Simon Biles hiding behind mental health

[Irondawg]

http://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/31897392

Has to be an injury and she didn?t want to aggrevate it before going into the individual events is my guess. Which is fine but don?t make up a lame excuse when everyone knows you tweaked and ankle.

You don?t train endlessly for the Olympics and then just decide ?I don?t feel like it? on competition day. Especially when you are the best person on the team. Just says I was a little banged up and thought that steeping back gave the team the best chance to win and that it?s personally disappointing to not get to compete but unneeded to put the team first. That?s what you would have heard 10 years ago.

This is why I?m having trouble getting into the Olympics - too many athletes have soured me lately by their attitudes.

[Maverick91]

http://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/31897392

Has to be an injury and she didn?t want to aggrevate it before going into the individual events is my guess. Which is fine but don?t make up a lame excuse when everyone knows you tweaked and ankle.

You don?t train endlessly for the Olympics and then just decide ?I don?t feel like it? on competition day. Especially when you are the best person on the team. Just says I was a little banged up and thought that steeping back gave the team the best chance to win and that it?s personally disappointing to not get to compete but unneeded to put the team first. That?s what you would have heard 10 years ago.

This is why I?m having trouble getting into the Olympics - too many athletes have soured me lately by their attitudes.

Are you asking for personal responsibility? novel idea.

[Lord McBuckethead]

It is 100% up to her. You have no idea what she is going through mentally or physically. That is why we have alternates to compete. What is the issue here?

Edited to add, she is the best that has ever competed in that sport. If she wants to save her last few tumbles for her individual event, then who the 17 is any one of us to question her on any decision she makes.

I would love to have a running commentary surrounding every professional decision or action you have ever taken, bud.

[ScoobaDawg]

http://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/31897392

Has to be an injury and she didn?t want to aggrevate it before going into the individual events is my guess. Which is fine but don?t make up a lame excuse when everyone knows you tweaked and ankle.

You don?t train endlessly for the Olympics and then just decide ?I don?t feel like it? on competition day. Especially when you are the best person on the team. Just says I was a little banged up and thought that steeping back gave the team the best chance to win and that it?s personally disappointing to not get to compete but unneeded to put the team first. That?s what you would have heard 10 years ago.

This is why I?m having trouble getting into the Olympics - too many athletes have soured me lately by their attitudes.

WOW... so you are in Her head and know what's going on?
Way to presume things.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

Does gymnastics equate to other sports? Would the same be said if Tom Brady bowed out of super bowl after a bad quarter due to mental things?

[ScoobaDawg]

It is 100% up to her. You have no idea what she is going through mentally or physically. That is why we have alternates to compete. What is the issue here?

Edited to add, she is the best that has ever competed in that sport. If she wants to save her last few tumbles for her individual event, then who the 17 is any one of us to question her on any decision she makes.

I would love to have a running commentary surrounding every professional decision or action you have ever taken, bud.

Exactly.... his commentary is a true keyboard warrior.
Let's not forget all the shit she's been thru over the past 5 years since rio.
I hope like hell she shines and takes gold in everything individual.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Melt.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Does gymnastics equate to other sports? Would the same be said if Tom Brady bowed out of super bowl after a bad quarter due to mental things?

We can play What-aboutism all you want. Brady (under contract) has nothing to do with Biles. Although, I bet Brady could decide not to play if it wasn't in his best interest because he has the money to cover the ramifications.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

Yea. I agree. Everyone can call their own shots. But I don?t think it?s unfair to ask questions about the worlds best ever sitting out and hurting her team when it wasn?t a physical injury. Those would certainly be asked of athletes of other sports. I was just asking if it was the same.

[Irondawg]

My point is she?s hurt and pretty much everyone knows it. I don?t mind her bowing out and I think I made that clear in my original post. If she wants to save herself for the individual competition than I?m totally fine with that.

What I didn?t like was the spin.

I think it?s total crap that they wouldn?t let her do her special move. I?m a fan of hers but I didn?t like the excuse making beyond that and I?m sorry if my original post came across as overly aggressive.

[Hot Rock]

Sweeping stuff under the rug has been the problem. Did you want here to Lie?

Reports of sexual abuse were ignored by the US Olympic Gymnastic for years and years. It was really bad and Simone was one of the victims. Her giving full disclosure about here issues is refreshing. Someone telling the truth, I can't imagine that one would get admonished for doing so.

I have no doubt she will represent this country the best she can and I am proud she is representing these United States and not someone too scared to step up and say what is wrong.

[Irondawg]

I?ll add that I?d argue that Olympic gymnasts are some of the most mentally tough athletes out there normally.

They train mercilessly, are pushed hard from an insanely young age, compete in pain, all events are performed individually and most events you only get one run at it. Those are insane conditions.

All that for something most people only pay attention during the Olympics. There is no huge professional league with money and glory. And you are pretty much done with the sport by your early 20?s when most others are hitting their prime.

Not competing in the one event anybody cares about in your sport because of mental fatigue is something I wouldn?t expect to hear, even as a cover story.

[Irondawg]

Sweeping stuff under the rug has been the problem. Did you want here to Lie?

Reports of sexual abuse were ignored by the US Olympic Gymnastic for years and years. It was really bad and Simone was one of the victims. Her giving full disclosure about here issues is refreshing. Someone telling the truth, I can't imagine that one would get admonished for doing so.

I have no doubt she will represent this country the best she can and I am proud she is representing these United States and not someone too scared to step up and say what is wrong.

My point is I don?t think she?s telling the truth. I think she?s hurt. And look being hurt right before your world stage event would be emotionally devastating so maybe it?s a bit of half-truth. Maybe that?s our disconnect.

I?m also going to change the title as maybe I shouldn?t have used the word ?hiding?

[parabrave]

Does gymnastics equate to other sports? Would the same be said if Tom Brady bowed out of super bowl after a bad quarter due to mental things?

Of course it does! Haven't you been watching Ninja Warrior???

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

Biles said it was stress and anxiety and that she was ?second guessing herself? after a 5 hour break between practice and the competition. She denied it was an injury.

[Irondawg]

I thought I saw multiple reports stating she sustained a leg/ankle injury and was seen with the doctors attending to her and there was speculation she wasn?t going to be able to compete.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

She denies injury. I just read a whole article with quotes from Biles.

[Indndawg]

https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/1*Fxme-rt2YSnE4pt9GVFyUA.jpeg

[R2Dawg]

Does gymnastics equate to other sports? Would the same be said if Tom Brady bowed out of super bowl after a bad quarter due to mental things?

It would be front page news.

I don't know what is gong on so can't really comment on it with Biles that is. May have nothing to do with it but I did hear about something with judges not judging her the same, don't know what that comment from judges was about.

[Lord McBuckethead]

My point is I don?t think she?s telling the truth. I think she?s hurt. And look being hurt right before your world stage event would be emotionally devastating so maybe it?s a bit of half-truth. Maybe that?s our disconnect.

I?m also going to change the title as maybe I shouldn?t have used the word ?hiding?

Well good thing your opinion on this doesn't really matter. And I am sure you definitely meant to use the word "hiding". Like it is any of our business if she is.

[Lord McBuckethead]

It would be front page news.

I don't know what is gong on so can't really comment on it with Biles that is. May have nothing to do with it but I did hear about something with judges not judging her the same, don't know what that comment from judges was about.

From what I have heard, her persona was earning higher marks, but also her level of difficulty and execution did as well. Hell, she does a few moves no other woman in history has been even able to achieve in their home gyms versus on the stage of national championships or Olympics.

[Offshore Dawg]

Time out, Simon has earned the right to make whatever decision she believes is best. Some of you people's opinions are not worth shit.

[BB30]

Well good thing your opinion on this doesn't really matter. And I am sure you definitely meant to use the word "hiding". Like it is any of our business if she is.

I agree with your general premise but the way you presented it was a little over the top on the bashing immediately.

I would imagine if Dak Prescott had decided to sit out the Alabama game in 2014 on Friday night before the game Saturday due to mental health reasons(which he fully would have had reason to have some mental health problems at that point) you wouldn't have responded the same way.

You can disregard that with your whataboutism reference but it is a fair question to ask if you're going to bash someone else when you wouldn't have the same response if it was a male playing for the college team you pull for on the biggest stage that football program had ever seen.

And I may be wrong about how you would have responded and if so, my apologies. I just think people over use the whataboutism when they don't actually have a defense against the return question.

Instead of using a whataboutism reference, why not just explain why the Tom Brady situation would be different from this situation? If you're truly trying to change someone's perspective that would be how you would have responded.

If your just looking to bash someone without having to answer any return questions, that is when people typically pull out the "whataboutism" reference, at least in my experiences when talking with people that have differing beliefs from myself.

If I am in a general conversation or light hearted debate with someone and they ask a whataboutism question I usually take time to compare the two situations and state my opinion on why the two situations are different and if I can't come to a conclusion on why the two are different then it usually shows me where my bias lies.

[JetRoh]

The coddling here is absurd. This is a low point for American Olympics and a national embarrassment on the world stage. How far we've fallen as a society since Kerri Strug. It's a perfect metaphor for where we are as a society. Selfish, coddled, quit at the first sign of trouble, leave others hanging out to dry.

I don't know what their end goal is but the nonstop barrage of "mental health, mental health, mental health" obviously isn't a coincidence.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

If we are to treat women the same as men, as we have been told they are the same and are not different, then questions can absolutely be asked of the GOAT for sitting out a team event due to nerves. How is that off limits?

[BulldogDX55]

http://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/31897392

Has to be an injury and she didn?t want to aggrevate it before going into the individual events is my guess. Which is fine but don?t make up a lame excuse when everyone knows you tweaked and ankle.

You don?t train endlessly for the Olympics and then just decide ?I don?t feel like it? on competition day. Especially when you are the best person on the team. Just says I was a little banged up and thought that steeping back gave the team the best chance to win and that it?s personally disappointing to not get to compete but unneeded to put the team first. That?s what you would have heard 10 years ago.

This is why I?m having trouble getting into the Olympics - too many athletes have soured me lately by their attitudes.

So I would assume that you are going to take a massive shit on Dak too for being up front and honest about his struggles with mental health? Just because you are fortunate enough to not have struggled with that doesn't mean others don't.

[Irondawg]

I think this is what the PR department advised as we're hearing it a lot more of it and people/media have become uncomfortable questioning it b/c it's a sensitive subject. She clearly has something going on - I'm not sure what.

I just have a hard time buying that a champion that has performed under intense pressure time after time and after time and has delivered just suddenly melted under the pressure of what I'm guessing is her last major competition. Somebody an another board alluded that she's having a bout of vertigo which would make sense. I've seen a few other things so I'm not sure what's going on, but not to call this extremely odd and question it to some degree seems odd. Especially given her history.

This isn't Cerantola saying he couldn't pitch in the college WS b/c he was all over the place in his warmup session. Something like that would get him roasted on here but it would fit a pattern of his performance on bigger stages. Tons of people struggle with the pressure and anxiety of big events. I folded like a lawn chair often is small stakes sports so I get it, but you don't see it out of decorated champions in the middle of major events. We have Osaka recently but I'm trying to think of another one.

It's a huge story in perhaps the most glorified Olympic Event so I guess I'm a bit surprised here at how people are immediately taking up for her and praising her courage in the moment. Maybe it's 100% legit and I'm a jerk but it's just not passing the full smell test with me and aren't message boards for forming opinions with 10% of the facts?

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

If Dak was in the Super Bowl and had a bad 1st quarter. He pulls himself and says it?s due to anxiety. Cowboys lose the game. How would Dak be looked at? What questions would be asked?

[Irondawg]

So I would assume that you are going to take a massive shit on Dak too for being up front and honest about his struggles with mental health? Just because you are fortunate enough to not have struggled with that doesn't mean others don't.

You are talking about apples and oranges here. My claim (right or wrong) is that this isn't the reason she didn't compete and was used as a safe cover.

I have no problem with athletes opening up about this stuff. But how many stories do we hear about guys throwing up before games? There have been whole sports movies where dealing with the pressure was the whole crux of the movie. Pressure/anxiety are part of sports and have been forever. It's nothing new and tons of athletes struggle with this and they should - it's high pressure stakes.

I don't see how Dak talking about it off-the field has anything to do with someone not competing in their biggest event because of it. When he sits out a playoff game or the Super Bowl b/c of it then we have a valid comparison.

[ScoobaDawg]

The coddling here is absurd. This is a low point for American Olympics and a national embarrassment on the world stage. How far we've fallen as a society since Kerri Strug. It's a perfect metaphor for where we are as a society. Selfish, coddled, quit at the first sign of trouble, leave others hanging out to dry.

I don't know what their end goal is but the nonstop barrage of "mental health, mental health, mental health" obviously isn't a coincidence.

F*ck off Rex... you sad sack of sh!t

[Extendedcab]

F*ck off Rex... you sad sack of sh!t

This is really sad! Our moderator sets a new low in how to behave on this board! How anybody can be banned from this board is absurd given this post! Do you have any integrity or standards at all?

[ScoobaDawg]

This is really sad! Our moderator sets a new low in how to behave on this board! How anybody can be banned from this board is absurd given this post! Do you have any integrity or standards at all?

He was banned for previous posts not this one. He was given a one year ban for constantly bringing up politics after repeated warnings and trolling. You don't just get to make a new username and come back a week later...

[Quaoarsking]

NFL QBs aren't the right analogy here. If a starting pitcher got roughed up in the first inning of Game 7 of the World Series and said "take me out, I don't have my stuff today," he's probably doing right by the team.

Biles's decision probably saved the US a silver medal. Had she continued to compete, we might've gotten bronze or nothing at all.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

Disagree. If the GOAT, say a Greg Maddox or Randy Johnson, request to be taken out in game 7 due to being anxious and due to pressure, they would be crushed.

[Dawg_Lover]

There have been good points made here. To compete athletically, on a world stage, IMO it takes a no excuses type mental toughness, as well as the physical. If Dak had been any different, this forum would have been the first to call him out and jump on his case. IMO some, not all mind you, but some .... not so much lately. For me, it has been disappointing.

And, if female athletes expect the same positive benefits that comes with competing on the same type stage, with males, then we don?t get to pull the gender card when we don?t like the negative side that comes with it, such as scrutiny and opinions. It is where the mental toughness should kick in.
And, yes, I can say that. I am female.

Some of the greatest mentally tough athletes I have ever witnessed were the 1980 USA hockey team. However you analyzed it, they were not given hardly a prayer of a chance against the always dominant Soviets. But they did because I am convinced they won it, in their minds, before they ever stepped in the ice. It was magical.

[Irondawg]

NFL QBs aren't the right analogy here. If a starting pitcher got roughed up in the first inning of Game 7 of the World Series and said "take me out, I don't have my stuff today," he's probably doing right by the team.

Biles's decision probably saved the US a silver medal. Had she continued to compete, we might've gotten bronze or nothing at all.

Maybe you're right, but when I watched the interview that's not really the vibe I got. My feeling is there's something else going on, which I do hate b/c she's a legend and this I'm guessing is her last big stage.

I'm not sure there is another great example of this as she's the superstar and there are plenty of stories of athletes having horrible warmups and then finding a way to perform in the moment. I have no idea and maybe it's just me, but I have to think there's a physical issue at play here as well that's not being mentioned that made her feel there was no way for her to be able to perform at the necessary level. This is pretty unprecedented as far as I know (Osaka again the only comparison I can come up with) which makes it hard to understand.

[Quaoarsking]

Disagree. If the GOAT, say a Greg Maddox or Randy Johnson, request to be taken out in game 7 due to being anxious and due to pressure, they would be crushed.

Probably so, but they may also still be doing the right thing by their team

[BiscuitEater]

Totally get it ... it's the 'ME' generation. It' NOT about being a team member! Simone Biles says her early exit from the women's gymnastics team final was for her mental health.

Stay home next time!

[StarkVegasSteve]

Whether if it's mental health or she has an injury, if she competes in the individual competition later this week then she's going to get some definite backlash.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

It?s fair to criticize her and say she let the team down. With that said, I hope she bounces back and dominates the ChiComs and Ruskies

[BiscuitEater]

It is 100% up to her. You have no idea what she is going through mentally or physically. That is why we have alternates to compete.

As team captain, why did she put herself in the 'team' competition, only to withdraw due to 'mental issues' (her words) if there were 'alternates' that wee willing to compete?

[Dawg2003]

Biles is the greatest female gymnast of all time with 5 Olympic medals from Rio. She had proven she is plenty mentally tough. To be doing it at 24 is also crazy. I don't know what's going on in her head or if she's injured, but she has nothing to prove. This was basically the send off of an already incredible career.

[bulldawg28]

Biles is the greatest female gymnast of all time with 5 Olympic medals from Rio. She had proven she is plenty mentally tough. To be doing it at 24 is also crazy. I don't know what's going on in her head or if she's injured, but she has nothing to prove. This was basically the send off of an already incredible career.

Great post! Champions aren't afraid to compete.

[BiscuitEater]

F*ck off Rex... you sad sack of sh!t


Please explain 'why' you don't ban yourself!

You would ban 'anyone' else that posted what you did!

[ScoobaDawg]

Please explain 'why' you don't ban yourself!

You would ban 'anyone' else that posted what you did!

https://media.giphy.com/media/R8J1B9VWFO0es/source.gif

LOL No I wouldn't..and you can't cite one example either.

[smootness]

This is an instance where nuance is quite valuable.

Simone Biles is the greatest gymnast of all time. To get to her level, you have to be extremely mentally tough, extremely physically tough, you have to have intense commitment and dedication to what you do, and you have to deal with pressure and the highest of stakes. She has done all that with aplomb and should be celebrated for it. This should not tarnish her legacy or anything she has already accomplished.

Today was a failure. I don't mean in any grand sense, but for the goal of competing in the Olympics, it was a failure. She doesn't owe me anything, and I'm not personally offended at her move. She is free to do as she chooses and she felt like she couldn't compete at her best today. That's fine. But part of what being an Olympic champion entails, as she well knows, is facing the pressure of the world's attention and years and years of training to culminate in one moment and overcoming it. She has done it with flying colors in the past but didn't do it today. She should be celebrated for doing it in the past, and I'm ok if she is criticized for not doing it today.

And then let's not make it more than it is. Like I said, it shouldn't tarnish her overall legacy, and it doesn't mean she's a quitter, etc. But it also shouldn't be celebrated. Today she let herself and her team down. It happens, and I wouldn't be surprised if she looks back on this down the road and actually wishes she had responded differently.

[FISHDAWG]

WOW... so you are in Her head and know what's going on?
Way to presume things.

I'm not so sure he's that far off base.... she's not just representing herself and her team .... she's representing the remaining three hundred million of us .... it's time to suck it up - that's what athletes do

[Todd4State]

This is an instance where nuance is quite valuable.

Simone Biles is the greatest gymnast of all time. To get to her level, you have to be extremely mentally tough, extremely physically tough, you have to have intense commitment and dedication to what you do, and you have to deal with pressure and the highest of stakes. She has done all that with aplomb and should be celebrated for it. This should not tarnish her legacy or anything she has already accomplished.

Today was a failure. I don't mean in any grand sense, but for the goal of competing in the Olympics, it was a failure. She doesn't owe me anything, and I'm not personally offended at her move. She is free to do as she chooses and she felt like she couldn't compete at her best today. That's fine. But part of what being an Olympic champion entails, as she well knows, is facing the pressure of the world's attention and years and years of training to culminate in one moment and overcoming it. She has done it with flying colors in the past but didn't do it today. She should be celebrated for doing it in the past, and I'm ok if she is criticized for not doing it today.

And then let's not make it more than it is. Like I said, it shouldn't tarnish her overall legacy, and it doesn't mean she's a quitter, etc. But it also shouldn't be celebrated. Today she let herself and her team down. It happens, and I wouldn't be surprised if she looks back on this down the road and actually wishes she had responded differently.

This is a good post.

[FISHDAWG]

Well good thing your opinion on this doesn't really matter. And I am sure you definitely meant to use the word "hiding". Like it is any of our business if she is.

And neither does yours or mine ... and hiding just might be the appropriate word... mental excuses work better because a doctor can't really point to anything.... and don't tell me that I don't know what's going on in her head because you would be right- but if it's that bad then why does she think she can compete in a few days or a week?

[FISHDAWG]

You are talking about apples and oranges here. My claim (right or wrong) is that this isn't the reason she didn't compete and was used as a safe cover.

I have no problem with athletes opening up about this stuff. But how many stories do we hear about guys throwing up before games? There have been whole sports movies where dealing with the pressure was the whole crux of the movie. Pressure/anxiety are part of sports and have been forever. It's nothing new and tons of athletes struggle with this and they should - it's high pressure stakes.

I don't see how Dak talking about it off-the field has anything to do with someone not competing in their biggest event because of it. When he sits out a playoff game or the Super Bowl b/c of it then we have a valid comparison.

He's a terrible poster and you just have to scroll past him or put him on your ignore list like I did .... bottom line is she went through competition to get her position on this team which meant someone else that didn't make the team could've competed..... she competed and won so she has an obligation to at least compete and TRY .... I remember in HS my senior year I tore up my shoulder with two games left ... I started and played both of those remaining games and then was operated on by putting a big pin in to pin my separated shoulder back together.... don't come at me with this mental crap because it's very difficult for some of us to accept

[Dawg2003]

She's been perfect up until this point in her career, so I think she'll be fine.

[Turfdawg67]

Wow! Just wow. Keep on being Mississippi people... Holy sh*t.

ETA... obviously not everyone on here.

[Saltydog]

Personally, I think she has the "yips". She felt she had the burden of the whole team on her shoulders and the pressure seems to have gotten to her. At least she knew it and bailed out so it wouldn't hurt her team anymore than it already had.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

Smootness summed it up. Case closed.

[Offshore Dawg]

I thought one of the announcers said it may be a type of vertigo where gymnastics lose track of where they are when tumbling or spinning.

[Lord McBuckethead]

As team captain, why did she put herself in the 'team' competition, only to withdraw due to 'mental issues' (her words) if there were 'alternates' that wee willing to compete?


They had/have an alternate.

[Lord McBuckethead]

And neither does yours or mine ... and hiding just might be the appropriate word... mental excuses work better because a doctor can't really point to anything.... and don't tell me that I don't know what's going on in her head because you would be right- but if it's that bad then why does she think she can compete in a few days or a week?

You are under the impression that a doctor's diagnosis is needed for her NOT to compete. Once again, you missed the point. It is 100% up to her whether she is going to compete. Whatever is going on with her, no one knows, it doesn't matter. At this point she feels as if competing is not in hers or her teams best interest. Who are we to question that?

[Lord McBuckethead]

He's a terrible poster and you just have to scroll past him or put him on your ignore list like I did .... bottom line is she went through competition to get her position on this team which meant someone else that didn't make the team could've competed..... she competed and won so she has an obligation to at least compete and TRY .... I remember in HS my senior year I tore up my shoulder with two games left ... I started and played both of those remaining games and then was operated on by putting a big pin in to pin my separated shoulder back together.... don't come at me with this mental crap because it's very difficult for some of us to accept

She isn't obligated to anything. They have an alternate, period. They have a contingency. IF someone else gets an injury or something, then it is time to discuss these things.

[Lord McBuckethead]

I agree. But none of us knows the circumstances of this withdraw. Does it suck, yes. Is she "Hiding" behind mental health.... no. Should it be celebrated, no. Should we come down like some self righteous asshats, no.

At the end of the day, our alternate had a shot to do stand up and fill in. That is why we have one.

[MetEdDawg]

For those that don't understand what mental health challenges are going on in this generation that's intermediate school to about 25, I implore you to do some research.

I deal with it almost every day at school. There are so many kids that don't know how to handle things and they are being exposed to much more than their brains can process. And it's affecting them in a very negative way.

Spend a week in a public school and figure out what's really going on with the health of our youth and young adults and you'll change your mind about how desperate this situation is if you don't already know. It's bad and getting worse.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

MetEdDawg?.in your opinion, what is the root cause? When did it start?

[Irondawg]

For those that don't understand what mental health challenges are going on in this generation that's intermediate school to about 25, I implore you to do some research.

I deal with it almost every day at school. There are so many kids that don't know how to handle things and they are being exposed to much more than their brains can process. And it's affecting them in a very negative way.

Spend a week in a public school and figure out what's really going on with the health of our youth and young adults and you'll change your mind about how desperate this situation is if you don't already know. It's bad and getting worse.

Genuine curiosity here as a parent of upper elementary and middle schoolers - like what kind of stuff/situations?

I'll repeat here what I said on another board:

There is a fine line here that's getting tough to decipher. If she's battling some form of Vertigo then than something physical and anything mental shouldn't even enter the conversation. If she's having a case of the yips (Steve Sax, Tin Cup, the catcher from major league 2) then it's mental but it's a certain kind of mental. If she just can't handle the stress of the situation suddenly for some reason then it's another thing.

I'm seeing a fair amount of post here and on FB about how important it is to listen to yourself do whatever you need to do to protect your mental well being. And how they are having those conversations with their kids. There is certainly some truth to that, but there is also a heck of a lot of danger in that as well so you have to be really, really careful. There is a huge world of difference between bordering on complete mental breakdown that has huge ramifications (self-harm, suicide, etc) and just not wanting to put effort in or be uncomfortable for a bit (throw things like divorce, quitting a job, not working out, not going to school, etc).

So we have to be really, really careful on how we approach this - especially when parenting kids. There is also huge value in fighting through some adversity and coming out the other side, even if you sometimes come out a little worse for wear. But there is also a true breaking point for everyone. Like most things in life there is no universal truth here.

...but what I see from the kids that struggle mentally more than others (at least in middle school) MOSTLY came from the parents that totally coddled those kids and gave them whatever they want growing up. They made the kids feel like they were in control of their world and then when they get in situations where they have no control, they have no idea how to handle it.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

There is more to this than meets the eye.....

[Lord McBuckethead]

Every generation believes the next generation is too coddled. And they are correct. Again, thanks Boomers.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Wow! Just wow. Keep on being Mississippi people... Holy sh*t.

ETA... obviously not everyone on here.

I am going to use this phrase from here on out, if you don't mind. At least 5 times a day on this site, some old "get off my lawn" self righteous douchebag starts one of these threads or chimes in on one of these threads. Whether it be against social issues in sports, binary sexual identities, black rights, women's rights, equality in general. In general, it is not something someone would say in a room full of strangers cause they know, deep down, they are being racist, a bigot, unpatriotic, whatever... They know it. So they come on here to spew utter nonsense. Sad thing is, there are tons of other posters that 100% agree.

Simone Biles has done nothing but represent our country with pride and in dominating fashion. Get off her back about it. I don't care about her reason, and neither should anyone else.

I have said this before and I will say this again, some of you and your younger members of your families will look back in 20 years and realize that you were on the wrong side of history time and time again. Mississippi, keep on Mississippi.

[Hot Rock]

http://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/31897392

Has to be an injury and she didn?t want to aggrevate it before going into the individual events is my guess. Which is fine but don?t make up a lame excuse when everyone knows you tweaked and ankle.

You don?t train endlessly for the Olympics and then just decide ?I don?t feel like it? on competition day. Especially when you are the best person on the team. Just says I was a little banged up and thought that steeping back gave the team the best chance to win and that it?s personally disappointing to not get to compete but unneeded to put the team first. That?s what you would have heard 10 years ago.

This is why I?m having trouble getting into the Olympics - too many athletes have soured me lately by their attitudes.


A pilot is not allowed to fly if he is having trouble concentrating. If there is even a hint you need Zoloft you are grounded even as a private pilot. I had my medical pulled for getting a prescription. I was dealing with my wife's death and my daughter's diagnosis of cancer of which she eventually succumbed. I was barely starting to fly with only about 100 hrs as a pilot and I gotten my medical pulled. I have not pursued it again because my last flight I got disoriented, I could not find the sky or the ground. I worked my way through it by looking at my gauges and flying as a IFR (Instrument)pilot even though I am only a VFR (Visual) pilot until I could get myself clear. That was dangerous as freak, so I am not flying anymore. That was all mental, I was in a mental fog and could not concentrate. My work suffered and so did everything else.

Gymnast are flying around and doing all kind of things that require complete concentration and if you can't concentrate properly it could be very dangerous. You do not want her out there if she can't get her mind cleared. Not only would she most likely fail, she could get hurt badly.

It was obvious to me from the very first time I saw here competing in the Olympics that she was struggling with something. When you are in a fog, you have no business doing dangerous things or stuff that require extreme concentration.

I applaud her for having the strength to say, "I have a problem." There have been definitions of this type of thing for centuries from shell shocked to post traumatic stress but I sincerely do not think she made this up. Mental issues are real and so many people don't understand it. As a society we have done a horrible job dealing with it over the years because there is a stigma to it that does not get associated with other issues.

This kind of thing has happened many times over the years but most say things like, it's time I hung it up. I am ready to retire or they lie and fake an injury. They won't say what's really going on. She did and some people can't handle the truth.

That's what I think.

But but but what if there was war and she quits. First of all, this ain't a war., it is a game, A GAME!

Secondly, it does happens in war and the outcome can be very bad for everyone involved. I have heard some horrific stories from my Father, he spent 3 tours and 2 1/2 years fighting hand to hand in the armored infantry in WWII. War is different, don't compare a game to war.

[Hot Rock]

By the way, my disorientation happened in Starkville as I was taking off going south and banking into a left pattern out of KSTF. I lost my ability to see outside my plane for about 30 seconds, seemed liked an eternity. I was only a few feet off the ground with obstructions looming. There is a tower south of the airport. I was afraid that I was headed right at it. I turned before I got there and I was plenty high but I didn't know where I was until I had leveled off and got my head clear. The mental fog is a real thing.

[MetEdDawg]

MetEdDawg?.in your opinion, what is the root cause? When did it start?

I'll answer you and IronDawg here. It's multi faceted really. And it's long. Sorry.

1) The amount of violence kids are exposed to now has numbed them to reality. It's one thing to own a gun or be exposed to guns and hunting as a kid. It's an entirely different animal when we have 7 year olds playing first person shooter games for 4-8 hours a day. And kids are being exposed to more adult content than ever before. The disciplines I see at middle and younger grades used to be high school only behavior. It's shocking what comes to us now and I am in a city that would not be one that you would expect to see situations like that.

2) Bullying. It's real folks. And there are too many parents out there that have no clue what their kids are doing/saying or deny it's an issue. I had a parent of a 7th grader ask me to change the discipline code for her student off bullying because she was afraid it would affect her getting in to Harvard in the future. Talk about completely detached from reality. And it's everywhere. It's written, verbal, on social media, through friends, etc. Bullying takes up a significant portion of my job almost every day.

3) Social media/personal technology. As a parent and an AP, I implore you to hold back cell phones and social media access for as long as you physically can. 10 year olds aren't responsible enough to have a cell phone and manage social media. They aren't. They use it in negative ways. I can't tell you how many parent conversations I've had where a child was bullied or participated in bullying on social media, but when I suggested taking away or limiting their child's social media access, they said that was unfair to their child.

4) Lack of understanding of how to form relationships (both parents and kids). I have parents of middle schoolers that will call me because they want me to tell a group of kids that they should be friends with their child. It baffles me that there are people out there that want an adult to force other students to be friends with their child. In middle school.

5) Overmedication. This is bad. Every kid has ADHD. Every kid has anxiety. Every kid needs a plan that includes extra time to do things. There are some kids that need medication. But the cocktails some students are on is dangerous.

6) Parents babying their kids. Some of these kids have never faced any adversity. Parents try to move the stumbling blocks instead of teach their kids how to deal with difficult circumstances. Have an issue with a kid? Move them out of class or pull them to remote learning. Having a tough day or not prepared for a test? Oh I'll just come check you out.

So there in a nut shell are some of the bigger concerns I see. The biggest problems we are seeing are that many of our students are experiencing three or more of these things simultaneously. And it's growing tepidly how many of these kids are having to see and face adult problems. Not enough problem solving skill development and too much rescuing.

[Irondawg]

I'll summarize my initial take again for clarity:

yesterday morning it came out that she was dealing with an injury and there was a chance she couldn't compete. The press conference was a bit odd and it looked to me like she was using the mental thing as a cover for an injury she didn't want to disclose (there could be numerous reason an athlete would do this - you don't want to judges looking for something extra or you don't want to make competitors think they can finally get you). Thus the initial reference to "hiding" b/c the press isn't going to press into mental health issues too much.

Many rumors know of a vertigo type thing and Hot Rock mentioned being in a fog - I define that more in a physical injury category. Anyone that's had a bout of vertigo or a bad inner ear infection wouldn't define that a a mental thing. It's not a sprained ankele or wrist or something that's easy to point to, but it's still a physical injury. I think the devil is in the details here. I don't think the presser, off which a lot of people (including me) based their opinion, was probably handled correctly. It gave the vibe that she "just wasn't feeling it" and decided not to compete since she clearly said there was no injury. That's what myself and some others just can't wrap my head around.

Who knows if we'll ever know what exactly the deal is, but had the story been that's she's suffering from some yet undiagnosed injury that is affecting her balance, then I don't think anybody would have said a word against her. Instead there would be nothing but sympathy from the sports world. Nobody wants to see someone train so hard for something and then not even be able to compete.

It's simply the difference of not being ABLE to compete and not CHOOSING to compete. Like the old are you injured or are you hurt football analogy. How each of us is viewing that question is the dividing line on the responses we've seen so far it appears and I'll freely admit that I might indeed be very wrong on my take on this situation if any additional facts come out.

[Offshore Dawg]

If you get to see the replay of her last vault the expression on her face did not appear to be one of confidence. To me she looked confused. Jmho

[Irondawg]

I'll answer you and IronDawg here. It's multi faceted really. And it's long. Sorry.

1) The amount of violence kids are exposed to now has numbed them to reality. It's one thing to own a gun or be exposed to guns and hunting as a kid. It's an entirely different animal when we have 7 year olds playing first person shooter games for 4-8 hours a day. And kids are being exposed to more adult content than ever before. The disciplines I see at middle and younger grades used to be high school only behavior. It's shocking what comes to us now and I am in a city that would not be one that you would expect to see situations like that.

2) Bullying. It's real folks. And there are too many parents out there that have no clue what their kids are doing/saying or deny it's an issue. I had a parent of a 7th grader ask me to change the discipline code for her student off bullying because she was afraid it would affect her getting in to Harvard in the future. Talk about completely detached from reality. And it's everywhere. It's written, verbal, on social media, through friends, etc. Bullying takes up a significant portion of my job almost every day.

3) Social media/personal technology. As a parent and an AP, I implore you to hold back cell phones and social media access for as long as you physically can. 10 year olds aren't responsible enough to have a cell phone and manage social media. They aren't. They use it in negative ways. I can't tell you how many parent conversations I've had where a child was bullied or participated in bullying on social media, but when I suggested taking away or limiting their child's social media access, they said that was unfair to their child.

4) Lack of understanding of how to form relationships (both parents and kids). I have parents of middle schoolers that will call me because they want me to tell a group of kids that they should be friends with their child. It baffles me that there are people out there that want an adult to force other students to be friends with their child. In middle school.

5) Overmedication. This is bad. Every kid has ADHD. Every kid has anxiety. Every kid needs a plan that includes extra time to do things. There are some kids that need medication. But the cocktails some students are on is dangerous.

6) Parents babying their kids. Some of these kids have never faced any adversity. Parents try to move the stumbling blocks instead of teach their kids how to deal with difficult circumstances. Have an issue with a kid? Move them out of class or pull them to remote learning. Having a tough day or not prepared for a test? Oh I'll just come check you out.

So there in a nut shell are some of the bigger concerns I see. The biggest problems we are seeing are that many of our students are experiencing three or more of these things simultaneously. And it's growing tepidly how many of these kids are having to see and face adult problems. Not enough problem solving skill development and too much rescuing.

Thanks. Is it fair to maybe say that most of these are the result of different parenting practices than in the past? Except maybe bullying since it's always existing, it's just in different forms now. Number 4 is a weird one now because kids just don't go play together much anymore so the social dynamics happen differently it seems. I'm not sure what to make of it or how to navigate it, especially with our 7th grade son.

Strange times for sure and I feel I'm constantly questioning our parenting tactics as we try to navigate this stuff as well.

[Extendedcab]

Every generation believes the next generation is too coddled. And they are correct. Again, thanks Boomers.

You have no idea of what it means to have a foundation that does not change with the winds of time; a foundation that is rooted in over 2000 years of judo-christian concepts and even from the beginning of this world. You say Boomers are the root of all of societies problems but it is not the Boomers (at least the ones that know where their salvation comes from) that are trying to change our foundation. It is YOU! YOU ARE THE PROBLEM! You are tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. You try to change times and laws. You are a natural man that receives not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto you; neither can you know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

In other words you are lost and you do not even know it!

Go ahead, spew on!

[R2Dawg]

I'll answer you and IronDawg here. It's multi faceted really. And it's long. Sorry.

1) The amount of violence kids are exposed to now has numbed them to reality. It's one thing to own a gun or be exposed to guns and hunting as a kid. It's an entirely different animal when we have 7 year olds playing first person shooter games for 4-8 hours a day. And kids are being exposed to more adult content than ever before. The disciplines I see at middle and younger grades used to be high school only behavior. It's shocking what comes to us now and I am in a city that would not be one that you would expect to see situations like that.

2) Bullying. It's real folks. And there are too many parents out there that have no clue what their kids are doing/saying or deny it's an issue. I had a parent of a 7th grader ask me to change the discipline code for her student off bullying because she was afraid it would affect her getting in to Harvard in the future. Talk about completely detached from reality. And it's everywhere. It's written, verbal, on social media, through friends, etc. Bullying takes up a significant portion of my job almost every day.

3) Social media/personal technology. As a parent and an AP, I implore you to hold back cell phones and social media access for as long as you physically can. 10 year olds aren't responsible enough to have a cell phone and manage social media. They aren't. They use it in negative ways. I can't tell you how many parent conversations I've had where a child was bullied or participated in bullying on social media, but when I suggested taking away or limiting their child's social media access, they said that was unfair to their child.

4) Lack of understanding of how to form relationships (both parents and kids). I have parents of middle schoolers that will call me because they want me to tell a group of kids that they should be friends with their child. It baffles me that there are people out there that want an adult to force other students to be friends with their child. In middle school.

5) Overmedication. This is bad. Every kid has ADHD. Every kid has anxiety. Every kid needs a plan that includes extra time to do things. There are some kids that need medication. But the cocktails some students are on is dangerous.

6) Parents babying their kids. Some of these kids have never faced any adversity. Parents try to move the stumbling blocks instead of teach their kids how to deal with difficult circumstances. Have an issue with a kid? Move them out of class or pull them to remote learning. Having a tough day or not prepared for a test? Oh I'll just come check you out.

So there in a nut shell are some of the bigger concerns I see. The biggest problems we are seeing are that many of our students are experiencing three or more of these things simultaneously. And it's growing tepidly how many of these kids are having to see and face adult problems. Not enough problem solving skill development and too much rescuing.

Good post. There are consequences for our poor choices in life and we are seeing that all over the place. Technology can be good but the overall damage to society in the end has been catastrophic. Bullying is happening now at all ages - as much from adults now as anyone but adults know better how to deal with it.

I held out on cell phones for my kids until they were in 8th grade. They were the last ones to get one in their class and they were crying from the social pressure. That is when I knew at the time was more damaging to them to not get them one. I wanted to wait until they were driving.

Covid extra pressure on these kids has been like child abuse. People don't care how many have mental problems or have committed suicide. Those things don't matter. Only that someone had or died from Covid. Covid has given people an excuse to abuse others and be self righteous. The Bible said thousands of years ago there would be times like these. Here me now, if you don't like things now you ain't gonna like them later.

[chef dixon]

You have no idea of what it means to have a foundation that does not change with the winds of time; a foundation that is rooted in over 2000 years of judo-christian concepts and even from the beginning of this world. You say Boomers are the root of all of societies problems but it is not the Boomers (at least the ones that know where their salvation comes from) that are trying to change our foundation. It is YOU! YOU ARE THE PROBLEM! You are tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. You try to change times and laws. You are a natural man that receives not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto you; neither can you know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

In other words you are lost and you do not even know it!

Go ahead, spew on!

Love a good Extendedcab diatribe

[R2Dawg]

You have no idea of what it means to have a foundation that does not change with the winds of time; a foundation that is rooted in over 2000 years of judo-christian concepts and even from the beginning of this world. You say Boomers are the root of all of societies problems but it is not the Boomers (at least the ones that know where their salvation comes from) that are trying to change our foundation. It is YOU! YOU ARE THE PROBLEM! You are tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. You try to change times and laws. You are a natural man that receives not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto you; neither can you know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

In other words you are lost and you do not even know it!

Go ahead, spew on!

Excellent post cab. The fallen world is the root of our problems. Salvation thru Christ and following God's plan is the only way out. We have a sin problem not a skin problem. For those not spiritually blind, it is plain as day.

[FISHDAWG]

She isn't obligated to anything. They have an alternate, period. They have a contingency. IF someone else gets an injury or something, then it is time to discuss these things.

so she competed for and won a spot on the team but isn't obligated to compete for her team and country ? Horseshit !!! I wished someone else had beaten her out - that someone else would have competed I'm sure

[Dawg2003]

A pilot is not allowed to fly if he is having trouble concentrating. If there is even a hint you need Zoloft you are grounded even as a private pilot. I had my medical pulled for getting a prescription. I was dealing with my wife's death and my daughter's diagnosis of cancer of which she eventually succumbed. I was barely starting to fly with only about 100 hrs as a pilot and I gotten my medical pulled. I have not pursued it again because my last flight I got disoriented, I could not find the sky or the ground. I worked my way through it by looking at my gauges and flying as a IFR (Instrument)pilot even though I am only a VFR (Visual) pilot until I could get myself clear. That was dangerous as freak, so I am not flying anymore. That was all mental, I was in a mental fog and could not concentrate. My work suffered and so did everything else.

Gymnast are flying around and doing all kind of things that require complete concentration and if you can't concentrate properly it could be very dangerous. You do not want her out there if she can't get her mind cleared. Not only would she most likely fail, she could get hurt badly.

It was obvious to me from the very first time I saw here competing in the Olympics that she was struggling with something. When you are in a fog, you have no business doing dangerous things or stuff that require extreme concentration.

I applaud her for having the strength to say, "I have a problem." There have been definitions of this type of thing for centuries from shell shocked to post traumatic stress but I sincerely do not think she made this up. Mental issues are real and so many people don't understand it. As a society we have done a horrible job dealing with it over the years because there is a stigma to it that does not get associated with other issues.

This kind of thing has happened many times over the years but most say things like, it's time I hung it up. I am ready to retire or they lie and fake an injury. They won't say what's really going on. She did and some people can't handle the truth.

That's what I think.

But but but what if there was war and she quits. First of all, this ain't a war., it is a game, A GAME!

Secondly, it does happens in war and the outcome can be very bad for everyone involved. I have heard some horrific stories from my Father, he spent 3 tours and 2 1/2 years fighting hand to hand in the armored infantry in WWII. War is different, don't compare a game to war.

Something was off with her watching those warmups. Gymnastics can be dangerous, and there is a dark side to the sport where athletes are pushed to keep doing more dangerous tricks or do stuff when injured. This is all well documented over the decades. There was a Russian gymnast, decades ago, that was paralyzed because she was pushed by her coach to do some crazy trick that only men do. There have been countless gymnasts that have come out and said their coaches were abusive or they were forced to perform injured. Also, the sex abuse scandal that went on for years.She was abused by Nassar, and we don't know what that has done to her mentally or if she's processed it.

I mostly find the discourse surrounding Biles dumb because she has accomplished all she needs to and has nothing to prove at this point. It's just a dumb conversation to say she's weak, not mentally tough, ect. She's proved she's all of those things a million times over. I hope she retires after this and lives a great life.

[Dawg_Lover]

To those whom have given intelligent, thought-provoking comments, thank you. You are a breath of fresh air.

Then, there is the other side of the coin, where the vitriol makes it difficult to maintain a sense of decency.

It is ironic that I now need a mental break from this forum.

[BrunswickDawg]

I'll answer you and IronDawg here. It's multi faceted really. And it's long. Sorry.

1) The amount of violence kids are exposed to now has numbed them to reality. It's one thing to own a gun or be exposed to guns and hunting as a kid. It's an entirely different animal when we have 7 year olds playing first person shooter games for 4-8 hours a day. And kids are being exposed to more adult content than ever before. The disciplines I see at middle and younger grades used to be high school only behavior. It's shocking what comes to us now and I am in a city that would not be one that you would expect to see situations like that.

2) Bullying. It's real folks. And there are too many parents out there that have no clue what their kids are doing/saying or deny it's an issue. I had a parent of a 7th grader ask me to change the discipline code for her student off bullying because she was afraid it would affect her getting in to Harvard in the future. Talk about completely detached from reality. And it's everywhere. It's written, verbal, on social media, through friends, etc. Bullying takes up a significant portion of my job almost every day.

3) Social media/personal technology. As a parent and an AP, I implore you to hold back cell phones and social media access for as long as you physically can. 10 year olds aren't responsible enough to have a cell phone and manage social media. They aren't. They use it in negative ways. I can't tell you how many parent conversations I've had where a child was bullied or participated in bullying on social media, but when I suggested taking away or limiting their child's social media access, they said that was unfair to their child.

4) Lack of understanding of how to form relationships (both parents and kids). I have parents of middle schoolers that will call me because they want me to tell a group of kids that they should be friends with their child. It baffles me that there are people out there that want an adult to force other students to be friends with their child. In middle school.

5) Overmedication. This is bad. Every kid has ADHD. Every kid has anxiety. Every kid needs a plan that includes extra time to do things. There are some kids that need medication. But the cocktails some students are on is dangerous.

6) Parents babying their kids. Some of these kids have never faced any adversity. Parents try to move the stumbling blocks instead of teach their kids how to deal with difficult circumstances. Have an issue with a kid? Move them out of class or pull them to remote learning. Having a tough day or not prepared for a test? Oh I'll just come check you out.

So there in a nut shell are some of the bigger concerns I see. The biggest problems we are seeing are that many of our students are experiencing three or more of these things simultaneously. And it's growing tepidly how many of these kids are having to see and face adult problems. Not enough problem solving skill development and too much rescuing.

Met - this is some good stuff. My kids are now 22 and 20, and my oldest has diagnosed problems with anxiety and depression, most of which manifested itself more in college then in high school. It's just flat out tough these days. I'd like to say that we have been good parents and built a solid foundation for both of them, but it hasn't been easy. Each one of the things you point out are items we had to stay on top of and engaged in.

Something else I would point out are the external pressures to excel and have your life mapped out by the time you are 12. If you aren't in travel ball by 12, you won't be able to make your Middle School team. Dance or cheer? You have to be in an expensive Company spending thousands and competing across the SE or you won't be any good. Want to get into UGA? You have to have multiple extra curriculars, create a non-profit to impact your community, start new inclusive program at your high school, and make a 1450 on the SAT with a 4.2 GPA from all the AP or IB classed your took, and know that you want to take your Degree in Biology, go to grad school at XXX, then come back to the Georgia coast and work a $28,000 a year job with a non-profit studying the impact of snails on salt marsh degradation. No way I could have handled that pressure, nor would I have had the ability to map all that out at 12 or 13. I barely figured it out at 22 in grad school.

I know a lot of people have negative opinions on todays kids - but the impact of this hype-competitive approach has many kids equating not achieving at those levels as failure. That is an incredibly difficult process to deal with as a parent and it creates an enormous amount of anxiety with kids.

[Hot Rock]

so she competed for and won a spot on the team but isn't obligated to compete for her team and country ? Horseshit !!! I wished someone else had beaten her out - that someone else would have competed I'm sure

Until you have to deal with things that cloud your mind, you may never get it. I won't judge her poorly because I have been there. Sometimes I am still unable to concentrate and it's been over 2 years since my daughters passing and 13 since my wife passed. You can't just turn it off. Sure, I have good days but then something triggers me and I have no idea why.

I do not know Simone's situation. I just know she could have lied and faked an injury and gotten fewer critics. I have no doubt many have lied that were in her situation just to save face. So, yeah, I think more of her as an individual for pulling out and saying why rather than lying and saying she was injured. I wish I could have seen her go and dominate for multiple Golds but it is just a dang game. My life won't change over who wins those medals.

[Offshore Dawg]

You could look at it this way Simon gave her spot to the alternate because she felt she was not at her best and the alternate would give the team a better chance to medal.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

I am going to use this phrase from here on out, if you don't mind. At least 5 times a day on this site, some old "get off my lawn" self righteous douchebag starts one of these threads or chimes in on one of these threads. Whether it be against social issues in sports, binary sexual identities, black rights, women's rights, equality in general. In general, it is not something someone would say in a room full of strangers cause they know, deep down, they are being racist, a bigot, unpatriotic, whatever... They know it. So they come on here to spew utter nonsense. Sad thing is, there are tons of other posters that 100% agree.

I have said this before and I will say this again, some of you and your younger members of your families will look back in 20 years and realize that you were on the wrong side of history time and time again. Mississippi, keep on Mississippi.

Lol why are you so worried about what other people think about you? Just do right and good and you don't have to worry about it. I don't care what anyone does, but **** you and anyone else who says I must celebrate social things I don't believe in.

How do we measure equality? What metrics are we using? How do we know when we are all equal? Maybe when we get more equal we can have more diversity on the men's basketball team.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

Lee steps up and wins all around Gold for US. Nice job!

[Lord McBuckethead]

Lol why are you so worried about what other people think about you? Just do right and good and you don't have to worry about it. I don't care what anyone does, but **** you and anyone else who says I must celebrate social things I don't believe in.

How do we measure equality? What metrics are we using? How do we know when we are all equal? Maybe when we get more equal we can have more diversity on the men's basketball team.

That's cool man. Equality is equality. I will say, comments will be challenged from here on out. Just as if I heard someone talking trash in public.

[Lord McBuckethead]

You could look at it this way Simon gave her spot to the alternate because she felt she was not at her best and the alternate would give the team a better chance to medal.

Well yeah, that is exactly what happened. Heartburn over her stepping aside was and is short sighted.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Does anyone have a gif of the "Jump to Conclusion" mat from office space? OP needs it.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

That's cool man. Equality is equality. I will say, comments will be challenged from here on out. Just as if I heard someone talking trash in public.

If equality is equality then freedom is freedom.

[Irondawg]

It?s a sports message board and we dialogue based on the information we have at the moment and what we had at the moment was the indication of ankle injury and the presser.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/simone-biles-olympic-withdrawal-11627473098

This article lays it out a ton better. The presser didn?t do her favors in my opinion. She basically got the yips, the shanks, whatever you want to call it. Nobody wants to see anybody get hurt and they could have explained that much better in the press conference.

All that said, congrats to Suni for winning the gold and I do hate that Simone?s career might end like this. Maybe she gets it together for the individual events and can perform at her best one last time.

[R2Dawg]

Well yeah, that is exactly what happened. Heartburn over her stepping aside was and is short sighted.

Maybe, maybe not. If you are not your best the time to step aside and let someone else represent is at the trials, not the finals. Now if injury or something else happened which she can't control afterwards so be it but she said was no injury.

She is the one that put the GOAT on her arm; no one made her do that. If you gonna be the GOAT and you are on the team and not injured - you compete, win or lose.

[BB30]

That's cool man. Equality is equality. I will say, comments will be challenged from here on out. Just as if I heard someone talking trash in public.

So by your metrics what do you consider to be "racist", bigoted, transphobic? Because all I am hearing from the left right now is follow the science when it comes to covid but if anyone points out that there is in fact a difference between a biological male and female when it comes to competing in sports which is rooted in scientific fact I am told that is a bigoted statement.

So if in fact you see a statement like that and consider it bigoted you sir are the one with an issue if we are supposed to "follow the science". All of the picking and choosing where we follow the science etc. is what is so dumb about all of this. You have the now sitting VP stating she wouldn't trust a vaccine while trump was in office before she was elected and is now stating everyone needs the vaccine(which is the same exact vaccine that was being worked on while Trump was in office), there is no difference in the vaccine before and after, just what was politically good for her at that moment and we wonder why people are hesitant of the vaccine. The least vaccinated group in our country is African Americans and the media is pushing the Tuskegee experiments as the reason, surely it has nothing to do with the fact that a black woman running for VP was publicly stating she wouldn't trust the vaccine before she was in office and is now stating that everyone needs it.

Now if someone were making a hateful statement about Trans people I could see where you could consider that offensive or bigoted IE " I hate so and so group of people". But simply making a scientifically true statement isn't bigoted and never will be no matter how bad you want it to be that way and shouting and pitching a fit isn't going to change any logically thinking person's mind.

[BrunswickDawg]

Maybe, maybe not. If you are not your best the time to step aside and let someone else represent is at the trials, not the finals. Now if injury or something else happened which she can't control afterwards so be it but she said was no injury.

She is the one that put the GOAT on her arm; no one made her do that. If you gonna be the GOAT and you are on the team and not injured - you compete, win or lose.

So she was supposed to know a month ago that on the day of team competition she would have a mental issue that caused her to feel like if she continued she would probably injure herself badly and ruin the team's chances of medaling?

[NCMSTFAN]

Lol why are you so worried about what other people think about you? Just do right and good and you don't have to worry about it. I don't care what anyone does, but **** you and anyone else who says I must celebrate social things I don't believe in.

How do we measure equality? What metrics are we using? How do we know when we are all equal? Maybe when we get more equal we can have more diversity on the men's basketball team.

Players or coaches? What are you implying here?

[NCMSTFAN]

I am going to use this phrase from here on out, if you don't mind. At least 5 times a day on this site, some old "get off my lawn" self righteous douchebag starts one of these threads or chimes in on one of these threads. Whether it be against social issues in sports, binary sexual identities, black rights, women's rights, equality in general. In general, it is not something someone would say in a room full of strangers cause they know, deep down, they are being racist, a bigot, unpatriotic, whatever... They know it. So they come on here to spew utter nonsense. Sad thing is, there are tons of other posters that 100% agree.

Simone Biles has done nothing but represent our country with pride and in dominating fashion. Get off her back about it. I don't care about her reason, and neither should anyone else.

I have said this before and I will say this again, some of you and your younger members of your families will look back in 20 years and realize that you were on the wrong side of history time and time again. Mississippi, keep on Mississippi.

Great point, I agree 100%

[Lord McBuckethead]

If equality is equality then freedom is freedom.

Absolutely. So if you understand that, then working hard for equality, mutual respect, dignity, and freedom shouldn't be an issue.

[Lord McBuckethead]

So she was supposed to know a month ago that on the day of team competition she would have a mental issue that caused her to feel like if she continued she would probably injure herself badly and ruin the team's chances of medaling?

Dude, don't bring facts and actual timeline of events into this argument.
Some on here don't understand that situations change.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Players or coaches? What are you implying here?

They are not implying anything, I think he is outright stating it.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

I think the disagreements on here come from how it was received. If the narrative were, ?That?s a shame and unfortunate that she couldn?t overcome it. Who will step up and help us win?? Instead of, ?Biles is so brave?we are with you! Great job!? I think that?s where the disagreements come from. Some see it as propping up quitting. I think smootness said it best?it was a failure on THIS day. Move on and Simone is one of the GOATS

[Lord McBuckethead]

So anyone want to walk back their comments about Simone Biles now? Anyone?
She suddenly was inflicted with a case of the Twisties. A mental issue known to exist in 100s of cases in the gymnastics world that has led to absolutely life threatening injuries due to the loss of spatial awareness and loss of muscle memory when doing twisting flipping motions.

Some conditions last momentarily, others the athlete has to relearn how to twist in the air akin to a toddler having to learn to walk over again.

"Hiding" behind this illness, what a pu$$y non-team member, right guys?

[Irondawg]

I already explained the ?hiding? in the title and in multiple other posts but you won?t let it go because you feel the need to win some hypothetical moral war.

There is a difference between the twisties, the yips, etc as it?s something that is manifesting itself physically such as loss of balance vs just quitting because you feel like it.

Go back and watch the presser and tell me how you were supposed to arrive at a physical condition? That?s why I thought she was covering for something else going on. If she had just said she developed the twisties and couldn?t compete this thread would have a totally different tone.

But if you just took her exact words and put it in any other sporting context, the most common immediate reaction is ?what the heck??. The PR team failed her a bit in the presser.

Now if your stance is that you should never criticize and athlete or coach for a decision because you don?t know what?s going on their head at any moment, that?s fine. However I would advise that a sports message board isn?t the best place for you to hang out. Most threads are about questioning the decisions and rationales made by players, coaches, etc.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I already explained the ?hiding? in the title and in multiple other posts but you won?t let it go because you feel the need to win some hypothetical moral war.

There is a difference between the twisties, the yips, etc as it?s something that is manifesting itself physically such as loss of balance vs just quitting because you feel like it.

Go back and watch the presser and tell me how you were supposed to arrive at a physical condition? That?s why I thought she was covering for something else going on. If she had just said she developed the twisties and couldn?t compete this thread would have a totally different tone.

But if you just took her exact words and put it in any other sporting context, the most common immediate reaction is ?what the heck??. The PR team failed her a bit in the presser.

Now if your stance is that you should never criticize and athlete or coach for a decision because you don?t know what?s going on their head at any moment, that?s fine. However I would advise that a sports message board isn?t the best place for you to hang out. Most threads are about questioning the decisions and rationales made by players, coaches, etc.

We had multiple threads this football season wondering if our secondary's head was up their ass or whether or not Costello had the yips.....I don't remember either of those threads ending with someone calling out fans for their opinions on the matter. I'm pretty sure most involving Costello were the exact opposite.

[BiscuitEater]

They had/have an alternate.

Okay, But, you didn't answer the question ...

As team captain, why did she put herself in the 'team' competition, only to withdraw due to 'mental issues' (her words) if there were 'alternates' that were willing to compete?

[BB30]

Okay, But, you didn't answer the question ...

As team captain, why did she put herself in the 'team' competition, only to withdraw due to 'mental issues' (her words) if there were 'alternates' that were willing to compete?



You won't get an answer because he wants a "gotcha" moment so bad. This all would have been a non issue had they just come out and stated what it was at the presser. He also won't answer why this is different from a male athlete doing the same thing the night before a big game and how he would respond.

He will call it a whataboutism because he knows he sets different standards for different demographics. If it fits his liberal worldview he will take one stance and if it pushes against that worldview he will deflect with "whataboutism" and or just call you a racist or a bigot. It is a win win for him in his mind.

Facts mean nothing unless they are slanted a certain left leaning way. If the facts back a right leaning way we all of the sudden no longer have to "follow the science" etc.

[Dawgology]

I've never been a gymnist nor have I ever played pro sports. But in highschool I never quit on my team because I had pride in myself and wanted to support the team I chose to be a part of.

I couldn't imagine walking out on my team in the middle of a competition. Especially when I was chosen to represent my country and accepted that responsibility.

Unfortunately, with GenZ, life is a stage that is often too big for them.

[R2Dawg]

u
So she was supposed to know a month ago that on the day of team competition she would have a mental issue that caused her to feel like if she continued she would probably injure herself badly and ruin the team's chances of medaling?

Dude they got doctors and all kinds of evaluators for this. A mental problem doesn't just usually come up overnight like a spider bite. Maybe it was there and someone made some bad decisions, I don't know but don't look good. ​

If she has legit issues I hope she gets help but this ain't normal to get a diagnosis like that right before this kind of event. If she is GOAT, you compete. Can you imagine MJ just opting out in finals because he had mental stress over personal issues? Dude he had plenty. That is why MJ is GOAT.

[BrunswickDawg]

u

Dude they got doctors and all kinds of evaluators for this. A mental problem doesn't just usually come up overnight like a spider bite. Maybe it was there and someone made some bad decisions, I don't know but don't look good. ​

If she has legit issues I hope she gets help but this ain't normal to get a diagnosis like that right before this kind of event. If she is GOAT, you compete. Can you imagine MJ just opting out in finals because he had mental stress over personal issues? Dude he had plenty. That is why MJ is GOAT.

MJ freaking quit basketball at his peak because of mental stuff (burn out, grief, etc)

He also didn't compete in a sport that if he was off his game mentally he could wind up paralyzed..

[Liverpooldawg]

Bottom line.....she quit on her team DURING the biggest competition in the sport. She let her teamates down at the worst possible time. She is no hero. You can sympathize with her sure, but celebrate what she did........HECK NO.

[basedog]

MJ freaking quit basketball at his peak because of mental stuff (burn out, grief, etc)

He also didn't compete in a sport that if he was off his game mentally he could wind up paralyzed..

Bruns my man, not gonna say it isn’t true, but MJ had a major problem with the GM. That was the reason he tried baseball. Back in those days I was into NBA, MJ, Magic and Bird made it fun to watch.

[Dawg2003]

In the initial press conference, she said she had the twistes, which causes you to loose spatial awareness. Something was definitely off during the preliminaries and warm ups. She was landing crooked and fell way out of bounds.

[Hot Rock]

Bottom line.....she quit on her team DURING the biggest competition in the sport. She let her teamates down at the worst possible time. She is no hero. You can sympathize with her sure, but celebrate what she did........HECK NO.

The problem with this line of thinking is that you don't believe there was a real problem. She was having an issue called the twists. It's when a person gets disoriented and cannot tell up from down and they lose track of where they are. It happens to gymnast and when it does, they usually retire or try and push through it and get injured sometimes very badly. I did not want her out there risking her life over a dang medal myself. This was not her just quitting her team. She was unable to perform, the only thing workng for her was that she is the greatest gymnast to ever live or most likely she would have been injured already trying to push through.

I believe her. Why? I have had a similar thing happen to me while flying a plane. I was banking out during take off of a small private plane and lost me ability to find the ground or sky for about 30 seconds. I don't fly anymore. That was my last flight as pilot in command. There was another pilot in the plane that day, but I never relinquished controls. I have no idea why. I just pushed through and could have killed us. I was only a few feet off the ground and started banking into a left pattern which takes you toward aa tower south of KSTF airport. I was plenty high and turned before I got to it, but I didn't know that until I got my orientation back.

I do think more of her for saying the truth. She easily could have faked an injury and pulled out. You see, that's what people have done in the past to avoid this mental health stigma. They say they are hurt but in reality they lost it mentally. It happens for various reasons.

Yes, I am disappointed she was unable to perform but I would bet not nearly as much as she was. I know I want to fly again, but I won't.

[Dawg2003]

There's really no reason not to believe her. She's never done anything like this before and has performed under the highest pressure and most stress time and time again.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Okay, But, you didn't answer the question ...

As team captain, why did she put herself in the 'team' competition, only to withdraw due to 'mental issues' (her words) if there were 'alternates' that were willing to compete?



Because she already qualified and then the issue started. Seems pretty straight forward.

[Lord McBuckethead]

In the initial press conference, she said she had the twistes, which causes you to loose spatial awareness. Something was definitely off during the preliminaries and warm ups. She was landing crooked and fell way out of bounds.

You can't argue using facts that rely on an actual timeline of events.

[Lord McBuckethead]

MJ freaking quit basketball at his peak because of mental stuff (burn out, grief, etc)

He also didn't compete in a sport that if he was off his game mentally he could wind up paralyzed..

Again, people in this thread arguing against Biles cannot be persuaded they are wrong. Regardless of overwhelming evidence.

[R2Dawg]

MJ freaking quit basketball at his peak because of mental stuff (burn out, grief, etc)

He also didn't compete in a sport that if he was off his game mentally he could wind up paralyzed..

Discernment, brother. It can really help in life.

MJ never quit in middle of season. Same respect I'd have for her if she withdrew in trials.

[R2Dawg]

Because she already qualified and then the issue started. Seems pretty straight forward.

Again you don't catch mental illness like Covid - fine one day, sick the next. Those things build. That would have been known way before right before competition. Again, I have compassion for her in her problems. It just was not handled very good. You ask for it when you proclaim yourself GOAT.