Croom & T-Buck ESPN Article

[Reason2succeed]

Please have a civil conversation. If you know you?re going to say something inflammatory please keep it to yourself. Mods, if this is too mature of a conversation for our maturity level I fully understand you taking it down.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/33977392/why-there-no-black-college-football-head-coaches-sec

I think something is wrong. I don?t know if race was an issue with AD Greene at Auburn but it?s discouraging that he was on the rise and finds himself out before Harsin.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Croom should have been fired after the 2008 Louisiana Tech game. Croom had a chance to do great things but was lazy, hard heading and unwilling to adapt on offense.

[ZedFedder]

Croom should have been fired after the 2008 Louisiana Tech game. Croom had a chance to do great things but was lazy, hard heading and unwilling to adapt on offense.

I don’t know if he was lazy, but he was definitely the last two. I still hold that he helped set up Mullen (though only playing a very small part) for success.

[viverlibre]

Instead of Crooms giving props and thanks to MSU for giving him a chance, he talks about bama. Ungrateful SOB.

[Goldendawg]

I don’t know if he was lazy, but he was definitely the last two. I still hold that he helped set up Mullen (though only playing a very small part) for success.

Didn't he conduct practice from a golf cart? (Famous last words, "I didn't see that coming", after 48 -0 loss to Ole Miss.)

[Tripp McNeely]

The story I always heard about Croom is that Byrne actually decided to fire him a couple of weeks before the EB. Byrne was trying to get in touch with him one afternoon and could not find him. He finally discovered Croom in his office taking a nap...SEC head coaches can't be taking the time to take a nap, mid-afternoon, during the middle of the season

[ScoobaDawg]

I couldn't finish it... Croom is delusional if he thought his coaching style and play would have worked at Bama... Had the bear ya know... Given him the job.. Not earned it.


Screw that dude.

[Todd4State]

Schools are going to hire whoever they feel is going to give them the best chance to win. Except for Larry Templeton.

[Todd4State]

I found the resources comment funny given our current bowl streak. Which is longer than some of his "resource schools" that he is talking about.

[DownwardDawg]

I couldn't finish it... Croom is delusional if he thought his coaching style and play would have worked at Bama... Had the bear ya know... Given him the job.. Not earned it.


Screw that dude.

Agree

[TrapGame]

Croom didn't want the job. His daughter talked him into it. He was drawing a big check to do absolutely shit. I would have taken Jimbo and probation with a schollie reduction instead. At least Jimbo would have had us competitive.

[redstickdawg]

Croom didn't want the job. His daughter talked him into it. He was drawing a big check to do absolutely shit. I would have taken Jimbo and probation with a schollie reduction instead. At least Jimbo would have had us competitive.

I remember hearing that he had to be talked into the job, if you ever have to do that for a big promotion for the applicant you're hiring the wrong guy. I don't think that his heart was ever in the job and he was and is always bama first. He never wanted to fit into the school and was incredibly hard headed. loyal to an extreme fault

[parabrave]

I would like to hear ADs thoughts on this. I knew this player who was being recruited by MSU and a number of schools. They were up in Starkville where they met the position coach and the OC, Woody. Croom finally came down never paid him attention, dissed me us what the mother said, and left the room. He ended signing with Bama started for 2 years before getting hurt So fuc^ him.

[BeardoMSU]

I couldn't finish it... Croom is delusional if he thought his coaching style and play would have worked at Bama... Had the bear ya know... Given him the job.. Not earned it.


Screw that dude.

Yep.

[Commercecomet24]

I couldn't finish it... Croom is delusional if he thought his coaching style and play would have worked at Bama... Had the bear ya know... Given him the job.. Not earned it.


Screw that dude.

Amen!

[ShotgunDawg]

Head coaches tend to hire people they trust and it?s just human nature for people to trust people that are most like themselves.

I don?t believe it?s purposeful discrimination but rather an element of human nature that society is still trying to sort out.

I?m honestly not sure what the answer is

[Goldendawg]

That bama wouldn't hire him and hired an inexperienced Mike Shula says it all. I was for him at the hire, but quickly saw he was in over his head. Most of his NFL career, he was a RB coach, before and after MSU failure. What does that say? He continues to blame MSU and others rather than looking in the mirror. (There is also a story that he fell asleep on the couch at a recruit's home on a recruiting visit). Heck, we should have fired him earlier over those bama clone Russell Athletic uniforms.

[was21]

He's one that probably shouldn't be invited back on campus...probably won't bother him...screw him

[StarkVegasSteve]

Croom has gotten less and less likable as the years have passed. I honestly think had he just thanked the university and the fanbase for supporting him and what was an awful product overall 4 out of 5 years and an awful offensive product all five years he would have been honored by now. Even Mullen is welcomed back into Starkville. I mean you look at Mullen, Joe, Jackie, Leach, etc. they got out into the community and made relationships with the people of Starkville. It never seemed like Croom even tried to do that. And it just seems like every chance he gets he takes a shot at us. Had we not had an otherworldly defense coupled with the SEC being down as a conference he would've been fired in 07.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

That bama wouldn't hire him and hired an inexperienced Mike Shula says it all. I was for him at the hire, but quickly saw he was in over his head. Most of his NFL career, he was a RB coach, before and after MSU failure. What does that say? He continues to blame MSU and others rather than looking in the mirror. (There is also a story that he fell asleep on the couch at a recruit's home on a recruiting visit). Heck, we should have fired him earlier over those bama clone Russell Athletic uniforms.

Agree with you. The guy was a freaking NFL running backs coach. He had no business even being considered for our job, but got it anyways. And he infers in this article that he never got a second shot at head coach because of his skin color. Let me break it to you, Sly. You never got a second chance at being a head coach because you were flat out awful and State was either the worst or in the 3 worst power 5 teams in the country 2 out of your 5 years here (04' 06').

We lost to Maine. Maine
We also got thumped at home by a Tulane team that barely had a campus post Katrina.

I've been done with him for a really long time, but this just solidifies my reasoning.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Croom has gotten less and less likable as the years have passed. I honestly think had he just thanked the university and the fanbase for supporting him and what was an awful product overall 4 out of 5 years and an awful offensive product all five years he would have been honored by now. Even Mullen is welcomed back into Starkville. I mean you look at Mullen, Joe, Jackie, Leach, etc. they got out into the community and made relationships with the people of Starkville. It never seemed like Croom even tried to do that. And it just seems like every chance he gets he takes a shot at us. Had we not had an otherworldly defense coupled with the SEC being down as a conference he would've been fired in 07.

You sort of touch on it, but we weren't any good in 07'. We had an opportunistic defense that caught a lot of lucky breaks. That could have easily been another 4-5 win season. We won 7 regular season games and people acted like Croom could walk on water. The entire nation acted like it was impossible to win at MSU and Croom wins SEC Coach of the Year. If winning 7 regular season games was so impossible at MSU, Mullen should have won SEC Coach of the Year 5 times in his tenure.

[Goldendawg]

His being a great disciplinarian was also a joke. After he got rid of so many of Jackie's problem players, he continued with problems. At least there was never a gun fight on campus involving players while Jackie was coach. Croom blamed losing his best OT & DB for having his next bad year. I have never heard him take blame for anything. Always someone or something else.

[BeardoMSU]

You sort of touch on it, but we weren't any good in 07'. We had an opportunistic defense that caught a lot of lucky breaks. That could have easily been another 4-5 win season. We won 7 regular season games and people acted like Croom could walk on water. The entire nation acted like it was impossible to win at MSU and Croom wins SEC Coach of the Year. If winning 7 regular season games was so impossible at MSU, Mullen should have won SEC Coach of the Year 5 times in his tenure.

This

[Mjoelner34]

You sort of touch on it, but we weren't any good in 07'. We had an opportunistic defense that caught a lot of lucky breaks. That could have easily been another 4-5 win season. We won 7 regular season games and people acted like Croom could walk on water. The entire nation acted like it was impossible to win at MSU and Croom wins SEC Coach of the Year. If winning 7 regular season games was so impossible at MSU, Mullen should have won SEC Coach of the Year 5 times in his tenure.

^^^THIS^^^ Ellis Johnson is the reason we won 8 that year. His defense kept the opponent down low enough that 1 defensive/special teams play in each game was all it took to win 3 games. 5pt. win over Auburn because of a defensive pick-6. 5pt. win over Bama because of a defensive pick-6. 3pt win over UM because of a punt return TD and a stupid decision at mid field on a 4th down by a buffoon on the opposite sideline. Also you can add in the rumor that Wesley Carroll won the bowl game by ignoring McCorvey/Croom play calls on the winning drive and started calling the option to Boobie which apparently he begged Croom to call the whole game.

[Mjoelner34]

His being a great disciplinarian was also a joke. After he got rid of so many of Jackie's problem players, he continued with problems. At least there was never a gun fight on campus involving players while Jackie was coach. Croom blamed losing his best OT & DB for having his next bad year. I have never heard him take blame for anything. Always someone or something else.

As with THE Bruce Dickinson's post, this is also very true! The SPD chief told me when I asked him about Croom's players back in the day "The only difference between Jackie and Croom was that Croom was too lazy to get out of bed and come get them out of jail at 2am." I still remember one poster on 6pack had a signature he would update listing Croom's wins vs Croom's players arrested. At one point, I remember it being tied at 13-13.

[Matt3467]

As far as the skin color issue that the article wants to make a big deal out of James Franklin could still be coaching in the SEC if he wanted and Derek Mason was garbage. Joker Phillips couldn't win. Kevin Sumlin continually underperformed with top talent at A&M. Has nothing to do with skin color but everything to do with results. Croom was the worst coach we've had since I started following MSU sports back in the mid 90's and it's not even close.

[CaptainObvious]

As far as the skin color issue that the article wants to make a big deal out of James Franklin could still be coaching in the SEC if he wanted and Derek Mason was garbage. Joker Phillips couldn't win. Kevin Sumlin continually underperformed with top talent at A&M. Has nothing to do with skin color but everything to do with results. Croom was the worst coach we've had since I started following MSU sports back in the mid 90's and it's not even close.

Rick Ray says Hi!

[lastmajordog]

So many point out the embarrassing Croom football losses, but to me the worst was the Liberty bowl win. After that game all I could think was this was the WORST football game I?ve ever seen by anyone.

[Goldendawg]

So many point out the embarrassing Croom football losses, but to me the worst was the Liberty bowl win. After that game all I could think was this was the WORST football game I?ve ever seen by anyone.

Remember how cold it was and again no offense until maybe a late 4th quarter winning drive in another low scoring game. Didn't we also have to block an attempted FG to save the narrow win?

[TrapGame]

Remember how cold it was and again no offense until maybe a late 4th quarter winning drive in another low scoring game. Didn't we also have to block an attempted FG to save the narrow win?

All I remember is Wes Carroll willing the offense down the field for the winning touchdown. Then later finding out he was checking out of the called plays making Croom furious. Threw the winning touchdown and still got his ass reamed by Croom for not doing it his way.

[R2Dawg]

I thought Croom had some class but his comments are lacking. Got to go somewhere where you have support? He went 1-4 on winning seasons and had 5 years to do something. He got twice as long as most other coaches would get. MSU took a hit for the SEC and gets no respect even from him.

I'll repeat Crooms words at his hiring press conference. Maroon is the only color that matters at MSU.

Croom has never been thankful for MSU giving him the chance and being the first the break the barrier.

[Todd4State]

I thought Croom had some class but his comments are lacking. Got to go somewhere where you have support? He went 1-4 on winning seasons and had 5 years to do something. He got twice as long as most other coaches would get. MSU took a hit for the SEC and gets no respect even from him.

I'll repeat Crooms words at his hiring press conference. Maroon is the only color that matters at MSU.

Croom has never been thankful for MSU giving him the chance and being the first the break the barrier.

Yeah. That's the thing. When you are given an opportunity, you have to make the most of it.

Apparently it never occurred to him that if he was successful at MSU he maybe could have gotten the Bama job later? And then he is going to actually bitch about not getting an opportunity?

Newsflash- most SEC schools don't hire head football coaches without experience.

There is zero doubt in my mind he would have failed as a head coach at Alabama. And zero doubt he would have failed as a head coach at that junior college. He's an elite running backs coach and that's it. He's a good go fer for a guy like Bryant. And that comment about Bear Bryant would have made him the head coach had he not passed away is BS. Bryant retired before he passed away. If Croom was right then the Bear would have named him the coach. But the reality is the Bear never even made him the assistant head coach much less the head coach. I'm 99% sure that the Bear would have promoted Mal Moore his OC or Ken Donahue who was an elite DC that he got from MSU of all places before Croom if he had to choose who to promote from within.

Croom doesn't have what it takes to be a head coach. Heck- he had a good staff here with some guys who eventually ended up in the NFL and he still failed. Freddie Kitchens, Shane Beamer, Amos Jones, Brick Haley, Stan Drayton, JB Grimes was a solid OL coach and Ellis was a pretty good DC. The ingredients were there- sure Woody shouldn't have been the OC. But he chose not to fix that. And he can't say he didn't have the resources here to win when Jackie won big before him and Dan won big after him. Shoot- lucky or not even Croom pulled off 8 wins in 2007 without resources. That's even less applicable with the new SEC TV deal. If we manage our money decently we'll probably have enough to build a completely new stadium if we wanted to.

He should have taken the Leach approach and taken like 20 pass plays and about 10 running plays and screens and just repped the heck out of them.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Croom was no Jackie Robinson. Dude was given every opportunity, with support at every turn. He was just not a good coach, simple as that. Lazy, and judging by literally every comment I have ever seen directly from him, a douchebag that never took the blame.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

There are no black head football coaches in the SEC. Can anyone tell me how many white head football coaches there are in the SWAC right now? There may be some, I honestly don't know.

From the article - "Croom also knows his history. And he doesn't need to be reminded that in 2022, for the second straight season, the SEC -- a league in which more than 60% of the players and 48% of the on-field coaches are Black -- won't have any Black head football coaches despite 10 jobs having come open in the past three years."

Does anybody see the issue in the above? The USA is only about 14% black, so why are 60% of the players black? And why are 48% of the on-field coaches black? If we are going to talk about lack of opportunity for black head coaches in the SEC (we are because there is an article about it and a message board thread about it), when are we going to talk about the lack of opportunity for white players and white on-field coaches in the SEC? Just trying to be fair and equitable.

[Johnson85]

Agree with you. The guy was a freaking NFL running backs coach. He had no business even being considered for our job, but got it anyways. And he infers in this article that he never got a second shot at head coach because of his skin color. Let me break it to you, Sly. You never got a second chance at being a head coach because you were flat out awful and State was either the worst or in the 3 worst power 5 teams in the country 2 out of your 5 years here (04' 06').

We lost to Maine. Maine
We also got thumped at home by a Tulane team that barely had a campus post Katrina.

I've been done with him for a really long time, but this just solidifies my reasoning.

Yup. If there is a problem, it's not in how many black head coaches there are, it's how many black offensive and defensive coordinators there are. We obviously reached for somebody without any business being a head coach. And it's rich hearing him talk about not getting second chances. He sucked as Detroit's offensive coordinator and wasted one of the greatest RBs of all time, and then he still got a head coaching job, which he proceeded to not just suck at, but suck at because of character flaws (stubborness, laziness, prioritizing promoting friends over picking the best candidate). So it's not like black head coaching candidates aren't given a shot.

It is a valid question of whether they are not getting their fair share of coordinator positions. I tend to believe that's not the case. It's an extremely competitive, cut throat business. If you saw black coordinators over performing, then somebody that wanted to get paid (or keep their job) would recognize it. I don't think it's obvious that a lack of black coordinators is indicative that racism is the problem anymore than having disproportionately few white players means racism is a problem. But it's certainly a fair question to ask.

[R2Dawg]

You sort of touch on it, but we weren't any good in 07'. We had an opportunistic defense that caught a lot of lucky breaks. That could have easily been another 4-5 win season. We won 7 regular season games and people acted like Croom could walk on water. The entire nation acted like it was impossible to win at MSU and Croom wins SEC Coach of the Year. If winning 7 regular season games was so impossible at MSU, Mullen should have won SEC Coach of the Year 5 times in his tenure.

So true. That D outscored the O in some games. OM being stupid after they dominated us for 3.5 qtrs in egg bowl. Bama gifted us that game too on the 100yd pick 6. At Aub was same way. Give us credit we made the plays but that year was far from a dominating performance, particularly on O.

[R2Dawg]

Yup. If there is a problem, it's not in how many black head coaches there are, it's how many black offensive and defensive coordinators there are. We obviously reached for somebody without any business being a head coach. And it's rich hearing him talk about not getting second chances. He sucked as Detroit's offensive coordinator and wasted one of the greatest RBs of all time, and then he still got a head coaching job, which he proceeded to not just suck at, but suck at because of character flaws (stubborness, laziness, prioritizing promoting friends over picking the best candidate). So it's not like black head coaching candidates aren't given a shot.

It is a valid question of whether they are not getting their fair share of coordinator positions. I tend to believe that's not the case. It's an extremely competitive, cut throat business. If you saw black coordinators over performing, then somebody that wanted to get paid (or keep their job) would recognize it. I don't think it's obvious that a lack of black coordinators is indicative that racism is the problem anymore than having disproportionately few white players means racism is a problem. But it's certainly a fair question to ask.

Schools and particularly professional owners don't care what color folks are - just win and you got the job or keep your job. If Croom had Mullen results, he'd still be coaching here. Proof, look at Moorhead. Now if you want issues, flip Croom and Moorhead results and watch the arguments.

[FISHDAWG]

The story I always heard about Croom is that Byrne actually decided to fire him a couple of weeks before the EB. Byrne was trying to get in touch with him one afternoon and could not find him. He finally discovered Croom in his office taking a nap...SEC head coaches can't be taking the time to take a nap, mid-afternoon, during the middle of the season

I had heard that Byrne made the decision after the Auburn 3-2 game. Byrne wanted to talk and Croom walked away from him and that was kinda like the last straw ... I have no idea if it's true or not

[R2Dawg]

I had heard that Byrne made the decision after the Auburn 3-2 game. Byrne wanted to talk and Croom walked away from him and that was kinda like the last straw ... I have no idea if it's true or not

Byrne wanted to know when the WCO was leaving the west coast for Starkville.

[FISHDAWG]

Agree with you. The guy was a freaking NFL running backs coach. He had no business even being considered for our job, but got it anyways. And he infers in this article that he never got a second shot at head coach because of his skin color. Let me break it to you, Sly. You never got a second chance at being a head coach because you were flat out awful and State was either the worst or in the 3 worst power 5 teams in the country 2 out of your 5 years here (04' 06').

We lost to Maine. Maine
We also got thumped at home by a Tulane team that barely had a campus post Katrina.

I've been done with him for a really long time, but this just solidifies my reasoning.

and how does a former offensive lineman land a job as a Running Backs Coach anyway .... what could he have possibly known or experienced as a lineman to qualify him for that position

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

So true. That D outscored the O in some games. OM being stupid after they dominated us for 3.5 qtrs in egg bowl. Bama gifted us that game too on the 100yd pick 6. At Aub was same way. Give us credit we made the plays but that year was far from a dominating performance, particularly on O.

We had 217 yards of total offense at Auburn and still somehow won that game. I agree our D made some plays which I gave them credit for, but all in all we were not a good football team

[somebodyshotmypaw]

I don't think it's obvious that a lack of black coordinators is indicative that racism is the problem anymore than having disproportionately few white players means racism is a problem. But it's certainly a fair question to ask.

Too many white MLB players - must be racism or lack of opportunity
Too many black NBA players - the best players should play
No black NFL quarterbacks - must be racism or lack of opportunity
No white NFL cornerbacks - the best players should play
All white company board room - look at the stunning lack of diversity
All black basketball team - they are a great team
I'm black and will vote for this candidate solely because he's black - strong and heroic
I'm white and will vote for this candidate solely because he's white - racist bigot
Some majority black teams wouldn't visit the White House because Trump was president - media makes them out to be heroes taking a stand
If some majority white teams wouldn't visit the the White House because Obama was president - they are racist bigots

You have to perform to get promoted. Are there some sterotypes or some discriminatory practices happening in life? I'm sure there is and it affects all races. It's part of life. Get over it. Croom is a whiner who didn't perform. That's really all there is to it. White or black or purple, he didn't get it done.

[Goldendawg]

and how does a former offensive lineman land a job as a Running Backs Coach anyway .... what could he have possibly known or experienced as a lineman to qualify him for that position

How hard is it to be a RB coach in the NFL anyway? Most teams have very good RB'S. He was a career RB coach most of his time in the league. That coaching position would seen to be far down the NFL coaching totem pole to me.

[Jarius]

Croom has done nothing but make excuses about why he was an awful head coach at Mississippi State. He's one of the worst head coaches to ever put on a headset in this conference. He needs to STFU and be grateful that our university overpaid his incompetent ass for half a decade.

[EdwardDrayton]

Instead of Crooms giving props and thanks to MSU for giving him a chance, he talks about bama. Ungrateful SOB.

Not sure about ungrateful. But sure missed an opportunity to express gratitude. Disappointing.