I?ll never forgive MOORHEAD

[cheewgumm]

For what he did to us on 2018.

[Quaoarsking]

There are so many coaches we could have hired, including just promoting Todd Grantham or Greg Knox, that would have had us at 10-2 or better. Most disappointing season since 2001 easily, maybe further back.

[cheewgumm]

Amen. Its hard to believe we screwed the at up that badly.

[parabrave]

Well someone hired him!!!

[Maroonthirteen]

Is that you Bo Bounds?

Let it go. He's been gone over 2 years.

[Goldendawg]

Amen. Its hard to believe we screwed the at up that badly.

What do you mean "we". Wasn't he a great interview and a Cohen hire?

[mparkerfd20]

Agreed. Worse than the Croom hire which was the 2nd worst hire in the history of college football.

[parabrave]

There are so many coaches we could have hired, including just promoting Todd Grantham or Greg Knox, that would have had us at 10-2 or better. Most disappointing season since 2001 easily, maybe further back.

Q when I brought up Greg Knox as a replacement for Mull I was laughed off the board. We could've given him a one year emergency contract just to keep things going until a HC could be found. I think he would've gotten us to at least 10 wins.

[PGHBulldogBG]

I am the first person to talk about how much I disliked the Moorhead hire and was just as mad about that as Rick Ray. I have no idea what Cohen and Co were thinking hiring that fool. That being said, I think Mullen wins 10 games with the 2018 team, but let?s not act like anyone could have won 10 games with that team. We had no deep passing threat and that alone would?ve meant we don?t beat Bama or LSU that year. UK had a really good team and it would?ve been hard to win there but I think Mullen or a good coach would?ve done it. Losing to UF and Iowa were completely unacceptable though. Thankfully Cohen did much better with the Leach hire.

[FISHDAWG]

initially I thought it was a good chance to take ... looked good on paper so I never blamed Cohen. It wasn't to long into the season when I realized he had no offensive imagination or creativity when I saw him ride Fitz like a Greyhound bus. I knew then he wasn't going to work out here. We had some tools to work with but he just seemed like a one trick pony. I still like the guy as a person but he's the type to remain a coordinator under a good head coach the rest of his life.... Yes he blew a really good opportunity for us that year but our administration did something seldom done at State ... firing him after year two

[Maroonthirteen]

Kentucky won 10 games that year. One of their best teams ever.

Florida was a bad loss but players didn't execute well that game. We had a chance to win with a catch here or there.

We most certainly lost the Iowa game because of defense. Busted assignments for an easy TD. Willie gay throat slashing to extend a drive. Then when we really needed a stop. Iowa marched down the field on the 85 bears to run out of the clock.

I'm not saying Moorhead was some genius. That music city bowl was ridiculous. But the 2018 season isn't entirely on him. Players have to make plays.

[BrunswickDawg]

Kentucky won 10 games that year. One of their best teams ever.

Florida was a bad loss but players didn't execute well that game. We had a chance to win with a catch here or there.

We most certainly lost the Iowa game because of defense. Busted assignments for an easy TD. Willie gay throat slashing to extend a drive. Then when we really needed a stop. Iowa marched down the field on the 85 bears to run out of the clock.

I'm not saying Moorhead was some genius. That music city bowl was ridiculous. But the 2018 season isn't entirely on him. Players have to make plays.

That bowl game was one of the weirdest games I've every watched. We hold Iowa to -15 yards rushing and lose? That could ONLY happen in an MSU game.

[Dawgology]

Kentucky won 10 games that year. One of their best teams ever.

Florida was a bad loss but players didn't execute well that game. We had a chance to win with a catch here or there.

We most certainly lost the Iowa game because of defense. Busted assignments for an easy TD. Willie gay throat slashing to extend a drive. Then when we really needed a stop. Iowa marched down the field on the 85 bears to run out of the clock.

I'm not saying Moorhead was some genius. That music city bowl was ridiculous. But the 2018 season isn't entirely on him. Players have to make plays.

Dude…JM was a nice guy but not ready for head coach of a SEC school and it showed on the field. The team wasn’t prepared and lacked leadership. 2018 was 100% on a bad hire.

[TrapGame]

Moorhead was a hardheaded Yankee. He was never SEC head coach material but talked a good game. He refused to listen to his asst. coaches that had more head coaching experience than he did (hence the mass exodus after the first season). He had a walking marshmallow as a S&C coach and let the players decide if they wanted to practice or not. He was a terrible hire.

[Captain Falcon]

Joe is a good offensive coordinator that did well at both Penn State and Oregon. Just did not translate well here for whatever reason.

That said, it definitely helps to have the offensive talent he had to work with at Penn State. Barkley was special and he also had guys like Godwin and Gesicki who have had successful NFL careers.

[viverlibre]

Virtually any of us message board geniuses could have coached that team to a 9 win season, just keep doing what Mull was doing. I think SloMo was spoiled with Penn State and Fordam players who are likely more academically advanced than the southern athlete we recruit. Keep it simple stupid stupid, especially when you inherit a loaded team that is build to run a particular system.

[Extendedcab]

Virtually any of us message board geniuses could have coached that team to a 9 win season, just keep doing what Mull was doing. I think SloMo was spoiled with Penn State and Fordam players who are likely more academically advanced than the southern athlete we recruit. Keep it simple stupid stupid, especially when you inherit a loaded team that is build to run a particular system.


Wow, that speaks volumes! So what do you recommend? Do we recruit more academically advanced athletes or stick with the southern athlete we traditionally recruit?

[viverlibre]

Wow, that speaks volumes! So what do you recommend? Do we recruit more academically advanced athletes or stick with the southern athlete we traditionally recruit?

Stick with who we recruit and keep it simple, it you make a change, make it slowly.

Hopefully you realize incoming PSU students are more academically advanced than our incoming students (on average)?

[Dawgfan77]

Blake Anderson is who we should have hired. He had won at Ark State. I know he had just lost his wife so maybe the timing wasn't great but that's who Cohen should have hired.
He would be on my short list of he isn't at a blue blood next time we hire

[R2Dawg]

2018 showed JM wasn't a head coach but a program killer.

But what I really did me in with him was 2019 and him telling MSU - students, alumni, fans to shove it. He should have been fired on the spot.

That should be an interview question, how do you handle media and fans when things aren't going well? Course he would have lied not knowing how tough the SEC is.

[TrapGame]

2018 showed JM wasn't a head coach but a program killer.

But what I really did me in with him was 2019 and him telling MSU - students, alumni, fans to shove it. He should have been fired on the spot.

That should be an interview question, how do you handle media and fans when things aren't going well? Course he would have lied not knowing how tough the SEC is.

If I was Cohen he would have been on the hot seat after his "I remembered to take my coaching pills." line after the Auburn win 2018. In hindsight that proved he wasn't ready. Hud and the RB coach gave him that one on a silver platter by playing to our strengths: defense and running the ball. They were showing him how to win with the players he had. He didn't think it would work. We beat Auburn's ass and he was humbled and embarrassed.

[Goldendawg]

initially I thought it was a good chance to take ... looked good on paper so I never blamed Cohen. It wasn't to long into the season when I realized he had no offensive imagination or creativity when I saw him ride Fitz like a Greyhound bus. I knew then he wasn't going to work out here. We had some tools to work with but he just seemed like a one trick pony. I still like the guy as a person but he's the type to remain a coordinator under a good head coach the rest of his life.... Yes he blew a really good opportunity for us that year but our administration did something seldom done at State ... firing him after year two

Hey he let Fritz go " future air raid" and attempt to throw 50 times in the rain against KY! I knew he was a dud and we were in big trouble after that loss.

[Goldendawg]

Kentucky won 10 games that year. One of their best teams ever.

Florida was a bad loss but players didn't execute well that game. We had a chance to win with a catch here or there.

We most certainly lost the Iowa game because of defense. Busted assignments for an easy TD. Willie gay throat slashing to extend a drive. Then when we really needed a stop. Iowa marched down the field on the 85 bears to run out of the clock.

I'm not saying Moorhead was some genius. That music city bowl was ridiculous. But the 2018 season isn't entirely on him. Players have to make plays.

He thought he was an offensive genius. Let me wait until there is about 2 seconds left on the play clock while I outsmart the defense to hurriedly then get a play off. Meanwhile, they now tee off on the snap count.

[Goldendawg]

Moorhead was a hardheaded Yankee. He was never SEC head coach material but talked a good game. He refused to listen to his asst. coaches that had more head coaching experience than he did (hence the mass exodus after the first season). He had a walking marshmallow as a S&C coach and let the players decide if they wanted to practice or not. He was a terrible hire.

Nailed it.

[confucius say]

I am the first person to talk about how much I disliked the Moorhead hire and was just as mad about that as Rick Ray. I have no idea what Cohen and Co were thinking hiring that fool. That being said, I think Mullen wins 10 games with the 2018 team, but let?s not act like anyone could have won 10 games with that team. We had no deep passing threat and that alone would?ve meant we don?t beat Bama or LSU that year. UK had a really good team and it would?ve been hard to win there but I think Mullen or a good coach would?ve done it. Losing to UF and Iowa were completely unacceptable though. Thankfully Cohen did much better with the Leach hire.

We could have beaten lsu without throwing a pass more than 7 yards. We threw 4 picks. One was returned to our 2 and gave them their only TD.

[HoopsDawg]

He thought he was an offensive genius. Let me wait until there is about 2 seconds left on the play clock while I outsmart the defense to hurriedly then get a play off. Meanwhile, they now tee off on the snap count.

Charlie Weis 2.0

[Maroonthirteen]

Point is, everyone acts like We did have the 85 bears in 2018. We didn't. Now, Moorhead was a sinking ship. However I dnk why people keep being up Moorhead. Unless it's to excuse the current guy .... but winning 8 or 10 in 2018 has nothing to do with todays football team.

[TrapGame]

Point is, everyone acts like We did have the 85 bears in 2018. We didn't. Now, Moorhead was a sinking ship. However I dnk why people keep being up Moorhead. Unless it's to excuse the current guy .... but winning 8 or 10 in 2018 has nothing to do with todays football team.

The current guy is worth ten Moorheads.

[confucius say]

Should also be noted that Dan recruited that 2018 team. And the 2014 team. He could recruit better than he got credit for. Put a host of guys in the nfl.

[cheewgumm]

People who reply to this and say we really weren?t that good are high.

Our defense was easily the best in the nation. I think we have up 12 TDs all year and lost 5 games. Ridiculous.

Moorhead personally lost the Kentucky and LSU game. Ante monkey could have won those games wi the our team.

Against Kentucky he let their DE sack our QB?what? 5 times? No help for our tackle. Then threw it 50 times on the rain.

The one time he did right, we stomped Auburn. He then went back to his own thoughts and we lost that crap taste fame at LSU. He?s so dumb.

He was brain dead. Actually he was trying to prove a point to our detriment.

His comment about acting like he had the 85 Bears is dumb?HE DID have the 85 Bears ( relatively speaking).

The only comfort I get is how he could have had a successful head coaching career if he had just listened. Instead he didn?t and is a failure - rightfully so.

[Maroonthirteen]

States defense was good that year. States offense was mediocre. Same State make up as always.

However you guys keep saying 10 wins. Moorhead regardless if he was clueless would have got 10 wins if the players execute better in two games.

The outback bowl. Busted coverage...7 pts. A chance to get the ball back in the end, Iowa made first down after first down.

[HoopsDawg]

States defense was good that year. States offense was mediocre. Same State make up as always.

However you guys keep saying 10 wins. Moorhead regardless if he was clueless would have got 10 wins if the players execute better in two games.

The outback bowl. Busted coverage...7 pts. A chance to get the ball back in the end, Iowa made first down after first down.

We did get the ball back. Even after dumbass moorehead punted on 4th and short. You have a poor memory

[R2Dawg]

Point is, everyone acts like We did have the 85 bears in 2018. We didn't. Now, Moorhead was a sinking ship. However I dnk why people keep being up Moorhead. Unless it's to excuse the current guy .... but winning 8 or 10 in 2018 has nothing to do with todays football team.

They were basically the college version. We were #1 or 2 in like 20+ defensive categories. We were dominant on D.

There is no excuse for where we are now. Most are expecting a big year and it should be. If CML can coach, he should win 9 at least. He is playing a lot of teams with less talent than he has, no excuse. This year's D ain't 2018, but it potentially could be the best since 18.

[schddog72]

They were basically the college version. We were #1 or 2 in like 20+ defensive categories. We were dominant on D.

There is no excuse for where we are now. Most are expecting a big year and it should be. If CML can coach, he should win 9 at least. He is playing a lot of teams with less talent than he has, no excuse. This year's D ain't 2018, but it potentially could be the best since 18.

Hate to burst your optimistic bubble and cloud your maroon colored glasses, but 7-5 is a hard cap for this team; more likely 6-6 because Leach usually loses at least one game he should win. Don't be surprised at 5-7 based on strength of schedule. After all, we ARE Mississippi State.

[Goldendawg]

Hate to burst your optimistic bubble and cloud your maroon colored glasses, but 7-5 is a hard cap for this team; more likely 6-6 because Leach usually loses at least one game he should win. Don't be surprised at 5-7 based on strength of schedule. After all, we ARE Mississippi State.

No, this would possibly mean 4-0 against and only 2-6 in the SEC with 3rd straight loss to OM. This would be totally unacceptable in year 3 under Leach. But wait 6-6 is another bowl team (with what, 50 or so bowls?) I expect much more than this at this point. Hail State!

[Choctaw Dawg]

Told me everything I needed to know about how awful a hire it was by his excuse making after the Tennessee game in 2019. Saying his daughter was "traumatized" by the critical comments thrown at him after that awful game. The man could not handle stress at all and found out SEC football is a different animal in a very quick two years.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Because he didn?t demand accountability. Great guy, but too anxious to being everyone?s friend instead of coach.

[lastmajordog]

If memory serves, an article said Clemson gave MSU defense for credit in winning the Championship for showing Tigers how to stop Bama offense. I think the DOGS held Bama to one td after the first quarter or something along that line when they were normally scoring over 40 a game. Let that sink in..... how GREAT that team COULD have been.....Thanks Dan.

[cheewgumm]

Ironically that wa s probably Mullen?s best chance to win it all.

[Jarius]

Hate to burst your optimistic bubble and cloud your maroon colored glasses, but 7-5 is a hard cap for this team; more likely 6-6 because Leach usually loses at least one game he should win. Don't be surprised at 5-7 based on strength of schedule. After all, we ARE Mississippi State.

7-5 is not a hard cap on this team. Get a clue.

[Coach34]

One of the worst coaching jobs I can remember

[Coach34]

Hate to burst your optimistic bubble and cloud your maroon colored glasses, but 7-5 is a hard cap for this team; more likely 6-6 because Leach usually loses at least one game he should win. Don't be surprised at 5-7 based on strength of schedule. After all, we ARE Mississippi State.

This is one of the best teams Leach has ever coached. 7-5 will be extremely disappointing.

We wont beat Bama but should play Georgia well with a possible chance to win in the 4th. Other than that- we may not be favored in a few others but we certainly can win them. Should be an 8-9 win team with an outside shot at 10

[KOdawg1]

In 2018, 8 games was the absolute minimum that the team was capable of winning. Like, 8 wins was the floor, and Moorhead found it.

[HoopsDawg]

In 2018, 8 games was the absolute minimum that the team was capable of winning. Like, 8 wins was the floor, and Moorhead found it.

8-5 with that fckn defense. I still can't believe it.

[TrapGame]

In 2018, 8 games was the absolute minimum that the team was capable of winning. Like, 8 wins was the floor, and Moorhead found it.

And had it not been for Hud, Jones, and the RB coach pushing him to scheme with what he had it would have been less than 8 wins.

[R2Dawg]

In 2018, 8 games was the absolute minimum that the team was capable of winning. Like, 8 wins was the floor, and Moorhead found it.

TBH, I think 10 was the floor - UK and UF should have never been an L. Moorhead went below the floor. He could have run QB draw every play and beat those two.

[lastmajordog]

One of the worst coaching jobs I can remember
Thank you C34.....

[Coach34]

And had it not been for Hud, Jones, and the RB coach pushing him to scheme with what he had it would have been less than 8 wins.

correction- Johnson not Jones. Dont slight my boy.

And as was told to me- Moorhead said after Auburn "I'm not going to run that shit I dont care if we dont win another game. We are going to run what I want win or lose"

And that people- is why coaches get fired.

[TrapGame]

correction- Johnson not Jones. Dont slight my boy.

And as was told to me- Moorhead said after Auburn "I'm not going to run that shit I dont care if we dont win another game. We are going to run what I want win or lose"

And that people- is why coaches get fired.

I was thinking Jones the ST coach back then. He was the former head coach of UAB or something. Could have been Johnson in there too. There were a bunch of people pissed at Moorhead and his hardheaded bullshit.

[Coach34]

I was thinking Jones the ST coach back then. He was the former head coach of UAB or something. Could have been Johnson in there too. There were a bunch of people pissed at Moorhead and his hardheaded bullshit.

Marcus Johnson was the OL coach and he and Hud were very vocal about it.

[confucius say]

People who reply to this and say we really weren?t that good are high.

Our defense was easily the best in the nation. I think we have up 12 TDs all year and lost 5 games. Ridiculous.

Moorhead personally lost the Kentucky and LSU game. Ante monkey could have won those games wi the our team.

Against Kentucky he let their DE sack our QB?what? 5 times? No help for our tackle. Then threw it 50 times on the rain.

The one time he did right, we stomped Auburn. He then went back to his own thoughts and we lost that crap taste fame at LSU. He?s so dumb.

He was brain dead. Actually he was trying to prove a point to our detriment.

His comment about acting like he had the 85 Bears is dumb?HE DID have the 85 Bears ( relatively speaking).

The only comfort I get is how he could have had a successful head coaching career if he had just listened. Instead he didn?t and is a failure - rightfully so.

Dang. Preach

[confucius say]

They were basically the college version. We were #1 or 2 in like 20+ defensive categories. We were dominant on D.

There is no excuse for where we are now. Most are expecting a big year and it should be. If CML can coach, he should win 9 at least. He is playing a lot of teams with less talent than he has, no excuse. This year's D ain't 2018, but it potentially could be the best since 18.

If you believe in recruiting rankings, we are the least talented team in the west.

[confucius say]

This is one of the best teams Leach has ever coached. 7-5 will be extremely disappointing.

We wont beat Bama but should play Georgia well with a possible chance to win in the 4th. Other than that- we may not be favored in a few others but we certainly can win them. Should be an 8-9 win team with an outside shot at 10

Why do you say we should play uga well? They are the #2 overall recruiter and we are like 27.

[Coach34]

Why do you say we should play uga well? They are the #2 overall recruiter and we are like 27.

They are talented- no doubt. They lost alot of players and are lacking experience. Experience matters. We are a developmental program and when we are a veteran team we are always pretty good. 2010 won 9 games. 2014 we contended for the NC. 2018 we were loaded and Moorhead ruined it. Now it's 2022. We will be very good and are at home. Georgia better come to play

Ken Griffey Jr was hell at 9 years old- but alot of 12 year olds were still better because of maturity even tho they didnt make it to MLB. Georgia lost alot of defensive players and while talented- they have alot of inexperience out there. Supposedly the Air Raid takes advantage of shit like that. Advantage us

[MedDawg]

Kentucky won 10 games that year. One of their best teams ever.

Florida was a bad loss but players didn't execute well that game. We had a chance to win with a catch here or there.

We most certainly lost the Iowa game because of defense. Busted assignments for an easy TD. Willie gay throat slashing to extend a drive. Then when we really needed a stop. Iowa marched down the field on the 85 bears to run out of the clock.

I'm not saying Moorhead was some genius. That music city bowl was ridiculous. But the 2018 season isn't entirely on him. Players have to make plays.

Florida also won 10 games. State had a difficult schedule in 2018. Both of the East teams we played won 10 games.

[Todd4State]

They are talented- no doubt. They lost alot of players and are lacking experience. Experience matters. We are a developmental program and when we are a veteran team we are always pretty good. 2010 won 9 games. 2014 we contended for the NC. 2018 we were loaded and Moorhead ruined it. Now it's 2022. We will be very good and are at home. Georgia better come to play

Ken Griffey Jr was hell at 9 years old- but alot of 12 year olds were still better because of maturity even tho they didnt make it to MLB. Georgia lost alot of defensive players and while talented- they have alot of inexperience out there. Supposedly the Air Raid takes advantage of shit like that. Advantage us

That's exactly the key for us- having veteran teams. Which is why I would get so frustrated at Mullen for neglecting position groups like WR and OL causing us to be young at times. And that's a big reason why I think his ceiling was limited here. He was way too arrogant to make sure that didn't happen.

[Duckdog]

Losing games usually doesn't make me lose it but after going to the LSU game that idiot coached OH MY GOD

[NCMSTFAN]

I'm going to get backlash from this but I'm not the Moorhead basher like the majority of you are. He wasn't a great fit, I'll admit that but how good was that team really going to be regardless? Yes we had a strong defense, very strong, but that team was put together by Mullen and what Mullen does, especially offensively. Fitzgerald was a Tight End playing QB, he could run for days but wasn't a very accurate passer. Its hard to win alot of games like that if that's not your coaching style. Looking in a two year window (because that's how long Moorhead coached), here are our results:

2016 Mullen: 6-7
2017 Mullen: 9-4
2018 Moorhead: 8-5
2019 Moorhead: 6-7
2020 Leach: 4-7
2021 Leach: 7-6

Mullen's magical year was 2014 with Dak Prescott, but other than that we won 7 to 9 games per year which is close to what Moorhead did. Again, Moorhead was not a good fit, but this notion that he came in and literally ruined the program just isn't true. I personally don't think Leach is a great fit, his style just doesn't fit in the SEC and if he doesn't make some offensive changes this season we are going to get embarrassed by some teams, that 5 yard dink and dunk pass game got exposed really quick

[FISHDAWG]

I'm going to get backlash from this but I'm not the Moorhead basher like the majority of you are. He wasn't a great fit, I'll admit that but how good was that team really going to be regardless? Yes we had a strong defense, very strong, but that team was put together by Mullen and what Mullen does, especially offensively. Fitzgerald was a Tight End playing QB, he could run for days but wasn't a very accurate passer. Its hard to win alot of games like that if that's not your coaching style. Looking in a two year window (because that's how long Moorhead coached), here are our results:

2016 Mullen: 6-7
2017 Mullen: 9-4
2018 Moorhead: 8-5
2019 Moorhead: 6-7
2020 Leach: 4-7
2021 Leach: 7-6

Mullen's magical year was 2014 with Dak Prescott, but other than that we won 7 to 9 games per year which is close to what Moorhead did. Again, Moorhead was not a good fit, but this notion that he came in and literally ruined the program just isn't true. I personally don't think Leach is a great fit, his style just doesn't fit in the SEC and if he doesn't make some offensive changes this season we are going to get embarrassed by some teams, that 5 yard dink and dunk pass game got exposed really quick

Can you not see the progression of 2016-2017- to what may have happened with a 2018 Mullen coached team. I tend to believe that there would have been a falloff in 2019 regardless of who was coaching but Joe killed that team and left the scraps to Leach ... Don't forget the attrition we had under year one of Leach and I do blame Moorhead for letting team / player discipline getting to that point. Neither Mullen or Leach inherited the team & talent that Moorhead did. There just is NO EXCUSE that JoMo can fall back on ... he was a fake ... has MSU ever fired a coach after only two years?

[NCMSTFAN]

Can you not see the progression of 2016-2017- to what may have happened with a 2018 Mullen coached team. I tend to believe that there would have been a falloff in 2019 regardless of who was coaching but Joe killed that team and left the scraps to Leach ... Don't forget the attrition we had under year one of Leach and I do blame Moorhead for letting team / player discipline getting to that point. Neither Mullen or Leach inherited the team & talent that Moorhead did. There just is NO EXCUSE that JoMo can fall back on ... he was a fake ... has MSU ever fired a coach after only two years?

I agree with you on the player discipline issues, Moorhead lacked in that department, and that's partly why I say he wasn't a good fit. But the "what may have been" argument just doesn't do it for me.... its not like we are a 10 plus win team every season in playoff discussion year in and year out. We are all upset about a potentially magical 2018 defense that everyone still hangs their hat on. It just makes no sense to me, no matter who was coaching nothing was promised that year.... we don't have the football winning tradition and proven coaching history like Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia etc. to feel like that. And there's two sides of the ball, as good as Fitzgerald was he probably wasn't leading us to the playoffs no matter who the coach was.

[TrapGame]

I agree with you on the player discipline issues, Moorhead lacked in that department, and that's partly why I say he wasn't a good fit. But the "what may have been" argument just doesn't do it for me.... its not like we are a 10 plus win team every season in playoff discussion year in and year out. We are all upset about a potentially magical 2018 defense that everyone still hangs their hat on. It just makes no sense to me, no matter who was coaching nothing was promised that year.... we don't have the football winning tradition and proven coaching history like Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia etc. to feel like that. And there's two sides of the ball, as good as Fitzgerald was he probably wasn't leading us to the playoffs no matter who the coach was.

We weren't a playoff team but we could have won 10 games that year. We were built to have a really good season on both sides of the ball.

[FISHDAWG]

I agree with you on the player discipline issues, Moorhead lacked in that department, and that's partly why I say he wasn't a good fit. But the "what may have been" argument just doesn't do it for me.... its not like we are a 10 plus win team every season in playoff discussion year in and year out. We are all upset about a potentially magical 2018 defense that everyone still hangs their hat on. It just makes no sense to me, no matter who was coaching nothing was promised that year.... we don't have the football winning tradition and proven coaching history like Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia etc. to feel like that. And there's two sides of the ball, as good as Fitzgerald was he probably wasn't leading us to the playoffs no matter who the coach was.

not saying we would have won a National Championship in 2018 ... I'm saying we were a 10 win team (maybe 11 win) and JoMo blew it.... As C-34 stated earlier, look at our 4 year pattern - 2010, 2014, 2018 (what might have been) and now 2022 (good expectations) .... I agree we are not known for being an offensive juggernaut but when we have the talet + good coaching then good things happen ... JoMo was like a roadblock to that in 2018

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Agreed. Worse than the Croom hire which was the 2nd worst hire in the history of college football.

Moorhead makes people like you delusional.

He wasn't the greatest coach, but comparing him to Croom is asinine. in Croom's 5 years here, we were pitiful.

I think everyone's "He was a great guy" mindset has clouded people's minds about how terrible of a coach he was. We were probably the worst Power 5 team in the nation in 2004.

[NCMSTFAN]

We weren't a playoff team but we could have won 10 games that year. We were built to have a really good season on both sides of the ball.

So say that's true, a 10 year win season vs an 8 year win season. Those two wins wouldn't have changed the trajectory of our program. Its just weird to me to hear people saying things like Moorhead ruined our program and we were destined for greatness when in all reality we pretty much stayed on par of a typical MSU football team and that's just being honest.

[NCMSTFAN]

not saying we would have won a National Championship in 2018 ... I'm saying we were a 10 win team (maybe 11 win) and JoMo blew it.... As C-34 stated earlier, look at our 4 year pattern - 2010, 2014, 2018 (what might have been) and now 2022 (good expectations) .... I agree we are not known for being an offensive juggernaut but when we have the talet + good coaching then good things happen ... JoMo was like a roadblock to that in 2018

I understand your points but come on man, the title of this thread is "I'll never forgive Moorhead"....... are we really that delusional as fans to act like he completely dismantled our program to a place it can't come back from when in all actuality he stayed on par with the type of winning/losing we are accustomed to at MSU? It's just kinda overboard in my opinion, we weren't winning a NC that year regardless.

[TrapGame]

So say that's true, a 10 year win season vs an 8 year win season. Those two wins wouldn't have changed the trajectory of our program. Its just weird to me to hear people saying things like Moorhead ruined our program and we were destined for greatness when in all reality we pretty much stayed on par of a typical MSU football team and that's just being honest.

Well, he did ruin our program. And it's weird for me that some people can't see that. We had a spread offense designed for a power run w/ short passes to keep the defense honest.

[DownwardDawg]

So say that's true, a 10 year win season vs an 8 year win season. Those two wins wouldn't have changed the trajectory of our program. Its just weird to me to hear people saying things like Moorhead ruined our program and we were destined for greatness when in all reality we pretty much stayed on par of a typical MSU football team and that's just being honest.

Mullen or a similar mindset coach would have easily won 10 games. I believe Mullen would have won 11 games that year. That's a playoff team. Probably would have gotten beat in the first round, but with the nations #1 defense, who knows.

[confucius say]

They are talented- no doubt. They lost alot of players and are lacking experience. Experience matters. We are a developmental program and when we are a veteran team we are always pretty good. 2010 won 9 games. 2014 we contended for the NC. 2018 we were loaded and Moorhead ruined it. Now it's 2022. We will be very good and are at home. Georgia better come to play

Ken Griffey Jr was hell at 9 years old- but alot of 12 year olds were still better because of maturity even tho they didnt make it to MLB. Georgia lost alot of defensive players and while talented- they have alot of inexperience out there. Supposedly the Air Raid takes advantage of shit like that. Advantage us

Hope so.

[FISHDAWG]

I understand your points but come on man, the title of this thread is "I'll never forgive Moorhead"....... are we really that delusional as fans to act like he completely dismantled our program to a place it can't come back from when in all actuality he stayed on par with the type of winning/losing we are accustomed to at MSU? It's just kinda overboard in my opinion, we weren't winning a NC that year regardless.

I'll buy that ... I don't hold animosity against JoMo - I keep pulling for him at the other schools. And yes he didn't "destroy" our program - just our occasional chance at a really good year to be proud of. But that was 4 years ago and we are just now recovering ... not to mention we just don't have that many chances at a really good year and we hate to lose even one of those chances ... here's to hoping Leach can give us more consistency

[confucius say]

I agree with you on the player discipline issues, Moorhead lacked in that department, and that's partly why I say he wasn't a good fit. But the "what may have been" argument just doesn't do it for me.... its not like we are a 10 plus win team every season in playoff discussion year in and year out. We are all upset about a potentially magical 2018 defense that everyone still hangs their hat on. It just makes no sense to me, no matter who was coaching nothing was promised that year.... we don't have the football winning tradition and proven coaching history like Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia etc. to feel like that. And there's two sides of the ball, as good as Fitzgerald was he probably wasn't leading us to the playoffs no matter who the coach was.

Joe took over a team ready to win big with the best defense in the country. He could have not thrown a pass more than 5 yards down field and went 9-3. Probably 10-2. Maybe 11-1.

Leach took over the dumpster fire Joe left off the field and ushered in an entirely new system that was contrary to what we have done for 120 years.

[confucius say]

Moorhead makes people like you delusional.

He wasn't the greatest coach, but comparing him to Croom is asinine. in Croom's 5 years here, we were pitiful.

I think everyone's "He was a great guy" mindset has clouded people's minds about how terrible of a coach he was. We were probably the worst Power 5 team in the nation in 2004.

Croom would have went 8-4 or better in 2018. He would have ran the ball all the time and played defense, which is what that team was built to do.

[confucius say]

So say that's true, a 10 year win season vs an 8 year win season. Those two wins wouldn't have changed the trajectory of our program. Its just weird to me to hear people saying things like Moorhead ruined our program and we were destined for greatness when in all reality we pretty much stayed on par of a typical MSU football team and that's just being honest.

He killed our culture. Zero accountability, soft, horrible S&C, off field train wreck, security called to hotel the night before games. It was a crap show because he didn't hold anybody accountable. He had a freaking S&C guy who looked like a soft marshmallow.

The only reason he didn't completely ruin the program was because he was fired in the middle of doing so.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Croom would have went 8-4 or better in 2018. He would have ran the ball all the time and played defense, which is what that team was built to do.

He would have ran the ball up the middle 3 times in a row and punted. We would have routinely lost games 9-0 with our 150 yards of total offense- which we did all the time.

[confucius say]

He would have ran the ball up the middle 3 times in a row and punted. We would have routinely lost games 9-0 with our 150 yards of total offense- which we did all the time.

Not with an all pro center in Jenkins, a veteran good OL, the best running qb in sec history, an nfl rb, and Aries. Running every play would have been better than what Joe was doing. Joe had 200 yards of offense against KY and Fla. Croom could have done that.
We wouldn't have thrown 4 picks at lsu and given them the game.

I'm no Croom defender, but given the same 2018 team as Joe and the best defense in America, I think he could have went 8-4 like Joe.

[TrapGame]

Not with an all pro center in Jenkins, a veteran good OL, the best running qb in sec history, an nfl rb, and Aries. Running every play would have been better than what Joe was doing. Joe had 200 yards of offense against KY and Fla. Croom could have done that.
We wouldn't have thrown 4 picks at lsu and given them the game.

I'm no Croom defender, but given the same 2018 team as Joe and the best defense in America, I think he could have went 8-4 like Joe.

Croom was as hardheaded as Joe. Whatever you think he would have done, he wouldn't have. He would have run that West Coast cluster of a offense.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Croom would have went 8-4 or better in 2018. He would have ran the ball all the time and played defense, which is what that team was built to do.

Croom would have went 7-6 or 8-5. Stoops, Mullen, Saban, O, and Jimbo would have coached circles around him. Hell this is the same guy who let Derek Dooley, Houston Nutt, and Rich Brooks coach circles around him in 2008. Not exactly hall of fame level coaches

Actually come to think of it there is no way possible would have won 7 with Croom in 18

[NCMSTFAN]

Well, he did ruin our program. And it's weird for me that some people can't see that. We had a spread offense designed for a power run w/ short passes to keep the defense honest.

He ruined our program? So let me get this straight...he stayed on par with the average winning percentage that we have sustained for the last 15 years or so, but he ruined our program? Why are some of you acting like we've been a top 3 SEC football team for the last 20 years? Moorhead did not ruin our program, he wasn't a good fit and had disciplinary issues but that's a far cry from ruining a program.

[NCMSTFAN]

I'll buy that ... I don't hold animosity against JoMo - I keep pulling for him at the other schools. And yes he didn't "destroy" our program - just our occasional chance at a really good year to be proud of. But that was 4 years ago and we are just now recovering ... not to mention we just don't have that many chances at a really good year and we hate to lose even one of those chances ... here's to hoping Leach can give us more consistency

Good post and I agree with that

[NCMSTFAN]

Joe took over a team ready to win big with the best defense in the country. He could have not thrown a pass more than 5 yards down field and went 9-3. Probably 10-2. Maybe 11-1.

Leach took over the dumpster fire Joe left off the field and ushered in an entirely new system that was contrary to what we have done for 120 years.

Leach had mostly all of his guys last year and will have that again this year, lets just wait and see what happens. I personally don't have any more faith in Leach and this system than most of you had in Moorhead. I believe Leach's teams are more disciplined but I'm nowhere near sold on Leach. In my opinion this is the year for him to prove something. I don't want to hear the tough schedule excuse either.

[NCMSTFAN]

He killed our culture. Zero accountability, soft, horrible S&C, off field train wreck, security called to hotel the night before games. It was a crap show because he didn't hold anybody accountable. He had a freaking S&C guy who looked like a soft marshmallow.

The only reason he didn't completely ruin the program was because he was fired in the middle of doing so.

I agree..... with all that said, that means he ruined our program? Some of you are overly dramatic about that. Again, he wasn't an ideal fit, but how can you ruin a middle to low of the pack SEC team by pretty much winning the same amount of games that your prior peer coaches won? He had cultural issues, that's his knock....but that's not ruining a program

[Goldendawg]

Moorhead makes people like you delusional.

He wasn't the greatest coach, but comparing him to Croom is asinine. in Croom's 5 years here, we were pitiful.

I think everyone's "He was a great guy" mindset has clouded people's minds about how terrible of a coach he was. We were probably the worst Power 5 team in the nation in 2004.

He wasn't even a great guy. We should have done our due diligence when his home school bama wouldn't even hire him. Hail State!

[KentuckyDawg13]

And tied the record for the most wins of a first year coach @ MSU.

So funny how some of you are stil upset with the "kick rocks" comment. lol

[R2Dawg]

He would have ran the ball up the middle 3 times in a row and punted. We would have routinely lost games 9-0 with our 150 yards of total offense- which we did all the time.

Ha, probably true.

Everyone debating who was worse Croom or Moorhead is funny. They were both two of worst coaches in SEC history - both at MSU. They were both bad for different reasons.

[R2Dawg]

And tied the record for the most wins of a first year coach @ MSU.

So funny how some of you are stil upset with the "kick rocks" comment. lol

That is because most coaches come in after a complete disaster. Moorhead came in with the deck stacked. JWS came in with a mess and immediately turned around. So did Mullen. Moorhead winning some games in year 1 is apples and oranges. It was more about what he inherited - talent and a culture that didn't need to be led but did the leading.

[confucius say]

Leach had mostly all of his guys last year and will have that again this year, lets just wait and see what happens. I personally don't have any more faith in Leach and this system than most of you had in Moorhead. I believe Leach's teams are more disciplined but I'm nowhere near sold on Leach. In my opinion this is the year for him to prove something. I don't want to hear the tough schedule excuse either.

Playing, objectively, the toughest league schedule in the sec is not an excuse. 7-5 is expected (our over under for wins is 6.5). 8-4 would be great. 9-3 should be sec coach of the year.

[confucius say]

I agree..... with all that said, that means he ruined our program? Some of you are overly dramatic about that. Again, he wasn't an ideal fit, but how can you ruin a middle to low of the pack SEC team by pretty much winning the same amount of games that your prior peer coaches won? He had cultural issues, that's his knock....but that's not ruining a program

I didn't say he ruined the program. I specifically said he was in the process of it when we fired him.

He averaged 7-5, which is the same thing Dan averaged (7.1-4.9). I suspect leach will be about the same. The difference is Joe took over a Ferrari and leach inherited a Taurus.

[TrapGame]

That is because most coaches come in after a complete disaster. Moorhead came in with the deck stacked. JWS came in with a mess and immediately turned around. So did Mullen. Moorhead winning some games in year 1 is apples and oranges. It was more about what he inherited - talent and a culture that didn't need to be led but did the leading.

And I don't know if some people remember this but Moorhead said we had a culture problem. He was letting guys decide when they wanted to practice or cutting practices short or when to work out with Captain Marshmallow. Yet, he thought we had a culture problem. That guy was a disease of incompetence.

[Captain Falcon]

We were trending down in a hurry under Moorhead. Had we kept him another year, that 2020 team goes 1-9 or 0-10.

[PGHBulldogBG]

Ha, probably true.

Everyone debating who was worse Croom or Moorhead is funny. They were both two of worst coaches in SEC history - both at MSU. They were both bad for different reasons.

Exactly. They were both terrible head coaches and hires for different reasons. Time to put that argument to bed. We now have a good coach that is trying to fix the problems and develop a new system while also going up against a brutal schedule for the 3rd year in a row. 2018 is just a lot more frustrating than anything during the Croom error because we had no talent or expectations going into any of the Croom seasons the way we did with Moorhead in 2018.

[NCMSTFAN]

I didn't say he ruined the program. I specifically said he was in the process of it when we fired him.

He averaged 7-5, which is the same thing Dan averaged (7.1-4.9). I suspect leach will be about the same. The difference is Joe took over a Ferrari and leach inherited a Taurus.

Took over a Ferrari? These are the kind of statements that just don't make sense to me. And I say that respectfully.... How was the 2017 team that Mullen left behind a Ferrari? We had a very good defense returning but Defense only makes up a part of a football team, Offense and Special teams play a huge part also.... Look at the 2017 schedule, our best wins were #12 LSU, TAMU and Arky that year.....we lost against Georgia, Auburn, Bama and Ole Miss and finished at 9-4 which was a solid finish for us...but not a Ferrari

[confucius say]

Took over a Ferrari? These are the kind of statements that just don't make sense to me. And I say that respectfully.... How was the 2017 team that Mullen left behind a Ferrari? We had a very good defense returning but Defense only makes up a part of a football team, Offense and Special teams play a huge part also.... Look at the 2017 schedule, our best wins were #12 LSU, TAMU and Arky that year.....we lost against Georgia, Auburn, Bama and Ole Miss and finished at 9-4 which was a solid finish for us...but not a Ferrari

Very good? You mean elite. He took over the best defense in the country. Three first rounders. Nobody had more.
He took over a three year starter at qb who is the best running qb ever in the league, an nfl back, Aries, and a veteran OL with an all pro center.

Honestly there are coaches on this board who could have taken over that team and did better than 8-4.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

He wasn't even a great guy. We should have done our due diligence when his home school bama wouldn't even hire him. Hail State!

Yeah Ive actually heard this through they years as well, but it's like you have to whisper it or someone will scold you about it.

I never really had anything personal against the guy until the SEC Films Doc. After that I was pretty done.