Stats at the halfway point

[Coach34]

Offense:

12th in Scoring
9th in Total Offense
Tied for 12th in Sacks Allowed
12th in 10+ plays
13th in 20+ plays
Last in 30+ plays
12th in penalties per game
8th in 3rd down conversions
9th in Turnovers Committed

Defense:

10th in Scoring D
9th in Total D
12 in Sacks
2nd in 10+ plays
10th in 20+ plays
11th in 30+ plays
7th in 3rd Down Allowed
9th in Takeaways

[chef dixon]

So where do we go from here? Going 5-7 and beating 2 teams we shouldn't to me isn't much different then going 6-6 and just winning the games we should. A 6-6 bowl doesn't mean shit and our last 10 years proves that by exactly where we are right now. I don't really see a way that we can compete with any consistency with the way CFB is currently set up.

[Coach34]

We can’t get rid of Leach until the end of next year at the earliest. Probably 4 years. Got to ride this one out

[Dawgfan77]

But I thought our AD hired an offensive genius to bring us to the 21st century....
Meanwhile our rival....

[msugolf]

We can’t get rid of Leach until the end of next year at the earliest. Probably 4 years. Got to ride this one out

Hopefully Cohen is gone by then but based on what Ive heard that is not likely. Too many decision maker donors love them some Cohen. He knows how to buddy-buddy to the right people.

[Coursesuper]

We can’t get rid of Leach until the end of next year at the earliest. Probably 4 years. Got to ride this one out

We are stuck in this one sink or swim.

[Coach34]

Hopefully Cohen is gone by then but based on what Ive heard that is not likely. Too many decision maker donors love them some Cohen. He knows how to buddy-buddy to the right people.

Yeah I dont get all the people that think Cohen's job is tied to Leach. Cohen will retire at State

[Percho]

Under our best coaches we have been mediocre at best, therefore, what do you suggest Mississippi State do?

[CadaverDawg]

A live look at the pirate ship in Starkville for the next 2+ years....

https://c.tenor.com/hJPCXmv2D3YAAAAC/its-ok-everything-is-fine.gif

[Coach34]

Under our best coaches we have been mediocre at best, therefore, what do you suggest Mississippi State do?

Well that’s just flat out wrong. Jackie got us to Atlanta and Mullen had teams in 2010, 2012, 2014, 2017, and would have had in 2018 teams that were pretty damn good football teams. Mullen’s last few teams:

2014- 10-3
2015- 9-4
2016- 6-7
2017- 9-4
And has us primed for 10 or more wins in 2018

We need a younger talent developer that likes to recruit. They have to have a strong personality. You can win at State consistently. Mullen did it. Find a good coordinator and let’s go. Kentucky did it as well. We can find another Mullen

[confucius say]

Well that’s just flat out wrong. Jackie got us to Atlanta and Mullen had teams in 2010, 2012, 2014, 2017, and would have had in 2018 teams that were pretty damn good football teams. Mullen’s last few teams:

2014- 10-3
2015- 9-4
2016- 6-7
2017- 9-4
And has us primed for 10 or more wins in 2018

We need a younger talent developer that likes to recruit. They have to have a strong personality. You can win at State consistently. Mullen did it. Find a good coordinator and let’s go. Kentucky did it as well. We can find another Mullen

You told me you wanted mullen gone. That we couldn't fire him but you hoped he would just leave on his own. I told you that was crazy.

Now you say we can find another mullen.

[HoopsDawg]

We can’t get rid of Leach until the end of next year at the earliest. Probably 4 years. Got to ride this one out

I could be wrong, but I don't think Cohen gave Leach an extension after last season. If we don't extend Leach after going 5-7 this year, that would just leave 2 years on his contract. We can fire him after 2022 season. We won't be playing Vandy next year and we won't have Cross at LT. It's going to be ugly.

[HoopsDawg]

You told me you wanted mullen gone. That we couldn't fire him but you hoped he would just leave on his own. I told you that was crazy.

Now you say we can find another mullen.

Mullen didn't want to be at State anymore. Why is this so hard to understand.

[Coach34]

Mullen didn't want to be at State anymore. Why is this so hard to understand.

Beats me

[BeardoMSU]

We can’t get rid of Leach until the end of next year at the earliest. Probably 4 years. Got to ride this one out

And what will our roster look like for the next guy, lol? Yikes.

[Dawgsfanalongtime77]

But I thought our AD hired an offensive genius to bring us to the 21st century....
Meanwhile our rival....

What is was was a splash hire at the time. Looked good on paper. People failed to realize that 100 years of state football was gonna have to be completely changed. State has always been smash mouth physical football along with mid to top tier defenses. Even ******* system was what state was accustomed too. Throwing 60 times a game and being dead last in rushing might work in the pac 12 but not the sec.

[Dawgfan77]

What is was was a splash hire at the time. Looked good on paper. People failed to realize that 100 years of state football was gonna have to be completely changed. State has always been smash mouth physical football along with mid to top tier defenses. Even ******* system was what state was accustomed too. Throwing 60 times a game and being dead last in rushing might work in the pac 12 but not the sec.

Lots of good stuff here.
This was why leach was a bad hire. We don't have a history of WR and QBs. Then think about where we are having to recruit kids from. We are deep in TX and while that's good to a certain extent we are losing kids instate that would fit in much better at state but end up elsewhere. Leach is a bad fit for us. There is to much speed in the sec and better coaches than he faced in the PAC 12 and BiG 12.

34 is right we have to find another guy like Mullen. And not worried about what roster leach leaves behind if the next coach is good he will adapt like Mullen did in 09.
Our best hope is leach say 17 it and heads to the keys

[Bark]

Yeah I dont get all the people that think Cohen's job is tied to Leach. Cohen will retire at State

Well that's depressing.

[Liverpooldawg]

If Cohen retires here then we are headed to the bottom in every sport for a LONG time, probably even in baseball.

[basedog]

Mullen didn't want to be at State anymore. Why is this so hard to understand.

When will all this "we hate Mullen" stop, he was good overall for Msu, changing jobs is nothing new. Biggest issue with Mullen is his ego.

[basedog]

If Cohen retires here then we are headed to the bottom in every sport for a LONG time, probably even in baseball.

No one man or Coach is bigger than Msu, you are wrong Liver!

[confucius say]

Mullen didn't want to be at State anymore. Why is this so hard to understand.

But WE should have wanted him to be here. That's the issue. Coach wanted mullen gone. Which is crazy. Any young coach who is hired here and has success the way Dan did will be looking for the big time job. There a dozen of them whose agent is talking to LSU right now.

[HancockCountyDog]

I could be wrong, but I don't think Cohen gave Leach an extension after last season. If we don't extend Leach after going 5-7 this year, that would just leave 2 years on his contract. We can fire him after 2022 season. We won't be playing Vandy next year and we won't have Cross at LT. It's going to be ugly.

Are we sure about this? I mean, has he shown NFL talent? I know he has potential, but I guess I haven't seen enough.

I hope you are wrong, otherwise we will be breaking in at least 3 new OL and two of those will be OTs.

[msstate7]

Are we sure about this? I mean, has he shown NFL talent? I know he has potential, but I guess I haven't seen enough.

I hope you are wrong, otherwise we will be breaking in at least 3 new OL and two of those will be OTs.

Potential is all that's needed to be a high draft pick at his position

[confucius say]

Potential is all that's needed to be a high draft pick at his position

He's graded out highly.

[msstate7]

He's graded out highly.

Then I'll be shocked if he's back

[TaleofTwoDogs]

Leach is not a good fit and I see 7-5 as his peak (even that may be asking too much). The 2022 commitment list is all 3 stars and ranked 31st. That will not cut it in the SEC West. A poster said ,Mullen's problem was his ego, I think in his line of work that's probably an asset if used wisely. He also seem to have a passion for the game.

[Irondawg]

I need to go look up which teams have given up more 20 and 30+ yard gains than us

[Coach34]

He's graded out highly.

Cross has played well. Looking at possibly losing him and Polk early. Then you add Heath and Calvin, plus Lashley, and Sharp. Williams probably leans at returning but you never know, We're not "young" on offense. Could be a bunch of new faces next year out there. But sorry- there's no pass in Year 3.

[Coach34]

I need to go look up which teams have given up more 20 and 30+ yard gains than us

http://cfbstats.com/2021/leader/911/team/defense/split01/category30/sort02.html

[HoopsDawg]

Are we sure about this? I mean, has he shown NFL talent? I know he has potential, but I guess I haven't seen enough.

I hope you are wrong, otherwise we will be breaking in at least 3 new OL and two of those will be OTs.

Cross is going to be a first round pick in the upcoming draft.

[confucius say]

Then I'll be shocked if he's back

Same

[confucius say]

Cross has played well. Looking at possibly losing him and Polk early. Then you add Heath and Calvin, plus Lashley, and Sharp. Williams probably leans at returning but you never know, We're not "young" on offense. Could be a bunch of new faces next year out there. But sorry- there's no pass in Year 3.

I expect Polk back.

I'd rather Tulu take heaths reps anyway. I have no idea why we refuse to get the ball in tulus hands.

But yea. We should be old next year.

[Coach34]

I expect Polk back.

He's on pace to catch over 100 passes. These guys want to play in the NFL- not spend years in college taking hits. We'll have to see what kind of draft grade he gets after the season. Got figure it's 50/50

[Homedawg]

Are we sure about this? I mean, has he shown NFL talent? I know he has potential, but I guess I haven't seen enough.

I hope you are wrong, otherwise we will be breaking in at least 3 new OL and two of those will be OTs.

Heck yeah he's gone. He's really good.

[SilentSteel16]

If Cohen retires here then we are headed to the bottom in every sport for a LONG time, probably even in baseball.

Sorry man but this is just dumb. Cohen will have no problem surviving Leach. He just won us a National Championship if you have not heard with Lemonis. State has been and will always be a baseball school first. I am just like everyone else and wanting to be able to compete in every sport as well, but the fact is our primary focus is baseball. It was that way in the 80s and it is still that way today. Cohen is a lifer and to be honest we as a program could be in far worse hands.

[PGHBulldogBG]

I still think we can beat Kentucky at home if we execute and don?t make mistakes because I think our defense can stop them. I do worry about moving the ball on UK though and getting into the end zone. I don?t see any other wins thought outside Vandy and TSU. If Leach goes 6-6 I don?t think it?s worth giving him an extension. Obviously he should get 1 more year but if there is no movement next year we will have to move on. This back half of the year is going to be a key indicator on whether or not Leach can get the job done here. The recruiting is also very concerning

[msstate7]

I still think we can beat Kentucky at home if we execute and don?t make mistakes because I think our defense can stop them. I do worry about moving the ball on UK though and getting into the end zone. I don?t see any other wins thought outside Vandy and TSU. If Leach goes 6-6 I don?t think it?s worth giving him an extension. Obviously he should get 1 more year but if there is no movement next year we will have to move on. This back half of the year is going to be a key indicator on whether or not Leach can get the job done here. The recruiting is also very concerning

I think Kentucky is our best shot of the games left besides vandy and tenn whoever

[Dawgfan77]

Sorry man but this is just dumb. Cohen will have no problem surviving Leach. He just won us a National Championship if you have not heard with Lemonis. State has been and will always be a baseball school first. I am just like everyone else and wanting to be able to compete in every sport as well, but the fact is our primary focus is baseball. It was that way in the 80s and it is still that way today. Cohen is a lifer and to be honest we as a program could be in far worse hands.

I hate this take.
Yes happy we won a baseball Natty... but brother it's don't pay the bills and I can assure you that if other schools won a baseball Natty they wouldn't down play football like some of our fans.
I guess I'm the only one who wants to win and believe we can win in all sports.

[BrunswickDawg]

I hate this take.
Yes happy we won a baseball Natty... but brother it's don't pay the bills and I can assure you that if other schools won a baseball Natty they wouldn't down play football like some of our fans.
I guess I'm the only one who wants to win and believe we can win in all sports.

Membership in the SEC pays the bills, not football. Without that, our football program wouldn't pay the bills either - we proved that from 1960 -1990 when conference alignment barely mattered and TV money was a non-factor. Without SEC membership we would be USM, and you see their decline over the past 2-3 decades. Within the SEC power structure we are and will likely always be 2nd tier in football, and battling to stay out of 3rd tier. That's just facts. Frankly, Ole Miss is in that same boat as well they just delude themselves into not believing it. No extra cruitin', and no extra commitment from the university will change that. We literally saw the result of being as "all in" in football under Dan Mullen as we have ever been. It got us a nice story in 2014 and within 2 years we back to our grades making us bowl eligible. We all enjoyed it, and I believe that we will never be as inept and complacent about football as we were from 2002 - 2008 - but thinking that we stand a chance of becoming a football power is a fools errand.

That is why we put so much emphasis on Baseball - it is a sport where we are elite and we have always competed at a very high level. If investing there means continued winning, continued championships, and cements a reputation as not just "a" but "the" baseball school of the SEC I'm perfectly good with that.

[confucius say]

Membership in the SEC pays the bills, not football. Without that, our football program wouldn't pay the bills either - we proved that from 1960 -1990 when conference alignment barely mattered and TV money was a non-factor. Without SEC membership we would be USM, and you see their decline over the past 2-3 decades. Within the SEC power structure we are and will likely always be 2nd tier in football, and battling to stay out of 3rd tier. That's just facts. Frankly, Ole Miss is in that same boat as well they just delude themselves into not believing it. No extra cruitin', and no extra commitment from the university will change that. We literally saw the result of being as "all in" in football under Dan Mullen as we have ever been. It got us a nice story in 2014 and within 2 years we back to our grades making us bowl eligible. We all enjoyed it, and I believe that we will never be as inept and complacent about football as we were from 2002 - 2008 - but thinking that we stand a chance of becoming a football power is a fools errand.

That is why we put so much emphasis on Baseball - it is a sport where we are elite and we have always competed at a very high level. If investing there means continued winning, continued championships, and cements a reputation as not just "a" but "the" baseball school of the SEC I'm perfectly good with that.

Agree. And this appears to be reflected in the way we support baseball vs football. We can only get 53k in a 62k stadium for a night game with perfect weather against Bama with us coming off a huge win. And 10k of those were Bama fans. Same for a home game against LSU. Our fanbase doesn't really care about football honestly. Not enough to show up and make a difference at least.

We'd rather just complain on a message board.

[SilentSteel16]

Hate my take all you want, but State is and will always be a Baseball school. If you think that Football pays the bills then bud you need a class in economics. You are saying that 6 games, 6 games a year generate for money than a baseball season? Sure you can get more seats in the stands but baseball makes just as much money in half a season and a couple of good weekend series revenue as football makes its entire year. And yes, as stated before, SEC is who funds our football program. Every win we get in that sport is a bonus.

[Coach34]

Hate my take all you want, but State is and will always be a Baseball school. If you think that Football pays the bills then bud you need a class in economics. You are saying that 6 games, 6 games a year generate for money than a baseball season? Sure you can get more seats in the stands but baseball makes just as much money in half a season and a couple of good weekend series revenue as football makes its entire year. And yes, as stated before, SEC is who funds our football program. Every win we get in that sport is a bonus.

Baseball makes a little money- football makes much more. Basketball and the non-revenue sports are the drain for us. Women's basketball being the biggest drain. But yes- in the end- SEC money pays the bills.

[Dawgfan77]

Hate my take all you want, but State is and will always be a Baseball school. If you think that Football pays the bills then bud you need a class in economics. You are saying that 6 games, 6 games a year generate for money than a baseball season? Sure you can get more seats in the stands but baseball makes just as much money in half a season and a couple of good weekend series revenue as football makes its entire year. And yes, as stated before, SEC is who funds our football program. Every win we get in that sport is a bonus.
Sir I'd go back to economics if I was you.... we clear much much more than baseball. If you think differently I can't help you. We can make more money in one football game than we can in a weekend series. Fact are facts sir

[SilentSteel16]

Take this past natty out of the equation so no recency bias. We have what 6 home games a year? DWS holds 55k even though we never get more than 40k the Dude can hold up to 14k so let’s say 11k average. One weekend series is 33k which basically is really close to one home game at DWS. State has how many home series a season? Not to mention 5k for mid week games. I guarantee you that the M over S brand generates more apparel sales than the M banner. If you don’t think our National brand is not M over S than you are wrong. To say that football is what butters States bread you are wrong. Just look at the stadiums and see what State thinks is a priority. The Dude is a major league level stadium. DWS is not an NFL stadium.

I am not knocking our football team but you have to realize we are college baseball not college football and that is fine. Alabama is college football and not college baseball. South Carolina is college WBB nothing else. The best overall program in the SEC all sports is probably LSU. Vandy is another baseball example. Do you see the point? Just about all D1 schools have 1 sport they expect to truly compete in. Ours in baseball.

[Coach34]

Take this past natty out of the equation so no recency bias. We have what 6 home games a year? DWS holds 55k even though we never get more than 40k the Dude can hold up to 14k so let’s say 11k average. One weekend series is 33k which basically is really close to one home game at DWS. State has how many home series a season? Not to mention 5k for mid week games. I guarantee you that the M over S brand generates more apparel sales than the M banner. If you don’t think our National brand is not M over S than you are wrong. To say that football is what butters States bread you are wrong. Just look at the stadiums and see what State thinks is a priority. The Dude is a major league level stadium. DWS is not an NFL stadium.

I am not knocking our football team but you have to realize we are college baseball not college football and that is fine. Alabama is college football and not college baseball. South Carolina is college WBB nothing else. The best overall program in the SEC all sports is probably LSU. Vandy is another baseball example. Do you see the point? Just about all D1 schools have 1 sport they expect to truly compete in. Ours in baseball.

I'm telling you- baseball makes a little money. Football makes alot of money.

A huge SEC weekend in baseball makes 200K. A football home game makes close to a million or more.

Baseball tickets cost $10. Football tickets cost a helluva lot more. Just look at Scoreboard Club, Gridiron Club, and 50 yard line ticket costs.

[SilentSteel16]

Good deal on tickets, just glad to know our bell cow program has as many division and sec championships as our baseball team has national titles… oh and we have a winning record against 4 sec opponents. And 2 of those are .500 so one loss and poof. So yeah we should win 10 games a year and complain when we don’t make 8 wins because we have traditionally been that 8-10 win conference championship team.. right?

This all started when someone said we were not a baseball school, which we are. Tickets prices be what they may. It is due to pour baseball team why we are still in the SEC. because we are that guaranteed win the other school are talking about. If you can’t find 5 guarantee conference wins on your schedule, you are that team on others schedules. Just a fact of life boys, football wise we are mid tier holding on to SEC SKIRTS, baseball we are not that.

[Coach34]

Good deal on tickets, just glad to know our bell cow program has as many division and sec championships as our baseball team has national titles… oh and we have a winning record against 4 sec opponents. And 2 of those are .500 so one loss and poof. So yeah we should win 10 games a year and complain when we don’t make 8 wins because we have traditionally been that 8-10 win conference championship team.. right?

This all started when someone said we were not a baseball school, which we are. Tickets prices be what they may. It is due to pour baseball team why we are still in the SEC. because we are that guaranteed win the other school are talking about. If you can’t find 5 guarantee conference wins on your schedule, you are that team on others schedules. Just a fact of life boys, football wise we are mid tier holding on to SEC SKIRTS, baseball we are not that.

Dont get salty with me- I'm on your side for the most part. We are one of the few baseball programs in the country that makes money. Thats a credit to us. We are a blue-blood in baseball that finally hit it with the exclamation point.

But football pays alot of bills. Even in bad years our football program makes millions. Football stirs the drink.

[Commercecomet24]

Our baseball program put us on the map and keeps us on the map. While we are definitely not a sec blue blood in football we have managed to claw our way up to becoming a mid tier level sec team over the last decade. For years we were a bottom feeder but have made progress over the last decade. We have gained some respectability. Baby steps I know but steps nonetheless

[SilentSteel16]

Dont get salty with me- I'm on your side for the most part. We are one of the few baseball programs in the country that makes money. Thats a credit to us. We are a blue-blood in baseball that finally hit it with the exclamation point.

But football pays alot of bills. Even in bad years our football program makes millions. Football stirs the drink.


To be perfectly honest, with exception to the first sentence of the ticket sales, you (C34) were not my intended target.

[basedog]

Our baseball program put us on the map and keeps us on the map. While we are definitely not a sec blue blood in football we have managed to claw our way up to becoming a mid tier level sec team over the last decade. For years we were a bottom feeder but have made progress over the last decade. We have gained some respectability. Baby steps I know but steps nonetheless

Somewhat 24, we were in the mid level, but the last two years (so far) ain't looking good for as being mid level, I'd say we have taken a big step backwards. But it is what it is as we always seem to be taking a step forward only to take two backwards. We've had some nice runs especially keeping the bowl streak alive.....excuse me as I cough with 4 wins last year. LOL

I don't believe this system can sustain any consistency, just way to much speed and good coaching on defense for a one dimensional team. Good teams find a way to score, be physical and be creative in the red zone, we have neither, just poor judgement.

Let me add, I've been a huge supporter of Msu since the early 70's, I've supported pretty much every Coach, but I'm not a fan of the Pirate but I still love Msu and pull for us, I just don't believe in his system. We've never been loaded with wide receivers and QB's dying to come to StarkVegas, look at recruiting, it's about the same as the past.

[Dawgfan77]

To be perfectly honest, with exception to the first sentence of the ticket sales, you (C34) were not my intended target.
Your intended target understands the economic value of a home game in football over a series or more in baseball. We also seat 62K in football just FYI.
Don't get me wrong im happy about the Natty in Baseball, but don't try and tell us well let's just forget about football and just be a baseball school. That's ludicrous and that's the point you were making. We making damn near 2 million on a home football game and that's not counting the sky boxes, the club level scoreboard level donations.
All im saying is try to understand the economic value in college athletics that football presents

[BrunswickDawg]

If any of you are interested, there is a great website that breaks down university/athletic/football spending and overall revenues for every D1 program - http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/fbs/sec/mississippi-state-university#!quicktabs-tab-institution_data-2

The data is from 2005 - 2019, and is pretty informative.