Any attendance restrictions being discussed for football?

[msstate7]

Delta cranking up in the state and all the SE.

[Hambone]

Not football related but we were informed this morning that while in the building, all UPS employees must wear a mask regardless of vaccination status.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I could see masks being required to pass through the gates and while walking around the concourse. But I don't think any attendance restrictions will be done. But that's just my guess. I think we'll just have to see what the numbers look like in two weeks. I mean if they're just as bad, or worse it could happen.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Virus will be with us from now on. Just have to learn to live with it.

[confucius say]

I doubt it.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Virus will be with us from now on. Just have to learn to live with it.

Yep. Everyone needs to get the vaccine. Wash your hands. Wear mask when in public. Socially distance when possible. Stay at home when you are feeling bad. Wash your hands.
When you cut through all the political nonsense, there are four small things that we has fellow humans in a society can control.
1. Socially Distance
2. Get the vaccine and any boosters available.
3. Wash your hands.
4. Wear a mask when you are indoors.

Period. Those are it. That is what we can do to protect ourselves, our loved ones, and other people. Simple. So, so simple.

[confucius say]

Yep. Everyone needs to get the vaccine. Wash your hands. Wear mask when in public. Socially distance when possible. Stay at home when you are feeling bad. Wash your hands.
When you cut through all the political nonsense, there are four small things that we has fellow humans in a society can control.
1. Socially Distance
2. Get the vaccine and any boosters available.
3. Wash your hands.
4. Wear a mask when you are indoors.

Period. Those are it. That is what we can do to protect ourselves, our loved ones, and other people. Simple. So, so simple.

And get a N95 mask. Even Biden's covid czar today said these masks that everybody is wearing aren't doing anything. He said we need N95

[BeardoMSU]

Delta cranking up in the state and all the SE.

Yep.

Less than 40% is pitiful.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7zdE2QWEAghfX5?format=png&name=900x900

[msstate7]

Yep.

Less than 40% is pitiful.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7zdE2QWEAghfX5?format=png&name=900x900

I agree, but it did hit in this area hard this time of year last year too. Florida is at their all time peak today in hospitalizations at ~50% vaccination rate. Their previous peak in hospitalizations was basically 1 year ago, July 23rd, 2020.

Hell, just checked NY year to day 7-day avg case, and this was their down time last year...

Aug 1st, 2020: 771
Aug 1st, 2021: 2472
Up 220.6%, 57% vaccination rate

I'm vaccinated FWIW

ETA... in heavily vaccinated Israel, cases year to date are up 26.8%

Aug 1, 2020: 1649
Aug 1, 2021: 2089

Delta is not playing...

[NWADAWG]

Yep. Everyone needs to get the vaccine. Wash your hands. Wear mask when in public. Socially distance when possible. Stay at home when you are feeling bad. Wash your hands.
When you cut through all the political nonsense, there are four small things that we has fellow humans in a society can control.
1. Socially Distance
2. Get the vaccine and any boosters available.
3. Wash your hands.
4. Wear a mask when you are indoors.

Period. Those are it. That is what we can do to protect ourselves, our loved ones, and other people. Simple. So, so simple.

Serious Question - not trying to start a war.

First - #1 and #3 are true for any airborne contagion. #4 is only helpful with the right mask which virtually no one wears.

Note: I am vaxxed as it was a requirement to keep my job.

Question - Many of the reports I've seen lately indicate that there is little to no difference in likelihood of catching and/or spreading covid for vaxxed vs. unvaxxed. The data does seem to show that the severity of catching covid is much less for the vaxxed. So, I can see where vaxxed vs un-vaxxed could impact hospitalization rates and deaths. But, (question time) does it really impact the actual spread?

People are crying for everyone to get vaxxed so others don't get it. That seems to be the wrong motivational tool. Get vaxxed to stay out of the hospital-check, get vaxxed so it doesn't kill you - check, get vaxxed to stop the spread - not so much.

[confucius say]

Yep.

Less than 40% is pitiful.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7zdE2QWEAghfX5?format=png&name=900x900

50% of persons over 18 have at least one dose.
That's better than I would have thought honestly, and why our death numbers should stay down relative to January.

[R2Dawg]

Virus will be with us from now on. Just have to learn to live with it.

Maybe but I don't think we know yet. It was manmade so lasting recycle still yet to be seen.

Delta started in India with over a billion people and it went thru India in a month or two and now herd immunity and everything kinda back semi normal there. We will spike but could return back down. Herd immunity is nearing our nation.

[confucius say]

Maybe but I don't think we know yet. It was manmade so lasting recycle still yet to be seen.

Delta started in India with over a billion people and it went thru India in a month or two and now herd immunity and everything kinda back semi normal there. We will spike but could return back down. Herd immunity is nearing our nation.

We thinking we peak around Labor Day? Little before?

[R2Dawg]

Serious Question - not trying to start a war.

First - #1 and #3 are true for any airborne contagion. #4 is only helpful with the right mask which virtually no one wears.

Note: I am vaxxed as it was a requirement to keep my job.

Question - Many of the reports I've seen lately indicate that there is little to no difference in likelihood of catching and/or spreading covid for vaxxed vs. unvaxxed. The data does seem to show that the severity of catching covid is much less for the vaxxed. So, I can see where vaxxed vs un-vaxxed could impact hospitalization rates and deaths. But, (question time) does it really impact the actual spread?

People are crying for everyone to get vaxxed so others don't get it. That seems to be the wrong motivational tool. Get vaxxed to stay out of the hospital-check, get vaxxed so it doesn't kill you - check, get vaxxed to stop the spread - not so much.

Problem is there are 100million immune people who had Covid that CDC does not recognize yet every credible medical institution does. The latest CDC study showed 74% of people got Covid that had Vax. My doctor told me that there were only a few hundred cases nationwide of anyone actually having Covid twice. Way better than vax. Again, the shot is not a vax either, it says so on the paperwork.

God's immune system is always better than a manmade one. I'm not anti vax, pro for those at high risk but need to actually stick to the science.

[starkvegasdawg]

And get a N95 mask. Even Biden's covid czar today said these masks that everybody is wearing aren't doing anything. He said we need N95

And my place of employment has banned n95 masks. Won't let us use them. I will assume that will still be the case if/when we go back to a mask mandate.

[starkvegasdawg]

We thinking we peak around Labor Day? Little before?

The first two spikes lasted around 2 months. We're right at a month into this one. If history is true to course we should be seeing numbers go back down around Labor Day.

[Jack Lambert]

Virus will be with us from now on. Just have to learn to live with it.

Eventually it will mutate it self to a point it is nothing.

[Dawg2003]

Problem is there are 100million immune people who had Covid that CDC does not recognize yet every credible medical institution does. The latest CDC study showed 74% of people got Covid that had Vax. My doctor told me that there were only a few hundred cases nationwide of anyone actually having Covid twice. Way better than vax. Again, the shot is not a vax either, it says so on the paperwork.

God's immune system is always better than a manmade one. I'm not anti vax, pro for those at high risk but need to actually stick to the science.

Vaccines are an extra layer of protection. The virus is still very much there, and no vaccine is 100% effective. Vaccines work by telling your immune system to produce antibodies. Thus, when you are infected with a disease, you have immediate antibodies to the disease. Without a vaccine, your natural immune system takes about 1-3 weeks to develop antibodies to a disease. A lot of havoc can be wrought while your body is spending time creating antibodies.

It's not really surprising that we are seeing breakthrough cases of Covid in those vaccinated because there is high community spread in many places. We we all eventually be exposed to/get Covid in the next few years. The question is: do you want to get Covid with an extra layer of protection via vaccination or roll the dice without it?

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Eventually it will mutate it self to a point it is nothing.
Yes if it was a naturally occurring virus. This is a man made virus created in a lab.

[Dolphus Raymond]

Created in a lab? Okay.

[Jarius]

I am vaccinated and I stay at home if I feel sick and I wash my hands. I’m not going to social distance or wear a mask anywhere again for COVID. This virus is here to stay. Forever. I’m not wearing a mask for the entirety of my life because a bunch of virtue signaling idiots tell me to do it. I did what I was supposed to do. If people that do not want to get vaccinated keep dying I really do not care. It is not on me to make them do what they should do. Stop trying to protect people who do not want protection.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

I am vaccinated and I stay at home if I feel sick and I wash my hands. I’m not going to social distance or wear a mask anywhere again for COVID. This virus is here to stay. Forever. I’m not wearing a mask for the entirety of my life because a bunch of virtue signaling idiots tell me to do it. I did what I was supposed to do. If people that do not want to get vaccinated keep dying I really do not care. It is not on me to make them do what they should do. Stop trying to protect people who do not want protection.
^^^^^This^^^^

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

The case numbers themselves aren't a big deal, the important data is that almost nobody that's vaccinated is dying. We need everyone vaccinated, then who cares? But I've lost all patience for the anti-vaxers. It's been 8 months of vaccines rolling out and we have no side effects, so there's not even a feeble "we don't know what the long term consequences are" excuse.

Delta originated in India. Covid is here to stay, it will keep mutating, and those mutations will make their way here. We can't keep shutting down and masking over them; tell people to get vaccinated or risk death, and let the sane people get back to normal. I may get sick a week, but I won't die

[confucius say]

The case numbers themselves aren't a big deal, the important data is that almost nobody that's vaccinated is dying. We need everyone vaccinated, then who cares? But I've lost all patience for the anti-vaxers. It's been 8 months of vaccines rolling out and we have no side effects, so there's not even a feeble "we don't know what the long term consequences are" excuse.

Delta originated in India. Covid is here to stay, it will keep mutating, and those mutations will make their way here. We can't keep shutting down and masking over them; tell people to get vaccinated or risk death, and let the sane people get back to normal. I may get sick a week, but I won't die

Agree. And I'll add those that already covid too. Vaccine and natural immunity are doing great!

[Quaoarsking]

Yes if it was a naturally occurring virus. This is a man made virus created in a lab.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/lp21798pAF2HtznetS/giphy.webp?cid=6c09b9526eb2c965e5d3f810a2a3fe22a91 c4183bca4ac4c&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g

[HoopsDawg]

Vaccines are an extra layer of protection. The virus is still very much there, and no vaccine is 100% effective. Vaccines work by telling your immune system to produce antibodies. Thus, when you are infected with a disease, you have immediate antibodies to the disease. Without a vaccine, your natural immune system takes about 1-3 weeks to develop antibodies to a disease. A lot of havoc can be wrought while your body is spending time creating antibodies.

It's not really surprising that we are seeing breakthrough cases of Covid in those vaccinated because there is high community spread in many places. We we all eventually be exposed to/get Covid in the next few years. The question is: do you want to get Covid with an extra layer of protection via vaccination or roll the dice without it?

if you had a bad case of covid but recovered, would you get the vaccine?

[msstate7]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/lp21798pAF2HtznetS/giphy.webp?cid=6c09b9526eb2c965e5d3f810a2a3fe22a91 c4183bca4ac4c&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g

Remember you arguing with me that vaccinated rarely spread covid?

[msstate7]

if you had a bad case of covid but recovered, would you get the vaccine?

According to when I had it

[Dawg2003]

I am vaccinated and I stay at home if I feel sick and I wash my hands. I?m not going to social distance or wear a mask anywhere again for COVID. This virus is here to stay. Forever. I?m not wearing a mask for the entirety of my life because a bunch of virtue signaling idiots tell me to do it. I did what I was supposed to do. If people that do not want to get vaccinated keep dying I really do not care. It is not on me to make them do what they should do. Stop trying to protect people who do not want protection.

This is where I'm at. I'm vaccinated, so, even if I get it, it should be asymptotic/mild. If people want to remain unvaxxed and get Covid, that's their decision. I don't wish death/serious illness on anyone, but, if you play with fire long enough, you have to take on the consequences.

[Quaoarsking]

Remember you arguing with me that vaccinated rarely spread covid?

Yes? I was right then and still am. I think you have known for a very long time that rare doesn't mean never, right?

[HoopsDawg]

According to when I had it

Dec

[msstate7]

Yes? I was right then and still am. I think you have known for a very long time that rare doesn't mean never, right?

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1421156015563759621?s=21

[msstate7]

Dec

If you're mid-30s or so, I'd prob go ahead and get it

[Lord McBuckethead]

And get a N95 mask. Even Biden's covid czar today said these masks that everybody is wearing aren't doing anything. He said we need N95

N95 are definitely better. Always has been. I would imagine any mask that is routinely cleaned and swapped out is better than no mask. Not for stopping inhaling but stopping your vapor from spreading.

[Quaoarsking]

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1421156015563759621?s=21

That's 1 interesting data point, but we have a whole world of evidence showing that vaccination makes people a whole lot less likely to get the disease and spread it.

In fact, since Provincetown is one of the most liberal, and vaccinated places in America, Bayes Theorem predicts this result because there are so few unvaccinated people there to begin with.

[Lord McBuckethead]

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1421156015563759621?s=21

That is one place. For all you know there was a giant orgy going on. Give me statistics from the 10,000 hospitalized yesterday in Florida and we will talk.

[msstate7]

That is one place. For all you know there was a giant orgy going on. Give me statistics from the 10,000 hospitalized yesterday in Florida and we will talk.

I absolutely believe that the vaccine reduces hospitalizations. I do not agree that it prevents spread. Why are Israel's cases steadily going up (highest 7-day avg since March) with their outstanding vaccination rate?

[confucius say]

The cdc said yesterday that vaccinated, while less likely to contract covid, are just as likely to spread covid as unvaccinated if they do contract it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/leaked-cdc-presentation-reassuring-vaccinated-people-2021-7%3famp

[HoopsDawg]

I absolutely believe that the vaccine reduces hospitalizations. I do not agree that it prevents spread. Why are Israel's cases steadily going up (highest 7-day avg since March) with their outstanding vaccination rate?

b/c the delta variant is nearly 3x more contagious than the covid-19 strain of last summer.

[BeardoMSU]

For all you know there was a giant orgy going on.

You've been to P-Town, I take it.**

[Quaoarsking]

I absolutely believe that the vaccine reduces hospitalizations. I do not agree that it prevents spread. Why are Israel's cases steadily going up (highest 7-day avg since March) with their outstanding vaccination rate?

Well the entirety of the numbers (not cherry-picked outliers from areas with unusually high vaccination rates) suggest otherwise.

But the wonderful thing about science it is that it doesn't matter what you or I or anyone else personally believes - the truth is the truth regardless and eventually presents itself.

[Quaoarsking]

Also for the record Israel's fully vaccinated rate is 59%, which is better than our 49%, but not incredibly different. I think there's little doubt that their 41% are driving their spread a whole lot more than their 59% are.

[msstate7]

Well the entirety of the numbers (not cherry-picked outliers from areas with unusually high vaccination rates) suggest otherwise.

But the wonderful thing about science it is that it doesn't matter what you or I or anyone else personally believes - the truth is the truth regardless and eventually presents itself.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/leaked-cdc-presentation-reassuring-vaccinated-people-2021-7%3famp

First line...

"First, the bad news: People who are fully vaccinated can spread the Delta variant just as easily as those who are unvaccinated, according to an internal presentation from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention obtained by The Washington Post...."
...

Israel has reached the herd immunity threshold for vaccination, and yet, cases are steadily on the rise

[Quaoarsking]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/leaked-cdc-presentation-reassuring-vaccinated-people-2021-7%3famp

First line...

"First, the bad news: People who are fully vaccinated can spread the Delta variant just as easily as those who are unvaccinated, according to an internal presentation from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention obtained by The Washington Post...."
...

Israel has reached the herd immunity threshold for vaccination, and yet, cases are steadily on the rise

According to a leaked internal document rather than an official announcement? Ok, if that goes anywhere, fine, but even that is only referring to Delta, not COVID as a whole.

And no, 59% has never been established as "herd immunity." There are several states above that threshold and none of them have been declared as such.

[msstate7]

According to a leaked internal document rather than an official announcement? Ok, if that goes anywhere, fine, but even that is only referring to Delta, not COVID as a whole.

And no, 59% has never been established as "herd immunity"

June 1st, they had 80% of adults vaccinated
https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-vaccinated-most-adults-covid-herd-immunity-2021-6
...

So are you saying that it's the unvaccinated spreading and getting it? Weird that they want booster shots

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/29/delta-variant-israel-to-give-pfizer-covid-booster-shots-to-elderly-.html

[BuckyIsAB****]

Yep. Everyone needs to get the vaccine. Wash your hands. Wear mask when in public. Socially distance when possible. Stay at home when you are feeling bad. Wash your hands.
When you cut through all the political nonsense, there are four small things that we has fellow humans in a society can control.
1. Socially Distance
2. Get the vaccine and any boosters available.
3. Wash your hands.
4. Wear a mask when you are indoors.

Period. Those are it. That is what we can do to protect ourselves, our loved ones, and other people. Simple. So, so simple.

A lot of those are common sense but I am out on the masks and was out as soon as they forced it on people.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I am vaccinated and I stay at home if I feel sick and I wash my hands. I’m not going to social distance or wear a mask anywhere again for COVID. This virus is here to stay. Forever. I’m not wearing a mask for the entirety of my life because a bunch of virtue signaling idiots tell me to do it. I did what I was supposed to do. If people that do not want to get vaccinated keep dying I really do not care. It is not on me to make them do what they should do. Stop trying to protect people who do not want protection.

Exactly. The US used to be a place where you could do what you wanted and you didnt have to cry about what someone else wanted to do

[confucius say]

According to a leaked internal document rather than an official announcement? Ok, if that goes anywhere, fine, but even that is only referring to Delta, not COVID as a whole.

And no, 59% has never been established as "herd immunity." There are several states above that threshold and none of them have been declared as such.

The cdc confirmed today the leaked document is valid. It was part of a presentation the cdc is getting ready to make. Vaccinated are not getting it as much as unvaccinated, and vaccinated are not getting near as sick, but when they do get it they are spreading it at the same rate as unvaccinated.

[Todd4State]

Some perspective from the "front lines" in the COVID unit.

And also my two cents.

I got called to cover the COVID unit where I work this weekend. I saw 12 patients personally over two days. Our COVID units across the board had a total of 110 as of Sunday so yes, small sample size here.

Most of the patients I saw were unvaccinated. The grand totals were of the 12- 4 were vaccinated, 1 had received the first dose, and then the other 7 had not received a dose at all.

What was interesting and something that never gets talked about was several of my patients did not initially come to hospital because of COVID symptoms. Like one of my patients was in a car wreck, one hit her head on concrete and suffered a spinal cord injury, one had a stroke, one had kidney failure...but since the hospital tested them they showed up as having COVID. It made me wonder how often this is happening across the country because it's definitely happening where I work.

Another thing I found interesting was that the patients I saw across the board they all- again small sample size- seemed to be tolerating COVID better than my patients from other spikes. They were able to move around better in general and were able to recover more quickly. As an aside for some more data- on our therapy lists we only had 25 consults out of the 110 meaning that most patients didn't need to have therapy at all. Or they weren't stable enough. I can't really tell how much exactly without committing HIPPA violations and I have to pay for National Championship gear, so sorry! My guess is based on what I have seen is most patients are doing pretty well though.

So my two cents is this:

1. I don't think COVID will ever go away. I think it's going to be like the flu. There will be different strains every year and some will be worse than others. The vaccine obviously will not prevent you from getting it. That was a political promise gone bad. But the vaccine will help you from getting the worst possible case of it if you do get it and help your body to fight it. That means that we'll have to get COVID shots every year from now on.

2. Dr. Fauci is full of complete shit and no one should be listening to him or any other politician on this matter. Think about it- would you take advice from a politician on money matters, sports, or cooking? So why should you listen to one on medical matters? Very few have a medical background and are talking out of their ass half of the time. That goes for both parties. Instead what I would as a health care professional is encourage you to do your own research and make sure that it comes from an unbiased source. And then make your own informed decision based on that. And if you ask my opinion on the matter I would suggest you get the vaccine if medically possible. But if you choose not to for whatever reason I respect that as well. I'm not going to give you some guilt trip about how "I can't treat my patients that need me because you won't get the vaccine" BS. Just like I wouldn't tell that to one of my patients who got lung cancer who smoked most of their life or someone who got in a car wreck that was driving too fast and wasn't wearing a seat belt. Maybe at some point people will stop trying to babysit every one and actually live our lives and treat each other with respect.

[R2Dawg]

The cdc confirmed today the leaked document is valid. It was part of a presentation the cdc is getting ready to make. Vaccinated are not getting it as much as unvaccinated, and vaccinated are not getting near as sick, but when they do get it they are spreading it at the same rate as unvaccinated.

Vaccinated are spreading it faster because they think they are bullet proof which they are not. Of the unvaccinated, 100 million have natural immunity so the lie being spread about the pandemic being among the unvaxed is untrue.

[Schultzy]

“Gain-of-function” is the euphemism for biological research aimed at increasing the virulence and lethality of pathogens and viruses. GoF research is government funded; its focus is on enhancing the pathogens’ ability to infect different species and to increase their deadly impact as airborne pathogens and viruses.

[Bothrops]

Mississippi is molasses

[shoeless joe]

I’ll post this again….cliff notes version. My son, 3, tested positive last week…he previously tested positive last December when my whole family had it. The doctor completely disregarded his recent positive test. Doc said no one in the county had contracted it and tested positive a second time….yes there’s some wiggle room in what that actually means. He didn’t recommend quarantine or anything. So out of an abundance of caution we also had the more in depth multi day test done…PCR I believe, and sure enough it came back negative.

So all that to say, IF I had not already gotten it I would most likely be vaxxed. But based on this doctors reaction I feel good in my decision to not yet have taken it. I really don’t understand how someone can be so heavily pro vaccine without also recognizing the EXACT same effects of actually have the disease.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Fauchi must be good at his job. He's had the support of every administration since Reagan.

[cheewgumm]

Here I how I know that COVId is no big deal.

Just watch the politicians - when they get caught out eating, going to concerts, Fauci when camera is off with no mask.

They are just selling all of you lies.

And many of you are falling for it

Sad, really. Most of America just isn?t smart enough for this stuff.

[Schultzy]

vaccines. Every single COVID vaccine now on the market was either developed or tested using cells from aborted babies. Some have claimed these cell lines might have derived from a miscarriage. This defies basic biology. Cells die quickly. As Jose Trasancos explained to us, “Establishing a living cell line from dead tissue is not possible.” These cell lines were not only derived from abortion. The researchers almost surely worked closely with the abortionist to preserve the tissue.

[Hot Rock]

I’ll post this again….cliff notes version. My son, 3, tested positive last week…he previously tested positive last December when my whole family had it. The doctor completely disregarded his recent positive test. Doc said no one in the county had contracted it and tested positive a second time….yes there’s some wiggle room in what that actually means. He didn’t recommend quarantine or anything. So out of an abundance of caution we also had the more in depth multi day test done…PCR I believe, and sure enough it came back negative.

So all that to say, IF I had not already gotten it I would most likely be vaxxed. But based on this doctors reaction I feel good in my decision to not yet have taken it. I really don’t understand how someone can be so heavily pro vaccine without also recognizing the EXACT same effects of actually have the disease.

It’s simple to me, having it may very well give you immunity but we don’t know. So why not go for extra protection, especially vs the other variants. Any other conclusion leads me to think you are looking for a reason not to get vaccinated.

[Todd4State]

Fauchi must be good at his job. He's had the support of every administration since Reagan.

He has political connections. That's it. No different than any other "good ol boy" really.

[Quaoarsking]

vaccines. Every single COVID vaccine now on the market was either developed or tested using cells from aborted babies. Some have claimed these cell lines might have derived from a miscarriage. This defies basic biology. Cells die quickly. As Jose Trasancos explained to us, “Establishing a living cell line from dead tissue is not possible.” These cell lines were not only derived from abortion. The researchers almost surely worked closely with the abortionist to preserve the tissue.

That entire post is totally false. You really shouldn't believe everything you read on Facebook [or wherever you heard that]. Given the strength of the anti-abortion movement in the country, don't you think this would be blasted everywhere if it were true?

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-the-covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells

https://immunizebc.ca/ask-us/questions/covid-19/do-any-vaccines-use-aborted-fetuses-ingredient

Etc. - you can find many more debunkings on Google if those aren't enough

[DownwardDawg]

My Covid post.
My extremely fit, healthy as a horse unvaccinated 21 year old son caught Covid at some family friends house. My wife and I were there also. We have both been vaccinated. My son had to be treated by a doctor and still ended up in the ER several days later. It was the sickest he has ever been. Two of the other people in the house ended up in the hospital. My wife and I were on the road for hours with my son in a car, staying in hotel rooms and living in a camper. We never got a sniffle.
My doctor says my son is good for a few months but then should get a vaccine after that time frame.
MD Anderson performed their own study and several weeks after the vaccination was out, they recommended it to their cancer patients. (That's what tipped the scale for my wife).
No idea what my point is. I guess just to say that I believe the Pfizer vaccine works.

[Schultzy]

That entire post is totally false. You really shouldn't believe everything you read on Facebook [or wherever you heard that]. Given the strength of the anti-abortion movement in the country, don't you think this would be blasted everywhere if it were true?

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-the-covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells

https://immunizebc.ca/ask-us/questions/covid-19/do-any-vaccines-use-aborted-fetuses-ingredient

Etc. - you can find many more debunkings on Google if those aren't enough

Anyone who is interested in this aspect of the vaccine debate should read the links provided by Quaoarskink as I did and decide for themselves if “debunk” is the correct takeaway. These links actually confirm use of fetal tissue from elective abortions for use in the development of the vaccines but do deny actual tissue existing in the vaccines being administered today.

The ethical aspect is not then resolved by the links provided.

Here is a short primer on fetal cell lines and vaccines.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/what-you-need-to-know-about-fetal-cell-lines-and-vaccines?utm_source=lifefacts

[SteelCurtain74]

Not to get in the weeds with the back and forth on vaccines and Covid-19 but one source that I have found very informative is The Darkhorse Podcast hosted by Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying. Both are PhD's in biology and present straight forward information leaving the politics out of it. You can find it on YouTube however because YouTube likes to play God, they also have an Odysee channel.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

I’ll post this again….cliff notes version. My son, 3, tested positive last week…he previously tested positive last December when my whole family had it. The doctor completely disregarded his recent positive test. Doc said no one in the county had contracted it and tested positive a second time….yes there’s some wiggle room in what that actually means. He didn’t recommend quarantine or anything. So out of an abundance of caution we also had the more in depth multi day test done…PCR I believe, and sure enough it came back negative.

So all that to say, IF I had not already gotten it I would most likely be vaxxed. But based on this doctors reaction I feel good in my decision to not yet have taken it. I really don’t understand how someone can be so heavily pro vaccine without also recognizing the EXACT same effects of actually have the disease.

Did they test for RSV? RSV has been running crazy in the southeast over the last couple of months, with some adults getting it and showing symptoms. I wonder how many cases have been misdiagnosed on either side?

[Quaoarsking]

Anyone who is interested in this aspect of the vaccine debate should read the links provided by Quaoarskink as I did and decide for themselves if ?debunk? is the correct takeaway. These links actually confirm use of fetal tissue from elective abortions for use in the development of the vaccines but do deny actual tissue existing in the vaccines being administered today.

The ethical aspect is not then resolved by the links provided.

Here is a short primer on fetal cell lines and vaccines.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/what-you-need-to-know-about-fetal-cell-lines-and-vaccines?utm_source=lifefacts

You said that they were developed using fetal cells, when they were developed from a fetal cell line (not the same thing), and more outrageously, you said the researchers worked with abortionists to get the cells, which is just totally wrong. That qualifies as a debunking.

And I don't debunk to dunk on you or anything. I just want you to have the right information so that you and others reading will go get the vaccine and save your life, or more likely the lives of others you come in contact with.


ETA - Your link alleges a link between the MMR vaccine and autism, so throw away that whole site.

[shoeless joe]

It?s simple to me, having it may very well give you immunity but we don?t know. So why not go for extra protection, especially vs the other variants. Any other conclusion leads me to think you are looking for a reason not to get vaccinated.

Having it definitely gives you anti bodies. This is not debatable. The vaccine is set up to mimic actually having it, not the other way around. I’m not anti vax by any means. But if it’s not necessary why worry with it?

And read my entire post. The doctor completely shrugged off my sons positive test since he’d already had it last winter. He knew he didn’t contract it again.

And you do realize that one of the popular treatments for someone that has it now is to give them the anti bodies from someone that has already had it to help them fight it and recover quicker…

[shoeless joe]

Did they test for RSV? RSV has been running crazy in the southeast over the last couple of months, with some adults getting it and showing symptoms. I wonder how many cases have been misdiagnosed on either side?

Yes. That’s actually why we took him in because we figured that’s what he had. He was negative for RSV but did also test positive for strep. Doctor prescribed antibiotics for strep and a day and a half later he was back to 100%.

[confucius say]

Not to get in the weeds with the back and forth on vaccines and Covid-19 but one source that I have found very informative is The Darkhorse Podcast hosted by Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying. Both are PhD's in biology and present straight forward information leaving the politics out of it. You can find it on YouTube however because YouTube likes to play God, they also have an Odysee channel.

Dr. Timothy Chen from Madison has been doing a Facebook live every week about it too. Very informative. Very apolitical. Actually was the reason I decided to get the vaccine. He's also a big state fan, FYI.

[Quaoarsking]

Not to get in the weeds with the back and forth on vaccines and Covid-19 but one source that I have found very informative is The Darkhorse Podcast hosted by Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying. Both are PhD's in biology and present straight forward information leaving the politics out of it. You can find it on YouTube however because YouTube likes to play God, they also have an Odysee channel.

Those two are as political as anyone else, and although they are legitimately qualified in science unlike most "alternative" medical media sources, they are pretty fair out of the mainstream on the science. They're not publishing peer-reviewed material about the COVID vaccine, they're just spouting off opinions into the podcastsphere.

[Dawg2003]

Not to get in the weeds with the back and forth on vaccines and Covid-19 but one source that I have found very informative is The Darkhorse Podcast hosted by Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying. Both are PhD's in biology and present straight forward information leaving the politics out of it. You can find it on YouTube however because YouTube likes to play God, they also have an Odysee channel.

I would be very wary of these two. I used to listen to them, but they present very shoddy research to back to their claims. They also platform disreputable guests such as Robert Malone who claims to have invented mRNA technology but actually didn't. Bret and Heather pretty much turned into intellectual charlatans when those Patreon dollars started coming in. Be very wary of academics who have contributed nothing to their field. Real and respected academics have actually contributed papers and studies to their field.

[BeardoMSU]

Be very wary of academics who have contributed nothing to their field.

This, lol.

They've been pretty roundly debunked in their Covid tangents. Grifters gonna grift, though.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccine-cytotoxic-idUSL2N2O01XP?fbclid=IwAR306dB8r1KL7NMiTrkOYKwZDJ5 jF6lhQv_1GUTOLCtY75KzfU3ivRpSvbo

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/ivermectin-is-the-new-hydroxychloroquine-take-2/?fbclid=IwAR3gqNfP7Gz1cJYTJDJZdyeReIgsO3gftDvjrBaN REMDPikiIMCeM22kwQc

https://quillette.com/2021/07/06/looking-for-covid-19-miracle-drugs-we-already-have-them-theyre-called-vaccines/?fbclid=IwAR1dyB0LbWoykhQpk_lLpWUD7OjUQ8lBdu_A5er0 z035czgOwyLwqpBOeRY

[Dolphus Raymond]

The Mississippi Department of Health reported over 1,500 new infections and 34 deaths yesterday. Be a true patriot and get the damn shot.

[StarkVegasSteve]

The Mississippi Department of Health reported over 1,500 new infections and 34 deaths yesterday. Be a true patriot and get the damn shot.

And you wonder why people won't get the shot.....this is why. Now you hate America if you don't get the vaccine. How about, let people make informed decisions for themselves and let them live with the consequences. I know that's a novel concept in today's time, but if you do what you feel is best for you then you're not making a wrong decision.

[RiverCityDawg]

The Mississippi Department of Health reported over 1,500 new infections and 34 deaths yesterday. Be a true patriot and get the damn shot.

I got the vaccine for my own health, but mainly for those around me. But with the data now seeming to show that the virus spreads about the same whether you're vaccinated or not, it's just a question of severity of symptoms, I'm much more inclined to just accept people's choice to get the vaccine or risk getting seriously sick from the virus.

To me, the main reason I have been adamant that people should get it is the idea that you are highly unlikely to spread it if you're vaccinated. With that not seeming to be the case it really just comes down to your own personal risk decision, not the health and well-being of your friends, family and coworkers.

I don't really think patriotism has anything to do with it. Either way, if the virus spreads regardless of whether you've been vaccinated or not, we all just have to move forward with our lives because it's not going anywhere.

[Dolphus Raymond]

When we put our nation ahead of what we personally desire, we are being a patriot. When we all pull in the same direction for the good of the nation, we are being a patriot. So, when we take a vaccination that we would rather not take for the common good of America, we are demonstrating our patriotism.

[NWADAWG]

?Gain-of-function? is the euphemism for biological research aimed at increasing the virulence and lethality of pathogens and viruses. GoF research is government funded; its focus is on enhancing the pathogens? ability to infect different species and to increase their deadly impact as airborne pathogens and viruses.

My counterpart at work is former Navy and spent quite a bit of time in the waters off of the asian nations. When someone at work asked the first time (around Dec. '19 or Jan. '20 if anyone had heard of the virus thing over in china, his response was, "probably came from Wuhan, they've been creating bio-weapons for years. We were watching them when I was over there." Wuhan didn't get mentioned in the news for a few weeks after that so he wasn't just regurgitating Fox news.

So whether people want to accept it or not, this was created at a lab that is to some degree jointly funded by china and the US for "gain of function" work. The Wuhan lab is and has for a long time been creating bio-weapons. We will probably never know if it got out by accident or on purpose (I believe on purpose by chinese to manipulate markets that they wanted more ownership and control at a discount)

All of the hands that are giving out / controlling the data are filthy dirty.

[Dawg2003]

This, lol.

They've been pretty roundly debunked in their Covid tangents. Grifters gonna grift, though.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccine-cytotoxic-idUSL2N2O01XP?fbclid=IwAR306dB8r1KL7NMiTrkOYKwZDJ5 jF6lhQv_1GUTOLCtY75KzfU3ivRpSvbo

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/ivermectin-is-the-new-hydroxychloroquine-take-2/?fbclid=IwAR3gqNfP7Gz1cJYTJDJZdyeReIgsO3gftDvjrBaN REMDPikiIMCeM22kwQc

https://quillette.com/2021/07/06/looking-for-covid-19-miracle-drugs-we-already-have-them-theyre-called-vaccines/?fbclid=IwAR1dyB0LbWoykhQpk_lLpWUD7OjUQ8lBdu_A5er0 z035czgOwyLwqpBOeRY

They've become very disreputable to the point of embarrassment. I've been following them since the Evergreen fiasco. I definitely sympathized with them on that end, but they've gone down a dark hole. They're making a lot of money off of this too. Their Patreon revenue is more than they'd ever make as a professors. They have PhDs, but they don't actually work in their field and have never contributed anything substantial to it. That's a huge red flag.

[RiverCityDawg]

When we put our nation ahead of what we personally desire, we are being a patriot. When we all pull in the same direction for the good of the nation, we are being a patriot. So, when we take a vaccination that we would rather not take for the common good of America, we are demonstrating our patriotism.

If getting the vaccine doesn't actually impact the spread, only the symptoms, it's in the category of not smoking, wearing your seatbelt, wearing a helmet on a motorcycle, eating healthy, etc. Individual decisions impacting ones own well-being. Are those things showing patriotism? I wouldn't say so.

If the vaccine helps stop the spread, I agree with you, but if this recent info from the CDC is correct then that changes it for me.

[shoeless joe]

If getting the vaccine doesn't actually impact the spread, only the symptoms, it's in the category of not smoking, wearing your seatbelt, wearing a helmet on a motorcycle, eating healthy, etc. Individual decisions impacting ones own well-being. Are those things showing patriotism? I wouldn't say so.

If the vaccine helps stop the spread, I agree with you, but if this recent info from the CDC is correct then that changes it for me.

This is what I’m beginning to think as well. Again, I’m not anti vaxx. But what is being released now is saying that getting the vaccine ultimately will keep you out of the hospital. That’s it. So even the patriots that have the vaccine can still spread it. So in the end it’s a personal choice.

When I see data that suggests to me that that vaccine anti bodies are better for me than the anti bodies that I currently have from actually having covid then I will most likely get it. Until then I don’t see the benefit of me getting it to anyone around me.

[Dawgfan77]

The Mississippi Department of Health reported over 1,500 new infections and 34 deaths yesterday. Be a true patriot and get the damn shot.
Couple of things
When they are going back to FEB to count deaths that a little fear porn if you ask me.

So daily deaths have gotten reported erroneously because they keep going back.

If someone test positive on September 2020 but dies due to another reason it's counted as covid death because they were on the covid positive list

[starkvegasdawg]

When we put our nation ahead of what we personally desire, we are being a patriot. When we all pull in the same direction for the good of the nation, we are being a patriot. So, when we take a vaccination that we would rather not take for the common good of America, we are demonstrating our patriotism.

Funny how all the Dems said different when Trump was in office. Biden, Harris, and a slew of others said they wouldn't trust the "Trump" vaccine.

[DownwardDawg]

My wife is an RN supervisor. Her job and all other RN's job in Mississippi totally suck again now due to the unvaccinated folks. The vaccination helps keep you out of the hospital.

[BeardoMSU]

Biden, Harris, and a slew of others said they wouldn't trust the "Trump" vaccine.

Lol, that's not what they said.
They said "they would trust the medical/scientific community", but not just believe something because "he said it". They also always followed up that statement by reiterating that when/if the vaccine was rolled out and deemed safe, that everyone should get it. Combine that with the months and months of vaccine promotion from them since they've been available, its really funny y'all want to go down this road....a lot more crickets coming from Trump and his top folks regarding promoting the benefits of getting vaxxed vs. the alternative, lol.

For extra context, those statements were made during the campaign when Trump was literally using the proposition of a vaccine as an "October surprise"/i.e., political poker chip, rather than a miracle that would save people....as usual, the priority was him and his, not others. This is the same man that said COVID was under control in March 2020, lol. A beacon of honesty. That's where the "I wouldn't trust him just because he said it" comes from.

[Lord McBuckethead]

And you wonder why people won't get the shot.....this is why. Now you hate America if you don't get the vaccine. How about, let people make informed decisions for themselves and let them live with the consequences. I know that's a novel concept in today's time, but if you do what you feel is best for you then you're not making a wrong decision.

No people don't get the shot because they are terrible at making informed decisions. They do not understand statistics. They do not understand how the vaccine was produced and developed. They do not understand the trial process, efficacy rates, etc.

There is only one thing anyone needs to know. Get the vaccine. Socially distance. Wash your hands. Reduce your opportunities to get infected. Wear a mask. Stay home if you feel ill.
Those are the things we can control. Those few simple steps are our duty.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Lol, that's not what they said.
They said "they would trust the medical/scientific community", but not just believe something because "he said it". They also always followed up that statement by reiterating that when/if the vaccine was rolled out and deemed safe, that everyone should get it. Combine that with the months and months of vaccine promotion from them since they've been available, its really funny y'all want to go down this road....a lot more crickets coming from Trump and his top folks regarding promoting the benefits of getting vaxxed vs. the alternative, lol.

For extra context, those statements were made during the campaign when Trump was literally using the proposition of a vaccine as an "October surprise"/i.e., political poker chip, rather than a miracle that would save people....as usual, the priority was him and his, not others. This is the same man that said COVID was under control in March 2020, lol. A beacon of honesty. That's where the "I wouldn't trust him just because he said it" comes from.

Not to mention, at that given time, Trump was suggesting people should inject themselves with bleach or somehow use high energy lights to fry your insides. I am paraphrasing, but yeah. None of it matters. Do your duty. Get the vaccine. Wash your hands. Wear a mask in public and indoors. Socially distance when possible. Reduce the possibility of you being infected. Tell, ask, and expect everyone you know to do the same.

[Lord McBuckethead]

My wife is an RN supervisor. Her job and all other RN's job in Mississippi totally suck again now due to the unvaccinated folks. The vaccination helps keep you out of the hospital.

Unvaxxed people, "That is her problem, nothing to do with me." Probably.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Couple of things
If someone test positive on September 2020 but dies due to another reason it's counted as covid death because they were on the covid positive list

Yeah, that is not how the death count works. Go talk to a doctor dealing with this on the front line, they are the ones that sign the reason of death. They will tell you.

[StarkVegasSteve]

No people don't get the shot because they are terrible at making informed decisions. They do not understand statistics. They do not understand how the vaccine was produced and developed. They do not understand the trial process, efficacy rates, etc.

There is only one thing anyone needs to know. Get the vaccine. Socially distance. Wash your hands. Reduce your opportunities to get infected. Wear a mask. Stay home if you feel ill.
Those are the things we can control. Those few simple steps are our duty.

So......they don't understand the process, the possible effects, or the fact that it actually doesn't protect from contracting it but they need to get it anyways. Not because they did their own research and came to their own PERSONAL decision, but because Lord McBuckethead called them a "moron from Mississippi" on a message board. Have I got it right? And btw, I decided to get it recently, but trust me you were not on the list of reasons why I did. Nor was my "duty"

[Lord McBuckethead]

This is what I’m beginning to think as well. Again, I’m not anti vaxx. But what is being released now is saying that getting the vaccine ultimately will keep you out of the hospital. That’s it. So even the patriots that have the vaccine can still spread it. So in the end it’s a personal choice.

When I see data that suggests to me that that vaccine anti bodies are better for me than the anti bodies that I currently have from actually having covid then I will most likely get it. Until then I don’t see the benefit of me getting it to anyone around me.

No. What is being released now is a circumstance of a new variant hitting the streets. Notice how before 3 weeks ago, we had 6 months of relative stability and vaccinated people had a damn good track record? That is because although the vaccine still helps against Alpha, and helps with hospitalization numbers against Delta, it may be having an issue with lowering the viral load of the delta variant.

Booster shots will be coming down the pipeline to address it.

Again, if everyone would get the damn shot, we eliminate the danger of widespread hospitalization. When we get a booster, we will then up our chances to eliminate the potential infection pool and then kick its ass. The way the strain variants are popping up, I could see this as a worldwide every 6 months booster thing for years if not for the rest of our lives.

[Jarius]

No people don't get the shot because they are terrible at making informed decisions. They do not understand statistics. They do not understand how the vaccine was produced and developed. They do not understand the trial process, efficacy rates, etc.

There is only one thing anyone needs to know. Get the vaccine. Socially distance. Wash your hands. Reduce your opportunities to get infected. Wear a mask. Stay home if you feel ill.
Those are the things we can control. Those few simple steps are our duty.


If you would quit saying stupid stuff like “get the vaccine and continue to wear a mask”people would possibly take you more seriously. No one that is vaccinated should be shamed into wearing a mask. Hell no one period should. If you don’t want the vaccine then take your chances. It is no one’s job here to protect you from your own stupidity. I will never wear a mask again for this crap. If a place requires it I will go somewhere else. I will never support this garbage virtue signaling. Ever. I am done with it.

[Lord McBuckethead]

So......they don't understand the process, the possible effects, or the fact that it actually doesn't protect from contracting it but they need to get it anyways. Not because they did their own research and came to their own PERSONAL decision, but because Lord McBuckethead called them a "moron from Mississippi" on a message board. Have I got it right? And btw, I decided to get it recently, but trust me you were not on the list of reasons why I did. Nor was my "duty"

Not a single vaccine protects you from contracting a virus. It trains your body to have an antibody response to the virus prior to it having a 20 day head start on your immune system. Not polio, not smallpox, not a single one keeps you from contracting a single virus.

And yes, if they do not understand how vaccines work at this point in time and are over the age of 12, they are a moron.

Look man, great you decided to get the vaccine. Hope you live long and stay healthy until you reach the age of 120. But to be frank, I am tired of dumbasses thinking their bullshit self-serving opinions on vaccines have one damn iota of importance in this discussion. This isn't about them. This isn't about me or you. Pandemics are about everyone and there are some actions that are a "Duty" just the same as the fight against communism, fascist, dictators, and fighting for the oppressed.

[Lord McBuckethead]

If you would quit saying stupid stuff like “get the vaccine and continue to wear a mask”people would possibly take you more seriously. No one that is vaccinated should be shamed into wearing a mask. Hell no one period should. If you don’t want the vaccine then take your chances. It is no one’s job here to protect you from your own stupidity. I will never wear a mask again for this crap. If a place requires it I will go somewhere else. I will never support this garbage virtue signaling. Ever. I am done with it.

Shame? Shame, you say? There is no shame into wearing a mask. IF the scientist, whom are studying this virus, and are the most credential individuals on the planet at dealing with viruses say that vaccinated people can carry a viral load and spread the disease to other people, then wearing a mask in public and indoors is not an option.

How hard is that to understand? If, due to the Delta variant, we learn that you could infect other people and 57% of the adults in our state are unvaccinated, and we want to continue to keep businesses up and running..... how do you not wear a mask? Is it itchy? Uncomfortable?

Or can we try our damnest to get all people vaccinated, so then if you don't wear a mask, at least you are not contributing directly to someone else's death.

[Jarius]

Shame? Shame, you say? There is no shame into wearing a mask. IF the scientist, whom are studying this virus, and are the most credential individuals on the planet at dealing with viruses say that vaccinated people can carry a viral load and spread the disease to other people, then wearing a mask in public and indoors is not an option.

How hard is that to understand? If, due to the Delta variant, we learn that you could infect other people and 57% of the adults in our state are unvaccinated, and we want to continue to keep businesses up and running..... how do you not wear a mask? Is it itchy? Uncomfortable?

Or can we try our damnest to get all people vaccinated, so then if you don't wear a mask, at least you are not contributing directly to someone else's death.

No one that is vaccinated is dying. I’m not wearing a mask any more. I don’t care if I spread it. I. Do. Not. Care. If I spread it to people that are not idiots, they are going to have mild cases or no symptoms at all. If I spread it to unvaccinated people, the are probably going to have the same, but may actually die. If they die because I gave it to them, that is their fault and I. Do. Not. Care. If we shut down the state again because unvaccinated people are dying (that has no chance of happening by the way) there should literally be a revolt to take over the state because that is an unacceptable response to people willingly killings themselves. Now, how hard is that to understand you know it all jackass?

[Lord McBuckethead]

If you would quit saying stupid stuff like “get the vaccine and continue to wear a mask”people would possibly take you more seriously. No one that is vaccinated should be shamed into wearing a mask. Hell no one period should. If you don’t want the vaccine then take your chances. It is no one’s job here to protect you from your own stupidity. I will never wear a mask again for this crap. If a place requires it I will go somewhere else. I will never support this garbage virtue signaling. Ever. I am done with it.

Cool man. Keep that attitude. See you when they lock everything back down, cause they will if it reaches enough infections.

[Lord McBuckethead]

No one that is vaccinated is dying. I’m not wearing a mask any more. I don’t care if I spread it. I. Do. Not. Care. If I spread it to people that are not idiots, they are going to have mild cases or no symptoms at all. If I spread it to unvaccinated people, the are probably going to have the same, but may actually die. If they die because I gave it to them, that is their fault and I. Do. Not. Care. If we shut down the state again because unvaccinated people are dying there should literally be a revolt to take over the state because that is an unacceptable response to people willingly killings themselves.

Massachussets begs to differ. No one from Alpha Covid is dying, but a pretty good clip of people vaccinated in Massachussetts is dying of Delta and in pretty bad shape.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm

They have a really high vaccination rate, but Delta ran through them pretty good in a 7 day period. 80 people died, all vaccinated.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Not a single vaccine protects you from contracting a virus. It trains your body to have an antibody response to the virus prior to it having a 20 day head start on your immune system. Not polio, not smallpox, not a single one keeps you from contracting a single virus.

And yes, if they do not understand how vaccines work at this point in time and are over the age of 12, they are a moron.

Look man, great you decided to get the vaccine. Hope you live long and stay healthy until you reach the age of 120. But to be frank, I am tired of dumbasses thinking their bullshit self-serving opinions on vaccines have one damn iota of importance in this discussion. This isn't about them. This isn't about me or you. Pandemics are about everyone and there are some actions that are a "Duty" just the same as the fight against communism, fascist, dictators, and fighting for the oppressed.

Hmm.....just like you giving your opinion?

[Lord McBuckethead]

No one that is vaccinated is dying. I’m not wearing a mask any more. I don’t care if I spread it. I. Do. Not. Care. If I spread it to people that are not idiots, they are going to have mild cases or no symptoms at all. If I spread it to unvaccinated people, the are probably going to have the same, but may actually die. If they die because I gave it to them, that is their fault and I. Do. Not. Care. If we shut down the state again because unvaccinated people are dying (that has no chance of happening by the way) there should literally be a revolt to take over the state because that is an unacceptable response to people willingly killings themselves. Now, how hard is that to understand you know it all jackass?

What if you spread it to my daughter who is only 8?

[Quaoarsking]

No one that is vaccinated is dying. I?m not wearing a mask any more. I don?t care if I spread it. I. Do. Not. Care. If I spread it to people that are not idiots, they are going to have mild cases or no symptoms at all. If I spread it to unvaccinated people, the are probably going to have the same, but may actually die. If they die because I gave it to them, that is their fault and I. Do. Not. Care. If we shut down the state again because unvaccinated people are dying (that has no chance of happening by the way) there should literally be a revolt to take over the state because that is an unacceptable response to people willingly killings themselves. Now, how hard is that to understand you know it all jackass?

That's a really shitty way to live. I would be beside myself if I gave someone a fatal disease, even if I did everything right and they did everything wrong and I really shouldn't be blamed. I'd still be really upset to be the one who caused it.

[Jarius]

Massachussets begs to differ. No one from Alpha Covid is dying, but a pretty good clip of people vaccinated in Massachussetts is dying of Delta and in pretty bad shape.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm

They have a really high vaccination rate, but Delta ran through them pretty good in a 7 day period. 80 people died, all vaccinated.

Ok. Let me change my sentence structure. Almost no one is dying from COVID that is vaccinated. I’m not wearing a mask just like I have not worn my mask during flu season throughout my life (and you didn’t either) when almost no one died from the flu every year. I’m not going through my life in bubble wrap. If you want to then go ahead. Telling other people they should go through the rest of their life looking like bubble boy when we have an extremely highly effective vaccine available for anyone who wants it makes you a jackass. Period.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Hmm.....just like you giving your opinion?

My opinion that Getting a Vaccine (Scientifically proven fact for 75 years and eradicated or otherwise destroyed viruses like Polio and Smallpox), washing your hands (duh), socially distancing (no shit), and wearing a mask (doctors have been doing it for 100 years) all reduce the spread and future potential deaths is an issue?

If it is for you, then there is nothing anyone can say that will convince you that the emperor has no clothes and I am sorry.

All of those methods are the only control we have over a vaccine.

[Jarius]

You call people idiots for not getting a vaccine because of how effective it is and then your response to why we should all be wearing masks is that the vaccine isn’t effective in Massachusetts and a bunch of vaccinated people are dying. How can someone possibly take you seriously with that stance?

[Jarius]

What if you spread it to my daughter who is only 8?

Then your daughter isn’t going to die

[Jarius]

That's a really shitty way to live. I would be beside myself if I gave someone a fatal disease, even if I did everything right and they did everything wrong and I really shouldn't be blamed. I'd still be really upset to be the one who caused it.

Good for you. I don’t give a shit.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Hmm.....just like you giving your opinion?

Simply put, mine is not an opinion. It is medical fact, or as close to medical fact as I or anyone else can get.
I will rely on experts in the field. I will rely on the statistics being provided (being updated as new information is presented). Anything else is people trying to justify their INCORRECT and Dangerous opinions that are selfish and small minded. If I am incorrect, nothing happens to you. IF those spewing bullshit are incorrect, people die.

A simple test. If someone is against a vaccine and they jump from one bullshit small anecdotal reason to another..... they made up their mind way way way before seeing actual evidence and they are searching for justification that supports their incorrect initial assessment.

[StarkVegasSteve]

My opinion that Getting a Vaccine (Scientifically proven fact for 75 years and eradicated or otherwise destroyed viruses like Polio and Smallpox), washing your hands (duh), socially distancing (no shit), and wearing a mask (doctors have been doing it for 100 years) all reduce the spread and future potential deaths is an issue?

If it is for you, then there is nothing anyone can say that will convince you that the emperor has no clothes and I am sorry.

All of those methods are the only control we have over a vaccine.

That's fine that all of that is your opinion. I happen to agree with you on that. But where you lose me, and most others on this board, is when you call everyone else a dumbass for having a different opinion. Whether you feel it's right or wrong doesn't matter. It's THEIR OPINION. Just like your opinion is that anyone who disagrees with you is a dumbass and my opinion that you probably need to stay holed up inside til this pandemic passes and off ED for a couple of years is mine. Doesn't make it right or wrong, just a personal opinion.

[Lord McBuckethead]

You call people idiots for not getting a vaccine because of how effective it is and then your response to why we should all be wearing masks is that the vaccine isn’t effective in Massachusetts and a bunch of vaccinated people are dying. How can someone possibly take you seriously with that stance?

NO, once again, read the dang link and try to understand statistics. Every expert that has commented on this situation has directly discussed the dangers of if this would have been unvaccinated people since the area this happened was 73% vaccinated. It would have been much worse. Vaccines work. The are not a 100% fail safe, but they are damn damn damn close to it. Why risk it? Why risk your neighbors health?

The point of that link was to prove that with the Delta variant out there, it is prudent to wear a mask indoors when you are out and about. The vaccine does not 100% protect you from contracting the virus. No ever said it was, except for the guy I was responding to. All over the country, people are getting hospitalized over Delta, and there has always been a 90-95 effectiveness on the vaccine. That is all I am saying.

[Lord McBuckethead]

That's fine that all of that is your opinion. I happen to agree with you on that. But where you lose me, and most others on this board, is when you call everyone else a dumbass for having a different opinion. Whether you feel it's right or wrong doesn't matter. It's THEIR OPINION. Just like your opinion is that anyone who disagrees with you is a dumbass and my opinion that you probably need to stay holed up inside til this pandemic passes and off ED for a couple of years is mine. Doesn't make it right or wrong, just a personal opinion.

You have a point, but at some point, its exhausting. And if people get their panties in a wad about how I talk down to them about vaccines, well read a book fellas, cause there will be more where that came from. Vaccines have worked for damn 80 years, they will continue to work, they are currently working, and if there is an issue with variants, it is still the best shot we have and it is your Duty to get one. I will leave it at that. DUTY.

[Jarius]

NO, once again, read the dang link and try to understand statistics. Every expert that has commented on this situation has directly discussed the dangers of if this would have been unvaccinated people since the area this happened was 73% vaccinated. It would have been much worse. Vaccines work. The are not a 100% fail safe, but they are damn damn damn close to it. Why risk it? Why risk your neighbors health?

The point of that link was to prove that with the Delta variant out there, it is prudent to wear a mask indoors when you are out and about. The vaccine does not 100% protect you from contracting the virus. No ever said it was, except for the guy I was responding to. All over the country, people are getting hospitalized over Delta, and there has always been a 90-95 effectiveness on the vaccine. That is all I am saying.


The chances of dying with delta or any other variant is almost zero if you are below the age required to get a vaccine or vaccinated. How about you open your eyes to those statistics. Stop telling people that it is their duty to wear a GD mask when there is a vaccine available that virtually makes it a miracle in a bad way if you die from COVID. This is never going away. Ever. Learn to live with it or don’t. Just stop telling people what to do.

[Turfdawg67]

Good for you. I don’t give a shit.

**Delete**

Nope. Not getting into it... He knows what he is.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Then your daughter isn’t going to die

How do you know? She could be taking cancer treatments right now. She could have an autoimmune disease issue and we are doing everything we can to keep her isolated. You go out into public, give it to me, and then I give it to her. You sleep good cause you have no idea that you passed it on. Just so you know, my daughter is fantastic.

Whereas you could wear a mask, get the vaccine, wash your hands, socially distance, and then sleep good because you knew you did everything you could do to limit your contribution to what is a terrible situation. And if the experts asks you to do something different based on new information tomorrow, you do that because it is your duty in society.

[Lord McBuckethead]

That's a really shitty way to live. I would be beside myself if I gave someone a fatal disease, even if I did everything right and they did everything wrong and I really shouldn't be blamed. I'd still be really upset to be the one who caused it.

Exactly. Finally. Exactly how I feel about it. Chances are, you would never even know you caused it. Chances are you would pass it on to a random person, at the store, or in Davis Wade. You go and live your life, and two weeks someone random died.

Can we all not just agree to do our best?

[Jarius]

**Delete**

Nope. Not getting into it... He knows what he is.

Yes I am an asshole. Someone has to be to stand up to people who are unreasonable.

[Jarius]

How do you know? She could be taking cancer treatments right now. She could have an autoimmune disease issue and we are doing everything we can to keep her isolated. You go out into public, give it to me, and then I give it to her. You sleep good cause you have no idea that you passed it on. Just so you know, my daughter is fantastic.

Whereas you could wear a mask, get the vaccine, wash your hands, socially distance, and then sleep good because you knew you did everything you could do to limit your contribution to what is a terrible situation. And if the experts asks you to do something different based on new information tomorrow, you do that because it is your duty in society.

Holy shit. You want everyone in the world to wear a damn mask for the rest of their life on the chance that They may spread a disease with a 99 % survivabilty rate to .00001 % of the population who has a less than 99 % survivabilty rate. Do you hear yourself? Do you know how ignorant that thought process is to anyone with a functioning brain? Grow up.

[Lord McBuckethead]

That's fine that all of that is your opinion. I happen to agree with you on that. But where you lose me, and most others on this board, is when you call everyone else a dumbass for having a different opinion. Whether you feel it's right or wrong doesn't matter. It's THEIR OPINION. Just like your opinion is that anyone who disagrees with you is a dumbass and my opinion that you probably need to stay holed up inside til this pandemic passes and off ED for a couple of years is mine. Doesn't make it right or wrong, just a personal opinion.

Well at least your last statement is an actual opinion. Me thinking people who double down or triple down on their incorrect vaccine opinion in the face the best established medical facts we have is an idiot, is more than just an opinion. They are almost the definition of a dumbass.

[Turfdawg67]

Yes I am an asshole. Someone has to be to stand up to people who are unreasonable.

I wish there was an asshole variant...

[Lord McBuckethead]

Holy shit. You want everyone in the world to wear a damn mask for the rest of their life on the chance that They may spread a disease with a 99 % survivabilty rate to .00001 % of the population who has a less than 99 % survivabilty rate. Do you hear yourself? Do you know how ignorant that thought process is to anyone with a functioning brain? Grow up.

Yes, sure why not. Wear a mask until the outbreak not the pandemic is over or everyone is vaccinated. Just when you are in public and indoors. If our contact tracing system was better, you wouldn't have to.

When the outbreak is over, don't wear one. Go lick door knobs for all I care. If the virus isn't around in outbreak numbers there isn't an issue.

We all agree to wear a seat belt when driving. The odds of you hitting something and dying is astronomical, but it is still required.

[Lord McBuckethead]

I wish there was an asshole variant...

Oh there is, its called a politician. Boom.

[Jarius]

Yes, sure why not. Wear a mask until the outbreak not the pandemic is over or everyone is vaccinated. Just when you are in public and indoors. If our contact tracing system was better, you wouldn't have to.

When the outbreak is over, don't wear one. Go lick door knobs for all I care. If the virus isn't around in outbreak numbers there isn't an issue.

We all agree to wear a seat belt when driving. The odds of you hitting something and dying is astronomical, but it is still required.

That’s what you don’t understand apparently. This is never going to end. Eventually it will get less political and people will just accept this as a part of life but it is never going away. The numbers are never going to get better. People are not going to get forcibly vaccinated and will pay for their ignorance when they choose to defy common sense. Learn to live with it or stay in the basement. Whatever.

[Jarius]

I wish there was an asshole variant...

Well I am vaccinated and good to go with protection from it. I am glad there is not a lockdown and mask wearing even though we have a vaccine variant. You pussies would be the first to die. Then again you are vaccinated too I assume so you would probably be good to go for your variant as well.

[Lord McBuckethead]

That’s what you don’t understand apparently. This is never going to end. Eventually it will get less political and people will just accept this as a part of life but it is never going away. The numbers are never going to get better. People are not going to get forcibly vaccinated and will pay for their ignorance when they choose to defy common sense. Learn to live with it or stay in the basement. Whatever.

The numbers will get better. Hell they already were getting better or manageable a couple months ago. People will get the vaccine. New boosters will be developed. Hell, maybe totally new types of vaccines will be developed beyond the booster. We will change our approach as the science dictates, and it will become a part of our lives just like the common cold or the flu.

None of that has any bearing on what people need to do today, in this current outbreak. The road to better numbers is going to be long, and probably more difficult than it has to be as long as people refuse to do what is being asked. And yes, that may change next month, 6 months after that, and maybe 2 years in the future again.

[Lord McBuckethead]

You have one thing right, and it has been clear as crystal from the beginning, it is never going to end.
Just depends on how painful we want to make it on ourselves and others along the way.

[Lord McBuckethead]

I will end with this.

Get the vaccine. Do your best to wash your hands, socially distance, wear a mask when you have any issues and are in public.
Covid will be here forever, but the pain associated with it can and will be minimized if everyone does their part.

[Jarius]

The numbers will get better. Hell they already were getting better or manageable a couple months ago. People will get the vaccine. New boosters will be developed. Hell, maybe totally new types of vaccines will be developed beyond the booster. We will change our approach as the science dictates, and it will become a part of our lives just like the common cold or the flu.

None of that has any bearing on what people need to do today, in this current outbreak. The road to better numbers is going to be long, and probably more difficult than it has to be as long as people refuse to do what is being asked. And yes, that may change next month, 6 months after that, and maybe 2 years in the future again.

There are always going to be new variants. The numbers are always going to fluctuate. I am not going to and no one else should feel pressured to wear a face diaper any more. Learn to live With it or don’t and keep screaming at the sky for people to wear face diapers. I don’t care. Signing off on the topic

-Resident asshole

[Lord McBuckethead]

How old are you? Just wondering.
If I were to guess I would say you were either 44 or 68. Each for different reasons.

[BeardoMSU]

Good for you. I don?t give a shit.

Be sure to say that to your fellow parishioner at church Sunday, as well.

[Jarius]

Be sure to say that to your fellow parishioner at church Sunday, as well.

I do not go to church but you can when you do.

[Jarius]

How old are you? Just wondering.
If I were to guess I would say you were either 44 or 68. Each for different reasons.

36. I have 3 combat deployments and have spent 3 of the last 7 years away from my family of 5 fulfilling my “duty”. That is why your take on duty is so comical to me. I have done my duty in more ways than you can freaking imagine and I did the same with COVID. I will not be preached to by anyone about my duty of wearing a face mask when people are willingly not getting vaccinated. Do your job and get vaccinated and leave me alone.

[Lord McBuckethead]

36. I ha e 3 combat deployments and have spent 3 of the last 5 years away from my family fulfilling my “duty”. That is why your take on duty is so comically hilarious to me. I have done my duty in more ways than you can freaking imagine and I did the same with COVID. I will not be preached to by anyone about my duty.

Nevermind. I wanted to edit to add back something. 36, never would have guessed it.

[starkvegasdawg]

Lol, that's not what they said.
They said "they would trust the medical/scientific community", but not just believe something because "he said it". They also always followed up that statement by reiterating that when/if the vaccine was rolled out and deemed safe, that everyone should get it. Combine that with the months and months of vaccine promotion from them since they've been available, its really funny y'all want to go down this road....a lot more crickets coming from Trump and his top folks regarding promoting the benefits of getting vaxxed vs. the alternative, lol.

For extra context, those statements were made during the campaign when Trump was literally using the proposition of a vaccine as an "October surprise"/i.e., political poker chip, rather than a miracle that would save people....as usual, the priority was him and his, not others. This is the same man that said COVID was under control in March 2020, lol. A beacon of honesty. That's where the "I wouldn't trust him just because he said it" comes from.

Cuomo later announced that New York would conduct its own review of the vaccines, because, ?Frankly, I?m not going to trust the federal government?s opinion, and I wouldn?t recommend [it] to New Yorkers, based on the federal government?s opinion.?

In a Sept. 2, 2020 TV interview, Biden referred to political influence over two federal agencies leading the fight against the pandemic, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Food and Drug Administration. He said:

"Look at what?s happened. Enormous pressure put on the CDC not to put out the detailed guidelines. The enormous pressure being put on the FDA to say they?re going, that the following protocol will in fact reduce, it will have a giant impact on COVID. All these things turn out not to be true, and when a president continues to mislead and lie, when we finally do, God willing, get a vaccine, who?s going to take the shot? Who?s going to take the shot? You going to be the first one to say, ?Put me ? sign me up, they now say it?s OK?? I?m not being facetious."

[Turfdawg67]

Well I am vaccinated and good to go with protection from it. I am glad there is not a lockdown and mask wearing even though we have a vaccine variant. You pussies would be the first to die. Then again you are vaccinated too I assume so you would probably be good to go for your variant as well.

Hmmm... p*ssy variant. Sign me up!

[Lord McBuckethead]

Cuomo later announced that New York would conduct its own review of the vaccines, because, ?Frankly, I?m not going to trust the federal government?s opinion, and I wouldn?t recommend [it] to New Yorkers, based on the federal government?s opinion.?

In a Sept. 2, 2020 TV interview, Biden referred to political influence over two federal agencies leading the fight against the pandemic, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Food and Drug Administration. He said:

"Look at what?s happened. Enormous pressure put on the CDC not to put out the detailed guidelines. The enormous pressure being put on the FDA to say they?re going, that the following protocol will in fact reduce, it will have a giant impact on COVID. All these things turn out not to be true, and when a president continues to mislead and lie, when we finally do, God willing, get a vaccine, who?s going to take the shot? Who?s going to take the shot? You going to be the first one to say, ?Put me ? sign me up, they now say it?s OK?? I?m not being facetious."

At the time, Trump was directly influencing what the CDC said as guidance to schools. He literally had them turn 180 degrees from what they were going to say because he knew mask mandates in schools or closing schools was going to hurt him politically.

Biden's comments at the time were correct. If I remember correctly, they issued a draft to the media early or someone leaked it and the Trump administration made them revise almost every guidance to meet what he felt would be easier to digest for his political campaign. What Biden got wrong is that places within the US, like MS, could reopen schools and follow the revised protocols and keep the infection rate down. We did a great job last year, and I along with many was glad the schools had what they needed to open school. Places like NY and CA with population densities way beyond ours couldn't do that.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Cuomo later announced that New York would conduct its own review of the vaccines, because, ?Frankly, I?m not going to trust the federal government?s opinion, and I wouldn?t recommend [it] to New Yorkers, based on the federal government?s opinion.?

In a Sept. 2, 2020 TV interview, Biden referred to political influence over two federal agencies leading the fight against the pandemic, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Food and Drug Administration. He said:

"Look at what?s happened. Enormous pressure put on the CDC not to put out the detailed guidelines. The enormous pressure being put on the FDA to say they?re going, that the following protocol will in fact reduce, it will have a giant impact on COVID. All these things turn out not to be true, and when a president continues to mislead and lie, when we finally do, God willing, get a vaccine, who?s going to take the shot? Who?s going to take the shot? You going to be the first one to say, ?Put me ? sign me up, they now say it?s OK?? I?m not being facetious."

In truth though, the terrible underplaying of the risk by that administration led to one of the largest outbreaks in modern medical history in this country. It wasn't the sole reason, but it also didn't help.

[Jarius]

Nevermind. I wanted to edit to add back something. 36, never would have guessed it.

It’s fine. I had to edit mine too. My fat fingers typo a lot on an iPhone. I’m also not republican or religious, which surprises most.

[Turfdawg67]

Nevermind.

I know, can't criticize his personal opinions based upon his occupation. And obviously he's a better American than you. But in all seriousness, Jarius... thank you for your service. And thoughts and prayers if you get Covid.

[DownwardDawg]

Unvaxxed people, "That is her problem, nothing to do with me." Probably.

That's pretty much it.

[Jarius]

I know, can't criticize his personal opinions based upon his occupation. And obviously he's a better American than you. But in all seriousness, Jarius... thank you for your service. And thoughts and prayers if you get Covid.

I don’t mind my opinions being criticized I just do not want to be told it is my duty to do anything that trivial and meaningless especially when there is a vaccine available. And yea, I probably am a better American than he or you (or maybe I am not)but that’s ok too. Like you said, I chose that occupation. And thank you for the backhanded compliment. I probably had it coming but that is ok. I am an asshole and can take it.

[confucius say]

Simply put, mine is not an opinion. It is medical fact, or as close to medical fact as I or anyone else can get.
I will rely on experts in the field. I will rely on the statistics being provided (being updated as new information is presented). Anything else is people trying to justify their INCORRECT and Dangerous opinions that are selfish and small minded. If I am incorrect, nothing happens to you. IF those spewing bullshit are incorrect, people die.

A simple test. If someone is against a vaccine and they jump from one bullshit small anecdotal reason to another..... they made up their mind way way way before seeing actual evidence and they are searching for justification that supports their incorrect initial assessment.

Except it's not. Biden's covid czar said yesterday that masks don't work unless it's a N95. Everything else is stupid.

That said, I love all you guys and hope you stay healthy.

[confucius say]

At the time, Trump was directly influencing what the CDC said as guidance to schools. He literally had them turn 180 degrees from what they were going to say because he knew mask mandates in schools or closing schools was going to hurt him politically.

Biden's comments at the time were correct. If I remember correctly, they issued a draft to the media early or someone leaked it and the Trump administration made them revise almost every guidance to meet what he felt would be easier to digest for his political campaign. What Biden got wrong is that places within the US, like MS, could reopen schools and follow the revised protocols and keep the infection rate down. We did a great job last year, and I along with many was glad the schools had what they needed to open school. Places like NY and CA with population densities way beyond ours couldn't do that.

Biden is doing the same thing. Psacki literally admitted the White House was flagging information it disagreed with to keep it from reaching the public.

They are the same. Neither can be trusted and neither give a damn about your health. They are looking out for them.

[BeardoMSU]

All I know is this thread is bound to end with Scooba locking it, then pounding an alka-seltzer and a double shot of bourbon.***

[confucius say]

I wish we as a society would take all the energy with which we debate covid and vaccines and channel it into tracking down the effers that caused this and putting a bullet between their eyes. That is a patriotic act I could get behind.

[R2Dawg]

36. I have 3 combat deployments and have spent 3 of the last 7 years away from my family of 5 fulfilling my ?duty?. That is why your take on duty is so comical to me. I have done my duty in more ways than you can freaking imagine and I did the same with COVID. I will not be preached to by anyone about my duty of wearing a face mask when people are willingly not getting vaccinated. Do your job and get vaccinated and leave me alone.

You telling people to do their job and get vaccinated is like a citizen telling you to do your job and sacrifice your life for mine serving in the military.

I know people that have died from the vaccine, messed up for life, those who had vaccine and still got Covid and died. People need to get off their high horse on the vaccine and masks. Only people doing this are those that don't know the science on either.

I'm not anti vax but this ain't a vax and there are risks. Just like Covid it helps some people and not others. For those with natural immunity they don't need a vax.

[Jarius]

You telling people to do their job and get vaccinated is like a citizen telling you to do your job and sacrifice your life for mine serving in the military.

I know people that have died from the vaccine, messed up for life, those who had vaccine and still got Covid and died. People need to get off their high horse on the vaccine and masks. Only people doing this are those that don't know the science on either.

I'm not anti vax but this ain't a vax and there are risks. Just like Covid it helps some people and not others. For those with natural immunity they don't need a vax.

Ok. Don’t get vaccinated. I don’t care either way. Not really any of my business and will not effect me in any way.

[Dawgfan77]

Yeah, that is not how the death count works. Go talk to a doctor dealing with this on the front line, they are the ones that sign the reason of death. They will tell you.

Actually that's exactly how we are counting them but go on with your theory