Had Cohen simply hired at good to competent coach post Don

[donald igwebuike]

We wouldn't be bickering (as much) about Egg Bowl, Memphis, and a few other games.

2018's better results would have been a spring board for better recruiting.

[Cooterpoot]

It's true. We'd be in year 4 and know exactly what we've got. Leach year 4 would be interesting. But, year 4 for Leach is setting up nicely. The schedule is simple and we'll have more talent than we've had in awhile. The only thing is we wasted a great defense in 18. That haunts us.

[StarkVegasSteve]

It's true. We'd be in year 4 and know exactly what we've got. Leach year 4 would be interesting. But, year 4 for Leach is setting up nicely. The schedule is simple and we'll have more talent than we've had in awhile. The only thing is we wasted a great defense in 18. That haunts us.

That defense of 18 will never be replicated. The sheer amount of talent on that side of the ball was just staggering. Simmons, Sweat, Abram, Gay, and Dantzler are obviously the NFL guys but you had great college players like Braxton Hoyett, Erroll, Gerri Green, Mark McLaurin, and Jamal Peters. Just a stupid amount of talent.

[Really Clark?]

That defense of 18 will never be replicated. The sheer amount of talent on that side of the ball was just staggering. Simmons, Sweat, Abram, Gay, and Dantzler are obviously the NFL guys but you had great college players like Braxton Hoyett, Erroll, Gerri Green, Mark McLaurin, and Jamal Peters. Just a stupid amount of talent.

Gerri Green is still in the NFL

[Leeshouldveflanked]

I was on the Neal Brown bandwagon when Dan left, but he hasn?t done so hot at WV. I think Cohen tried to replicate what the Ninja did hiring Mullen with Morehead, but it didn?t work out.

[MetEdDawg]

Here's the thing. Name the possible hires we could have gotten that are absolutely rocking it out right now making Cohen look stupid for not hiring them.

I don't see it. I see why Moorhead was hired. But a lot of the names at the time that were options aren't exactly lighting it up right now.

[chef dixon]

Been through this discussion many times. Moorhead on paper was a good hire. It didn't work out. Neither did anyone else who got hired that year.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

One consensus Stricklin can suck rotten eggs.

[Todd4State]

Here's the thing. Name the possible hires we could have gotten that are absolutely rocking it out right now making Cohen look stupid for not hiring them.

I don't see it. I see why Moorhead was hired. But a lot of the names at the time that were options aren't exactly lighting it up right now.

Mike Leach

[dawgday166]

Mullen was hired that year by FL. That was a home run hire ****

[DownwardDawg]

Been through this discussion many times. Moorhead on paper was a good hire. It didn't work out. Neither did anyone else who got hired that year.

Agree. JoMo looked like the best hire of the bunch.

[Quaoarsking]

I hate to say this, but the optimal hire for the 2018 season was ... Lane Kiffin.

He would have been coming off an 11-3 season at FAU and surely would have taken the job rather than staying there. He would have taken us to 10-2 or better in the 2018 regular season, and would have left after 1 or 2 years, in which case we can bring in Leach without having such a huge culture problem.

But it's a lot more obvious in hindsight than it was at the time, that's for sure.

[dawgday166]

I hate to say this, but the optimal hire for the 2018 season was ... Lane Kiffin.

He would have been coming off an 11-3 season at FAU and surely would have taken the job rather than staying there. He would have taken us to 10-2 or better in the 2018 regular season, and would have left after 1 or 2 years, in which case we can bring in Leach without having such a huge culture problem.

But it's a lot more obvious in hindsight than it was at the time, that's for sure.

Kiffin probably does better than 10-2 with that team, depending on who the coordinators were. But then he'd be gone at a minimum after this year and probably after the 2018 year or the next.

[PGHBulldogBG]

If Miami opens then I think Kiffin bolts. It doesn?t seem as though a lot of the blue bloods are jumping at him though. I think the hesitation is that he is another Houston Nutt which I agree. He never stays long enough to see what he can do at a program for more than 2 years. ADs probably want to see what he can do with a team longer than a year or two. He is not a great recruiter and I think if he stays at Ole Miss his coaching abilities will show by the end of 2023. I?ll be curious to see how he does with a talent deficit and youth the next 2 years.

[MetEdDawg]

Mike Leach

I know Arkansas and Tennessee kicked the tires on that during that time frame.

My question is, do you really think this fan base could have handled the hiring of Mike Leach directly after Dan Mullen? We've had a whole bunch freak out after the Moorhead disaster. With a defense like we knew we had, I think this fan base would have revolted bringing in a guy like Leach who would have brought the 3-3-5 and his reputation.

[Fader21]

I agree that Cohen made the hottest named hire. Everyone thought Joe Moorhead was the best pick. Hell, he still is an offensive genius. I hate it didn't work out.

[RougeDawg]

In the end I believe it will all work itself out. In life you don?t always get what you want, you get what you need or supposed to have. Some times that means hard times and some suffering. But In the end you come out the other side stronger.

To me that?s what occurred hiring Sloppy Joe and where we are now. It took a little pain and suffering through a wasted 2018 team and our LB knocking our starting QB out during bowl practice to make changes that should be beneficial long term. Time will tell but things usually end up as they were supposed to when you learn from your mistakes and make every attempt to avoid them in the future.

I went into this season with zero expectations except wanting to see a more cohesive offensive unit. If that happened the wins would come. When the offense wasn?t clicking, there would be losses. Wanted to see progress and less confusion. And I think we got that. Keep building and bringing in skill guys and this thing will be hell on wings the next year or two. Have faith.

[Cooterpoot]

I agree that Cohen made the hottest named hire. Everyone thought Joe Moorhead was the best pick. Hell, he still is an offensive genius. I hate it didn't work out.

Uhh, not true at all

[TrapGame]

I agree that Cohen made the hottest named hire. Everyone thought Joe Moorhead was the best pick. Hell, he still is an offensive genius. I hate it didn't work out.

Offensive geniuses do not put that level of steaming excrement on the field for two years. Saquon Barclay made Joe look a lot better than he really is.

[BrunswickDawg]

Let's look at some of the major hires that year:

Scott Frost - 15-29 at Nebraska - BUST
Jimbo Fisher - 34-14 at A&M - good, but not for the $ he's getting
Chip Kelly - 17-25 at UCLA, finally got a winning record in year 4 - 7-4 - never would consider MSU
Mario Cristobal - 34-12 at Oregon - never would consider coming to MSU
Willie Taggert - 9-12 at FSU - disaster hire and fired in 2.
Chad Morris - 4-18 at Arkansas - disaster hire and fired in 2.
Kevin Sumlin - 9-20 at Arizona - disaster hire and fired in 3.
Jeremy Pruitt - 16-19 at Tenn - bad hire and fired in 3 years.
Steve Campbell - 9-26 at South Alabama - fired in 3 years.
Billy Napier - 38-12 at La La - would have been seen as a joke of a hire at the time.
Sonny Dykes - 30-17 at SMU - could make an argument that he would have been a good hire at State - but would have had a big adjustment to his offense just like Leach.
Josh Heupel - went 28-8 at UCF and 6-5 at UT - would he have worked at MSU?

Dykes and Heupel are really the only two who might of considered an MSU offer who turned out as strong hires. Moorhead was seen as an A hire by MSU amongst these moves. Hiring a coach is a crap shoot.

[thf24]

Offensive geniuses do not put that level of steaming excrement on the field for two years. Saquon Barclay made Joe look a lot better than he really is.

It showed some signs of life when he kept things simple and went run heavy. I think the issue was that he usually tried to go full playbook wide open with no regard for personnel or experience, and hardly anyone knew what the hell they were doing.

It wouldn't matter if the offense had taken off from the start though, the fact that Joe didn't have a clue how to run a D1 major program would have caught up to him regardless.

[memsu06]

I still think Mike Leach is the perfect hire for MSU. You don't have to worry about other programs poaching him. He's here to prove his offense is still effective and he can get it done in the SEC.

We have an advantage that our offense and defense is something other teams don't get to see every week. I believe there's a reason we have Arnett. I also think Arnett likes being under Leach and I think he likes Starkville as a place for his family.

The pieces are coming together. We need to hit the transfer portal to fill some holes, but I'm sure they'll find the right guys.

Sure the EB loss sucked, but we were playing the #9 team in the country and our receivers decided to have their worst game all season. What I saw was a young team making mistakes. Give this bunch a couple of years and I think we do something MSU has never done in football.

[viverlibre]

Had we hired Leach in 2018, 2018's results would have been worse than JoMo's; however, it we stuck with Leach, this season would have been 9-10 wins.

[viverlibre]

Let's look at some of the major hires that year:

Scott Frost - 15-29 at Nebraska - BUST
Jimbo Fisher - 34-14 at A&M - good, but not for the $ he's getting
Chip Kelly - 17-25 at UCLA, finally got a winning record in year 4 - 7-4 - never would consider MSU
Mario Cristobal - 34-12 at Oregon - never would consider coming to MSU
Willie Taggert - 9-12 at FSU - disaster hire and fired in 2.
Chad Morris - 4-18 at Arkansas - disaster hire and fired in 2.
Kevin Sumlin - 9-20 at Arizona - disaster hire and fired in 3.
Jeremy Pruitt - 16-19 at Tenn - bad hire and fired in 3 years.
Steve Campbell - 9-26 at South Alabama - fired in 3 years.
Billy Napier - 38-12 at La La - would have been seen as a joke of a hire at the time.
Sonny Dykes - 30-17 at SMU - could make an argument that he would have been a good hire at State - but would have had a big adjustment to his offense just like Leach.
Josh Heupel - went 28-8 at UCF and 6-5 at UT - would he have worked at MSU?

Dykes and Heupel are really the only two who might of considered an MSU offer who turned out as strong hires. Moorhead was seen as an A hire by MSU amongst these moves. Hiring a coach is a crap shoot.

Napier would have been considered a good hire, right? Didn't much of the fanbase (including Cohen) want him?

[TNDawg35]

You heard it here first… Riley to LSU and Huepel to Oklahoma…

[PikeDawg15]

You heard it here first? Riley to LSU and Huepel to Oklahoma?

I?m patiently waiting to see what Miami does

[WhiskeyPirate]

You heard it here first… Riley to LSU and Huepel to Oklahoma…

That sounds logical

[chef dixon]

You heard it here first… Riley to LSU and Huepel to Oklahoma…

Heupel would have OU ready to hit the ground running in the SEC

[PikeDawg15]

Heupel would have OU ready to hit the ground running in the SEC

Poor Tennessee

[BrunswickDawg]

Napier would have been considered a good hire, right? Didn't much of the fanbase (including Cohen) want him?

That was after 2 years at La La. When we hired JoMo, Napier was 38 year old coach who had been fired at Clemson as OC and was coming off of 1 season as OC under his belt at Arizona State (They went 7-6 and Todd Harrell was fired.) If we had hired him with zero HC experience our fan base would have melted down.

[WinningIsRelentless]

Poor Tennessee

Mullen to TN

[WhiskeyPirate]

Mullen to TN

Mullen* next move will be interesting. He’s still a good coach IMO. Tennessee always 17s up their hires unless they’ve finally kicked fat Phil out of the process

[parabrave]

That was after 2 years at La La. When we hired JoMo, Napier was 38 year old coach who had been fired at Clemson as OC and was coming off of 1 season as OC under his belt at Arizona State (They went 7-6 and Todd Harrell was fired.) If we had hired him with zero HC experience our fan base would have melted down.

LSU Poscaster said we offered Napier and he turned us and another college down. I don't really believe that

[preachermatt83]

We will win 7 or 8 next year with a shot at 10 the next year.

[preachermatt83]

I still think Mike Leach is the perfect hire for MSU. You don't have to worry about other programs poaching him. He's here to prove his offense is still effective and he can get it done in the SEC.

We have an advantage that our offense and defense is something other teams don't get to see every week. I believe there's a reason we have Arnett. I also think Arnett likes being under Leach and I think he likes Starkville as a place for his family.

The pieces are coming together. We need to hit the transfer portal to fill some holes, but I'm sure they'll find the right guys.

Sure the EB loss sucked, but we were playing the #9 team in the country and our receivers decided to have their worst game all season. What I saw was a young team making mistakes. Give this bunch a couple of years and I think we do something MSU has never done in football.

Post more!

[Cooterpoot]

It's all working out for us. Just taking longer than it should. But let's be honest, Mullen left us little on the offensive side.

[PikeDawg15]

Recruiting looking pretty good , we moved into the top 25

[LC Dawg]

If we had hired Mike Leach after Mullen we would be reading multiple posts tonight about how it's great to win 10 this year but let's don't forget about how Leach ****ed up and wasted that 2018 defense.

[dawgday166]

If we had hired Mike Leach after Mullen we would be reading multiple posts tonight about how it's great to win 10 this year but let's don't forget about how Leach ****ed up and wasted that 2018 defense.

I think we win 10 minimum with Leach in 2018. Leach ain't gonna waste good talent and that team had it on both sides of ball.

[LC Dawg]

I think we win 10 minimum with Leach in 2018. Leach ain't gonna waste good talent and that team had it on both sides of ball.

There's no chance we win 10 games with Leach in 2018. The offensive personnel wasn't there and Leach isn't changing.

[Quaoarsking]

There's no chance we win 10 games with Leach in 2018. The offensive personnel wasn't there and Leach isn't changing.

Depends on how the QB sorts itself out. If Minshew is our QB, we probably win 11 games or more.

[dawgday166]

There's no chance we win 10 games with Leach in 2018. The offensive personnel wasn't there and Leach isn't changing.

Well, I think he starts Aeris over Hill. I think our receivers actually catch the ball when Fitz hits them in the hands, which he did a lot early in season in losses to KY and FL. Guidry missed several crucial 3rd down passes and Mitchell drops a sure TD against FL. And they would've gotten separation better too. Aeris would have kept him from getting killed so much too. And I also think that while Fitz would maybe not see the field as quickly as Will, his legs would save him a lot. You would've seen more TAM type games from him IMO. And we had a pretty good Oline that would've been even better under Leach.

All we needed was a few more points in 4 games. I think Leach could've done that and we still had the D personnel. I think Leach could've dealt with the personnel on hand myself. We might've been short the quantity of receivers tho. But like I said we just needed a few more points in 4 games and Leach is by far a better coach than JoMo.

[Todd4State]

I know Arkansas and Tennessee kicked the tires on that during that time frame.

My question is, do you really think this fan base could have handled the hiring of Mike Leach directly after Dan Mullen? We've had a whole bunch freak out after the Moorhead disaster. With a defense like we knew we had, I think this fan base would have revolted bringing in a guy like Leach who would have brought the 3-3-5 and his reputation.

I think initially it would have been met with some angst. Our fans are "nice" and we all wanted to see Fitzgerald have a strong senior season after his ankle injury. No way he sits Leach's offense and he would have to have transferred out and I don't think Dan would have taken him at Florida to be honest. Could be wrong about that. We would have gotten Gardner Minchew and our fans would have raised eyebrows about that initially. Grantham ran a 3-4 so the 3-3-5 wouldn't have been that big of a deal. We probably would have had to make Leo Lewis a back up at MLB.

I think Minchew would have done better than Costello did and we would have had some first year issues like we did last year with Leach but I think our defense would have been good enough to overcome them most of the time.

[Offshore Dawg]

If Miami opens then I think Kiffin bolts. It doesn?t seem as though a lot of the blue bloods are jumping at him though. I think the hesitation is that he is another Houston Nutt which I agree. He never stays long enough to see what he can do at a program for more than 2 years. ADs probably want to see what he can do with a team longer than a year or two. He is not a great recruiter and I think if he stays at Ole Miss his coaching abilities will show by the end of 2023. I?ll be curious to see how he does with a talent deficit and youth the next 2 years.

I would suspect that the network will be busy in the portal buying a team.

[WhiskeyPirate]

Minshew was a great college q b. He’s also a good pro. He was mobile, could make all the throws, and was just a natural at running the air raid as a mature grad transfer.

He was not a running q b, but he was very difficult to sack. Quick feet great pocket awareness. Without a blizzard he would have been 12-1.

[BrunswickDawg]

Minshew was a great college q b. He’s also a good pro. He was mobile, could make all the throws, and was just a natural at running the air raid as a mature grad transfer.

He was not a running q b, but he was very difficult to sack. Quick feet great pocket awareness. Without a blizzard he would have been 12-1.

But remember - Wazzu was an established Air Road school with a team full of players recruited for the system and acclimated to the system. Minshew only had to get up to speed. If Leach and Minshew come here for '18 the result is a lot like last year - a team full of guys not recruited for the air raid with no clue how to run it. We had a hard enough time learning the RPO, no way those guys learn the air raid.

[dawgday166]

But remember - Wazzu was an established Air Road school with a team full of players recruited for the system and acclimated to the system. Minshew only had to get up to speed. If Leach and Minshew come here for '18 the result is a lot like last year - a team full of guys not recruited for the air raid with no clue how to run it. We had a hard enough time learning the RPO, no way those guys learn the air raid.

You may be right about this. The biggest acclimation would've been in Oline blocking and splits probably. But we also struggled with pass blocking under Moorhead too. Leach might could've ended up with a similar record as Moorhead. But I still remember all those key drops in early games then with fans getting all over and blaming Fitz and him losing his confidence. And Hill not blocking LBs.

It's all pretty moot now. Kinda hard to tell what would've really happened in 2018 had Leach been hired. I do believe we would be further along at this point in time now tho. We'll see how next year and 2023 turns out.