Let's say Leach goes 6-6 this season

[Coach34]

The consensus here seems to be 7-8 wins. Vastly improved O and a good D

What if we go 6-6 and 2-6 in the SEC with wins over Vandy and Mississippi? I add the win over Mississippi because if we lose that one its going to be a long offseason unless we already had 7 wins going into the game. Would 6-6/2-6 make you feel the program was headed in the right direction?

[Matt3467]

The consensus here seems to be 7-8 wins. Vastly improved O and a good D

What if we go 6-6 and 2-6 in the SEC with wins over Vandy and Mississippi? I add the win over Mississippi because if we lose that one its going to be a long offseason unless we already had 7 wins going into the game. Would 6-6/2-6 make you feel the program was headed in the right direction?

Yes. Since before Leach's first game I already thought it'd be year 3 where the pieces began to fall in place with a break out year 4. Of course that is if he get's that long.

[confucius say]

Assuming relative health, I'd be mildly disappointed at 6-6.

I have us at 7-5, so it would only be one game off.

ETA: I don't think our offense will be vastly improved. Just improved. Good defense.

[Catfish]

I don't think we can even count last with covid and everything else going on. Not counting the bowl win we had three wins last year. So yes, 6-6 shows we are heading in the right direction. Keep stirring the pot!

[KOdawg1]

Depends on how we look doing it. If we have to check down every other play or we can't guard 3, then it'll be pretty evident it's not going to work.

If we move the ball effectively but lose some close ones, then I'd be okay with it.

[HoopsDawg]

Yes. Since before Leach's first game I already thought it'd be year 3 where the pieces began to fall in place with a break out year 4. Of course that is if he get's that long.

So we are going to be better in Year 3 after losing our LT, C, and RT? Leach himself keeps saying Oline is the most important position on a football team.

[Cowbell]

The consensus here seems to be 7-8 wins. Vastly improved O and a good D

What if we go 6-6 and 2-6 in the SEC with wins over Vandy and Mississippi? I add the win over Mississippi because if we lose that one its going to be a long offseason unless we already had 7 wins going into the game. Would 6-6/2-6 make you feel the program was headed in the right direction?

If you go 6-6 with our defensive talent this year you should be put on notice...
ETA : Arnette doesn't seem like a guy who wants to be a part of mediocrity so I would expect him to take a better offer if this happens.

[thf24]

Since historically year 2 shows improvement but year 3 is when he really takes off, yes. Said improvement definitely needs to clearly show from the outset, though.

[HoopsDawg]

6-6 is the perfect number to use. It's realistic. It gives the sunshine crew optimism. It gives the negative crew pessimism.

Personally, I think Leach is a stop gap. It was the best Cohen could do after we missed on Judge and Napier. We aren't heading in the right direction under him. Hopefully, we aren't heading in the complete wrong direction. It's just a 3-5 year experiment. Is what it is, so to speak.

[drummerdawg]

I'm expecting 6-6 and I'm fine with that for this season. Being 5-6 going into the EB would kinda suck, but a win would bring momentum and some excitement going into the bowl game makin us feel better after a mediocre season.

[Percho]

I have been a bulldog fan for 62 years and I am not sure God could win 10 games at MSU. 6-6 would be going on the right direction.

Would like to ask HoopsDawg who as a coach he believes could be a consistent big time winner at MSU that MSU could actually hire?

BTW I would like to win more than 6 and hope we can.

[TrapGame]

C'mon 34, if the offense is "vastly improved" we're winning more than 6 games.

If the offense looks pretty good in those 6 losses I'm good with it. If it's still the Key Stone Cops every other snap then I'll be looking to join the Dark Side.

[BrunswickDawg]

The consensus here seems to be 7-8 wins. Vastly improved O and a good D

What if we go 6-6 and 2-6 in the SEC with wins over Vandy and Mississippi? I add the win over Mississippi because if we lose that one its going to be a long offseason unless we already had 7 wins going into the game. Would 6-6/2-6 make you feel the program was headed in the right direction?

I agree with most about it depends on how we get there. If the offense is improved, most of the losses close, and the wins are relatively easy games, then I say headed in the right direction.
If the offense is inept, our wins are squeakers, and the losses are blow outs, then year 3 better produce.

[HoopsDawg]

I have been a bulldog fan for 62 years and I am not sure God could win 10 games at MSU. 6-6 would be going on the right direction.

Would like to ask HoopsDawg who as a coach he believes could be a consistent big time winner at MSU that MSU could actually hire?

BTW I would like to win more than 6 and hope we can.

6-6 isn't the right direction. It's the absolute minimum. As Coach34 mentioned, we could go 2-6 in the SEC and still be 6-6 overall. This isn't 1988 when we only played 11 games and non conference teams like USM had similar if not better recruiting and resources than we did.

I do not believe Leach will recruit well enough and I do not believe Leach has evolved his offense enough over the years to take us anywhere other than 5-7 to 8-4.

Both Jackie Sherrill and Dan Mullen are 2 coaches who have shown us what can be accomplished at MSU. Consistent big time winner? No But making an interesting run every 4-5 years? Yes

[confucius say]

6-6 isn't the right direction. It's the absolute minimum. As Coach34 mentioned, we could go 2-6 in the SEC and still be 6-6 overall. This isn't 1988 when we only played 11 games and non conference teams like USM had similar if not better recruiting and resources than we did.

I do not believe Leach will recruit well enough and I do not believe Leach has evolved his offense enough over the years to take us anywhere other than 5-7 to 8-4.

Both Jackie Sherrill and Dan Mullen are 2 coaches who have shown us what can be accomplished at MSU. Consistent big time winner? No But making an interesting run every 4-5 years? Yes

Dan averaged 7-5. Leach will do the same.

[FISHDAWG]

The consensus here seems to be 7-8 wins. Vastly improved O and a good D

What if we go 6-6 and 2-6 in the SEC with wins over Vandy and Mississippi? I add the win over Mississippi because if we lose that one its going to be a long offseason unless we already had 7 wins going into the game. Would 6-6/2-6 make you feel the program was headed in the right direction?

I'm expecting 6 & 6 and yes I would be satisfied with that THIS YEAR ... however, next year is a different story

[thf24]

I do not believe Leach will recruit well enough and I do not believe Leach has evolved his offense enough over the years to take us anywhere other than 5-7 to 8-4.

I don't think there's any significant evidence to support either of these ideas with any confidence.

Leach recruited about the same at his last two jobs as those programs did without him. If that holds here, that's the same talent level that got us to #1 in the country once and put 10 wins within striking distance a few other times in the past decade under a guy who wasn't fully committed all the time. I know this current class is pretty disappointing so far, but it's a weird cycle for more than one reason, and I bet we still beat Mullen's 41-ranked second full class. If Leach does in the end totally tank from the level our program has been recruiting at for pretty much the entire current era of ratings, rankings and media coverage, it'll be an unprecedented event in his career.

Your second point is more subjective as far as the records are concerned, but the reports coming out of practice that we're running a lot more and incorporating some read option and QB runs indicate that Leach is in fact evolving his offense. We'll see if those actually show up in games this year, but at least for now, the trend is not that Leach is stubbornly doing the same things he always has.

[HoopsDawg]

I don't think there's any significant evidence to support either of these ideas with any confidence.

Leach recruited about the same at his last two jobs as those programs did without him. If that holds here, that's the same talent level that got us to #1 in the country once and put 10 wins within striking distance a few other times in the past decade under a guy who wasn't fully committed all the time. I know this current class is pretty disappointing so far, but it's a weird cycle for more than one reason, and I bet we still beat Mullen's 41-ranked second full class. If Leach does in the end totally tank from the level our program has been recruiting at for pretty much the entire current era of ratings, rankings and media coverage, it'll be an unprecedented event in his career.

Your second point is more subjective as far as the records are concerned, but the reports coming out of practice that we're running a lot more and incorporating some read option and QB runs indicate that Leach is in fact evolving his offense. We'll see if those actually show up in games this year, but at least for now, the trend is not that Leach is stubbornly doing the same things he always has.

If Leach evolves his offense like EVERY other coach under him has done, then my opinion will change.

[BrunswickDawg]

6-6 isn't the right direction. It's the absolute minimum. As Coach34 mentioned, we could go 2-6 in the SEC and still be 6-6 overall. This isn't 1988 when we only played 11 games and non conference teams like USM had similar if not better recruiting and resources than we did.

I do not believe Leach will recruit well enough and I do not believe Leach has evolved his offense enough over the years to take us anywhere other than 5-7 to 8-4.

Both Jackie Sherrill and Dan Mullen are 2 coaches who have shown us what can be accomplished at MSU. Consistent big time winner? No But making an interesting run every 4-5 years? Yes

And Dan Mullen showed us it was possible to go 5-7 in year 8, and squeak into a bowl win due to academics. Why is year 2 for Leach a different standard?

[SteelCurtain74]

The consensus here seems to be 7-8 wins. Vastly improved O and a good D

What if we go 6-6 and 2-6 in the SEC with wins over Vandy and Mississippi? I add the win over Mississippi because if we lose that one its going to be a long offseason unless we already had 7 wins going into the game. Would 6-6/2-6 make you feel the program was headed in the right direction?

Based on your scenario, that would mean we lost to Kentucky and Arkansas at home and the only home conference win at home is Ole Miss. To me that would be disappointing. At a minimum, we should get 3 conference wins this year imo.

[HoopsDawg]

And Dan Mullen showed us it was possible to go 5-7 in year 8, and squeak into a bowl win due to academics. Why is year 2 for Leach a different standard?

different standard how? Mullen went 9-4 his 2nd season at MSU and Leach didn't inherit near the same mess. I would love to give you an answer, but I don't understand your point.

[Maverick91]

different standard how? Mullen went 9-4 his 2nd season at MSU and Leach didn't inherit near the same mess. I would love to give you an answer, but I don't understand your point.

I could argue that Leach inherited a stained locker-room. There were some rotten apples on this team and it took time to clean the cupboard.

We were a run heavy team when Mullberger took over, and his transition to his power run system was pretty seamless. The transition from whatever it was that Moorhead runs to what Leach runs is much drastic.

[HoopsDawg]

I could argue that Leach inherited a stained locker-room. There were some rotten apples on this team and it took time to clean the cupboard.

We were a run heavy team when Mullberger took over, and his transition to his power run system was pretty seamless. The transition from whatever it was that Moorhead runs to what Leach runs is much drastic.

everyone says Leach makes a big jump in year 2. shouldn't we expect the same? UK and Vandy in the East. 4 winnable non conference games. UK, Arkansas, and Ole Miss not at their best. AU and LSU not at their peaks. Guys it doesn't get any easier than this for us.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

I?m fine with 6-6, especially with a win over the Sharks. I hate the bastards.

[Dawgology]

He deserves 3 years regardless with his proven track record and the fact that he dropped into the SEC in the middle of Covid. If there is no improvement by the end of season 3 then he gone

[ShotgunDawg]

Depends on how we look doing it. If we have to check down every other play or we can't guard 3, then it'll be pretty evident it's not going to work.

If we move the ball effectively but lose some close ones, then I'd be okay with it.

This is the correct & most logical answer.

What if we win 6 but lose on 3 last second field goals?

Context matters infinitely

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I could argue that Leach inherited a stained locker-room. There were some rotten apples on this team and it took time to clean the cupboard.

We were a run heavy team when Mullberger took over, and his transition to his power run system was pretty seamless. The transition from whatever it was that Moorhead runs to what Leach runs is much drastic.

This narrative has been so overblown. The locker room wasn't the best but it wasn't this cesspool some want to make it.

[thf24]

everyone says Leach makes a big jump in year 2. shouldn't we expect the same?

Statistically it's year 3 he makes the "big" jump. But year 2 must show significant improvement, zero doubt about it.

[viverlibre]

I?d be very happy at 6-6. That?d mean the offense performed better than expected

[HoopsDawg]

I?d be very happy at 6-6. That?d mean the offense performed better than expected

Really? I think you could draw a coach's name out of a hat and he could go 6-6 with this team and this schedule.

[TaleofTwoDogs]

everyone says Leach makes a big jump in year 2. shouldn't we expect the same? UK and Vandy in the East. 4 winnable non conference games. UK, Arkansas, and Ole Miss not at their best. AU and LSU not at their peaks. Guys it doesn't get any easier than this for us.

^^^THIS^^^

I don't understand the fear and loathing we have for our opponents. Except for Bammer, there's no team on our schedule that can't be beaten if we have our pads and hats screwed on right. Would I be satisfied with 6 wins, hell no. The football team needs to take a lesson from the baseball team and just get it done. 8-4 should be the minimum.

[PMDawg]

The consensus here seems to be 7-8 wins. Vastly improved O and a good D

What if we go 6-6 and 2-6 in the SEC with wins over Vandy and Mississippi? I add the win over Mississippi because if we lose that one its going to be a long offseason unless we already had 7 wins going into the game. Would 6-6/2-6 make you feel the program was headed in the right direction?

This is a trap question that you want to use as a "gotcha!" later. Not all 6-6 seasons are created equally. You have to evaluate the season after the fact, once you have all the data. Trying to set the bar before the season isn't helpful.

Btw: My prediction is 6-6. I'm also in the camp of being dubious that Leach can reproduce his past results in the present SEC. We'll see what happens. Your question is still a non starter to me, even though I think we have similar expectations regarding this year....and Leach overall.

[Hot Rock]

I don't know, ask me again at the end of the year. I think that I would be disappointed in 6-6 even with an OM win but I probably could stomach it. That would mean beating at least two of these teams in NC State, OM, ARk, KY, LSU or Auburn.

That could be OK but I would not be excited but give me another bowl win, then yes. I think I would be OK with it.

You give me 3 of those at 7-5, Vandy and the OOC games. Then yes, no matter which three it turned out to be. I think I would feel a lot better, I Know I would if one were OM and then a bowl win.

I don't expect any better than that, anything more and you may have get me out of the clouds.

[RiverCityDawg]

If Leach evolves his offense like EVERY other coach under him has done, then my opinion will change.

Those coaches that have "evolved their offenses" have not generated better results as a head college football coach or really even better offenses than Leach, aside from Riley who is in a different category because he was given keys to a Ferrari.

[Coach34]

Based on your scenario, that would mean we lost to Kentucky and Arkansas at home and the only home conference win at home is Ole Miss. To me that would be disappointing. At a minimum, we should get 3 conference wins this year imo.

We play at UPIg don?t we?

[BrunswickDawg]

different standard how? Mullen went 9-4 his 2nd season at MSU and Leach didn't inherit near the same mess. I would love to give you an answer, but I don't understand your point.

You said 6-6 would not be progressing after a 3-7 season. You inferred that Mullen built up a program to a point that we should not have a 6-6 season. My point was that as late as his 8th year, Mullen had a season worse than what you claim would not be progress. So you are holding Leach to a different standard.

And personally, I think Leach inherited as much of a mess as Mullen.

[Turfdawg67]

different standard how? Mullen went 9-4 his 2nd season at MSU and Leach didn't inherit near the same mess. I would love to give you an answer, but I don't understand your point.

The point is obvious. So you are saying Dan inherited a mess but managed to win 9 games, making him, presumably, a great coach. So what in the world happened to his greatness 6 years later? Guess he created his own mess?

[Coach34]

I’m just going to make a general reply to a few. I’m not trying to trap anything here- just gauging people’s stance right here before kickoff. We can all agree that nobody really would be disappointed at 7-5. That’s a solid Year 2

Thing is- we really have a schedule this year that is built for 8-9 wins. Play really well against NC St, LSU, Kentucky, UPig, and Mississippi? We can bag those 5 wins. Then Throw in Vandy plus the other 3 OOC’s and you’re at 9 wins. We likely won’t see a schedule this friendly again for quite some time.

6-6 would be rather meh in my opinion. If we make the strides in the Air Raid along with a solid D then it’s an 8 win season. 6-6 would be an absolute lack of progress. We have 4 wins on the schedule that just requires the bus to get to the stadium.

[Coach34]

You said 6-6 would not be progressing after a 3-7 season. .

Would 2-6 in the SEC be an improvement over 3-7 in the SEC?

[Turfdawg67]

Would 2-6 in the SEC be an improvement over 3-7 in the SEC?

One less win, one less loss... meh.

[Coach34]

One less win, one less loss... meh.

exactly

[confucius say]

different standard how? Mullen went 9-4 his 2nd season at MSU and Leach didn't inherit near the same mess. I would love to give you an answer, but I don't understand your point.

Leach inherited a disaster.

[SteelCurtain74]

We play at UPIg don?t we?

You are correct. I misread the schedule. In any event, we should still get at least 3 conference wins minimum and go no worse than 7-5.

[Bothrops]

If we go 6-6 we damn well better beat the flat iron heads. I'll manage ok if that's the case.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Leach inherited a disaster.

No he did not. Let's stop acting like he walked into some Ben Howland situation coming behind Rick Ray here.

[Maroonthirteen]

6-6 with this schedule, I'd say he is keeping the football program a float. Not steaming ahead but no sinking. As others have said, that opinion could change if he has a string of bad luck, injuries in close losses. But 6-6 is meh, ok.

[PMDawg]

"We have 4 wins on the schedule that just requires the bus to get to the stadium."

Which 4? I have 3 of those. Tech, Vandy, and TN State. Both Memphis and NC State will be pretty decent this year. LSU is a different animal from last year, and I doubt they play man all game this year.

I like Memphis, Auburn, and Arkansas as our best 3 chances to get to 6. Ole Miss, Kentucky, and NC State are all about the same tier as each other, but a step above Memphis, Auburn, and Ark IMO. I can see anywhere from 2-4 to 4-2 out of those 6.

[CaptainObvious]

Should we not be comparing Leach to Jackie Sherrill instead of Dan Munster?

Munster was in his first head coaching job.

Sherrill coached at 4 programs. Leach is at his 3rd. Leach and Sherrill relatively close in age when they took the MSU job. Sherrill was a few years younger, yet had more head coaching experience. But similar too in their up and down seasons. Sherrill had 6 winning seasons and 6 losing seasons. Leach had up seasons and down seasons at WSU. This was the last coaching job Sherrill had..will likely be the last job Leach has. Templeton 1 hired Jackie in his twilight. Templeton 2 hired Leach in his twilight.

Sherrill never moved the family to Starkville.
Leach hasn?t moved the family to Starkville.

Edited to add:

Sherrill couldn?t remember his players names so he called them by their numbers.

Leach can?t Remember the players classification so he calls them a young team.😎

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Should we not be comparing Leach to Jackie Sherrill instead of Dan Munster?

Munster was in his first head coaching job.

Sherrill coached at 4 programs. Leach is at his 3rd. Leach and Sherrill relatively close in age when they took the MSU job. Sherrill was a few years younger, yet had more head coaching experience. But similar too in their up and down seasons. Sherrill had 6 winning seasons and 6 losing seasons. Leach had up seasons and down seasons at WSU. This was the last coaching job Sherrill had..will likely be the last job Leach has. Templeton 1 hired Jackie in his twilight. Templeton 2 hired Leach in his twilight.

Sherrill never moved the family to Starkville.
Leach hasn?t moved the family to Starkville.

Edited to add:

Sherrill couldn?t remember his players names so he called them by their numbers.

Leach can?t Remember the players classification so he calls them a young team.��

Jackie came to MSU when he was 47 thats hardly twilight.

[Percho]

I?m just going to make a general reply to a few. I?m not trying to trap anything here- just gauging people?s stance right here before kickoff. We can all agree that nobody really would be disappointed at 7-5. That?s a solid Year 2

Thing is- we really have a schedule this year that is built for 8-9 wins. Play really well against NC St, LSU, Kentucky, UPig, and Mississippi? We can bag those 5 wins. Then Throw in Vandy plus the other 3 OOC?s and you?re at 9 wins. We likely won?t see a schedule this friendly again for quite some time.

6-6 would be rather meh in my opinion. If we make the strides in the Air Raid along with a solid D then it?s an 8 win season. 6-6 would be an absolute lack of progress. We have 4 wins on the schedule that just requires the bus to get to the stadium.

And that is kind of what I am saying. At 6-6 I would be neither happy or unhappy, at 7-5 I would be happy anything above I think would be excellent for ML.

[Percho]

I believe our record will be directly proportional to number of turnovers.

If we do not turn the ball over we will look like a pretty good football team.

[Percho]

Should we not be comparing Leach to Jackie Sherrill instead of Dan Munster?

Munster was in his first head coaching job.

Sherrill coached at 4 programs. Leach is at his 3rd. Leach and Sherrill relatively close in age when they took the MSU job. Sherrill was a few years younger, yet had more head coaching experience. But similar too in their up and down seasons. Sherrill had 6 winning seasons and 6 losing seasons. Leach had up seasons and down seasons at WSU. This was the last coaching job Sherrill had..will likely be the last job Leach has. Templeton 1 hired Jackie in his twilight. Templeton 2 hired Leach in his twilight.

Sherrill never moved the family to Starkville.
Leach hasn?t moved the family to Starkville.

Edited to add:

Sherrill couldn?t remember his players names so he called them by their numbers.

Leach can?t Remember the players classification so he calls them a young team.��

I doubt many on the board could give their classification due to covid.

[Lord McBuckethead]

I have been a bulldog fan for 62 years and I am not sure God could win 10 games at MSU. 6-6 would be going on the right direction.

Would like to ask HoopsDawg who as a coach he believes could be a consistent big time winner at MSU that MSU could actually hire?

BTW I would like to win more than 6 and hope we can.
Should have offered Saban 30 million a year back in 2005.

[confucius say]

No he did not. Let's stop acting like he walked into some Ben Howland situation coming behind Rick Ray here.

Disagree.
He inherited probation.
He inherited a locker room with no discipline.
He inherited an out of shape football team due to subpar S&C. Bichey sucked.
He inherited a host of players that were kicked off the team months after taking over.
He inherited a team that had the police called to the team hotel the night before games bc the smell of weed was so strong in the hall.
Disaster of a culture.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Let's not act like the probation was crippling. He was short 2 scholarships. Looking at the last couple guys he took (non transfers) that may have been a blessing.
He inherited a team 1 year removed from having some of the best leaders MSU had seen (Simmons Abram, & Sweat)
He inherited a team 1 year removed from having 1 of the best S&C coaches in the country (Piroli)
Quite of few of the players kicked off he brought in himself. Also a lot are kicked off because Leach has the most outdated weed punishment in all of D1 football.
The culture wasn't great but you all acting like he took over the team from the longest yard.
These are just convenient excuses because a lot of our fans like Leach.

[Cowbell]

Let's not act like the probation was crippling. He was short 2 scholarships. Looking at the last couple guys he took (non transfers) that may have been a blessing.
He inherited a team 1 year removed from having some of the best leaders MSU had seen (Simmons Abram, & Sweat)
He inherited a team 1 year removed from having 1 of the best S&C coaches in the country (Piroli)
Quite of few of the players kicked off he brought in himself. Also a lot are kicked off because Leach has the most outdated weed punishment in all of D1 football.
The culture wasn't great but you all acting like he took over the team from the longest yard.
These are just convenient excuses because a lot of our fans like Leach.

Agreed. None of us on here were happy about only 8 wins in 2018...oh how expectations have been lowered.

[parabrave]

C'mon 34, if the offense is "vastly improved" we're winning more than 6 games.

If the offense looks pretty good in those 6 losses I'm good with it. If it's still the Key Stone Cops every other snap then I'll be looking to join the Dark Side.

Hell if we cut out INT rate to 20% instead of 40% we will win 6.

[Dawgfan77]

Let's not act like the probation was crippling. He was short 2 scholarships. Looking at the last couple guys he took (non transfers) that may have been a blessing.
He inherited a team 1 year removed from having some of the best leaders MSU had seen (Simmons Abram, & Sweat)
He inherited a team 1 year removed from having 1 of the best S&C coaches in the country (Piroli)
Quite of few of the players kicked off he brought in himself. Also a lot are kicked off because Leach has the most outdated weed punishment in all of D1 football.
The culture wasn't great but you all acting like he took over the team from the longest yard.
These are just convenient excuses because a lot of our fans like Leach.

Agree with a lot of this. My question is how do you feel about ML and how do some of your sources feel. Caveat to this is my sources are cautiously optimistic but do understand that their is some growing pains.

[FISHDAWG]

The point is obvious. So you are saying Dan inherited a mess but managed to win 9 games, making him, presumably, a great coach. So what in the world happened to his greatness 6 years later? Guess he created his own mess?

C,mon Dawg ... You know South Alabama is a Dynasty **

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Agree with a lot of this. My question is how do you feel about ML and how do some of your sources feel. Caveat to this is my sources are cautiously optimistic but do understand that their is some growing pains.

Leach wouldn't have been my choice but I have no issues with him. We should be a bowl team the problem is I don't know what level bowl. I think most are on the right page saying 7-5 or better & everyone is satisfied & excited about the future.

[PGHBulldogBG]

I feel like with Mullen it was a lot easier to make predictions because aside from a few outside games he mostly won the ones he was supposed to win and then lost to the teams with more talent and/or experience. I think Leach is another story because of his style of play. Ordinarily I would look at this schedule and say 7-5 based on team expectations with wins being UK Vandy and Ole Miss and losses being Bama aTm LSU @aub and @ark. I still think we can get there but I wouldn?t be surprised to see Leach do something like lose to Vandy and Memphis but beat LSU and aTm. It?s not going to be as consistent because leach is known for clunkers and upsets

[Maverick91]

No he did not. Let's stop acting like he walked into some Ben Howland situation coming behind Rick Ray here.

Do you know for a fact that he didn't? or are you just wanting to eliminate that very well talked about issue, so that if he does fail there is less and less he can stand on for a reason why things didn't turn over quickly?

[FISHDAWG]

Do you know for a fact that he didn't? or are you just wanting to eliminate that very well talked about issue, so that if he does fail there is less and less he can stand on for a reason why things didn't turn over quickly?

I see by your join date you haven't been around here for very long .... I'll let you in on something - IYOK is probably the most wired-in / connected, and close to the program poster on this board

[confucius say]

Let's not act like the probation was crippling. He was short 2 scholarships. Looking at the last couple guys he took (non transfers) that may have been a blessing.
He inherited a team 1 year removed from having some of the best leaders MSU had seen (Simmons Abram, & Sweat)
He inherited a team 1 year removed from having 1 of the best S&C coaches in the country (Piroli)
Quite of few of the players kicked off he brought in himself. Also a lot are kicked off because Leach has the most outdated weed punishment in all of D1 football.
The culture wasn't great but you all acting like he took over the team from the longest yard.
These are just convenient excuses because a lot of our fans like Leach.

Im not saying it was longest yard. But it was a bad culture.

I don't particularly like leach. Def would not have been my choice. But he inherited a rotten culture. I think 95% of fans would agree with that, and those inside the AD I know agree Bc they told me that when Joe was fired. Not Cohen, but associate AD. They went to Joe and tried to help him with it and he buried his head in the sand. Leach and his discipline was part of the allure bc it had gotten so bad under Joe.

[Coach34]

"We have 4 wins on the schedule that just requires the bus to get to the stadium."

Which 4? I have 3 of those. Tech, Vandy, and TN State. Both Memphis and NC State will be pretty decent this year. LSU is a different animal from last year, and I doubt they play man all game this year.

I like Memphis, Auburn, and Arkansas as our best 3 chances to get to 6. Ole Miss, Kentucky, and NC State are all about the same tier as each other, but a step above Memphis, Auburn, and Ark IMO. I can see anywhere from 2-4 to 4-2 out of those 6.

Tech
Vandy
Tenn State
Mempho (they are down from where they were 2-3 years ago. If we lose this one we got problems.)

I think we beat UPig and/or Kentucky before we beat Auburn. This 2021 schedule is ripe for an 8-9 win season. As I've said- nobody will really be disappointed in 7-5- but less than that will be discouraging because future schedules are much less likely to be this kind.

[Tbonewannabe]

No he did not. Let's stop acting like he walked into some Ben Howland situation coming behind Rick Ray here.

Leach inherited a problem culture and wasn't allowed the practice time to change from an offense that ran the ball 60-70% of the time to passing 70-80%. I will be disappointed if our offense still looks like a hot mess after having a spring and summer to get the offense in sync.

If we go 6-6 then I will be disappointed but would be ok if we actually are competitive unlike last year.

[Maverick91]

I see by your join date you haven't been around here for very long .... I'll let you in on something - IYOK is probably the most wired-in / connected, and close to the program poster on this board

Thanks for the info... I wasn't asking to be rude, I truly was just asking. Preciate it!

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Im not saying it was longest yard. But it was a bad culture.

I don't particularly like leach. Def would not have been my choice. But he inherited a rotten culture. I think 95% of fans would agree with that, and those inside the AD I know agree Bc they told me that when Joe was fired. Not Cohen, but associate AD. They went to Joe and tried to help him with it and he buried his head in the sand. Leach and his discipline was part of the allure bc it had gotten so bad under Joe.

The culture wasn't good I'm not ignoring it but in 1 year I don't think the culture had gotten to such a despair position. Moorhead 1st year the culture wasn't bad he just underachieved. Now the 2nd year the culture wasn't good. What I'm saying is the program didn't have years of bad culture to fix it was literally 1 year.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Leach inherited a problem culture and wasn't allowed the practice time to change from an offense that ran the ball 60-70% of the time to passing 70-80%. I will be disappointed if our offense still looks like a hot mess after having a spring and summer to get the offense in sync.

If we go 6-6 then I will be disappointed but would be ok if we actually are competitive unlike last year.

Now the lack of a spring & practice time argument is 100% valid & why I'm very interested in seeing what the offense looks like this year. I'm cautiously optimistic the offense will look good but I'm certainly not confident enough to wager any money on it. We will know after this season what we have with Leach. Again im cautiously optimistic we have the same Leach from his previous 2 stops & not someone getting 1 last big pay day before settling down in Key West.

[Dawgtini]

I believe our record will be directly proportional to number of turnovers.

If we do not turn the ball over we will look like a pretty good football team.

This. All those pick 6's last year killed a lot of games that still were fairly close.

[HancockCountyDog]

No he did not. Let's stop acting like he walked into some Ben Howland situation coming behind Rick Ray here.

I'm glad someone said it. Our defense was damn good last year, and that has nothing to do with Leach. He walked on campus and had a top 4-5 level defense in the SEC.

[HancockCountyDog]

Do you know for a fact that he didn't? or are you just wanting to eliminate that very well talked about issue, so that if he does fail there is less and less he can stand on for a reason why things didn't turn over quickly?

Look - you can't say he walked into a disaster when the defense was as good as it was last year, despite depth issues. Our front seven was extremely good last year. Our OL had the ability to be good, but I don't think we were put in the right position to thrive. We had enough WR's to beat LSU and we had a really good RB that left because of a host of reasons, but he was still here and very good.

Its one thing if he got here and the defense he had was the ole miss defense from last year. That is not what he got, he inherited a solid defense. The problem is that his offense shit the bed last year. That is just a fact. We all hope it doesn't happen again, but the reason we went 3-7 last year was because the offense was god awful. I'm not sure how much that was talent vs. scheme, because a lot of last year's OL sure as hell could run the hell out of the ball in 2019.

[Maverick91]

Look - you can't say he walked into a disaster when the defense was as good as it was last year, despite depth issues. Our front seven was extremely good last year. Our OL had the ability to be good, but I don't think we were put in the right position to thrive. We had enough WR's to beat LSU and we had a really good RB that left because of a host of reasons, but he was still here and very good.

Its one thing if he got here and the defense he had was the ole miss defense from last year. That is not what he got, he inherited a solid defense. The problem is that his offense shit the bed last year. That is just a fact. We all hope it doesn't happen again, but the reason we went 3-7 last year was because the offense was god awful. I'm not sure how much that was talent vs. scheme, because a lot of last year's OL sure as hell could run the hell out of the ball in 2019.

I don't disagree with you about him inheriting a great D. I agree 100%, but, don't equate inheriting a great D to him being able to have a better than subpar O. Because he inherited a pretty subpar O from Moorhead, yes we ran the ball, but outside of that it was pretty sad. He had a mountain to climb on the offensive side, with no spring and condensed fall. D is much easier to learn a lot of the time, especially a D that we run where the base D is basically "attack, run to the ball"

Very different arguments.

[Offshore Dawg]

I am with holding judgment until I see the product on the field this year. Remember folks, last year suspensions, new coaches, new system both offense and defense with little practice time. The man has a track record and I expect improvements, will they be enough I don't know yet. But at least this year I expect the team to know the systems a hell of a lot better than last year.

[preachermatt83]

Dan averaged 7-5. Leach will do the same.

This. Maybe the occasional 9 win season thrown iN. And that?s the best it will get as far as sustained success. We are lucky to have Leach.

[Coach34]

This. Maybe the occasional 9 win season thrown iN. And that?s the best it will get as far as sustained success. We are lucky to have Leach.

The 7-5 "average" is overblown. Mullen won 8 or more games in 5 of 9 seasons. Eliminating Year 1 due to the rebuild its 5 of 8 and thats really good.

Now I'm all for eliminating Y1 for Leach as well- it's only fair but expect to see improvement. JoVester does not get a Y1 pass as he took over a team ready to win 10 games. That was no rebuild.

[confucius say]

The culture wasn't good I'm not ignoring it but in 1 year I don't think the culture had gotten to such a despair position. Moorhead 1st year the culture wasn't bad he just underachieved. Now the 2nd year the culture wasn't good. What I'm saying is the program didn't have years of bad culture to fix it was literally 1 year.

I agree with that. But IMO it only takes 1 year to cause substantial issues. I do agree 2-3 years would be a worse problem.

[confucius say]

The 7-5 "average" is overblown. Mullen won 8 or more games in 5 of 9 seasons. Eliminating Year 1 due to the rebuild its 5 of 8 and thats really good.

Now I'm all for eliminating Y1 for Leach as well- it's only fair but expect to see improvement. JoVester does not get a Y1 pass as he took over a team ready to win 10 games. That was no rebuild.

Eliminate dans year 1 and he averaged 7.38 wins and 4.62 losses per year. I think leach will average about the same going forward.

[confucius say]

I'm glad someone said it. Our defense was damn good last year, and that has nothing to do with Leach. He walked on campus and had a top 4-5 level defense in the SEC.

We finished top 5 in defense last year? I didn't realize that.

[Coach34]

Eliminate dans year 1 and he averaged 7.38 wins and 4.62 losses per year. I think leach will average about the same going forward.

Wrong- years 2-9 Mullen went 64-39. Thats averaging 8 wins and 5 losses. Thats top 6 in the SEC during that time. Leach likely doesnt make that happen with the addition of OU and Texas to the SEC.

[confucius say]

Wrong- years 2-9 Mullen went 64-39. Thats averaging 8 wins and 5 losses. Thats top 6 in the SEC during that time. Leach likely doesnt make that happen with the addition of OU and Texas to the SEC.

2010. 8
2011. 6
2012. 8
2013. 6
2014. 10
2015. 8
2016. 5
2017. 8

That's 59.
59 divided by 8 = 7.38. Really 7.375, but I rounded up. He averaged 7.38-4.62 (everybody knows bowl games don't count, as they don't matter as evidenced by the fact that a lot of players don't even play in them), which is fantastic at state. Dan was great.

And I would argue Texas and ok will help us. We will stop playing Bama and auburn and Aggie every year rotate teams more often.

[Coach34]

2010. 8
2011. 6
2012. 8
2013. 6
2014. 10
2015. 8
2016. 5
2017. 8

That's 59.
59 divided by 8 = 7.38. Really 7.375, but I rounded up. He averaged 7.38-4.62 (everybody knows bowl games don't count, as they don't matter as evidenced by the fact that a lot of players don't even play in them), which is fantastic at state. Dan was great.

And I would argue Texas and ok will help us. We will stop playing Bama and auburn and Aggie every year rotate teams more often.

Why are you not counting the bowl games? They count as well. We play 13 games per season. Mullen won 64 games in years 2-9. 8 seasons- 8 wins per season. 8 x 8 = 64. Math is really easy.

Adding Texas and OU makes the conference tougher. 2021 will be the easiest schedule we have in the near future most likely.

[confucius say]

Why are you not counting the bowl games? They count as well. We play 13 games per season. Mullen won 64 games in years 2-9. 8 seasons- 8 wins per season. 8 x 8 = 64. Math is really easy.

Adding Texas and OU makes the conference tougher. 2021 will be the easiest schedule we have in the near future most likely.

I never count bowl games bc half the teams don't even take them seriously like they do regular season games. Coaching staffs are broken up, players are sitting out, players don't care, etc... But if you want to count bowl games for purposes of this comparison, that's fine I think leach will average 8 going forward as well.