Sunday Morning QB- Mugged in Memphis Edition

[Coach34]

1. I love college football Saturday's. Football and food. Just a great day of relaxation and cheering for your team and the teams you bet on with some Tito's and a 20 ounce ribeye cooked to a perfect medium pink. And like my boy Jake Wimberly I also use ketchup.

2. Yes we got screwed on the punt return call. So what? There were 110 plats in the game. That 1 play didnt decide it. Why was the team that let Arkansas State score 50 on them that close to begin with?

3. Rogers set some State records yesterday. Most passing attempts. Most completions. Most dump downs to RB's in a game. Slowest run for an attempted 2 point conversion. I could complete 70% of the passes in this offense at age 50 let alone when I was 20

4. Anybody saying that this offensive scheme is not the problem is not a smart person. I'm going to avoid name-calling and not call these people dumbasses. I'm not going to call them football illiterate. I'm not even going to say "shut up stupid". But anybody that thinks an offensive scheme is effective when a defense lines up the same way and plays it the same way over and over and over and over again play after play without changing- is effective? Then those people likely need someone to use a spoon for them and to unbuckle their pants. When Rush 3 and Drop 8 play after mf'ing play is what you know is coming- and you still struggle to score then you aren't an effective playcaller in an effective offense. When a defense plays so vanilla against you play after play and you cant abuse them- then your offense sux.

5. I've seen people post "the offense wasn't the problem. We had 459 yards". First of all we ran 83 plays compared to our normal 65-67. That's like playing an extra quarter for us. So yeah- we had more yards. Secondly- Memphis was giving up an average of 490 yards per game. So the fact that we couldnt even meet their standard of shittiness magnifies the fact that our offense is not good.

6. I hate watching this Wishbone 2020 offense. Snap, drop back, dump down to the RB. Watch RB get blown the **** up by a LB closing downhill at a high rate of speed. Snap, drop back, rush 3 drop 8 yet aGAIN....look around for 5 seconds, hit Williams in the middle of the field for a 6 yard gain. Over and over and over and over. It's like watching a wing-T team almost. It's so painful to watch.

7. You know how to figure out a coach is just collecting a check? Watch his reaction to a blatant missed call by the refs. I went out on the field and picked up the ball before a team could run another play after an inadvertent whistle the refs were just going to try and pretend didnt happen during a game. The very least Leach could have done was raise a little hell and ask for a replay. He has coaches in the press box- shirley somebody saw the ref going to mark the ball and moving his hands over his head. Shirley a player told him they heard a whistle even if he didnt. Wtf? Dont just stand there.

8. The OL is not the problem. When you throw the ball 60 times you are going to have a couple of holding penalties. When you throw the ball 60 times- there is going to be a couple of sacks. Defensive lines in the South just have too many athletes.

9. Defense did their job. Gave up 17 points to a pretty good offense.

10. Not kicking the FG to start the 3rd Q bit us in the ass. Not having a decent 2 point play bit us in the ass. Being soft as an offense bit us in the ass in the red zone. Onside kicking a 2nd time in a row instead of kicking it deep bit us in the ass. Not changing your offense for 25 years bit us in the ass. We scored 29 points on a team that gave up 50 to Arkansas State. Ark State scored 3 points on Washington last night. We scored 34 points on La Tech- since then La Tech has given up 42 points to SE Louisiana and 39 to SMU. We are the worst offense La Tech has faced this year. Scheme isnt the problem tho is it?

This team isnt going bowling in 2021 unless our GPA gets us in again with 5 wins. Provided we somehow get a 5th

[Quaoarsking]

2-1*

[KOdawg1]

Spot on. The people pointing to the stats are clueless.

[basedog]

Pirate is Emory II, past his time and hard headed. That second half of sorry ass football was bad. Yes to what you say about punt return, shouldn't have come down to that. What a dumb move not taking points after interception up by 10 with mo on our side. After that it was all down hill!

Btw 34, The Pirate loved the Corner Bar in Natchez. I guess it reminded him of Key West.

[Fader21]

You lose credibility with your first take. Ketchup on steak means you don't know what your doing on a grill.

Second the reason this system isn't working is because we still don't have the players to run it effectively. Y'all act like we have the best receivers in the world. Most of our receivers are still young. Our Qb is still young. ( even though I don't trust him )

Third, the rush 3 drop 8 take is a little misleading. Memphis rushed four more in the second half which caused us to change what we were doing. Also Memphis played Cover 2 which they were trying to take away the flats more so than others playing Cover 3 and Cover 4.

Lastly the fact we lost our best RB hurt us too.We were rolling in the first half with Marks in the game and it showed it changed when he left.

[Jacknut]

Agree with the field goal and second onside kick. On the road after a turnover take the three! The second onside gave them 3 points (although it was a great FG by their kicker) that's a 6 point swing and the ballgame right there.

[msstate7]

You lose credibility with your first take. Ketchup on steak means you don't know what your doing on a grill.

Second the reason this system isn't working is because we still don't have the players to run it effectively. Y'all act like we have the best receivers in the world. Most of our receivers are still young. Our Qb is still young. ( even though I don't trust him )

Third, the rush 3 drop 8 take is a little misleading. Memphis rushed four more in the second half which caused us to change what we were doing. Also Memphis played Cover 2 which they were trying to take away the flats more so than others playing Cover 3 and Cover 4.

Lastly the fact we lost our best RB hurt us too.We were rolling in the first half with Marks in the game and it showed it changed when he left.

Marks had 4 carries for 1 yard
6 catches for 39 yds

[AROB44]

Much as I hate to...... I agree with everything you said 34. I wasn't in favor of the hire to begin with.

[Jacknut]

Lastly the fact we lost our best RB hurt us too.We were rolling in the first half with Marks in the game and it showed it changed when he left.

Yes! And then Johnson got banged up as well.

[Fader21]

Marks had 4 carries for 1 yard
6 catches for 39 yds

Was the offense working with him in the game? Take away the bad hand off we were marching down the field every drive with him in the game except one 3 and out.

[KOdawg1]

You lose credibility with your first take. Ketchup on steak means you don't know what your doing on a grill.

Second the reason this system isn't working is because we still don't have the players to run it effectively. Y'all act like we have the best receivers in the world. Most of our receivers are still young. Our Qb is still young. ( even though I don't trust him )

Third, the rush 3 drop 8 take is a little misleading. Memphis rushed four more in the second half which caused us to change what we were doing. Also Memphis played Cover 2 which they were trying to take away the flats more so than others playing Cover 3 and Cover 4.

Lastly the fact we lost our best RB hurt us too.We were rolling in the first half with Marks in the game and it showed it changed when he left.

Whew. This is some Bucky level spin.

Our receivers are fine. Polk is the best outside WR we've had in a long time. You've got Walley and Calvin (who isn't young) in the slot. Malik Heath is a very solid option. Austin Williams is reliable. Tulu is our best playmaker but we don't get him the ball for some reason.

We have the players to run this system besides at QB. And even if we get one at QB, this offense will never work in the SEC.

[BeardoMSU]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09uqgELv54o&ab_channel=bezarker68

Lol, yeah.....but agree with just about everything else.

[coachnorm]

Have to agree with Coach34 in many regards. Coach34 brought to light the WingT offense which is relatable because scheme orientated coaches be it Air Raid or WingT have a similar psychology in their minds. Those scheme disciples never take responsibility because the SCHEME is infallible in their minds. The players failure to execute the SCHEME as codified in the coaches mind is the problem and not the coaches shortcomings. These type of coaches are condescending to the football think tank because everyone else lacks the coaches knowledge? Over the years I have watched coach ideologues weed themselves out of the profession?

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

I agree with Coach 34. When a team can run the same defense all game because they know you aren?t going to do anything different, you have problems.

[msstate7]

Was the offense working with him in the game? Take away the bad hand off we were marching down the field every drive with him in the game except one 3 and out.

Correlation does not equal causation

[Jacknut]

Marks had 4 carries for 1 yard
6 catches for 39 yds

He played a quarter and a half! Bad take. Teams have to respect him when he's out there.

[Fader21]

Marks had 4 carries for 1 yard
6 catches for 39 yds


Whew. This is some Bucky level spin.

Our receivers are fine. Polk is the best outside WR we've had in a long time. You've got Walley and Calvin (who isn't young) in the slot. Malik Heath is a very solid option. Austin Williams is reliable. Tulu is our best playmaker but we don't get him the ball for some reason.

We have the players to run this system besides at QB. And even if we get one at QB, this offense will never work in the SEC.

Our receivers are fine for a Mullen offense, not a pass first offense. Tulu can't catch or find open grass in zones that's why he isn't getting the ball. We don't have the players to run the offense yet. 1 1/2 years of recruiting the system isn't enough to get the right players in.

I swear this fan base has got the idea that changing a offensively philosophy can be done very quickly when our recruiting suffered under Mullen. Moorhead was doing a great job but his system is night and day different than Leach's.

[maroonmania]

On #4 using what is SUPPOSED to be the same offensive scheme, the 2019 Washington State team (Leach's last in Pullman) was 7th in total offense in the country and 11th in scoring without any real all-stars. So sounds like a personnel issue to me way more than scheme. We have a serviceable QB at best and a poor OL. Also, at least yesterday, we were playing walkon RBs because of injuries. The only thing we have half way adequate on offense in this scheme currently might be WRs. And before anyone says 'well that WSU offense was having success against PAC-12 defenses' I will remind you that so far we have played a mid-level CUSA defense, a decent ACC defense and a poor AAC defense. Our offensive issues have much more to do with us than it does with anything opposing defenses are doing. Honestly, I thought Rogers' accuracy yesterday was the poorest I've seen him. And he wasn't very accurate last week either. Overall I don't think Will has been as effective this year as he was during the last half of last season which is puzzling. Also he seems to be much more indecisive about where to go with the ball than last year. Disappointing that he hasn't progressed more given he now has a Spring session under his belt. Heck, if we had OM's QB and OM's OL in this same scheme we would be hell on wheels just like they are in their scheme especially if we ran it with some pace like they do instead of being SO slow going from one play to the next.

On #7 Leach has had the same stupid blank look on his face on the sidelines during games for his whole coaching career. That's just who he is.

[parabrave]

Correctamundo. And don't call me shirley. Throwing the ball 64 times will not win many games.

[msstate7]

He played a quarter and a half! Bad take. Teams have to respect him when he's out there.

On the season,
Marks: 3.77 per rush, 4.27 per catch

He's the difference between winning and losing to MEMPHiS!

[KOdawg1]

Moorhead was doing a great job

Yeah you lost me right here. You don't know what you're talking about.

[Fader21]

Yeah you lost me right here. You don't know what you're talking about.
On the road, meaning recruiting.

[Dawgface]

Someone posted this on Facebook. Coach has made it to the big time! Ha. All his points are true.

[maroonmania]

On the road, meaning recruiting.

Yea, Moorhead is the only HC we've had recently that actually liked recruiting and put a lot of effort into it. Mullen and Leach both despise recruiting. I will give Mullen credit though in identifying a lot of guys that could be good SEC players that he didn't have to put much effort into signing.

[KOdawg1]

On the road, meaning recruiting.
He may have tried harder but the results were about the same

[Cowbell]

Yes! And then Johnson got banged up as well.

You guys realize why they are getting hurt right ?! 34 covered - heck I started a thread about it last season

[BuckyIsAB****]

Whew. This is some Bucky level spin.

Our receivers are fine. Polk is the best outside WR we've had in a long time. You've got Walley and Calvin (who isn't young) in the slot. Malik Heath is a very solid option. Austin Williams is reliable. Tulu is our best playmaker but we don't get him the ball for some reason.

We have the players to run this system besides at QB. And even if we get one at QB, this offense will never work in the SEC.

Whew imagine being so staunch and hard headed (like yall are on Leach about, deservedly so) that you just wont admit you were possibly wrong about a kid, then said kid proves you wrong over and over. Must be a tough message board life

[msstate7]

Whew imagine being so staunch and hard headed (like yall are on Leach about, deservedly so) that you just wont admit you were possibly wrong about a kid, then said kid proves you wrong over and over. Must be a tough message board life
Will's ranking in conf...
Passer rating - 10 of 13
QBR - 12 of 15

[Cowbell]

Someone posted this on Facebook. Coach has made it to the big time! Ha. All his points are true.

Coach has been famous on social media for some time lol just do some research

[BuckyIsAB****]

Throwing the ball 65 times in a game is ridiculous idc what you are running. Our 2 pt play was the same thing we have ran 100 times an air raid staple play.

The most egregious part for me so far with Leach is 3rd/4th and short and goal to go situations. He has got to adapt. He has done it before idk why he is refusing to do it here. We are the easiest team in America to stop on 3rd and 1-3 yards. I am going to bring pressure and pinch my ends to take away inside zone and make you throw it 5-10 yards or hit a screen to simply get 1 yard. It makes no sense.

Idk why all of a sudden we can hit wide open guys consistently in the 4th quarter but chose to force ourselves to make 20 play drives all game. I am all for taking what they give you and Will does an excellent job of that. But Leach has to turn him loose more. We are making our lives so much harder.

Arnett had one or two times yesterday he was trying to do to much against tempo and our motion adjustments got us beat on one 4th and long. We were better than them dont get too cute just go hunt. Lots of times we werent lined up and it hurt us

[BuckyIsAB****]

Will's ranking in conf...
Passer rating - 10 of 13
QBR - 12 of 15

I dont give a rats ass about either of those. Find another stat

[KOdawg1]

Whew imagine being so staunch and hard headed (like yall are on Leach about, deservedly so) that you just wont admit you were possibly wrong about a kid, then said kid proves you wrong over and over. Must be a tough message board life

Will actually proves me right every week. He's got a 1 pt win over a CUSA team, 17 pts vs NC State, and a loss to Memphis. Is that really proving me wrong?

The stats are irrelevant. Every QB puts up numbers in the air raid. But the kid can't push the ball down the field. He has no mobility. He has bad pocket presence. He takes 12 seconds to make decisions.

He's the best we've got right now. I get that. But there's a reason his best offers besides us we're Wazzu, Tulane, and Troy. He's a borderline G5 QB that doesn't move the needle. I'm sorry, but it's true, and your constant excuses don't change that. Spin away Mr. Washing Machine

[Cowbell]

Will ain't the problem - he is set up to fail just like our RBs

[Jacknut]

On the season,
Marks: 3.77 per rush, 4.27 per catch

He's the difference between winning and losing to MEMPHiS!

We're talking about the Memphis game. Don't move the goalpost and try to keep up!

[msstate7]

I dont give a rats ass about either of those. Find another stat

Of course you don't. To be fair, if I were trying to justify bad qb play, I would avoid those 2 also.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Will actually proves me right every week. He's got a 1 pt win over a CUSA team, 17 pts vs NC State, and a loss to Memphis. Is that really proving me wrong?

The stats are irrelevant. Every QB puts up numbers in the air raid. But the kid can't push the ball down the field. He has no mobility. He has bad pocket presence. He takes 12 seconds to make decisions.

He's the best we've got right now. I get that. But there's a reason his best offers besides us we're Wazzu, Tulane, and Troy. He's a borderline G5 QB that doesn't move the needle. I'm sorry, but it's true, and your constant excuses don't change that. Spin away Mr. Washing Machine

Yeah hes terrible. Just wins. What is this his 2nd loss as a starter in this horrendous awful offense? Piss off dude. He is a starting SEC QB who is the unquestioned leader of the team and has shown he can sling it multiple times in every game. That is the stupidest and most brain dead argument you can make. Bad decision makers turn the ball over. Will does not.

He got stopped on the 1 yard line with 2 guys just waiting on him to pull it down like it has been all year. When he throws for 400 more and a few scores against LSU you will be here eating shit like you do every time he starts. Im done with this.

[msstate7]

We're talking about the Memphis game. Don't move the goalpost and try to keep up!

Ok, he was killing it.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Of course you don't. To be fair, if I were trying to justify bad qb play, I would avoid those 2 also.

Nah. I dont think Leach or anyone else gives a shit about it either.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I love all the QB play experts that just say Buh buh but Corral but but but ole miss. Just bc you listen to Bo Bounds talk about QB play doesnt mean you can evaluate it.

How anyone with a functioning brain that claims they are football knowledgeable can watch our games, and look at the stats like 7 likes to do and think its the QBs fault legitimately has a logic problem

[KOdawg1]

Yeah hes terrible. Just wins. What is this his 2nd loss as a starter in this horrendous awful offense? Piss off dude. He is a starting SEC QB who is the unquestioned leader of the team and has shown he can sling it multiple times in every game. That is the stupidest and most brain dead argument you can make. Bad decision makers turn the ball over. Will does not.

He got stopped on the 1 yard line with 2 guys just waiting on him to pull it down like it has been all year. When he throws for 400 more and a few scores against LSU you will be here eating shit like you do every time he starts. Im done with this.

I'm sorry I made you mad Mr. Rogers.

He probably will put up 400 on LSU. Again, the stats are irrelevant. We'll pass it 65 times. He'll check it down to the RB 18 times. He'll hit Austin on a 4 yard slant. His completion % will look really good. But he'll completely not see our receivers wide open down the field. He won't make a throw past 20 yards down the field except maybe a time or two. He'll stand in the pocket too long and take unnecessary sacks.

I know I've bested you in an argument when you resort to "piss off" and "eat shit." You probably should be done with this if you can't handle it. No need in getting worked up this much Mr. Rogers.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I'm sorry I made you mad Mr. Rogers.

He probably will put up 400 on LSU. Again, the stats are irrelevant. We'll pass it 65 times. He'll check it down to the RB 18 times. He'll hit Austin on a 4 yard slant. His completion % will look really good. But he'll completely not see our receivers wide open down the field. He won't make a throw past 20 yards down the field except maybe a time or two. He'll stand in the pocket too long and take unnecessary sacks.

I know I've bested you in an argument when you resort to "piss off" and "eat shit." You probably should be done with this if you can't handle it. No need in getting worked up this much Mr. Rogers.

No. You havent bested anyone. You say the same thing every time and Will does the same thing every time. Lead the team and for the most part, win. Im done. Again eat shit and piss off.

[KOdawg1]

No. You havent bested anyone. You say the same thing every time and Will does the same thing every time. Lead the team and for the most part, win. Im done. Again eat shit and piss off.

You're right. He does the same thing every time. He's done nothing to prove me wrong.

But you're right, he's a winner. We're headed towards 9 wins. No worries.

Bested.

[BuckyIsAB****]

You're right. He does the same thing every time. He's done nothing to prove me wrong.

But you're right, he's a winner. We're headed towards 9 wins. No worries.

Bested.

Congratulations

[msstate7]

I love all the QB play experts that just say Buh buh but Corral but but but ole miss. Just bc you listen to Bo Bounds talk about QB play doesnt mean you can evaluate it.

How anyone with a functioning brain that claims they are football knowledgeable can watch our games, and look at the stats like 7 likes to do and think its the QBs fault legitimately has a logic problem

If you throw our lower division teams, we have only outperformed 1 team in total offense vs our opponents' common opponents. It was usf vs nc st... we got 45 more yards than USF. Ark st got 212 more than us vs memphis. Vs la tech, we got 435, which is 174 less than SELa and 143 less than smu.

[BuckyIsAB****]

If you throw our lower division teams, we have only outperformed 1 team in total offense vs our opponents' common opponents. It was usf vs nc st... we got 45 more yards than USF. Ark st got 212 more than us vs memphis. Vs la tech, we got 435, which is 174 less than SELa and 143 less than smu.

So you can run all those stats and somehow come to the conclusion that our QB sucks and if we had our lord and savior Matt corral we would be scoring 85 points a game and never punt

[msstate7]

So you can run all those stats and somehow come to the conclusion that our QB sucks and if we had our lord and savior Matt corral we would be scoring 85 points a game and never punt

Sorry you can't see corral is much better than will.

[Fader21]

The most egregious part for me so far with Leach is 3rd/4th and short and goal to go situations. He has got to adapt. He has done it before idk why he is refusing to do it here. We are the easiest team in America to stop on 3rd and 1-3 yards. I am going to bring pressure and pinch my ends to take away inside zone and make you throw it 5-10 yards or hit a screen to simply get 1 yard. It makes no sense.

Idk why all of a sudden we can hit wide open guys consistently in the 4th quarter but chose to force ourselves to make 20 play drives all game. I am all for taking what they give you and Will does an excellent job of that. But Leach has to turn him loose more. We are making our lives so much harder.



The reason he isnt adapting is because we don't have the players to run the air raid in its totality.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Sorry you can't see corral is much better than will.

See this just proves me right even more. When have I said that he is better that Corral? Obviously he is not the athlete Corral is. But if you put Corral here and made him throw it 65 times a game behind an OL that only has 2 or 3 guys with any considerable reps in the system, then add in the drops we have what would be the result? Will is doing all he can do. He is not perfect but I can promise you if Corral is in this offense we would turn it over at a way higher rate.

Leach has to adapt. He has to add to what he is running and there is plenty there to take advantage of.

[parabrave]

See this just proves me right even more. When have I said that he is better that Corral? Obviously he is not the athlete Corral is. But if you put Corral here and made him throw it 65 times a game behind an OL that only has 2 or 3 guys with any considerable reps in the system, then add in the drops we have what would be the result? Will is doing all he can do. He is not perfect but I can promise you if Corral is in this offense we would turn it over at a way higher rate.

Leach has to adapt. He has to add to what he is running and there is plenty there to take advantage of.

Well Corral would do one thing. He would take off and get the 1st down or score.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Well Corral would do one thing. He would take off and get the 1st down or score.

He would have to beat some LBs sitting with their eyes on him to do it

[BuckyIsAB****]

Ive never seen State fans worship OM like ive seen here lately. They beat us on a fumble at the foot line while we had 43 kids on the sideline. But yall think they are going to beat the Chiefs

[dawgday166]

Will actually proves me right every week. He's got a 1 pt win over a CUSA team, 17 pts vs NC State, and a loss to Memphis. Is that really proving me wrong?

The stats are irrelevant. Every QB puts up numbers in the air raid. But the kid can't push the ball down the field. He has no mobility. He has bad pocket presence. He takes 12 seconds to make decisions.

He's the best we've got right now. I get that. But there's a reason his best offers besides us we're Wazzu, Tulane, and Troy. He's a borderline G5 QB that doesn't move the needle. I'm sorry, but it's true, and your constant excuses don't change that. Spin away Mr. Washing Machine

This is a pretty accurate take IMO. Will is very hesitant, he doesn't come off of his presnap reads and find 2nd and 3rd receivers well, and he cannot throw accurately while on the move hardly at all. Arm strength does seem to be lacking some too. Can Will improve on all those ... I believe he can but he has a pretty good ways to go yet. Just compare Will to Gardner Minshew. It's night and day.

C34 can pound on the "system" all he wants but at the very least it should work against teams like Memphis and the lower to mid-tier SEC teams. Will it work against the Bamas, FLs, GAs of the world? Maybe not. But Memphis has a bad D and it should work against them regardless. It has historically worked against teams at that level or even above over many years.

Our talent level isn't very high plus the offense is really in Will's hands at the LOS. Blame Leach all you want but in his system Will can check off to anything he wants to at the LOS. And the OL and skill players all have to be on the same page. They're all still young and haven't grasped that yet near as I can tell. Also, our RBs may be somewhat tough with some power but they are not very elusive at all. I don't think they have developed great vision either yet. So IMO execution right now is the bigger problem.

I will add that Leach letting the punt return go by without a review was pathetic and pissed me off too. Sometimes I do wonder myself if he's semi-retired. While I haven't been keeping up with recruiting like I normally do, he seems to be letting some of our top DL in the State get away from us ... and that is our bread and butter and MS produces as many or more top DL as any state in the country. We gotta get those guys.

So IMO it's a combination of all and I personally always believe most any coach needs at least 3 and really 4 years to get a program turned around when it was bad coming in. There will be somewhat significant ups/downs along the way. And ours was bad after Moorhead screwed it up. This team does remind me somewhat of Mullen's 2016 team. Not sure there is as much talent on it tho.

[shoeless joe]

The most disappointing thing about Leach is the sloppiness and a lack of attention to detail. Everything else is what we thought it was.

I hope the kinks get worked out. I hope Rogers figured out how to read the whole field and find the wide ass open receivers. But I’m not a fan of this style of offense…and wasn’t when we hired the man. Nothing has changed my mind.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Lets compare Minshew to Will. Minshew didnt get a D1 offer. There goes the Will has no talent theory. Minshew started in JUCO then transferred from 2 different schools before he was a 6th year senior at WSU. Will is a Soph. That is not a fair comparison. I know both of them very well and I can tell you they were both a lot a like. I couldnt care less if anyone believes me or not.

[dawgday166]

Lets compare Minshew to Will. Minshew didnt get a D1 offer. There goes the Will has no talent theory. Minshew started in JUCO then transferred from 2 different schools before he was a 6th year senior at WSU. Will is a Soph. That is not a fair comparison. I know both of them very well and I can tell you they were both a lot a like. I couldnt care less if anyone believes me or not.

Not arguing those points. Not here to bash Will either. I said Will needs to improve a lot of things. Also pointed out he's still young and he is a true soph. One of his main problems right now may be confidence in his decisions which may be why he's hesitant.

Some people on here bashed our historic best players ever and ready to sit them if they make one mistake. That's just what they do especially in game threads. Try not to overreact to strenuously when they do that cause no matter what ... they will do that.

Just like now ... I said he has a lot of improvement to make and you jumping up to vehemently defend him. What's kinda unrealistic some is how you're automatically projecting him to be as good as our best ever sometimes ... or at least it's coming across that way. He ain't there yet by a long stretch. He's gonna get criticized dude no matter how good he becomes. Better kinda get used to it.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Oh believe me I am fine with criticism. He is not perfect but the hate on him here is over the top. He knows he missed a TD to Polk on the first post route. Nobody is harder on Will than Will is.

[dawgday166]

Some folks almost always think there's a backup that's better. In our history Dak may have been the only exception to that.

[KOdawg1]

Some folks almost always think there's a backup that's better. In our history Dak may have been the only exception to that.

Nope. We don't have a backup that's better than Will. At least not right now.

[dawgday166]

The most disappointing thing about Leach is the sloppiness and a lack of attention to detail. Everything else is what we thought it was.

I hope the kinks get worked out. I hope Rogers figured out how to read the whole field and find the wide ass open receivers. But I’m not a fan of this style of offense…and wasn’t when we hired the man. Nothing has changed my mind.

Mullen's 2016 team was like that too. Frustrating as hell to watch. Then they turned into the 2017 team and would've really given Bama a run in 2018 IMO if Mullen stays.

ETA: My main point is that a lot of that can be attributed to youth. And this is still a very young team.

[Todd4State]

Oh believe me I am fine with criticism. He is not perfect but the hate on him here is over the top. He knows he missed a TD to Polk on the first post route. Nobody is harder on Will than Will is.

I just want Will to push it down the field more and scramble a little more when warranted. That's it. And I think doing that would solve most of our offensive issues.

[defiantdog]

I just want Will to push it down the field more and scramble a little more when warranted. That's it. And I think doing that would solve most of our offensive issues.
Or just get rid of the ball faster and not take the entire play clock every play.

[HancockCountyDog]

I just want Will to push it down the field more and scramble a little more when warranted. That's it. And I think doing that would solve most of our offensive issues.

The reason we are struggling is not Will?s fault.

He is doing what he can based on the offense he is being asked to run.

The fact that we are being outschemed every week by CUSA defensive coordinators is not Will?s fault.

Washington showed everyone the blueprint yo beat this offense. Leach refuses to adjust. Blaming Will is lazy.

[Maroonthirteen]

Y'all are so full of it. Y'all aren't seeing receivers down field open.

The check downs are because that is all that is open vs a drop 8. Anytime he does throw more than a 5 yard pass, the wr is clobbered immediately because those DBs are top of the wr.

Anyways, doesn't matter, people see they want.

[KOdawg1]

Y'all aren't seeing receivers down field open.


False.

[dawgday166]

Y'all are so full of it. Y'all aren't seeing receivers down field open.

The check downs are because that is all that is open vs a drop 8. Anytime he does throw more than a 5 yard pass, the wr is clobbered immediately because those DBs are top of the wr.

Anyways, doesn't matter, people see they want.

I didn't record it but my recollection is we moved the ball somewhat well against drop 8 (rushing 3) in 1st half, with throws downfield a ways (10 maybe 15 yarders). It was when they rushed 4 (and dropped 7) in 2nd half when we looked like crap struggled more to move or sustain drives.

[TrapGame]

Leach's downfall will be not changing his offensive philosophy to evolve a running game to compliment his air raid passing style. I think he needs a good dual threat QB w/ a couple of big, bruising backs.

[Activated Alpha]

When he throws for 400 more and a few scores against LSU you will be here eating shit like you do every time he starts. Im done with this.

I bet he won't score more than 14 on LSU

[dawgday166]

Leach's downfall will be not changing his offensive philosophy to evolve a running game to compliment his air raid passing style. I think he needs a good dual threat QB w/ a couple of big, bruising backs.

Maybe so but he also needs the personnel to do that. Right now he doesn't have that and maybe he isn't recruiting it either. I'm not keeping up with recruiting enough to know for sure right now. Historically speaking tho his QBs don't run and I do think that would help if we had a QB that could make teams pay more when 8 are dropped. So you may have a valid point if he doesn't adapt some.

[HoopsDawg]

. Moorhead was doing a great job .

haha, thanks buddy. I needed a good laugh today.

[HoopsDawg]

Maybe so but he also needs the personnel to do that. Right now he doesn't have that and maybe he isn't recruiting it either. I'm not keeping up with recruiting enough to know for sure right now. Historically speaking tho his QBs don't run and I do think that would help if we had a QB that could make teams pay more when 8 are dropped. So you may have a valid point if he doesn't adapt some.

I guess any system will work if you have superior players. I suggest a lot of you re-read Coach34's post and let it sink in.

[TrapGame]

Maybe so but he also needs the personnel to do that. Right now he doesn't have that and maybe he isn't recruiting it either. I'm not keeping up with recruiting enough to know for sure right now. Historically speaking tho his QBs don't run and I do think that would help if we had a QB that could make teams pay more when 8 are dropped. So you may have a valid point if he doesn't adapt some.

Just having an athletic dual threat QB on the goal line plays would totally change things. Another wrinkle a defense has to think about. A 6'3" 235 QB who can throw it but can also bowl over a LB for a chunk of real estate four or five times a game would do wonders for this offense.

[Coach34]

They played a 3 man front probably 65-68 of the 83 plays we ran. They didn’t do any big changing in the 2nd half

[dawgday166]

I guess any system will work if you have superior players. I suggest a lot of you re-read Coach34's post and let it sink in.

You mean like our 2014 or 17 teams that were pretty good. Mature and experienced. Players maybe similar to what Leach has that were developed over time. Were those OLinemen on either team 4* players at all (1 on 2016 was). One walk-on Olineman on 2014 team. 2013 up/down year. 2016 up/down year. I suggest you develop a better memory of past regimes. Or maybe stick to Hoops.

[KOdawg1]

You mean like our 2014 or 17 teams that were pretty good. Mature and experienced. Players maybe similar to what Leach has that were developed over time. Were those OLinemen on either team 4* players at all (1 on 2016 was). One walk-on Olineman on 2014 team. 2013 up/down year. 2016 up/down year. I suggest you develop a better memory of past regimes. Or maybe stick to Hoops.

I suggest you listen to Hoops. He knows more than you.

[DownwardDawg]

Unfortunately, we're just riding it out again. Waiting on our next coach and praying someone makes the right decision.

[Coach34]

8 of our 11 offensive starters are JR’s or Sr’s. Just how old do we have to be?

[HancockCountyDog]

You mean like our 2014 or 17 teams that were pretty good. Mature and experienced. Players maybe similar to what Leach has that were developed over time. Were those OLinemen on either team 4* players at all (1 on 2016 was). One walk-on Olineman on 2014 team. 2013 up/down year. 2016 up/down year. I suggest you develop a better memory of past regimes. Or maybe stick to Hoops.

Our team under Mullen immediately became better running the ball. The reason? Better scheme.

We went from embarrassment to really good in the span of one year, from 2008 to 2009.

If you think I?m wrong, go back and watch the 2008 egg bowl and then watch the 2009 egg bowl. Mullen installed a competent offense and took advantage of what we had, he didn?t wait 3-4 years to bring his guys in.

Leach is getting paid to win games now, not run a scheme we aren?t equipped to run.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

I was under the impression that Leach didn?t need big time QBs. So I don?t blame Will. It?s the offense.

[KOdawg1]

8 of our 11 offensive starters are JR’s or Sr’s. Just how old do we have to be?

"We're young" is the go-to excuse. You don't even have to research it.

[R2Dawg]

1. I love college football Saturday's. Football and food. Just a great day of relaxation and cheering for your team and the teams you bet on with some Tito's and a 20 ounce ribeye cooked to a perfect medium pink. And like my boy Jake Wimberly I also use ketchup.

2. Yes we got screwed on the punt return call. So what? There were 110 plats in the game. That 1 play didnt decide it. Why was the team that let Arkansas State score 50 on them that close to begin with?

3. Rogers set some State records yesterday. Most passing attempts. Most completions. Most dump downs to RB's in a game. Slowest run for an attempted 2 point conversion. I could complete 70% of the passes in this offense at age 50 let alone when I was 20

4. Anybody saying that this offensive scheme is not the problem is not a smart person. I'm going to avoid name-calling and not call these people dumbasses. I'm not going to call them football illiterate. I'm not even going to say "shut up stupid". But anybody that thinks an offensive scheme is effective when a defense lines up the same way and plays it the same way over and over and over and over again play after play without changing- is effective? Then those people likely need someone to use a spoon for them and to unbuckle their pants. When Rush 3 and Drop 8 play after mf'ing play is what you know is coming- and you still struggle to score then you aren't an effective playcaller in an effective offense. When a defense plays so vanilla against you play after play and you cant abuse them- then your offense sux.

5. I've seen people post "the offense wasn't the problem. We had 459 yards". First of all we ran 83 plays compared to our normal 65-67. That's like playing an extra quarter for us. So yeah- we had more yards. Secondly- Memphis was giving up an average of 490 yards per game. So the fact that we couldnt even meet their standard of shittiness magnifies the fact that our offense is not good.

6. I hate watching this Wishbone 2020 offense. Snap, drop back, dump down to the RB. Watch RB get blown the **** up by a LB closing downhill at a high rate of speed. Snap, drop back, rush 3 drop 8 yet aGAIN....look around for 5 seconds, hit Williams in the middle of the field for a 6 yard gain. Over and over and over and over. It's like watching a wing-T team almost. It's so painful to watch.

7. You know how to figure out a coach is just collecting a check? Watch his reaction to a blatant missed call by the refs. I went out on the field and picked up the ball before a team could run another play after an inadvertent whistle the refs were just going to try and pretend didnt happen during a game. The very least Leach could have done was raise a little hell and ask for a replay. He has coaches in the press box- shirley somebody saw the ref going to mark the ball and moving his hands over his head. Shirley a player told him they heard a whistle even if he didnt. Wtf? Dont just stand there.

8. The OL is not the problem. When you throw the ball 60 times you are going to have a couple of holding penalties. When you throw the ball 60 times- there is going to be a couple of sacks. Defensive lines in the South just have too many athletes.

9. Defense did their job. Gave up 17 points to a pretty good offense.

10. Not kicking the FG to start the 3rd Q bit us in the ass. Not having a decent 2 point play bit us in the ass. Being soft as an offense bit us in the ass in the red zone. Onside kicking a 2nd time in a row instead of kicking it deep bit us in the ass. Not changing your offense for 25 years bit us in the ass. We scored 29 points on a team that gave up 50 to Arkansas State. Ark State scored 3 points on Washington last night. We scored 34 points on La Tech- since then La Tech has given up 42 points to SE Louisiana and 39 to SMU. We are the worst offense La Tech has faced this year. Scheme isnt the problem tho is it?

This team isnt going bowling in 2021 unless our GPA gets us in again with 5 wins. Provided we somehow get a 5th

Spot on 34.

This is what we deserve because we have too many people in charge and fans who think we are doing good right now.

Rest of the football world (esp OM) is laughing their tails off at us. Poor ole missitippi state

[dawgday166]

I suggest you listen to Hoops. He knows more than you.

Not hardly but ... whatever. Everything I said about 2014/2016 is true. I'm not saying this will turn around yet but I am saying it is still too early to tell. That's all I'm saying right now. There is a lot that can be improved and I am questioning Leach's enthusiasm some myself.

[KOdawg1]

I was under the impression that Leach didn?t need big time QBs. So I don?t blame Will. It?s the offense.

It's both.

[R2Dawg]

Our team under Mullen immediately became better running the ball. The reason? Better scheme.

We went from embarrassment to really good in the span of one year, from 2008 to 2009.

If you think I?m wrong, go back and watch the 2008 egg bowl and then watch the 2009 egg bowl. Mullen installed a competent offense and took advantage of what we had, he didn?t wait 3-4 years to bring his guys in.

Leach is getting paid to win games now, not run a scheme we aren?t equipped to run.

The people saying scheme works when he gets his people are the same ones that said Croom needed his players to run WCO. Leach needs 5 years to have one year of scheme success. We just gotta wait 3 more years, then find a new excuse like Croom did.

[FISHDAWG]

1. I love college football Saturday's. Football and food. Just a great day of relaxation and cheering for your team and the teams you bet on with some Tito's and a 20 ounce ribeye cooked to a perfect medium pink. And like my boy Jake Wimberly I also use ketchup.

2. Yes we got screwed on the punt return call. So what? There were 110 plats in the game. That 1 play didnt decide it. Why was the team that let Arkansas State score 50 on them that close to begin with?

3. Rogers set some State records yesterday. Most passing attempts. Most completions. Most dump downs to RB's in a game. Slowest run for an attempted 2 point conversion. I could complete 70% of the passes in this offense at age 50 let alone when I was 20

4. Anybody saying that this offensive scheme is not the problem is not a smart person. I'm going to avoid name-calling and not call these people dumbasses. I'm not going to call them football illiterate. I'm not even going to say "shut up stupid". But anybody that thinks an offensive scheme is effective when a defense lines up the same way and plays it the same way over and over and over and over again play after play without changing- is effective? Then those people likely need someone to use a spoon for them and to unbuckle their pants. When Rush 3 and Drop 8 play after mf'ing play is what you know is coming- and you still struggle to score then you aren't an effective playcaller in an effective offense. When a defense plays so vanilla against you play after play and you cant abuse them- then your offense sux.

5. I've seen people post "the offense wasn't the problem. We had 459 yards". First of all we ran 83 plays compared to our normal 65-67. That's like playing an extra quarter for us. So yeah- we had more yards. Secondly- Memphis was giving up an average of 490 yards per game. So the fact that we couldnt even meet their standard of shittiness magnifies the fact that our offense is not good.

6. I hate watching this Wishbone 2020 offense. Snap, drop back, dump down to the RB. Watch RB get blown the **** up by a LB closing downhill at a high rate of speed. Snap, drop back, rush 3 drop 8 yet aGAIN....look around for 5 seconds, hit Williams in the middle of the field for a 6 yard gain. Over and over and over and over. It's like watching a wing-T team almost. It's so painful to watch.

7. You know how to figure out a coach is just collecting a check? Watch his reaction to a blatant missed call by the refs. I went out on the field and picked up the ball before a team could run another play after an inadvertent whistle the refs were just going to try and pretend didnt happen during a game. The very least Leach could have done was raise a little hell and ask for a replay. He has coaches in the press box- shirley somebody saw the ref going to mark the ball and moving his hands over his head. Shirley a player told him they heard a whistle even if he didnt. Wtf? Dont just stand there.

8. The OL is not the problem. When you throw the ball 60 times you are going to have a couple of holding penalties. When you throw the ball 60 times- there is going to be a couple of sacks. Defensive lines in the South just have too many athletes.

9. Defense did their job. Gave up 17 points to a pretty good offense.

10. Not kicking the FG to start the 3rd Q bit us in the ass. Not having a decent 2 point play bit us in the ass. Being soft as an offense bit us in the ass in the red zone. Onside kicking a 2nd time in a row instead of kicking it deep bit us in the ass. Not changing your offense for 25 years bit us in the ass. We scored 29 points on a team that gave up 50 to Arkansas State. Ark State scored 3 points on Washington last night. We scored 34 points on La Tech- since then La Tech has given up 42 points to SE Louisiana and 39 to SMU. We are the worst offense La Tech has faced this year. Scheme isnt the problem tho is it?

This team isnt going bowling in 2021 unless our GPA gets us in again with 5 wins. Provided we somehow get a 5th

Have some rep for nailing it ... I would also like to say that Rogers isn't the qb for this offense and Cohen isn't the AD for us ... everyone can flame away at me if you like but it won't change my mind one bit

[Cowbell]

Maybe so but he also needs the personnel to do that. Right now he doesn't have that and maybe he isn't recruiting it either. I'm not keeping up with recruiting enough to know for sure right now. Historically speaking tho his QBs don't run and I do think that would help if we had a QB that could make teams pay more when 8 are dropped. So you may have a valid point if he doesn't adapt some.

You adapt to what you have. You never here good coaches complain about not having their guys.

[Maroonthirteen]

False.

You're seeing 4 guys running between 8 DBs 20-25 yards away from the QB. those windows close quick.

Leachs offense invites 7-8 dBs dropped back covering 4 WR. His offense rarely does anything to get isolated 1on1 matchups. The few times Rogers did have a 1on1 matchup behind the coverage. Memphis was in man to man and Rogers was 2-3 on those throws.

[KOdawg1]

You're seeing 4 guys running between 8 DBs 20-25 yards away from the QB. those windows close quick.

Leachs offense invites 7-8 dBs dropped back covering 4 WR. His offense rarely does anything to get isolated 1on1 matchups. The few times Rogers did have a 1on1 matchup behind the coverage. Memphis was in man to man and Rogers was 2-3 on those throws.

Nope. I'm seeing Malik Heath waving his arms, jumping up and down as Will tosses it to Dillon Johnson for 2 yards.

[shoeless joe]

Nope. I'm seeing Malik Heath waving his arms, jumping up and down as Will tosses it to Dillon Johnson for 2 yards.

Or walley all alone at the pylon and we throw a 3 yard loss to Calvin.

[Coach34]

Nope. I'm seeing Malik Heath waving his arms, jumping up and down as Will tosses it to Dillon Johnson for 2 yards.

To be fair- Heath has thought he was wide open on every play since the 10th grade

[Bothrops]

I think we'll improve to 5-7 on the season and hopefully turn down a bowl if invited. We'll finish last in the west.

[BeardoMSU]

You adapt to what you have. You never here good coaches complain about not having their guys.

But some how, this is the excuse Mike gets...as if he's special or something. Insanity.

[Cowbell]

But some how, this is the excuse Mike gets...as if he's special or something. Insanity.

Him and joe. And our girls basketball coach

[Lance Harbor]

Was it Prime Rib at the corner or the Marlboro light smoke?



Pirate is Emory II, past his time and hard headed. That second half of sorry ass football was bad. Yes to what you say about punt return, shouldn't have come down to that. What a dumb move not taking points after interception up by 10 with mo on our side. After that it was all down hill!

Btw 34, The Pirate loved the Corner Bar in Natchez. I guess it reminded him of Key West.

[Percho]

You guys realize why they are getting hurt right ?! 34 covered - heck I started a thread about it last season

The very reason I believe it should be a check up offense. LB's bail quickly, hit the rb quickly while the LB's are backing up. They probably could run forever against that. Then when that slowed the LB drop you could do something else.

[Percho]

Of course you don't. To be fair, if I were trying to justify bad qb play, I would avoid those 2 also.

Was the fade that was not caught for a TD a bad QB play? A bad play call by coach Leach?

[SilentSteel16]

To be fair- Heath has thought he was wide open on every play since the 10th grade

Haha. That is great and spot on. Haha

[Percho]

The most disappointing thing about Leach is the sloppiness and a lack of attention to detail. Everything else is what we thought it was.

I hope the kinks get worked out. I hope Rogers figured out how to read the whole field and find the wide ass open receivers. But I?m not a fan of this style of offense?and wasn?t when we hired the man. Nothing has changed my mind.

I agree with this post esp the first line.

[msstate7]

Was the fade that was not caught for a TD a bad QB play? A bad play call by coach Leach?

In the 3rd quarter? That was a bad pass or bad route one bc the wr had to totally turn around with ball in air. It was 50 ft in front of me

[basedog]

Was it Prime Rib at the corner or the Marlboro light smoke?

LOL, he did have a good dinner and turned down a chance to see some beautiful homes and such to get a friendly bar seat at the Corner Bar. I don't hate him for having a good time, it's who he is.

[Maverick91]

Nope. I'm seeing Malik Heath waving his arms, jumping up and down as Will tosses it to Dillon Johnson for 2 yards.

That has to be so frustrating for Heath and the others.

[Turfdawg67]

But the kid won't push the ball down the field. He has no mobility. He has bad pocket presence. He takes 12 seconds to make decisions. He's the best we've got right now. I get that.

This is it in a nutshell... although I did fix one word. He obviously "can" push the ball down the field. The 4th qtrs against La Tech and Memphis were exciting and well executed, and for that I'm not ready to give up on the scheme working here. And for those that would claim it's because of a prevent defense, wrong. We play against a prevent defense every play.

[Maverick91]

This is it in a nutshell... although I did fix one word. He obviously "can" push the ball down the field. The 4th qtrs against La Tech and Memphis were exciting and well executed, and for that I'm not ready to give up on the scheme working here. And for those that would claim it's because of a prevent defense, wrong. We play against a prevent defense every play.

Agreed! Question is why wont he do it all freaking game long?

[confucius say]

Of course you don't. To be fair, if I were trying to justify bad qb play, I would avoid those 2 also.

I agree with most of the OP points.

But will has played plenty well enough to have us 3-0 and on the path for a bowl game. Which is all anybody expected out of him. He's limited and is doing what he can.

The biggest controllable problem is the crap that is going on around him. We don't play clean. False starts, too many men off the field, numerous fumbles, personal fouls. Just sloppy. That is the most disappointing thing to me.

[1bigdawg]

You lose credibility with your first take. Ketchup on steak means you don't know what your doing on a grill.

Second the reason this system isn't working is because we still don't have the players to run it effectively. Y'all act like we have the best receivers in the world. Most of our receivers are still young. Our Qb is still young. ( even though I don't trust him ) .

Do we not have the players or are we not getting Tulu the ball?

[tcdog70]

To be fair- Heath has thought he was wide open on every play since the 10th grade

I remember saying we needing to sign Drummond, but experts on here said he was a system WR and not SEC quality. But Heath was the real deal.. right--Heath wasn't the leading wr at Co-Lin--but Drummond lead all Juco.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I remember saying we needing to sign Drummond, but experts on here said he was a system WR and not SEC quality. But Heath was the real deal.. right--Heath wasn't the leading wr at Co-Lin--but Drummond lead all Juco.

Heath has grown up a lot. Come a long long long way. But if some on here knew how far he had to go when we signed him they would have never wanted him

[Todd4State]

I remember saying we needing to sign Drummond, but experts on here said he was a system WR and not SEC quality. But Heath was the real deal.. right--Heath wasn't the leading wr at Co-Lin--but Drummond lead all Juco.

Heath has been pretty good for us. I would have been fine with both though.