Insurgent warfare and football

[Maroonthirteen]

I stopped by Leachs class Friday to hear what he had to say. I only stayed an hour as I had to get to the baseball game. However..... in that hour he said..

He identifies his offense with..... drumroll..... the triple option.

I recall the context to be... he was referring to having many options each play, but the same options every play and being able to execute those plays at a high level. Also those options can to be to different players and different areas of the field.

He said triple option. I kid you not.

[FISHDAWG]

in other words ... The Airbone. I get the concept but it sure seems like some of those options would play better if the defense also had to guard against a capable run game. I know that's beating a dead horse but I just keep hoping to see some semblance of it in order to make those Air options a better sell

[Leeshouldveflanked]

I would agree that our offense closely resembles the triple option. We are basically running the airborne version of the fullback dive every play since we dont have a QB that can stretch the field.

[R2Dawg]

I stopped by Leachs class Friday to hear what he had to say. I only stayed an hour as I had to get to the baseball game. However..... in that hour he said..

He identifies his offense with..... drumroll..... the triple option.

I recall the context to be... he was referring to having many options each play, but the same options every play and being able to execute those plays at a high level. Also those options can to be to different players and different areas of the field.

He said triple option. I kid you not.

And therein lies the problem. People running the triple option are competing for what?

Ain't nothing changin - rinse, lather repeat.

[R2Dawg]

I would agree that our offense closely resembles the triple option. We are basically running the airborne version of the fullback dive every play since we dont have a QB that can stretch the field.

Yes but if you execute the fullback dive to perfection every time then bingo we can win every game. Can someone figure the odds on that?

[Maroonthirteen]

in other words ... The Airbone. l

Yep. Which that term being used here is the only reason I mention it.

His offense is what it is. To me, it is more interesting to watch than the triple option but...... yeah, we've beat this horse to death.

[Coach34]

The Airbone!!!!!

[BayouDawg]

Lol yea I cant pretend this gets me wooly for the upcoming season. Even though I generally like leach You cant sugar coat the airbone.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Hopefully one of these Airbone Fullbacks has the ability to take it to the house.

[FISHDAWG]

Hopefully one of these Airbone Fullbacks has the ability to take it to the house.

I can't even remember the last fullback we had ... was it Hanrahan?

[BeardoMSU]

I can't even remember the last fullback we had ... was it Hanrahan?

Indeed....and speaking of adapting one's offense to personnel, lol.

[Tater]

i mean if you've ever actually listened to him talk in depth before or read his book then you would know that he said it's like a passing triple option philosophy.

this isn't net new news.

[WhiskeyPirate]

No it’s not new. It is similar to the west coast offense beating defenses that shut down the run like Parcells or Buddy Ryan. Football is cyclical and I wouldn’t be surprised if a true wishbone offense with a running q b came around again.

As an aside the 85 Bears , greatest defense, greatest team ever. However about half of their hits in defense would be illegal today.

[DownwardDawg]

No it’s not new. It is similar to the west coast offense beating defenses that shut down the run like Parcells or Buddy Ryan. Football is cyclical and I wouldn’t be surprised if a true wishbone offense with a running q b came around again.

As an aside the 85 Bears , greatest defense, greatest team ever. However about half of their hits in defense would be illegal today.

Your post is spot on, and why I think we'll always be behind instead of leading. The big boys all went heavy pass years ago. They've built their defenses with personnel to stop the air at. So what does State do? We go all out air attack when most teams are already built to stop it. The smart move would have been to improve on the Mullen type offense with a better play caller and recruiter. This is what someone will be doing soon and when everyone starts adjusting to it, we'll go hire that type of coach.

[WhiskeyPirate]

I’d say a run heavy offense or a pro style offense is great if you are Alabama. If you are MSU you have to have something that is not talent on talent. That’s never going to get you over the hump.

[Bothrops]

I can't even remember the last fullback we had ... was it Hanrahan?

Man, I miss having guys like that on the field.

[Tater]

Your post is spot on, and why I think we'll always be behind instead of leading. The big boys all went heavy pass years ago. They've built their defenses with personnel to stop the air at. So what does State do? We go all out air attack when most teams are already built to stop it. The smart move would have been to improve on the Mullen type offense with a better play caller and recruiter. This is what someone will be doing soon and when everyone starts adjusting to it, we'll go hire that type of coach.

uhhh....

we tried that with moorhead. swing and a miss.

[Jarius]

Your post is spot on, and why I think we'll always be behind instead of leading. The big boys all went heavy pass years ago. They've built their defenses with personnel to stop the air at. So what does State do? We go all out air attack when most teams are already built to stop it. The smart move would have been to improve on the Mullen type offense with a better play caller and recruiter. This is what someone will be doing soon and when everyone starts adjusting to it, we'll go hire that type of coach.

Texas A&M and Alabama are singing about 5 5 star DL a year. Yea, let’s go run the ball straight up the gut every year because that’s going to get us over the hump. We only tried that for 120 years and have an Overall losing record as a program.

[Maroonthirteen]

Texas A&M and Alabama are singing about 5 5 star DL a year. Yea, let’s go run the ball straight up the gut every year because that’s going to get us over the hump. We only tried that for 120 years and have an Overall losing record as a program.

Leach and the airaid have an overall losing record the last two years. Saban absolutely coached circles around Leach the past two years. 100-9. No TDs for the AirRaid.

[sleepy dawg]

I?d say a run heavy offense or a pro style offense is great if you are Alabama. If you are MSU you have to have something that is not talent on talent. That?s never going to get you over the hump.

I agree with that. We'll never beat bama playing playing the same game they are. We need to be very different.

In regards to the triple option comment though, how is our pass offense more triple option than any pass offense? All QBs have reads to make and try to throw it to the open guy.

[BrunswickDawg]

Leach and the airaid have an overall losing record the last two years. Saban absolutely coached circles around Leach the past two years. 100-9. No TDs for the AirRaid.

90-9 not 100. Scores were 49-9 and 41-0. Only slightly worse than JoMo's 24-0 and 38-7. Or the Mullen teams that scored 7 or less 6 of 9 years he faced them.

[tcdog70]

Leach and the airaid have an overall losing record the last two years. Saban absolutely coached circles around Leach the past two years. 100-9. No TDs for the AirRaid.

Dude--Saban can coach circles around 98% of the Coaches in D1.. why because he has better Jimmys and Joes. Find something else to whine about.

[Commercecomet24]

Dude--Saban can coach circles around 98% of the Coaches in D1.. why because he has better Jimmys and Joes. Find something else to whine about.

This. It's why he averages 1 loss a year and has NC trophys stacked up to the roof.

[BeardoMSU]

Could be wrong, but don't most insurgencies (at least the successful ones) adapt their attack methods based on available equipment, geography, strength of the enemy, personnel, morale, etc.?***

https://y.yarn.co/4c0f1a1f-34cb-4db8-a51a-16022e7f8aeb_text.gif

[BayouDawg]

Could be wrong, but don't most insurgencies (at least the successful ones) adapt their attack methods based on available equipment, geography, strength of the enemy, personnel, morale, etc.?***

https://y.yarn.co/4c0f1a1f-34cb-4db8-a51a-16022e7f8aeb_text.gif

Art briles will never be an option obviously but I always loved his offense. One can dream though.

[Hot Rock]

I stopped by Leachs class Friday to hear what he had to say. I only stayed an hour as I had to get to the baseball game. However..... in that hour he said..

He identifies his offense with..... drumroll..... the triple option.

I recall the context to be... he was referring to having many options each play, but the same options every play and being able to execute those plays at a high level. Also those options can to be to different players and different areas of the field.

He said triple option. I kid you not.

Seems simple to me, both make a defense defend many areas at once on every play. In the triple option the point of attack can be A, B, C or D gaps on the same play. Then a reverse or a pass thrown in to make you keep defenders dedicated to those areas.

The Air Raid is the natural next step to the wishbone. The idea is to make the defense defend the whole 55 yard width of the field and as deep as your OL will hold up.

Seems simple to me that both are born from the same idea.

I guess people being stuck on run or pass is the problem. They can't see the concept of making a team defend the whole field,which both the Triple option and Air Raid are attempting to do.

[BayouDawg]

I agree with that. We'll never beat bama playing playing the same game they are. We need to be very different.

In regards to the triple option comment though, how is our pass offense more triple option than any pass offense? All QBs have reads to make and try to throw it to the open guy.

Thats a good point. A lot of the spread option schemes also have a lot of triple option and veer concepts. I think its disingenuous to say the air raid is the triple option just like saying the spread option is the triple option. They both have roots in it though.

[Maroonthirteen]

90-9 not 100. Scores were 49-9 and 41-0. Only slightly worse than JoMo's 24-0 and 38-7. Or the Mullen teams that scored 7 or less 6 of 9 years he faced them.

Thanks. But Ill add.....because Im so sick of the Jack Sparrow parrots...."ain't never won nutting running..."

pay attention avid reader: tcdog70:

The 2021 loss to Alabama was the largest margin of defeat for any Mississippi State football team to Alabama, that finished the season with greater than 6 wins.

Point: The throw it sideways and around them hasn't neutralized the talent gap yet. Maybe Leach will blister their tails this year or next.... we shall see. But the "we can't compete with running and defense" is not true. We have played them much much better with that formula.

[RiverCityDawg]

Thanks. But Ill add.....because Im so sick of the Jack Sparrow parrots...."ain't never won nutting running..."

pay attention avid reader: tcdog70:

The 2021 loss to Alabama was the largest margin of defeat for any Mississippi State football team to Alabama, that finished the season with greater than 6 wins.

Point: The throw it sideways and around them hasn't neutralized the talent gap yet. Maybe Leach will blister their tails this year or next.... we shall see. But the "we can't compete with running and defense" is not true. We have played them much much better with that formula.

Using one or even two years isn't a great sample size to make any determinations. We do know that since Saban showed up our "usual approach" has not worked against them. We do not yet know if this approach will work.

Most likely, neither approach will work against teams that have the talent advantage Alabama has over us, HOWEVER this offense has proven without any doubt that it does give a greater chance for success against more talented teams that the more traditional approach. Will it happen that way here remains to be seen, though we've seen glimpses of it with Leach having more top 25 wins through two years than our other coaches.

[HancockCountyDog]

The only way we can win big is with a Dual threat QB that can extend plays and make enough throws so that teams have to respect his arm.

We can recruit well enough on Defense to win big with that type of kid at QB and with an offense that takes advantage of that skill set.

That is not the route we are going right now, so hopefully I'm wrong.

[WhiskeyPirate]

The only way we can win big is with a Dual threat QB that can extend plays and make enough throws so that teams have to respect his arm.

We can recruit well enough on Defense to win big with that type of kid at QB and with an offense that takes advantage of that skill set.

That is not the route we are going right now, so hopefully I'm wrong.

With the d lines in the sec, a q b with some mobility and a quick release/quick reads sure is a plus. I don?t think you will ever see a run first q b. Minshew was a good example of a guy who was tough to sack, could run for a first down and got the ball out quickly.

[DownwardDawg]

The only way we can win big is with a Dual threat QB that can extend plays and make enough throws so that teams have to respect his arm.

We can recruit well enough on Defense to win big with that type of kid at QB and with an offense that takes advantage of that skill set.

That is not the route we are going right now, so hopefully I'm wrong.
You are correct.

[BeardoMSU]

With the d lines in the sec, a q b with some mobility and a quick release/quick reads sure is a plus. I don?t think you will ever see a run first q b. Minshew was a good example of a guy who was tough to sack, could run for a first down and got the ball out quickly.

Yeah, this offense MUST have some level of QB mobility. Sacks, OL-holds, and false starts killed drive after drive last year.

[HancockCountyDog]

Yeah, this offense MUST have some level of QB mobility. Sacks, OL-holds, and false starts killed drive after drive last year.

Any team that wasn't blessed with a ton of first round talent, that has been successful in the SEC in the last 10 years (10 wins or more) have had an extremely mobile QB that put a ton of pressure on defenses.

MSU - Dak
bears - Corral and Kelly
AU - Cam and Marshall
A&M - Manziel
SC - Conner Shaw

[BayouDawg]

The only way we can win big is with a Dual threat QB that can extend plays and make enough throws so that teams have to respect his arm.

We can recruit well enough on Defense to win big with that type of kid at QB and with an offense that takes advantage of that skill set.

That is not the route we are going right now, so hopefully I'm wrong.

You make a great point. I think we may could get by with a qb that is a pocket passer but just had good escapability. Like minshew as whisky said. Will has been solid but it looks like he is running in quicksand sometimes.

[BeardoMSU]

Any team that wasn't blessed with a ton of first round talent, that has been successful in the SEC in the last 10 years (10 wins or more) have had an extremely mobile QB that put a ton of pressure on defenses.

MSU - Dak
bears - Corral and Kelly
AU - Cam and Marshall
A&M - Manziel
SC - Conner Shaw

Exactly. Look at the NFL...how many Eli "cinder block foot " Manning's are there?

[whispers...none]

[BeardoMSU]

You make a great point. I think we may could get by with a qb that is a pocket passer but just had good escapability. Like minshew as whisky said. Will has been solid but it looks like he is running in quicksand sometimes.

This. I still think Will can be a good to great QB, but he MUST have better pocket awareness. Tho, I loathe the lack of bootlegs called for him, or just general pocket movement...but alas, see my Red Dawn post...

[Jarius]

Leach and the airaid have an overall losing record the last two years. Saban absolutely coached circles around Leach the past two years. 100-9. No TDs for the AirRaid.

Leach and the Air Raid won 3 games against teams that finished in the top 25 last year. That’s better than what we did with the starting quarterback of the Dallas cowboys. That proves that the offense gives us a chance more often than we have in the past to beat teams with more talent than us. Fortunately for us and everyone else, Alabama isn’t the only team on our schedule. Also, continuing to talk about us having an overall losing record when year 1 was a 10 game sec schedule where a team that won 1 more game than us and also had a losing record in the regular season that year went to a New Year’s day bowl shows that you have a huge agenda. Not to mention the amount of players we had to play with on multiple occasions that year along with not having a spring with a completely different style offense to what we have run for 120 years. Yea, hang on to that.

[BeardoMSU]

Leach and the Air Raid won 3 games against teams that finished in the top 25 last year. That’s better than what we did with the starting quarterback of the Dallas cowboys. That proves that the offense gives us a chance more often than we have in the past to beat teams with more talent than us. Fortunately for us and everyone else, Alabama isn’t the only team on our schedule. Also, continuing to talk about us having an overall losing record when year 1 was a 10 game sec schedule where a team that won 1 more game than us and also had a losing record in the regular season that year went to a New Year’s day bowl shows that you have a huge agenda. Not to mention the amount of players we had to play with on multiple occasions that year along with not having a spring with a completely different style offense to what we have run for 120 years. Yea, hang on to that.

Sure, but that doesn't excuse his stubbornness to adapt.

[Coach34]

Leach and the Air Raid won 3 games against teams that finished in the top 25 last year. That’s better than what we did with the starting quarterback of the Dallas cowboys.

haha-no. Leach beat Kentucky and NC State who finished ranked. That's 2. And lost to garbage Memphis and a bad LSU team

2014's only losses were to teams that finished in the top 10. They also finished with 2 top 25 wins

[Jarius]

haha-no. Leach beat Kentucky and NC State who finished ranked. That's 2. And lost to garbage Memphis and a bad LSU team

2014's only losses were to teams that finished in the top 10. They also finished with 2 top 25 wins

I will let you figure out where you are wrong, because you are. Also never said that we didn’t have bad losses. We had 3 top 25 wins in 2021 which rarely if ever happens. That’s a higher ceiling than we have basically ever had. Just have to eliminate the bad losses.

The 2014 team was 2-3 against teams that finished in the top 25. 2021 team was 3-3. The difference in the season was 2014 beating teams they should have beaten for the most part.

[Coach34]

I will let you figure out where you are wrong, because you are. .

I've looked twice and A&M didnt finish in the top 25 in the AP poll

But at the end of the day- the 2021 team's ceiling was never as close at the 2014 team. The 2014 team could have beaten Bama had the game been in Sville. Didnt play bad for it being in T-Town but the turnovers hurt. Leach's teams have yet to be competitive with Bama. 2018 was also a higher ceiling but JoMo sucked.

2021 wasnt competitive with Bama for even a quarter. 2021 beat an average Kentucky team and NC State. Embarrassed at home by Bama and Mississippi, and almost by La Tech.

2022 is a team that should compete. We'll see what happens

[Jarius]

I've looked twice and A&M didnt finish in the top 25 in the AP poll

But at the end of the day- the 2021 team's ceiling was never as close at the 2014 team. The 2014 team could have beaten Bama had the game been in Sville. Didnt play bad for it being in T-Town but the turnovers hurt. Leach's teams have yet to be competitive with Bama. 2018 was also a higher ceiling but JoMo sucked.

2021 wasnt competitive with Bama for even a quarter. 2021 beat an average Kentucky team and NC State. Embarrassed at home by Bama and Mississippi, and almost by La Tech.

2022 is a team that should compete. We'll see what happens

Look at the poll that actually matters and you will figure it out. Alabama in 2014 had a quarterback that was a running back for most of his career. That team wasn’t as good as 2020 or 2021 Alabama. That being said, we were completely non competitive with Alabama in Leach’s first 2 years. The problem is we are comparing leach year 1 and 2 to Mullen’s 6th year in the program with a quarterback that had been on campus for 3 years. Mullen was completely non competitive for 7 of his 9 games against alabama.

You keep calling the teams we beat in 2021 average but them plus Texas A&M who finished the year ranked 25th in the only poll that matters (and beat Alabama) were all quality opponents. They were as good as anyone the 2014 team beat. We return 17 starters from that team. Need to clean up the bad losses now that we have a veteran team. It’s really obvious that this offense raises our ceiling tremendously against teams that outrecruit us (if you want to throw out Alabama in that statement then fine you can throw them out for almost everyone else too).

[Coach34]

We'll just disagree. 2014 beat 3 teams that were AP top 10 at the time. 2021 beat an A&M with a back-up QB getting experience and Kentucky at home. NC State at home.

[Jarius]

We'll just disagree. 2014 beat 3 teams that were AP top 10 at the time. 2021 beat an A&M with a back-up QB getting experience and Kentucky at home. NC State at home.

They were top 10 at the time because they were overrated, not because they were actually good. LSU and A&M quarterbacks we played were really bad in 2014. We beat Auburn this year when they were ranked 17th on the road if you want to go down that road but I didn’t even mention it because they weren’t any good.

The same backup quarterback beat Alabama on a half a leg the very next week after we beat A&M last year.

[Cooterpoot]

I don't care what Leach calls it, it better be better than the last two years. That offense is hard to watch and easy to defend. Two years of boring inconsistency. Two blow outs by the team he was brought in to "compete" with and losses to his rival. The SEC sucked this past year minus two teams and one of those two was down compared to previous years.

[Hot Rock]

We'll just disagree. 2014 beat 3 teams that were AP top 10 at the time. 2021 beat an A&M with a back-up QB getting experience and Kentucky at home. NC State at home.



Get this those three top ten programs they beat in 2014 all lost at least 5 games and we had Dak who made incredible plays. It wasn't some great coaching job by Mullen. They weren't good wins and Leach's were way better, deal with it.

[Cooterpoot]

You bunch of trolls and 17ing losers trying to shit on 2014 are a damn joke. Wake me up when Leach wins more than 7 or 8 games and finishes ranked, and gets us to a NY6 game. Last year was one of the weakest in the SEC I've seen in a long time. AL and LSU were beatable. AU was bad. Hell, we beat A&M and KY most years anyway. Take all that hate somewhere else. Mike Leach has a job to do. Til he does it, he's nothing here.
Here's to hoping this is the year.

[Hot Rock]

You bunch of trolls and 17ing losers trying to shit on 2014 are a damn joke. Wake me up when Leach wins more than 7 or 8 games and finishes ranked, and gets us to a NY6 game. Last year was one of the weakest in the SEC I've seen in a long time. AL and LSU were beatable. AU was bad. Hell, we beat A&M and KY most years anyway. Take all that hate somewhere else. Mike Leach has a job to do. Til he does it, he's nothing here.
Here's to hoping this is the year.

I wasn't trolling the 2014 team, just the guy claiming 3 top ten wins in a row. None of those teams ended up ranked (Correction - Auburn ended up 22nd). They all lost 5 or 6 games by the end of the year. Going back and bragging on that year and how great Mullen did is a joke.

[Coach34]

Going back and bragging on that year and how great Mullen did is a joke.

Finishing 7th in the country and the highest ranking in school history is a joke? Well ok. Here's something you will never see Mike Leach do at State:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/11688921/mississippi-state-bulldogs-rise-no-1-associated-press-college-football-poll

"The Bulldogs received 45 first-place votes from the media panel Sunday. Mississippi State beat Auburn 38-23 on Saturday, its third straight victory against a top-10 team."

[BrunswickDawg]

I wasn't trolling the 2014 team, just the guy claiming 3 top ten wins in a row. None of those teams ended up ranked (Correction - Auburn ended up 22nd). They all lost 5 or 6 games by the end of the year. Going back and bragging on that year and how great Mullen did is a joke.

I think shitting on what Mullen did in '14 is just as bad as shitting on what Leach did last year. Were LSU, A&M and Auburn as good in '14 as some years? Maybe not - but one reason their records were so bad is that MSU was having a peak season. That's a loss those 3 teams usually chalk up as wins (well, A&M doesn't now but did at the time). It's not like they were out losing to OOC teams. LSU lost to us, #5 Auburn, #4 Bama, & Arky and was #22 going into their bowl loss against Notre Dame. A&M lost to #12 MSU, #3 OM, #7 Bama (in back-to-back-to-back weeks), then east champ Mizzou and LSU. Auburn lost to #3 MSU, A&M, #16 UGA, and #2 Bama then #17 Wisconsin in a bowl. Did Leach have our best season? No. Did we have some big wins against ranked teams? Yes.

I swear we are the only fanbase that looks to downgrade any accomplishments or good wins. ANY win over an SEC school without an anchor on their helmet is a good win - regardless of their record because SEC wins really determine our fate more than anything else. Beating A&M LSU and Auburn in '14 was big and great for the program. Beating ranked A&M, Auburn, & Kentucky in '21 was big and great for the program - recognizing that we still have work to do.

[Cooterpoot]

Using ranked team wins as a standard for a great season is horseshit. Would you rather win 10 games and 2 ranked opponents or 6 games and 4 ranked opponents. Cause at the end of the year, WE will be ranked higher with those 10 wins than those 6. Give me some more 10 win seasons and NY6 game.

[Commercecomet24]

I think shitting on what Mullen did in '14 is just as bad as shitting on what Leach did last year. Were LSU, A&M and Auburn as good in '14 as some years? Maybe not - but one reason their records were so bad is that MSU was having a peak season. That's a loss those 3 teams usually chalk up as wins (well, A&M doesn't now but did at the time). It's not like they were out losing to OOC teams. LSU lost to us, #5 Auburn, #4 Bama, & Arky and was #22 going into their bowl loss against Notre Dame. A&M lost to #12 MSU, #3 OM, #7 Bama (in back-to-back-to-back weeks), then east champ Mizzou and LSU. Auburn lost to #3 MSU, A&M, #16 UGA, and #2 Bama then #17 Wisconsin in a bowl. Did Leach have our best season? No. Did we have some big wins against ranked teams? Yes.

I swear we are the only fanbase that looks to downgrade any accomplishments or good wins. ANY win over an SEC school without an anchor on their helmet is a good win - regardless of their record because SEC wins really determine our fate more than anything else. Beating A&M LSU and Auburn in '14 was big and great for the program. Beating ranked A&M, Auburn, & Kentucky in '21 was big and great for the program - recognizing that we still have work to do.

You nailed it again on everything. And I 100% agree ALL SEC wins are good wins, because every single game is tough and competitive.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BrunswickDawg again.

[Hot Rock]

Finishing 7th in the country and the highest ranking in school history is a joke? Well ok. Here's something you will never see Mike Leach do at State:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/11688921/mississippi-state-bulldogs-rise-no-1-associated-press-college-football-poll

"The Bulldogs received 45 first-place votes from the media panel Sunday. Mississippi State beat Auburn 38-23 on Saturday, its third straight victory against a top-10 team."

Claiming 3 top ten wins in a row is the joke. And what Mullen did in his 6th year was great. Not shitting on him or that team at all, just you for bringing up 3 top ten wins in a row when in fact none of those teams were top ten worthy. I looked at that year as impressive [performance by Mullen and the team especially considering Mullen checked out after the Bama loss and started shopping himself around loosing 3 of last 4. That's when I knew we were in trouble with Mullen but I wouldn't let myself believe it. Teams should get better toward the end of the year, not worse.

Then I see C34 saying we will see what Leach does and comparing Leach to the Mullen's best year which was year 6 by the way. Leach should field a better team this year and the offense should be much better. I know I hope so. I am for giving Leach 9 years providing he keeps showing progress and then compare to Mullen. If he makes it to year nine, we all should be happy and not looking for reasons to hate his offense.

[Coach34]

Then I see C34 saying we will see what Leach does and comparing Leach to the Mullen's best year which was year 6 by the way. Leach should field a better team this year and the offense should be much better.

Feel free to compare Y3 of Leach to Y2 of Mullen. This is Leach's best team yet so 9-4 should certainly be attainable.

[DownwardDawg]

Thanks. But Ill add.....because Im so sick of the Jack Sparrow parrots...."ain't never won nutting running..."

pay attention avid reader: tcdog70:

The 2021 loss to Alabama was the largest margin of defeat for any Mississippi State football team to Alabama, that finished the season with greater than 6 wins.

Point: The throw it sideways and around them hasn't neutralized the talent gap yet. Maybe Leach will blister their tails this year or next.... we shall see. But the "we can't compete with running and defense" is not true. We have played them much much better with that formula.


Mullen's offense could have beaten them at least twice with a better play caller.

[DownwardDawg]

You bunch of trolls and 17ing losers trying to shit on 2014 are a damn joke. Wake me up when Leach wins more than 7 or 8 games and finishes ranked, and gets us to a NY6 game. Last year was one of the weakest in the SEC I've seen in a long time. AL and LSU were beatable. AU was bad. Hell, we beat A&M and KY most years anyway. Take all that hate somewhere else. Mike Leach has a job to do. Til he does it, he's nothing here.
Here's to hoping this is the year.

That 2014 State team could name the score against the 2021 State team. No doubt.

[FISHDAWG]

That 2014 State team could name the score against the 2021 State team. No doubt.

That 2014 team had way more draft picks on it than the 2021 team had ... that alone should tell the true story. The sad part is the 2014 team should have beaten OM but our coach just mentally checked out and we played the Orange bowl without our DC because Mullen threw him under the bus after the OM loss ... that team was better than the 2021 no question about it. Now the question becomes did Leach do a better job than Mullen did given the quality wins (although it wasn't as many) in 2021. That can be debated as Mullen in year 6 of his tenure vs Leach in year two of his tenure ... in other words that book has still not yet been written

[Hot Rock]

[QUOTE=Coach34;1425098]Feel free to compare Y3 of Leach to Y2 of Mullen. This is Leach's best team yet so 9-4 should certainly be attainable.[/QUOTEI

I need to see progress this year too and really expect better. 9-4 is possible or even better but I just see you discrediting Leach at every turn ever since he was announced. You shut up a bit when he wins but the first crack of weakness you will pop back up the first chance get to scream and say, "See, his offense sucks." It gets old.

[Coach34]

[QUOTE=Coach34;1425098]Feel free to compare Y3 of Leach to Y2 of Mullen. This is Leach's best team yet so 9-4 should certainly be attainable.[/QUOTEI

I need to see progress this year too and really expect better. 9-4 is possible or even better but I just see you discrediting Leach at every turn ever since he was announced.

I dont have to say anything. The world watched us vs the 97th ranked Mississippi D and the 87th ranked Texas Tech D

[RiverCityDawg]

[QUOTE=Hot Rock;1425120]

I dont have to say anything. The world watched us vs the 97th ranked Mississippi D and the 87th ranked Texas Tech D

What about us on the road vs the 3rd ranked scoring defense? Or vs UK who was just outside the top 25 in defense, or on the road against Auburn who was 27th in scoring defense.

We were dismal in the two games you mentioned, but we were not a bad offense, we were an inconsistent offense who in the end was average to a little above average, but has room to get a lot better. I would be surprised if we didn't take another step forward this year, the question is how much.

[Hot Rock]

[QUOTE=Hot Rock;1425120]

I dont have to say anything. The world watched us vs the 97th ranked Mississippi D and the 87th ranked Texas Tech D

You say on just how difficult this offense is to run and then say it sucks the first time it doesn't work.

This offense is hard to run and even harder to coach. Thing is, Leach has shown his methods work but they do have some serious growing pains because it can also fail miserably when things are not executed against even the worst defenses. I once said Croom's offense couldn't complete a a pass against air. Days like that happen when you go pass first and then Leach can lose to South Alabama or something stupid.

If he gets this thing going, it can take us to new heights. It may take another NFL QB like DAK or a guy like Brady to win the SEC to make it happen but the ceiling is much higher with it than any offense we have ever ran.

The other thing that bothers me is looking back at Mullen. He left, we didnt' fire him. Quit pining for his love and affection. He gone.

[Hot Rock]

Don't you dare say how simple this offense is. It is simple to understand but hard as hell to execute to the level that it takes to be good.

[WhiskeyPirate]

Texas Tech is the asterisk of all asterisk, sixteen players missing off the two deep.....I would not have even played the game. It was good sportsmanship for MSU to even show up. That was a junior varsity game for anybody watching who cares to be honest. Ok tech was better than are backup linebackers playing d line.

Talk Memphis if you want to talk about an unnecessary loss. And even that should have the officials serving ten years in gitmo for blatant fraud.

[Coach34]

We're all on the same page. We expect better in Y3. Not sure what the problem is.

[BayouDawg]

We're all on the same page. We expect better in Y3. Not sure what the problem is.

Yep year 3 is time for Leach to have a good showing or I will probably be abandoning ship. I think this will be a good year though.

[Jarius]

You bunch of trolls and 17ing losers trying to shit on 2014 are a damn joke. Wake me up when Leach wins more than 7 or 8 games and finishes ranked, and gets us to a NY6 game. Last year was one of the weakest in the SEC I've seen in a long time. AL and LSU were beatable. AU was bad. Hell, we beat A&M and KY most years anyway. Take all that hate somewhere else. Mike Leach has a job to do. Til he does it, he's nothing here.
Here's to hoping this is the year.

Go change your tampon. The 2014 year was one of our best ever. That doesn’t change anything I said. Just because facts hurt your feelings don’t mean they ain’t facts. Our current offense allows us to compete more often against teams that have more talent. It just does. The first 2 years have shown that. Mullen’s offense didn’t have the ceiling this one does but we rarely lost to teams with equal or less talent. That’s the trade off. 2014 was a year where the blue bloods were not as good as normal and we had one of if not the best player in the country playing quarterback and still lost 3 games. We need our veteran team to step up and not have shitty games against Memphis and mediocre SEC teams this year.