Want to make sure this is seen....

[Coach34]

So this year- the motto is "you are what your record says you are"

BUT

Last year the motto was "we are 8-4 but we havent beaten anybody"....people did all they could to discredit us going 8-4 and 4-4 in the SEC. And they still do it- even our own fans. But suddenly this year, it's -"you are what your record says you are" ?????

Why werent we what our record said we were last year???

[Madkinmecrazy]

We were an 8-5 team last year, exactly like our record said.

[Coach34]

We were an 8-5 team last year, exactly like our record said.

Thats the first I've heard of that. I keep hearing other programs- that won fewer games- had better seasons

[Madkinmecrazy]

Thats the first I've heard of that. I keep hearing other programs- that won fewer games- had better seasons

I guess you'll always get that from some people who say that you didn't get a signature win or that you should have beat so-and-so. Sure, we didn't beat any good teams last year, but we still won 8 games. Not our fault that those teams sucked.

In the moment, sometimes a season feels different that the record states, but after a month or 2 (and certainly after a couple of seasons) the record is all you have to go on.

[tenureplan]

Thats the first I've heard of that. I keep hearing other programs- that won fewer games- had better seasons

We had a good season for a not so good team.

[engie]

Thats the first I've heard of that. I keep hearing other programs- that won fewer games- had better seasons

Had better seasons or were better teams? That's an important distinction to make

[tenureplan]

Had better seasons or were better teams? That's an important distinction to make

exactly

[Barking 13]

IMO it's a weird season... every year

[hells bells]

So this year- the motto is "you are what your record says you are"

BUT

Last year the motto was "we are 8-4 but we havent beaten anybody"....people did all they could to discredit us going 8-4 and 4-4 in the SEC. And they still do it- even our own fans. But suddenly this year, it's -"you are what your record says you are" ?????

Why werent we what our record said we were last year???

Most of the hub bub is from the so-called media perception of MSU. I personally do not listen to Bounds, Finbaum, ect. I just refuse to panic about the program. Saturday night made me think, crowd stayed engaged throughout the game, recruits seemed excited, D-fense is damn good. The downward portion is special teams, kicking game, and QB injuries to Dak. I might be wearing ros? colored shades boys but I am very optimistic for the future. Main stream media does not dictate my opinion.

[PassInterference]

It was "can't beat any SECW teams except Ole Miss" until we beat Auburn.

Then it was "your 7-0 doesn't mean anything"...until this year when we aren't close to 7-0 and all the sudden records don't matter.

Folks, don't buy the Ole Miss spin. They find fault in everything and straight up specialize in making you believe it. If we were headed to the SEC CG, they'd discredit us for....wait we did go to the SEC CG and they do discredit that for reasons I won't dignify here (and I better damn well better not see you folks do it for them).

Don't buy the spin. "We drive tractors; they sue people." They specialize in spin.

PS: WE WERE IN THE GD WORLD SERIES!!! When is the last time Ole Miss played for a national championship in ANYTHING? Not even disc golf! Ha!

[I seen it dawg]

Had better seasons or were better teams? That's an important distinction to make

It did say had better seasons...I'm going with that

[smootness]

Had better seasons or were better teams? That's an important distinction to make

But isn't that the point of the OP?

The quote is, 'You are what your record says you are'. So if you buy into that, then you will always say that an 8-4 team is better than a 7-5 team, because those teams are both what their records say they are.

The quote is not, 'Your record reflects the kind of season you had'. No one disputes that statement.

So you're basically proving his point...which is that when our record is not as good, everyone says, 'No, no, we are what our record says we are. We aren't a very good team'. But then when our record is better, it's, 'Well, our record is ok, but we're not a very good team'. You can't have it both ways. If you can be a worse team than your record reflects, then you can also be a better team than your record reflects.

[CJDAWG85]

When we beat Auburn and Tennessee last year, both of those teams were still playing for the postseason. By the end of the year, they had packed it in and everyone viewed it as that was the team MSU beat.

[Coach34]

It did say had better seasons...I'm going with that

8 wins > 7 wins

If you "are what your record is"- then 8 win teams have better seasons

[angusyoung]

Coach I get what angle you are pushing here but you and I both know Parcell's intent when he so famously said "you are what your record says you are" he was more specifically referring to when you had a bad season not a good season. The intent of the statement was to reflect the opinion of an NFL GM when reviewing a coach's employment status.

If you finish with a losing record but then make 15 different excuses as to why you had a bad season, no one wants to hear it. You are what your record says you are. The true intent of the phrase is not to also explain a winning record.

[CadaverDawg]

So this year- the motto is "you are what your record says you are"

BUT

Last year the motto was "we are 8-4 but we havent beaten anybody"....people did all they could to discredit us going 8-4 and 4-4 in the SEC. And they still do it- even our own fans. But suddenly this year, it's -"you are what your record says you are" ?????

Why werent we what our record said we were last year???

It all depends on when you start looking at it. For instance, we are 5-11 in our last 16 games. So I ask you....are we "what our record says we are"?

[HancockCountyDog]

8 wins > 7 wins

If you "are what your record is"- then 8 win teams have better seasons

If we win 6 and the bears win 7, Im not going to agree with this reasoning;

[Quaoarsking]

Had we lost to Tennessee last year, they probably would have beaten Missouri and Vanderbilt to go 8-4. We really deflated them. And they would be yet another signature win Mullen couldn't get.

[jimbo352]

It's only coming from TSUN... They like to say we didn't beat any good teams last year, well... Neither did they... So, how exactly does one figure they had a better team/season..?

It's called spin brotha, and they're good at it.

[Percho]

Most of the hub bub is from the so-called media perception of MSU. I personally do not listen to Bounds, Finbaum, ect. I just refuse to panic about the program. Saturday night made me think, crowd stayed engaged throughout the game, recruits seemed excited, D-fense is damn good. The downward portion is special teams, kicking game, and QB injuries to Dak. I might be wearing ros? colored shades boys but I am very optimistic for the future. Main stream media does not dictate my opinion.

I like this post.

[Percho]

But isn't that the point of the OP?

The quote is, 'You are what your record says you are'. So if you buy into that, then you will always say that an 8-4 team is better than a 7-5 team, because those teams are both what their records say they are.

The quote is not, 'Your record reflects the kind of season you had'. No one disputes that statement.

So you're basically proving his point...which is that when our record is not as good, everyone says, 'No, no, we are what our record says we are. We aren't a very good team'. But then when our record is better, it's, 'Well, our record is ok, but we're not a very good team'. You can't have it both ways. If you can be a worse team than your record reflects, then you can also be a better team than your record reflects.



That is the reason I posted the other day we could be 13-0 and not be considered for the NC. Our being 13-0 will never be a better team than a 13-0 Alabama team in the eyes of the beholder.

[smootness]

Most of the hub bub is from the so-called media perception of MSU. I personally do not listen to Bounds, Finbaum, ect. I just refuse to panic about the program. Saturday night made me think, crowd stayed engaged throughout the game, recruits seemed excited, D-fense is damn good. The downward portion is special teams, kicking game, and QB injuries to Dak. I might be wearing ros? colored shades boys but I am very optimistic for the future. Main stream media does not dictate my opinion.

Very good post.

I think a lot of the anti-Mullen sentiment does come from a couple of things - both the media perception and from the panic over what Freeze did in recruiting last year.

And it's natural, I've felt it myself at times. But I agree with you, I think if you try to just look at where we are (and obviously you have to take into account where the others in your league are) and shut out the outside noise, you become more optimistic. There are still very questionable decisions at times, but they're not just bad decisions in general; they are almost solely bad choices given the personnel on the field. It makes me question why the coaching staff can't see the personnel we do have on the field and understand why certain play calls won't work, but the good thing is that most of the issues (QB who can't run well, RB who is more of a scat-back than between the tackles) are being solved through recruiting, so it may not matter.

It looks like all of our future QBs will be able to execute a QB draw or read option in short-yardage situations, and it seems like all of our future RBs will be able to pound it if asked. So I'm back on the Mullen train for now.

[smootness]

That is the reason I posted the other day we could be 13-0 and not be considered for the NC. Our being 13-0 will never be a better team than a 13-0 Alabama team in the eyes of the beholder.

Being in the SEC trumps that right now, though. They may not consider us as good as a 13-0 Alabama team, but they would definitely consider us better than an undefeated Ohio State or Baylor from this year, for example. Our resume would overwhelm any perceptions of our program.

[codeDawg]

So this year- the motto is "you are what your record says you are"

BUT

Last year the motto was "we are 8-4 but we havent beaten anybody"....people did all they could to discredit us going 8-4 and 4-4 in the SEC. And they still do it- even our own fans. But suddenly this year, it's -"you are what your record says you are" ?????

Why werent we what our record said we were last year???

Plainly and simply, we have a coach who is doing a respectable job. At work I'll put up with a guy doing a respectable job. In my sports teams I expect more. Ole Miss and Hugh Freeze are doing things we should be doing and that is irritating. They are recruiting well, playing with passion, and pulling upsets.

It should be irritating. You know why UM has Freeze and is doing the things they are doing? It's because we hired Dan Mullen and upped the competitive ante. It's time to compete and not lay down like dogs and take it. If that's not what the administration wants to do, that's fine. Nobody makes me buy tickets or go to games. There are more productive things for me to do with my time.

I don't give a shit if the coach is Mullen or Hud or Hillary Clinton. I expect MSU football to do what it takes to be competitive, and I'm not seeing that right now on the field, in recruiting, or in communications with the fan base.

Since Byrne left there has been a dramatic shift away from progressive leadership. I'm bored with losing and I'm not feeling inspired that anything is going to change. Meh. Somebody give me a ring when the leadership gives a damn again.

[ShotgunDawg]

See... I don't agree with the statement, "you are what your record says you are." In the NFL it holds a little more validity because teams play similar schedules, but in college that isn't the case.

Due to me believing that quote is purely "coach speak", I don't think we were very good last year when we were 8-5, but I do think we are pretty good this year at 4-6. My eyes tell me that, and our record is result of injuries, youth, untimely mistakes, and schedule. Just my opinion though.

How many teams in the country do you think are capable of doing what we did to Bama the other night? 30 teams? 40 teams? 10 teams?

Your answer to that question should tell you what your real opinion is.

[HoopsDawg]

So this year- the motto is "you are what your record says you are"

BUT

Last year the motto was "we are 8-4 but we havent beaten anybody"....people did all they could to discredit us going 8-4 and 4-4 in the SEC. And they still do it- even our own fans. But suddenly this year, it's -"you are what your record says you are" ?????

Why werent we what our record said we were last year???

Who says that's our motto, 2 posters?

I see a coach that's going to miss 2 bowls in 5 years and has a losing overall record against BCS teams and an abysmal record against teams with a pulse.

[MadDawg]

Plainly and simply, we have a coach who is doing a respectable job. At work I'll put up with a guy doing a respectable job. In my sports teams I expect more. Ole Miss and Hugh Freeze are doing things we should be doing and that is irritating. They are recruiting well, playing with passion, and pulling upsets.

It should be irritating. You know why UM has Freeze and is doing the things they are doing? It's because we hired Dan Mullen and upped the competitive ante. It's time to compete and not lay down like dogs and take it. If that's not what the administration wants to do, that's fine. Nobody makes me buy tickets or go to games. There are more productive things for me to do with my time.

I don't give a shit if the coach is Mullen or Hud or Hillary Clinton. I expect MSU football to do what it takes to be competitive, and I'm not seeing that right now on the field, in recruiting, or in communications with the fan base.

Since Byrne left there has been a dramatic shift away from progressive leadership. I'm bored with losing and I'm not feeling inspired that anything is going to change. Meh. Somebody give me a ring when the leadership gives a damn again.

Wow. I respect your opinion, but there is just so much here I disagree with.

1. I do think Mullen has done a good job. Call it respectable or whatever, but he's done enough to continue his employment.
2. The Bears did land an outstanding recruiting class (the cause of about 95% of the anti-Mullen attitudes) and that's cause for concern, but let's not act like all of a suddent they are on the verge of winning the west. They've had one upset this year. Against an LSU team that might not be ranked by the end of the season.
3. You think the hiring of Hugh Freeze upped the ante? Freeze was considered a trump card hire over Mullen? Don't think so. Most people are a little surprised of his limited success. Nobody is saying "see I told you Freeze would light up the SEC when he got there from Arkansas State!"
4. You have the right to threaten to never come to another game until the coach gets fired. I think it's kind of silly but knock yourself out.
5. Now nobody at MSU gives a damn? Really? And you are "bored with losing". What are you, like 12? If you can't handle losing games to top 20 teams, you might want to find a perennial top-10 program to root for.

[engie]

That is the reason I posted the other day we could be 13-0 and not be considered for the NC. Our being 13-0 will never be a better team than a 13-0 Alabama team in the eyes of the beholder.

This is total insanity.

ANY TEAM that goes 13-0 in the SEC will be playing for a national title until further notice. If we went 13-0 this year against the schedule we've faced -- we'd be in talks as one of the great SEC teams of the current era.

It's funny to me that people can dismiss all this stuff as media "conspiracy theories" to keep poor ole MSU down -- when they were ALL over our jock in 2010 and leading into 2011. Maybe MSU FANS just think we're a much bigger threat than anyone else out there -- surely that can't be it? After we've proven to be pretenders at least once before when we crept onto the radar...

The bottom line is -- respect is earned -- and the fact that they don't respect us JUST REFLECTS BADLY ON US. They aren't going to sit there and talk a bunch of this noise if they think there's even a marginal chance that we make them eat their words.

[Political Hack]

This is total insanity.

ANY TEAM that goes 13-0 in the SEC will be playing for a national title until further notice. If we went 13-0 this year against the schedule we've faced -- we'd be in talks as one of the great SEC teams of the current era.

It's funny to me that people can dismiss all this stuff as media "conspiracy theories" to keep poor ole MSU down -- when they were ALL over our jock in 2010 and leading into 2011. Maybe MSU FANS just think we're a much bigger threat than anyone else out there -- surely that can't be it? After we've proven to be pretenders at least once before when we crept onto the radar...

The bottom line is -- respect is earned -- and the fact that they don't respect us JUST REFLECTS BADLY ON US. They aren't going to sit there and talk a bunch of this noise if they think there's even a marginal chance that we make them eat their words.

I generally agree when it pertains to us. The flip side of this coin though is why the hell the media gives two rats asses about OM. Freeze is 14-9 with only two quality wins if you count the egg bowl last season. Can you buy good media coverage???

[BrunswickDawg]

They've had one upset this year. Against an LSU team that might not be ranked by the end of the season.

Dive into that a little more... Say LSU loses to JFF this weekend, and finishes 8-5 (Ark win/Bowl Loss) and OM loses out finishing 7-6 (Bowl Loss too), is that really an upset? Two unranked teams? Under the way we discount Mullen victories over UGA, UF, and "2nd tier" conference schools that go to bowls or win 8-10 games - we should do the same to Bucky. Greatest 'cruitin class in football history and all they can do is beat a "down" LSU? Bucky sucks. Fire him now!!!!!

[Percho]

This is total insanity.

ANY TEAM that goes 13-0 in the SEC will be playing for a national title until further notice. If we went 13-0 this year against the schedule we've faced -- we'd be in talks as one of the great SEC teams of the current era.

It's funny to me that people can dismiss all this stuff as media "conspiracy theories" to keep poor ole MSU down -- when they were ALL over our jock in 2010 and leading into 2011. Maybe MSU FANS just think we're a much bigger threat than anyone else out there -- surely that can't be it? After we've proven to be pretenders at least once before when we crept onto the radar...

The bottom line is -- respect is earned -- and the fact that they don't respect us JUST REFLECTS BADLY ON US. They aren't going to sit there and talk a bunch of this noise if they think there's even a marginal chance that we make them eat their words.

I agree with you. However if we went 13-0 we would get respect that we are 13-0 but it would because everybody else were down or had injuries or something else. Well the SEC overall wasn't very good that year. We would get respect that would would have an * by it.

[Percho]

Dive into that a little more... Say LSU loses to JFF this weekend, and finishes 8-5 (Ark win/Bowl Loss) and OM loses out finishing 7-6 (Bowl Loss too), is that really an upset? Two unranked teams? Under the way we discount Mullen victories over UGA, UF, and "2nd tier" conference schools that go to bowls or win 8-10 games - we should do the same to Bucky. Greatest 'cruitin class in football history and all they can do is beat a "down" LSU? Bucky sucks. Fire him now!!!!!

My point made again. *13-0

[Coach34]

It all depends on when you start looking at it. For instance, we are 5-11 in our last 16 games. So I ask you....are we "what our record says we are"?

that's cherry-picked to fit an agenda...you are talking about 2 different teams 2012 and 2013

2012- we were 8-5- that's the bottom line

This year, we are 4-6 with 2 more games

[PassInterference]

that's cherry-picked to fit an agenda...you are talking about 2 different teams 2012 and 2013

2012- we were 8-5- that's the bottom line

This year, we are 4-6 with 2 more games

And a shot at 7-6. A whopping 1 game behind last year (even if we all agree last year was disappointing).

[codeDawg]

Wow. I respect your opinion, but there is just so much here I disagree with.

1. I do think Mullen has done a good job. Call it respectable or whatever, but he's done enough to continue his employment.
2. The Bears did land an outstanding recruiting class (the cause of about 95% of the anti-Mullen attitudes) and that's cause for concern, but let's not act like all of a suddent they are on the verge of winning the west. They've had one upset this year. Against an LSU team that might not be ranked by the end of the season.
3. You think the hiring of Hugh Freeze upped the ante? Freeze was considered a trump card hire over Mullen? Don't think so. Most people are a little surprised of his limited success. Nobody is saying "see I told you Freeze would light up the SEC when he got there from Arkansas State!"
4. You have the right to threaten to never come to another game until the coach gets fired. I think it's kind of silly but knock yourself out.
5. Now nobody at MSU gives a damn? Really? And you are "bored with losing". What are you, like 12? If you can't handle losing games to top 20 teams, you might want to find a perennial top-10 program to root for.

1. I'm not arguing one way or another for Mullen's job. I'm arguing that the results are on a downward trend. Mullen circa 2009, 2010, 2012 are day and night to Mullen 2012 and 2013.
2. The #1 contributor to winning games is talent. UM is getting middle to upper SEC talent. We are at the bottom of the SEC even in a good year. We won't ever have consistent success here, but we have to compete better. I think everyone recognizes that.
3. There is a lot more to what is going on and changes UM made beyond the Freeze hire, but the replacement of the AD, the hiring of Freeze based on his recruiting success on Orgeron's staff, and the booster level of involvement are all responses to Mullen's early success.
4. I'm not threatening that at all. I'm just not motivated to do so. I've been on campus a few times this year to have fun with friends and family, but sitting through a beating every week making the same mistakes is not on my good times list.
5. I've been through Sherrill, Croom, and now Mullen. I've been to 90% of Sherrill, Croom's, and before this year, Mullen's home games. I've not seen our fan base this lethargic and unmotivated since Croom 2008. Include me in that. Dan's head has started to come out of his ass, but registering a pulse doesn't necessarily motivate me to devote a weekend, drive several hours, and spend my money on this product.

It's not just that we losing. It's a lack of effort from the team early in the year. A lack of passion from the coach. A lack of communication, messaging, and engagement from the athletic department in general. Since Byrne left, we're back to poor 'ole MSU. We are not competing. We are not innovating. We are not motivating. I would rather not purchase that product.

[smootness]

1. I'm not arguing one way or another for Mullen's job. I'm arguing that the results are on a downward trend. Mullen circa 2009, 2010, 2012 are day and night to Mullen 2012 and 2013.

How so on this?

5-7 in 2009.
9-4 in 2010.
7-6 in 2011.
8-5 in 2012.
We'll see in 2013 - possibility of 7-6.

[The Croom Diaries]

We are basically the same team with different variables every year for the last three years: we've lost to every single winning team we've played except LA Tech, MTSU and BG. We've beaten every single losing team we've played. Our win total has been totally dependent on scheduling. 80% of the crowd, including myself, wouldn't be questioning Mullen if Hud weren't out there. That's it. It's a strike while the iron is hot on Hud because Mullen hasn't proven he can get us over the hump. Niether has Hud obviously but maybe it's worth the gamble. This all has to do with hoping for the best (Mullen goes 6-6) but preparing for the worst (4-8 or 5-7). In the end there's a 90% chance Mullen will be back and I'm sure 90% of the fans will rally behind that because the decision has been made. But the team better find a way to win a big game next year or the apathy will really start to set in. Just winning the Egg Bowl will cure most of the ails - we will beat a good team and beat Ole Miss: a double shot of enthusiasm. If it makes us 6-6 that will be a triple shot and we'll be right back rolling again with a confident and enthusiastic fanbase.

[DawgsBite34]

Thats the first I've heard of that. I keep hearing other programs- that won fewer games- had better seasons

because they didn't lose 4 out of 5 down the stretch and get beaten by a less talented Northwestern team and less talented Ole Miss team

[Coach34]

.
5. I've been through Sherrill, Croom, and now Mullen. I've been to 90% of Sherrill, Croom's, and before this year, Mullen's home games. I've not seen our fan base this lethargic and unmotivated since Croom 2008. Include me in that. Dan's head has started to come out of his ass, but registering a pulse doesn't necessarily motivate me to devote a weekend, drive several hours, and spend my money on this product.

It's not just that we losing. It's a lack of effort from the team early in the year. A lack of passion from the coach..

There was nothing lethargic about our fans this past Saturday night
After we win Saturday- there will be nothing lethargic about the Egg Bowl

After we win the Egg Bowl- there will be nothing lethargic about our fanbase going to a bowl- and our team having 16 starters returning for next season- plus the two that we lost early this season also returning

[Coach34]

because they didn't lose 4 out of 5 down the stretch and get beaten by a less talented Northwestern team and less talented Ole Miss team

but they lost 3 of 5 down the stretch and beat a shitty Pitt team in a shitty bowl

Your record is what it says it is- remember?

[DawgsBite34]

1. I'm not arguing one way or another for Mullen's job. I'm arguing that the results are on a downward trend. Mullen circa 2009, 2010, 2012 are day and night to Mullen 2012 and 2013.
2. The #1 contributor to winning games is talent. UM is getting middle to upper SEC talent. We are at the bottom of the SEC even in a good year. We won't ever have consistent success here, but we have to compete better. I think everyone recognizes that.
3. There is a lot more to what is going on and changes UM made beyond the Freeze hire, but the replacement of the AD, the hiring of Freeze based on his recruiting success on Orgeron's staff, and the booster level of involvement are all responses to Mullen's early success.
4. I'm not threatening that at all. I'm just not motivated to do so. I've been on campus a few times this year to have fun with friends and family, but sitting through a beating every week making the same mistakes is not on my good times list.
5. I've been through Sherrill, Croom, and now Mullen. I've been to 90% of Sherrill, Croom's, and before this year, Mullen's home games. I've not seen our fan base this lethargic and unmotivated since Croom 2008. Include me in that. Dan's head has started to come out of his ass, but registering a pulse doesn't necessarily motivate me to devote a weekend, drive several hours, and spend my money on this product.

It's not just that we losing. It's a lack of effort from the team early in the year. A lack of passion from the coach. A lack of communication, messaging, and engagement from the athletic department in general. Since Byrne left, we're back to poor 'ole MSU. We are not competing. We are not innovating. We are not motivating. I would rather not purchase that product.

Damn man id think you were in the middle of a depression reading this, I agree Mullen 2012 and 2013 are not even close to Mullen 2009-2011 but the talent level at State is every bit as good as Ole Miss. Look at the recent history of the Egg Bowl hell go back to mid 90s the talent level they have is about equal with ours. Freeze isn't some genius Mullen can kick his ass next Thursday and all the momentum comes back to us. Im behind Dan as long as he is here because I am behind MS State. I want us to win out so Dan can stay, not for Dan but for us to win the Egg Bowl and go bowling for the 4th straight year.

[codeDawg]

Tell me with a straight face that the Dan Mullen you have seen on the sideline last year and this year inspires confidence. Tell me the message from the athletic department says we are all in and will do whatever it takes to elevate the MSU football program. Tell me you have confidence we are going to walk into a stadium we have NEVER won in and then take a team we are statistically inferior to despite our easier SOS and then win our crappy bowl.


How so on this?

5-7 in 2009.
9-4 in 2010.
7-6 in 2011.
8-5 in 2012.
We'll see in 2013 - possibility of 7-6.

[cheewgumm]

nnnmmmm

[CadaverDawg]

that's cherry-picked to fit an agenda...you are talking about 2 different teams 2012 and 2013

2012- we were 8-5- that's the bottom line

This year, we are 4-6 with 2 more games

Whoa whoa whoa....I'm cherry-picking?? Haha.

You're using a quote from Bill Parcells that 3 message board posters agreed to, to show what the new "motto" is....yet I'm "cherry-picking to meet an agenda"? Good grief, Mullen's balls are covering up your eyes.

I'm actually using FACTS and STATS from the last 16 games. We're 5-11.

Again, I'm not saying anything negative against Mullen...I'm even inching back towards being on board with him as coach. Just saying, if you're going to "be what your record says you are", then 5-11 over the last 16 is also what our record is.

[DawgsBite34]

but they lost 3 of 5 down the stretch and beat a shitty Pitt team in a shitty bowl

Your record is what it says it is- remember?

true but they also took LSU to the wire, beat their in state rival at home, and off a 2-10 season they went 7-6. we were off a 7-6 and went 8-5. let me make this clear I am not at all worried about ole miss. I don't think what they do defines us, I wanna kick their ass each and every year. We shouldn't worry about their recruiting their coach etc. we worry about us and kicking their ass takes care of itself. I think in recent history our program is just as good if not better than theirs. We are a much better team than 4-6 its just a shame that our coach doesn't have us at 5 or 6 wins already like we should be. I agree with you, we are better than 4-6 it will show the next two weeks if we have Dakota

[FlabLoser]

What good teams did we we beat in '09 & '10 that we aren't beating now?

[DawgsBite34]

Tell me with a straight face that the Dan Mullen you have seen on the sideline last year and this year inspires confidence. Tell me the message from the athletic department says we are all in and will do whatever it takes to elevate the MSU football program. Tell me you have confidence we are going to walk into a stadium we have NEVER won in and then take a team we are statistically inferior to despite our easier SOS and then win our crappy bowl.

the stats between us and ole miss are basically equal, the talent is basically equal. we have all the intangibles favoring us next Thursday, and they don't match up well with Prescott. We can make them one dimensional I don't see Bo Wallace beating us with his arm alone. Arky we are just better than period.

[FlabLoser]

true but they also took LSU to the wire,

We took Auburn to the wire and gave Alabama a solid game.


beat their in state rival at home, and off a 2-10 season they went 7-6. we were off a 7-6 and went 8-5. let me make this clear I am not at all worried about ole miss.

Well that's good, we'll win the egg bowl too. Now you can say there's no dropoff from the 2009-10 era team.

[Coach34]

Tell me you have confidence we are going to walk into a stadium we have NEVER won in and then take a team we are statistically inferior to despite our easier SOS and then win our crappy bowl.

We've also never played a winless UPig in that stadium. One that has lost 13 of 14 SEC games

How can you not have confidence with the way we have played the last 5 weeks- winning 2 and then playing 3 top 11 teams well?

[The Croom Diaries]

Whoa whoa whoa....I'm cherry-picking?? Haha.

You're using a quote from Bill Parcells that 3 message board posters agreed to, to show what the new "motto" is....yet I'm "cherry-picking to meet an agenda"? Good grief, Mullen's balls are covering up your eyes.

I'm actually using FACTS and STATS from the last 16 games. We're 5-11.

Again, I'm not saying anything negative against Mullen...I'm even inching back towards being on board with him as coach. Just saying, if you're going to "be what your record says you are", then 5-11 over the last 16 is also what our record is.

I got shat on yesterday for picking out stats. Coach has been doing it for 3 weeks.

[CadaverDawg]

I generally agree when it pertains to us. The flip side of this coin though is why the hell the media gives two rats asses about OM. Freeze is 14-9 with only two quality wins if you count the egg bowl last season. Can you buy good media coverage???

Can you really not understand why?

Look, I'm one of the most die hard and passionate MSU fans on the planet, but I'm also realistic. If you can't understand why the media gives a rats ass about OM, then you are wearing maroon glasses. Freeze turned around a dumpster fire in year 1 and got them to a bowl game and won it. He followed that up with a Top 5 recruiting class. Then he goes out this year and has already matched their win total from last year with 3 games to play, not to mention beating a top 10 team, and taking another down to the wire.

Those are reasons OM is getting attention. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's not 100% agenda by the media. Now, they do have a media advantage no doubt, and the media will look completely different towards them if they lose to Mizzou and us in back to back weeks. But the bottom line is, our coach picked a shitty time to get complacent the last year and half while Freeze and the Rebels completely flipped the script on us.

These next two weeks are so important for us it's crazy. We need two wins and two OM losses. That would completely kill their momentum.

[The Croom Diaries]

What good teams did we we beat in '09 & '10 that we aren't beating now?

Kentucky went 7-6 in 09, 6-7 in 10.
Ole Miss was 9-4 in 09
Florida was 8-5 in 09
Georgia was 6-7 in 10

Plus: taking Upig to 2OT in 10 and nearly beating LSU in 09

Our last 9 SEC wins are against teams with a combined 8-62 SEC record. We've been fortunate to run into some dumpster fires.

[MadDawg]

I know everyone claims their being unhappy with our program has nothing to do with at least the perception of a rising program in oxford, but does anyone really believe that? Seriously?

Would there be AS MUCH negative noise about our program right now if the Bears were 4-6 or 3-7? No, I don't think so.

[Coach34]

true but they also took LSU to the wire, beat their in state rival at home, and off a 2-10 season they went 7-6. we were off a 7-6 and went 8-5.

they still lost 3 of their last 5- but you never hear about that. It's called spinning and perception

We should win these last 2 and move to a bowl- gotta get the job done

[cheewgumm]

We're gonna own Arkansas on their own field. They're terrible, and we're way better right now.

[codeDawg]

the stats between us and ole miss are basically equal, the talent is basically equal. we have all the intangibles favoring us next Thursday, and they don't match up well with Prescott. We can make them one dimensional I don't see Bo Wallace beating us with his arm alone. Arky we are just better than period.

No, they are the statistically superior team. It's not dramatic in all categories, but their offensive stats are about 30% better than ours and their defense is playing better as well. Facts here (http://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/matchup/rebels-bulldogs-week-14-2013). Now, I'll take our chances at home for the Egg Bowl and say we have a very good shot at it, but our chances of taking the next two are not great. I would feel much better if we had not given away the Auburn game. We should have won that one.

[Coach34]

Kentucky went 7-6 in 09, 6-7 in 10.
Ole Miss was 9-4 in 09
Florida was 8-5 in 09
Georgia was 6-7 in 10

Plus: taking Upig to 2OT in 10 and nearly beating LSU in 09

Our last 9 SEC wins are against teams with a combined 8-62 SEC record. We've been fortunate to run into some dumpster fires.

Or we have shown we are not going to turn into a dumpster fire. We win the last 2, we will still be only 1 of only 6 SEC teams to go to 4 straight bowl games. 6 of 14 teams

And I wish like hell we could play Florida now

[CadaverDawg]

I know everyone claims their being unhappy with our program has nothing to do with at least the perception of a rising program in oxford, but does anyone really believe that? Seriously?

Would there be AS MUCH negative noise about our program right now if the Bears were 4-6 or 3-7? No, I don't think so.

I do. Mullen raised the expectations around here. 4-6 with the potential of a losing record should always get negative attention in the SEC. Especially after going to 3 straight bowl games.

I can honestly say that my feelings toward Mullen have zero to do with ole miss. My feelings towards Mullen started last year when we looked like we mailed it in down the stretch. I can take a hard fought 4-8 against a brutal schedule way more than I can take a complacent 8-4 against a bunch of bad teams. I enjoyed basketball season and watching Rick Ray's squad give it all they had last year FAR more than I enjoyed watching our football team limp to the damn finish line.

Some people may worry about ole miss, and I do feel concerned about their recruiting....but at the end of the day, they don't have shit to do with Mullen. We play them once a year. And even after all the hype and hoopla, they could very well finish 1 game better than us with a loss to Mullen. So I don't understand why people would base their opinion of coaching on OM. If anything, that says we would have a stupid fan base, because it would mean we kick our feet up and get complacent when ole miss is down. Most of our fans that I know, aren't like that. We want to win, and try to progress the program...not just get comfortable and start accepting 6 wins per year and giving extensions to coaches for mediocrity.

Just my two cents though.

[engie]

I agree with you. However if we went 13-0 we would get respect that we are 13-0 but it would because everybody else were down or had injuries or something else. Well the SEC overall wasn't very good that year. We would get respect that would would have an * by it.

This is bs -- and the biggest dose of poor ole MSU I've seen on here in awhile...

Are they putting asterisks beside Mizzou this year because they caught the east at a lucky time? Hell no -- they are calling them dark horse title contenders just the same as they are calling Auburn.

We're not disrespected "because we're MSU" -- we are disrespected because WE CONSTANTLY PROVE THAT WE DESERVE NO RESPECT. No one would be making up bullshit to dismiss a 13-0 SEC team. Sorry -- they just wouldn't -- and the fact that you think this makes it hard to take anything else you say seriously.

There's not some grand media conspiracy to hold MSU down.

[DawgsBite34]

No, they are the statistically superior team. It's not dramatic in all categories, but their offensive stats are about 30% better than ours and their defense is playing better as well. Facts here (http://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/matchup/rebels-bulldogs-week-14-2013). Now, I'll take our chances at home for the Egg Bowl and say we have a very good shot at it, but our chances of taking the next two are not great. I would feel much better if we had not given away the Auburn game. We should have won that one.

Their defense is better??? than who's? Texas A&Ms????? State has a much much MUCH better defense than Ole Miss's. They have done just about as well as you could ask for this year except the 4th quarter vs LSU. Considering we have a coach that made just pure idiotic playcalls and couldn't give them any help, our defense would be way on up there statistically. We will take the run away from Ole Miss, make them one dimensional, Dak will hit their ass in the mouth and we'll win. IF we execute and Dan keeps coaching with some fire like he has recently. if you think TSUN has a better defense than State we are not watching the same games

[Coach34]

Whoa whoa whoa....I'm cherry-picking?? Haha.

You're using a quote from Bill Parcells that 3 message board posters agreed to, to show what the new "motto" is....yet I'm "cherry-picking to meet an agenda"? Good grief, Mullen's balls are covering up your eyes.

I'm actually using FACTS and STATS from the last 16 games. We're 5-11.



A) "Mullen's Balls"? Seriously? I've already said if he loses the last 2 games I want him fired. So stop with the bullshit.

B) Why not include the 7-0 part of last year? Why not include we were 4-4 in the SEC last year? You're cherry-picking for your agenda. You are talking about 2 different teams. Coach Ray is 5-1 in his last 6 basketball games- does that mean the basketball program is headed to contend for the SEC this year?

[DawgsBite34]

they still lost 3 of their last 5- but you never hear about that. It's called spinning and perception

We should win these last 2 and move to a bowl- gotta get the job done

I believe we will with Dakota and if Mullen doesn't go back to halfass coaching.

[codeDawg]

I know everyone claims their being unhappy with our program has nothing to do with at least the perception of a rising program in oxford, but does anyone really believe that? Seriously?

Would there be AS MUCH negative noise about our program right now if the Bears were 4-6 or 3-7? No, I don't think so.

Anyone who says it doesn't is full of shit. Of course it matters. These are the people we work with, we go to church with, we golf with. It does matter to us, and it matters to them.

I'm not sure I'm conveying my complaint well here. I'm not arguing Mullen lose his job. I'm arguing that he and the athletic department as a whole, find ways to compete better on the field and engage their fan base in a positive and meaningful way again. It just feels like they have been going through the motions for the past two years, and I'm over it.

Where is the dynamic marketing? Where are the engaging campaigns? Where is the attention on building positive game day experiences, promoting the positives of MSU, strengthening our culture as a school and as a fan base, organizing as a MSU family. That seems to have gone out the window. Now we just play ball games and hope people care.

[Coach34]

No, they are the statistically superior team. It's not dramatic in all categories, but their offensive stats are about 30% better than ours and their defense is playing better as well. .

Total Defense:

State- 373.9
OM- 373.7

That's pretty much a dead heat- and we have played a tougher schedule with 5 teams out of the top 12

They are a little better offensively due to their WR's- the trade-off is that we will be at home. Should be a real good football game.

[DawgsBite34]

We took Auburn to the wire and gave Alabama a solid game.



Well that's good, we'll win the egg bowl too. Now you can say there's no dropoff from the 2009-10 era team.

We had auburn on the ropes on the road and Mullen playcalled like shit down the stretch got way to conservative and cost us the game. I know if Lewis would've caught that 3rd and 13 its a totally different story but the defense gave our offense the ball 3 times at the 50 and we got 0 points. BC of playcalling.

Their is most definitely been a drop off since 2010. record wise, effort wise, by the whole ****ing program not just the coach. in 2009 and 2010 the administration was putting up billboards all kinds of shit. 2012 we had probably one of the most talented experienced teams we have ever had EVER and our coaches blew it. Chris Wilson was just pathetic. how in the hell do you have 2 starting NFL corners and you have that shitty of a defense.

[CadaverDawg]

A) "Mullen's Balls"? Seriously? I've already said if he loses the last 2 games I want him fired. So stop with the bullshit.

B) Why not include the 7-0 part of last year? Why not include we were 4-4 in the SEC last year? You're cherry-picking for your agenda. You are talking about 2 different teams. Coach Ray is 5-1 in his last 6 basketball games- does that mean the basketball program is headed to contend for the SEC this year?

Sorry about the balls part, but your trying to find sunshine in this shit constantly is getting horrible.

As for the second part, that is not cherry picked! It's the most recent 16 games we've played. It is no longer a fluke once it hits 16 games is it? Unfortunately looking at the last 6 games last year is FAR more reflective of what we are seeing now.

Don't get upset when I am only showing you recent facts. Far more recent than the distant 7-0, #WeBelieve, shit. What we are right now, is a team that has lost 11 of the last 16 and is in serious need of some wins and some positive momentum. No agenda, no spin, just facts.

[codeDawg]

Their defense is better??? than who's? Texas A&Ms????? State has a much much MUCH better defense than Ole Miss's. They have done just about as well as you could ask for this year except the 4th quarter vs LSU. Considering we have a coach that made just pure idiotic playcalls and couldn't give them any help, our defense would be way on up there statistically. We will take the run away from Ole Miss, make them one dimensional, Dak will hit their ass in the mouth and we'll win. IF we execute and Dan keeps coaching with some fire like he has recently. if you think TSUN has a better defense than State we are not watching the same games

We are very close, but they have played slightly better:

Defensive Stat Comparison


MISS
MSST


Opp Yards/Play
5.5
5.9


Opp Points/Play
0.371
0.422


Opp Completion %
63.97%
63.76%


Opp 3D Conv %
38.89%
36.44%


Opp RZ Scoring %
81.08%
89.66%

[Turner Center All Star]

Their defense is better??? than who's? Texas A&Ms????? State has a much much MUCH better defense than Ole Miss's.

statistically speaking. In all games, Ole Miss is giving up 374 ypg, 5.4 ypp, and 25.0 ppg. MSU is giving up 374 ypg, 5.8 ypp, and 26.5 ppg. In SEC-only play, Ole Miss is giving up 433 ypg, 6.1 ypp, and 29.8 ppg. MSU is giving up 429 ypg, 6.4 ypp, and 35.0 ppg. So, statistically speaking, they are close with Ole Miss having a slight edge in YPP allowed and PPG allowed. Of course, Ole Miss has a more challenging remaining schedule than MSU, so these could flip by the end of the season.

[engie]

Total Defense:

State- 373.9
OM- 373.7

That's pretty much a dead heat- and we have played a tougher schedule with 5 teams out of the top 12

They are a little better offensively due to their WR's- the trade-off is that we will be at home. Should be a real good football game.

The strength of schedule will be roughly identical going into the Egg Bowl.

[DawgsBite34]

statistically speaking. In all games, Ole Miss is giving up 374 ypg, 5.4 ypp, and 25.0 ppg. MSU is giving up 374 ypg, 5.8 ypp, and 26.5 ppg. In SEC-only play, Ole Miss is giving up 433 ypg, 6.1 ypp, and 29.8 ppg. MSU is giving up 429 ypg, 6.4 ypp, and 35.0 ppg. So, statistically speaking, they are close with Ole Miss having a slight edge in YPP allowed and PPG allowed. Of course, Ole Miss has a more challenging remaining schedule than MSU, so these could flip by the end of the season.

State has a better defense that Ole Miss. period. watch the games, we have more talent plus we're at home. I don't give a damn if they bring Patrick Willis back theyre gonna struggle with Dak

[HancockCountyDog]

Our last 9 SEC wins are against teams with a combined 8-62 SEC record. We've been fortunate to run into some dumpster fires.

If this stat is true, wow that is pretty amazing.

[Coach34]

nobody is saying we dont need wins- I'm just pointing out that people cant have it both ways. Either 8-4 was a good year and people need to stfu- or we really are a little better than our record, and should show it in these last 2 games. If we lose and dont make a bowl- then you guys are correct. If we win out and make a bowl for the 4th straight year- becoming just the 6th team out of 14 teams in the SEC to do that- then Mullen should get some damn credit. Being one of 6 means the program is in pretty damn good shape compared to others in the SEC

We'll see how it plays out.

[CadaverDawg]

nobody is saying we dont need wins- I'm just pointing out that people cant have it both ways. Either 8-4 was a good year and people need to stfu- or we really are a little better than our record, and should show it in these last 2 games. If we lose and dont make a bowl- then you guys are correct. If we win out and make a bowl for the 4th straight year- becoming just the 6th team out of 14 teams in the SEC to do that- then Mullen should get some damn credit. Being one of 6 means the program is in pretty damn good shape compared to others in the SEC

We'll see how it plays out.

I agree

[The Croom Diaries]

If this stat is true, wow that is pretty amazing.

I wouldn't write it if it wasn't.

Kentucky 10: 2-6
Ole Miss 10: 1-7
Kentucky 11: 2-6
Ole Miss 11: 0-8
Auburn 12: 0-8
Kentucky 12: 0-8
Tennessee 12: 1-7
Arkansas 12: 2-6
Kentucky 13: 0-6

[The Croom Diaries]

Or we have shown we are not going to turn into a dumpster fire. We win the last 2, we will still be only 1 of only 6 SEC teams to go to 4 straight bowl games. 6 of 14 teams

And I wish like hell we could play Florida now

Fair enough. Beating horrible teams is the signature of Mullen's tenure. So we sure as hell better beat Arkansas.

[LiterallyPolice]

I wouldn't write it if it wasn't.

Kentucky 10: 2-6
Ole Miss 10: 1-7
Kentucky 11: 2-6
Ole Miss 11: 0-8
Auburn 12: 0-8
Kentucky 12: 0-8
Tennessee 12: 1-7
Arkansas 12: 2-6
Kentucky 13: 0-6

What is the flip side of this? That is, what is the SEC record of teams that have beat us? I would imagine it's pretty darn good.

[codeDawg]

Fair enough. Beating horrible teams is the signature of Mullen's tenure. So we sure as hell better beat Arkansas.

Amen. A win in AR and an Egg Bowl victory would be a welcome result.

[The Croom Diaries]

What is the flip side of this? That is, what is the SEC record of teams that have beat us? I would imagine it's pretty darn good.

Since we beat UK in 2010 (Oct. 30) we have lost 17 SEC games to teams with a combined 97-33 record.

So since the UK game in 2010 (the last time we beat a ranked/SEC team w/ a winning record, Florida) we are 9-17. The wins have come against teams that are 8-62 (.114) and the losses against teams that were 97-33 (.746). We are right in the middle never losing to team with a SEC record less than 6-2 except to Ole Miss last year who was 3-5 and Auburn in 2011 who was 4-4 - which were the only games we were favored in. LSU will be 5-3 or 4-4 this year, and A&M could end up between 6-2 and 4-4.

[HancockCountyDog]

Mullen may not have raised the ceiling of the MSU program, but I think it's definitely a fair thing to say that he has raised the floor. The days of 2-3 win seasons are long gone. I also don't think 0 or 1 win SEC seasons are possible either.

He has proven to be consistent - now what level of consistency is probably an issue, but you can't argue that he hasn't at a minimum raised the floor of MSU football and that is no easy task.

In five years he has proven that he won't turn MSU into a dumpster fire. That may sound like a trivial point, but based on our current history, its not something to be glossed over.

[CadaverDawg]

Mullen may not have raised the ceiling of the MSU program, but I think it's definitely a fair thing to say that he has raised the floor. The days of 2-3 win seasons are long gone. I also don't think 0 or 1 win SEC seasons are possible either.

He has proven to be consistent - now what level of consistency is probably an issue, but you can't argue that he hasn't at a minimum raised the floor of MSU football and that is no easy task.

In five years he has proven that he won't turn MSU into a dumpster fire. That may sound like a trivial point, but based on our current history, its not something to be glossed over.

I agree.

Now, can he take that next step? That's what we're waiting to see.

[Sidewalkdawg]

It all has to do with expectations. When we started out at 8-0, we had great expectations from there, and any let down would me magnified. Ole miss was exactly the opposite last year. They had zero expectations, or at least the ones I work with, so anything positive was exaggerated too. When you step back, most logical people would rather have the overall season we had last year.

[CadaverDawg]

It all has to do with expectations. When we started out at 8-0, we had great expectations from there, and any let down would me magnified. Ole miss was exactly the opposite last year. They had zero expectations, or at least the ones I work with, so anything positive was exaggerated too. When you step back, most logical people would rather have the overall season we had last year.

It was 7-0, and I disagree. Most logical people could tell that Ole miss was rising while we were falling.

Mark my words, those same people that were saying "we had a better season last year because 8 wins is better than 7"....will be the same ones this year saying "well technically we had a better season than them because we ended the year winning and beat Ole miss...even though their record was one win better, we had the better year".

[Sidewalkdawg]

Your talking about momentum, and a week from now we should get that back

[Coach34]

We are right in the middle never losing to team with a SEC record less than 6-2 except to Ole Miss last year who was 3-5 and Auburn in 2011 who was 4-4 - which were the only games we were favored in. .

We were not favored last year vs OM. The only game Mullen has lost that we were favored in was at Auburn in 2011

[Sidewalkdawg]

A week from tomorrow actually.

[Coach34]

It was 7-0, and I disagree. Most logical people could tell that Ole miss was rising while we were falling.

Mark my words, those same people that were saying "we had a better season last year because 8 wins is better than 7"....will be the same ones this year saying "well technically we had a better season than them because we ended the year winning and beat Ole miss...even though their record was one win better, we had the better year".

Anybody that says that is a moron- the only way we could have a better season than OM this year is if they lose out and we win out. 7 wins each and we have the Egg

Only a dumb mf'er thinks 8-5 (4-4 in the SEC) and a Gator bowl was a worse season than 7-6 (3-5 in the SEC) and a shit bowl in B'ham. You would almost have to be a toothless methhead Gump to be stupid enough to think that

[CadaverDawg]

Anybody that says that is a moron- the only way we could have a better season than OM this year is if they lose out and we win out. 7 wins each and we have the Egg

Only a dumb mf'er thinks 8-5 (4-4 in the SEC) and a Gator bowl was a worse season than 7-6 (3-5 in the SEC) and a shit bowl in B'ham. You would almost have to be a toothless methhead Gump to be stupid enough to think that

Again, watch and see what happens if we win the last two and ole miss loses their last two....your ass will be the ring leader of "we had a better season!" Even though by your logic in this post, we didn't.

You probably won't do it now that I pointed it out, but just wait and see, several will.

But record does NOT always say who had the better season. Different competition equals different results, which equals no way to compare apples to apples. For instance, 8-4 with our schedule this year, is likely better than most any other SEC team going 9-3 and a better bowl. Because we have a much tougher schedule than most this year.

[HoopsDawg]

Anybody that says that is a moron- the only way we could have a better season than OM this year is if they lose out and we win out. 7 wins each and we have the Egg

Only a dumb mf'er thinks 8-5 (4-4 in the SEC) and a Gator bowl was a worse season than 7-6 (3-5 in the SEC) and a shit bowl in B'ham. You would almost have to be a toothless methhead Gump to be stupid enough to think that

I didn't enjoy our season last year at all. I enjoyed the UT game, that's it. All of the Ole Miss fans I know enjoyed the hell out of their season.

[Coach34]

Again, watch and see what happens if we win the last two and ole miss loses their last two....your ass will be the ring leader of "we had a better season!" Even though by your logic in this post, we didn't.

You probably won't do it now that I pointed it out, but just wait and see, several will..

You seriously need to stop speaking for me- you are terrible at it.

Anybody that thinks less wins are better than more wins is ****ing rahtard. End of story

[Coach34]

I didn't enjoy our season last year at all. .

If you cant enjoy 8 win seasons at Miss State- you wont ever be happy

[HoopsDawg]

You seriously need to stop speaking for me- you are terrible at it.

Anybody that thinks less wins are better than more wins is ****ing rahtard. End of story

You like Louisville's season this year better than our season in 2010?

[HoopsDawg]

If you cant enjoy 8 win seasons at Miss State- you wont ever be happy

wrong buddy, I enjoyed the hell out of our 5-7 season in Mullen's first year. We had tough non-conference. We beat the hell out of OM. We took LSU to the wire. That's was an enjoyable season to me. The product we have put on the field the last 3 years is not up to par.

[Homedawg]

Mullen may not have raised the ceiling of the MSU program, but I think it's definitely a fair thing to say that he has raised the floor. The days of 2-3 win seasons are long gone. I also don't think 0 or 1 win SEC seasons are possible either.

He has proven to be consistent - now what level of consistency is probably an issue, but you can't argue that he hasn't at a minimum raised the floor of MSU football and that is no easy task.

In five years he has proven that he won't turn MSU into a dumpster fire. That may sound like a trivial point, but based on our current history, its not something to be glossed over.

Well put

[CadaverDawg]

You seriously need to stop speaking for me- you are terrible at it.

Anybody that thinks less wins are better than more wins is ****ing rahtard. End of story

Haha, you have no clue then.

So by your logic, a Sunbelt team that wins 9 games is better than a SEC team that wins 8? Thanks for pointing out who the rahtard is.

[Coach34]

So by your logic, a Sunbelt team that wins 9 games is better than a SEC team that wins 8? Thanks for pointing out who the rahtard is.

Why are you changing conferences? Dont change the subject

4-4 in the SEC is better than 3-5 in the SEC
8 wins is > 7 wins
Gator Bowl > Shitty Birmingham bowl

If you cant understand that you are stupid and I cant help you

[engie]

The point is -- it's far more objective to measure "how good a team actually was" instead of just "how many wins they had".

[Political Hack]

Anybody that says that is a moron- the only way we could have a better season than OM this year is if they lose out and we win out. 7 wins each and we have the Egg

Only a dumb mf'er thinks 8-5 (4-4 in the SEC) and a Gator bowl was a worse season than 7-6 (3-5 in the SEC) and a shit bowl in B'ham. You would almost have to be a toothless methhead Gump to be stupid enough to think that

I would rather have 7 wins with one being them than 8 wins and a loss to them that let's them get in a bowl game. That said, that wouldn't mean we had a better season. it would just mean we won Mississippi... and this is still Our State.

[Coach34]

The point is -- it's far more objective to measure "how good a team actually was" instead of just "how many wins they had".

That's usually done when comparing teams from different conferences- Until last November, in my 44 years I've never heard people talk about a team from the same conference having a better season when they won fewer games overall as well as in conference, and then went to a worse bowl game.

[Coach34]

I would rather have 7 wins with one being them than 8 wins and a loss to them that let's them get in a bowl game. That said, that wouldn't mean we had a better season.

Of course it wouldnt- there would be no way to justify it

[ShotgunDawg]

Just wanted to be the 100th post in this thread.

What do I win?

[CadaverDawg]

The point is -- it's far more objective to measure "how good a team actually was" instead of just "how many wins they had".

Exactly

[engie]

That's usually done when comparing teams from different conferences- Until last November, in my 44 years I've never heard people talk about a team from the same conference having a better season when they won fewer games overall as well as in conference, and then went to a worse bowl game.

And you'd never seen a 14 team league with crazily unbalanced schedules either. There is far less parity in the schedules now -- a fact that is undeniable.

The only reason they won fewer games than us is because they lost to a 9-win Vanderbilt and 12-win Georgia team -- while we beat a 2-10 Kentucky and 5-7 Tennessee. Such is the luck of scheduling now with 14 teams.

Find me any end of season unbiased ranking metric that says we were a better team than Ole Miss last year -- because EVERY unbiased metric I've seen had them as better than us. I'm a big fan of using the computer metrics to determine "how good a team actually was". I think it's the best/most accurate method going.

[Coach34]

Find me any end of season unbiased ranking metric that says we were a better team than Ole Miss last year -- because EVERY unbiased metric I've seen had them as better than us...Sagarin had them at 24th and us at 42nd for instance.

I dont have to find shit

4-4 in the SEC is better than 3-5 in the SEC
8 wins is > 7 wins
Gator Bowl > Shitty Birmingham bowl

Those are all the metrics needed

If you cant understand that you are stupid and I cant help you

[Coach34]

And you'd never seen a 14 team league with crazily unbalanced schedules either. There is far less parity in the schedules now -- a fact that is undeniable.

The only reason they won fewer games than us is because they lost to a 9-win Vanderbilt and 12-win Georgia team -- while we beat a 2-10 Kentucky and 5-7 Tennessee. Such is the luck of scheduling now with 14 teams.

By your logic- A&M had a better season than Bama last year

A&M beat Bama
Bama played Mizzou and Tenn- both had losing records....but A&M had to play Sugar Bowl team Florida from the East- making it an unfair schedule
Only 1 loss difference between the teams

A&M had a better season than the National Champs...good to know

[HoopsDawg]

I dont have to find shit


If you cant understand that you are stupid and I cant help you

Uh oh, name calling. The tell-tale sign of someone losing an argument and knowing it.

[Dallas_Dawg]

This is a long, stupid, and pointless thread. Our biggest game of the year is Saturday. Let's hear about that

[bluelightstar]

I dont have to find shit

4-4 in the SEC is better than 3-5 in the SEC
8 wins is > 7 wins
Gator Bowl > Shitty Birmingham bowl

Those are all the metrics needed

If you cant understand that you are stupid and I cant help you

None of those things are relevant to who was a better team. You are literally doing with last year what you accuse people of doing with this year.

[Will James]

If you cant enjoy 8 win seasons at Miss State- you wont ever be happy

Enjoyment comes from signs of hope. Enjoyment comes from overcoming tension. Putting out a dumpster fire does not provoke these feelings. Tennessee was enjoyable.

But compared to the absolute unenjoyable nature of A&M, Bama, LSU, OM, and NW the nature of our badness vastly outweighed any semblance of good. Expected wins and big game beat downs don't do it for me even if we have 8 wins! 8 wins!

[Dawgface]

Uh oh, name calling. The tell-tale sign of someone losing an argument and knowing it.

It also tells something about the character of the poster.

[engie]

I dont have to find shit

4-4 in the SEC is better than 3-5 in the SEC
8 wins is > 7 wins
Gator Bowl > Shitty Birmingham bowl

Those are all the metrics needed

If you cant understand that you are stupid and I cant help you

You haven't adequately or accurately refuted a thing I said. You don't want to look at the unbiased metrics because you already know that you don't like what they tell you.

You could argue that "MSU had a better season" last year -- and I might agree. But you'd have to be deaf, blind, and stupid to say MSU had a better TEAM last year. This was proven with an exclamation point on the field --- and in practically EVERY UNBIASED COMPUTER METRIC OUT THERE.

That's what I said already -- and backtracking to preschool logic and namecalling doesn't change a thing about it.

By your logic, Florida 2010 > MSU 2010 because Outback Bowl > Gator Bowl and 4-4 SEC = 4-4 SEC. So, the better team gets the better bowl, right?

[HoopsDawg]

You haven't adequately or accurately refuted a thing I said. You don't want to look at the unbiased metrics because you already know that you don't like what they tell you.

You could argue that "MSU had a better season" last year -- and I might agree. But you'd have to be deaf, blind, and stupid to say MSU had a better TEAM last year. This was proven with an exclamation point on the field --- and in practically EVERY UNBIASED COMPUTER METRIC OUT THERE.

That's what I said already -- and backtracking to preschool logic and namecalling doesn't change a thing about it.

By your logic, Florida 2010 > MSU 2010 because Outback Bowl > Gator Bowl and 4-4 SEC = 4-4 SEC. So, the better team gets the better bowl, right?

damn, this thread is a beatdown. Let's take it easy on Coach, he seems to be having a bad betting season.

[PassInterference]

Enjoyment comes from signs of hope. Enjoyment comes from overcoming tension. Putting out a dumpster fire does not provoke these feelings. Tennessee was enjoyable.

But compared to the absolute unenjoyable nature of A&M, Bama, LSU, OM, and NW the nature of our badness vastly outweighed any semblance of good. Expected wins and big game beat downs don't do it for me even if we have 8 wins! 8 wins!

Streaks factor heavily also. Last year was frustrating because most all the games we lost were consecutive losses.

Look at OM this year. With a few losses in a row they were poring gasoline into dumpsters.

[engie]

By your logic- A&M had a better season than Bama last year

A&M beat Bama
Bama played Mizzou and Tenn- both had losing records....but A&M had to play Sugar Bowl team Florida from the East- making it an unfair schedule
Only 1 loss difference between the teams

A&M had a better season than the National Champs...good to know

Uh -- NO.

Good job of leaving off BY FAR the most important part of my analysis to try to fit your ridiculous agenda though.

By EVERY unbiased computer metric out there, Alabama was superior to aTm. Much in the same way that Ole Miss was superior to us in every unbiased metric. The lowest Bama was in ANY computer metric out there = #3. They were ranked ahead of aTm in 123 of 124 computer metrics shown on the Massey composite...
http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/arch/compare2012-15.htm

[CadaverDawg]

I dont have to find shit

4-4 in the SEC is better than 3-5 in the SEC
8 wins is > 7 wins
Gator Bowl > Shitty Birmingham bowl

Those are all the metrics needed

If you cant understand that you are stupid and I cant help you

http://expresswithgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/nicholas.gif

[Coach34]

You could argue that "MSU had a better season" last year -- and I might agree.

Ummmm- wtf am I missing? This is what I've been saying?

I said "Only a dumb mf'er thinks 8-5 (4-4 in the SEC) and a Gator bowl was a worse season than 7-6 (3-5 in the SEC) and a shit bowl in B'ham. You would almost have to be a toothless methhead Gump to be stupid enough to think that

Then I said "Anybody that thinks less wins are better than more wins is ****ing rahtard"

Thanks for finally agreeing we had the better season....took you long enough. I havent one time said we were the better team. Some of you need to learn to read.

[Coach34]

Uh -- NO.

Good job of leaving off BY FAR the most important part of my analysis to try to fit your ridiculous agenda though.

By EVERY unbiased computer metric out there, Alabama was superior to aTm. Much in the same way that Ole Miss was superior to us in every unbiased metric. The lowest Bama was in ANY computer metric out there = #3. They were ranked ahead of aTm in 123 of 124 computer metrics shown on the Massey composite...
http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/arch/compare2012-15.htm

Nooooo- I used the unbalanced SEC schedule that you used to measure State and Ole Miss. You brought up the unbalanced schedule- not me. Dont get mad when it doesnt work out like you wanted.

[Coach34]

damn, this thread is a beatdown. Let's take it easy on Coach, he seems to be having a bad betting season.

beatdown? He just ****ing agreed with the point I was making. Game Over.

[engie]

Nooooo- I used the unbalanced SEC schedule that you used to measure State and Ole Miss. You brought up the unbalanced schedule- not me. Dont get mad when it doesnt work out like you wanted.

You mean when you go to twisting shit by omitting the ENTIRE BASIS of my point to fit your agenda?

Where did I bring up unbalanced schedules without also bringing up the FACT THAT COMPUTER METRICS BECOME THE BEST WAY TO MEASURE THE ACTUAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN TEAMS with hugely unbalanced schedules?

And you are bitching about MY reading comprehension? Seems to me that someone else needs to "learn to ****ing read".

[Coach34]

wow- that's why you and the BCS are so flawed. It doesnt take a computer to see who had the best season.

Less wins, less conference wins, and a lower bowl means better season. Gotcha
Unbalanced schedule matters when its State-Ole Miss- but not when it's Bama-A&M

[engie]

wow- that's why you and the BCS are so flawed. It doesnt take a computer to see who had the best season.

Less wins, less conference wins, and a lower bowl means better season. Gotcha

LOL -- "me and the bcs are so flawed" huh?

Coach34 -- Smarter than MATH!

We should just drop to C-USA so we can have "better seasons" by Coach34 standards...

[Coach34]

LOL -- "me and the bcs are so flawed" huh?

Coach34 -- Smarter than MATH!

We should just drop to C-USA so we can have "better seasons" by Coach34 standards...

what does Conference USA have to do with it? We are talking about the same ******* conference????

Nobody is saying a 10 win Big East team had a better season than a 9 win SEC team- But when you have 2 teams in the SAME conference and one team finishes with more wins, more conference wins, and goes to a better bowl- they had a better season. It's ridiculous to say otherwise.

Say it out loud:

"Well, they didnt win as many games, and they finished lower in the conference standings, and they went to a worse bowl- but they had the better season!!!!!!"

[Will James]

what does Conference USA have to do with it? We are talking about the same ******* conference????


If we played each and every team in the conference you would have a point BUT WE DONT!!!!!!!!!!

[CadaverDawg]

If we played each and every team in the conference you would have a point BUT WE DONT!!!!!!!!!!

Bingo. Why the hell can everybody see this except him?

If Ole miss plays Alabama and Missouri and we play Arkansas and Kentucky, we're better than them if we go 2-0 and they go 1-1. #Coach34Logic

[Coach34]

If we played each and every team in the conference you would have a point BUT WE DONT!!!!!!!!!!

ok- and why A&M had a better season than Bama I guess...thanks for the info

[HoopsDawg]

Bingo. Why the hell can everybody see this except him?

Coach34Logic

It's really hard to admit when you are wrong. Especially on a message board.

[Will James]

Bingo. Why the hell can everybody see this except him?

If Ole miss plays Alabama and Missouri and we play Arkansas and Kentucky, we're better than them if we go 2-0 and they go 1-1. #Coach34Logic

You forgot to add Bama embarrassing us like OM did as well.

Coach would actually have a somewhat coherent point if, and it's a big IF, we didn't get blasted in ALL OF OUR LOSSES. Yeah, we had shitty teams on the schedule to get us 8 wins but if we competed against the other 5 it would show us to be a good team, but we didn't. We got run off of the field. Thats what he is burying his head and "la la la la I cant hear you la la la" about.

[Coach34]

If Ole miss plays Alabama and Missouri and we play Arkansas and Kentucky, we're better than them if we go 2-0 and they go 1-1. #Coach34Logic

Where did I say we were better than them???

In your scenario- who had the better overall record, who had the better conference record, and who went to the better bowl??? That will tell you who had the better season

[Will James]

That will tell you who had the better season

Do you feel pride over this? Knowing we weren't the better team? Seems a little nanny-nanny-boo-booish

[CadaverDawg]

Where did I say we were better than them???

In your scenario- who had the better overall record, who had the better conference record, and who went to the better bowl??? That will tell you who had the better season

Like I said...by your logic, MSU would have the better season in the above scenario. You said it yourself...two SEC teams, one with better overall record AND conference record....... 2-0>1-1

[CadaverDawg]

Do you feel pride over this? Knowing we weren't the better team? Seems a little nanny-nanny-boo-booish

No, he was just getting destroyed in the argument, so the best way to not admit you're wrong is to find a little detail you can key in on to try and spin your original point.

I've tried it myself. Works great unless everybody knows you're doing it. Ha

[Coach34]

No, he was just getting destroyed in the argument, so the best way to not admit you're wrong is to find a little detail you can key in on to try and spin your original point.

Where was I wrong?

Engie even agreed we had the better season