Gruden to the Alabama Coaching Rehab Clinic?

[Hambone]

Damn, man???

[MaroonFlounder]

Chunky dun F'd up. He gone.

[shoeless joe]

So are we really shocked that a mans man football lifer uses the language he did in those emails? And god forbid he sent a provocative picture of a female. I’m not surprised by the cancelling but am tired of the self righteous faux outrage.

[MaroonFlounder]

So are we really shocked that a mans man football lifer uses the language he did in those emails? And god forbid he sent a provocative picture of a female. I’m not surprised by the cancelling but am tired of the self righteous faux outrage.

E-mails of that nature will always lead to one's downfall, unless said person is a member of the political left.

[Commercecomet24]

So are we really shocked that a mans man football lifer uses the language he did in those emails? And god forbid he sent a provocative picture of a female. I’m not surprised by the cancelling but am tired of the self righteous faux outrage.

Yeah if anyone's ever been in a locker room you know the kind of language and crudeness that exists.

[shoeless joe]

E-mails of that nature will always lead to one's downfall, unless said person is a member of the political left.

And unfortunately politics is probably playing a role. Just read where he criticized Obama and Biden in the emails as well…there ya go

[Coach34]

He isn’t a Lib so he has to pay the price. The shit our President has said over the years and he is still President proves this.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

He isn’t a Lib so he has to pay the price. The shit our President has said over the years and he is still President proves this.

If an NBA coach said the same things about Obama that Popovich said about Trump, they would have been fired or suspended.

[BeardoMSU]

He isn’t a Lib so he has to pay the price. The shit our President has said over the years and he is still President proves this.

Look, I don't think Gruden should've resigned, been fired, or even punished for that matter, given what's been reported so far...

But wtf are you talking about? Literally every Potus going back decades have said some shit...unless you have a 9 month memory, I suppose.

[Coach34]

Seriously? Biden is the probably the most racist president in history. The montage on shit he has said is incredible

[BeardoMSU]

Seriously? Biden is the probably the most racist president in history. The montage on shit he has said is incredible

Lol, ok.

I'm actually surprised you referred to him as "our President", fwiw.

[BeardoMSU]

Seriously? Biden is the probably the most racist president in history. The montage on shit he has said is incredible

And I really don't think you want to reduce life to a YouTube montage contest, lol...

[Commercecomet24]

Happiest man in the country right now is urban meyer

[BeardoMSU]

Happiest man in the country right now is urban meyer

Fact, lol.

[Commercecomet24]

Fact, lol.

He's sending chucky thank you texts right now lol

[Tater]

Dave Chappelle sitting there saying I told you so.

When it was he offended only black people (tangent: I think it was poor choice of words not racism) then he was fine. When he offended LGBT+ and Women... that tune changed real quick.

SAS defended him on the mouse today. Betcha he rips him tomorrow.

I wish virtue signaling would go away in this country so we could not focus on the fact that a man was consensually digging for some brown gold and instead worry about a state taking away that coed's right to protect herself from when they have an accidental kid.

LGBT+ got the rights they fought for. Time to move on and stop acting offended over insulting words and battle for stuff where we're actually actively harming people. The Left has good ideas but worse leadership than SlowMo JoMo and it makes them suck.

[parabrave]

The next time the Raiders are on a nationaly televised game the networks are going to have fake crowd noise broadcast over the TV. You won't be hearing F Joe B but G roger Goodall.

[OLJWales]

So are we really shocked that a mans man football lifer uses the language he did in those emails? And god forbid he sent a provocative picture of a female. I’m not surprised by the cancelling but am tired of the self righteous faux outrage.

Words of Iron.

[was21]

Nope...he's finished coaching, maybe even going back to ESPN...he's done

[trob115]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if LSU hired him this year. I think he will get a chance at a college if he wants it.

[OLJWales]

Nope...he's finished coaching, maybe even going back to ESPN...he's done

MAYBE ESPN? lol. Dem suns uh bitches prolly gonna start a televised protest outside his home harassing him and family.

[bulldawg28]

Gruden is fine that's the reality this doesn't really hurt him. He could still coach in the future if he wanted. Our country doesn't really care about his language used Long term.

[SilentSteel16]

Well we all know how the cancel game works. What Coach34 is right, there is a double standard. If you come out and say something positive about Trump then prepare your defense in the coming year. What Coach Pap said about Trump should make even Dems blush, but if roles were reversed it would have been a firing.

Like Commerce said, what Gruden said is a fraction of what is continually said in locker rooms. Heck for that matter, Patrick Queen will probably be fined for what he said last night only because the referees mic was on.

[OLJWales]

Well we all know how the cancel game works. What Coach34 is right, there is a double standard. If you come out and say something positive about Trump then prepare your defense in the coming year. What Coach Pap said about Trump should make even Dems blush, but if roles were reversed it would have been a firing.

Like Commerce said, what Gruden said is a fraction of what is continually said in locker rooms. Heck for that matter, Patrick Queen will probably be fined for what he said last night only because the referees mic was on.

THIS. IN.

[Saltydog]

Yep, no doubt there's a double standard the left doesn't want to admit. The most frequent visitor to the White House during Obama's term was none other than the Reverend Al "I ain't paying no taxes" Sharpton. Yet he has his own show on MSNBC and owes the IRS millions.

[OLJWales]

Yep, no doubt there's a double standard the left doesn't want to admit. The most frequent visitor to the White House during Obama's term was none other than the Reverend Al "I ain't paying no taxes" Sharpton. Yet he has his own show on MSNBC and owes the IRS millions.

Not so SHARPten & Jesse extorted millions from bidnesses by threatening to go after them for BS race reasons. Race Hustling is a big bidne$$

[R2Dawg]

Seriously? Biden is the probably the most racist president in history. The montage on shit he has said is incredible

The double standard from liberals towards conservatives is blatantly on view every day. If anyone can't see it you are as blind as it gets.

[Coach34]

Lol, ok.

I'm actually surprised you referred to him as "our President", fwiw.

Only childish Lib morons say things like "not my president"

[BeardoMSU]

Only childish Lib morons say things like "not my president"

Sure...only a pouty lib would say such things, lol.

[R2Dawg]

For 4 years after Trump was elected all the left did was try and say he stole the election with not only no proof but proven made up bought false reports.

Conservatives called for recounts and exercised their constitutional rights on voting and the left labels them terrorist. This is double standard and then some. This is what you get with a totalitarian government. Look at history.

The Bush/Gore recount was done with both sides participating in the process. The left shut it down this time. The power grab is real.

[OLJWales]

Look, I don't think Gruden should've resigned, been fired, or even punished for that matter, given what's been reported so far...

But wtf are you talking about? Literally every Potus going back decades have said some shit...unless you have a 9 month memory, I suppose.

Trump's shit was exaggerated X 1000 by fake news. Obama and Biden get Monicas from fake news while intentionally ignoring their 17 ups.

[Coach34]

and Biden has been so awful- even the media cant ignore it. Let's Go Brandon!!!

[BeardoMSU]

The Bush/Gore recount was done with both sides participating in the process.

This is the only factual statement in your entire post. The rest is abject bull shit.

There were plenty of recounts. There were plenty of court cases. Processes were followed. Everyone had their day(s) in court. Everyone had their opportunities to provide evidence.

As for the recounts, none of them changed anything. In fact, the hilarious side show that went on in Arizona for months only ended in embarrassment for all involved. When you see red-eyed crazies foaming at the mouth about "bamboo fibers", you might want to take a step back....Occam's Razor, perhaps?

The court cases were also a total farce, perpetrated by a bunch of grifters who were either 1) totally full of shit, 2) using the opportunity to accrue fame/money, or 3) both.

But sure....if you believe, Giuliani, Jenna Ellis, Sidney Powell, et al., the only logical explanation is they were all shut down by the Deep-State, the lib media, the Illuminati, and all those pesky RINOS to deprive the world of the greatness of DJT.

The cult of personality that has taken hold in some of y'all really is a sight to behold....

[BeardoMSU]

Let's Go Brandon!!!

And only lib morons say childish shit, lol.^^

[SilentSteel16]

It is all about perspective. People see things the way they want to see them. This goes across the board. Another example is your avatar, Indiana Jones, he is literally a thief. Yet he gets portrayed as the hero. Twisted narratives have always been a fascination of mine.

[FISHDAWG]

Look, I don't think Gruden should've resigned, been fired, or even punished for that matter, given what's been reported so far...

But wtf are you talking about? Literally every Potus going back decades have said some shit...unless you have a 9 month memory, I suppose.

Maybe excepting Jimmy Carter ... I wasn't a fan of his but I have to admit the man had some morals ... but your statement above is pretty accurate. (kinda surprising as we are typically on opposite ends of the political spectrum)

[FISHDAWG]

Gruden is fine that's the reality this doesn't really hurt him. He could still coach in the future if he wanted. Our country doesn't really care about his language used Long term.

after seeing Freeze get hired by a Christian college I tend to agree

[Coach34]

And only lib morons say childish shit, lol.^^

childish? It's funny. The reporter literally made something up to try and cover for Biden. The guy has a 38% approval rating on average. Things are falling apart and getting worse by the day. Highest gas prices in 7 years (which is no coincidence) and we are no longer a net exporter of oil and gas. Not gonna tax the middle class? Thats your middle class tax right there

[Johnson85]

Seriously? Biden is the probably the most racist president in history. The montage on shit he has said is incredible

Uhhh....maybe since after Wilson? And that's if you judge LBJ on his actions rather than his actual feelings.

[Coach34]

Uhhh....maybe since after Wilson? And that's if you judge LBJ on his actions rather than his actual feelings.

yeah I guess. It's just Biden says things publicly others never did

[Johnson85]

This is the only factual statement in your entire post. The rest is abject bull shit.

There were plenty of recounts. There were plenty of court cases. Processes were followed. Everyone had their day(s) in court. Everyone had their opportunities to provide evidence.

As for the recounts, none of them changed anything. In fact, the hilarious side show that went on in Arizona for months only ended in embarrassment for all involved. When you see red-eyed crazies foaming at the mouth about "bamboo fibers", you might want to take a step back....Occam's Razor, perhaps?

The court cases were also a total farce, perpetrated by a bunch of grifters who were either 1) totally full of shit, 2) using the opportunity to accrue fame/money, or 3) both.

But sure....if you believe, Giuliani, Jenna Ellis, Sidney Powell, et al., the only logical explanation is they were all shut down by the Deep-State, the lib media, the Illuminati, and all those pesky RINOS to deprive the world of the greatness of DJT.

The cult of personality that has taken hold in some of y'all really is a sight to behold....

I don't think it's a cult of personality to acknowledge that one side spent lots of effort to make the election more susceptible to fraud. It's extremely hard to prove fraud. All that can be pointed to is opportunity. Maybe there was enough fraud to swing the election, maybe there wasn't. But a lack of faith in the elections is inevitable when one side fights to make it easier to cheat.

[OLJWales]

Uhhh....maybe since after Wilson? And that's if you judge LBJ on his actions rather than his actual feelings.

LBJ was as bigga piece of shit as evah with those words he spoke after "Great" society passed which ultimately destroyed a high percentage of black family structure.

[BeardoMSU]

It is all about perspective. People see things the way they want to see them. This goes across the board. Another example is your avatar, Indiana Jones, he is literally a thief. Yet he gets portrayed as the hero. Twisted narratives have always been a fascination of mine.

Haha, fair point on Indiana Jones...though I will add that his actions are quite representative of how archaeology was done during that time.

[BeardoMSU]

I don't think it's a cult of personality to acknowledge that one side spent lots of effort to make the election more susceptible to fraud.

So those Republican legislatures in the states of Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Arizona, and Georgia all made changes to their voting procedures with the goal of hurting....the incumbent Republican POTUS?

Just about every state (maybe every state, actually? I'm not sure) made voting changes for the last election....ya know, because we were in the middle of a pandemic.

[Matt3467]

childish? It's funny. The reporter literally made something up to try and cover for Biden. The guy has a 38% approval rating on average. Things are falling apart and getting worse by the day. Highest gas prices in 7 years (which is no coincidence) and we are no longer a net exporter of oil and gas. Not gonna tax the middle class? Thats your middle class tax right there

Yea as a lower middle class family we've felt the affects of inflation super hard. It's incredible how fast things can change.

[BeardoMSU]

Maybe excepting Jimmy Carter ... I wasn't a fan of his but I have to admit the man had some morals ... but your statement above is pretty accurate. (kinda surprising as we are typically on opposite ends of the political spectrum)

Don't flirt with me, FISH!**

[Johnson85]

So those Republican legislatures in the states of Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Arizona, and Georgia all made changes to their voting procedures with the goal of hurting....the incumbent Republican POTUS?

Just about every state (maybe every state, actually? I'm not sure) made voting changes for the last election....ya know, because we were in the middle of a pandemic.

This predates the pandemic, but you can make changes that make it easier to vote without making it easier to cheat. There is also a difference between legislatures making changes and SOS's or executives making changes.

[BB30]

And I really don't think you want to reduce life to a YouTube montage contest, lol...

So when Biden says things we are supposed to just play it off but I'll be damned if Trump says something he needs to be crucified.

It isn't the act that is the problem, it is the hypocrisy on the left to let things slide like the Hunter Biden BS. Had that been Trump Jr. it would have been plastered all over the place.

[dalmuti]

He isn?t a Lib so he has to pay the price. The shit our President has said over the years and he is still President proves this.

stick to sports, bucko

[OLJWales]

stick to sports, bucko

Stick to commie dill weed.

[OLJWales]

So those Republican legislatures in the states of Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Arizona, and Georgia all made changes to their voting procedures with the goal of hurting....the incumbent Republican POTUS?

Just about every state (maybe every state, actually? I'm not sure) made voting changes for the last election....ya know, because we were in the middle of a pandemic.

Check your facts sir. Judges made those calls that enabled ballots going out to every swinging Dick on outdated voter rolls.

Would you mail yourself a $100 bill?

[dalmuti]

Stick to commie dill weed.

your problem is that youve got all them teeth and no toothbrush to brush em with. made ya ornery and also too sensitive in your feelings

[OLJWales]

your problem is that youve got all them teeth and no toothbrush to brush em with. made ya ornery and also too sensitive in your feelings

Ouch. Not sure I'll get over that one genius. Best check yo own Medulla Oblongatta.

[Coach34]

So those Republican legislatures in the states of Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Arizona, and Georgia all made changes to their voting procedures with the goal of hurting....the incumbent Republican POTUS?.

Thats the problem- the legislatures didnt do that. You had judges or Dem Gov/Secretary of State make decrees to allow it.

The Arizona audit just showed how ridiculous everything was.

[dalmuti]

biden won fair and square, muchacho. the arizona audit confirmed it with a full exoneration. 100% flawless victory

you will just have to accept that joseph robinette biden is the nick saban of presidents and you'll never be able to beat him

[Coach34]

biden won fair and square, muchacho. the arizona audit confirmed it with a full exoneration. 100% flawless victory

you will just have to accept that joseph robinette biden is the nick saban of presidents and you'll never be able to beat him

https://www.wxyz.com/news/ags-office-issues-charges-in-3-cases-of-voter-fraud

Yep- nothing to see here

[Coach34]

Governors race in Virginia is a tight one- so what do Dems ask for?

https://wtop.com/fairfax-county/2021/10/fairfax-board-asks-northam-to-waive-witness-requirement-for-absentee-ballots/

[OLJWales]

biden won fair and square, muchacho. the arizona audit confirmed it with a full exoneration. 100% flawless victory

you will just have to accept that joseph robinette biden is the nick saban of presidents and you'll never be able to beat him

And a guy who couldn't get more than 25 cars to show up at a high school parking lot Rally got more votes than Obama? FL goes 3.3 @ 7:30 Trump and JORGA goes Biden? OH goes 8 percent Trump and you expect logical people to believe WI, MI, & PA? See TX-AZ as well.

[Catfish]

biden won fair and square, muchacho. the arizona audit confirmed it with a full exoneration. 100% flawless victory

you will just have to accept that joseph robinette biden is the nick saban of presidents and you'll never be able to beat him

You sound like an Ole Miss fan. Maybe you're on the wrong forum..

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

you will just have to accept that joseph robinette biden is the nick saban of presidents and you'll never be able to beat him

Lol Nah he's more like the Jerry Sandusky of presidents.

[BayouDawg]

Once a person has been demoralized or successfully subverted presenting them with facts does no good. You can forcefully take them to forced labor camps in socialist paradises and they will still not believe. Only when a military boot is stomping on their balls will their eyes be open.

Paraphrase from former KGB agent Yuri Bezmenov.

[dalmuti]

You sound like an Ole Miss fan. Maybe you're on the wrong forum..

hatin is a disease. get well soon.

[AROB44]

He isn?t a Lib so he has to pay the price. The shit our President has said over the years and he is still President proves this.

👎👎👎

[TUSK]

3288

[OLJWales]

hatin is a disease. get well soon.

Yep, us knuckle draggin racist cave folk growin weary of duh hate.

[OLJWales]

Once a person has been demoralized or successfully subverted presenting them with facts does no good. You can forcefully take them to forced labor camps in socialist paradises and they will still not believe. Only when a military boot is stomping on their balls will their eyes be open.

Paraphrase from former KGB agent Yuri Bezmenov.

Words of Iron.

[dalmuti]

there's a lot of bad offtopic posting going on in this thread to cover up for the fact that you really shouldnt send slur-filled emails out from your work account to other people at work. thats not exactly socialism

[Coach34]

there's a lot of bad offtopic posting going on in this thread to cover up for the fact that you really shouldnt send slur-filled emails out from your work account to other people at work. thats not exactly socialism

No- it's the hypocrisy of the NFL. Gruden said some things he shouldnt have but the NFL employs people that have been arrested for all kinds of crimes yet still have jobs.

[Johnson85]

there's a lot of bad offtopic posting going on in this thread to cover up for the fact that you really shouldnt send slur-filled emails out from your work account to other people at work. thats not exactly socialism

Are there emails to his coworkers too? And he sent them from his ESPN account? I did not realize that.

[BeardoMSU]

Are there emails to his coworkers too? And he sent them from his ESPN account? I did not realize that.

Pretty sure I read that his emails only got flagged because the person he was messaging was under investigation by the NFL, so that's why he came under their radar, fwiw.

[Commercecomet24]

Pretty sure I read that his emails only got flagged because the person he was messaging was under investigation by the NFL, so that's why he came under their radar, fwiw.

Yeah correction(Washington football team)were under investigation for impropriety of some sort and the nfl had gathered some 650,000 emails when they found chucky's emails to Bruce Allen

[Tater]

No- it's the hypocrisy of the NFL. Gruden said some things he shouldnt have but the NFL employs people that have been arrested for all kinds of crimes yet still have jobs.

What-about-ism is a bad hill to not do anything on. It is a fair critique that both Gruden and several others should be gone. Dan Snyder absolutely should not be walking the streets a free man. But him walking free doesn't mean Gruden gets a free pass either.

If your point is the cancel culture mad dog should be aimed at Snyder and several others next, I agree. If your point is that it's not fair that the cancel culture mad dog should have aimed at others first, you're not necessarily wrong, but unfortunately we don't live in a utopia where policing people goes in order from the top down. It's unfortunately super randomly aimed. So it drives conversation nowhere to have whataboutism. Ideally, yes, Snyder should fall first. Tyreek Hill and Kareem Hunt should probably never play a snap again. But arguing that point in defense of Gruden and saying Gruden shouldn't have been cut out until they were because the standard is unfair is somewhat equivalent to saying you can't punish a rapist until you punish the murderer. Just seems like you're arguing in bad faith and aligning yourself with someone who by all purposes is a dipshit to put that in writing.

[BeardoMSU]

No- it's the hypocrisy of the NFL. Gruden said some things he shouldnt have but the NFL employs people that have been arrested for all kinds of crimes yet still have jobs.

Well, Kap doesn't have a job...and he didn't kill or choke anyone, lol....he's out of a job because he's a dumb ass who's value doesn't compute with the hassle he'll bring to the table. The NFL is a business. This isn't a Con vs Lib game they're playing. They make decisions (often gambles) on what they think is the appropriate path forward. We all can discuss/disagree with all of that, but it is what it is. As I already said, I didn't even think Gruden should be punished for the emails that were initially leaked. Granted a lot more have apparently come out (I haven't read them, btw, so I don't really know how "bad" they may be), but obviously a decision was made. It's also worth noting that he resigned, not fired, though in the end I suppose it doesn't really matter.

[BeardoMSU]

Yeah correction(Washington football team)were under investigation for impropriety of some sort and the nfl had gathered some 650,000 emails when they found chucky's emails to Bruce Allen

That's it. Thanks, CC.

[dalmuti]

No- it's the hypocrisy of the NFL. Gruden said some things he shouldnt have but the NFL employs people that have been arrested for all kinds of crimes yet still have jobs.

you embarrass the shield at your own risk. no hypocrisy there. did these legions of arrestees send emails or other electronic records calling various parties slurs? does not appear so QED

[Johnson85]

What-about-ism is a bad hill to not do anything on. It is a fair critique that both Gruden and several others should be gone. Dan Snyder absolutely should not be walking the streets a free man. But him walking free doesn't mean Gruden gets a free pass either.

If your point is the cancel culture mad dog should be aimed at Snyder and several others next, I agree. If your point is that it's not fair that the cancel culture mad dog should have aimed at others first, you're not necessarily wrong, but unfortunately we don't live in a utopia where policing people goes in order from the top down. It's unfortunately super randomly aimed. So it drives conversation nowhere to have whataboutism. Ideally, yes, Snyder should fall first. Tyreek Hill and Kareem Hunt should probably never play a snap again. But arguing that point in defense of Gruden and saying Gruden shouldn't have been cut out until they were because the standard is unfair is somewhat equivalent to saying you can't punish a rapist until you punish the murderer. Just seems like you're arguing in bad faith and aligning yourself with someone who by all purposes is a dipshit to put that in writing.

My problem is the way his emails have been portrayed. People are calling his email about the NFLPU rep racist without any solid evidence. The guys lips are massive. It's a little juvenile to make fun of somebody's appearance, but the fact that some racists like to stereotype a particular physical feature shouldn't damn somebody making a comment on an individual. A coworker of mine got lip injections and she looked awful, and I certainly thought, even if I didn't say it, that her lips looked huge. If she had been african american, I don't think it would have occurred to me that it was somehow racist to notice that her lips were abnormally large. Gruden certainly could be a racist, but I don't think him criticizing an individual african american's looks really justifies calling him that without some supporting evidence.

On referring to Michael Sams as queer, I'm sure Gruden didn't mean it in a nice way, but that's not exactly a verboten word. Lots of people identify as queer and use it in a non-derogatory way (and did so in the 2000's).

I'm guessing that his emails probably have worse in them, and that's whey he is resigning and he's hoping they won't become public, but that's just a guess. I certainly wouldnt' trust the people reviewing them to portray them accurately.

[dalmuti]

My problem is the way his emails have been portrayed. People are calling his email about the NFLPU rep racist without any solid evidence. The guys lips are massive. It's a little juvenile to make fun of somebody's appearance, but the fact that some racists like to stereotype a particular physical feature shouldn't damn somebody making a comment on an individual. A coworker of mine got lip injections and she looked awful, and I certainly thought, even if I didn't say it, that her lips looked huge. If she had been african american, I don't think it would have occurred to me that it was somehow racist to notice that her lips were abnormally large. Gruden certainly could be a racist, but I don't think him criticizing an individual african american's looks really justifies calling him that without some supporting evidence.

On referring to Michael Sams as queer, I'm sure Gruden didn't mean it in a nice way, but that's not exactly a verboten word. Lots of people identify as queer and use it in a non-derogatory way (and did so in the 2000's).

I'm guessing that his emails probably have worse in them, and that's whey he is resigning and he's hoping they won't become public, but that's just a guess. I certainly wouldnt' trust the people reviewing them to portray them accurately.

you're really going with the "mocking a black man for having big lips aint racist" defense? its one of the oldest and most pernicious racist tropes in the game, my dude, and you know it

[The Federalist Engineer]

Haha, fair point on Indiana Jones...though I will add that his actions are quite representative of how archaeology was done during that time.

Indiana Jones does not think Black Lives Matter.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/RlrngobuyxuOH9u7Cb/200.gif

[BeardoMSU]

Indiana Jones does not think Black Lives Matter.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/RlrngobuyxuOH9u7Cb/200.gif

That scene was actually improvised by Harrison, btw. There was supposed to be a big fight sequence with the sword guy, but Harrison was tired after a long day of shooting, so he asked Spielberg, "Hey, how bout I just shoot the guy and walk away?". Great touch to the character, in a similar way as Han shooting Greedo in cold-blood at the Tatooine cantina.

[Coach34]

you embarrass the shield at your own risk. no hypocrisy there. did these legions of arrestees send emails or other electronic records calling various parties slurs? does not appear so QED

Tampa is removing him from their Ring of Honor

OJ is still on Buffalo’s Wall of Fame


It’s complete hypocrisy

[The Federalist Engineer]

you're really going with the "mocking a black man for having big lips aint racist" defense? its one of the oldest and most pernicious racist tropes in the game, my dude, and you know it

If your chosen profession is +75% managing Black folks, those are the players and/or you need to recruit the same demographic to your college, then you cannot have a reputation for disrespecting that group. By the way, a football coach should know it better than most people. You should also understand Machiavellian enemies in such a competitive industry. It's not cancellation, it's a mental humble.

You are bad at your job to have written the email. Especially as every person on Earth knows, race relations are a big deal in the USA. You can do it in Japan, Argentina, Thailand, Turkey, Russia, or Mexico cause they don't care about that stuff. In the USA, it's the end of the road.

[OLJWales]

there's a lot of bad offtopic posting going on in this thread to cover up for the fact that you really shouldnt send slur-filled emails out from your work account to other people at work. thats not exactly socialism

The number of children getting raped tonight due to our open borders distracts me from a coach's emails.

[dalmuti]

The number of children getting raped tonight due to our open borders distracts me from a coach's emails.

if you know where all the children are getting raped and all you do about it is post on the internet, then you're part of the problem

anyway, i whipped up a little visual aid to help you accept the truth. joe biden is not only the President of the United States of America (he won); he's also "America's Head Coach"

https://i.imgur.com/KPtrD57.png

namaste

[somebodyshotmypaw]

If your chosen profession is +75% managing Black folks, those are the players and/or you need to recruit the same demographic to your college, then you cannot have a reputation for disrespecting that group.

Fair point. But why is the league 75% black? I think we need diversity. Maybe we could have a Rooney rule or affirmative action. Clearly the league is discriminating against non-blacks. There is no way all these black players are in the league due to merit. I think Blaine Gabbert should be given Lamar Jackson?s job. It doesn?t matter that Gabbert doesn?t deserve it. It?s about equality. Lamar Jackson is using his black privilege. (See how stupid this sounds)

[AROB44]

Fair point. But why is the league 75% black? I think we need diversity. Maybe we could have a Rooney rule or affirmative action. Clearly the league is discriminating against non-blacks. There is no way all these black players are in the league due to merit. I think Blaine Gabbert should be given Lamar Jackson?s job. It doesn?t matter that Gabbert doesn?t deserve it. It?s about equality. Lamar Jackson is using his black privilege. (See how stupid this sounds)

Are you really serious?

[TUSK]

Fair point. But why is the league 75% black? I think we need diversity. Maybe we could have a Rooney rule or affirmative action. Clearly the league is discriminating against non-blacks. There is no way all these black players are in the league due to merit. I think Blaine Gabbert should be given Lamar Jackson?s job. It doesn?t matter that Gabbert doesn?t deserve it. It?s about equality. Lamar Jackson is using his black privilege. (See how stupid this sounds)

well executed....

[dalmuti]

Fair point. But why is the league 75% black? I think we need diversity. Maybe we could have a Rooney rule or affirmative action. Clearly the league is discriminating against non-blacks. There is no way all these black players are in the league due to merit. I think Blaine Gabbert should be given Lamar Jackson?s job. It doesn?t matter that Gabbert doesn?t deserve it. It?s about equality. Lamar Jackson is using his black privilege. (See how stupid this sounds)

this is a good example of some stupid crap you dont put in a work email

[Tater]

My problem is the way his emails have been portrayed. People are calling his email about the NFLPU rep racist without any solid evidence. The guys lips are massive. It's a little juvenile to make fun of somebody's appearance, but the fact that some racists like to stereotype a particular physical feature shouldn't damn somebody making a comment on an individual. A coworker of mine got lip injections and she looked awful, and I certainly thought, even if I didn't say it, that her lips looked huge. If she had been african american, I don't think it would have occurred to me that it was somehow racist to notice that her lips were abnormally large. Gruden certainly could be a racist, but I don't think him criticizing an individual african american's looks really justifies calling him that without some supporting evidence.

On referring to Michael Sams as queer, I'm sure Gruden didn't mean it in a nice way, but that's not exactly a verboten word. Lots of people identify as queer and use it in a non-derogatory way (and did so in the 2000's).

I'm guessing that his emails probably have worse in them, and that's whey he is resigning and he's hoping they won't become public, but that's just a guess. I certainly wouldnt' trust the people reviewing them to portray them accurately.

There's a reason he didn't have to step down of the Smith comment, but absolutely had to step down over the plethora of others. The first one, the general public didn't believe it came from a place of racism. The rest show a much cleaner picture.

From the bits I've seen (especially the forced topless cheerleader stunt), Gruden / Allen / Snyder and anyone involved should be excommunicado. But generally a lot of the other emails leaked are baaaaaaaad. FWIW I don't think Gruden is necessarily racist, but the mounds of evidence towards sexist and homophobic make it hard for him to ever be employable again. Especially since LGBT+ is a more protected group than Black America.

As Herm Edwards says, "DONT HIT SEND!"

[somebodyshotmypaw]

this is a good example of some stupid crap you dont put in a work email

Yes it’s stupid. But this is put in company policies every day. It’s just reversed. Hire this color or that color regardless of merit. Hire a certain percentage of minorities regardless of merit. The city, state, and federal government do it. Private companies do it. And it’s celebrated. The NFL does it by requiring you interview a minority coach, regardless of merit. I’m just showing you how stupid it is.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Are you really serious?

No, I’m not serious. I believe in merit. I’m showing you how stupid these policies are. They are used every day in government and private companies. Hire diversity, or this race, or this gender. Merit be damned. Most government contracts require a certain percentage of minority participation. Merit is never mentioned.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

this is a good example of some stupid crap you dont put in a work email

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-unitedarlns-jobs/united-airlines-prepares-to-shake-up-white-male-dominated-pilot-population-idUSKBN2BT1FX

United announced it rather than putting it in an email. And they were celebrated.

[OLJWales]

if you know where all the children are getting raped and all you do about it is post on the internet, then you're part of the problem

anyway, i whipped up a little visual aid to help you accept the truth. joe biden is not only the President of the United States of America (he won); he's also "America's Head Coach"

https://i.imgur.com/KPtrD57.png

namaste

Do we no longer have a terminator?

How did I get banned for a year while this satanic BS is allowed to continue?

[dalmuti]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-unitedarlns-jobs/united-airlines-prepares-to-shake-up-white-male-dominated-pilot-population-idUSKBN2BT1FX

United announced it rather than putting it in an email. And they were celebrated.

thats a sound recruiting strategy. also, there did not appear to be any slur-riddled emails in that article. really top notch

[Coach34]

The US has lost its mind and other countries are making fun of us.

I am loving Dave Chappelle right now. They are on his ass because he dared say gender was a real thing. He has F-U money so he can say it and doesnt care. I also loved his response- "Twitter isnt real. IDGAF."

People crying on ESPN Sunday over a 10 year old email just shows where this ridiculousness has arrived at. Words hurting this softass society will continue to be its detriment. We will learn when we lose a major war thats coming because we are projecting such weakness now.

[dalmuti]

you should take that whiny crap over to gab or parlr or whatever the boomer brainrot site of the week is this week

[R2Dawg]

The US has lost its mind and other countries are making fun of us.

I am loving Dave Chappelle right now. They are on his ass because he dared say gender was a real thing. He has F-U money so he can say it and doesnt care. I also loved his response- "Twitter isnt real. IDGAF."

People crying on ESPN Sunday over a 10 year old email just shows where this ridiculousness has arrived at. Words hurting this softass society will continue to be its detriment. We will learn when we lose a major war thats coming because we are projecting such weakness now.

True. It has been said America will no longer be great when America is no longer good. We have lost our way as a nation. We have abandoned everything that made us great. We have been a beacon for liberty and justice for free men. This is why all peoples of the world want to come here. We have been the hope of a better life. Now we are becoming the most totalitarian culture on the planet.

Don't know exactly what Gruden said and he probably said some things he shouldn't. Don't we all. Are we all going to be fired from our jobs? Someone stop the insanity and tyranny.

[Coach34]

you should take that whiny crap over to gab or parlr or whatever the boomer brainrot site of the week is this week

We just got embarressed by the Taliban. To act like we dont have problems is lunacy.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

thats a sound recruiting strategy. also, there did not appear to be any slur-riddled emails in that article. really top notch

There were no slurs in my post about getting more diversity in the NFL and promoting a player over a far more deserving player, but you thought it was stupid. So it’s not really about slurs.

It’s not about slurs. You can say “he’s fast for a white boy”. But you can’t say “he’s smart for a black guy”. Why is one right and one wrong? Why? Can’t white folks be equally fast and black folks be equally smart?

[R2Dawg]

you should take that whiny crap over to gab or parlr or whatever the boomer brainrot site of the week is this week

Ha, Ha. That is funny on content alone but real funny coming from a poster with 49 posts (half on this thread) to a poster with over 24,000.

[R2Dawg]

There were no slurs in my post about getting more diversity in the NFL and promoting a player over a far more deserving player, but you thought it was stupid. So it’s not really about slurs.

Everyone wants equity until it affects the protected group.

[Coach34]

Everyone wants equity until it affects the protected group.

yep

[OLJWales]

Scooba: please consider dishing out equality . the SOB on this thread is 10X worse than my infraction that cost me 12 months of hard time.

Moan Maine.

[Hot Rock]

Anyone saying what he said would be fired in a nanosecond at most corporate jobs.

If you can?t understand it?s not ok to be a racist, homophobic prick as a public figure then you must be among the stupidest people on the planet.

[Coach34]

Anyone saying what he said would be fired in a nanosecond at most corporate jobs.

If you can?t understand it?s not ok to be a racist, homophobic prick as a public figure then you must be among the stupidest people on the planet.

a) He didnt say it at his current job. Nobody is defending what he said. Nobody thinks he was right. So are you saying he should never be allowed to work again?

b) Words are one thing. They are words. The NfL employs people that have committed felonies. Tampa Bay stated today they will remove Gruden from their Ring of Honor after signing Richard Sherman a couple of weeks ago who is currently charged with assault of his wife/girlfriend. Think about the hypocrisy of that. A guy said something mean vs a guy that the police arrested for abusing a woman.

[BeardoMSU]

We just got embarressed by the Taliban.

Sure...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9C6_5aUUAAYYP7.jpg

[R2Dawg]

Anyone saying what he said would be fired in a nanosecond at most corporate jobs.

If you can?t understand it?s not ok to be a racist, homophobic prick as a public figure then you must be among the stupidest people on the planet.

Do you know what he said? I haven't seen it.

There are sorry people employed everywhere. None of us are without flaws. Sounds like you got plenty of hate in you too.

Should you be fired or is it just certain sins? The double standard is the issue. No one is saying being hateful is good or acceptable.

[dalmuti]

Scooba: please consider dishing out equality . the SOB on this thread is 10X worse than my infraction that cost me 12 months of hard time.

Moan Maine.

Words hurting this softass society will continue to be its detriment

[R2Dawg]

Sure...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9C6_5aUUAAYYP7.jpg

So what does that mean? Two guys dressed different, OK

[R2Dawg]

Words hurting this softass society will continue to be its detriment

Confused, you were the one carrying the water for the society?? It is just words right?

[BeardoMSU]

So what does that mean? Two guys dressed different, OK

I take it you don't follow foreign policy much, eh?

[dalmuti]

I take it you don't follow foreign policy much, eh?

facts don't penetrate the Fox News Cinematic Universe

donnie talked a big game about doing the right thing in afghanistan, but ultimately didnt have the stones. iron joe said "git'r done"

[R2Dawg]

I take it you don't follow foreign policy much, eh?

You can't answer the question? Was that pict a policy statement? What did it say?

Did you sleep through the Afghan debacle? Who was President?

It is called accountability not blame everyone else who is not in charge. Yall got to do that the previous 4 years.

Biden owns this mess.

[R2Dawg]

facts don't penetrate the Fox News Cinematic Universe

donnie talked a big game about doing the right thing in afghanistan, but ultimately didnt have the stones. iron joe said "git'r done"

If by get it done you mean, leave billions of dollars of our weapons to our enemies

Get done by leaving American citizens behind enemy lines to die

Get it done by bringing thousands of our enemies in our country with no vetting

These are all facts.

And you are proud of this?

[BeardoMSU]

You can't answer the question? Was that pict a policy statement? What did it say?

Did you sleep through the Afghan debacle? Who was President?

It is called accountability not blame everyone else who is not in charge. Yall got to do that the previous 4 years.

Biden owns this mess.

Huh? Holy cow.

So you don't know who these two guy are? And you're accusing me of sleeping, lol?

[dalmuti]

they call afghanistan "the graveyard of empires" for a reason yall

the very embodiment of the sunk cost fallacy

[R2Dawg]

Huh? Holy cow.

So you don't know who these two guy are? And you're accusing me of sleeping, lol?

You can't answer my question. I know who they are but so what. We told them what we were gonna do and if they messed with us in the process we would destroy them.

You can't answer my simple question. You ain't as smart as you think you are.

[R2Dawg]

they call afghanistan "the graveyard of empires" for a reason yall

the very embodiment of the sunk cost fallacy

That is your defense of Biden mess while leaving? Really

Joe get r dun caused every bit off the mess all by himself. Own it. No one is saying the US made all the right moves over Rep and Dem presidents. But the embarrassing exit is all on Joe, all by himself.

Own it.

[BeardoMSU]

You can't answer my question. I know who they are but so what. We told them what we were gonna do and if they messed with us in the process we would destroy them.

You can't answer my simple question. You ain't as smart as you think you are.

That's not how it went down, R2D2.

[OLJWales]

17 bush sr, bush Jr,Obama And Biden. 17 Trump for 17ing with Assad. All of them are fools compared to TJ's words after our first war after our independence revolution. He said in no way would a viable relationship EVAH exist between them and. Us Christian folk.

What a dumbass he was, no?

[Dawgfan77]

you should take that whiny crap over to gab or parlr or whatever the boomer brainrot site of the week is this week

Dan the man is back guys. Gets banned then comes up with a new email new user name same old agenda. What other kinds of lies and stories will we see from him now?

[Johnson85]

you're really going with the "mocking a black man for having big lips aint racist" defense? its one of the oldest and most pernicious racist tropes in the game, my dude, and you know it

Other people apparently aren't as racist as you and/or don't hang around racists as much as you. I was aware of the trope but until this popped up, I don't think I had heard or thought about it this century. It's not exactly front of mind. And if Smith walked by and somebody said, "damn, look at those lips", I wouldn't have thought they were being racist. I would have looked and thought, damn, those are big lips.

[Johnson85]

they call afghanistan "the graveyard of empires" for a reason yall

the very embodiment of the sunk cost fallacy

You're misusing the sunk cost fallacy. The sunk cost fallacy doesn't mean you say 17it and make a bad situation worse. It means you ignore costs that are already incurred when weighing your decision.

"We've already shed a lot of blood and spent a lot of money in afghanistan, 17it, let's leave without a plan and make sure we leave tangible and human assets for the Taliban" is how a 17ing moron applies the sunk cost fallacy.

"It doesn't matter how much blood and money we've spent in afghanistan, the benefits don't justify a continued presence, let's establish a plan for an orderly withdrawal, coordinated with allies, that ensures we get important assets out and destroys any military equipment that can't removed" is how a person with functioning brain cells would apply the sunk cost fallacy.

[Tater]

Back to the topic at hand though. Schefter is next on the email shit list. This could be a methodical and surgical culling of the herd. Dan Snyder about to sacrifice everyone to distract people from being mad at him. For some reason it's keeping the mad barking dog that is cancel culture off of him. Makes me believe it's not a "lib-insider" thing as some like to say but rather a "billionaire's club".

[dalmuti]

You're misusing the sunk cost fallacy. The sunk cost fallacy doesn't mean you say 17it and make a bad situation worse. It means you ignore costs that are already incurred when weighing your decision.

"We've already shed a lot of blood and spent a lot of money in afghanistan, 17it, let's leave without a plan and make sure we leave tangible and human assets for the Taliban" is how a 17ing moron applies the sunk cost fallacy.

"It doesn't matter how much blood and money we've spent in afghanistan, the benefits don't justify a continued presence, let's establish a plan for an orderly withdrawal, coordinated with allies, that ensures we get important assets out and destroys any military equipment that can't removed" is how a person with functioning brain cells would apply the sunk cost fallacy.

we're out and no one has an appetite to go back in. thats a win. also no one votes based on foreign policy stuff so your whining is in vain, my guy

[Johnson85]

we're out and no one has an appetite to go back in. thats a win. also no one votes based on foreign policy stuff so your whining is in vain, my guy

Man, you are outing yourself as quite the piece of shit. Unnecessarily getting lots of people killed and/or tortured and also leaving billions of dollars of weapons with the Taliban is not a win. Why would you want more people killed when we all we had to do was take time to put somebody minimally competent in charge of the withdrawal? They could have hired a random middle manager from FedEx with no knowledge of military operations and done better. It's not like they had to expend any political capital to avoid getting people killed. It's perplexing why they decided to not put even minimal effort into it.

[R2Dawg]

we're out and no one has an appetite to go back in. thats a win. also no one votes based on foreign policy stuff so your whining is in vain, my guy

No one is arguing to stay in, it was about the pathetic leadership and execution on the way out. I don't care who is President if they execute like that, you can't be for it. And your answer is no one votes on foreign policy stuff?

Better wake up, our commander and chief abandon Americans like you to the enemy. It will be you next time, even if you voted for him. Honor, respect and dignity have been abandoned.

[R2Dawg]

That's not how it went down, R2D2.

Were you there?

Then just how did it go down since you are so smart? Spill it.

I heard if from the man's own lips by video not in person.

You have brought no facts only insults and changing the subject which is what leftist do cause they got nothing. Truth always prevails.

[dalmuti]

Man, you are outing yourself as quite the piece of shit. Unnecessarily getting lots of people killed and/or tortured and also leaving billions of dollars of weapons with the Taliban is not a win. Why would you want more people killed when we all we had to do was take time to put somebody minimally competent in charge of the withdrawal? They could have hired a random middle manager from FedEx with no knowledge of military operations and done better. It's not like they had to expend any political capital to avoid getting people killed. It's perplexing why they decided to not put even minimal effort into it.

now do the previous 20 years of unnecessarily getting lots of people killed and/or tortured and letting bin laden waltz right out of the country. if its a bunch of poop you're smelling, check your upper lip

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Were you there?

Then just how did it go down since you are so smart? Spill it.

I heard if from the man's own lips by video not in person.

You have brought no facts only insults and changing the subject which is what leftist do cause they got nothing. Truth always prevails.

Careful R2, he's a professor. He knows more than you and me. We just can't get on his level.

Goodness forbid people have careers that are more knowledgeable than what somebody reads on a website to form their opinion.

We will back in some conflict within the next 5 years. It pays too much not to.

[MaroonFlounder]

facts don't penetrate the Fox News Cinematic Universe

donnie talked a big game about doing the right thing in afghanistan, but ultimately didnt have the stones. iron joe said "git'r done"

It's the WAY he "got r done" that is the problem. Stop watching CNN

[BeardoMSU]

Were you there?

Then just how did it go down since you are so smart? Spill it.

I heard if from the man's own lips by video not in person.

You have brought no facts only insults and changing the subject which is what leftist do cause they got nothing. Truth always prevails.

When did I change the subject, lol?

C34 mentioned the "Taliban" and "embarrassment", and I simply pointed to a recent event of said embarrassment. Is it the only embarrassment to come out of the Afghanistan debacle, hell no, but to just slide past it like it doesn't matter is absurd.

Me asking you who those 2 people are is also apropos to the discussion; kinda the whole point, actually. It's not me insulting you. It matters.

And just how did I insult you? I didn't call you any names? I assumed, perhaps wrongfully, that your "R2" handle was derived from a beloved Star Wars character that also shares those letters.

And I would think we've learned to not take politicians at their word ("I heard it from the mans lips...by video")...what they say to the cameras at a press conference or at a political rally don't often line up with reality, no?

[BeardoMSU]

Careful R2, he's a professor. He knows more than you and me. We just can't get on his level.

Goodness forbid people have careers that are more knowledgeable than what somebody reads on a website to form their opinion.

We will back in some conflict within the next 5 years. It pays too much not to.

Oh, FFS.

You must be in love, because you're always coming at me. What did I do/say that has you so hot and bothered?

Also, where is this "professor" crap coming from? Unless I'm mistaken, the ONLY time I've ever argued from a point of AUTHORITY (i.e., leaning on my credentials/education/skills/training/etc.) was years ago during a discussion on the age of the Earth that devolved into a misinformed trashing of radiocarbon dating. Other than that, I've been just another asshole behind a keyboard...just like you :cool:.

[dalmuti]

here's the facts: afghan withdrawal has been incredibly popular for a long time. it's still incredibly popular despite all the bedwetting and virtue signalling going on in this thread. yall should go back to posting about sports because reasoned political analysis is not exactly yall's forte

[Commercecomet24]

Oh, FFS.

You must be in love, because you're always coming at me. What did I do/say that has you so hot and bothered?

Also, where is this "professor" crap coming from? Unless I'm mistaken, the ONLY time I've ever argued from a point of AUTHORITY (i.e., leaning on my credentials/education/skills/training/etc.) was years ago during a discussion on the age of the Earth that devolved into a misinformed trashing of radiocarbon dating. Other than that, I've been just another asshole behind a keyboard...just like you :cool:.

Did you just call yourself an a******? lol!

[BeardoMSU]

Did you just call yourself an a******? lol!

Damnit, you hacked my account again!**

[Coach34]

here's the facts: afghan withdrawal has been incredibly popular for a long time. it's still incredibly popular despite all the bedwetting and virtue signalling going on in this thread. yall should go back to posting about sports because reasoned political analysis is not exactly yall's forte

A) Nobody has argued about leaving. Everybody wanted us out of there. So you can stop with that.

B) The problem is how it was done. Biden needed something positive to crow about and turned it into an absolute cluster. Any idiot knows you withdraw the troops last after removing people and machinery. But not Brandon. Brandon's idiotic decision cost us lives and billions of dollars

C) Anybody supporting open borders, green new deal without the technology, pronoun people, defunding the police, and moving to socialism has no reasoned political analysis.

[Commercecomet24]

Damnit, you hacked my account again!**

I am a technological genius, man!******

[Maverick91]

Oh, FFS.

You must be in love, because you're always coming at me. What did I do/say that has you so hot and bothered?

Also, where is this "professor" crap coming from? Unless I'm mistaken, the ONLY time I've ever argued from a point of AUTHORITY (i.e., leaning on my credentials/education/skills/training/etc.) was years ago during a discussion on the age of the Earth that devolved into a misinformed trashing of radiocarbon dating. Other than that, I've been just another asshole behind a keyboard...just like you :cool:.

I was not here for this, but, man I wish I was, would have loved to have seen this back and forth.

[BeardoMSU]

I was not here for this, but, man I wish I was, would have loved to have seen this back and forth.

No you don't, lol.

[Hot Rock]

a) He didnt say it at his current job. Nobody is defending what he said. Nobody thinks he was right. So are you saying he should never be allowed to work again?

b) Words are one thing. They are words. The NfL employs people that have committed felonies. Tampa Bay stated today they will remove Gruden from their Ring of Honor after signing Richard Sherman a couple of weeks ago who is currently charged with assault of his wife/girlfriend. Think about the hypocrisy of that. A guy said something mean vs a guy that the police arrested for abusing a woman.

I'll bite.. Nobody said he can't work, he can head right down to your local supermarket and bag groceries all day long for be McD's fry cook. He just shouldn't be the face of your multi-billion $ organization. No corporation worth it's salt will have a dude that stupid as it's face of the organization. Sure, there are plenty of rich people behind the scenes that act just like that but no one knows their names . Hypocritical? Yep, but if you live a public life, you have to know this stuff.

Richard Sherman.. That is what about-ism - Both can be wrong and Tampa Bay can be wrong as well for hiring him. Other than that, I don't know jack about Richard's situation.

[dalmuti]

A) Nobody has argued about leaving. Everybody wanted us out of there. So you can stop with that.

B) The problem is how it was done. Biden needed something positive to crow about and turned it into an absolute cluster. Any idiot knows you withdraw the troops last after removing people and machinery. But not Brandon. Brandon's idiotic decision cost us lives and billions of dollars

C) Anybody supporting open borders, green new deal without the technology, pronoun people, defunding the police, and moving to socialism has no reasoned political analysis.

[citation-needed]

[MaroonFlounder]

But back to the original subject. I haven't seen the Gruden e-mails, but have heard people talk about anti-gay comments.

Gruden had one of the only openly gay players in the NFL on his team. That would be DE Carl Nassib.

[BeardoMSU]

But back to the original subject. I haven't seen the Gruden e-mails, but have heard people talk about anti-gay comments.

Gruden had one of the only openly gay players in the NFL on his team. That would be DE Carl Nassib.

Yeah, a whole bunch of emails have come out since the initial one containing the big lips comment. He pretty much runs the gamut of shitty words and phrases and received (circulated?) nude photos of the Washington cheerleaders.

[dalmuti]

see, corporate emails are like a gom jabbar. best not to let gooddell get that sharp needle up against your neck sending slurs out in the first place. prescience

[BeardoMSU]

see, corporate emails are like a gom jabbar.

Fear is the mind-killer...**

[somebodyshotmypaw]

I'll bite.. Nobody said he can't work, he can head right down to your local supermarket and bag groceries all day long for be McD's fry cook. He just shouldn't be the face of your multi-billion $ organization. No corporation worth it's salt will have a dude that stupid as it's face of the organization. Sure, there are plenty of rich people behind the scenes that act just like that but no one knows their names . Hypocritical? Yep, but if you live a public life, you have to know this stuff.

Greg Popovich proves you are wrong. Just like Gruden, he is a head coach. He can call our president nasty names, talk about conservatives, and call the United States an embarrassment to the world. Nothing is done.

[dalmuti]

Greg Popovich proves you are wrong. Just like Gruden, he is a head coach. He can call our president nasty names, talk about conservatives, and call the United States an embarrassment to the world. Nothing is done.

i bing'd "greg popovich racist emails" and didnt see anything in the first 10 pages to indicate he's been sending our slur-riddled emails from his coach or work accounts. looks like he's on the up and up

[BeardoMSU]

i bing'd "greg popovich racist emails" and didnt see anything in the first 10 pages to indicate he's been sending our slur-riddled emails from his coach or work accounts. looks like he's on the up and up

Someone criticized a POTUS? Oh, my!!!...[insert 'clutch pearls' emoji]. The Dixie Chicks say h....oh, wait...never mind....I forgot that "cancel culture" is only a phenomenon of the libs.**

[somebodyshotmypaw]

i bing'd "greg popovich racist emails" and didnt see anything in the first 10 pages to indicate he's been sending our slur-riddled emails from his coach or work accounts. looks like he's on the up and up

Pop did not insult a race. He insulted an entire country. I don’t want Pop canceled. But I also don’t like double standards.

[dalmuti]

Someone criticized a POTUS? Oh, my!!!...[insert 'clutch pearls' emoji]. The Dixie Chicks say h....oh, wait...never mind....I forgot that "cancel culture" is only a phenomenon of the libs.**

bill oreilly cancelled ludacris for calling him a dingus in a rap song

[dalmuti]

Pop did not insult a race. He insulted an entire country. I don’t want Pop canceled. But I also don’t like double standards.

thats not a double standard. i'm sorry the beard man hurt your feelings tho. i suggest growing up

[R2Dawg]

When did I change the subject, lol?

C34 mentioned the "Taliban" and "embarrassment", and I simply pointed to a recent event of said embarrassment. Is it the only embarrassment to come out of the Afghanistan debacle, hell no, but to just slide past it like it doesn't matter is absurd.

Me asking you who those 2 people are is also apropos to the discussion; kinda the whole point, actually. It's not me insulting you. It matters.

And just how did I insult you? I didn't call you any names? I assumed, perhaps wrongfully, that your "R2" handle was derived from a beloved Star Wars character that also shares those letters.

And I would think we've learned to not take politicians at their word ("I heard it from the mans lips...by video")...what they say to the cameras at a press conference or at a political rally don't often line up with reality, no?

You have yet to answer my question about the photo because you can't. You tried posting a photo that was supposed to be some embarrassing moment for conservatives and it ain't. They ain't shaking hands or smiling. It likely wasn't a pleasant meeting.

I know who the two people are but so what. Again answer my question. You can't so you keep trying to insult me like I don't know anything about the world stage. I ain't no expert, few are but I know what is going on in the world. I read and listen probably 3 hours a day on the subjects.

I take what I know by actions and the actions I've watched match a lot of the words. Trump ain't no politician that was the greatest thing about him, that and he was a Patriot that loves America not trying to destroy it.

What does a still shot of two leaders show? Still waiting for your answer

[R2Dawg]

thats not a double standard. i'm sorry the beard man hurt your feelings tho. i suggest growing up

So as long as you insult an old white man it is OK. There are a multitude of sins, racism isn't the only one. Racism ain't just white against black either as so many suggest. Double standards everywhere you look.

[dalmuti]

So as long as you insult an old white man it is OK. There are a multitude of sins, racism isn't the only one. Racism ain't just white against black either as so many suggest. Double standards everywhere you look.

if you want to boss around a basketball coach, go buy a basketball team. this is simply the at-will labor market at work.

until you want to pony up the cash to be able to make those decisions, how dare you question the wisdom of our precious job-creators...

[Coach34]

if you want to boss around a basketball coach, go buy a basketball team. this is simply the at-will labor market at work.

Go build your own Twitter!!!!!! (Until Parlor did that and the monopolies banned together to crush it)

[R2Dawg]

if you want to boss around a basketball coach, go buy a basketball team. this is simply the at-will labor market at work.

until you want to pony up the cash to be able to make those decisions, how dare you question the wisdom of our precious job-creators...

What is the world are you talking about?


Back to the double standard and stupidity.

So Gruden taken off the Tampa Bay wall of honor yet Warren Sapp remains after multiple felonies.

So a mans thoughts 10 years ago is worse than criminal behavior. Think about how wrong that is for a minute. Can you defend that? I'd like to hear the explaination.

[dalmuti]

What is the world are you talking about?


Back to the double standard and stupidity.

So Gruden taken off the Tampa Bay wall of honor yet Warren Sapp remains after multiple felonies.

So a mans thoughts 10 years ago is worse than criminal behavior. Think about how wrong that is for a minute. Can you defend that? I'd like to hear the explaination.

dang, if i was bryan glazer i would indeed have some things to answer for

[Hot Rock]

Yep, but he wasn’t wrong, so there is that.

[Hot Rock]

[citation-needed]

Open borders? We need workers, guess what open borders bring? Workers, WOW! What a concept.

[OLJWales]

Open borders? We need workers, guess what open borders bring? Workers, WOW! What a concept.

You have no idea what the 17 you talkin' bout child.

[dalmuti]

You have no idea what the 17 you talkin' bout child.

perhaps it is you that is missing the clue

[Tater]

dang, if i was bryan glazer i would indeed have some things to answer for

You might be on the "right" side of the argument and have good opinions on how to treat people, but man.... you suck at articulating them. You're absolutely horrid at debate. Letting people suck you in to strawman fallacies, flinging ad hominem bs, and being borderline incoherent.

Gruden sucks for his emails and what opinions he apparently held. You suck as a person because you literally don't know how to communicate with someone who thinks differently than you. Is this your first time stepping out of an echo chamber? You make me embarrassed to agree with your general thoughts.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Open borders? We need workers, guess what open borders bring? Workers, WOW! What a concept.

Wow, you need a refund from your Economics educator. Damn.

Or maybe you are still in middle school or something.

[dalmuti]

You might be on the "right" side of the argument and have good opinions on how to treat people, but man.... you suck at articulating them. You're absolutely horrid at debate. Letting people suck you in to strawman fallacies, flinging ad hominem bs, and being borderline incoherent.

Gruden sucks for his emails and what opinions he apparently held. You suck as a person because you literally don't know how to communicate with someone who thinks differently than you. Is this your first time stepping out of an echo chamber? You make me embarrassed to agree with your general thoughts.

have a coke and a smile

[Dawgfan77]

have a coke and a smile

Dan the man help me out here. Can you answer me this. Why are you so hell bent on socialism and communism in America?

[dalmuti]

Dan the man help me out here. Can you answer me this. Why are you so hell bent on socialism and communism in America?

not sure why you're going offtopic. recognizing that sending out racist and homophobic emails at work is a termination offense is not exactly the stuff of a revolutionary vanguard of the proletariat.

there's pretty much no period in american history where shouting slurs at work has been looked favorably upon.

[Maverick91]

not sure why you're going offtopic. recognizing that sending out racist and homophobic emails at work is a termination offense is not exactly the stuff of a revolutionary vanguard of the proletariat.

there's pretty much no period in american history where shouting slurs at work has been looked favorably upon.

In this post you aren't 100% wrong. But, there is a statute of limitations. How far back should people be able to go to dig something up on you? Ten years has passed, I mean really if he hasn't done or said this stuff in ten years, can we not assume that this was a " one off" innocent until proven guilty is still a thing. It is bad in society when you do something wrong and you are canceled for it. Give that person a chance to repent for it and show that they have gotten better. Especially since this was ten years ago.

How many players have raped someone, committed a felony, done way worse than what Gruden said and then they are let off with a slap on the wrist? We have got to stop canceling people, especially for stuff that happens ten years ago. If they have proof that is still says these things, then okay you are within your statute of time. But, not ten years ago.

Edit: Giving people the chance to show that they have changed improves society. It shows that we can forgive, forget, and move on. If we cannot be a forgiving society than we are quickly degrading from America's founding principles.

[dalmuti]

In this post you aren't 100% wrong. But, there is a statute of limitations. How far back should people be able to go to dig something up on you? Ten years has passed, I mean really if he hasn't done or said this stuff in ten years, can we not assume that this was a " one off" innocent until proven guilty is still a thing. It is bad in society when you do something wrong and you are canceled for it. Give that person a chance to repent for it and show that they have gotten better. Especially since this was ten years ago.

How many players have raped someone, committed a felony, done way worse than what Gruden said and then they are let off with a slap on the wrist? We have got to stop canceling people, especially for stuff that happens ten years ago. If they have proof that is still says these things, then okay you are within your statute of time. But, not ten years ago.

Edit: Giving people the chance to show that they have changed improves society. It shows that we can forgive, forget, and move on. If we cannot be a forgiving society than we are quickly degrading from America's founding principles.

"statute of limitations" is a legal thing. as far as im aware gruden has not been arrested for his slur emails. that would be a 1st amendment violation

at-will employment is a conservative idea. sounds like you are trying to have the government tell this private employer who they have to hire and fire. Why are you so hell bent on socialism and communism in America?

[Maverick91]

"statute of limitations" is a legal thing. as far as im aware gruden has not been arrested for his slur emails. that would be a 1st amendment violation

at-will employment is a conservative idea. sounds like you are trying to have the government tell this private employer who they have to hire and fire. Why are you so hell bent on socialism and communism in America?

Your are not comprehending what I am saying. I do not want the government telling anyone what to do outside of the laws that we have already set up via our constitution.

I am saying that we as a society are so quick to just rid ourselves of something or someone for fear that we might get roped into their issues, when non of that has to be the case. It would have been really neat for the Raiders as an organization and Gruden himself to have come out and apologized, talked about what they are doing to change and learn how this type of language is not acceptable even in a private conversation. That would have been much better for them and society as a whole than what actually took place.

[dalmuti]

Your are not comprehending what I am saying. I do not want the government telling anyone what to do outside of the laws that we have already set up via our constitution.

I am saying that we as a society are so quick to just rid ourselves of something or someone for fear that we might get roped into their issues, when non of that has to be the case. It would have been really neat for the Raiders as an organization and Gruden himself to have come out and apologized, talked about what they are doing to change and learn how this type of language is not acceptable even in a private conversation. That would have been much better for them and society as a whole than what actually took place.

actually he simply should have kept his professional communications professional. i know its hard to understand that one's actions can have consequences, but thems the breaks. there's a reason that the higher you go in most orgs, the fewer emails and such are written. it's hard to be crucified for writing slur-filled emails if they never exist in the first place

[Johnson85]

"statute of limitations" is a legal thing. as far as im aware gruden has not been arrested for his slur emails. that would be a 1st amendment violation

at-will employment is a conservative idea. sounds like you are trying to have the government tell this private employer who they have to hire and fire. Why are you so hell bent on socialism and communism in America?

At will employment is a not a conservative idea. It's just a description of a contractual relationship.

[Maverick91]

actually he simply should have kept his professional communications professional. i know its hard to understand that one's actions can have consequences, but thems the breaks. there's a reason that the higher you go in most orgs, the fewer emails and such are written. it's hard to be crucified for writing slur-filled emails if they never exist in the first place

That's what I am saying, lol. Also, are you saying that instead of writing these things he should have just said them? Then its a he said she said moment? Because that hasn't burned anyone lately.

[dalmuti]

At will employment is a not a conservative idea. It's just a description of a contractual relationship.

thats a lie lol

[dalmuti]

That's what I am saying, lol. Also, are you saying that instead of writing these things he should have just said them? Then its a he said she said moment? Because that hasn't burned anyone lately.

i said no such thing. take your strawman elsewhere

[Maverick91]

i said no such thing. take your strawman elsewhere

How is that not what you said? If I miss understood you, please help me understand what you wrote!

[dalmuti]

this thread has been an incredible inspiration: https://imgur.com/a/mwuRp4V

[Dawgfan77]

Just FYI Dalmuti is a troll. This his third user name this year. He was dantheman for a while and was banned. Just pointing that out he loves to argue lie about his escapades and push his agenda.

[Johnson85]

thats a lie lol

Are you trolling here? Or are you really ignorant enough that you don't know what at will employment is?

[OLJWales]

Just FYI Dalmuti is a troll. This his third user name this year. He was dantheman for a while and was banned. Just pointing that out he loves to argue lie about his escapades and push his agenda.

No way he's A Dog then. JMHO.

[NWADAWG]

The Left has good ideas but worse leadership than SlowMo JoMo and it makes them suck.

The only people I know that think the left has good ideas are snowflakes that are offended by everyone that doesn't think just like them and want's them all canceled and people that want free lunches. I literally can't remember the last adult that I've spoken to that believed the left's economic, foreign relations, etc. ideas were good.

Well, I guess there are those that agree with the left on the abortion issue but that's a whole new discussion.

[dalmuti]

Just FYI Dalmuti is a troll. This his third user name this year. He was dantheman for a while and was banned. Just pointing that out he loves to argue lie about his escapades and push his agenda.

wrongo. im dalmuti now and always have been. check the logs, bub. yall need to quit with the fake news

[dalmuti]

The only people I know that think the left has good ideas are snowflakes that are offended by everyone that doesn't think just like them and want's them all canceled and people that want free lunches. I literally can't remember the last adult that I've spoken to that believed the left's economic, foreign relations, etc. ideas were good.

Well, I guess there are those that agree with the left on the abortion issue but that's a whole new discussion.

you must not talk to a lot of adults

[Extendedcab]

you must not talk to a lot of adults

Not your definition of an adult!

[OLJWales]

wrongo. im dalmuti now and always have been. check the logs, bub. yall need to quit with the fake news

Do you typically like bustin into parties uninvited just to a jerk people around?

[dalmuti]

Do you typically like bustin into parties uninvited just to a jerk people around?

Ihre Papiere, bitte?

[TUSK]

Do you typically like bustin into parties uninvited just to a jerk people around?

Yeah, that's my job, dammit!

[BeardoMSU]

Yeah, that's my job, dammit!

Dis u?**

https://c.tenor.com/S3QHtxuxlUMAAAAd/office-milton-waddams.gif

[OLJWales]

Sometimes I can relate. Shiny assed stapler with no pay check

[dalmuti]

https://apnews.com/article/nfl-sports-football-jon-gruden-las-vegas-raiders-f7c5b1e6ef2c4125f5ff56abfcc0dcec?utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter

open and shut case, boys

[msstate7]

https://i.postimg.cc/L6q6Zp4z/E75-F4104-5455-4-E28-931-E-67-F34407-B379.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[OLJWales]

https://i.postimg.cc/L6q6Zp4z/E75-F4104-5455-4-E28-931-E-67-F34407-B379.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Would he consider Vegas? Sign that mutha.

[Tater]

The only people I know that think the left has good ideas are snowflakes that are offended by everyone that doesn't think just like them and want's them all canceled and people that want free lunches. I literally can't remember the last adult that I've spoken to that believed the left's economic, foreign relations, etc. ideas were good.

Well, I guess there are those that agree with the left on the abortion issue but that's a whole new discussion.

Glad you've been social distancing. It shouldn't be controversial to treat one another with respect and that if you work full time you should be able to have food, shelter, minimum basic needs met. But somehow that's already extremely leftist. On top of that, the thought that society should be geared towards collectively having people "work" and do things they don't want to do as little as possible, so they can, ya know, enjoy life. Somehow that's bad? It's leftist to want that instead of being mindless wage slaves in pursuit of pRoDuCtiViTy.

The policy of trickle down economics is one of the worst ever. Give a billionaire $1000 and it goes to an offshore tax haven. Give a poor person $1000 and it goes towards immediate food, rent, healthcare. Which one of those stimulates the economy? Why is it a bad idea to you that people are one hospital visit away from being ****ed with medical debt for life? If you told your grandparents that you were reading a fictitious book about an alternate reality of the US where housing costs more than 50% of income, college takes a lifetime to repay, families can barely make do with the mom working full time, we're locked in endless wars, and the government was paralyzed by crisis... they'd think in this book the US lost the Cold War. And then you drop the truth that that is society today for the majority.

So yea, until the right gets it's shit together on treating people like a decent human being, the left has good ideas. So what if that aligns me with LGBT+ or abortionists. Social issues take a back-burner until the right can believe in policies that treat people like decent human beings.

[Matt3467]

Glad you've been social distancing. It shouldn't be controversial to treat one another with respect and that if you work full time you should be able to have food, shelter, minimum basic needs met. But somehow that's already extremely leftist. On top of that, the thought that society should be geared towards collectively having people "work" and do things they don't want to do as little as possible, so they can, ya know, enjoy life. Somehow that's bad? It's leftist to want that instead of being mindless wage slaves in pursuit of pRoDuCtiViTy.

The policy of trickle down economics is one of the worst ever. Give a billionaire $1000 and it goes to an offshore tax haven. Give a poor person $1000 and it goes towards immediate food, rent, healthcare. Which one of those stimulates the economy? Why is it a bad idea to you that people are one hospital visit away from being ****ed with medical debt for life? If you told your grandparents that you were reading a fictitious book about an alternate reality of the US where housing costs more than 50% of income, college takes a lifetime to repay, families can barely make do with the mom working full time, we're locked in endless wars, and the government was paralyzed by crisis... they'd think in this book the US lost the Cold War. And then you drop the truth that that is society today for the majority.

So yea, until the right gets it's shit together on treating people like a decent human being, the left has good ideas. So what if that aligns me with LGBT+ or abortionists. Social issues take a back-burner until the right can believe in policies that treat people like decent human beings.

That's your perfect case scenario but I know many "poor" people that'll spend that on dope, air jordans, and other things they don't need. You can't paint one side with a broad brush and not the other.

[Tater]

That's your perfect case scenario but I know many "poor" people that'll spend that on dope, air jordans, and other things they don't need. You can't paint one side with a broad brush and not the other.

You say that shit like it's still not circulating back into the economy. Drug dealers gotta eat too. Foot Locker gotta pay the bills. You may not agree with where they send the money to on a micro level, but macro-economically speaking, they still stimulate the economy. So your "counterpoint" is not actually a counterpoint, it just makes my point stronger.

[TUSK]

You say that shit like it's still not circulating back into the economy. Drug dealers gotta eat too. Foot Locker gotta pay the bills. You may not agree with where they send the money to on a micro level, but macro-economically speaking, they still stimulate the economy. So your "counterpoint" is not actually a counterpoint, it just makes my point stronger.

100% correct. Not to mention the LEO dollars to catch a few, the DA dollars to prosecute a few of those.... then, just think of how many illegal handguns a grand will purchase to "bussa cap in dey ass, yo!"

bail bondsmen, undertakers, stats-cats to keep up with the slayin....

GD, that's a decent size segment of the populous....

[Johnson85]

Glad you've been social distancing. It shouldn't be controversial to treat one another with respect and that if you work full time you should be able to have food, shelter, minimum basic needs met. But somehow that's already extremely leftist. That's not controversial. What's leftist is thinking that because you want something to be different, the way to make it different is to ignore reality.



On top of that, the thought that society should be geared towards collectively having people "work" and do things they don't want to do as little as possible, so they can, ya know, enjoy life. Somehow that's bad? It's leftist to want that instead of being mindless wage slaves in pursuit of pRoDuCtiViTy. It's leftist to think that other people should have to work more so that some people can choose to work less. The amount of my time that has essentially been taken from me is bullshit. That said, I have had to pay a lot less in taxes than similarly situated colleagues because I decided to work less and earn less. It's ridiculous that they have to pay more taxes than me because I don't work as hard.


The policy of trickle down economics is one of the worst ever. It's not the worst policy because it isn't a policy; it's a stupid slogan made up by people on the left.


Give a billionaire $1000 and it goes to an offshore tax haven. Give a poor person $1000 and it goes towards immediate food, rent, healthcare. Which one of those stimulates the economy? Billionaires don't bury cash in the back yard. They tend to invest it, which also results in velocity of money. That said, it would be better if we didn't give money to billionaires (which we do a lot of, although not by not taxing them) and gave poor persons money in smarter ways that didn't discourage work and didn't result in high implicit marginal tax rates.


Why is it a bad idea to you that people are one hospital visit away from being ****ed with medical debt for life? If you told your grandparents that you were reading a fictitious book about an alternate reality of the US where housing costs more than 50% of income, college takes a lifetime to repay, families can barely make do with the mom working full time, we're locked in endless wars, and the government was paralyzed by crisis... they'd think in this book the US lost the Cold War. And then you drop the truth that that is society today for the majority. The reason full time workers struggle is because of markets that have been destroyed by government intervention. Sometimes it has been bipartisan (housing), and sometimes it has been primarily driven by the left (healthcare and education). If we allowed markets to work in those areas, you wouldn't have full time workers struggling so much.


So yea, until the right gets it's shit together on treating people like a decent human being, the left has good ideas. So what if that aligns me with LGBT+ or abortionists. Social issues take a back-burner until the right can believe in policies that treat people like decent human beings. The left doesn't like treating people like decent human beings. That's pretty obvious. There are certainly people on the left that advocate for a more generous social safety net, but that's not really what the left is about.

[Tater]

@ Johnson85

1. It is controversial. I can't tell you how many family members I've heard say incorrectly that "the minimum wage was not meant to be a livable wage." It's too damn many. The "reality ignoring" is an argument both sides use to belittle the other. I'll agree to not follow-up with where the conservative conglomerate does the same because we won't agree and that will ruin any potential positive discourse we can have. Deal?

2. This zero sum of work is a misinterpretation. Working shouldn't be a zero sum game. It's not saying that if there's 100 hrs of work need be done between two of us, that I only wanna do 40 and you gotta do 60. I'm questioning that if there really is 100 hrs of work to do.

Question for anyone to weigh in, how many meaningful hours do you put in at your office job? I'd say I'm effective for maybe 15-20 of the 45+ I'm in office. If need be I could get my work done in two 10 hour days for the week and then coast the next three days.

Taxes are not flat. If you make (numbers made up) $50k, you are taxed 25% on the first 40k and 40% on the next 10k. You aren't taxed a solid 40%. Hence tax returns. So being the guy who makes 40k and being in the "25%" tax bracket would in theory net you the same 30k that the 50k gets if they were flat taxed 40%; however, that's not how it's ever worked or it's proposed to work. That would be a bad system. The 50k guy gets 36k after taxes. The higher the income, the higher that bracket should be taxed isn't a controversial take. I guarantee you the average retail employee works harder than Jeff Bezos.

3. What do you call the 2008 Bank Bailouts if not Trickle-Down Economics? Yes it's origin was out of humor, but what should I call that ****ing disgrace of a policy then if not that?

4. We can just have a difference of opinion here because the velocity of money is better served flowing from the bottom upward in my estimation than from the top downward. Stipulating an economy is best done by the people having it change hands with one another, not by having high score chasers flick numbers on a screen. What ever you want to call that velocity of money you can combine into conversation 3/4. It's at its core not sending money through the everyday person's hand. Because how many of these investments are even American anymore.

5. Workers are destroyed because (see John Deere) we tied healthcare to employment and now actively let companies threaten our healthcare legally to keep working. We're too civilized of a nation to have this problem. Canada figured it out. Why can't we?

6. You can sell me on the left fetishizing certain creeds and races and treating them almost as trophies / pets. But that's low on the priority pole for what's important.

[Lord McBuckethead]

nevermind.

[Johnson85]

@ Johnson85

1. It is controversial. I can't tell you how many family members I've heard say incorrectly that "the minimum wage was not meant to be a livable wage." It's too damn many. The "reality ignoring" is an argument both sides use to belittle the other. I'll agree to not follow-up with where the conservative conglomerate does the same because we won't agree and that will ruin any potential positive discourse we can have. Deal? The minimum wage likely would be a livable wage if we let housing, education, and healthcare markets operate. But beyond that, if an adult cannot generate enough value to make more than the minimum wage, the way to help them is not to make it illegal to employ workers below a certain productivity level. The cost of that approach falls on the most vulnerable workers. If you think they need help, help them by subsidizing their employment, not by reducing their job opportunities.


2. This zero sum of work is a misinterpretation. Working shouldn't be a zero sum game. It's not saying that if there's 100 hrs of work need be done between two of us, that I only wanna do 40 and you gotta do 60. I'm questioning that if there really is 100 hrs of work to do. I don't know why you think zero sum has to do with anything. It doesn't matter how much work there is to do between us. It's ludicrous that the person choosing to do more should pay a higher tax rate. I'd say it's ludicrous that they have to pay more taxes period, but if you're going to tax income, I get that there is no good or fair way to do it (which is why it'd be better if we taxed consumption). But certainly, there are better and worse ways to do it, and it seems like a much worse way to do it to essentially take a greater percentage of people's time if they produce more value.


Question for anyone to weigh in, how many meaningful hours do you put in at your office job? I'd say I'm effective for maybe 15-20 of the 45+ I'm in office. If need be I could get my work done in two 10 hour days for the week and then coast the next three days.

Taxes are not flat. If you make (numbers made up) $50k, you are taxed 25% on the first 40k and 40% on the next 10k. You aren't taxed a solid 40%. Hence tax returns. So being the guy who makes 40k and being in the "25%" tax bracket would in theory net you the same 30k that the 50k gets if they were flat taxed 40%; however, that's not how it's ever worked or it's proposed to work. That would be a bad system. The 50k guy gets 36k after taxes. The higher the income, the higher that bracket should be taxed isn't a controversial take. It is a controversial take. Plenty of people recognize that results in really shitty incentives. Plenty of people are ok with the bad incentives, but that doesn't mean that it's not controversial. If it's not controversial, then neither is a flat tax or VAT.


I guarantee you the average retail employee works harder than Jeff Bezos. I seriously doubt the average retail employee has worked harder than Bezos over their respective careers. But regardless, we don't pay people for working hard. While that would be nice if we could and did do that, we mostly pay people for producing value. Luckily, there's a pretty decent correlation between working hard and producing value, hence my reference to similarly situated colleagues. But there are going to be people that work really, really hard and diligently at a task that just has limited productivity gains available (e.g., a hard working waiter may be able to work twice as many tables as the average waiter, but there is a limit to what they can do, and it's probably not going to produce as much value as the typical computer programmer.


3. What do you call the 2008 Bank Bailouts if not Trickle-Down Economics? Yes it's origin was out of humor, but what should I call that ****ing disgrace of a policy then if not that? I would call it crony capitalism that creates moral hazard but possibly was a better policy for the short term..


4. We can just have a difference of opinion here because the velocity of money is better served flowing from the bottom upward in my estimation than from the top downward. Stipulating an economy is best done by the people having it change hands with one another, not by having high score chasers flick numbers on a screen. What ever you want to call that velocity of money you can combine into conversation 3/4. It's at its core not sending money through the everyday person's hand. Because how many of these investments are even American anymore. How that money is invested across countries does matter. It wouldn't matter nearly as much if we didn't run insane deficits, as that money would have to be invested in something productive if it werent' for the constant new supply of government debt, but that doesn't go away just because you are giving money to a less affluent person. Plenty of stimulus money has gone to purchase TVs that have virtually zero American made inputs. Conversely, plenty of investment has gone into domestic capital projects that put a lot of money in the hands of less affluent US residents. It's not at all obvious that giving Chevron a $100M to invest in increasing refinery capacity in Pascagoula is going to result in less velocity within the US than giving $100M to low income people will. It's going to depend on how that money is spent.


5. Workers are destroyed because (see John Deere) we tied healthcare to employment and now actively let companies threaten our healthcare legally to keep working. We're too civilized of a nation to have this problem. Canada figured it out. Why can't we? We tied health insurance to employment because of a stupid tax rule. One of an almost infinite number of examples of bad government policy begetting bad government policy. Canada made a decision they were willing to stop spending as much money on healthcare, even if it meant it would limit availability of care. We are not willing to make those tradeoffs, but are also not willing to allow a market to function (which would require people bear some costs of bad decisions), so we get mostly the worst of both worlds. There are other issues (e.g., we also subsidize drug development for other rich countries because we don't utilize government market power to reduce drug costs), but the main issue is that we won't let markets work but if you don't let markets work and set up a cartel that can control a necessary good, you are going to have to do cost controls or you will see the cartels charging as much as people can bear.


6. You can sell me on the left fetishizing certain creeds and races and treating them almost as trophies / pets. But that's low on the priority pole for what's important.

I'm not talking about fetishizing certain creeds or races or anything. I'm just talking about generally treating people like shit if they have the power to do so.