Wellllllll, we proved who we are tonight

[Coach34]

We are NIT bound and will underachieve. Howland will "retire" at the end of the season.

Will be interesting to see where this program goes from here as we head into April

[maroonmania]

We are a lifeless basketball program because our HC is lifeless who coaches our team to play a boring, lifeless brand of basketball. Our BB program has potential but it will never go anywhere with Howland. Yes, we could hire worse if we get a guy like a Rick Ray again who can't recruit but we have to at least TRY to hire better.

[tcdog70]

We are the worst team in basketball in the last 5 minutes of the game. Why can we not just give Brooks the Ball. He was money tonight

[Coach34]

We are the worst team in basketball in the last 5 minutes of the game. Why can we not just give Brooks the Ball. He was money tonight

We did a terrible job of getting the ball to Brooks or doing things to get Molinar shots. Terrible plan offensively

[maroonmania]

We did a terrible job of getting the ball to Brooks or doing things to get Molinar shots. Terrible plan offensively

Lather, rinse, repeat.

[Commercecomet24]

We are NIT bound and will underachieve. Howland will "retire" at the end of the season.

Will be interesting to see where this program goes from here as we head into April

Yep same ole story with Ben. I'm truly hoping he retires. Who knows if we can do better but we gotta try something this is boring and frustrating as heck to watch year after year.

[trob115]

Paging Sean Miller, Paging Sean Miller.

[Cooterpoot]

John Cohen doesn't have the balls to hire anything but another retread or outside the box nobody. Nothings going to change.
He should save the renovation money and put it toward football if that's what he's going to do again.

[HoopsDawg]

We did a terrible job of getting the ball to Brooks or doing things to get Molinar shots. Terrible plan offensively

UT started face guarding Molinar the last 4:30 of the game and took him out. Very nice coaching move by Barnes. We had no counter.

[Coach34]

UT started face guarding Molinar the last 4:30 of the game and took him out. Very nice coaching move by Barnes. We had no counter.

Molinar had 2 shots the first 15 mins of the game. Enough said

[Bothrops]

I think the Hump renovation starts this offseason??

[basedog]

We were so "out of control" the last 5 minutes. Panic set in and we fell apart, we made no adjustments and just played street ball.

Yes, it is time Ben resigns, good guy who can't get us "over the hump".

[Leeshouldveflanked]

John Cohen doesn't have the balls to hire anything but another retread or outside the box nobody. Nothings going to change.
He should save the renovation money and put it toward football if that's what he's going to do again.
^^^^This^^^^ Increase our Football budget and staff. Bowl in South Endzone with condo/convention center/Luxury suites. Chairback the lower level.
Re-seat basketball putting the students on the floor 3/4 around the court like Auburn, Duke, etc.
For Basketball hire a good young mid major coach that runs a exciting up tempo offense. Don?t waste money on a coach who?s best days are behind him.

[Saltydog]

We've actually known who are for a while now! There were a few here that just didn't want to admit it!

[calidawg]

Don't waste any emotional energy on our basketball program. It is totally broken. There are so many issues beyond just a coach. Pains me to say this because I can count on one hand how many home games I missed from 2002 to 2012.

it will take a driven visionary to fix it and that certainly isn't Cohen.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

We are going to win the NIT. I can just feel it.

[confucius say]

Sup Greg Marshall

[EdwardDrayton]

We've actually known who are for a while now! There were a few here that just didn't want to admit it!

We harbored concerns but were hopeful things would get worked out and it would all come together. Just didn?t happen. Very disappointing game and season. Ben/John have been allowed plenty of time to get it done but now it?s time for Keenum to make changes.

[DownwardDawg]

We've actually known who are for a while now! There were a few here that just didn't want to admit it!

Yeah. I barely pay attention anymore to that sport but I always want State to win at everything. I was surprised folks expected anything other than what is happening.

[Matt3467]

I don't know how anyone can watch MSU basketball. I checked out after the Renardo Sidney fiasco and it's only gotten worse. It's the most boring and uninspired sports team we field at State.

[Liverpooldawg]

Just fire the coach, that always works.

[EdwardDrayton]

Just fire the coach, that always works.

Doesn?t always work but sometimes it?s warranted. As in now.

[deltadawg63]

We know that D1 and especially Power 5/FBS football are changing strategically, culturally and financially fast as i can type.

It brings to thought what is our true strategy going forward? Can we compete as we want to expect at the sports that are important to us?

How do we best allocate our resources? What now and how much are our resources?

How much debt service remains on the football and baseball stadium projects and what part of the budget are those?

I think the fanbase understanding more of this would bring more transparency to what we are truly capable of emphasizing and what we are not?

The organized labor and "university employee" status debate could change strategy greatly!

[Commercecomet24]

Doesn?t always work but sometimes it?s warranted. As in now.

Yeah it's time for ben to hang em up. Every game plays out the same way. We start slow get behind, catch up a little by the half, play ok to begin the second half and play like crap with to's and scoreless droughts the last 5-7 minutes of the game. Lather, rinse, repeat. You can't tell one game from the next with us because they're all just alike, replays.

[HoopsDawg]

Amazing how much better we would be with another good guard though. Howland and staff lost these games in the transfer portal.

[parabrave]

We are the worst team in basketball in the last 5 minutes of the game. Why can we not just give Brooks the Ball. He was money tonight

Leadership and coaching. Which there is none. We don't have a Jimmy Chitwood/

https://youtu.be/TdT_PiRLsaI

[Commercecomet24]

Leadership and coaching. Which there is none. We don't have a Jimmy Chitwood/

https://youtu.be/TdT_PiRLsaI

Yeah it's kinda sad. We don't have the Jamont Gordons, Timmy Bowers, Derrick Zimmermans, Darryl Wilsons, etc. Howlands brought in some talent but we just haven't seemed to find those type players who lead and know how to get it done. We're more like watching an aau team. 5 individuals no team concept.

[Cooterpoot]

Just fire the coach, that always works.

Well, he's retiring anyway, so there's that.

[confucius say]

After his first two years building from the Rick ray debacle, Ben has had us in the tournament or the NIT five years in a row. Are we sure we are a better program than that?

And that's playing in a Sunday school environment every home game where our fans don't show up and our administration does nothing to encourage students to show up.

[parabrave]

Yeah it's kinda sad. We don't have the Jamont Gordons, Timmy Bowers, Derrick Zimmermans, Darryl Wilsons, etc. Howlands brought in some talent but we just haven't seemed to find those type players who lead and know how to get it done. We're more like watching an aau team. 5 individuals no team concept.

This and it's been that way since Jamont last year.

[HoopsDawg]

After his first two years building from the Rick ray debacle, Ben has had us in the tournament or the NIT five years in a row. Are we sure we are a better program than that?

And that's playing in a Sunday school environment every home game where our fans don't show up and our administration does nothing to encourage students to show up.

No, we are definitely not a better program than that.

[Commercecomet24]

After his first two years building from the Rick ray debacle, Ben has had us in the tournament or the NIT five years in a row. Are we sure we are a better program than that?

And that's playing in a Sunday school environment every home game where our fans don't show up and our administration does nothing to encourage students to show up.

Maybe true, but it's obvious it's a time for a change. Ben looks tired, the team looks tired, the whole program looks lifeless and depressed. It's time and I believe Ben knows it as well.

[Lord McBuckethead]

We are going to win the NIT. I can just feel it.

Not if the other team applies either a full court press or at a minimum guards us down the court. I swear, there is literally zero reasons why Starkville High School couldn't hold us in check with those two simple easy defensive adjustments/schemes.
Simple and 100% effective against our team and has been for 7 years.

[OLJWales]

We are going to win the NIT. I can just feel it.

Was this in jest?

[R2Dawg]

We did a terrible job of getting the ball to Brooks or doing things to get Molinar shots. Terrible plan offensively

Totally agree. Now I'll make a comment that will go viral and probably lead to getting thread locked.

We have the same major coaching stuck in mud mentality also in football with Leach. Neither adjust in game, neither adjust to our skill or opponents weakness. Both just do what we do and we seek to execute perfectly to win. Both have won before but are basically washed up by the game today.

Have fun defending how Leach is any different than Howland?

[confucius say]

Maybe true, but it's obvious it's a time for a change. Ben looks tired, the team looks tired, the whole program looks lifeless and depressed. It's time and I believe Ben knows it as well.

I agree. I'm just not sure our administration is not more to blame than howland. We made a conscious decision to kill attendance and the environment, which makes it hard to win.

[R2Dawg]

Amazing how much better we would be with another good guard though. Howland and staff lost these games in the transfer portal.

Yeah, the guard he got in the portal is DJ which don't fit the need.

[OLJWales]

Totally agree. Now I'll make a comment that will go viral and probably lead to getting thread locked.

We have the same major coaching stuck in mud mentality also in football with Leach. Neither adjust in game, neither adjust to our skill or opponents weakness. Both just do what we do and we seek to execute perfectly to win. Both have won before but are basically washed up by the game today.

Have fun defending how Leach is any different than Howland?

At least Leach runs a Bi-Polar Pogram that has its Manic Moments of Big Wins while Howland's Program is 100% Mentally Depressed.

[HoopsDawg]

Totally agree. Now I'll make a comment that will go viral and probably lead to getting thread locked.

We have the same major coaching stuck in mud mentality also in football with Leach. Neither adjust in game, neither adjust to our skill or opponents weakness. Both just do what we do and we seek to execute perfectly to win. Both have won before but are basically washed up by the game today.

Have fun defending how Leach is any different than Howland?

I personally feel Howland is a much better coach and program leader than Leach.

[Saltydog]

I hope we hire the dirtiest SOB out there.......Gregg Marshall, Sean Miller, Pitino I don't care at this point.......We're in a league with some of the most egregious cheaters of all-time (Cal, Bruce Pearl, Will Wade).......

[HoopsDawg]

Yeah, the guard he got in the portal is DJ which don't fit the need.

There were 10 guards in the portal we could have gotten that would have allowed this team to make the NCAA tourney. Probably 5-10 more if we had broadened our scope to point guards as well as shooting guards. Imagine if this team had a Timmy Bowers type, or even a Dashuan Ruffin type to pair with Molinar. Moore is a good player, but he should be a rotation guy on a NCAA tourney team. Same with Watts. I don't know why we felt we were addressing a hole with those guys. Big miss by the staff and Howland.

[MoreCowbell]

After his first two years building from the Rick ray debacle, Ben has had us in the tournament or the NIT five years in a row. Are we sure we are a better program than that?

And that's playing in a Sunday school environment every home game where our fans don't show up and our administration does nothing to encourage students to show up.

Maybe, maybe not. It is time to move on though.

[Cooterpoot]

Go hire the biggest cheater with a winning track record you can find. Make Will Wade look like a penny slots guy.

[bobcat91]

We harbored concerns but were hopeful things would get worked out and it would all come together. Just didn?t happen. Very disappointing game and season. Ben/John have been allowed plenty of time to get it done but now it?s time for Keenum to make changes.

The reason we got Rick Ray was because of Keenum. He refused to hire a coach who played the AAU recruiting game, i.e. buying players. Let that sink in. Keenum gave you Rick Ray. He needs to be as far away from this hire as possible.

College Basketball is a dirty, dirty sport and there are no clean hands in the industry. Go hire a winner, and get out of his way. That's the only way to win in CBB.

[confucius say]

Maybe, maybe not. It is time to move on though.

I don't disagree. I'm just saying our administration has to reseat the hump and create a student-led environment, or the next guy won't have a chance either. Nobody enjoys going to basketball games now.

[Johnson85]

We are NIT bound and will underachieve. Howland will "retire" at the end of the season.

Will be interesting to see where this program goes from here as we head into April

As much as I tried to manage my own expectations, I really thought that Howland would eventually figure things out. Not sure if he's not the same coach or the game has changed too much or what, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen for him.

[Commercecomet24]

I don't disagree. I'm just saying our administration has to reseat the hump and create a student-led environment, or the next guy won't have a chance either. Nobody enjoys going to basketball games now.

I agree that the reseating has to happen and we have to improve the environment. That being said good coaches find ways to win even in less than impressive environments, happens everyday in every sport. Ben's had the talent he just doesn't seem to have the drive anymore, like most of us have said he looks old and tired and the team plays like it.

[Commercecomet24]

As much as I tried to manage my own expectations, I really thought that Howland would eventually figure things out. Not sure if he's not the same coach or the game has changed too much or what, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen for him.

I was right there with you. I always like giving our coaches a chance to build it their way and see what they can do before losing confidence in them, but it's obvious Ben is past his prime and it's just not gonna work. It happens. He got us at least respectable again and I'm grateful for that.

[parabrave]

I agree that the reseating has to happen and we have to improve the environment. That being said good coaches find ways to win even in less than impressive environments, happens everyday in every sport. Ben's had the talent he just doesn't seem to have the drive anymore, like most of us have said he looks old and tired and the team plays like it.

Its not only at the Hump. Corps buy up the best seats, usually in blocks, and never get anyone to go to the games. The casinos bought most of the best seats at MGM park and can't give them away. At least one casino who has 10 tickets has a promotions guy walking the Highway giving them away. As a result the seating that is most public goes empty. The UNI needs to tell the ticket owners that 10 mins into the game they are going to open these if they haven't been checked in.

[Commercecomet24]

Its not only at the Hump. Corps buy up the best seats, usually in blocks, and never get anyone to go to the games. The casinos bought most of the best seats at MGM park and can't give them away. At least one casino who has 10 tickets has a promotions guy walking the Highway giving them away. As a result the seating that is most public goes empty. The UNI needs to tell the ticket owners that 10 mins into the game they are going to open these if they haven't been checked in.

Yep.

[Liverpooldawg]

I'm just glad we have been so much better since Coach34 led the charge to get rid of the coach before the last one. All we had to do to get better was get rid of that guy he told us....and it worked!!!! ******* 34 knows his basketball.

[Liverpooldawg]

The REAL demise of the atmosphere at the Hump was when the much revered ( and he should be reviled for this alone) Greg Byrne basically kicked the local hardcore basketball fans out of the Hump in favor of big donors who only show up for Kentucky and Ole Miss (if it's on the weekend and they don't have anything else to do) and corporate donors whose seats likely as not are taken up by opposing fans. The Hump has never been the same and never will be again atmosphere wise as long as we continue to cater to those folks. The locals and their kids were the real keepers of the flame, not the students. If we went back to the old way it would take YEARS, and another Richard Willams, to get it back. Our basketball woes were totally preventable, and totally self inflicted.

[Coach34]

I'm just glad we have been so much better since Coach34 led the charge to get rid of the coach before the last one. All we had to do to get better was get rid of that guy he told us....and it worked!!!! ******* 34 knows his basketball.

You are so stupid its both laughable and sad. Our Administration fired Stands because of the shitshow we had become and the rampant drug use going on in the program. A national magazine called us the "most dysfunctional program in America". That had zero to do with my ass you moron. Only blind Stands fans couldnt see it.

I really hate we fired him in 2012. I wish we had kept him 1 more season when it would have really gotten bad. Our Administration saved him and his legacy. They just went idiot and wanted to try hiring a coach that wasnt going to pay for players as Stands did

[confucius say]

You are so stupid its both laughable and sad. Our Administration fired Stands because of the shitshow we had become and the rampant drug use going on in the program. A national magazine called us the "most dysfunctional program in America". That had zero to do with my ass you moron. Only blind Stands fans couldnt see it.

I really hate we fired him in 2012. I wish we had kept him 1 more season when it would have really gotten bad. Our Administration saved him and his legacy. They just went idiot and wanted to try hiring a coach that wasnt going to pay for players as Stands did

Nobody cares about some failed drug tests and a fight if you are winning at an acceptable level. We've proven that time and again. We fired Stans bc he wasn't winning at the level we thought he should. It's why we didn't him fire after the fight and the failed tests, we waited until he didn't make the tournament.

Before we run Ben off, we better make sure we have a plan so history doesn't repeat itself.

[thf24]

As much as I tried to manage my own expectations, I really thought that Howland would eventually figure things out. Not sure if he's not the same coach or the game has changed too much or what, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen for him.

I was in the same boat, but I think it's become obvious that he simply doesn't have the energy or drive left to prepare for and coach every moment of big games at a high level on a consistent basis. Contrary to popular belief, at a glance we don't play a brand of basketball that's lacking or inferior to what most other teams are doing. But we seem to always come out of the gate on our back foot when it matters most, and even when we manage to get back in it, Howland gets utterly whipped by his opposite number in the crucial moments. I think it's undeniable at this point that while he did a fine job at pulling us out of the dumps and stabilizing the program, it's time for him to hang it up.

[Coach34]

Nobody cares about some failed drug tests and a fight if you are winning at an acceptable level. We've proven that time and again. We fired Stans bc he wasn't winning at the level we thought he should. It's why we didn't him fire after the fight and the failed tests, we waited until he didn't make the tournament.

Before we run Ben off, we better make sure we have a plan so history doesn't repeat itself.


I promise you that is 100% untrue. He was absolutely fired because of off the court. Not on the court. Same as JoMo. JoMo went to two bowls and beat Mississippi twice- fired. Why? Shitshow behind the scenes

[Todd4State]

John Cohen doesn't have the balls to hire anything but another retread or outside the box nobody. Nothings going to change.
He should save the renovation money and put it toward football if that's what he's going to do again.

If anything he has too much balls and hires someone that requires a complete roster overhaul and two year rebuild.

[Liverpooldawg]

You are so stupid its both laughable and sad. Our Administration fired Stands because of the shitshow we had become and the rampant drug use going on in the program. A national magazine called us the "most dysfunctional program in America". That had zero to do with my ass you moron. Only blind Stands fans couldnt see it.

I really hate we fired him in 2012. I wish we had kept him 1 more season when it would have really gotten bad. Our Administration saved him and his legacy. They just went idiot and wanted to try hiring a coach that wasnt going to pay for players as Stands did

AT THE TIME I was arguing for one more year for that very reason and you blasted me over and over. You thought no such thing back then, and everyone around back then knows it. You wanted to fire him years before that. You are dang laughable. I actually agree with you on most things Football, but you don't know a damn thing about college basketball and have proved it over and over again. I'll admit I don't know much about it NOW, but back then I did, and I was a heck of a lot more wired in to the MSU program than you were. You were wrong about pretty much everything you every said back then, and time has proved that. We are STILL paying the price for what went on in that 4-5 year period. Stans can not escape blame for it, but you and most other MSU fans are completely wrong about what really happened. The fat dude had little to nothing to do with it. He was a symptom, not a cause. The rot started several years before that, and that only because of fan pressure. As long as those involved are alive I'm not commenting farther than that, unless I outlive the names, which I won't.

[confucius say]

I promise you that is 100% untrue. He was absolutely fired because of off the court. Not on the court. Same as JoMo. JoMo went to two bowls and beat Mississippi twice- fired. Why? Shitshow behind the scenes

So if we make the sweet 16 in 2012 he is fired? No.

The off the court stuff was going on long before we fired him. We just got tired of it and decided it wasn't worth it when he didn't make the ncaa in 2012 with a very good roster. When he was making the ncaa tourney 6 of 11 years we didn't care about players fighting and failed drug tests and players popping off on social media. Same way we didn't care about it under sherrill when we were winning big.

[basedog]

I just don't get the bashing of any ex-Coach, especially Stans as he has been gone a long time. I will say Stans and JWS did more for Msu than most ex-coaches.

[OLJWales]

I've always thought the HI Fight was so embarrassing it prompted the firing considering previous stuff. What would have happened if Sweet 16? Damn good question if you ask me.

[tcdog70]

I just don't get the bashing of any ex-Coach, especially Stans as he has been gone a long time. I will say Stans and JWS did more for Msu than most ex-coaches.

i'M pretty sure Stans had a winning record against every team in the SEC except Fla and Ky. What other Coach in any sport can claim that? In Football -he would be in the Hall Of fame. Also the reason we have a practice facility is because Stans raised the Money--Then didn't ever get to use it. Biggest mistake in MSU history--dumping Stans and taking away loyal fans seats.

[Coach34]

I've always thought the HI Fight was so embarrassing it prompted the firing considering previous stuff. What would have happened if Sweet 16? Damn good question if you ask me.

That's what some of you fail to get. There would have never been a Sweet 16 with all the chaos and drug use. That's why you fire them to attempt to fix the program before it bottoms out like it did with Jackie. We did the same thing with JoMo. Why are people ok with firing JoMo but unable to understand that we did the same thing with Stands? We had people at our team hotel complaining to management about the weed smell in the halls during our bowl game. Our LB beat the shit out of our QB. That's why we fired JoMo even though he made 2 straight bowl games and beat Mississippi twice. Well, we did the same thing with Stands- the fight on TV, rampant drug use to the point a player had to be sent to Texas to rehab for cocaine. Moultrie suspended for drug use. Bost being a lunatic on social media. The Sporting News calling us the most dysfunctional program in America. That's why we fired Stands. It's the same thing.

the Cheerleader and Keenum went the wrong direction with Ray. They wanted to get away from being looked at as "a dirty program" so they found a sucker in Ray to take the job. He wasnt ready for it. So what happened then? Our boosters got together and grabbed Howland- explaining to them that "this is what we are going to do". Howland has the program now at the level Stands had it when he was fired. We have returned to mediocrity.

[Commercecomet24]

I've always thought the HI Fight was so embarrassing it prompted the firing considering previous stuff. What would have happened if Sweet 16? Damn good question if you ask me.

It is a good question but a sweet 16 was NEVER happening with that team, EVER. It was a disaster and no way it was happening. That team went down in flames(some pun intended).

[thf24]

i'M pretty sure Stans had a winning record against every team in the SEC except Fla and Ky.

Not exactly a tremendous feat given the state of most of the SEC and the West-heavy schedules during his tenure.


Biggest mistake in MSU history--dumping Stans and taking away loyal fans seats.

Too bad he forced our hand by allowing his locker room to descend into a raging dumpster fire. If he hadn't abandoned his early formula of keeping high-character glue guys around to hold the problem children in check, he'd probably still be here.

[OLJWales]

It is a good question but a sweet 16 was NEVER happening with that team, EVER. It was a disaster and no way it was happening. That team went down in flames(some pun intended).

Never said we had a chance but stills a good question IMO.

[PGHBulldogBG]

That's what some of you fail to get. There would have never been a Sweet 16 with all the chaos and drug use. That's why you fire them to attempt to fix the program before it bottoms out like it did with Jackie. We did the same thing with JoMo. Why are people ok with firing JoMo but unable to understand that we did the same thing with Stands? We had people at our team hotel complaining to management about the weed smell in the halls during our bowl game. Our LB beat the shit out of our QB. That's why we fired JoMo even though he made 2 straight bowl games and beat Mississippi twice. Well, we did the same thing with Stands- the fight on TV, rampant drug use to the point a player had to be sent to Texas to rehab for cocaine. Moultrie suspended for drug use. Bost being a lunatic on social media. The Sporting News calling us the most dysfunctional program in America. That's why we fired Stands. It's the same thing.

the Cheerleader and Keenum went the wrong direction with Ray. They wanted to get away from being looked at as "a dirty program" so they found a sucker in Ray to take the job. He wasnt ready for it. So what happened then? Our boosters got together and grabbed Howland- explaining to them that "this is what we are going to do". Howland has the program now at the level Stands had it when he was fired. We have returned to mediocrity.

This is all spot on. People try to debate the fact that Stans was fired for results but that is just not true. If he had run a clean program and didn?t have this turmoil he might still be our coach. Richard Williams was a much better coach than Stans and he was still fired for his situation. Howland has basically brought us back to Stans level which I appreciate him for that. Now it?s time to get a young energetic mis major coach that is ready to coach an SEC program that will excite the fans. Not Sean Miller or Gregg Marshall. Let?s get someone like Oklahoma did with Mosier

[KOdawg1]

Hire Sean Miller

[confucius say]

That's what some of you fail to get. There would have never been a Sweet 16 with all the chaos and drug use. That's why you fire them to attempt to fix the program before it bottoms out like it did with Jackie. We did the same thing with JoMo. Why are people ok with firing JoMo but unable to understand that we did the same thing with Stands? We had people at our team hotel complaining to management about the weed smell in the halls during our bowl game. Our LB beat the shit out of our QB. That's why we fired JoMo even though he made 2 straight bowl games and beat Mississippi twice. Well, we did the same thing with Stands- the fight on TV, rampant drug use to the point a player had to be sent to Texas to rehab for cocaine. Moultrie suspended for drug use. Bost being a lunatic on social media. The Sporting News calling us the most dysfunctional program in America. That's why we fired Stands. It's the same thing.

the Cheerleader and Keenum went the wrong direction with Ray. They wanted to get away from being looked at as "a dirty program" so they found a sucker in Ray to take the job. He wasnt ready for it. So what happened then? Our boosters got together and grabbed Howland- explaining to them that "this is what we are going to do". Howland has the program now at the level Stands had it when he was fired. We have returned to mediocrity.

If that were true we would have fired Stans when all that went on, way before March 2012, not after he failed to make the tourney a third straight year. And regarding Joe, if he goes 10-2 he doesn't get fired. Same way we didn't fire sherrill despite all the issues 98-2000.

Stricklin ruined our basketball program with nearly every decision he made related to it. Turning the hump into a nursing home and hiring ray were both even worse decisions than firing Stans.

[confucius say]

Hire Sean Miller

I'm for it.

[Coach34]

If that were true we would have fired Stans when all that went on, way before March 2012, not after he failed to make the tourney a third straight year. And regarding Joe, if he goes 10-2 he doesn't get fired. Same way we didn't fire sherrill despite all the issues 98-2000.

Stricklin ruined our basketball program with nearly every decision he made related to it. Turning the hump into a nursing home and hiring ray were both even worse decisions than firing Stans.

Ok- either you just cant understand it or refuse to accept it. When you have rampant drug use, players sitting out games with a bruise, players yelling at coaches, and your LB beating up your QB- you never go 10-2. You don't make the Sweet 16 when your team is the posterchild for chaos.

Your "if" is an "if" because its a fantasy that doesnt happen

[thf24]

If that were true we would have fired Stans when all that went on, way before March 2012, not after he failed to make the tourney a third straight year. And regarding Joe, if he goes 10-2 he doesn't get fired. Same way we didn't fire sherrill despite all the issues 98-2000.

It's a combination of the two. The ultimatum prior to '11-'12 was - if you're going to parade our program through the mud, you'd better win big. And he couldn't make it happen. If he'd only gone one way or the other in those last few years, either make the deep tournament runs expected of our talent level, or get our name and program relatively clean again, there's a great chance he'd still be here.

[BrunswickDawg]

If that were true we would have fired Stans when all that went on, way before March 2012, not after he failed to make the tourney a third straight year. And regarding Joe, if he goes 10-2 he doesn't get fired. Same way we didn't fire sherrill despite all the issues 98-2000.

Stricklin ruined our basketball program with nearly every decision he made related to it. Turning the hump into a nursing home and hiring ray were both even worse decisions than firing Stans.

The Hawaiian Punch was in December 2010 ('10-'11 Season) Moultrie Knee was the 2011-12 season, Bost's insanity was after he failed to withdraw from the Draft properly in April '10 - so he was a cancer in '11 and '12 when he didn't want to be at MSU and had no options. So, all of that is pretty much what contributed to us not making the dance those 3 years. Stans early teams weren't full of crazy like that.

[confucius say]

It's a combination of the two. The ultimatum prior to '11-'12 was - if you're going to parade our program through the mud, you'd better win big. And he couldn't make it happen. If he'd only gone one way or the other in those last few years, either make the deep tournament runs expected of our talent level, or get our name and program relatively clean again, there's a great chance he'd still be here.

Exactly. The off the court stuff wasn't acceptable anymore once we stopped going to the tourney. When Rhodes amd Gordon and Phil turner and ravern Johnson were having their episodes it was fine bc we were in the ncaa every year or every other year.

[confucius say]

Ok- either you just cant understand it or refuse to accept it. When you have rampant drug use, players sitting out games with a bruise, players yelling at coaches, and your LB beating up your QB- you never go 10-2. You don't make the Sweet 16 when your team is the posterchild for chaos.

Your "if" is an "if" because its a fantasy that doesnt happen

No I get your point, that the off court stuff prevented on court success. It just aids my argument-that the on court success was what mattered at the end of the day. All of the crap with jamont and Rhodes and turner and ravern Johnson was overlooked when we were making the dance.

And we went 9-2 in 99 with multiple fights, drug use galore, multiple arrests, etc... I'm just glad social media wasn't alive back then and the police called the coaching staff before booking. The actors on that team made 2019 look like choir boys. They knew when to handle business though.

[Johnson85]

No I get your point, that the off court stuff prevented on court success. It just aids my argument-that the on court success was what mattered at the end of the day. All of the crap with jamont and Rhodes and turner and ravern Johnson was overlooked when we were making the dance.

And we went 9-2 in 99 with multiple fights, drug use galore, multiple arrests, etc... I'm just glad social media wasn't alive back then and the police called the coaching staff before booking. The actors on that team made 2019 look like choir boys. They knew when to handle business though.

If Stansbury had had his (lack of) success without being dysfunctional, there would have been a lot of support for letting him try to turn it around because they would have believed he could add talent to a team that was otherwise functional. The problem is that in basketball, when you lose the locker room, it's extremely hard to get it back recruiting somewhat ties your hands. Very few players are going to threaten to report anything like that, but it happens (gary ervin).

[maroonmania]

Ok- either you just cant understand it or refuse to accept it. When you have rampant drug use, players sitting out games with a bruise, players yelling at coaches, and your LB beating up your QB- you never go 10-2. You don't make the Sweet 16 when your team is the posterchild for chaos.

Your "if" is an "if" because its a fantasy that doesnt happen

Tha 85 Villanova team did prove that drug use alone won't stop you.

[OLJWales]

As long as the program's meeting or exceeding expectations and no bad publicity (keeping things under the rug) then everything rolls along. Bad Pub's brought down many good ones when the school had no choice. Start Sucking and den duh Maine gonna come 'roun here peepin' under dat rug and bring ya down.