Freese - Bourjos trade

[Will James]

The mocking of the Angels continues. Todd must be doubly happy. What a joke of an organization these days.

[messageboardsuperhero]

When is Mike Trout going to dump their asses? I'm ready to see him play meaningful games in October for a contender.

[missouridawg]

While the Cardinals definitely got a great piece in Bourjos... it will indirectly make 3B and 2B better defensively, as well.

But let's not forget the black hole that was 3B last year for the Angels. They can slide Trout to CF and not fall very much in defense and Freese gives them an adequate 3B, assuming the health.

I like the trade for the Cardinals, but the Angels didn't get fleeced in this, in my opinion.

[Dawg61]

What will the Cards do with Taveras and Jay now?

[dawgs]

great trade by the cards. freese isn't all that great (i know the cards fans love him, but he's not), and he's 4 years older the bourjos. bourjos could be one of the games best leadoff hitters with full time ABs. i'd say his 2011 number would be the baseline for expectations and go up from there.

[dawgs]

What will the Cards do with Taveras and Jay now?

well jon jay sucks. he might start for a month or so while they wait to start taveras' clock, but if taveras has a killer spring, i would expect him to win the job (and cards fans should want him to take the job, otherwise i'd be worried about his development stalling).

[Dawg61]

Every time I watch Jay he is running down fly balls all over centerfield. He needs to fix the loop in his swing but I certainly wouldn't throw him to the curb just yet. Send him to the Giants. He's way better than Gregor Blanco.

[dawgs]

in 3 out of his 4 seasons in the bigs, he's had a negative fielding rating according to fangraphs. that means he's been below average. and his only season with a positive fielding rating was just barely above average. i know defensive metrics aren't perfect, but rarely do they say someone is consistently awful when they are actually consistently good.

[Will James]

Bourjos isn't my leadoff hitter in STL (Carpenter is perfect there) but he is a solid bat with plus defense.

Jay will be a starter somewhere this year.

[ShotgunDawg]

I think the Angels are getting a little bit of a bad rap in this trade. Bourjos is the better player, and I think Randal Grichuk can be a .245 with 20 type player. So in that sense the Cardinals got the better talents in the trade.

However, Bourjos has not yet shown the ability to stay healthy for a season, and I still question whether Bourjos will actually hit enough to be an everyday CF on a championship caliber team. His stats indicate that he should be able to hit enough, but it is tough to apply career stats to a guy that really hasn't been an everyday player. Every day players get over-exposed in ways that part-time players don't.

Furthermore, the Angels really did need a 3rd baseman, and, with Trout and Hamilton, really had little use for Bourjos. Furthermore, the Angels know Peter Bourjos, who isn't a completely known quantity yet, better than anyone else.

The Cardinals got the better player(s) in this trade, but I just don't think the Angels got fleeced like some are saying. Bourjos' future offensive performance is just still to big of a question mark to say this is a slam dunk.

[Todd4State]

The mocking of the Angels continues. Todd must be doubly happy. What a joke of an organization these days.

Couldn't have said it better myself. The Angels are the guy in high school that thinks he's cool, but he just doesn't get it. I'd hate to be their GM right now and for the next five years.

[Todd4State]

When is Mike Trout going to dump their asses? I'm ready to see him play meaningful games in October for a contender.

Probably in about four years when his agent is going to tell the Angels that he wants 50 million a year since they are paying Albert 25 million to hit .250 and spend half the season on the DL.

[Todd4State]

What will the Cards do with Taveras and Jay now?

Taveras obviously has a ton of upside- but he also has zero experience. He was supposed to have come up last year, but unfortunately he got hurt- which really hurt the Cardinals in the World Series. As of now- Taveras will play right field and center field along with Craig and Bourjos. I am expecting another move potentially for a shortstop and Matt Adams could be involved in that. That would put Craig at first and Taveras in right. Jon Jay is essentially a fourth outfielder/pinch hit/pinch runner at this point. Unless Shane Robinson beats him out. Jay being released in spring training wouldn't shock me.

If Taveras does as well as advertised- then Bourjos becomes the fourth outfielder.

[Todd4State]

Every time I watch Jay he is running down fly balls all over centerfield. He needs to fix the loop in his swing but I certainly wouldn't throw him to the curb just yet. Send him to the Giants. He's way better than Gregor Blanco.

Did you watch the NLCS where he let at least two balls drop in- one time he was just staring at 36 year old Carlos Beltran while the ball fell in for a hit between them? That doesn't go down as an error- but in reality it's a mistake even if it's not scored that way. When Beltran threw out Mark Ellis in the NLCS- he basically told Jay to get the hell out of the way while he gunned down Ellis. And Beltran's not a selfish player at all- he just knew that Jay would f--- it up. But that was really Jay's ball.

He also failed to lay down some bunts, etc.

[Todd4State]

I think the Angels are getting a little bit of a bad rap in this trade. Bourjos is the better player, and I think Randal Grichuk can be a .245 with 20 type player. So in that sense the Cardinals got the better talents in the trade.

However, Bourjos has not yet shown the ability to stay healthy for a season, and I still question whether Bourjos will actually hit enough to be an everyday CF on a championship caliber team. His stats indicate that he should be able to hit enough, but it is tough to apply career stats to a guy that really hasn't been an everyday player. Every day players get over-exposed in ways that part-time players don't.

Furthermore, the Angels really did need a 3rd baseman, and, with Trout and Hamilton, really had little use for Bourjos. Furthermore, the Angels know Peter Bourjos, who isn't a completely known quantity yet, better than anyone else.

The Cardinals got the better player(s) in this trade, but I just don't think the Angels got fleeced like some are saying. Bourjos' future offensive performance is just still to big of a question mark to say this is a slam dunk.

Freese also has a history of alcoholism. I strongly suspect that affected his performance this year. I hope he turns it around. But the Cardinals don't put up with much usually- heck, they traded Keith Hernandez for Neil Allen because he was using too much cocaine and they thought the FBI was about to nail him. I have no idea how Hernandez got out of that.

Maybe being around Josh Hamilton will help Freese.

Grichuk doesn't excite me at all. Not with Piscotty in the system and Craig and Holliday locked into deals for a little while. But you're not going to get much back for Fernando Salas.

Speaking of fleecing- the Angels wanted Shelby Miller for Erick Aybar in this trade. But I guess they actually came down from what they wanted for Aybar in July- which was Wacha and Carlos Martinez for Aybar. I'm glad that trade didn't happen.

[ShotgunDawg]

Freese also has a history of alcoholism. I strongly suspect that affected his performance this year. I hope he turns it around. But the Cardinals don't put up with much usually- heck, they traded Keith Hernandez for Neil Allen because he was using too much cocaine and they thought the FBI was about to nail him. I have no idea how Hernandez got out of that.

Maybe being around Josh Hamilton will help Freese.

Grichuk doesn't excite me at all. Not with Piscotty in the system and Craig and Holliday locked into deals for a little while. But you're not going to get much back for Fernando Salas.

Speaking of fleecing- the Angels wanted Shelby Miller for Erick Aybar in this trade. But I guess they actually came down from what they wanted for Aybar in July- which was Wacha and Carlos Martinez for Aybar. I'm glad that trade didn't happen.

No doubt. I did't realize Freese had alcohol problems.

Grichuk is a decent get. I don't love him, but he can impact the baseball. If things click, you could have something because he does have power. Very different player than Piscotty. Piscotty is more of a pure hitter that your hoping develops the strength to impact the baseball on a consistent basis, while Grichuk is just the opposite.

Considering that Grichuk is kinda of free piece in this deal, you can kinda look at him as insurance for Piscotty. Throw both at the wall and see which one sticks.

[Todd4State]

No doubt. I did't realize Freese had alcohol problems.

Grichuk is a decent get. I don't love him, but he can impact the baseball. If things click, you could have something because he does have power. Very different player than Piscotty. Piscotty is more of a pure hitter that your hoping develops the strength to impact the baseball on a consistent basis, while Grichuk is just the opposite.

Considering that Grichuk is kinda of free piece in this deal, you can kinda look at him as insurance for Piscotty. Throw both at the wall and see which one sticks.

I did some more research or Grichuck and I feel a little bit better about him now. Actually, I'm shocked that the Angels gave him up for Salas. Grichuck won a minor league defensive award, was named one of the top 20 prospects in the Texas League and hit 20+ home runs and can play CF or RF. It sounds like he just needs to work on his swing and his plate discipline a little bit.

Salas is a AAAA pitcher for all intents and purposes.

I'm not sure that he's insurance for Piscotty- but now the Cardinals have a glut of outfield prospects- Taveras, Piscotty, James Ramsey, and now Grichuk. Someone is about to get traded.

[ShotgunDawg]

I did some more research or Grichuck and I feel a little bit better about him now. Actually, I'm shocked that the Angels gave him up for Salas. Grichuck won a minor league defensive award, was named one of the top 20 prospects in the Texas League and hit 20+ home runs and can play CF or RF. It sounds like he just needs to work on his swing and his plate discipline a little bit.

Salas is a AAAA pitcher for all intents and purposes.

I'm not sure that he's insurance for Piscotty- but now the Cardinals have a glut of outfield prospects- Taveras, Piscotty, James Ramsey, and now Grichuk. Someone is about to get traded.

Yes, Grichuk does have some potential, but the hitting ability, not power, is questionable. He can't play CF. Definite corner OF/1B/DH for me.

Just saying that he offers another opportunity/chance to click if Piscotty doesn't pan out.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

Yes, Grichuk does have some potential, but the hitting ability, not power, is questionable. He can't play CF. Definite corner OF/1B/DH for me.

Just saying that he offers another opportunity/chance to click if Piscotty doesn't pan out.

MLB Network was just talking about how Grichuk had some developmental problems and they followed it up by saying he went to the best place for developing players.

[ShotgunDawg]

MLB Network was just talking about how Grichuk had some developmental problems and they followed it up by saying he went to the best place for developing players.

A change of scenery helps many players