-3.

It is a bit confusing to me that Dan seemed to get almost a complete pass throughout most of his tenure. Especially when he went job hunting and cost us Egg Bowls doing so. I seriously would have told him to take the Maryland job in 2015 because he obviously wants to leave MSU and can't focus on our team.

Dan made a living beating who he should beat vs Leach who may lose to Memphis but then he'll turn around and beat a couple of really good SEC teams. Leach gives us lower lows but also much higher highs.

I guess somehow running the ball and going 33-39 is some how vastly superior to a spread passing attack.

Conventional rushing offenses are actually more talent on talent and so you have a much lower ceiling at a school like State, especially with NIL factored in. This is why an unconventional attack gives you more bang for your buck.

[WhiskeyPirate]

Little different environment in the sec west back then. LSU and auburn were national contenders, along with bama in Mullen's 1st 3 years. And then you had Petrino at ark.

Sounds like you are responding to facts with excuses.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Name a few examples

While this is not a lost lead, Bama did enter this game a 24 point favorite:

ALABAMA

Date: November 17, 2007
Opponent: Louisiana-Monroe
Result: 21-14


No. 8 Arkansas Scored 28 unanswered points and had a commanding lead.

Date: September 8, 2012
Opponent: Louisiana-Monroe
Result: 34-31 in OT


#13 AUBURN. Scored 13 points... then Vandy came back and won after being down 13-0

Date: October 4, 2008
Opponent: Vanderbilt
Result: 14-13


FLORIDA.... up 10

Date: November 23, 2013
Opponent: Georgia Southern
Result: 26-20

#16 GEORGIA up 10-0

Date: October 14, 2006
Opponent: Vanderbilt
Result: 24-22

OLE MISS was up 31-10.. JSU scored 21 in the 4th to win.

Date: September 4, 2010
Opponent: Jacksonville State University
Result: 49-48




SOUTH CAROLINA... started out 14-0

Date: October 4, 2014
Opponent: Kentucky
Result: 45-38


Need more?

[Todd4State]

Back then probably so. My issues with Mullen were he never blamed the offense ever while throwing DCs under the bus. Mullen rarely if ever blamed himself (Leach will do that and did in Monday's presser to some extent). Also, Mullen liked to relax on his laurels when he had accomplished a little something (that bit him at FL). And he ALWAYS lost to OM when a big favorite with 8 wins or more under his belt. When he wants to coach he can coach but he can also be pretty lazy at times. Looking back now tho ... I'd probably be more patient now since I fully realize just how much we are primarily a 4 year development cycle type of team to possibly produce a 10 win season. And that is with coaching continuity.

I've actually learned and evaluated my past maybe too quick to judge judgements. Have you? FWIW during the 2nd half of game ... I was pissed as hell at Leach and wanted to fire him myself. But before I posted that I backed up and calmed down a little about it. I realized I should've known Death Valley and our fans' high evaluation of us and low evaluation of LSU were a trap.

Actually I had a lot of issues with Dan. You mentioned some of them. At the same time- he reached his ceiling here and moved on. Some of our fans need to as well.

[BlackSailsDawg]

I mean the dude thinks that Jimbo Fisher is a good coach.

Pretty funny that Clawson should have been given time but Leach has to win immediately here.

People aren't going to want to hear this- but when you're rebuilding a program five-six years is a reasonable amount of time. That's not to say that we can't win now or shouldn't have played LSU better. What I am saying is there is waaaaayyyy too much knee jerk reaction when it comes to Leach. Every time we lose everyone has to throw in their brilliant idea about how some play or motion would make this offense unstoppable. The reality is for the mobile QB crowd- Leach has that in Robertson. And in time we will have that. And Parson is even more mobile. But Robertson isn't ready yet. Will is the best for now. Even though IMO he needs to be a little more consistent. In time Robertson will be ready. But our fans need to see the big picture here. Which is an impossible ask.

And let me quantify the 5-6 year thing to be perfectly clear- I'm talking a 9-10 win season. Which is in line with Dan when you consider that 2014 happened his sixth season at MSU.

Agreed! It's like there is no logic or reasoning. But when a person proclaims on a message board that he hates Leach and wants him gone, there will be no reasoning. \

But yep, every side of the ball sucked at some point in the game and they all were at horrible times in the game. We melted. Now let them grow and learn from it.

[Todd4State]

I guess somehow running the ball and going 33-39 is some how vastly superior to a spread passing attack.

Conventional rushing offenses are actually more talent on talent and so you have a much lower ceiling at a school like State, especially with NIL factored in. This is why an unconventional attack gives you more bang for your buck.

For me it's more than that. Long term- we have to show that we can throw the ball. Football is headed in that direction. Do we have to be able to throw 50 times a game? No. But we do need to be functional when we do it.

MSU's general attitude about what "we can only do on offense" hurts us in recruiting big time. It has been a problem as long as I can remember. Leach is slowly changing that though. We're getting more and more 4 star receivers and QB's than even while maintaining our status quo on defense. And I'm really excited about our young o-line prospects. Hevesy and Dan really hurt the coaches that followed them and we've had to scramble to get JUCO's and transfers to fill in gaps. And that's hard to replenish as long as we neglected it. But that's changing too.

[msstate7]

While this is not a lost lead, Bama did enter this game a 24 point favorite:

ALABAMA

Date: November 17, 2007
Opponent: Louisiana-Monroe
Result: 21-14


No. 8 Arkansas Scored 28 unanswered points and had a commanding lead.

Date: September 8, 2012
Opponent: Louisiana-Monroe
Result: 34-31 in OT


#13 AUBURN. Scored 13 points... then Vandy came back and won after being down 13-0

Date: October 4, 2008
Opponent: Vanderbilt
Result: 14-13


FLORIDA.... up 10

Date: November 23, 2013
Opponent: Georgia Southern
Result: 26-20

#16 GEORGIA up 10-0

Date: October 14, 2006
Opponent: Vanderbilt
Result: 24-22

OLE MISS was up 31-10.. JSU scored 21 in the 4th to win.

Date: September 4, 2010
Opponent: Jacksonville State University
Result: 49-48




SOUTH CAROLINA... started out 14-0

Date: October 4, 2014
Opponent: Kentucky
Result: 45-38


Need more?

2007 bama: saban's worst team
2012 ark: 4-8
2008 auburn: 5-7
2013 Florida: 4-8
2006 Georgia: 8-4 (actually decent)

Tired of looking

[BlackSailsDawg]

Actually I remember Georgia under Smart getting absolutely smoked by LSU in Baton Rouge a few years ago. I think that's happened to everyone except maybe Alabama.

This century Alabama at Tiger Stadium, 7 of the 11 games won... lost 4

[WhiskeyPirate]

The SOS in those years where Dan went 3-5,4-4,2-6,4-4,3-5 in the SEC corresponded to #12,#16,#28,#43,#20 SOS

So he had a crappy record against a much easier schedule than the #2 SOS we have this year.

A different environment indeed.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Funny how this lsu was really bad last week, and now you guys have them on par with their great teams

Nope. I stated clearly (because I can only speak for myself) that our defensive weakness was speed on the edges. I specifically stated that if we did not stay home on the edges with discipline that Daniels will beat us and pointed out his pass completion %. That half ending drive was all Daniels doing exactly that.

[dawgday166]

Actually I had a lot of issues with Dan. You mentioned some of them. At the same time- he reached his ceiling here and moved on. Some of our fans need to as well.

I hit the highlights LOL. His time management and 2 minute offenses sucked too. At least we got one of those now haha. One score game in last 2 minutes we actually have a chance now.

And I don't want him back cause historically that never works. Although I'm sure 7 can hunt and search for the one time it did work for another program *****

[msstate7]

The SOS in those years where Dan went 3-5,4-4,2-6,4-4,3-5 in the SEC corresponded to #12,#16,#28,#43,#20 SOS

So he had a crappy record against a much easier schedule than the #2 SOS we have this year.

A different environment indeed.

Where are you getting your SOS rankings?

[Todd4State]

This century Alabama at Tiger Stadium, 7 of the 11 games won... lost 4

Interesting. I would imagine most of those were pre-Saban.

[Todd4State]

I hit the highlights LOL. His time management and 2 minute offenses sucked too. At least we got one of those now haha. One score game in last 2 minutes we actually have a chance now.

And I don't want him back cause historically that never works. Although I'm sure 7 can hunt and search for the one time it did work for another program *****

Yes! I remember how helpless I felt when we were playing Alabama and it was fourth down and everyone knew some type of QB run up the middle was coming.

And it didn't work.

[BlackSailsDawg]

2007 bama: saban's worst team
2012 ark: 4-8
2008 auburn: 5-7
2013 Florida: 4-8
2006 Georgia: 8-4 (actually decent)

Tired of looking

everything you just stated was an excuse. Yes. Saban's worst team, but still a 24 point favorite and they lost. NUMBER 8 Ark lost and the loss sent them into a tail spin because they could not rebound.

You assertion that nobody has ever lost a lead like that in the SEC was proven false.

[WhiskeyPirate]

Where are you getting your SOS rankings?

Are you trying to change the subject rather than address the facts ?

You said it was a different environment when Dan coached its first five years, yes it was, he had a much easier schedule and a poor record IMO.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Are you trying to change the subject rather than address the facts ?

You said it was a different environment when Dan coached its first five years, yes it was, he had a much easier schedule and a poor record IMO.

And what does it even matter? Is he now suggesting that the SEC West just became this hard?

[dawgday166]

And you vice versa.

ETA... you are right though- I hate this freaking offense. I practically force myself to watch what I once loved. It didn't start with mullen either. I'm not alone either... I just saw you can get lower level tix next week for aTm in section 20 row 4 for under $100 on SeatGeek. The ticket office is practically giving away tickets.

To me this offense is fun to watch if it's working well. It was a lot of fun to watch against KY, AU, and Arky last year. When it's stammering and stuttering like the other night it's agony.

So it's no different than Dak's dink & dunks in 2015 when Holloway up the middle was our running threat (not!). Same in 2016 when we stammered and stuttered with I believe Holloway up the middle again (till Aeris got to where he could block although Holloway would go to right spot and just get flat run over trying to block ... but he did give it his best shot).

And this offense can bring you back from a big deficit if you get down by a good bit. Mullen's wasn't good at doing that. When we had our best team's under Dan we jumped out to big leads early.

Most any offense is fun to watch if it's clicking good. Any offense stammering and stuttering is agony to watch.

I mean watching Dan run QB draws and getting those stuffed repeatedly (especially against Bama) when everyone watching knows that's what's coming on short yardage or inside 10 yd line is the epitome of agony. Bama got 8 guys in the box, run a QB draw.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Will could not out run me and I graduated last century

My rotator cuff is shot from age and decades of pressing weights so I probably can’t out throw him, but I’d give him a run for his money

I think Will is set to go on a good run right now, the receivers have to get a lot more aggressive though. If Duck doesn’t show some more toughness he’s going to get replaced.

No you wouldnt. Not even close. But carry on. Its laughable that some of you armchair heismans are really being dead serious. I hope you are joking

[msstate7]

Are you trying to change the subject rather than address the facts ?

You said it was a different environment when Dan coached its first five years, yes it was, he had a much easier schedule and a poor record IMO.

I just wanted to check it. Why wouldn't you share your link?

[msstate7]

And what does it even matter? Is he now suggesting that the SEC West just became this hard?

Who are you guys? Why does a link to your stats matter? Bc I like to see if someone is arguing in good faith. Unlike most here, if you can prove something, I'm capable of changing my mind. If you just spout out stuff with no link to back it up though, well...

"Why does it matter?" Good grief

[BrunswickDawg]

I just wanted to check it. Why wouldn't you share your link?

Looks like it came from here: https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/schedule-strength-by-other?date=2011-01-11

[msstate7]

Looks like it came from here: https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/schedule-strength-by-other?date=2011-01-11

They don't have our schedule #2 this season

[WhiskeyPirate]

Looks like we have a tougher schedule than we did back in Dans era. I think we already met his high water mark of 4-4 in the sec though.

[FISHDAWG]

Where are you getting your SOS rankings?


Are you trying to change the subject rather than address the facts ?

You said it was a different environment when Dan coached its first five years, yes it was, he had a much easier schedule and a poor record IMO.


And what does it even matter? Is he now suggesting that the SEC West just became this hard?

you guys sound like a three way Mormon marriage ...... Leach can coach or he wouldn't have been a head coach for this long.... Could he improve - Yeah ..... Mullen could coach because he raised our ceiling AND expectations and yes - he could have done some things better .... neither one ran away with a recruiting title or a championship. They're different coaches with different offenses so it's difficult to compare them other than wins and we don't have enough data yet to be accurate on that. I think Leaches ceiling could be higher than Dans but I also think Leaches floor could be lower ... Dan had brain farts with his idiotic fake punts and Leach has his WTF moments going for it on 4th down... Dan was in his 6th season when he took us to #1 - If Leach is still here in 2026 then we will have a better idea between the two... at least Leach seems to be able to hang onto a good Def. Coordinator. So far it equals a draw ... Like Todd said - we need to give Leach a few more years to know ...... now carry on with this soap opera because I'm hooked and binge watching

[Goldendawg]

Be careful using Mormons in your sports discussions, see Oregon. Morons ok. Hail State!

[PGHBulldogBG]

Leach is a good coach. Clawson is a great coach. I am still happy with Leach but Clawson was my first choice in 2018 and that still hasn’t changed. That doesn’t mean I don’t like Leach and I still think he can have great success here if given more time. Also Mullen was a really good coach for us after Croom and really helped our program. Our fanbase seems to have a fascination with either Mullen is good and Leach is bad or Vice versa. I just think both have been in coaching long enough to prove they are both good overall

[Dawgology]

Will is a well trained and accurate passer. Anything outside the trained route and schemes to include: new defensive looks, QB scrambles, roll outs, or QB rushes are just simply outside his wheelhouse and will be that way forever. This is why the trams has lacked a killer instinct the past couple years. It?s gameplan or nothing. It is what it is and there?s no changing it without a new QB. This season we will just have to hold steady and limp to 6-6. Build for the future with Sawyer and eventually Parson to take over.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Will is a well trained and accurate passer. Anything outside the trained route and schemes to include: new defensive looks, QB scrambles, roll outs, or QB rushes are just simply outside his wheelhouse and will be that way forever. This is why the trams has lacked a killer instinct the past couple years. It?s gameplan or nothing. It is what it is and there?s no changing it without a new QB. This season we will just have to hold steady and limp to 6-6. Build for the future with Sawyer and eventually Parson to take over.

There is a lot of truth in that. We have the read option. Will isn't going to run that with effectiveness. As I pointed out in another thread, those sacks can become positive yards and the defense will be forced to change. However, you can't throw aside the accuracy and experience for a backup that's not totally ready. I believe Sawyer will be ready next year, but what do you do with Will if he stays?

[WhiskeyPirate]

There is a lot of truth in that. We have the read option. Will isn't going to run that with effectiveness. As I pointed out in another thread, those sacks can become positive yards and the defense will be forced to change. However, you can't throw aside the accuracy and experience for a backup that's not totally ready. I believe Sawyer will be ready next year, but what do you do with Will if he stays?
I think will will be a grad assistant and go into coaching like Harrell. He’d be a valuable backup even if he didn’t start.

[BlackSailsDawg]

I think will will be a grad assistant and go into coaching like Harrell. He’d be a valuable backup even if he didn’t start.

We need Sawyer to be ready. We need the back up to Sawyer to be ready. Will has one more year though.

[WhiskeyPirate]

We need Sawyer to be ready. We need the back up to Sawyer to be ready. Will has one more year though.

As I’ve said, Will is the starter without question this year, next year however there will be a true open competition IMO. I have no idea who will start next year. I think Will is a high character guy and will be an asset whether he is qb1 or qb2

[TrapGame]

We need Sawyer to be ready. We need the back up to Sawyer to be ready. Will has one more year though.

I would argue that next season would be the best time to let Sawyer ride in this offense. It's an easier schedule and it would let him get fully into running the offense. I love Will but if Sawyer improves even more during spring it might be time to let him to be QB1.

[BlackSailsDawg]

I would argue that next season would be the best time to let Sawyer ride in this offense. It's an easier schedule and it would let him get fully into running the offense. I love Will but if Sawyer improves even more during spring it might be time to let him to be QB1.

Oh I'm perfectly fine with that if Sawyer is ready. I'm also ready to see the other recruits at LB and Edge.

[WhiskeyPirate]

Oh I'm perfectly fine with that if Sawyer is ready. I'm also ready to see the other recruits at LB and Edge.

I’ll tell you two guys who are going to be big time players....Dinkins and Sledge. Probably not by next year but they were way underrated IMO.

Dinkins is going to be a great player eventually.