Aight, armchair corches. How would you fix our OL?

[Indndawg]

Short of kidnapping Bama's line

[FriarsPoint]

Tighten the splits.

[louisvilledawg]

Also, I watched some of the highlights and on a couple of sacks and the pick six, Rogers had 4 seconds or more to throw the ball.

Yeah the o line didn't play great, but Will also held onto the ball too long.

[speedy1972]

Also, I watched some of the highlights and on a couple of sacks and the pick six, Rogers had 4 seconds or more to throw the ball.

Yeah the o line didn't play great, but Will also held onto the ball too long.

Will is not an All American but his accuracy is something we haven't seen since Dak 2014-15. He just needs to have better pocket awareness and he has to take more of those 6-8 yard runs that every team we've faced is "giving" him. Not saying he has to be Michael Vick but Peyton Manning looks to run more than Will!

[thf24]

Play like they did in the fourth quarter for an entire game. Simple as that.

[HoopsDawg]

tighten the splits. Learn from Kiffin, Briles, Lincoln Riley, Holgerson etc. This would require some humility from Leach and a willingness to adapt and put in work.

Or he can ride out the contract at 5 million per year and retire to Key West.

[Lord McBuckethead]

The OL played poorly. No doubt about it. Rodgers holding the ball is an issue as well. If he is holding the ball more than 4 seconds, he should be unloading a 30 yard throw.

1. Get to 35-40% called running plays. Add jet sweep actions and HB Dive plays. We have to get their LBs and DL guessing what is happening. NOthing we are doing right now forces any of them to do any thinking or adjusting. They twist, blitz, etc and are correct 80%+ of the time. All DL players are pinning their ears back. LBs are just dropping and watching and we are not hitting our players in the windows when they are still moving. Everyone has to dead stop to get a completion against a zone.

2. Roll the QB out sometimes? Seems like we do nothing to force the DBs to adjust their defensive placement.

3. QB needs to get the ball out faster. Take Ole Miss for instance. They use the mesh point to move the LBs out of the way. Quick slant all day. When they do hand it off, they are gone before the defense can adjust, because they are all trying to play zone. Exactly how they attack our offense, but UM is looking to attack full speed every play. They have a window and their QB drills it. Not unlike our game last year against LSU, except they are doing it against a zone defense instead of man.

3.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Will is not an All American but his accuracy is something we haven't seen since Dak 2014-15. He just needs to have better pocket awareness and he has to take more of those 6-8 yard runs that every team we've faced is "giving" him. Not saying he has to be Michael Vick but Peyton Manning looks to run more than Will!

Tom Brady looks to run more than Will. It would help if the LB and DE had to account on him running. Opportunities would abound.

[Dawgology]

Short of kidnapping Bama's line

The season has started so I don't know how much could be done to "fix" it outside of just letting them learn through the season.

Will needs to tuck it and run a lot more if there is no one open on the 2nd read. Just get those 4-5 yards. Doesn't seem like much but with the gaps he has to run through he could just about march us down the field doing that. Eventually they will have to load more men in the box with that approach or put a spy on him which frees someone up.

[Indndawg]

The OL played poorly. No doubt about it. Rodgers holding the ball is an issue as well. If he is holding the ball more than 4 seconds, he should be unloading a 30 yard throw.

1. Get to 35-40% called running plays. Add jet sweep actions and HB Dive plays. We have to get their LBs and DL guessing what is happening. NOthing we are doing right now forces any of them to do any thinking or adjusting. They twist, blitz, etc and are correct 80%+ of the time. All DL players are pinning their ears back. LBs are just dropping and watching and we are not hitting our players in the windows when they are still moving. Everyone has to dead stop to get a completion against a zone. Is Correct

2. Roll the QB out sometimes? Seems like we do nothing to force the DBs to adjust their defensive placement.

3. QB needs to get the ball out faster. Take Ole Miss for instance. They use the mesh point to move the LBs out of the way. Quick slant all day. When they do hand it off, they are gone before the defense can adjust, because they are all trying to play zone. Exactly how they attack our offense, but UM is looking to attack full speed every play. They have a window and their QB drills it. Not unlike our game last year against LSU, except they are doing it against a zone defense instead of man.

3.

That rock has got to run much much more

[WinningIsRelentless]

Either shorten the splits or the backs are going to have to read the twist and rub the de going out in the pattern to give the g better positioning.

[Hot Rock]

They played great when they actually picked up the assignments properly and that was with the wide splits. I say just keep coaching them. That was the first time these players have ever played together in a live game and they got better as the game went along, not worse.

QB play, has to get better too. Getting the ball out in a timely manner, having better pocket awareness, stepping up and getting the ball out when there are opportunities instead of panicking, attacking more downfield, anticipating throws. All those have to get better. Thing is, all those things happened in the 4th qtr at a much better rate. People forget that Rogers is just a sophomore and only starting his 6th game.

Running the ball will help, either by him or the RB's. The RB's averaged 6 yards a carry this past game. That's pretty darn good and you may have seen more of it had the game score been different.

One thing to remember, when you drop back 50 times a game, you will have some sacks and INT's too. They actually are having fewer sacks per pass play than they have had in years past. I don't think this OL is as bad as I thought it was after seeing Matt's film study. It was bad, but what happened does look like it's addressable. We better hope so or it's going to be a long year.

[SheltonChoked]

Play like they did in the fourth quarter for an entire game. Simple as that.

This.

[Mjoelner34]

[QUOTE=Hot Rock;1359007 ..... It was bad, but what happened does look like it's addressable.[/QUOTE]


This. As bad as it was, it appeared to be mental (as in not knowing assignments or lack of communication) which can be coached. On the other hand, if the pressure was because our O-linemen were getting their shit pushed in, then that would be a cause for panic. As it is, there is hope that they can be coached up and get better as the season goes on.

[starkvegasdawg]

A lot of that was Will holding on to the ball too long. Mjoelner sent me some screen grabs where we had receivers running open all day long and they weren't getting the ball. Wyatt's film study showed the same thing. Yes, the line had some communication issues at times that led to pressure, but I'd say 65-70% was Will sitting on the ball like he was trying to see what would hatch.

[OLJWales]

Also, I watched some of the highlights and on a couple of sacks and the pick six, Rogers had 4 seconds or more to throw the ball.

Yeah the o line didn't play great, but Will also held onto the ball too long.

You saw that too?

[coachnorm]

A lot of that was Will holding on to the ball too long. Mjoelner sent me some screen grabs where we had receivers running open all day long and they weren't getting the ball. Wyatt's film study showed the same thing. Yes, the line had some communication issues at times that led to pressure, but I'd say 65-70% was Will sitting on the ball like he was trying to see what would hatch.

Agree with you. Some offenses prioritize the quarterback get rid of the ball to keep the O line from bad fortune. The same offenses demand that the receivers win their routes and that does not mean counting steps and running geometry. There is a lot more to it than that. There is no justice when receivers fail to execute the required technique to get positioned and then fail to win the contested ball also, yet the O line gets grief when the quarterback has to hold on to the ball?

[Todd4State]

How do offensive linemen communicate who to pick when a defense stunts, twists, etc?

[BeardoMSU]

I know what Brian Kelly would say.**


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqw462sHIcA&ab_channel=Decrypit

[Pinto]

Put #69 on the bench.

[Cowbell]

1. Narrower splits
2. Designed QB runs
3. Designed play action roll outs
4. Will not hesitating to run out of the pocket

[Cowbell]

Put #69 on the bench.
Well he might have taken care of that himself by getting arrested.

[bulldawg28]

How do offensive linemen communicate who to pick when a defense stunts, twists, etc?

It's called out by usually by the center AND Qb. OL have schemes they block based on the alignment and plays called. I honestly think our lineman just block straight up whomever is in front of them. They appear lost when stunts or twist happens. Usually they are picked up easily. The stunts and twist are another reason the OL should tighten their splits. You can't properly block, hand off your man, or zone block with those humongous splits.

[Cowbell]

It's called out by usually by the center AND Qb. OL have schemes they block based on the alignment and plays called. I honestly think our lineman just block straight up whomever is in front of them. They appear lost when stunts or twist happens. Usually they are picked up easily. The stunts and twist are another reason the OL should tighten their splits. You can't properly block, hand off your man, or zone block with those humongous splits.

Dead on

[ScoobaDawg]

Whatever changed in the 4th quarter. Keep doing it

[PMDawg]

1. Narrower splits
2. Designed QB runs
3. Designed play action roll outs
4. Will not hesitating to run out of the pocket

This. Especially #3, even if it's not roll outs. Just some more "real" play actions. Not the variety where it's just a motion where the RB isn't even in position to take a hand off anyway.

[Prediction? Pain.]

They played great when they actually picked up the assignments properly and that was with the wide splits. I say just keep coaching them. That was the first time these players have ever played together in a live game and they got better as the game went along, not worse.

QB play, has to get better too. Getting the ball out in a timely manner, having better pocket awareness, stepping up and getting the ball out when there are opportunities instead of panicking, attacking more downfield, anticipating throws. All those have to get better. Thing is, all those things happened in the 4th qtr at a much better rate. People forget that Rogers is just a sophomore and only starting his 6th game.

Running the ball will help, either by him or the RB's. The RB's averaged 6 yards a carry this past game. That's pretty darn good and you may have seen more of it had the game score been different.

One thing to remember, when you drop back 50 times a game, you will have some sacks and INT's too. They actually are having fewer sacks per pass play than they have had in years past. I don't think this OL is as bad as I thought it was after seeing Matt's film study. It was bad, but what happened does look like it's addressable. We better hope so or it's going to be a long year.

Great point, dude. In the two years before Leach got here, our pass blocking -- which had been solid in Mullen's last few years -- went to pot. In 2018, we were 99th nationally in sack rate (% of pass attempts that resulted in sacks). In 2019, we were 119th. 10% of our pass attempts resulted in a sack. Yikes.

Last year, the sack rate lowered to around 6% and our rank jumped up to 62nd nationally. Better, but still not up what's possible under Leach. In his last two years at WSU, Leach had them at 1st and 3rd nationally, with less than 3% of their pass attempts resulting in sacks.

Now, the sack rate alone isn't the only indicator of a line's pass blocking. If Will's constantly having to throw it away or scramble or whatever, then that's no good, either, even if he's avoiding sacks. I'm not sure that's what was happening all day Saturday, though.

And as others have said, it's not all the line, regardless. If dude's got 2.5 seconds or so, the ball needs to be gone.

[ShotgunDawg]

1. I think lowering the splits is low hanging fruit & also not going to happen, so it's not even worth discussing.

2. I think we've seen enough flashes to realize "we're capable" on the OL but terribly inconsistent.

3. Thus, I don't think there is a magic bullet to fix the OL & realize that is maddening & will likely cost us some games this year. However, we have the best WRs in school history this year & that's only going to improve in time. As frustrating as it is currently, I think this is the right path. That being said, the fix to the OL is for them to develop instincts for what the coach's want. Most all these guys were recruited to run the ball or be play action pass blockers. Things will get better in time, but it won't get better from a correction. It'll get better due to the OL gaining instincts, intuition, & trust in what they're doing. It may take a while but it's the reality & the right path

[Coach34]

And as others have said, it's not all the line, regardless. If dude's got 2.5 seconds or so, the ball needs to be gone.

Normally yes. But we are talking about having to read defenses playing soft. Playing pass first play after play after play. Because the D is never looking run- they are in those pass drops more easily and ready to break on the ball. Some of you are seeing some open guys from up above- but the D has players ready to break on the ball. Come from underneath and such to defend.

It's things like- we may run the ball on consecutive plays once per game. So a DC making calls/Defense knows almost 100% of the time after a run that a pass is coming the next play.

Want to help the OL? Cut the splits down a little to give them better angles, run the ball a little more, and add an RPO or play-action to the scheme. Those things would make this offense viable

[PMDawg]

Normally yes. But we are talking about having to read defenses playing soft. Playing pass first play after play after play. Because the D is never looking run- they are in those pass drops more easily and ready to break on the ball. Some of you are seeing some open guys from up above- but the D has players ready to break on the ball. Come from underneath and such to defend.

It's things like- we may run the ball on consecutive plays once per game. So a DC making calls/Defense knows almost 100% of the time after a run that a pass is coming the next play.

Want to help the OL? Cut the splits down a little to give them better angles, run the ball a little more, and add an RPO or play-action to the scheme. Those things would make this offense viable

Another thing I keep seeing is "we're not going deep often enough". While true, it's easier said than done when we see 8 defenders playing zone 90%+ of the time. Defenses are actively scheming to keep everything in front of them and then rally to the ball. And it's extremely effective because of exactly what you said. Even when defenses man up on a couple of our receivers, they usually still have deep help.

Just spit balling here, but what about trying some back shoulder throws to combat that?

[R2Dawg]

Normally yes. But we are talking about having to read defenses playing soft. Playing pass first play after play after play. Because the D is never looking run- they are in those pass drops more easily and ready to break on the ball. Some of you are seeing some open guys from up above- but the D has players ready to break on the ball. Come from underneath and such to defend.

It's things like- we may run the ball on consecutive plays once per game. So a DC making calls/Defense knows almost 100% of the time after a run that a pass is coming the next play.

Want to help the OL? Cut the splits down a little to give them better angles, run the ball a little more, and add an RPO or play-action to the scheme. Those things would make this offense viable

I think everyone has hit on all the things we could do and I agree with most of them.

Big problem is Leach ain't going to do any of them. He runs his unit how he runs his unit. That is what Cohen hired and that is what we got. Not adapting is Leach's biggest issue and why I didn't like the hire. Everything else is fine and we can deal with even if I don't agree with everything 100%, it ain't a deal breaker. But being single minded no matter what, that is a killer.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

If you are playing defense against us, you only have to cover 20 yards from the Line of Scrimmage? we have to at least try a deep shot or two, which you can do on a 3 step drop.

[Cowbell]

Normally yes. But we are talking about having to read defenses playing soft. Playing pass first play after play after play. Because the D is never looking run- they are in those pass drops more easily and ready to break on the ball. Some of you are seeing some open guys from up above- but the D has players ready to break on the ball. Come from underneath and such to defend.

It's things like- we may run the ball on consecutive plays once per game. So a DC making calls/Defense knows almost 100% of the time after a run that a pass is coming the next play.

Want to help the OL? Cut the splits down a little to give them better angles, run the ball a little more, and add an RPO or play-action to the scheme. Those things would make this offense viable

100% this - and our run plays are not disguised well so linebackers are able to read it and get upfield in a hurry - they are giving us the first 2-3 yards.

[Coach34]

If you are playing defense against us, you only have to cover 20 yards from the Line of Scrimmage? we have to at least try a deep shot or two, which you can do on a 3 step drop.

But thats the point. We dont run enough or play action to hold the safeties. We dont force safeties into a position to be more aggressive. Most of your deep balls are going to get eaten up by a soft CB or a safety helping. Teams are forcing us to throw underneath. They believe by playing soft and not giving up big plays- we will make a drive killing hold, give up a sack, or turn it over way more often than driving all the way down the field.

10-20 years ago it was blitz QB's and make them throw quick. Stop the run and force the pass. Now defenses are playing with 3 man fronts and covering. Force offenses to run- not pass

[Coach34]

100% this - and our run plays are not disguised well so linebackers are able to read it and get upfield in a hurry - they are giving us the first 2-3 yards.

This is also why Mississippi is able to throw slants and seam routes more effectively than we are. They run the ball. LB'ers have to step up against the run- which vacates throwing lanes for the slants or seam. We don't do that- so the LB'ers are ready to jump slants at all times against us unless its 3rd & 2 or less where we might actually run it. So our pass plays take more time to develop- which forces the QB to read/hold it longer/ which equates to more holds and sacks.

[OLJWales]

Wouldn't draw plays be more effective than play action with our Offense?

[Cowbell]

Wouldn't draw plays be more effective than play action with our Offense?
Not when you are handing off out of shotgun. The linebackers have time to meet you at the LOS.

[HoopsDawg]

But thats the point. We dont run enough or play action to hold the safeties. We dont force safeties into a position to be more aggressive. Most of your deep balls are going to get eaten up by a soft CB or a safety helping. Teams are forcing us to throw underneath. They believe by playing soft and not giving up big plays- we will make a drive killing hold, give up a sack, or turn it over way more often than driving all the way down the field.

10-20 years ago it was blitz QB's and make them throw quick. Stop the run and force the pass. Now defenses are playing with 3 man fronts and covering. Force offenses to run- not pass

Louisville vs Ole Miss was 3 man front vs 3 man front. When Leach was at Texas Tech, teams were running a 4-3 with 3 meathead LB's and run stopping safeties. That's not the case anymore yet he hasn't adjusted at all. Every other coach under him has adjusted. It's maddening, but who gives a F when you are pulling in 5 mill a year right?

[Hot Rock]

I really thought the wide splits were the biggest problem with the OL for a long time. I am not so sure of that anymore. From what I saw and I know it's just one game but after watching Matt's film studies, the guys you have out there can block in space much better this year. They need to clean up stunt and twist pickup along with communications. They did a good job in the 4th qtr of doing that after stinking it up for the middle of the game. That was the very first game they ever played together. They had been going at it in practice but you learn your opponent if you see them everyday.

I think having wide splits just means you need OL that know how to block in space. In other words, you will need people blocking at the guard positions that have the ability to play Left tackle rather than be road graders. Thus, Leach goes after more of those types of OL recruits. The only guy on the line that can be more of the interior, shorter arm, road grader, O-line type is the center. The guys playing guard this year have played the tackle position more in their careers.

[PMDawg]

Wouldn't draw plays be more effective than play action with our Offense?

To add to Cowbell's response to you, they also don't work that well because defenses normally have 5 to 8 defenders playing zone against us. That's a lot of eyes in the backfield. And I bet the only play we have that would look like a draw to those guys is...a draw.

Also, if they're only rushing 3, chances are their linemen are not streaking into the backfield to overrun the draw.

[Cowbell]

To add to Cowbell's response to you, they also don't work that well because defenses normally have 5 to 8 defenders playing zone against us. That's a lot of eyes in the backfield. And I bet the only play we have that would look like a draw to those guys is...a draw.

Also, if they're only rushing 3, chances are their linemen are not streaking into the backfield to overrun the draw.

Agreed 100%

[OLJWales]

How is play action gonna work when the D is already anticipating pass?

[Cowbell]

How is play action gonna work when the D is already anticipating pass?

Well to have play action you have to run first to set it up, so that is implied. And it doesn't have to be much. Just more than we currently hand off and more disguised.

[OLJWales]

For some reason I can't remember do we take any snaps under center or is it all shotgun?

[Cowbell]

For some reason I can't remember do we take any snaps under center or is it all shotgun?

All shotgun - the #1 issue with this offense. On a goal line stand we will not go under center

[OLJWales]

All shotgun - the #1 issue with this offense. On a goal line stand we will not go under center

Idn't that what Mullen does too? Seems mixing it up would keep the D off balance; lining up shotgun then QB quickly gets under center and vice versa

[coachnorm]

Normally yes. But we are talking about having to read defenses playing soft. Playing pass first play after play after play. Because the D is never looking run- they are in those pass drops more easily and ready to break on the ball. Some of you are seeing some open guys from up above- but the D has players ready to break on the ball. Come from underneath and such to defend.

It's things like- we may run the ball on consecutive plays once per game. So a DC making calls/Defense knows almost 100% of the time after a run that a pass is coming the next play.

Want to help the OL? Cut the splits down a little to give them better angles, run the ball a little more, and add an RPO or play-action to the scheme. Those things would make this offense viable

I once called a high school game as a defensive coordinator and played pass about 90% because my scouting directed me to try it. I was having it my way most of the game because the opponent play caller would only gash my defense a few times. When the gash happened it was ugly. I gambled that the play caller would not do it on consecutive plays and I was correct. The play callers decision to stay true to his beliefs made me look smarter than I actually was.

[OLJWales]

I once called a high school game as a defensive coordinator and played pass about 90% because my scouting directed me to try it. I was having it my way most of the game because the opponent play caller would only gash my defense a few times. When the gash happened it was ugly. I gambled that the play caller would not do it on consecutive plays and I was correct. The play callers decision to stay true to his beliefs made me look smarter than I actually was.

Post more please. Solid sir.

[PMDawg]

How is play action gonna work when the D is already anticipating pass?

If you can freeze a LB for a split second, then you open up a spot in his zone.

[Cowbell]

Idn't that what Mullen does too? Seems mixing it up would keep the D off balance; lining up shotgun then QB quickly gets under center and vice versa
No mill mixes it up. Do you not remember dak QB sneaking it on the goal line abd it was unstoppable.

[OLJWales]

No mill mixes it up. Do you not remember dak QB sneaking it on the goal line abd it was unstoppable.

I sure do thank you