Honest question for Leach supporters

[R2Dawg]

What is he going to do different to make any of the remaining games any better?

I'd love to have some hope because I don't want this humiliation for MSU but based on decades of Leach history, he ain't changin.

Hope you who are ultimate optimist?

[Bothrops]

Look no further than Hal Mumme's little stint at Belhaven. They may have won more games before he got there. Innovative and such.

[VandelayIndustries]

There can’t be many supporters are there?

[Dawgology]

There can’t be many supporters are there?

We still had idiots supporting Croom when he was canned. Never underestimate State fans ability to accept mediocrity

[Dawg_Lover]

How can anyone defend someone today who plainly failed their team yesterday?!
It is very concerning this may become a pattern going forward. I am struggling to maintain hope, and I cannot help but wonder what the players are thinking.

[Santiago]

I still support him. Seeing that we have left at least 21-28 points a game on the field, from mistakes, misfires, etc.
By end of the year if it is still the same then it is time to reconsider.
His teams improve through the season, so I am curious to see if even half of those points start dropping in for us.

[R2Dawg]

I still support him. Seeing that we have left at least 21-28 points a game on the field, from mistakes, misfires, etc.
By end of the year if it is still the same then it is time to reconsider.
His teams improve through the season, so I am curious to see if even half of those points start dropping in for us.

Thanks for your honesty.

So the answer is play a more perfect game?

Anything else?

[preachermatt83]

Simple. Do exactly what he said in his press conference in post game… Convince will to take chances down the field. We have receivers running open down the field. The offensive system is working. We are not hitting the guys down the feild. We are continually checking down. Our last drive shows exactly what our offense is supposed to look like.

[Quaoarsking]

I've basically idolized the man for 15+ years, so it's going to get really hard for me if this goes South. But we've got to reduce the 1-yard dumpoffs to the RBs and throw downfield more, even if we have a few INTs.

The screwjob from yesterday is such a season-killer, because instead of looking ahead to our matchup with LSU and our chance to get into the top 25, we're wondering whether we're going to make a bowl.

[BeardoMSU]

Our last drive shows exactly what our offense is supposed to look like.

Teams don't usually face "prevent-D's" an entire game, lol. There's are reasons those down-field routes have been open late in games when we were down big...

[R2Dawg]

I've basically idolized the man for 15+ years, so it's going to get really hard for me if this goes South. But we've got to reduce the 1-yard dumpoffs to the RBs and throw downfield more, even if we have a few INTs.

The screwjob from yesterday is such a season-killer, because of looking ahead to our matchup with LSU and our chance to get into the top 25, we're wondering whether we're going to make a bowl.

Yeah I get all the theory of folks saying what Will should do, play a perfect game and all.

My question is what is Leach going to do to fix the issue? If the answer is more of the same like we've seen for 1.5 years then expect more of the same - offensive failure.

Preacher, since it is working I guess your answer is he doesn't have to do anything. Just more of the same. OK

[R2Dawg]

I've basically idolized the man for 15+ years, so it's going to get really hard for me if this goes South. But we've got to reduce the 1-yard dumpoffs to the RBs and throw downfield more, even if we have a few INTs.

The screwjob from yesterday is such a season-killer, because of looking ahead to our matchup with LSU and our chance to get into the top 25, we're wondering whether we're going to make a bowl.

We are the same team win or lose yesterday. A team with an anemic O and one dimensional heading into SEC play. 2-1 or 3-0 forecast don't look good. What is Leach gonna do?

I asked the question before season started and we are getting what I and others said we would get. Same, same, same.

[coachkmb14]

I'll give you an honest answer. We are expecting an immediate success from a program that has had two years of recruiting for this style offense and defense, a year and a part of one of changing the attitude/culture of the team. Reality is that you don't go in and completely remake a program overnight. This team got the screws put to it Saturday by three ABYSMAL calls, but still fought until the final play. This coaching staff and players are making strides in the direction that we want to go, but it takes time. The growth from the start of last year to the end was incredible. If we make the same growth this year, there will be people suffering from foot-in-mouth for giving up this early. You can save this post and tell me I missed if my prediction does not come true but I will say (assuming we stay healthy...we aren't very deep) 1. We win 7-8 games this year, 2. We give Bama and Texas A&M a fight until the final series, 3. We go to a bowl game and win it, 4. We continue to attract a higher level of recruiting talent than we have in the past and develop that talent as we have been doing over the past decade.

This group of guys has played with tons of heart and there has been a noticeable improvement from the start of the season. Continue to support them and the coaching staff....they deserve that much from the fanbase.

And if you are wanting me to give you specifics on the games we will win--Kentucky, Vandy, Tennessee State and LSU I think are solid wins, we beat Ole Miss and Auburn quite probably and I think we have a legit chance against Arkansas....a win at Bama or A&M would be a surprise, but I won't be shocked if we can take A&M.

[Santiago]

Thanks for your honesty.

So the answer is play a more perfect game?

Anything else?

More about, make the 4-5 plays in a game that top teams make. For me so far, we actually can see the plays on the field opening up. I don't remember seeing those big plays develop in the past.
This game now is about making those big plays when they present themselves and usually it is teams with superior talent. I just want to see this system become the equilizer to that issue we will always have against top teams.
Basically - Go make plays. They plays are there. He has freshmen that are his recruits to start filling the gaps

[R2Dawg]

I'll give you an honest answer. We are expecting an immediate success from a program that has had two years of recruiting for this style offense and defense, a year and a part of one of changing the attitude/culture of the team. Reality is that you don't go in and completely remake a program overnight. This team got the screws put to it Saturday by three ABYSMAL calls, but still fought until the final play. This coaching staff and players are making strides in the direction that we want to go, but it takes time. The growth from the start of last year to the end was incredible. If we make the same growth this year, there will be people suffering from foot-in-mouth for giving up this early. You can save this post and tell me I missed if my prediction does not come true but I will say (assuming we stay healthy...we aren't very deep) 1. We win 7-8 games this year, 2. We give Bama and Texas A&M a fight until the final series, 3. We go to a bowl game and win it, 4. We continue to attract a higher level of recruiting talent than we have in the past and develop that talent as we have been doing over the past decade.

This group of guys has played with tons of heart and there has been a noticeable improvement from the start of the season. Continue to support them and the coaching staff....they deserve that much from the fanbase.

And if you are wanting me to give you specifics on the games we will win--Kentucky, Vandy, Tennessee State and LSU I think are solid wins, we beat Ole Miss and Auburn quite probably and I think we have a legit chance against Arkansas....a win at Bama or A&M would be a surprise, but I won't be shocked if we can take A&M.

Wow so you are saying we may still win 10? I can't handle what you are drinking.

[R2Dawg]

More about, make the 4-5 plays in a game that top teams make. For me so far, we actually can see the plays on the field opening up. I don't remember seeing those big plays develop in the past.
This game now is about making those big plays when they present themselves and usually it is teams with superior talent. I just want to see this system become the equilizer to that issue we will always have against top teams.
Basically - Go make plays. They plays are there. He has freshmen that are his recruits to start filling the gaps

OK, that is basically the dream formula for every team in America. Realistically, what will he do? What is Leach going to do to put players in position to make those 4-5 winning plays but suck the rest?

The reason teams make those 4-5 winning plays is because they have 40-50 possible winning plays a game. We don't. Completing 30 passes a game for 2 yards ain't winning plays.

[BeardoMSU]

I'll give you an honest answer. We are expecting an immediate success from a program that has had two years of recruiting for this style offense and defense, a year and a part of one of changing the attitude/culture of the team. Reality is that you don't go in and completely remake a program overnight. This team got the screws put to it Saturday by three ABYSMAL calls, but still fought until the final play. This coaching staff and players are making strides in the direction that we want to go, but it takes time. The growth from the start of last year to the end was incredible. If we make the same growth this year, there will be people suffering from foot-in-mouth for giving up this early. You can save this post and tell me I missed if my prediction does not come true but I will say (assuming we stay healthy...we aren't very deep) 1. We win 7-8 games this year, 2. We give Bama and Texas A&M a fight until the final series, 3. We go to a bowl game and win it, 4. We continue to attract a higher level of recruiting talent than we have in the past and develop that talent as we have been doing over the past decade.

This group of guys has played with tons of heart and there has been a noticeable improvement from the start of the season. Continue to support them and the coaching staff....they deserve that much from the fanbase.

And if you are wanting me to give you specifics on the games we will win--Kentucky, Vandy, Tennessee State and LSU I think are solid wins, we beat Ole Miss and Auburn quite probably and I think we have a legit chance against Arkansas....a win at Bama or A&M would be a surprise, but I won't be shocked if we can take A&M.

https://c.tenor.com/IErB4THwsBsAAAAM/good-one-jim-carrey.gif

It all makes sense....

https://c.tenor.com/SEYOhggP8W8AAAAC/trainspotting-heroin.gif

[redstickdawg]

I'll give you an honest answer. We are expecting an immediate success from a program that has had two years of recruiting for this style offense and defense, a year and a part of one of changing the attitude/culture of the team. Reality is that you don't go in and completely remake a program overnight. This team got the screws put to it Saturday by three ABYSMAL calls, but still fought until the final play. This coaching staff and players are making strides in the direction that we want to go, but it takes time. The growth from the start of last year to the end was incredible. If we make the same growth this year, there will be people suffering from foot-in-mouth for giving up this early. You can save this post and tell me I missed if my prediction does not come true but I will say (assuming we stay healthy...we aren't very deep) 1. We win 7-8 games this year, 2. We give Bama and Texas A&M a fight until the final series, 3. We go to a bowl game and win it, 4. We continue to attract a higher level of recruiting talent than we have in the past and develop that talent as we have been doing over the past decade.

This group of guys has played with tons of heart and there has been a noticeable improvement from the start of the season. Continue to support them and the coaching staff....they deserve that much from the fanbase.

And if you are wanting me to give you specifics on the games we will win--Kentucky, Vandy, Tennessee State and LSU I think are solid wins, we beat Ole Miss and Auburn quite probably and I think we have a legit chance against Arkansas....a win at Bama or A&M would be a surprise, but I won't be shocked if we can take A&M.

You're are either inside the program, coach?, or totally delusional. I see us possibly beating Vandy and Tenn State; competitive for a while against LSU and the rest are blow outs. I sincerely hope that I am wrong but I don't see any glimmer of hope with an offensive as offensive as ours.

[BayouDawg]

I want leach to succeed. Ive always been a fan. But I dont know if I am in the supporter camp now. I put Mississippi State before mike leach so if he cant get it done get someone who can. Hopefully mike leach can get it going but I aint holding my breath.

[Catfish]

What is he going to do different to make any of the remaining games any better?

I'd love to have some hope because I don't want this humiliation for MSU but based on decades of Leach history, he ain't changin.

Hope you who are ultimate optimist?

Seems to me like the purpose of this thread is to attack the Leach supporters. Shifty!

[R2Dawg]

Seems to me like the purpose of this thread is to attack the Leach supporters. Shifty!

Not at all. Hoping a Leach supporter will bring something new or hopeful about what Leach may do to fix it but nobody has got nothing. Same as after the spring game. Lot of BS after spring game. I told yall same song, different verse. I'm ready for Leach to sing a different note and get our program going the right direction.

I ain't anti Leach - I'm pro MSU.

Hoping someone will say I talked to a coach or player and they said Leach is going to change X or Y going forward. Anything, something to have some hope.

Some of the stuff some are hanging on to is blind faith because he won 20 years ago.

[Fader21]

I will tell you. We can't keep turning on coaches 2-3 years in a system. Especially when fans want totally different philosophical changes from the previous coach. This team does have fight in them that should be seen. I want to see the rest of the year less O-Line mistakes or a change needs to happen there and continue with increase in points per game. No blowouts be in the game till the last possession.

[Maverick91]

I still support him. Seeing that we have left at least 21-28 points a game on the field, from mistakes, misfires, etc.
By end of the year if it is still the same then it is time to reconsider.
His teams improve through the season, so I am curious to see if even half of those points start dropping in for us.

I want to buy into what you are drinking, but, my issues now are the fact that we are three games into this season and we CANNOT stop with pre-snap penalties. That is not something that well coached teams do. It has been three straight games of that mess. i want to believe that he can write the ship, but, he has a TON of proving to do. He can do that this weekend at home.

[thf24]

I wouldn't call myself a "supporter," but I'm still seeing enough not to write him off mid-season. I'd be lying though if I said I'm not starting to wish we could just wake up tomorrow and have a modern spread option offense again like the one that was so good for us for most of nine seasons.

[BuckyIsAB****]

We are still miles ahead of what Moorhead left. We had legit effort problems under Moorhead. Leach will have none of those

[vv83]

We are still miles ahead of what Moorhead left. We had legit effort problems under Moorhead. Leach will have none of those

Objectively, this is obviously a very good thing. For some reason I just can?t bring myself to care though, if the W/L column stays the same. I don?t know hopefully it pays off, but it feels like most coaches who are brought in the clean up a program are simultaneously horrible. See Croom

[Percho]

Not at all. Hoping a Leach supporter will bring something new or hopeful about what Leach may do to fix it but nobody has got nothing. Same as after the spring game. Lot of BS after spring game. I told yall same song, different verse. I'm ready for Leach to sing a different note and get our program going the right direction.

I ain't anti Leach - I'm pro MSU.

Hoping someone will say I talked to a coach or player and they said Leach is going to change X or Y going forward. Anything, something to have some hope.

Some of the stuff some are hanging on to is blind faith because he won 20 years ago.

The problem as I see it R2 is you want Leach to do something different, where as Leach wants to see the team do something different, that being, through practice, play with more precision and with the same concept we play with when we have been down to points. Make plays. I believe that is what Leach and the coaches are trying to teach and want our players to learn to do.

Many on here have said there are plays, there, to be made down field.

Is we can learn to do what the coaches are trying to teach, we will look like a totally different team on offense and will be blowing out teams like we have been playing including NC State,

[Percho]

I want to buy into what you are drinking, but, my issues now are the fact that we are three games into this season and we CANNOT stop with pre-snap penalties. That is not something that well coached teams do. It has been three straight games of that mess. i want to believe that he can write the ship, but, he has a TON of proving to do. He can do that this weekend at home.

I honestly believe those penalties are a result of how slow we get plays in motion. The longer it takes to put a play in motion the more anxious the OL gets. IMHO

[dawgman15]

What is he going to do different to make any of the remaining games any better?

I'd love to have some hope because I don't want this humiliation for MSU but based on decades of Leach history, he ain't changin.

Hope you who are ultimate optimist?

I am still in a wait and see. Looking at Leach's last two stops, Tech and WSU it took 3 years to see any kind of results. I know lots of fans are looking north at Ole Miss and how well their offense is moving in year 2 under kiffin but we are in way different situations. We have brought in a coach that is completely changing the scheme that MSU is known for in RTGDF to the Air raid. I think what is tearing people up inside is seeing how well the offense at Ole Miss is doing when his offense is similar to what these players have been running their whole college career and what they were recruited to come to campus to do. If we dont see any progress by year 3 then by all means fire the man. You can't fire him until we at least get to the point where he is known to make a difference

[Hot Rock]

I am a supporter.

That's the problem with this offense. When you do it badly, which is where we are now, it stops itself. You have tons of people that coached the game say it can't be done. Why? They know they could not coach it to work because it depends on such perfect execution that they do not believe that level of execution is possible. It is, Leach has proven it at the P5 level, certainly a higher level than Memphis. They call it a shit offense because it's dang hard run consistently and that's why we are struggling now. It's simple to understand but hard to execute consistently.

But when it works and I still say it can work, it's dang hard to stop no matter how good you are defensively. I still think Leach can take us to a place we have never been if he can get that offense working. I cannot say when I will give it up but it won't be today. Am I happy? Hell no, but there is this:

There is not a single coach worth his shit would come here if we fired our 2nd head coach in 4 years. Not one. You better hope he gets it together or we give him a legit shot to get this right or the next hire will be worse. Coaches get one shot at the big time, they won't waste it on a place that fires it's coach after not getting a legit shot to win.

[Catfish]

I am a supporter.

That's the problem with this offense. When you do it badly, which is where we are now, it stops itself. You have tons of people that coached the game say it can't be done. Why? They know they could not coach it to work because it depends on such perfect execution that they do not believe that level of execution is possible. It is, Leach has proven it at the P5 level, certainly a higher level than Memphis. They call it a shit offense because it's dang hard run consistently and that's why we are struggling now. It's simple to understand but hard to execute consistently.

But when it works and I still say it can work, it's dang hard to stop no matter how good you are defensively. I still think Leach can take us to a place we have never been if he can get that offense working. I cannot say when I will give it up but it won't be today. Am I happy? Hell no, but there is this:

There is not a single coach worth his shit would come here if we fired our 2nd head coach in 4 years. Not one. You better hope he gets it together or we give him a legit shot to get this right or the next hire will be worse. Coaches get one shot at the big time, they won't waste it on a place that fires it's coach after not getting a legit shot to win.

Good post!

[TrapGame]

I am still in a wait and see. Looking at Leach's last two stops, Tech and WSU it took 3 years to see any kind of results. I know lots of fans are looking north at Ole Miss and how well their offense is moving in year 2 under kiffin but we are in way different situations. We have brought in a coach that is completely changing the scheme that MSU is known for in RTGDF to the Air raid. I think what is tearing people up inside is seeing how well the offense at Ole Miss is doing when this offense is similar to what these players have been running their whole college career and what they were recruited to come to campus to do. If we dont see any progress by year 3 then by all means fire the man. You can't fire him until we at least get to the point where he is known to make a difference

LK is running an offense no different than what Freeze and Longo were doing. OM was ready made with those players. There was zero adjustment. And Matt Corral's like 27 years old with three kids, two divorces and a mortgage.**

But I'm with you. If the offense is just as bad next year it's time to push Leach to step down and retire to Key West. Year three should be golden in this offense.

[TrapGame]

I am a supporter.

That's the problem with this offense. When you do it badly, which is where we are now, it stops itself. You have tons of people that coached the game say it can't be done. Why? They know they could not coach it to work because it depends on such perfect execution that they do not believe that level of execution is possible. It is, Leach has proven it at the P5 level, certainly a higher level than Memphis. They call it a shit offense because it's dang hard run consistently and that's why we are struggling now. It's simple to understand but hard to execute consistently.

But when it works and I still say it can work, it's dang hard to stop no matter how good you are defensively. I still think Leach can take us to a place we have never been if he can get that offense working. I cannot say when I will give it up but it won't be today. Am I happy? Hell no, but there is this:

There is not a single coach worth his shit would come here if we fired our 2nd head coach in 4 years. Not one. You better hope he gets it together or we give him a legit shot to get this right or the next hire will be worse. Coaches get one shot at the big time, they won't waste it on a place that fires it's coach after not getting a legit shot to win.

We should all be hoping like Hell that Leach wins here. Having Leach a total failure here isn't going to improve how potential head coaches look at us. JoMo then Leach would give us a coaches' graveyard title. It would be tough to get some mediocre retread like Chizik at that point.

[dawgman15]

I had a typo in there TrapGame

[confucius say]

What is he going to do different to make any of the remaining games any better?

I'd love to have some hope because I don't want this humiliation for MSU but based on decades of Leach history, he ain't changin.

Hope you who are ultimate optimist?

You don't change anything. Keep plodding and trying to improve in the system. Cut down on all the dead ball penalties, take 3 points when given to you, and make your extra points. That would have given you 34 points at Memphis against a team that was geeked up to play you, which is where this offense is right now.

[TheLostDawg]

I am a supporter.

That's the problem with this offense. When you do it badly, which is where we are now, it stops itself. You have tons of people that coached the game say it can't be done. Why? They know they could not coach it to work because it depends on such perfect execution that they do not believe that level of execution is possible. It is, Leach has proven it at the P5 level, certainly a higher level than Memphis. They call it a shit offense because it's dang hard run consistently and that's why we are struggling now. It's simple to understand but hard to execute consistently.

But when it works and I still say it can work, it's dang hard to stop no matter how good you are defensively. I still think Leach can take us to a place we have never been if he can get that offense working. I cannot say when I will give it up but it won't be today. Am I happy? Hell no, but there is this:

There is not a single coach worth his shit would come here if we fired our 2nd head coach in 4 years. Not one. You better hope he gets it together or we give him a legit shot to get this right or the next hire will be worse. Coaches get one shot at the big time, they won't waste it on a place that fires it's coach after not getting a legit shot to win.

Yeah we have to give him three years and if it's still looking this bad and there isn't a good candidate available then get Spurrier to do what Matt Luke did and be interim coach for year along with increasing the pay to the other coaches to keep them on the staff(the ones we want to keep, let others go).

[preachermatt83]

I've basically idolized the man for 15+ years, so it's going to get really hard for me if this goes South. But we've got to reduce the 1-yard dumpoffs to the RBs and throw downfield more, even if we have a few INTs.

The screwjob from yesterday is such a season-killer, because instead of looking ahead to our matchup with LSU and our chance to get into the top 25, we're wondering whether we're going to make a bowl.

I agree completely. I wanted him hired when we hired croom

[Dawgtini]

I am a supporter.

That's the problem with this offense. When you do it badly, which is where we are now, it stops itself. You have tons of people that coached the game say it can't be done. Why? They know they could not coach it to work because it depends on such perfect execution that they do not believe that level of execution is possible. It is, Leach has proven it at the P5 level, certainly a higher level than Memphis. They call it a shit offense because it's dang hard run consistently and that's why we are struggling now. It's simple to understand but hard to execute consistently.

But when it works and I still say it can work, it's dang hard to stop no matter how good you are defensively. I still think Leach can take us to a place we have never been if he can get that offense working. I cannot say when I will give it up but it won't be today. Am I happy? Hell no, but there is this:

There is not a single coach worth his shit would come here if we fired our 2nd head coach in 4 years. Not one. You better hope he gets it together or we give him a legit shot to get this right or the next hire will be worse. Coaches get one shot at the big time, they won't waste it on a place that fires it's coach after not getting a legit shot to win.
Rep given! Well said.

[HancockCountyDog]

Objectively, this is obviously a very good thing. For some reason I just can?t bring myself to care though, if the W/L column stays the same. I don?t know hopefully it pays off, but it feels like most coaches who are brought in the clean up a program are simultaneously horrible. See Croom

Its also "objectively" impossible to quantify. Its like the old argument that the new strength and conditioning coach is way better than the previous one. I mean has anyone ever hired a strength and conditioning coach and reporters or insiders ever say "This guy is not as good as the last guy." That freaking never happens.

Its like when people said Kylin Hill was a cancer last year. He wasn't a cancer when he torching LSU in the first game of the season. Once he opted out or wasn't thrilled with the offense we were running, all of a sudden he was a problem.

You know how I quantify effort? W's and L's. So far under Leach we are 6-8.

When we can't convert 4th and 2 or 3rd and 1 I don't see a lack of effort when we are running one of about 3 short yardage plays we have. That is not effort, that is gameplanning and scheme.

For those of us that are concerned about Leach, the problem I have is that he refuses to incorporate a running element against the 3-8 defense. We have punted the ball 17 times in 3 games against Memphis, La Tech, and NC State. Those are not elite defenses. This doesn't count drives that have ended in turnovers. The bigger problem is that these are not unexpected issues. Go back and look at what was being said about Leach when we hired him. Those of us that had concerns, had exactly these concerns.

It would be as if your friends told you that marrying a stripper isn't the best idea and you go ahead and marry the stripper. I mean, the photos on Instagram are great and maybe for a while its kind of cool, but eventually - you are married to a stripper and every problem that your friends said would be a problem - are in fact, a problem.

[Johnson85]

OK, that is basically the dream formula for every team in America. Realistically, what will he do? What is Leach going to do to put players in position to make those 4-5 winning plays but suck the rest?

The reason teams make those 4-5 winning plays is because they have 40-50 possible winning plays a game. We don't. Completing 30 passes a game for 2 yards ain't winning plays.

What do you think he did the previous roughly 12 seasons where he had his teams ready to beat teams like Memphis (well really, even in some of those, he would have an inexplicable loss but make up for it with an upset)?

I don't know why this team can't seem to run his offense. I'm skeptical that we're ever going to beat elite defenses with it, but we sure as shit should be able to run it well enough to beat Memphis. I am still hopeful that we will be similar to Dan every year but 2014. A good enough offense that lets us when games with defense and be 6-6 to 8-4 most years.

[Dawgface]

We should all be hoping like Hell that Leach wins here. Having Leach a total failure here isn't going to improve how potential head coaches look at us. JoMo then Leach would give us a coaches' graveyard title. It would be tough to get some mediocre retread like Chizik at that point.

Yep. And if you could get a retread like Chizik how excited is that going to make you?

[TrapGame]

Yep. And if you could get a retread like Chizik how excited is that going to make you?

Zero excitement.

[R2Dawg]

The problem as I see it R2 is you want Leach to do something different, where as Leach wants to see the team do something different, that being, through practice, play with more precision and with the same concept we play with when we have been down to points. Make plays. I believe that is what Leach and the coaches are trying to teach and want our players to learn to do.

Many on here have said there are plays, there, to be made down field.

Is we can learn to do what the coaches are trying to teach, we will look like a totally different team on offense and will be blowing out teams like we have been playing including NC State,

Here is the problem with that philosophy. Every system will work if it is run perfectly. Reality check, no team will execute anything perfectly so you gotta run something that can absorb mistakes yet still be effective.

Humans make mistakes, that is who we are. I know that is foreign to some. Human performance management studies show on average a person makes 5 mistakes per hour. This will never work if practice and perfection is what it takes. I've heard that before from a ton a coaches.

There must be margin in life or you ain't gonna win.

[R2Dawg]

What do you think he did the previous roughly 12 seasons where he had his teams ready to beat teams like Memphis (well really, even in some of those, he would have an inexplicable loss but make up for it with an upset)?

I don't know why this team can't seem to run his offense. I'm skeptical that we're ever going to beat elite defenses with it, but we sure as shit should be able to run it well enough to beat Memphis. I am still hopeful that we will be similar to Dan every year but 2014. A good enough offense that lets us when games with defense and be 6-6 to 8-4 most years.

Agree with that, even with a flawed system or execution to a degree we should beat Memphis. One call and we win. One non-fumble and we win. Winning the game would still have left us with lots of issues but it would feel better than 2-1.

[Percho]

Here is the problem with that philosophy. Every system will work if it is run perfectly. Reality check, no team will execute anything perfectly so you gotta run something that can absorb mistakes yet still be effective.

Humans make mistakes, that is who we are. I know that is foreign to some. Human performance management studies show on average a person makes 5 mistakes per hour. This will never work if practice and perfection is what it takes. I've heard that before from a ton a coaches.

There must be margin in life or you ain't gonna win.

I wonder how much we practice against the defense we know we will see? If Will isn't practicing against drop 8 then it is going to take extra time to learn what to look for down field. Because that makes the games the practices.

[Catfish]

I wonder how much we practice against the defense we know we will see? If Will isn't practicing against drop 8 then it is going to take extra time to learn what to look for down field. Because that makes the games the practices.

I could be wrong but I think someone posted that we don't practice against it because our defense isn't a drop eight defense.

[R2Dawg]

I could be wrong but I think someone posted that we don't practice against it because our defense isn't a drop eight defense.

Just wow, what an admission to our preparation. But it's Will's fault. Will don't make the practice schedule.

[confucius say]

We practice against the drop 8 weekly.
Granted, it is a scout team defense. But still.

[Bdawg]

What is he going to do different to make any of the remaining games any better?

I'd love to have some hope because I don't want this humiliation for MSU but based on decades of Leach history, he ain't changin.

Hope you who are ultimate optimist?

What's he going to do? Push for more consistency(OL especially)and less mistakes and dumb penalties. Get Will to be more decisive, quicker, and look for deeper routes to stretch the defense(basically what he's already said)

What should he do? All the above plus be more creative in run game. Be more creative on the dump offs to our RBs beside just running to the sideline and standing out there waiting to get hit(give them a route to run).

[Bdawg]

We are still miles ahead of what Moorhead left. We had legit effort problems under Moorhead. Leach will have none of those

I thought #6 gave up on a pass Saturday on a skinny post that went by his shin as it hit the ground. I was pretty pissed he didn't try harder for that one after watching it about 6 times on replay. But not saying your post is wrong. Just one instance IMO.

[Percho]

I thought #6 gave up on a pass Saturday on a skinny post that went by his shin as it hit the ground. I was pretty pissed he didn't try harder for that one after watching it about 6 times on replay. But not saying your post is wrong. Just one instance IMO.

I thought the same thing when I saw it live. He had slowed down about 12 yards before the ball came down.

[Johnson85]

I could be wrong but I think someone posted that we don't practice against it because our defense isn't a drop eight defense.

I believe that was in reference to the spring/summer/fall workouts. Once the season starts, we scout what we expect to see in the game. I'm sure they worked on drop 8 in the off season too, I think just to the extent they are putting our offense against our defense, they are not sacrificing a lot of defensive prep time to have them play a drop 8.

[Bdawg]

I thought the same thing when I saw it live. He had slowed down about 12 yards before the ball came down.

There would be some after practice "conditioning" for him if I were coach after watching film.

[PMDawg]

I've basically idolized the man for 15+ years

This explains a lot.

You can explain away our loss to a vastly less talented team by calling it a "screw job by the refs", but we never should have been in that position anyway. We refused to put away a bad team, then we did stupid things that shifted momentum away from us and got their "crowd" back into it. The penalties, dumb coaching decisions, refusal to challenge even the most obvious incorrect calls, general laziness of the coaching staff, and other chronic negatives aren't going to just magically disappear. You'll be seeing the same things in late November as you saw Saturday.

[PMDawg]

I wouldn't call myself a "supporter," but I'm still seeing enough not to write him off mid-season. I'd be lying though if I said I'm not starting to wish we could just wake up tomorrow and have a modern spread option offense again like the one that was so good for us for most of nine seasons.

Yeah, I think Cohen had the right idea with the Moorhead hire, but he chose the wrong guy. The Moorhead offense was supposed to carry over a lot of what Mullen ran. Moorhead tried to tailor it to what Fitz could do, but it just wasn't working. Add in that he had no idea how to be a head coach at a major program and it just turned into a disaster. We needed someone who basically ran the Urban Meyer/Dan Mullen system.

In all honesty, Luke Fickell probably should have been our #1 target in 2017. I don't know if we could have pulled him, since he seems to be an Ohio guy, but we should have tried really hard.
Kyle Whitingham, #2. Again, a hard pull more than likely.
I don't know who all is out there that runs that offense, but I'm sure it's well known in coaching circles and by ADs. We had something that was working, and we've moved away from it twice in a row. It's not looking to turn out well.

And here's the last thing to consider. Let's say Leach gets it running perfectly, and we start winning 8 to 10 games a year. Well, he's retiring in the next 5 to 10 years, most likely closer to 5. Then what? No one runs this offense anymore. Regardless of whether this ends well or not, at some point we're going to be stuck with a major roster rehaul, and it's not going to be pretty. This is the main reason I never liked the hire to begin with.

[redstickdawg]

I believe that was in reference to the spring/summer/fall workouts. Once the season starts, we scout what we expect to see in the game. I'm sure they worked on drop 8 in the off season too, I think just to the extent they are putting our offense against our defense, they are not sacrificing a lot of defensive prep time to have them play a drop 8.

A bit of an enlightenment for me, if every team we play has to play one defense against us - we have major problem. Everyone plays the same simplistic defensive alignment as we don't offer any multidimensional threat (no run game) and they shut down the short passing game and we are toast. We must adjust or we are looking to be lucky to win 4 this year.

[R2Dawg]

What's he going to do? Push for more consistency(OL especially)and less mistakes and dumb penalties. Get Will to be more decisive, quicker, and look for deeper routes to stretch the defense(basically what he's already said)

What should he do? All the above plus be more creative in run game. Be more creative on the dump offs to our RBs beside just running to the sideline and standing out there waiting to get hit(give them a route to run).

Agree on some of what he should do. He will do some of what you say. Not sure he pushes Will too much on downfield throws. His philosophy is do what the D gives you which is short dump offs. You can draw up plays to send guys deep and target them but we don't do it. It would help but still gotta do the run game piece as well.

[Bdawg]

Agree on some of what he should do. He will do some of what you say. Not sure he pushes Will too much on downfield throws. His philosophy is do what the D gives you which is short dump offs. You can draw up plays to send guys deep and target them but we don't do it. It would help but still gotta do the run game piece as well.

Well he did say in the press conference Will is not taking advantage of some opportunities to throw downfield and relying on the dump off too much. Wish we could just pour some experience into Will but in reality we just have to hope it clicks really soon.

[R2Dawg]

Well he did say in the press conference Will is not taking advantage of some opportunities to throw downfield and relying on the dump off too much. Wish we could just pour some experience into Will but in reality we just have to hope it clicks really soon.

If he really believes that then two things.

What took him so long to see this?

Why don't he help Will to do that then? Call some specific plays to throw downfield. I've seen Leach not do anything to encourage Will to either throw downfield or run the ball when running is there. History shows that is against what Leach does.

Maybe he is having a crisis of belief right now - he needs to. His life work is not going to work like it used to; he better adapt or this will end badly for him.

[Bdawg]

If he really believes that then two things.

What took him so long to see this?

Why don't he help Will to do that then? Call some specific plays to throw downfield. I've seen Leach not do anything to encourage Will to either throw downfield or run the ball when running is there. History shows that is against what Leach does.

Maybe he is having a crisis of belief right now - he needs to. His life work is not going to work like it used to; he better adapt or this will end badly for him.

I think Leach has mentioned it beside yesterday about going downfield. He may telling him in practice too. Idk. I need a larger view of the field besides what the TV shows in order to see if Leach sends out receivers to all levels most every play. I would assume he does. Will has to adjust and find the open guy that everyone says seems to be there. As far as the running game, I'm pretty sure Leach leaves that to the QB. He calls pass plays and the QB must check. But I said earlier I want him to adapt the run game too. He can still have the QB check to it, but we must add some more plays and wrinkles in this department.

[preachermatt83]

Teams don't usually face "prevent-D's" an entire game, lol. There's are reasons those down-field routes have been open late in games when we were down big...

Buddy, I like ya and don?t mean this too awful but I really just don?t think you put much thought into this post. Prevents are designed to PREVENT down the field throws.