How good is Sumlin?

[Madisonmd]

Just wondering what people think about Sumlin. Is he a product of JFF or is his system for real? I personally, am not sure about him.

[DawgInMemphis]

Just wondering what people think about Sumlin. Is he a product of JFF or is his system for real? I personally, am not sure about him.

He's legit. His Houston teams scored tons of points too.

[Madkinmecrazy]

Hard to say...

He had a great offense at Houston too - but he was also playing in the C-USA and had Case Keenum as his QB.

Still, I think something has to be said about the fact that he is great at developing QBs. Keenum was a young guy when Sumlin came in, and had a prolific college career (in the C-USA, for what it's worth).

You also have to remember that Manziel was buried at number 3 on the depth chart when Sumlin took over. Either he was there simply because of his age, of Sumlin saw something in him that no one else did.

[DownwardDawg]

I haven't made up my mind yet. His Houston team was great with a Heisman candidate at QB (Keenum). He has been great at aTm so far but he found lightning in a bottle with JFF. I like him a lot. He seems like a great guy and you just want him to succeed. However, I think the jury is still out as to how good he is.

[Goat Holder]

No coach is worth a shit without good players.

[Irondawg]

After rewatching the 1st half of the TAMU game a bit earlier today I think he's legit. JFF makes him look incredible (btw does anybody throw better rolling to his left than JFF - several unreal accurate throws from him like that against us).

But the play designs in the passing game are much, much better than ours and set up specific mismatches they can exploit. I just don't see us doing the same kind of things to take advantage of defensive mismatches the way they do.

Another thing is they use a lot of short, medium and deep patterns so as a secondary you can't sit in an area. TAMU DB's sat on teh short stuff b/c we mostly just run short to itermididate routes. That's one reason Holloway was so open on his deep ball - we rarely run deep so the DB didn't expect it.

[Barking 13]

It just seems to me that the sucessful QBs always just throw to a spot and the receiver goes and gets it.. It looks like we have to wait till the guy gets halfway open before we even think about throwing the ball.. (except the Lewis pass)

[DanDority]

No coach is worth a shit without good players.

I guess we will see next year or the following year.

[HoopsDawg]

If I could have any coach in the country, I would take Nick Saban. But Kevin Sumlin would be my 2nd choice.

[engie]

Do it with one QB -- you may be a flash in the pan. Do it with 2 QBs(that are extreme opposite ends of the spectrum stylistically) -- you are the real deal.

[EngineerDawg]

I don't think Sumlin is the best coach, but I think he is a great manager. I think he allows his coaches to do their jobs (i.e. Kliff Kingsbury) and isn't afraid to let them make some decisions. I see our HC as the opposite.

[msstate7]

Just wondering what people think about Sumlin. Is he a product of JFF or is his system for real? I personally, am not sure about him.

To me it's according to what program is considering him. To us, he would be a good coach. To aTm, I don't think he's the right guy. Sumlin's system should be used by a team with a talent deficit. Big time programs shouldn't try to win games with fast paced offensive football. They should win with ball control rushing offense and concentrate on defense IMO. If USC steaks sumlin, aTm should be happy and go after David shaw

[HancockCountyDog]

Do it with one QB -- you may be a flash in the pan. Do it with 2 QBs(that are extreme opposite ends of the spectrum stylistically) -- you are the real deal.

I really think these debates about obvious shit, like "Is Sumlin a good coach" or "Would you take two wins against AL and Ark or one win against the bears" are made to make our fanbase look stupid.

Sumlin is a top 10 coach in the country right now and Im being generous to about 7 other coaches in the country.

Lets put it like this - I can only think of 5 schools that wouldn't swap with A&M right now no questions asked : Baylor, Ohio State, Bama, FSU and Stanford. Everyone else would do it in a heartbeat.

Imagine Sumlin at LSU? Good lord, with that talent base. The problem is that he is doing what Saban did at LSU, waking up a sleeping giant - by recruiting lights out. They have a top 5-10 class lined up.

[dawgs]

To me it's according to what program is considering him. To us, he would be a good coach. To aTm, I don't think he's the right guy. Sumlin's system should be used by a team with a talent deficit. Big time programs shouldn't try to win games with fast paced offensive football. They should win with ball control rushing offense and concentrate on defense IMO. If USC steaks sumlin, aTm should be happy and go after David shaw

that's just dumb. back in the 60s and 70s, people probably said that real programs with plenty of talent should win by running the wishbone/triple option offense. there is not set way to win, and if sumlin can build the talent of regular top 10 recruiting classes (definitely a possibility) with the schematic advantage of a uptempo high flying offense, then why not do it? texas won a national title with VY running a variation of the uptempo spread option offense. florida won 2 national titles running a variation of the uptempo spread option offense. both still had great Ds that could take over a game. auburn won a title running a variation of the uptempo spread option offense. their D wasn't on texas's or florida's level, but the front 7 was good enough to control the run. all 3 of those schools don't have to worry about talent deficiencies, they used superior talent to run a superior scheme to create the ultimate mismatches and bring home trophies. what happened to texas, florida, and auburn when they tried to go away from the uptempo spread option offense to a traditional power running pro-style offense? i found it hilarious listening to florida and auburn fans that almost felt ashamed they went away from power running offense to win titles, like the fact they had to resort to the type of offenses run by west virginia and oregon and oklahoma st was hurting their pride, but the auburn fans came around real quick when they saw the pro-style in action in 2012. and florida fans are coming around watching muschamp's pro-style power running offense the last 3 years.

as for shaw over sumlin, shaw is a stanford alum and former assistant. he knows stanford and he's not going anywhere except maybe the NFL. sumlin is a former a&m assistant (and oklahoma assistant), HC at houston, and therefore has lots of deep ties to texas HSs. i don't think he's going anywhere except maybe the NFL. a&m would also absolutely match anything usc tried to offer. if you think otherwise you are a moron. usc has a bunch of socal fans who can take or leave usc football depending on how things are going. a&m has true diehard fans that aren't going to let their young stud HC walk away for more money. not as they are renovating and expanding the stadium to seat 110K.

[dawgs]

No coach is worth a shit without good players.

yep, at some point player evaluation/recruiting/development/play calling counts for something. but i guess guys like sumlin just keep getting lucky to land these relatively unsung HS QBs that go on to turn into college studs.

[msstate7]

that's just dumb. back in the 60s and 70s, people probably said that real programs with plenty of talent should win by running the wishbone/triple option offense. there is not set way to win, and if sumlin can build the talent of regular top 10 recruiting classes (definitely a possibility) with the schematic advantage of a uptempo high flying offense, then why not do it? texas won a national title with VY running a variation of the uptempo spread option offense. florida won 2 national titles running a variation of the uptempo spread option offense. both still had great Ds that could take over a game. auburn won a title running a variation of the uptempo spread option offense. their D wasn't on texas's or florida's level, but the front 7 was good enough to control the run. all 3 of those schools don't have to worry about talent deficiencies, they used superior talent to run a superior scheme to create the ultimate mismatches and bring home trophies. what happened to texas, florida, and auburn when they tried to go away from the uptempo spread option offense to a traditional power running pro-style offense? i found it hilarious listening to florida and auburn fans that almost felt ashamed they went away from power running offense to win titles, like the fact they had to resort to the type of offenses run by west virginia and oregon and oklahoma st was hurting their pride, but the auburn fans came around real quick when they saw the pro-style in action in 2012. and florida fans are coming around watching muschamp's pro-style power running offense the last 3 years.

as for shaw over sumlin, shaw is a stanford alum and former assistant. he knows stanford and he's not going anywhere except maybe the NFL. sumlin is a former a&m assistant (and oklahoma assistant), HC at houston, and therefore has lots of deep ties to texas HSs. i don't think he's going anywhere except maybe the NFL. a&m would also absolutely match anything usc tried to offer. if you think otherwise you are a moron. usc has a bunch of socal fans who can take or leave usc football depending on how things are going. a&m has true diehard fans that aren't going to let their young stud HC walk away for more money. not as they are renovating and expanding the stadium to seat 110K.

How many titles has Oregon won with offensive football? And they're probably the best offensive football team in the country and always a bridesmaid

[smootness]

Lets put it like this - I can only think of 5 schools that wouldn't swap with A&M right now no questions asked : Baylor, Ohio State, Bama, FSU and Stanford. Everyone else would do it in a heartbeat.

Oregon? South Carolina?

And I know you think the rest of the country should take Sumlin without a second thought, but I don't think that's true. Clemson, UCLA, Oklahoma State, Auburn, Miami, Louisville...I think all of those schools would at least think long and hard about it first, and schools like UGA, Missouri, LSU, Oklahoma, VT, Notre Dame, and Michigan wouldn't do it immediately.

[engie]

His ENTIRE career in total offense:

2008 - #2
2009 - #1
2010 - #11
2011 - #1
2012 - #3
2013 - #3

That's right -- when Case Keenum and their #2 QB both went down for the year in the 3rd game and he was left playing his third string, totally unprepared QB -- he dropped all the way to #11 in the country in total offense. That stat is EYE POPPING.

I see his offense as a great equalizer against a team like Bama. They've basically proven it twice too. God forbid they get it going defensively -- which is going to happen sooner rather than later...

[msstate7]

His ENTIRE career in total offense:

2008 - #2
2009 - #1
2010 - #11
2011 - #1
2012 - #3
2013 - #3

That's right -- when Case Keenum and their #2 QB both went down for the year in the 3rd game and he was left playing his third string, totally unprepared QB -- he dropped all the way to #11 in the country in total offense. That stat is EYE POPPING.

I see his offense as a great equalizer against a team like Bama. They've basically proven it twice too. God forbid they get it going defensively -- which is going to happen sooner rather than later...

Unfortunately it'll be without Manziel. Manziel was the great equalizer not sumlin

[dawgs]

Unfortunately it'll be without Manziel. Manziel was the great equalizer not sumlin

manziel has been playing under sumlin since 2008?

look, i know it's c-usa, but sumlin also had a roster of c-usa talent. not like he was out there with big 12 talent playing c-usa talent.

[dawgs]

How many titles has Oregon won with offensive football? And they're probably the best offensive football team in the country and always a bridesmaid

well i can play that game with a lot of big name football factories that run pro-style power running offenses that haven't won titles in a long time too. oregon has only been in the national title discussion (minus joey harrington's senior season) since 2007. that's a pretty short window compared to the decades many programs have been trying to win another title. pro-style power running offenses at all-time great football schools that haven't won national titles since 2007: ND, UGA, USC, texas, oklahoma, michigan, ohio st, florida st, miami, tennessee, clemson, etc etc etc. some of those programs have flirted with various offenses at times - some have even run the uptempo stuff previous seasons or run it now-, so we can split hairs, but you get the point. or you can be willfully ignorant to be a troll. your choice. isolating a single school to illustrate why uptempo offenses can't win a national title is a ****ing dumb argument to even attempt to make (regardless of the counter arguments that at least 3 national champs in the last decade have run uptempo offenses).

as for oregon-stanford this year, i think it's readily apparent mariota's MCL sprain had a huge effect on the outcome of that game. he was injured before the game, but no one knew it. i wondered why he seemed skittish in the pocket when it appeared he had running lanes. now we know. it sucks, but it also partially explains oregon's offensive performance in that game.

[msstate7]

manziel has been playing under sumlin since 2008?

look, i know it's c-usa, but sumlin also had a roster of c-usa talent. not like he was out there with big 12 talent playing c-usa talent.

Not against bama he hasn't

[dawgs]

Not against bama he hasn't

you're implying that it's manziel making sumlin look good though. when the reality is that sumlin has been a damn good coach and a great offensive mind for years long before manziel came along. (not to mention manziel wasn't a can't miss prospect who everyone exepcted big things from)

[msstate7]

you're implying that it's manziel making sumlin look good though. when the reality is that sumlin has been a damn good coach and a great offensive mind for years long before manziel came along. (not to mention manziel wasn't a can't miss prospect who everyone exepcted big things from)

I'm not saying sumlin isn't a great offensive coach. He is. Manziel was the equalizer against bama though, not sumlin's offense.