Baseball has lost the MSU identity

[Todd4State]

Absolutely disgusting weekend and there are no two ways to sugarcoat that. We don't play good baseball and we have this primadonna philosophy where we try to strike everyone out or try to hit a home run everytime and pull everything. When you play the game the wrong way- we all see the results. This weekend is exhibit A- hell this season is exhibit A for why I don't like those philosophies. We are playing the way a lot of these baseball influencers say you should play the game because their data says to do it this way and the problem is it doesn't work in real life because the game isn't played on a spreadsheet with data. And it's absolutely unacceptable for MSU baseball's standard.

The Cardinals have a core identity that they call the "Cardinal way" and all it really is is a standard of how to play the game. Every team should have that so when they deviate from that standard they can go back to the gold standard of their core and make adjustments. MSU baseball is the same way. For me, that's play the game HARD the right way and do whatever it takes to win. We're going to attack the strike zone, play good defense, we're going to hit with power but we're also going to be able to steal bases, take the extra base and bunt or whatever we have to do to win." This team is out of bounds on most of that and it's going to take Lemonis fixing the identity of the team to get it back. Based on the interviews I have been reading I think he knows what is wrong and that we are away from that standard and that's why I place much of the burden on the assistants. You can come back at me with "Well the buck stops with Lemonis" and I will say that it is up to the coach to set the standard and make sure the assistants are on board with the core standard. But at the same time he should get a chance to fix this by any means necessary. And if the assistants have their heads too far up their ass to follow the standard then I'm going to give Lemonis a chance with different assistants that fit what we want to do.

Pitching injuries have made this team a lot worse there is no doubt about it. But there should not be the extreme gap between our rotation guys and the next guys up. There's too much let's strike everyone out by throwing up in the zone and not enough focus on attacking the strike zone and let's focus on each pitcher as an individual and coach them to their strengths as opposed to "Well we're going to make this guy pitch like Nolan Ryan when he throws 94 and he doesn't even really know how to command the ball yet." I see a bunch of pitchers that want to end up on Pitching Ninja so they can strut around and be cool on Twitter and are less concerned about getting an out and winning the game. Parker Stinnett is the WORST offender of this. He "has to" start to be effective so he can get loose. Tries to strike everyone out. Gets his feelings hurt if someone hits the ball. And the only time I've ever seen him perform in his life in baseball was when people were calling him out on social media for being shitty (again) against Tulane. What a waste of talent. Not surprised he comes from Oxford. And for Foxhall to not realize that we don't have any LHP on the roster is just astounding. As far as this year at this point it basically hinges on whether or not KC Hunt can eat enough innings and whether or not Brandon Smith, Cade Smith, and Preston Johnson can eat enough innings to overcome the other girls on the staff. Great job Foxhall.**

Hitting isn't a whole lot better. I don't know why we just randomly decided to go away from the lineup that was working other than I guess Lemonis really like Drew McGowan or something. It's one thing to go 1-15 or whatever in a game when you're putting the ball in play. I get that happens sometimes with hitting. But we're not even making contact with runners on. And again- I think we have too many players that would rather strike out because they might hit a home run and then they can get on social media and have people talk about their bat flip than they do about getting the bat on the ball and hitting a fly ball or hitting a ground ball to the right side. We win the game but they don't get to go viral as an individual. People can complain about batting average and all of that but the reality is based on how this team is designed it's not going to hit for a high average because it's all home run or nothing almost. Which is going to lead to a lot of strike outs and lazy fly balls and pop outs in between the home runs. But guess what? It doesn't really work because no one is on base to drive in so we just end up hitting a bunch of one run solo shots. That's why MSU is better when we have guys that can get on base at the top of the order and hopefully bottom as well because then they can steal bases, you can hit and run, you can bunt hopefully for a hit and cause a lot of stress on the other team. And then the guys that are power hitters have guys to drive in and then they become magically better players because then it's more difficult to pitch to them with runners on base. For some reason we've gotten away from that and I don't know why. We have no balance on offense. When you have speed/OBP havoc guys that can get on base then it helps you against other aces because those are the types of games where manufacturing runs is more of a premium. Now the power guys are still good don't get me wrong because having the ability to hit a home run can turn the game around at any moment. And we need that as well in our offense. Guys like Clark, Palmeiro, Rooker, and etc are every bit as much a part of MSU baseball as Mangum, TA, and Rowdey. But it's the combination of BOTH types of hitters that makes the offense a MSU baseball standard offense. IF Gautreau ever decides to hit with a gap to gap approach with this group I guarantee you the offense will be better and we won't really lose much power at all. He needs to teach these hitters situational baseball, needs to teach them to protect the plate, and he needs to teach guys like Davis and Bray how to bunt at an average level so that they can use their speed to get on base.

Defensively- overall not bad. But we have to stop dropping fly balls. That's just reps. And that should happen even less frequently at home.

Once we get our culture back then our program will be back as well. Because this ain't it. And if you think that Lemonis is Chizik or Coach O - let me tell you he's not going to stand for this for long. He has a big opportunity here and he'll run off some assistants first if they're not up to his standard. When I read about Lemonis wanting us to hit more gap to gap and when I hear about him yelling at Foxhall to take a guy out then I feel pretty certain he's not just collecting a check. The other two- I don't know. But they better get their heads out of their ass pretty soon and they need to re-evaluate their philosophies this offseason. Both of them- especially Gutreau might want to look at a roster before he goes recruiting too. Might not have to hit the portal as much next time around if we already have a MIF and CF on campus already.

[GolfDawg]

Good post. We all love MSU baseball because it is a blue collar, scrappy, we will work harder than you type of program. We will beat you by turning a single into a double. We get knocked down and we will get back up and hit you back harder. Haven?t seen much of that this year. Seen a lot of sloppiness, lack of hustle, and poor approach in multiple facets of the game. Coach better take a good hard look at why this has happened and some tough decisions may need to be made.

[HoopsDawg]

I'm going to be honest, I didn't read the whole post. But I'm not a big believer in posts that talk about losing our identity or lack of leadership, etc. Hard truth, we didn't recruit well this offseason, and we didn't recruit particularly well the past couple of years.

We needed another LHP, we didn't sign one. We needed another MIF, we didn't go get one. We needed another CF or OF and we didn't go and get one. We needed another bullpen arm or 2. We are MSU. We are the defending national champs. We have NIL + $6,000 in academic bonus money. We can also offer in-state tuition to out of state recruits. You get to play in the new Dude and play in the SEC. It seems it should be a little easier to fill the gaps or holes in the roster. We found RJ thank goodness. I don't know if it's a lack of evaluation or lack effort, but it better get fixed in a hurry.

As for this year, it's like I said yesterday, settle on a CF put him in the 8 hole. Settle on a SS and PH for him his 3rd AB with Slate/ and play the other guy the rest of the game. That's all we can do.

As for pitching, I want to eliminate certain guys on the weekend but then you end up with about 5 guys. Bottom line, guys like Fristoe and Stinnett are going to have to step up their games. Tepper and Tullar and some other guys have been given chances and they haven't performed either. It is what it is at this point.

[Schultzy]

Extreme gaps have always existed between the top two pitchers on a team and the rest of the staff.

The problem with this team is timely hitting.

[Todd4State]

Extreme gaps have always existed between the top two pitchers on a team and the rest of the staff.

The problem with this team is timely hitting.

The gap between pitchers should be more like our front line guy strikes out a ton of hitters and then next guy up is more of a contact ground ball oriented guy that can still throw strikes. Not elite front line guy and then the next guy up has no clue where the ball is going and doesn't attack the strike zone.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

No Alphas on this team. You thought maybe Tanner or Hancock would be coming into this year. Sims was the only Alpha and hes gone.

[Maroonthirteen]

No it hasn't. It's a bad year. Nothing more or less.

I'll admit. I read your title only. Not the War and Peace analysis.

[KOdawg1]

3324

[basedog]

I'm going to be honest, I didn't read the whole post. But I'm not a big believer in posts that talk about losing our identity or lack of leadership, etc. Hard truth, we didn't recruit well this offseason, and we didn't recruit particularly well the past couple of years.

We needed another LHP, we didn't sign one. We needed another MIF, we didn't go get one. We needed another CF or OF and we didn't go and get one. We needed another bullpen arm or 2. We are MSU. We are the defending national champs. We have NIL + $6,000 in academic bonus money. We can also offer in-state tuition to out of state recruits. You get to play in the new Dude and play in the SEC. It seems it should be a little easier to fill the gaps or holes in the roster. We found RJ thank goodness. I don't know if it's a lack of evaluation or lack effort, but it better get fixed in a hurry.

As for this year, it's like I said yesterday, settle on a CF put him in the 8 hole. Settle on a SS and PH for him his 3rd AB with Slate/ and play the other guy the rest of the game. That's all we can do.

As for pitching, I want to eliminate certain guys on the weekend but then you end up with about 5 guys. Bottom line, guys like Fristoe and Stinnett are going to have to step up their games. Tepper and Tullar and some other guys have been given chances and they haven't performed either. It is what it is at this point.

I am right there with you on your thoughts. Let say I've watched Msu baseball about as long as anyone on ED and I will tell you our program ain't gonna "die or go away". Way too much invested and pride with tradition, but this year is a complete disaster! We have several problems to get things fixed but I bet all will be fixed, I'm sure things will get shaken up and back to Msu baseball.

This may be the most overrated under achieving team I have ever seen, I am shocked, but I saw a letdown this year but nothing like a complete meltdown!

I can only imagine what is going on in Cohen and Lemonis head right now?

[Kylesandi338]

Gautreau is ALOT of our problem on offense. We have never had a good offensive club and this year he is trying to make us into a POWER team with alot of new guys. I am not saying we havent had talented hitters over the last few years , or had good games, but overall our offense has been pretty bad and propped up by our pitching staffs in the last few years. I can count on one hand how many times we have bunted this year. And half of them were failed bunts. This team seems to lack fundamentals of the game and now they are being praised for hitting homeruns. Homeruns are great but when 99% of your team is hitting below .300 , that tells you that you either have sub par talent or the approach is wrong. All the opposing pitchers have to do is throw a first strike fast ball down the middle (which we will watch go by without swinging), and then follow up with 2 breaking balls that bounce off the plate ( which we will swing at). It amazes me that you can get to this level of play and look so bad. I know there is a BIG adjustment but geeeeezzzzz these kids seems to be getting worst at the plate. As far as errors on defense, We are horrible and should be able to get this fixed ( routine pop ups being dropped, and KJ not being able to get the ball from 3rd to 1st base without making Luke Hancock pull a superman scoop on every play. Not giving up on this team, but we got a big hill to climb to get out of this. Get swept one more weekend and we will be sitting home come post season. There is blame to go around with ALL the coaching staff. But players need a leader on the team also. Just all around Bad performances..

[shoeless joe]

Mental weakness. Gotta recruit mentally tough guys to state no matter the sport. When fristoe thought he’d struck the guy out but didn’t get the call that changed the game. He couldn’t execute quality pitches after that. And if you’re gonna play college ball you’ve got to be able to overcome bad calls.

Hitters have to be able to put the ball in play.

Travel ball mentality has wreaked havoc on high school baseball and we are now seeing it within our program. Gotta get tougher and recruit guys with a certain make up that can be recognized and targeted. Somethin Mullen was very good at.

[sleepy dawg]

I love Todds big articles. There is a great lack of good baseball write-ups so I appreciate seeing his.

[Cooterpoot]

Mental weakness. Gotta recruit mentally tough guys to state no matter the sport. When fristoe thought he’d struck the guy out but didn’t get the call that changed the game. He couldn’t execute quality pitches after that. And if you’re gonna play college ball you’ve got to be able to overcome bad calls.

Hitters have to be able to put the ball in play.

Travel ball mentality has wreaked havoc on high school baseball and we are now seeing it within our program. Gotta get tougher and recruit guys with a certain make up that can be recognized and targeted. Somethin Mullen was very good at.

Honestly, there's no such thing as a mentally weak P5 player. Those get eliminated very quickly. We lack talent overall and the injuries compounded the problem. We brought in a bunch of non-P5 transfers that created more problems than solved problems. We failed to sign a viable SS since Lemonis arrived. Same for CF. We don't know what to do with James still. We took too many Juco guys too. Our recruiting simply isn't good enough and looking at "baseball rankings" for recruiting is laughable because they're bogus as hell.

[AROB44]

I love Todds big articles. There is a great lack of good baseball write-ups so I appreciate seeing his.

Well, I must say I am the opposite of you. Articles that long are just too much for me. Heck, even Rick Cleveland's pieces aren't that long. Todd must be a frustrated sports writer.

[Ari Gold]

I said it weeks ago ..
The honeymoon of the Natty is over.
And is next year any better ?? And don’t hive me this is a rebuilding year.. we lost 3 guys ( rowdy, Allen , bednar) I get it those are big shoes to fill so where is the young talent ??. Next year we lose James, Logan, RJ, possible Hancock and Clark is draft eligible .. and can some Scout and or GM please take “Mule” in round 20 and get him to sign.

Yes injuries really killed us this year. Sims going down deflated the team and Simmons with the closer role , but where are these great arms we all heard about?

This is no knock on kids but we have about 6-7 guys that shouldn’t even be considered as everyday players here. They are role players at best
Thank God for RJ , and we screwed around with him the first 3-4 weeks either not playing him and letting him battle thru his slow start (aka Rowdy) , or batting him 8th. We had no better options at leadoff or 2 hole and this guy was a proven hitter over his career

We all don’t know what goes on in the clubhouse or off the field , but it’s like this staff is coaching a 10/11 year old team where we keep moms and dads happy by making sure we play their kids. CF is an absolute embarrassment.. SS in year 4 of this staff is an embarrassment, LF isn’t much better ( and all you Mule lovers don’t even chime in )

Again it’s not these kids fault we haven’t recruited over them for them not to be in the lineups everyday.
I haven’t watched all the SEC teams play but name me one team where our SS, Cf, and even LF would start???

In game coaching, Foxhall has done about as bad of job to me as you can do with a staff. With the HC , Taking out Hines in the 5th inning of that game Saturday was the ****ing dumbest shit I have ever seen , prob cost us the game .. not to mention not letting Hunt close the game out Friday.. Hey Foxhall and Lemoins we don’t have a true closer why take that kid out.. ?? Is this job too big for Lemoins? Yes we have a natty but in all fairness that team rode the shoulders on Tanner Allen to win that .. with Bednar and Sims. That wasn’t even close to the sort talented team we have had o er the last 10-15 not even close.

Again the honeymoon is over .. this isnt Fresno State or Costal Carolina where you can slide in a natty and it doesn’t matter what you do years after. With our history , fan support, facilities , and support from the administration baseball gets here this shouldn’t be happening coming off a National Championship .
Underachieving is one thing it happens from time to time , but underachieving with limited talent shouldn’t be happening here..

[BrunswickDawg]

I said it weeks ago ..
The honeymoon of the Natty is over.
And is next year any better ?? And don’t hive me this is a rebuilding year.. we lost 3 guys ( rowdy, Allen , bednar) I get it those are big shoes to fill so where is the young talent ??. Next year we lose James, Logan, RJ, possible Hancock and Clark is draft eligible .. and can some Scout and or GM please take “Mule” in round 20 and get him to sign.

Yes injuries really killed us this year. Sims going down deflated the team and Simmons with the closer role , but where are these great arms we all heard about?

This is no knock on kids but we have about 6-7 guys that shouldn’t even be considered as everyday players here. They are role players at best
Thank God for RJ , and we screwed around with him the first 3-4 weeks either not playing him and letting him battle thru his slow start (aka Rowdy) , or batting him 8th. We had no better options at leadoff or 2 hole and this guy was a proven hitter over his career

We all don’t know what goes on in the clubhouse or off the field , but it’s like this staff is coaching a 10/11 year old team where we keep moms and dads happy by making sure we play their kids. CF is an absolute embarrassment.. SS in year 4 of this staff is an embarrassment, LF isn’t much better ( and all you Mule lovers don’t even chime in )

Again it’s not these kids fault we haven’t recruited over them for them not to be in the lineups everyday.
I haven’t watched all the SEC teams play but name me one team where our SS, Cf, and even LF would start???

In game coaching, Foxhall has done about as bad of job to me as you can do with a staff. With the HC , Taking out Hines in the 5th inning of that game Saturday was the ****ing dumbest shit I have ever seen , prob cost us the game .. not to mention not letting Hunt close the game out Friday.. Hey Foxhall and Lemoins we don’t have a true closer why take that kid out.. ?? Is this job too big for Lemoins? Yes we have a natty but in all fairness that team rode the shoulders on Tanner Allen to win that .. with Bednar and Sims. That wasn’t even close to the sort talented team we have had o er the last 10-15 not even close.

Again the honeymoon is over .. this isnt Fresno State or Costal Carolina where you can slide in a natty and it doesn’t matter what you do years after. With our history , fan support, facilities , and support from the administration baseball gets here this shouldn’t be happening coming off a National Championship .
Underachieving is one thing it happens from time to time , but underachieving with limited talent shouldn’t be happening here..

I'm going to disagree slightly here. I think we put so much into finally getting over the hump with a Natty that the let down after was probably immanent.

Our problem really is that talent wise we were really teed up to win it in '19, '20, and '21 and it took us until '21 to do it. Cohen and Cann recruited the core of the guys, and we are now seeing the impact of rolling thru 4 coaches in 5 seasons - it got our recruiting off and we haven't been able to absorb the talent that left early and the injuries. It sucks. Lemonis is going to have earn his stripes this offseason and do a 2015-6 style rebuild on the fly like Cohen did.

All that said, I'm calling the season yet. Baseball is a freaky game and the next streak can begin at any time - good or bad.

[BayouDawg]

I'm going to disagree slightly here. I think we put so much into finally getting over the hump with a Natty that the let down after was probably immanent.

Our problem really is that talent wise we were really teed up to win it in '19, '20, and '21 and it took us until '21 to do it. Cohen and Cann recruited the core of the guys, and we are now seeing the impact of rolling thru 4 coaches in 5 seasons - it got our recruiting off and we haven't been able to absorb the talent that left early and the injuries. It sucks. Lemonis is going to have earn his stripes this offseason and do a 2015-6 style rebuild on the fly like Cohen did.

All that said, I'm calling the season yet. Baseball is a freaky game and the next streak can begin at any time - good or bad.

This is true. And outside of Arkansas and Tennessee no one in the sec is leaps and bounds better. Hopefully the dawgs have one last push left in them.

[smootness]

This team has serious flaws that no amount of culture or standards will overcome. We are very one-dimensional on offense and very few of our young arms have developed yet, so losing our two most reliable pitchers tanked us.

Any time we win, we say the culture is good and our guys are mentally tough. We lose, and suddenly there is no culture and our guys are mentally weak. In reality, we don't have enough reliable arms or all-around good hitters. That's certainly on the coaches, either in coaching or recruiting, but it doesn't signify some sort of major issue with our program standards or culture. We need to do a better job of identifying talent and developing it.

[BrunswickDawg]

This team has serious flaws that no amount of culture or standards will overcome. We are very one-dimensional on offense and very few of our young arms have developed yet, so losing our two most reliable pitchers tanked us.

Any time we win, we say the culture is good and our guys are mentally tough. We lose, and suddenly there is no culture and our guys are mentally weak. In reality, we don't have enough reliable arms or all-around good hitters. That's certainly on the coaches, either in coaching or recruiting, but it doesn't signify some sort of major issue with our program standards or culture. We need to do a better job of identifying talent and developing it.

I always laugh too when people say "this shouldn't happen to an Elite program" or some such nonsense. Just go back and look at our own history and you see that it does.
CWS in '79 - 1980 we went 31-19, 10-11 and missed post season
CWS in '81 - '82 was 28-23, 11-13, and missed the post season
CWS in '85 - '86 was 34-21, 12-15, and missed the post season
CWS in '07 - '08 saw the bottom drop out and Ron Polk era ends.

[basedog]

I always laugh too when people say "this shouldn't happen to an Elite program" or some such nonsense. Just go back and look at our own history and you see that it does.
CWS in '79 - 1980 we went 31-19, 10-11 and missed post season
CWS in '81 - '82 was 28-23, 11-13, and missed the post season
CWS in '85 - '86 was 34-21, 12-15, and missed the post season
CWS in '07 - '08 saw the bottom drop out and Ron Polk era ends.

Rep all day long Bruns! I saw bad things coming but nothing like this season. 6 starters back and so far, none have showed much improvement except home run power.

[GolfDawg]

https://twitter.com/michael_schlact/status/1513567774353735680?s=21&t=RTQFM-2t3OvczANZ1ImCKw

Great video about loft/exit angle. I?d really like to see this approach executed a little better by our guys.

I?m not saying Gautreau isn?t teaching this- I?m just saying I?m not seeing it executed very well.

[Todd4State]

I always laugh too when people say "this shouldn't happen to an Elite program" or some such nonsense. Just go back and look at our own history and you see that it does.
CWS in '79 - 1980 we went 31-19, 10-11 and missed post season
CWS in '81 - '82 was 28-23, 11-13, and missed the post season
CWS in '85 - '86 was 34-21, 12-15, and missed the post season
CWS in '07 - '08 saw the bottom drop out and Ron Polk era ends.

Could add 2014 to that list as well.

We need to get to a point with our program where we start to avoid that let down season.

[Todd4State]

https://twitter.com/michael_schlact/status/1513567774353735680?s=21&t=RTQFM-2t3OvczANZ1ImCKw

Great video about loft/exit angle. I?d really like to see this approach executed a little better by our guys.

I?m not saying Gautreau isn?t teaching this- I?m just saying I?m not seeing it executed very well.

One of the best hitting videos I've seen lately. Bichette nails it.

And that's why I say what's going on with our hitters is a choice. They can choose with two strikes to either keep trying for the home run and get out or they can protect the plate.

[Todd4State]

This team has serious flaws that no amount of culture or standards will overcome. We are very one-dimensional on offense and very few of our young arms have developed yet, so losing our two most reliable pitchers tanked us.

Any time we win, we say the culture is good and our guys are mentally tough. We lose, and suddenly there is no culture and our guys are mentally weak. In reality, we don't have enough reliable arms or all-around good hitters. That's certainly on the coaches, either in coaching or recruiting, but it doesn't signify some sort of major issue with our program standards or culture. We need to do a better job of identifying talent and developing it.

But that's my point. We got away from recruiting Mangum, TA, Rowdey, Stovall types and those types of players are part of MSU's baseball culture and we need to get back to that to fix our program. And it's not a this year fix. The damage is already done anyway.

[BrunswickDawg]

But that's my point. We got away from recruiting Mangum, TA, Rowdey, Stovall types and those types of players are part of MSU's baseball culture and we need to get back to that to fix our program. And it's not a this year fix. The damage is already done anyway.

I think Kellum is mentally tough. Hines will get there. LoTan is. Cumbest is. I think Pico has the potential. What some of them might not be is as talented as the guys you list. But that can be hard as hell to predict looking at an 18 year old kid (much less a 15 year old sophomore in HS). And you are comparing them to 2 of best players in college baseball over the past decade (Mangum and TA). Ultimately, most of the best teams have "THAT" guy and the rest ride the wave. Having 1 year where we don't have "THAT' guy doesn't mean the program has lost it's culture - it likely means he got drafted and we lost him. Where would we be this year with Jordan McCants at SS, James Woods in the OF and Maddux Bruns on the mound? Or Blaze Jordan and Austin Hendrix?

[Commercecomet24]

I think Kellum is mentally tough. Hines will get there. LoTan is. Cumbest is. I think Pico has the potential. What some of them might not be is as talented as the guys you list. But that can be hard as hell to predict looking at an 18 year old kid (much less a 15 year old sophomore in HS). And you are comparing them to 2 of best players in college baseball over the past decade (Mangum and TA). Ultimately, most of the best teams have "THAT" guy and the rest ride the wave. Having 1 year where we don't have "THAT' guy doesn't mean the program has lost it's culture - it likely means he got drafted and we lost him. Where would we be this year with Jordan McCants at SS, James Woods in the OF and Maddux Bruns on the mound? Or Blaze Jordan and Austin Hendrix?

You always have great takes man. Excellent post and accurate.

[BrunswickDawg]

Could add 2014 to that list as well.

We need to get to a point with our program where we start to avoid that let down season.
I think the occasional down year is a by product of being in the SEC. Arkansas went to the CWS in 2015, and went 26-29 (7-23) in '16. LSU wins in '09 and goes 41-22 (14-16) in '10 and squeaks in to post season, and misses in '11. It's going to happen. We aren't a conference where 1-2 teams dominate for decades. Who thought Auburn would be where they are this season so far? Who thought us and OM would be tied for last in the West? It's why baseball in the SEC is much more fun than football - almost every team has tourney level talent, and every year most teams feel like they have a chance to win. And it's a dog fight every weekend. Give me that over Bama dominating football for 6 of the last 7 decades any day - even if it means we have the occasional down year.

Some people do cocaine, we do college baseball.

[GolfDawg]

I think the occasional down year is a by product of being in the SEC. Arkansas went to the CWS in 2015, and went 26-29 (7-23) in '16. LSU wins in '09 and goes 41-22 (14-16) in '10 and squeaks in to post season, and misses in '11. It's going to happen. We aren't a conference where 1-2 teams dominate for decades. Who thought Auburn would be where they are this season so far? Who thought us and OM would be tied for last in the West? It's why baseball in the SEC is much more fun than football - almost every team has tourney level talent, and every year most teams feel like they have a chance to win. And it's a dog fight every weekend. Give me that over Bama dominating football for 6 of the last 7 decades any day - even if it means we have the occasional down year.

Some people do cocaine, we do college baseball.

Truth right here. Let?s hope college baseball is always so much fun.

[BrunswickDawg]

Truth right here. Let?s hope college baseball is always so much fun.

It's the best sport in college - and I've been hooked on it since the mid '80s. And as MLB continues to screw themselves the college game just gets better. And this season still isn't quite over. We could blow Auburn up this weekend and Ole Miss the following, and get on a roll. Our teams in '11, '12 and '18 did it that way by catching their stride in mid April -you just never know.

[Commercecomet24]

I think the occasional down year is a by product of being in the SEC. Arkansas went to the CWS in 2015, and went 26-29 (7-23) in '16. LSU wins in '09 and goes 41-22 (14-16) in '10 and squeaks in to post season, and misses in '11. It's going to happen. We aren't a conference where 1-2 teams dominate for decades. Who thought Auburn would be where they are this season so far? Who thought us and OM would be tied for last in the West? It's why baseball in the SEC is much more fun than football - almost every team has tourney level talent, and every year most teams feel like they have a chance to win. And it's a dog fight every weekend. Give me that over Bama dominating football for 6 of the last 7 decades any day - even if it means we have the occasional down year.

Some people do cocaine, we do college baseball.

Most accurate post on the board. You nailed it. SEC baseball is by far the most competitive of any sport in the country, bar none. Just look at how many different sec teams make it to the cws each year and how many different teams have won it in the last 15-20 years.

[Ari Gold]

we lost 3 starters and actually upgraded at 2b this year.. once Lemoins kept him in the lineup
We lost a 1st rounder on the mound and Hootie.. that’s basically it

I get it Sims going down was a killer, but if this is “rebuild” what’s next year going to be?.
When we lose LoTan, James, RJ , maybe Hancock, maybe Clark , hopefully Mule

It’s time to call it what it is and recognize the elephant in the room Horrible recruiting .. the Staff better fix it and quickly

[Todd4State]

I think Kellum is mentally tough. Hines will get there. LoTan is. Cumbest is. I think Pico has the potential. What some of them might not be is as talented as the guys you list. But that can be hard as hell to predict looking at an 18 year old kid (much less a 15 year old sophomore in HS). And you are comparing them to 2 of best players in college baseball over the past decade (Mangum and TA). Ultimately, most of the best teams have "THAT" guy and the rest ride the wave. Having 1 year where we don't have "THAT' guy doesn't mean the program has lost it's culture - it likely means he got drafted and we lost him. Where would we be this year with Jordan McCants at SS, James Woods in the OF and Maddux Bruns on the mound? Or Blaze Jordan and Austin Hendrix?

I think Kellum and Hines and those guys are doing what they are supposed to do. Which is hit bombs. All I'm saying is we don't have that table setter that allows us to create offense sometimes. It doesn't have to be someone that is TA or Mangum level. It could be someone like a Jacob Robson who hit about .320 and stole 18 or so bases and could bunt for hits. That's where I'm saying we lost our identity on offense because we've become this Earl Weaver three run home run team that lives and dies with that. Going back to 85 we had Thunder and Lightning- but we also had Dan Van Cleve and Gator Theisen getting on base ahead of them. Later we had Jody Hurst and Cohen. Then Damian Scioneaux and Brooks Bryan, and etc. This team doesn't really have that. And I think that for our MSU culture having a team with guys that can get on base and create followed up by the big home run guys is part of our identity and culture.


I think the occasional down year is a by product of being in the SEC. Arkansas went to the CWS in 2015, and went 26-29 (7-23) in '16. LSU wins in '09 and goes 41-22 (14-16) in '10 and squeaks in to post season, and misses in '11. It's going to happen. We aren't a conference where 1-2 teams dominate for decades. Who thought Auburn would be where they are this season so far? Who thought us and OM would be tied for last in the West? It's why baseball in the SEC is much more fun than football - almost every team has tourney level talent, and every year most teams feel like they have a chance to win. And it's a dog fight every weekend. Give me that over Bama dominating football for 6 of the last 7 decades any day - even if it means we have the occasional down year.

Some people do cocaine, we do college baseball.

Personally I would be fine if we dominated every year. LOL. I get down years happen. I'm not saying we are immune to it but I do want to get to a point where it's not like you said- go to Omaha make a run. Next year is a rebuild or down year which is consistently what our history is outside of 1997-1998 and 2018-2021. I want to get to a point where we truly "don't rebuild- we reload". I think we have the ingredients to be the Alabama or Kentucky of the SEC in baseball. I think once we get to 2024 I think we'll hopefully start to be a little more consistent. Plus the next time we win a Championship it won't be something that has never happened here before and because of that the success is a little more easier to handle from multiple levels from coaches on down.


we lost 3 starters and actually upgraded at 2b this year.. once Lemoins kept him in the lineup
We lost a 1st rounder on the mound and Hootie.. that’s basically it

I get it Sims going down was a killer, but if this is “rebuild” what’s next year going to be?.
When we lose LoTan, James, RJ , maybe Hancock, maybe Clark , hopefully Mule

It’s time to call it what it is and recognize the elephant in the room Horrible recruiting .. the Staff better fix it and quickly

I'm not worried about the elephant in the room right now. We have been pretty successful with the portal with this staff- see Simmons, Dubrule, and now Yeager. It's just an unknown at this point who we will get. It's also an unknown how NIL will affect our juniors that get drafted past round 10. If we start keeping guys like Harding and Stovall for their senior year that will change our program big time as we've never really consistently been able to do that outside of Jake Mangum. Not worth worrying about really until the offseason. But at this point I think they'll make some good decisions and find some solutions in the portal based on their track record.

[Cooterpoot]

$10,000 a year isn't going to keep many kids at State an extra year. We've got to recruit kids that can play. We're back to guys that can hit but can't field or field but can't hit. Big arms without control and quality stuff. That was the Polk 2.0 way. Stop signing transfers that aren't P5 guys too.
As for losing our identity, I'd say we've regained it all across our athletic landscape. We're right back to the Larry Templeton years. We've replaced every coach in a major sport recently. Our athletics are as bad as they've been in a very long time.

[BrunswickDawg]

Personally I would be fine if we dominated every year. LOL. I get down years happen. I'm not saying we are immune to it but I do want to get to a point where it's not like you said- go to Omaha make a run. Next year is a rebuild or down year which is consistently what our history is outside of 1997-1998 and 2018-2021. I want to get to a point where we truly "don't rebuild- we reload". I think we have the ingredients to be the Alabama or Kentucky of the SEC in baseball. I think once we get to 2024 I think we'll hopefully start to be a little more consistent. Plus the next time we win a Championship it won't be something that has never happened here before and because of that the success is a little more easier to handle from multiple levels from coaches on down.
.

That's just it, we didn't just go to Omaha and make run. Look at what we have done since missing the post season in 2015. Won the SEC in 2016, won 5 straight regionals, and made 3 straight CWS culminating in a win. If '20 hadn't been cancelled, you could likely add to each of those numbers. If we hadn't been paired with the eventual runners up in '16 & '17 we likely make the CWS those years too. That strength over a 6 year period is re-loading. And within that streak, we had a "down" year in '18 that turned into a miracle run.

You can even argue that since 2011 we've had one of our strongest runs ever - making post season 9 of 10 full seasons, winning 8 regionals, making 4 CWS, making two championship series appearances, winning 1 NC, 1 SEC T, and 1 SEC regular season title. All while playing in the toughest conference in the country. Since 2011, the SEC has produced 28 CWS participants in that period (almost 3 per year), with 12 championship series teams, and 4 teams have won a total of 5 CWS.

I'm just not unsatisfied with that level of winning - and despite the way this season has progressed I don't see us not continuing it. There is a tremendous amount of pressure on these guys to repeat - and I think that has gotten to them more than anything. It's why repeating as a champion in college or the pros is so difficult.

[Commercecomet24]

That's just it, we didn't just go to Omaha and make run. Look at what we have done since missing the post season in 2015. Won the SEC in 2016, won 5 straight regionals, and made 3 straight CWS culminating in a win. If '20 hadn't been cancelled, you could likely add to each of those numbers. If we hadn't been paired with the eventual runners up in '16 & '17 we likely make the CWS those years too. That strength over a 6 year period is re-loading. And within that streak, we had a "down" year in '18 that turned into a miracle run.

You can even argue that since 2011 we've had one of our strongest runs ever - making post season 9 of 10 full seasons, winning 8 regionals, making 4 CWS, making two championship series appearances, winning 1 NC, 1 SEC T, and 1 SEC regular season title. All while playing in the toughest conference in the country. Since 2011, the SEC has produced 28 CWS participants in that period (almost 3 per year), with 12 championship series teams, and 4 teams have won a total of 5 CWS.

I'm just not unsatisfied with that level of winning - and despite the way this season has progressed I don't see us not continuing it. There is a tremendous amount of pressure on these guys to repeat - and I think that has gotten to them more than anything. It's why repeating as a champion in college or the pros is so difficult.

I can't give you anymore rep. Nailed it.

[Cooterpoot]

There's no excuse in the world for State EVER missing a regional. There's not even an argument to be made. Had we sufficiently recruited and developed, we wouldn't be here.

[Coach34]

There's no excuse in the world for State EVER missing a regional. There's not even an argument to be made. Had we sufficiently recruited and developed, we wouldn't be here.

This

An absolute down year is a 3 seed in a Regional. This team has work to do to make that happen.

[sleepy dawg]

$10,000 a year isn't going to keep many kids at State an extra year. We've got to recruit kids that can play. We're back to guys that can hit but can't field or field but can't hit. Big arms without control and quality stuff. That was the Polk 2.0 way. Stop signing transfers that aren't P5 guys too.
As for losing our identity, I'd say we've regained it all across our athletic landscape. We're right back to the Larry Templeton years. We've replaced every coach in a major sport recently. Our athletics are as bad as they've been in a very long time.

What do you mean by "aren't P5 guys", b/c Yeager is probably our best player right now and he came from a non-P5 school.

[Todd4State]

$10,000 a year isn't going to keep many kids at State an extra year. We've got to recruit kids that can play. We're back to guys that can hit but can't field or field but can't hit. Big arms without control and quality stuff. That was the Polk 2.0 way. Stop signing transfers that aren't P5 guys too.
As for losing our identity, I'd say we've regained it all across our athletic landscape. We're right back to the Larry Templeton years. We've replaced every coach in a major sport recently. Our athletics are as bad as they've been in a very long time.

No 10K isn't. But 50K while knowing that they can be a senior sign and then get another bonus on top of having their school paid is a good deal for players in that situation.

[Todd4State]

That's just it, we didn't just go to Omaha and make run. Look at what we have done since missing the post season in 2015. Won the SEC in 2016, won 5 straight regionals, and made 3 straight CWS culminating in a win. If '20 hadn't been cancelled, you could likely add to each of those numbers. If we hadn't been paired with the eventual runners up in '16 & '17 we likely make the CWS those years too. That strength over a 6 year period is re-loading. And within that streak, we had a "down" year in '18 that turned into a miracle run.

You can even argue that since 2011 we've had one of our strongest runs ever - making post season 9 of 10 full seasons, winning 8 regionals, making 4 CWS, making two championship series appearances, winning 1 NC, 1 SEC T, and 1 SEC regular season title. All while playing in the toughest conference in the country. Since 2011, the SEC has produced 28 CWS participants in that period (almost 3 per year), with 12 championship series teams, and 4 teams have won a total of 5 CWS.

I'm just not unsatisfied with that level of winning - and despite the way this season has progressed I don't see us not continuing it. There is a tremendous amount of pressure on these guys to repeat - and I think that has gotten to them more than anything. It's why repeating as a champion in college or the pros is so difficult.

That's fair. But the difference to me between this team and those other teams is how those teams were built vs this one. Having a couple of table setters would help the offense out tremendously and help offset the pitching injuries.

[BrunswickDawg]

That's fair. But the difference to me between this team and those other teams is how those teams were built vs this one. Having a couple of table setters would help the offense out tremendously and help offset the pitching injuries.

That's why I truly see this year as the penance for having rolled thru 4 coaches in 4 seasons between 2016-2019 - that instability had a cost, but we had already recruited well enough far enough out that that carried us. That combined with draft losses and with I think Lemo needing to learn how to recruit for MSU led to this.