why when the game is on the line

[tcdog70]

and they put the shift on--would we not just bunt down the third base line. It blows my mind. we bunt to sacrifice but not to beat the shift.

[CadaverDawg]

and they put the shift on--would we not just bunt down the third base line. It blows my mind. we bunt to sacrifice but not to beat the shift.

Easier said than done. MSU teams of the past have struggled getting a sac bunt down, much less aiming one where you want it to go

[FISHDAWG]

and they put the shift on--would we not just bunt down the third base line. It blows my mind. we bunt to sacrifice but not to beat the shift.

Leggett has done it twice in 3 weeks ... although I can't remember if the shift was on but the infield was deep and he laid down 2 beauties that both went for hits

[parabrave]

It's not even done at the next levels.

[SilentSteel16]

Because it takes away one of your bigger bats and coaches aren’t willing to give up the potential of what the hitter can do. Notice the shift is not done to Legget, or Forsythe. The other team is willing to give the power hitters a bunt single if it guarantees not to give up a HR. You are trying to take the bat out of the hitters hands by doing that.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Leggett has done it twice in 3 weeks ... although I can't remember if the shift was on but the infield was deep and he laid down 2 beauties that both went for hits

That is because Leggett is a ball player and does what needs to be done. Like this guy more and more every day.

[tcdog70]

Easier said than done. MSU teams of the past have struggled getting a sac bunt down, much less aiming one where you want it to go

so lets just continue with 6 hits a game. Cam James 0 for the 3 games. You can't tell Me he couldn't try and Bunt and if he fails then hit away.Brad-was 0 for three games. we need base runners and hitters that advance to runners. If you can't bunt the go oppo--Shit do something beside hit into the shift.

[CadaverDawg]

so lets just continue with 6 hits a game. Cam James 0 for the 3 games. You can't tell Me he couldn't try and Bunt and if he fails then hit away.Brad-was 0 for three games. we need base runners and hitters that advance to runners. If you can't bunt the go oppo--Shit do something beside hit into the shift.

Oh I'm all for it if we try it, I was joking about how we could rarely execute a sac bunt under Cohen half the time

[Jarius]

It really does blow my mind that kids can’t bunt today. All you are doing is playing catch with the bat. I was a very average juco player but damn I could lay down a sac bunt at any time I was asked to do so. I assume the coaches today just don’t practice it very much because it’s not a very big part of the game with analytics. Idk. Rant over.

[CadaverDawg]

It really does blow my mind that kids can’t bunt today. All you are doing is playing catch with the bat. I was a very average juco player but damn I could lay down a sac bunt at any time I was asked to do so. I assume the coaches today just don’t practice it very much because it’s not a very big part of the game with analytics. Idk. Rant over.

I agree. We used to start every BP session with bunting. Everyone practiced it. Clearly it's an afterthought these days

[FISHDAWG]

I agree. We used to start every BP session with bunting. Everyone practiced it. Clearly it's an afterthought these days

same here ... and the thing is (in my opinion anyway) it's easier to bunt than to get a swinging hit.

[Coach34]

We all know why-

A) Coaches bunt alot less due to analytics
B) Most players hate to bunt

You can see alot of them when asked to bunt either take a strike and hope the bunt will get called off- or they make a halfass attempt at it to foul it off and then hope the bunt gets called off. I batted 4-hole in HS and 6 hole in college so I was asked to bunt but a couple of times. And I did the same shit these guys do in hopes the bunt gets called off.

Now I will say that if I had the shift on me like these guys do- I would have made them stop it. I had no problems driving the ball the opposite way and I certainly would have learned to push bunt the ball toward 2nd to get it by the pitcher for a hit. We are halfway thru the season and have guys with only 10, 11, or 12 extra base hit....they damn sure arent too good to bunt against the shift. Bunting runners on to extend innings and pitch counts is a no-brainer.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Because it takes away one of your bigger bats and coaches aren’t willing to give up the potential of what the hitter can do. Notice the shift is not done to Legget, or Forsythe. The other team is willing to give the power hitters a bunt single if it guarantees not to give up a HR. You are trying to take the bat out of the hitters hands by doing that.

The shift is generally done on Left-Handed Power Hitters. That is the most effective scenario to target. From a pay-off perspective, the LH Power Hitter is looking for HR and X-base hit. Bunting or going the other-way is more costly to their offensive value than other guys.

In the chart below (MLB Stats not College Stats), Green means better for the defense. Standard Shift is 3B to SS, SS to Middle, and 2B to Short Right. Strategic is where individual hitter scatter is optimized. One tangential stat shows that Lefty Batting Average for Balls Put in Play goes from 248 to 202 in MLB.

Note how Ks and Batting Average greatly favor the defense. But also note that Walks go up for many scenarios.

https://i0.wp.com/batflipsandnerds.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/image.png?w=597&ssl=1

[The Federalist Engineer]

We all know why-

A) Coaches bunt alot less due to analytics
B) Most players hate to bunt

You can see alot of them when asked to bunt either take a strike and hope the bunt will get called off- or they make a halfass attempt at it to foul it off and then hope the bunt gets called off. I batted 4-hole in HS and 6 hole in college so I was asked to bunt but a couple of times. And I did the same shit these guys do in hopes the bunt gets called off.

Now I will say that if I had the shift on me like these guys do- I would have made them stop it. I had no problems driving the ball the opposite way and I certainly would have learned to push bunt the ball toward 2nd to get it by the pitcher for a hit. We are halfway thru the season and have guys with only 10, 11, or 12 extra base hit....they damn sure arent too good to bunt against the shift. Bunting runners on to extend innings and pitch counts is a no-brainer.

Hey coach, are you Right-Handed or Left-Handed?

I asked a few guys that played in the PAC-10 as collegiates, they said they would and could adjust, but all were Right-Handed.

Seems that lefties must have a different approach

[SilentSteel16]

The shift is done entirely for the defense. It doesn’t matter if it is a righty or lefty. What matters is hitter tendencies. Hitters like Cumbest and Clark are primarily pull only hitters. So by shifting defense to pull only side and pitching inside puts your defense in a better position. OR you do it and make a big deal about it to get in the hitters head and make them start thinking of bunting or slapping it the other way. If they do that then the defense is willing to give up a weak grounder or bunt to non pull side and basically taking the bat out of the power hitters hands.

A good hitter can hit to all fields, it is not a righty or lefty deal. Tony Gwynn was the best at it but he was just a pure hitter. Closest thing we have to a pure hitter is Hancock but it also appears that he is more of a defensive hitter than aggressive. Not a slight on him at all but it takes a special kind of player to be able to attack the defense with aggressive swings to all fields. Those players are extremely rare.

[tcdog70]

We all know why-

A) Coaches bunt alot less due to analytics
B) Most players hate to bunt

You can see alot of them when asked to bunt either take a strike and hope the bunt will get called off- or they make a halfass attempt at it to foul it off and then hope the bunt gets called off. I batted 4-hole in HS and 6 hole in college so I was asked to bunt but a couple of times. And I did the same shit these guys do in hopes the bunt gets called off.

Now I will say that if I had the shift on me like these guys do- I would have made them stop it. I had no problems driving the ball the opposite way and I certainly would have learned to push bunt the ball toward 2nd to get it by the pitcher for a hit. We are halfway thru the season and have guys with only 10, 11, or 12 extra base hit....they damn sure arent too good to bunt against the shift. Bunting runners on to extend innings and pitch counts is a no-brainer.

if you go 0 for 10--a bunt single might look pretty damn skippy. I just can't get it through my mind that a player would not laugh his ass off seeing a shift. Back in my day we would have bunted their ass silly and took the W to the house. or just slapped it oppo.

[OLJWales]

The highest level I played was a summer at Brandon High and a coach who was a former STATE Pitcher would throw pretty hard from about the 1/2 mark between the mound and home plate making us bunt. Anybody else ever hafta endure that kinda stuff?

[Irondawg]

I watched Anthony Rizzo in a game last year when he was still with the Cubs bunt down the 3rd base line twice in a row and laughed all the way to first.

Bases were empty both time so the value play was getting someone on easily.

[Coach34]

Hey coach, are you Right-Handed or Left-Handed?

I asked a few guys that played in the PAC-10 as collegiates, they said they would and could adjust, but all were Right-Handed.

Seems that lefties must have a different approach

Righty

[confucius say]

Hey coach, are you Right-Handed or Left-Handed?

I asked a few guys that played in the PAC-10 as collegiates, they said they would and could adjust, but all were Right-Handed.

Seems that lefties must have a different approach

Nobody shifted TA.

We hit .171 this weekend bc we took selfish swings all weekend. Everything was pull side trying to hit bombs. Either selfish or horribly coached approach. We're hitting .263 as a team. 13th in the league.

We finally hit three balls hard up the middle in the 12th Sunday (Yeager, Hancock, LT) and scored 2 runs. Up the middle approach still wins games. Can't pull everything against great pitching like ark has.

[EdwardDrayton]

We all know why-

A) Coaches bunt alot less due to analytics
B) Most players hate to bunt

You can see alot of them when asked to bunt either take a strike and hope the bunt will get called off- or they make a halfass attempt at it to foul it off and then hope the bunt gets called off. I batted 4-hole in HS and 6 hole in college so I was asked to bunt but a couple of times. And I did the same shit these guys do in hopes the bunt gets called off.

Now I will say that if I had the shift on me like these guys do- I would have made them stop it. I had no problems driving the ball the opposite way and I certainly would have learned to push bunt the ball toward 2nd to get it by the pitcher for a hit. We are halfway thru the season and have guys with only 10, 11, or 12 extra base hit....they damn sure arent too good to bunt against the shift. Bunting runners on to extend innings and pitch counts is a no-brainer.

This ^^^^^

[The Federalist Engineer]

Nobody shifted TA.

We hit .171 this weekend bc we took selfish swings all weekend. Everything was pull side trying to hit bombs. Either selfish or horribly coached approach. We're hitting .263 as a team. 13th in the league.

We finally hit three balls hard up the middle in the 12th Sunday (Yeager, Hancock, LT) and scored 2 runs. Up the middle approach still wins games. Can't pull everything against great pitching like ark has.

Like I said, the Left Handed Pull Power Hitter is the primary target player (Ryan Howard types). In the diagram, the benefits peak at L/L for the committed pull player.

According to Polk on the Radio, Arkansas had extreme shifts on our power Lefties this weekend. Arkansas was expecting no adjustment, we must have lots of Ryan Howards in 2022. TA was very dynamic and special, to me the MSU GOAT hitter.

In MLB, I personally saw Freddie Freeman do swinging bunts on St Louis. Dump lazy singles were a SS was normally located. The game context for FF was that ATL was down many runs, baserunners were needed, so he took the free bases. He has this to say about shifts in general.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUfkptGl1LQ

[Ranchdawg]

The highest level I played was a summer at Brandon High and a coach who was a former STATE Pitcher would throw pretty hard from about the 1/2 mark between the mound and home plate making us bunt. Anybody else ever hafta endure that kinda stuff?

Was your coach Regan? If so he and I graduated high school together and were really good friends. You obviously didn?t get to see him pitch in college but he had wicked curve ball and pitched in the college World Series

[OLJWales]

Was your coach Regan? If so he and I graduated high school together and were really good friends. You obviously didn?t get to see him pitch in college but he had wicked curve ball and pitched in the college World Series

That may have been him; name rings a bell. It was summer of '81.

[R2Dawg]

That is because Leggett is a ball player and does what needs to be done. Like this guy more and more every day.

I'm with you on him. He just makes plays. Kinda like Garcia on MBB team. If you need a play, he will go make one.

[Todd4State]

The short answer is some players are hard headed and they also don't work on it enough.

[IMissJack]

Since MLB is doing away with the shift, will NCAA follow?

[OLJWales]

Since MLB is doing away with the shift, will NCAA follow?

Interesting. Hadn't watched much MLB in a coupla decades and honestly can not adequately explain why my MLB & NFL Interest wained. I didn't even know the NL took up DH till I heard about the other day here in the Pujols thread.

But is that for Realz? MLB moving away from the shift?

[IMissJack]

Interesting. Hadn't watched much MLB in a coupla decades and honestly can not adequately explain why my MLB & NFL Interest wained. I didn't even know the NL took up DH till I heard about the other day here in the Pujols thread.

But is that for Realz? MLB moving away from the shift?

The MLBPA agreed to it, I think to start in 2023