Arkansas - How do we attack a defense that wants to play drop 8 zone?

[Lord McBuckethead]

Conversations on this board has been lacking this week.
Arkansas really made us put on the brakes last year. It was the end of the beginning phase for Mike Leach at MSU. It almost did us a favor in a way. The LSU game made our offense look invincible with solid QB play throwing against man to man every play. Then Arkansas came in and limited us to 4 yard pass plays and we were the ones that couldn't remain patient. Since then, our offense has grown leaps and bounds. Building off of a smaller offensive attack, plugging away for the next 13 games or so. Then, then, then something started to click. We were showing more patience. We were starting to run the ball as called run plays. Getting linebackers to stay home on inside runs. I would argue that the NC State game was the first game were we actually were showing patience and taking what they were giving with enthusiasm. Also, everytime they switched to man we torched them. Then aTm, same thing.

Then the Kentucky game. Our entire game plan was perfect and worked to perfection. Not to mention our defense was +4 in the turnover margin. That was the most complete game under Leach we have played.

Now we circle back to Arkansas. Very physical team. Could be trouble. I think, if we keep the TO margin to 0 or maybe +1, and we operate our offense with patience, we win this game on the road. Defense will have to be solid against this hard hitting bunch, but they are looking to rebound. We just need to remind them they are Arkansas, just like we did to Kentucky.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

Run 30 times at them and open up those crossers to walley for 30 us gains.

[SailingDawg]

RTDFB

[PikeDawg15]

Run the ball down their throat on drop 8 and they will either have to account for the run or give up 7-8 yard rushes every play

[Santiago]

Don't throw pick 6's, and Int's like last year. Costello just got the yips real bad. Also our O-line will be able to handle their 3 man front if they drop 8, but last year were still figuring out communication.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

And then when they jump to man, punish them ala RaRas TD against UK.

[PikeDawg15]

If you open up that run game on the first drive and they have to account for it, then you hit makai polk for a 30 yard td pass and you have the momentum

[TrapGame]

If Odom just drops 8, rushes 3 and doesn't do anything else we'll win by two touchdowns. Elko and White tried mixing in some man and some safety blitzes but Will did a good job of picking those up. Like Chizik said Saturday night, "Just dropping 8 and you stop Mike Leach is a myth."

[Johnson85]

Conversations on this board has been lacking this week.
Arkansas really made us put on the brakes last year. It was the end of the beginning phase for Mike Leach at MSU. It almost did us a favor in a way. The LSU game made our offense look invincible with solid QB play throwing against man to man every play. Then Arkansas came in and limited us to 4 yard pass plays and we were the ones that couldn't remain patient. Since then, our offense has grown leaps and bounds. Building off of a smaller offensive attack, plugging away for the next 13 games or so. Then, then, then something started to click. We were showing more patience. We were starting to run the ball as called run plays. Getting linebackers to stay home on inside runs. I would argue that the NC State game was the first game were we actually were showing patience and taking what they were giving with enthusiasm. Also, everytime they switched to man we torched them. Then aTm, same thing.

Then the Kentucky game. Our entire game plan was perfect and worked to perfection. Not to mention our defense was +4 in the turnover margin. That was the most complete game under Leach we have played.

Now we circle back to Arkansas. Very physical team. Could be trouble. I think, if we keep the TO margin to 0 or maybe +1, and we operate our offense with patience, we win this game on the road. Defense will have to be solid against this hard hitting bunch, but they are looking to rebound. We just need to remind them they are Arkansas, just like we did to Kentucky.

I think we've pretty much shown we know how to attack an 8 man zone now. Alabama threw a wrinkle at us and shut us down, but I'm not sure if it was the wrinkle or just talent level that stopped us. I am thinking it was general coaching; I don't think their D is more talented than A&M, but I can believe their D is more fundamentally sound.

THis weekend to me will settle whether we are consistent or not. We've played 3 good games out of our last 4, after playing 1 good gamem out of our first 4. If we come out on the road and play well against a solid team, then I will believe the Bama game was just Bama outscheming/talenting/playing us more so than us being inconsistent. If we show up and the La Tech/Memphis/LSU/Bama team shows up, then we'll know that we're just still a very inconsistent team at this point.

[BrunswickDawg]

Here is the thing about last year - We ran for 100 yards before you factor in sacks. We passed for 313. We had 24 first downs to their 17. We ran 84 plays to their 65. We held them to 275 yards in total offense to our 400. Heck, we were even 4 for 6 on 4th down conversions. Our QB made horrid decisions that led to 3 picks inside the Arkansas 40 - including a Pick 6 - and that was the difference in the game. Then we still had a chance to tie it midway through the 4th and Johnson gets stuffed on the Arkansas 7 on a 4th and 2. That game was entirely about turnovers. Yes, drop 8 factored in and helped create the turnovers, but we did move the ball on them pretty effectively. I really think that game was much more about Costello forcing bad throws then it was about Arkansas discovering some miracle defense.

[Hot Rock]

Don't turn the ball over and score in the redzone. That's it. That's the formula because dropping 8 just makes it take longer.


That and no penalties on offense

[Hot Rock]

Make absolutely no mistake, Arkansas is a good team.

They are #8 in pass defense. They are no joke, it will take a good effort from all aspects to win this game.

[Cooterpoot]

Make absolutely no mistake, Arkansas is a good team.

They are #8 in pass defense. They are no joke, it will take a good effort from all aspects to win this game.

Go look at the teams they've played. Those teams don't throw it. That defense is about to be exposed.
We had turnovers and played horrible last year at the QB spot. That won't be the case this year.

[99jc]

I think what everyone is forgetting about is when we played KENTUCKY that was Rogers 1st start and when we played Arkansas he faced the drop 8 for the first time. look what a difference a year made with Kentucky i think Arkansas will be surprised how improved he is since then. if we block well he will rip them a new Arse.

[Maverick91]

Good job class!

Everyone has kind of stated it. and I agree last year was a fluke game, we had a trojan horse for a QB and a mental case for a RB, not just two MAJOR positions in this offense but, two major players that were seniors and we all knew we needed to ride them or we were going die. and we died because they were bad! Like bad! I almost think we would have won that game if Rogers had started, at least we wouldn't have had all the turnovers.

Edit: last year they were -2 in turnovers with one going to the house. That is huge.

My opinion is we win tomorrow:

-keep protecting the ball.
-keep being patient, take what they are giving us.
-Don't force anything (will has done a good job of that)
-Do our thing on D, there is no reason why they should blow us out of the water on D.

I really think this is ours to lose, we are the better team, I think we are better coached, and our scheme is built to find the weakness. There's isn't we stop that run and they will be in trouble.

[Commercecomet24]

Anyone else notice how much better we've run the ball since cole smith replaced dolla bill? Cole has been a road grader, very physical. Just watch him. Good in pass pro too.

[TrapGame]

Go look at the teams they've played. Those teams don't throw it. That defense is about to be exposed.
We had turnovers and played horrible last year at the QB spot. That won't be the case this year.

Corral lit that pass defense up. That pass d looks good when you've shut down teams like Rice and Arkansas Pine Bluff.

[BrunswickDawg]

I think what everyone is forgetting about is when we played KENTUCKY that was Rogers 1st start and when we played Arkansas he faced the drop 8 for the first time. look what a difference a year made with Kentucky i think Arkansas will be surprised how improved he is since then. if we block well he will rip them a new Arse.

That's incorrect. Costello was QB the whole Arkansas game. He started against UK, threw 4 more picks and then got yanked for Will ( who then threw 2 picks in 15 attempts). Will's first start was game 6 against Vandy

[99jc]

That's incorrect. Costello was QB the whole Arkansas game. He started against UK, threw 4 more picks and then got yanked for Will ( who then threw 2 picks in 15 attempts). Will's first start was game 6 against Vandy

You are right which gives me more confidence with Rogers we beat them. they only had 275 total yards last year.

[Hot Rock]

It will help that one of their best DB's out. Good teams overcome that stuff. That didn't help KY last week when we lost A CB early.

[Maroonthirteen]

As others have said, if Arkansas just simple rushes 3 and drops 8, we will win the game. Will and the WR have figured out that simple zone coverage. Even v Alabama, State moved the ball against a simple 3 man rush, drop into zone coverage. It wasn't until Saban mixed in some blitzs and different coverages that they slowed us. Arkansas won't keep it so simple this time. They will mix in some blitzs and different coverages.

WIth all that said, credit goes to Will and WRs. They are reading the defense much better and executing at a higher level than last year's game.

It should be a really good game. Hopefully that big QB isn't to physical for our defense. Hopefully, we got some turnovers. Hopefully we perform well on special teams. State is playing well enough to win this game. Especially if Ark plays a vanilla rush 3 drop 8.

[IMissJack]

All about ball security and doing our jobs. If we do that, I believe we have too many receiving weapons now for them to shutdown every option. And as others have said, if we continue to run when necessary, it loosens up the secondary.

[Percho]

Excellent thread, no other comments.

[dawgday166]

Problem we had with rush 3/drop 8 last year was our 5 OL couldn't block 3. But if your 5 can block 3 and give QB all day to throw, then drop 8 is basically a prevent D which almost never works against a good team with a good OL and QB.

[Jack Lambert]

Their defense does not match up well with our offense. We will consistently move the ball up and down the field. The only thing that will stop our offense is our offense making penalties. Our defense will hold up well against their offense. I suspect one to three big plays on their part but State will hold their offense to a season low. That's my take and I am sticking to it.

[dawgday166]

Anyone else notice how much better we've run the ball since cole smith replaced dolla bill? Cole has been a road grader, very physical. Just watch him. Good in pass pro too.

Yea ... I notice that myself.

[Jack Lambert]

Yea ... I notice that myself.

Cole made the most of his opportunity against KY. He was blowing guys off the line and down field blocking.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Here is the thing about last year - We ran for 100 yards before you factor in sacks. We passed for 313. We had 24 first downs to their 17. We ran 84 plays to their 65. We held them to 275 yards in total offense to our 400. Heck, we were even 4 for 6 on 4th down conversions. Our QB made horrid decisions that led to 3 picks inside the Arkansas 40 - including a Pick 6 - and that was the difference in the game. Then we still had a chance to tie it midway through the 4th and Johnson gets stuffed on the Arkansas 7 on a 4th and 2. That game was entirely about turnovers. Yes, drop 8 factored in and helped create the turnovers, but we did move the ball on them pretty effectively. I really think that game was much more about Costello forcing bad throws then it was about Arkansas discovering some miracle defense.

My point exactly. We gave them the game because we were not ready to pivot when a team drops 8. This year, this is not the case. We expect it from the coin toss. We protect the ball and we win this game. Simple as that.

I will add, we need to take every point we can get. Get the lead and force them to play out of their comfort zone.

[LC Dawg]

I think the turnovers are reversed this year. We'll shut down the run and force Jefferson to throw which will lead to some picks. Maybe even a pick 6.

[Commercecomet24]

Cole made the most of his opportunity against KY. He was blowing guys off the line and down field blocking.

Yep, And he appears to have a mean streak which I love in an ol. I was impressed by his play.

[Cooterpoot]

I don't think we're running the ball better. Just more due to KY game. We only averaged 3 yards a carry bs KY. So let's not get too carried away with the running attack progress. Dolla wasn't available and he's played pretty good this year after the first couple games.

[parabrave]

Our D matches up with their O scheme. We can tackle and we can rush the QB. Our corners sometime will blow a coverage but they are good coverage guys and we ain't defending against Peyton Manning tomorrow. Will has now figured out that we can run the ball esp in the red zone which will open up some routes down there.

[WPS]

I think the turnovers are reversed this year. We'll shut down the run and force Jefferson to throw which will lead to some picks. Maybe even a pick 6.

Jefferson only has 3 INTs this year, not sure why people act like he's a horrible passer. He's a better runner than thrower but he can pass better than many suggest. 15/3 is a very good ratio.

I don't think Arkansas' pass defense is as good as the stats posted earlier would lead you to believe and they've gotten gashed lately, but on the other hand the Arkansas rushing attack will probably be one of if not the best that MSU has faced this year too. Arkansas has a higher rushing YPG and better yards/attempt than Alabama and A&M. It should be a great battle on strength vs. strength.

Overall a similar team to Kentucky except better offensively while UK has a better defense. Arkansas is screwed if they turn the ball over as much as Kentucky did though.

[msstate7]

Jefferson only has 3 INTs this year, not sure why people act like he's a horrible passer. He's a better runner than thrower but he can pass better than many suggest. 15/3 is a very good ratio.

I don't think Arkansas' pass defense is as good as the stats posted earlier would lead you to believe and they've gotten gashed lately, but on the other hand the Arkansas rushing attack will probably be one of if not the best that MSU has faced this year too. Arkansas has a higher rushing YPG and better yards/attempt than Alabama and A&M. It should be a great battle on strength vs. strength.

Overall a similar team to Kentucky except better offensively while UK has a better defense. Arkansas is screwed if they turn the ball over as much as Kentucky did though.

KJ is 3rd in sec in passer rating, 4th in qbr, and 2nd in yds/att. He's been quite good so far

[Jack Lambert]

Jefferson only has 3 INTs this year, not sure why people act like he's a horrible passer. He's a better runner than thrower but he can pass better than many suggest. 15/3 is a very good ratio.

I don't think Arkansas' pass defense is as good as the stats posted earlier would lead you to believe and they've gotten gashed lately, but on the other hand the Arkansas rushing attack will probably be one of if not the best that MSU has faced this year too. Arkansas has a higher rushing YPG and better yards/attempt than Alabama and A&M. It should be a great battle on strength vs. strength.

Overall a similar team to Kentucky except better offensively while UK has a better defense. Arkansas is screwed if they turn the ball over as much as Kentucky did though.

State's defense is going to really confuse KJ and KJ will make mistakes just like Levis for KY. They had a real good WR and they thought he was a good passer. I also want to add State had two starting DB's out and our pass defense still gave them hell.

[TrapGame]

State's defense is going to really confuse KJ and KJ will make mistakes just like Levis for KY. They had a real good WR and they thought he was a good passer. I also want to add State had two starting DB's out and our pass defense still gave them hell.

Cole Cubelic called our defense "Controlled Chaos". He said it's tough on a center to call out blocking assignments when linebackers are moving around and your DE drops back in coverage instead of rushing.

[FriarsPoint]

KJ is 3rd in sec in passer rating, 4th in qbr, and 2nd in yds/att. He's been quite good so far

Take away Burks. I’m sure others will step up, don’t let Burks beat you. He factors quite a bit into the numbers you listed.

[Maroonthirteen]

Yeah. I'm more worried about being about to stop Jefferson than Arkansas stopping us. He is a big physical kid. He will be tough to handle, run and pass.

[Santiago]

Jefferson only has 3 INTs this year, not sure why people act like he's a horrible passer. He's a better runner than thrower but he can pass better than many suggest. 15/3 is a very good ratio.

I don't think Arkansas' pass defense is as good as the stats posted earlier would lead you to believe and they've gotten gashed lately, but on the other hand the Arkansas rushing attack will probably be one of if not the best that MSU has faced this year too. Arkansas has a higher rushing YPG and better yards/attempt than Alabama and A&M. It should be a great battle on strength vs. strength.

Overall a similar team to Kentucky except better offensively while UK has a better defense. Arkansas is screwed if they turn the ball over as much as Kentucky did though.


I think the times I saw him play, it was that he missed receivers, moreso than being erradict on INT's. Against TSUN, he missed a couple of TD's with guys open. So if anything it may be that he is a good QB and with more room to grow. He can definitely throw a nice deep ball.

[LC Dawg]

Jefferson only has 3 INTs this year, not sure why people act like he's a horrible passer. He's a better runner than thrower but he can pass better than many suggest. 15/3 is a very good ratio.

I don't think Arkansas' pass defense is as good as the stats posted earlier would lead you to believe and they've gotten gashed lately, but on the other hand the Arkansas rushing attack will probably be one of if not the best that MSU has faced this year too. Arkansas has a higher rushing YPG and better yards/attempt than Alabama and A&M. It should be a great battle on strength vs. strength.

Overall a similar team to Kentucky except better offensively while UK has a better defense. Arkansas is screwed if they turn the ball over as much as Kentucky did though.

My comment had more to do with our defense than KJ but don't pump him up too much. He's not been bad and he had big games against Ole Miss and Ga Southern but he's averaging 160 yards passing in his other games. Burks has 42 catches and the next guy has 14 so I think it's obvious what you have to do to limit their passing game.

[Maverick91]

I think the turnovers are reversed this year. We'll shut down the run and force Jefferson to throw which will lead to some picks. Maybe even a pick 6.

Heck Forbes almost had like three himself last week.

[msstate7]

Take away Burks. I’m sure others will step up, don’t let Burks beat you. He factors quite a bit into the numbers you listed.

Absolutely he does. Burks is very good. If we stop him, we win

[dawgday166]

Cole Cubelic called our defense "Controlled Chaos". He said it's tough on a center to call out blocking assignments when linebackers are moving around and your DE drops back in coverage instead of rushing.

I really like Arnett. Hope he sticks around for a while. I think Leach/Arnett combo could take us to a pretty high level in couple to 3 years or so.

[PikeDawg15]

I really like Arnett. Hope he sticks around for a while. I think Leach/Arnett combo could take us to a pretty high level in couple to 3 years or so.

Sorta pissed off that we lost to LSU and Memphis******** at the same time we may have possibly turned a corner.. and we have Georgia on the schedule next year but LSU and Ole Miss should both be down next year so

[Johnson85]

Sorta pissed off that we lost to LSU and Memphis******** at the same time we may have possibly turned a corner.. and we have Georgia on the schedule next year but LSU and Ole Miss should both be down next year so

LSU should not be down next year unless they screw up their hire. Even if they can't use the transfer portal to keep their talent steady or better, they'll probably be better just from being solidly coached. Of course, except that we have to replace 3 linemen, one of which is going to be very difficult to replace, we will hopefully be better next year than we were at the time we played LSU this year.

[TrapGame]

LSU should not be down next year unless they screw up their hire. Even if they can't use the transfer portal to keep their talent steady or better, they'll probably be better just from being solidly coached. Of course, except that we have to replace 3 linemen, one of which is going to be very difficult to replace, we will hopefully be better next year than we were at the time we played LSU this year.

It's time for LSU to wander in the wilderness for a while. I hope they royally screw up the hire and spend three or four years w/ 8-4 and 7-5 seasons.

[TrapGame]

I really like Arnett. Hope he sticks around for a while. I think Leach/Arnett combo could take us to a pretty high level in couple to 3 years or so.

Well, the rumor is Zach is very happy here and loves working for Leach. I'd love for him to stay two or three more years.

[dawgday166]

Sorta pissed off that we lost to LSU and Memphis******** at the same time we may have possibly turned a corner.. and we have Georgia on the schedule next year but LSU and Ole Miss should both be down next year so

Yea ... I'd like to have those games back too. I think we're starting to turn corner ... a little concerned this week cause I think we still have a stumblin, bumbling couple of TO and several stupid penalties games where we lose a close one we really shouldn't IMO down the stretch. IMO we should win everything down stretch except AU maybe.

[dawgday166]

Well, the rumor is Zach is very happy here and loves working for Leach. I'd love for him to stay two or three more years.

Hope the rumor is true. I like this whole staff really. Hope they all stay a while. Miller's OL coming around now too. I think I read they only had 28 total starts (and I think 11 of those were Cross) among the whole group coming into season. They look to be starting to gell and communication seems much better now too.

[OLJWales]

Anyone else notice how much better we've run the ball since cole smith replaced dolla bill? Cole has been a road grader, very physical. Just watch him. Good in pass pro too.

Good stuff Commerce. I remember nobody here was overly excited about Cole's autograph but we squirted repeatedly on dolla bill. OL Crootin be like a box of chocolates.

[sleepy dawg]

Don't turn the ball over and score in the redzone. That's it. That's the formula because dropping 8 just makes it take longer.


That and no penalties on offense

lol, yeah right.