2nd hand from the Admin

[Coach34]

Unless we get beat 45-0 on Thanksgiving- Mullen back for 2014.

[CadaverDawg]

Well, even more reason to pull for history to be made this weekend.

[HoopsDawg]

Unless we get beat 45-0 on Thanksgiving- Mullen back for 2014.

That makes no sense at all. If we lose by 28+ to Bama, lose to Arkansas even by 1 point, and lose to Ole Miss by 14 at home, how do you bring him back? Especially the way he handles his staff and recruits.

[SoJackDog]

Hoops, none of that will happen. Well, after Bama anyway.

[Coach34]

It was told to me the Admin is happy overall with the football program, knows the team was young in spots this year, had some key injuries, and feels like Mullen will have them back in a good bowl next season.

[HoopsDawg]

It was told to me the Admin is happy overall with the football program, knows the team was young in spots this year, had some key injuries, and feels like Mullen will have them back in a good bowl next season.

This same info was given to me, but it was about 3 weeks ago. I think a lot of people's feelings are starting to change. If we lose our last 3, we will make a change.

[engie]

5-13 at MSU = "good enough" "happy" etc...

Where were we "young"?

[gravedigger]

Sounds to me like we would keep him either way. Not saying you are lying, but if we lost the next 3 and played uninspired in the egg bowl , no matter what the score, the admin would have a difficult time fighting off the non admin decision makers.

[Coach34]

Just relaying the message

[HoopsDawg]

Just relaying the message

that's fine, it's just a dated message. if we lose our last 3, he is gone and he knows he should be.

[justwin]

Unless we get beat 45-0 on Thanksgiving- Mullen back for 2014.

Well, the admin needs to go out and hire Mullen an equivalent offensive counterpart to run the offense. the way I see it, I don't see any of the offensive coaches contributing/challenging Mullen in planning/meetings, etc. If they were, then Perkins wouldn't be carrying the ball as often.

[CadaverDawg]

So our Admin is admitting that they're cool with mediocre.

That sucks. Hopefully he will at least fire himself as Special Teams coach and maybe hire an OC to help delegate some duties too. Keep Les as QB coach if you want too, but hire a young mind that can take some of the offensive responsibilities.

If this is true, it's disappointing to know that we could lose out by 30 points per game and our Admin will already have made up their mind. (For some reason I am not 100% buying it though)

[bully99]

The media and everybody close to the program have been saying this for weeks. They said no matter what happened the rest of the year, Mullen was coming back. It lead me to believe that Stricklan told them off the record. Never seen a guy on the hotseat where everyone said he was not gonna be fired.

[Coach34]

it's just a dated message.

nothing dated about it- this was a conversation at the Hump about 2 hours ago

[slickdawg]

2009 - Installing zone read, end strong with egg bowl win, Ralf emerges
2010 - Ralf has solid year, 9 wins, finish 9-4
2011 - Ralf gets hurt at Auburn, zone read being run by pocket passer, tried to adjust offense midseason, mistake #1, finish 7-6
2012 - Installed Tyler offense, start 7-0, finish 1-5. Defense porous, offense not smooth, Tyler hangs on to the ball. finish 8-5
2013 - Continue Tyler offense, Tyler gets hurt in game 1, zone read QB Dak comes in having not practiced all spring, tried to adjust offense midseason, same problem as 2011.

The continuing theme here is that Dan needs a dual threat QB to run his offense. He tried to adjust for Tyler like he did Alex Smith. The only problem is Alex Smith can run, Tyler cannot. As coach said, he looks like a wounded giraffe trying to run.

We have Damien, a dual threat QB, and two more coming in Fitz and Staley. Dan has seen the light. I expect he will be back regardless.

[HoopsDawg]

The media and everybody close to the program have been saying this for weeks. They said no matter what happened the rest of the year, Mullen was coming back. It lead me to believe that Stricklan told them off the record. Never seen a guy on the hotseat where everyone said he was not gonna be fired.

It's better for the program if no one thinks Mullen is on the hotseat. You don't want that to become a daily topic. If Mullen loses the lockeroom, we will lose to Arkansas. And then there's no way we are beating Ole Miss.

[HoopsDawg]

nothing dated about it- this was a conversation at the Hump about 2 hours ago

If I'm Stricklin, I say the same thing.

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

This makes me believe there is not nearly enough for the buyout. Which makes me believe there is not enough donors, specifically big donors, who are ready for a change. Either that or Scott Stricklin is coontrairian enough to bet his entire career on Mullen.

[HunterDawg]

The media and everybody close to the program have been saying this for weeks. They said no matter what happened the rest of the year, Mullen was coming back. It lead me to believe that Stricklan told them off the record. Never seen a guy on the hotseat where everyone said he was not gonna be fired.

Hard to say. Could be legit. Could be the dreaded Vote of Confidence.

[maroonmania]

that's fine, it's just a dated message. if we lose our last 3, he is gone and he knows he should be.

I would not expect ANY other message at this stage. An administration is ALWAYS going to back the current coach until they don't. Mullen has every chance to end well enough to not only have the administration's support going into next year but also a large percentage of the fanbase. An administration would give NO other message other than what C34 is hearing unless everything was a lost cause which obviously this isn't.

[Madkinmecrazy]

Not surprising. Firing Mullen after a down year wouldn't exactly make Starkville an appealing place for a coach to come.

[Coach34]

I would not expect ANY other message at this stage. An administration is ALWAYS going to back the current coach until they don't. Mullen has every chance to end well enough to not only have the administration's support going into next year but also a large percentage of the fanbase. An administration would give NO other message other than what C34 is hearing unless everything was a lost cause which obviously this isn't.

This was not a "partyline" conversation...this was a "we're not ****ing firing him" conversation

[maroonmania]

This was not a "partyline" conversation...this was a "we're not ****ing firing him" conversation

We may not fire him regardless but if we go 4-8 this year after the way we finished last year and don't make a change its going to be a rough year to open up a new, enlarged stadium. To be honest if we aren't going to bring in Hud I'd rather not make a change right now anyway. Most anybody else we could bring in would just be an experiment both in how they would perform as a HC and in how they could recruit MS.

[Original48]

Well, the admin needs to go out and hire Mullen an equivalent offensive counterpart to run the offense. the way I see it, I don't see any of the offensive coaches contributing/challenging Mullen in planning/meetings, etc. If they were, then Perkins wouldn't be carrying the ball as often.
Boy isn't this the truth. Tyler with a lone back Perkins equals waste of everyone's time. How Dan refuses to see this is beyond me.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

Unless we get beat 45-0 on Thanksgiving- Mullen back for 2014.

That's not what I heard from my 2nd hand source. Mine told me we have to beat Ole Miss 45-0

[HoopsDawg]

We may not fire him regardless but if we go 4-8 this year after the way we finished last year and don't make a change its going to be a rough year to open up a new, enlarged stadium. To be honest if we aren't going to bring in Hud I'd rather not make a change right now anyway. Most anybody else we could bring in would just be an experiment both in how they would perform as a HC and in how they could recruit MS.

Right. New stadium, new uniforms, new coach if that Coach is Hud, and a new start. Hud would have a nice foundation, great schedule, and a heck of a QB for his offense in Dak. And we would only be in danger of losing 1 or 2 recruits at the most. I really doubt we would lose any.

If we bring Mullen back, he will do fine next year. And then the mindless sheep will say "thank goodness we didn't fire mullen". But we will have missed our chance on Hud and our trajectory will be flat to down.

My disclaimer is that all of this is based on us finishing 0-3 which I would say is about a 50/50 proposition.

[Coach34]

Hud is not an option at this point. All signs are pointing to him headed somewhere already- thats what led to the "we're not ****ing firing him" response...lol

[HoopsDawg]

Hud is not an option at this point. All signs are pointing to him headed somewhere already- thats what led to the "we're not ****ing firing him" response...lol

Where?

[Coach34]

Where?

Nobody seems to have the answer yet- just speculation

[HoopsDawg]

Nobody seems to have the answer yet- just speculation

We can get him. There is not a better job out there for Hud.

[whosyourdawgy]

Dude. Good Lord. You want this too bad. Get off the computer, go out and get a taco or something and some fresh air. Dan Mullen is gonna be our coach next year no matter how many times you freaking type it on this message board. It's obvious you despise his ass but you ain't helping shit with concern to our football program with all this BS. At some point you need to realize this.

[HunterDawg]

If the rumors about Sumlin leaving are true, there could be dominos falling all over the place. Who knows what will open up. Hud may just keep his powder dry and wait and see what develops. We can't wait like that. If we don't have him locked up by Thanksgiving, we will probably not make a move this year. Thanksgiving is two weeks from today.

[HoopsDawg]

If the rumors about Sumlin leaving are true, there could be dominos falling all over the place. Who knows what will open up. Hud may just keep his powder dry and wait and see what develops. We can't wait like that. If we don't have him locked up by Thanksgiving, we will probably not make a move this year. Thanksgiving is two weeks from today.

I don't see Sumlin leaving A&M. They can pay him whatever he wants. Hud would take the MSU job if offered. Hud needs to remain in the south. There will be no SEC jobs to take nor any other jobs that offer what MSU can offer Hud. I think we've got a real chance to upgrade here, I hope our administration has the foresight and the fortitude to make the move if necessary. I still hope Mullen can get it together and pull off the Egg Bowl upset, but I really don't see it happening.

[Madkinmecrazy]

If the rumors about Sumlin leaving are true, there could be dominos falling all over the place. Who knows what will open up. Hud may just keep his powder dry and wait and see what develops. We can't wait like that. If we don't have him locked up by Thanksgiving, we will probably not make a move this year. Thanksgiving is two weeks from today.

Just so you'll know, we won't have him locked up by Thanksgiving, and we won't make a move this year.

This Hud obsession will come and go, and we'lll play another football season with Mullen next year. That will be the year where Mullen's fate is decided.

[engie]

Speculation on top of speculation...

I'm not getting into this debate anymore -- but there hasn't been a damn thing "already decided" midseason...

[bluelightstar]

And if it has, the whole Bryan Building needs to be fired.

[HunterDawg]

I don't see Sumlin leaving A&M. They can pay him whatever he wants. Hud would take the MSU job if offered. Hud needs to remain in the south. There will be no SEC jobs to take nor any other jobs that offer what MSU can offer Hud. I think we've got a real chance to upgrade here, I hope our administration has the foresight and the fortitude to make the move if necessary. I still hope Mullen can get it together and pull off the Egg Bowl upset, but I really don't see it happening.

There are rumors that So Cal is going after Sumlin. If JFF is leaving, I can see Sumlin taking that job. Whoever A&M hires will have to be replaced and lots of coaches will be moving around before long. What happens with Muschamp? Spurrier retiring? Could be a busy winter.

[MrKotter]

Unless we get beat 45-0 on Thanksgiving- Mullen back for 2014.

Would you actually expect anything else coming from inside the ath dept? Nobody in the ath dept is going to come out and say "yeah, his ass is out" with games left.

[BossDawg]

And if it has, the whole Bryan Building needs to be fired.

Probably not a bad idea regardless.

[Coach34]

And if it has, the whole Bryan Building needs to be fired.

Well, sounds like it has- and they're not

[Coach34]

Would you actually expect anything else coming from inside the ath dept? Nobody in the ath dept is going to come out and say "yeah, his ass is out" with games left.

Yes- this was not a random asshole conversation

[HoopsDawg]

Well, sounds like it has- and they're not

I'm pretty sure you are not stupid. You know the decision has not been made.

[CadaverDawg]

Unless we get beat 45-0 on Thanksgiving- Mullen back for 2014.

My question is.....What happened to "letting the season play out"? Or does that only apply to those of us that don't agree with your stance?

I mean, after all, if this is "speculation", how is it any different than someone that is ready for Mullen to go starting a thread? Couldn't they just as easily say they talked to someone that said Mullen was getting fired? Would it get locked if they did?

Not trying to cause a problem, I just hate double standards

[HoopsDawg]

Yes- this was not a random asshole conversation

It was a random enough person that it was apparently relayed to you. And I stress the word apparently.

[Jdawg]

If HUD is not in play I don't think there's another choice but to keep Mullen this year. If we were to fire a coach that's had some success and then has one bad year it will make it hard to get someone in my opinion. People outside the program don't know what goes on inside the football program so perception is reality.

I know it's not what many here wanted to see happen but we could do much worse at this point. If Mullen doesn't improve as a coach next year then there's more for outsiders to see and that perception will be different.

[ckDOG]

We will beat Arky and upset OM at home so this discussion will be moot come Black Friday. That said, I'm sure the admin is totally fine with Dan. I'd rather know if the big money shares the same opinion. That's the only opinion that matters. Screw whatever your AD friends say.

[cheewgumm]

Hahaha... No see that was to shut you up... Not them. Hahah, great point.

No laughing matter if true though but pretty typical. We wonder why we always suck. We expect it. Hellwe demand it !!!

Who is greg Byrne(galt)?


My question is.....What happened to "letting the season play out"? Or does that only apply to those of us that don't agree with your stance?

I mean, after all, if this is "speculation", how is it any different than someone that is ready for Mullen to go starting a thread? Couldn't they just as easily say they talked to someone that said Mullen was getting fired? Would it get locked if they did?

Not trying to cause a problem, I just hate double standards

[CadaverDawg]

Hahaha... No see that was to shut you up... Not them. Hahah, great point.

No laughing matter if true though but pretty typical. We wonder why we always suck. We expect it. Hellwe demand it !!!

Who is greg Byrne(galt)?

+1

[cheewgumm]

If all this is true my new theory is that Strickland is just a puppet regime being run primarily out of the sec office by LT.

[Todd4State]

The bottom line is it all comes down to the Egg Bowl. Which is pretty much what I have been saying.

I would not expect the administration to say or be anything other than supportive of Dan at this point. We still have a chance to go to a bowl. Even if they know that they are going to fire him, you don't say it or leak it because if you do then you end up with a situation where there is a lot of controversy amongst the alumni and even worse you have a coach that will go into "don't give a shit" mode.

Really and truly, losing to Arkansas this year SHOULD be enough to get fired regardless of the outcome of the Egg Bowl, but the reality is I don't think that game matters too much.

[preachermatt83]

bottom line is the money alums will make the call, not the admin and I assure you if we lose out or if we beat arky then lose to OM by 17 or more Dan will be fired. And as for the Hud debate everyone likes to say he is going somewhere else. My question is where? A school like florida or aTm is not going to go after him as a top choice, as I have said dozens of times he is just simply making sure we know he's not gonna be walked all over just because he want's the job. It's sounds clich?' but he is "playing hard to get". That's his best move. It will equal more money and more decision making ability overall. Either Hud is the coach at State next year or he will remain at Louisiana Laf. Mark it down.

[Todd4State]

If all this is true my new theory is that Strickland is just a puppet regime being run primarily out of the sec office by LT.

All AD's are puppets. It's a matter of who is pulling the strings.

[cheewgumm]

#goodpoint

[CadaverDawg]

bottom line is the money alums will make the call, not the admin and I assure you if we lose out or if we beat arky then lose to OM by 17 or more Dan will be fired. And as for the Hud debate everyone likes to say he is going somewhere else. My question is where? A school like florida or aTm is not going to go after him as a top choice, as I have said dozens of times he is just simply making sure we know he's not gonna be walked all over just because he want's the job. It's sounds clich?' but he is "playing hard to get". That's his best move. It will equal more money and more decision making ability overall. Either Hud is the coach at State next year or he will remain at Louisiana Laf. Mark it down.

I tend to agree with this. If you pull yourself away from maroon and white for a second and look at Hud from a Florida or SC or A&M standpoint....he is rising, but he hasn't completely risen yet (I'm sure the Hud Jesus crowd will love that reference). Schools like those get someone that has risen....teams like MSU catch coaches as they are rising before other big schools draw interest. That's why I'm not buying the "Hud is going elsewhere I'm hearing (wink, wink)" BS. Truth is, he is MSU ready, but not Florida ready. It is what it is. Most of us just seem to think he will be a homerun hire that will eventually be a candidate at a really big school if we don't act quickly.

[preachermatt83]

I tend to agree with this. If you pull yourself away from maroon and white for a second and look at Hud from a Florida or SC or A&M standpoint....he is rising, but he hasn't completely risen yet (I'm sure the Hud Jesus crowd will love that reference). Schools like those get someone that has risen....teams like MSU catch coaches as they are rising before other big schools draw interest. That's why I'm not buying the "Hud is going elsewhere I'm hearing (wink, wink)" BS. Truth is, he is MSU ready, but not Florida ready. It is what it is. Most of us just seem to think he will be a homerun hire that will eventually be a candidate at a really big school if we don't act quickly.

exactly

[Dawgfan77]

The thing is if we go 5-7 this year which is still debatable, and then go 6-6 next year which would put us 2-6 in the SEC will all the Mullen supports still be here? Vandy is no sure win anymore, Auburn is improving, UK is recruiting better than we are, and we get go to Oxford. I dont see Dan making any changes this off season to the staff or the way he recruits because no one in the Bryan building has the balls to hold Dan's feet to the fire. Mediocrity only acceptable at MSU

[Schultzy]

bottom line is the money alums will make the call, not the admin and I assure you if we lose out or if we beat arky then lose to OM by 17 or more Dan will be fired. And as for the Hud debate everyone likes to say he is going somewhere else. My question is where? A school like florida or aTm is not going to go after him as a top choice, as I have said dozens of times he is just simply making sure we know he's not gonna be walked all over just because he want's the job. It's sounds clich?' but he is "playing hard to get". That's his best move. It will equal more money and more decision making ability overall. Either Hud is the coach at State next year or he will remain at Louisiana Laf. Mark it down.
Did I read on here that ultimatums come with hiring Hud? Things like, if he comes to MSU so and so in the admin has got to go.
If that's the case it seems that would lower the chances of him ever actually coming to terms with us.

[Thick]

If we lose out, we would be 4-13 in our last 17. If we make no changes at all, not firing Dan necessarily, but some assistant or coordinator changes, then I'm canceling my TV season tickets...DONE!!

[Coach34]

That's the point Cadaver- this is not a speculation thread- this is "stance the admin is taking" thread

[MrKotter]

All of this is BS. Like I said before, no way will the aathletic dept be leaking anything right now. The customary "all is good, Dan is the man" is all you are going to get right now.

With that said, I fully expect Mullen back next year. We don't have a wise athletic dept.

[Drugdog]

I'm with Thick. My daughters Junior Bulldog Membership is out of here.
See how the admin deals with that!

[Political Hack]

I'll be pleasantly surprised if he signs an extension before the end of the year. If he doesn't, I'll be convinced that they're waiting for a reason.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

Unless we get beat 45-0 on Thanksgiving- Mullen back for 2014.

Pretty early to take this stance. A loss to Arkansas absolutely has to be the final nail in the coffin. They are awful.

[PMDawg]

That's the point Cadaver- this is not a speculation thread- this is "stance the admin is taking" thread

Is this the same source you got the Chris Peterson, Kenny Payne, Shaka Smart, etc. information from? Look, I have no doubt that you have some sources that you trust, but no one on here had a 100% track record. I'm sure you were told this by someone who should know, and you believe it. But you admitted yourself that it is second hand info. So I think it's fair to call it speculation. I'm not trying to be an ass here. Just pointing out that it's entirely plausible that the administration could be putting out the dreaded "vote of confidence".

[Dawgtini]

It would be crazy to fire Mullen. If we lose out, we will be 12-13 over 2 seasons with a BOWL loss.

[Coach34]

Is this the same source you got the Chris Peterson, Kenny Payne, Shaka Smart, etc. information from?

No- this is the source that told me Crooms was going to be fired after we lost to Ga Tech, that Chris Jones was coming to State, that Augustus and Sidney failed drug tests and would be suspended months before it happened, and that Melvin wouldnt be returning 2 months before it was announced.

[Martianlander]

At least a couple of coaches on the offensive side won't be back. One of their replacements is going to knock your socks off. I'm not sure I'm totally happy with him but he will be a good recruiter. That's all I can say right now. I've been sworn to secrecy. Just remember when it happens Martianlander told you first.

[Dawgface]

So if lose to Arky and to OM let's say 31 - 17 we keep Mullen. The adm better get ready to lose a lot of supporters.

[MadDawg]

that's fine, it's just a dated message. if we lose our last 3, he is gone and he knows he should be.

Then we can move on to destroying the next coach's career.

[MadDawg]

Hud is not an option at this point. All signs are pointing to him headed somewhere already- thats what led to the "we're not ****ing firing him" response...lol

Holy crap, Coach. You just pissed off a lot of whiney bitches.

[EngineerDawg]

No- this is the source that told me Crooms was going to be fired after we lost to Ga Tech, that Chris Jones was coming to State, that Augustus and Sidney failed drug tests and would be suspended months before it happened, and that Melvin wouldnt be returning 2 months before it was announced.

I am not arguing or saying you are wrong, but could this source being using you C34 as the AthDep surely knows this board is one of the most vocal? I don't know the entire relationship with you and the source, but could this be more propaganda? I haven't been around here long but if you combine all these "troll" posts and this bit of information, it makes me skeptical. Maybe its just because I am a "half-empty" type of guy...

[engie]

Then we can move on to destroying the next coach's career.

Yeah -- because we are the ones that would have gone 5-13 over the last 18.

[I'minHailState]

Coach, I think we need to let the season play out. IF we beat Arkansas and TSUN, then we can talk about keeping Dan.

[MrKotter]

Holy crap, Coach. You just pissed off a lot of whiney bitches.

How so?

[DownwardDawg]

That's the point Cadaver- this is not a speculation thread- this is "stance the admin is taking" thread

I just filled out a survey from the athletic dept. What does that have to do with this? Maybe nothing at all. I did find some of the questions interesting though. We will see what happens.

[DownwardDawg]

The thing is if we go 5-7 this year which is still debatable, and then go 6-6 next year which would put us 2-6 in the SEC will all the Mullen supports still be here? Vandy is no sure win anymore, Auburn is improving, UK is recruiting better than we are, and we get go to Oxford. I dont see Dan making any changes this off season to the staff or the way he recruits because no one in the Bryan building has the balls to hold Dan's feet to the fire. Mediocrity only acceptable at MSU

Nonsense! When Bama shuts us out Saturday he'll fire Geoff Collins.

[DanDority]

5-13 at MSU = "good enough" "happy" etc...

Where were we "young"?

We will always be "young" apparently

[Coach34]

I've already said if we lost out I want change- I'm just passing along the chatter

[Dawgfan77]

At least a couple of coaches on the offensive side won't be back. One of their replacements is going to knock your socks off. I'm not sure I'm totally happy with him but he will be a good recruiter. That's all I can say right now. I've been sworn to secrecy. Just remember when it happens Martianlander told you first.

I have heard Brian Johnson but not sure how much truth to that is Also heard Billy G will get a promotion to OC and les to QB coach

[dickiedawg]

I've already said if we lost out I want change- I'm just passing along the chatter

If we were to lose out, there is NO WAY you bring Dan back. Absolutely none.

[MadDawg]

Yeah -- because we are the ones that would have gone 5-13 over the last 18.

What an attractive coaching job.... Come be our coach! But you better accomplish more than any coach has in our history, or your ass is gone, bitch! (channeling my inner Jesse)

[Coach34]

At least a couple of coaches on the offensive side won't be back. One of their replacements is going to knock your socks off. I'm not sure I'm totally happy with him but he will be a good recruiter. That's all I can say right now. I've been sworn to secrecy. Just remember when it happens Martianlander told you first.

And this makes sense if that is the stance that is being taken right now

[Madkinmecrazy]

If we were to lose out, there is NO WAY you bring Dan back. Absolutely none.

Doubt he'd get fired even then, unless there were off-the-field issues as well.

Fact is, you don't fire a coach after one down year unless you're Alabama or Texas or USC. You just don't. No one wants to take a job in the most competitive conference in football at a average to above average program knowing that one down year is all you get, especially since the level of competition is so high that a few minor slipups can turn a 8-4 season into a 5-7 season. If we had the prestige of the big programs or the deep pockets, it might be different.

But it isn't. Mullen is all but guaranteed another chance next year.

[Tbonewannabe]

Doubt he'd get fired even then, unless there were off-the-field issues as well.

Fact is, you don't fire a coach after one down year unless you're Alabama or Texas or USC. You just don't. No one wants to take a job in the most competitive conference in football at a average to above average program knowing that one down year is all you get, especially since the level of competition is so high that a few minor slipups can turn a 8-4 season into a 5-7 season. If we had the prestige of the big programs or the deep pockets, it might be different.

But it isn't. Mullen is all but guaranteed another chance next year.
The problem is it is 1 and1/2 down years if we lose out. Croom could have got us to a bowl last year.

[engie]

What an attractive coaching job.... Come be our coach! But you better accomplish more than any coach has in our history, or your ass is gone, bitch! (channeling my inner Jesse)

Lifetime contract if you can just win 7 of 18.

Yeah -- I'd call that pretty damn attractive.

[MrKotter]

Nonsense! When Bama shuts us out Saturday he'll fire Geoff Collins.

Sadly this is 100% true.

[MrKotter]

I have heard Brian Johnson but not sure how much truth to that is Also heard Billy G will get a promotion to OC and les to QB coach
Brian Johnson of AC/DC? Sweet

[engie]

Doubt he'd get fired even then, unless there were off-the-field issues as well.

Fact is, you don't fire a coach after one down year unless you're Alabama or Texas or USC. You just don't. No one wants to take a job in the most competitive conference in football at a average to above average program knowing that one down year is all you get, especially since the level of competition is so high that a few minor slipups can turn a 8-4 season into a 5-7 season. If we had the prestige of the big programs or the deep pockets, it might be different.

But it isn't. Mullen is all but guaranteed another chance next year.

Say what? There are 50ish teams that can and do fire coaches for one losing season. Nevermind a dumpster fire half of a season to end -- followed by a losing season.

This "no one will want to take the job" line is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. We are in the SEC and can offer a top 20 salary. As such, we can name the midmajor coach from now for all eternity. If people are scared to come here because they can't go 7-5 40% of the time, they aren't the right people for the job period.

People acting like we wouldn't be a pretty hot commodity on the free market right now are kidding themselves. "New money" school -- with brand new facilities -- starved for success -- with a roster situation that tees up the first couple of years for a new coach. We aren't a "dumpster fire rebuild". That changes everything in a coaching search.

[Coach34]

The problem is it is 1 and1/2 down years if we lose out. Croom could have got us to a bowl last year.

We were in the Gator Bowl last year- that's not a down year at Mississippi State

As to the stupid comment about Crooms- no way we beat Troy, Tennessee...maybe even losing to Auburn with him. We're talking about a coach that never averaged 300 yards of total offense for a season.

[DownwardDawg]

Say what? There are 50+ teams that can and do fire coaches for one losing season. Nevermind a dumpster fire half of a season to end -- followed by a losing season.

This "no one will want to take the job" line is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

But sadly this is the mentality of a large portion of our fanbase.

[CadaverDawg]

That's the point Cadaver- this is not a speculation thread- this is "stance the admin is taking" thread

Well, unless you are part of the Administration, which you are not, then it is a speculation thread. If you are good friends with whoever told you that shit about us keeping Dan, then he probably knows that you run a damn message board. He isn't going to tell you if they are considering firing Mullen with 3 games left, I wouldn't imagine. I doubt anyone in the Athl Dep would say that to anybody right now. And besides, you yourself said that Administration wouldn't be making that call, the money boys would. So all in all, I view this thread as a propaganda piece to help push your defense of Mullen.

Just don't be surprised if someone on this board happens to run in to a member of Admin tomorrow at the Bryan Building, and they tell him that Mullen will get fired if he loses to ole miss. And when they post it on here, it shouldn't be locked, because it is not speculation...it is a "stance the admin is taking" thread. I mean after all, they could have a better source inside the admin than you do, right?

See how that works. This thread is a prime example of NOT "letting the season play out", by the Mullen defender side. It's a double standard, and it appears that nobody is buying it regardless if it's true or not. Had you not been defending Mullen like he was your long lost brother for the past month, it would be a lot more believable to those that aren't buying it.

[CadaverDawg]

Doubt he'd get fired even then, unless there were off-the-field issues as well.

Fact is, you don't fire a coach after one down year unless you're Alabama or Texas or USC. You just don't. No one wants to take a job in the most competitive conference in football at a average to above average program knowing that one down year is all you get, especially since the level of competition is so high that a few minor slipups can turn a 8-4 season into a 5-7 season. If we had the prestige of the big programs or the deep pockets, it might be different.

But it isn't. Mullen is all but guaranteed another chance next year.

Good grief. So you are just ignoring the fact that we shut it down last year after starting 7-0? Just took the second half of the season off basically. Everybody that says "it's one bad season" is just not paying attention.

[engie]

But sadly this is the mentality of a large portion of our fanbase.

Because of how the basketball search went. Yet, they aren't cognizant of their approach becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

We let our basketball program be driven TOTALLY into the ground in terms of what we had coming back -- with obvious attitude and drug issues -- necessitating a multi-year rebuild from dumpster fire status.

Yet, they are in favor of giving the football program EVERY opportunity to reach dumpster fire status before making a change -- thus CREATING the same hiring environment of the basketball search all over again -- and also creating, to a smaller extent, the same limitations. At MSU -- we never collectively learn from what we did wrong before -- thus we never move forward.

I contend that IF we had gotten rid of Stansbury a year sooner -- with what we had coming back and coming in -- we would have been a VERY attractive situation for a prospective coach, could have likely salvaged the Hood/Gardner/Deville class, and the basketball program likely goes dancing in year 1 under the new guy -- with a nice base and core for the future. That one extra "chance to right the ship" DESTROYED us -- and it cost us AT LEAST 3 YEARS.


All that said -- I'm all for letting the season play out. Mullen gave me a SLIVER of hope in the aTm game for the first time in awhile -- and it's more than fair to see where it leads. He beats Arky and OM -- he's got to stay. He loses either -- he's got to go.

[Coach34]

Well, unless you are part of the Administration, which you are not, then it is a speculation thread. If you are good friends with whoever told you that shit about us keeping Dan, then he probably knows that you run a damn message board. He isn't going to tell you if they are considering firing Mullen with 3 games left, I wouldn't imagine. I doubt anyone in the Athl Dep would say that to anybody right now. And besides, you yourself said that Administration wouldn't be making that call, the money boys would. So all in all, I view his thread as a propaganda piece to help push your defense of Mullen.
.

1. I think the Admin wants this stance out there- and wants the speculation to end. That's why it was told to me with "I dont care if you post it or not"

2. Engie said the Money Boys are making this call- not me. And that is who is going to have to step in to make it happen it looks like. The Admin looks to be moving forward with Mullen.

[CadaverDawg]

Nonsense! When Bama shuts us out Saturday he'll fire Geoff Collins.

Ha, I laughed at this

[CadaverDawg]

1. I think the Admin wants this stance out there- and wants the speculation to end. That's why it was told to me with "I dont care if you post it or not"

2. Engie said the Money Boys are making this call- not me. And that is who is going to have to step in to make it happen it looks like. The Admin looks to be moving forward with Mullen.

Fair enough. Both good points, and I can agree with that.

And I apologize, I thought you said that bolded part

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

1. I think the Admin wants this stance out there- and wants the speculation to end. That's why it was told to me with "I dont care if you post it or not"

2. Engie said the Money Boys are making this call- not me. And that is who is going to have to step in to make it happen it looks like. The Admin looks to be moving forward with Mullen.

I believe that someone told you this...but it just seems odd for someone to say that so early. There will be a pretty large backlash on Mullen if he loses the Egg Bowl two times in a row.

[Madkinmecrazy]

Good grief. So you are just ignoring the fact that we shut it down last year after starting 7-0? Just took the second half of the season off basically. Everybody that says "it's one bad season" is just not paying attention.

In MSU's history, a bowl is a bowl is a bowl.

I know you want him gone and I know it pisses you off because it isn't happening, but it's not life we have the money or prestige to upgrade after a single losing season.

[CadaverDawg]

Because of how the basketball search went. Yet, they aren't cognizant of their approach becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

We let our basketball program be driven TOTALLY into the ground in terms of what we had coming back -- with obvious attitude and drug issues -- necessitating a multi-year rebuild from dumpster fire status.

Yet, they are in favor of giving the football program EVERY opportunity to reach dumpster fire status before making a change -- thus CREATING the same hiring environment of the basketball search all over again -- and also creating, to a smaller extent, the same limitations. At MSU -- we never collectively learn from what we did wrong before -- thus we never move forward.

I contend that IF we had gotten rid of Stansbury a year sooner -- with what we had coming back and coming in -- we would have been a VERY attractive situation for a prospective coach, could have likely salvaged the Hood/Gardner/Deville class, and the basketball program likely goes dancing in year 1 under the new guy -- with a nice base and core for the future. That one extra "chance to right the ship" DESTROYED us -- and it cost us AT LEAST 3 YEARS.


All that said -- I'm all for letting the season play out. Mullen gave me a SLIVER of hope in the aTm game for the first time in awhile -- and it's more than fair to see where it leads. He beats Arky and OM -- he's got to stay. He loses either -- he's got to go.

Yep. We are about to let that happen to football. Because all,these same people that say, "scant fire Mullen after!one bad year", will be fed up with Mullen's shit when he only wins 6 with an easy schedule next year. So then, if we fire him after next year, we look like an even worse job because we are firing him after a WINNING season instead of doing in when we should do it, which is after a losing season this year. I bet none of you, "Mullen deserves one more year" guys have thought beyond this season though.

[CadaverDawg]

In MSU's history, a bowl is a bowl is a bowl.

I know you want him gone and I know it pisses you off because it isn't happening, but it's not life we have the money or prestige to upgrade after a single losing season.

In other words, I'm going to avoid answering the question or discussing what he just pointed out about my previous post, and instead just say something about what he thinks. Good try, but you avoided the topic of discussion.

You JUST said "in MSU's history, a bowl is a bowl". So in other words, you don't give a rats ass who we beat to achieve the bowl, how bad we looked doing it, or anything that is happening on the field...just as long as we make a bowl. What a mediocre accepting mentality. We've never been a consistent winner in o ur history, so don't you think we may ought to start trying to do things differently?

You guys kill me with this, "we don't do things that way at MSU" and then you wonder why we suck 2 years later. It's because we keep doing the same dumb shit year after year after year. There's a reason we can't be good and stay good, and it's because of mentalities like yours where we just stick our head in the sand until a coach drives a program completely into the ground before we decide to do anything about it.

This isn't about what I want...this is about me pointing out the flaws in your stance, and wanting what is best for MSU. Look beyond the current and into the future of this program. Recruiting is going down, wins are going down, on field decisions are getting worse, etc... What makes you think a switch is going to flip and we will turn the clock back to 2010?

[EAVdog]

It's not like this year is the only year we can hire a new coach. The argument that if we don't fire Mullen right away then we've accepted Mediocrity is kind of stupid. Even Florida fans, who are the craziest of crazy, are going to give Muschamp another year. If next year we don't see improvement then you just part ways.

I feel pretty confident that changes if necessary will be made within the staff and the change back to a more Florida type Offense is already taking place which I think should help. This all just reminds me of the Fire Cohen movement.

[The Croom Diaries]

Obviously the admin is going to try to control the message and maintain positivity by putting out the word that Mullen is completely safe. They just want everyone to shut up about it and dissipate all the negativity by getting people to support Mullen until the end of the season. So they've told the media and everyone else that Mullen is safe so they'll get the word out. But if we go 4-8 he is gone - there is just no doubt about it, that's completely unacceptable in today's SEC with all the advantages with regards to money, recruiting, etc. the SEC provides us. Stricklin has the balls to do it, he fired our winningest basketball coach after a 20 win season when the crowd was about 50/50 on that as well.

[engie]

In MSU's history, a bowl is a bowl is a bowl.

I know you want him gone and I know it pisses you off because it isn't happening, but it's not life we have the money or prestige to upgrade after a single losing season.

100% of this is incorrect.

70 teams make bowls now. Glad we can finish in the top 70 3 of 5 times**

Don't have the money or prestige? Ridiculous. The better question is -- do we have the money to keep him? We finish with a loss in the Egg and don't make a bowl, we won't be selling out season tickets in the freshly expanded Davis Wade -- and may not even sell out the Clubs.

[Madkinmecrazy]

This isn't about what I want...this is about me pointing out the flaws in your stance, and wanting what is best for MSU. Look beyond the current and into the future of this program. Recruiting is going down, wins are going down, on field decisions are getting worse, etc... What makes you think a switch is going to flip and we will turn the clock back to 2010?

My stance doesn't change because you invent "flaws." No, I don't believe that we are an elite team, but that doesn't mean I don't want us to be. No, I'm not ignoring the finish of last season, but other than the bowl and the Egg Bowl, there wasn't a bad loss and we played alot of GOOD teams. No, I don't believe that firing Mullen is "best for MSU," mainly because I am pretty certain that we aren't going to get an improvement in coaching by cutting our most successful coach in recent history after one losing season. No, I don't believe that our recruiting is getting worse (although I don't think it's getting better).

All I'm saying is that cutting Mullen loose now would be the worst thing we could do for the program. If we EVER want to have sustained coaching success, we have to create a pattern of support and not cutting our losses as soon as things go poorly. Let's say we do fire him this year and somehow the almighty HUD comes in and has a winning season. Why would he want to stick around if a big boy gives him another offer? Answer: He wouldn't. Why stick around somewhere where you might get run out of town the next year and have NO job when you can go to a better school with more money today where you are pretty sure you'll get a few years at least.If we start firing our successful coaches because of down years, we will become a springboard for coaches to move from the ULLs of the world to the UFs of the world.

[SignalToNoise]

This all sounds like planted information to me.

I know you are just the messenger, but it seems awfully convenient that they want to get the message out that Mullen is safe AND Hud is headed somewhere else.

Color me suspicious.

[Madkinmecrazy]

100% of this is incorrect.

70 teams make bowls now. Glad we can finish in the top 70 3 of 5 times**

Don't have the money or prestige? Ridiculous. The better question is -- do we have the money to keep him? We finish with a loss in the Egg and don't make a bowl, we won't be selling out season tickets in the freshly expanded Davis Wade -- and may not even sell out the Clubs.

If we finish with a loss in the Egg Bowl, we won't be selling out DWS no matter who the coach is. And firing Mullen isn't going to get us an upgrade in the coaching department.

We aren't getting Hud.

Just curious, were you on the fire Cohen bandwagon last year?

[CadaverDawg]

My stance doesn't change because you invent "flaws." No, I don't believe that we are an elite team, but that doesn't mean I don't want us to be. No, I'm not ignoring the finish of last season, but other than the bowl and the Egg Bowl, there wasn't a bad loss and we played alot of GOOD teams. No, I don't believe that firing Mullen is "best for MSU," mainly because I am pretty certain that we aren't going to get an improvement in coaching by cutting our most successful coach in recent history after one losing season. No, I don't believe that our recruiting is getting worse (although I don't think it's getting better).

All I'm saying is that cutting Mullen loose now would be the worst thing we could do for the program. If we EVER want to have sustained coaching success, we have to create a pattern of support and not cutting our losses as soon as things go poorly. Let's say we do fire him this year and somehow the almighty HUD comes in and has a winning season. Why would he want to stick around if a big boy gives him another offer? Answer: He wouldn't. Why stick around somewhere where you might get run out of town the next year and have NO job when you can go to a better school with more money today where you are pretty sure you'll get a few years at least.If we start firing our successful coaches because of down years, we will become a springboard for coaches to move from the ULLs of the world to the UFs of the world.

I hope this isn't the feelings of a majority of our fans. If it is, then we deserve to be mediocre, and none of you should be upset when we lose or when we underachieve. Hell, that's all you expect.

There is so much fail in your post, that I didn't feel like dissecting it

[CadaverDawg]

This all sounds like planted information to me.

I know you are just the messenger, but it seems awfully convenient that they want to get the message out that Mullen is safe AND Hud is headed somewhere else.

Color me suspicious.

Yep

[DawgsBite34]

There is no chance in hell he comes back if we lose out, I don't think theres any chance he comes back if we lose to Ole Miss. If he does, expect to see a brand new expansion only about halfway filled at the most.

[DawgInMemphis]

I vote to have the term "dumpster fire" banned from this board. I feel like it has run it's course... we should be more creative than that.

[engie]

It's not like this year is the only year we can hire a new coach. The argument that if we don't fire Mullen right away then we've accepted Mediocrity is kind of stupid.
In general, I would agree with this. But what do you do when he goes 6-6 next year in spite of an 8-win schedule? Can you fire a bowl coach at MSU? I say you can't. Talk about "hard to hire a coach at MSU" -- what happens if you fire him then? So, in spite of a 2ish-game underperformance for THREE straight years --likely with 3 straight losses in the Egg -- and 3 straight OM dominated recruiting classes -- he's coming back for the 4th year.


Even Florida fans, who are the craziest of crazy, are going to give Muschamp another year. If next year we don't see improvement then you just part ways.
This is ridiculous to even say at this point. Muschamp is not any more guaranteed another year than Mullen is. He gets blown out by FSU -- heads are going to roll. Fact is -- he was also a gnats ass away from playing for a National Title last year.


I feel pretty confident that changes if necessary will be made within the staff and the change back to a more Florida type Offense is already taking place which I think should help.
Why would he suddenly "fix" this -- after the problems have been obvious since 2011? LAST YEAR was the window to make staff changes. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY to make our problems any more obvious than they became in the final 6 last year. Are our problems as obvious to you this year? Because they aren't as obvious to me. Not beyond Dan's on-field ridiculous playcalling, clock-management, and personnel usage -- which is ALL on him.


This all just reminds me of the Fire Cohen movement.
I don't see any similarities at all.

[MadDawg]

Lifetime contract if you can just win 7 of 18.

Yeah -- I'd call that pretty damn attractive.

Lifetime contract my ass.... Do it this year, but have a down year the next? Yo ass is on the hotseat and half the fanbase will turn against you. Not only do you have to do better than any coach has ever been able to do in our history, you have to outdo YOURSELF and then repeat.
"So you've taken us to more bowl games in a shorter time than any coach in our history? Who gives a shit. You had a down year. MSU should NEVER have a down year! Your ass is gone, bitch!"

[MadDawg]

This "no one will want to take the job" line is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. We are in the SEC and can offer a top 20 salary.

Better invest those 7-figures wisely. Because in 4-5 years you will lose it and never earn that much again in your lifetime. If I was a young coach (read: not within 10 years of retirement) I wouldn't touch MSU and it's deluded, fickle fanbase with a 10 foot pole.

[Coach34]

Our fans bitched about going to the damn Gator Bowl- that's insane for our people supporting our program to act like that

[Drugdog]

I will bet all my vcash Dan is back next year regardless of what happens this year.
We DONT fire coaches who have had decent success. Look at our history.

[CadaverDawg]

I will bet all my vcash Dan is back next year regardless of what happens this year.
We DONT fire coaches who have had decent success. Look at our history.

Yep, and that's why we never maintain any success. We'll keep him, and then 2 years from now we'll be rebuilding. Rinse, repeat

[Goat Holder]

Yep, and that's why we never maintain any success. We'll keep him, and then 2 years from now we'll be rebuilding. Rinse, repeat

2 years from now the best two recruiting classes in a long damn time at MSU will be Jrs. and Srs.

[EAVdog]

In general, I would agree with this. But what do you do when he goes 6-6 next year in spite of an 8-win schedule? Can you fire a bowl coach at MSU? I say you can't. Talk about "hard to hire a coach at MSU" -- what happens if you fire him then? So, in spite of a 2ish-game underperformance for THREE straight years --likely with 3 straight losses in the Egg -- and 3 straight OM dominated recruiting classes -- he's coming back for the 4th year.

This is ridiculous to even say at this point. Muschamp is not any more guaranteed another year than Mullen is. He gets blown out by FSU -- heads are going to roll. Fact is -- he was also a gnats ass away from playing for a National Title last year.

Why would he suddenly "fix" this -- after the problems have been obvious since 2011? LAST YEAR was the window to make staff changes. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY to make our problems any more obvious than they became in the final 6 last year. Are our problems as obvious to you this year? Because they aren't as obvious to me. Not beyond Dan's on-field ridiculous playcalling, clock-management, and personnel usage -- which is ALL on him.



I don't see any similarities at all.

How do you fire a coach for going 6-6, you call him in your office and tell him his services are no longer needed. But you do that from a position of strength. You do that knowing you have a great replacement. Not firing your coach in haste and hoping you can get a Sunbelt Coach to sign on. I think Hud is a good coach but folks who think that is the best we can do are the ones with the Mediocrity Complex.

Foley just came out and gave the same assurances that this message from the AD's office is putting out. No coaches job is assured from week to week. Florida expects to be in the National Championship hunt every year, not being whipped by Vandy at home. Foley knows that there is a point where even talking about change is more destructive than the actual change. Something our fans can't figure out.

So you have forgotten we beat Arkansas last year, pretty handily I might add. If you can't see that Mullen is already making the changes required to correct the offense than I don't know what to say. Look at our QB recruits, do you see any Tyler Russell types? Look at our RB recruits they look a whole lot more like Anthony Dixon/Vick Ballard types don't they? Look at last year's class (and don't worry about Ole Miss for a second). Mullen's main fault is being too self assured, he thought he could transition our team to a passing spread to better fit Russell's abilities. The closest thing we had to the true Florida Zone Read Option was when Relf was healthy. The Offense clicked then and we were able to move the ball, control the clock, convert third downs, and had a good red zone scoring percentage. These have all been issues. However if you dig deeper than just wins and losses and look at our Offensive production this year it's been pretty exceptional. If we take that forward with the younger talent next year and a QB that really fits the system than we should see a 2010 like team/year. We know Mullen can produce those results from prior experience. If he doesn't next year then fire him. Pretty simple.

[Tbonewannabe]

We were in the Gator Bowl last year- that's not a down year at Mississippi State

As to the stupid comment about Crooms- no way we beat Troy, Tennessee...maybe even losing to Auburn with him. We're talking about a coach that never averaged 300 yards of total offense for a season.

Croom was 7-4 when he went to the Liberty Bowl. Troy DOMINATED us in every category but the scoreboard (we won by 6 after scoring on a 4th down TD). UT we won on Banks making an once in a career fumble strip and recovery. Auburn was on the way to quitting on their coach. If Croom had Tyler at QB he might win those. I don't think us completely shitting the bed the last 5 games is automatically ignored because we were in the Gator Bowl. We wouldn't have been in the Gator Bowl if Ark didn't quit on their coach. You realize almost every coach that lost to Mullen got fired right? That tells you those coaches were probably underperforming with their players.

[Tbonewannabe]

Our fans bitched about going to the damn Gator Bowl- that's insane for our people supporting our program to act like that

We also fired our basketball coach after winning 20 games. We didn't give him an opportunity to get the team straight after getting rid of Bost and Sidney.

[engie]

If we finish with a loss in the Egg Bowl, we won't be selling out DWS no matter who the coach is. And firing Mullen isn't going to get us an upgrade in the coaching department.
I remember it selling out pretty regularly in 2009 for the first time since the east upper deck was built.


We aren't getting Hud.
Strangely only the most ardent Mullen supporters are the only ones privy to this "inside information". Notice -- it's only YOUR SIDE that's bringing up his name at all here.

Yet those of us that expect to want to go another direction are "the problem" around here**


Just curious, were you on the fire Cohen bandwagon last year?
LOL. About that. Let's check my perspective on things. Since I'm apparently just a ridiculous lunatic fringe that always wants the coach fired**
ALOT of solid gold in these.

http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?99613-How-awesome-is-our-baseball-team-going-to-be
http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?99694-Collegiate-Baseball-Preseason-Poll
http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?104932-Decisions-like-tonight-is-how-you-lose-4-straight-weekend-series
http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?83623-Enough-with-the-baseball-hysteria
http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?85377-Cohen-s-5th-year
http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?105093-It-s-year-5-for-Cohen-when-he-was-hire
http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?101317-Preseason-College-Baseball-Polls
http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?80383-Baseball-America-released-their-preseason-top-25
http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?104772-Warren-Nolan-now-projects-MSU-baseball-SOS-1-overall-for-2013
http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?87976-What-are-your-expectations-for-next-year-s-baseball-team

[engie]

Lifetime contract my ass.... Do it this year, but have a down year the next? Yo ass is on the hotseat and half the fanbase will turn against you. Not only do you have to do better than any coach has ever been able to do in our history, you have to outdo YOURSELF and then repeat.
"So you've taken us to more bowl games in a shorter time than any coach in our history? Who gives a shit. You had a down year. MSU should NEVER have a down year! Your ass is gone, bitch!"
Laughable

33-30(14-26) = Lifetime contract!!1!1 Can't get rid of that coach!!1!1

[Pollodawg]

Is this info sort of like the "Maroon Tidal Wave/Typhoon" shit from last recruiting season?

[Pollodawg]

People keep saying that Mullen is a victim of his own success. No, he isn't. He is a victim of his own hubris.

[Dawgface]

This all sounds like planted information to me.

I know you are just the messenger, but it seems awfully convenient that they want to get the message out that Mullen is safe AND Hud is headed somewhere else.

Color me suspicious.

Agree.

[MadDawg]

Laughable

33-30(14-26) = Lifetime contract!!1!1 Can't get rid of that coach!!1!1

Somehow we have come to believe we can be Alabama if we just fire enough coaches.

[Tbonewannabe]

Somehow we have come to believe we can be Alabama if we just fire enough coaches.

I think we have come to believe we can at least be competitive.

#11 MSST 0 0 0 7 7
#1 ALA 14 10 0 14 38

We hardly crossed the 50 yard line last year. Everyone believed we were saving something for Bama since we weren't looking very good against the teams we were beating. We ended up just being a team that was just a little better than bottom of the barrel.

[engie]

Somehow we have come to believe we can be Alabama if we just fire enough coaches.

Ah -- there is the trusty straw man Alabama argument**

Hey -- get within 5% either way of our HISTORICAL AVERAGE with 20x the money -- lifetime contract.

[Todd4State]

People keep saying that Mullen is a victim of his own success. No, he isn't. He is a victim of his own hubris.

BAM! Spot on. When I did my post about a week ago about who we should be playing, I basically agreed with our coaches on about half of the players. And I think most posters agreed with me for the most part on my picks- aside from maybe starting Tyler.

But my point is EVERYONE can see the issues, but Dan just keeps doing the same thing over and over without making any adjustments whatsoever.

[Percho]

My stance doesn't change because you invent "flaws." No, I don't believe that we are an elite team, but that doesn't mean I don't want us to be. No, I'm not ignoring the finish of last season, but other than the bowl and the Egg Bowl, there wasn't a bad loss and we played alot of GOOD teams. No, I don't believe that firing Mullen is "best for MSU," mainly because I am pretty certain that we aren't going to get an improvement in coaching by cutting our most successful coach in recent history after one losing season. No, I don't believe that our recruiting is getting worse (although I don't think it's getting better).

All I'm saying is that cutting Mullen loose now would be the worst thing we could do for the program. If we EVER want to have sustained coaching success, we have to create a pattern of support and not cutting our losses as soon as things go poorly. Let's say we do fire him this year and somehow the almighty HUD comes in and has a winning season. Why would he want to stick around if a big boy gives him another offer? Answer: He wouldn't. Why stick around somewhere where you might get run out of town the next year and have NO job when you can go to a better school with more money today where you are pretty sure you'll get a few years at least.If we start firing our successful coaches because of down years, we will become a springboard for coaches to move from the ULLs of the world to the UFs of the world.

You sir are correct. I am 70 been a bulldog for 50 of those and this is exactly what we have been doing for those 50 years. Go and look. We change coaches, The new guy wins with the other coaches guys, then losses and what do we do. Change coaches. Eight coaches in 50 years. 6 x 8 = 48 Case closed.

[CadaverDawg]

I think we have come to believe we can at least be competitive.

#11 MSST 0 0 0 7 7
#1 ALA 14 10 0 14 38

We hardly crossed the 50 yard line last year. Everyone believed we were saving something for Bama since we weren't looking very good against the teams we were beating. We ended up just being a team that was just a little better than bottom of the barrel.

Yep. 2 straight years of suck. If we hadn't had the easiest non con schedule in the country last year, plus Auburn sucking, Ark sucking, and Tennessee sucking.....the Mullen defenders would be singing a different tune. Unfortunately ey're all blind as shit and can't read between the lines. By the way....what did those 3 teams do when their coaches sucked for a season or two? Yep, every damn one of em was fired. But by all means, let's keep talking up that big 8-5 season last year. It is ridiculous.

[maroonmania]

Our fans bitched about going to the damn Gator Bowl- that's insane for our people supporting our program to act like that

Coach, you are really losing me with some of your logic. Just as some of Stan's ridiculously weak basketball schedules should not have shrouded some of the problems with his basketball program the same EXACT thing should be said about our football results. The glorious Gator Bowl trip last year was built on beating 2 Sun Belt teams with losing records, a SWAC team, 4 SEC teams with a combined SEC record of 3-29 (only got those 3 wins because somebody HAD to win when those 4 played each other) and our one glorious win over mighty MTSU who did finish 8-4 but got no bowl bid. Now if Stans had built a good record over a bunch of nobodies and then got knocked out of the NCAA tournament in the first round (sort of like our bowl loss) you would have been all over his ass, but somehow you are willing to continue to give Mullen a pass. Heck, at least for the first half of Stans' tenure he actually had some teams that were legitimately good that actually beat other GOOD teams. Besides maybe one year (2010) Mullen hasn't really had that at all. NOBODY is asking Mullen to compete for championships but since 2010 under him we don't really do much with any SEC team unless they are in a severe down cycle. So bring him on back for another year if you want, which I can live with if we aren't bringing in Hud, but after 5 years I pretty much know what I'm getting with him and that's a minor bowl to no bowl which is TOTALLY dependent on the number of teams with a pulse on the schedule. But hey, we're just MSU, we shouldn't expect any better results and should feel fortunate we beat bad teams.

[Todd4State]

Also this is NOTHING like Cohen and a few people wanting him fired. Most of those people were during Cohen's first two years when we were having losing seasons and I think some people had the thought "well, Polk may have been right after all" based on the on the field results and the clashing that was going on between Cohen and some of the players. But how many people actually wanted Cohen fired the past three years? Not very many.

But the biggest difference is Cohen's teams have objectively improved and he has recruited very well- really he has recruited well the entire time he has been here.

Dan started out well the first two years, and then whatever happened and we have gotten unexplainably predictable on offense to go along with baffling personnel decisions. And it has gotten worse every year.

[CadaverDawg]

You sir are correct. I am 70 been a bulldog for 50 of those and this is exactly what we have been doing for those 50 years. Go and look. We change coaches, The new guy wins with the other coaches guys, then losses and what do we do. Change coaches. Eight coaches in 50 years. 6 x 8 = 48 Case closed.

Umm....have you ever thought that maybe we shouldn't hang on to these guys so long that they take us all the way back down to the bottom of the league before we fire them? My God, it is easy to see why we always have sucked and always will suck. Even the people that have seen the same cycle over and over and over and over for 70 damn years, can't even see what needs to be done...but instead want to repeat it AGAIN! Percho, what happens if Mullen wins 5 next year and then 3 the next? Keep holding on? I mean, surely that's the problem right? We aren't letting these coaches deep enough into the shitter to eventually miraculously climb out of it, right?

Ho. Ly. Smokes. Sometimes I just shake my head at the comments I read.

[Todd4State]

You sir are correct. I am 70 been a bulldog for 50 of those and this is exactly what we have been doing for those 50 years. Go and look. We change coaches, The new guy wins with the other coaches guys, then losses and what do we do. Change coaches. Eight coaches in 50 years. 6 x 8 = 48 Case closed.

You know how you fix that? Bring in a guy that can recruit right off the bat. Mississippi is just different as far as recruiting. You have to make connections- and I mean beyond what you normally would in most any other state. And no- I'm not talking about dirty recruiting even. You have to know people that can help you. Most coaches don't figure this out until it's too late.

[CadaverDawg]

Coach, you are really losing me with some of your logic. Just as some of Stan's ridiculously weak basketball schedules should not have shrouded some of the problems with his basketball program the same EXACT thing should be said about our football results. The glorious Gator Bowl trip last year was built on beating 2 Sun Belt teams with losing records, a SWAC team, 4 SEC teams with a combined SEC record of 3-29 (only got those 3 wins because somebody HAD to win when those 4 played each other) and our one glorious win over mighty MTSU who did finish 8-4 but got no bowl bid. Now if Stans had built a good record over a bunch of nobodies and then got knocked out of the NCAA tournament in the first round (sort of like our bowl loss) you would have been all over his ass, but somehow you are willing to continue to give Mullen a pass. Heck, at least for the first half of Stans' tenure he actually had some teams that were legitimately good that actually beat other GOOD teams. Besides maybe one year (2010) Mullen hasn't really had that at all. NOBODY is asking Mullen to compete for championships but since 2010 under him we don't really do much with any SEC team unless they are in a severe down cycle. So bring him on back for another year if you want, which I can live with if we aren't bringing in Hud, but after 5 years I pretty much know what I'm getting with him and that's a minor bowl to no bowl which is TOTALLY dependent on the number of teams with a pulse on the schedule. But hey, we're just MSU, we shouldn't expect any better results and should feel fortunate we beat bad teams.

Strong post. VERY strong.

[Tbonewannabe]

Also this is NOTHING like Cohen and a few people wanting him fired. Most of those people were during Cohen's first two years when we were having losing seasons and I think some people had the thought "well, Polk may have been right after all" based on the on the field results and the clashing that was going on between Cohen and some of the players. But how many people actually wanted Cohen fired the past three years? Not very many.

But the biggest difference is Cohen's teams have objectively improved and he has recruited very well- really he has recruited well the entire time he has been here.

Dan started out well the first two years, and then whatever happened and we have gotten unexplainably predictable on offense to go along with baffling personnel decisions. And it has gotten worse every year.

All I needed to know about Cohen's first years were, he had to use the senior right fielder who hadn't pitched since high school to close out a SEC game. Polk didn't have many pitchers on the roster that would have made a Juco team. That would be like if when Dan took over we didn't have an Olineman bigger than 220 lbs.

[Coach34]

Coach, you are really losing me with some of your logic.

We were 4-4 in the SEC last season. It doesnt matter what their combined record was. We were 4-4 in the SEC. That's like saying Bama shouldnt be ranked as high because they have beaten Tenn, Kentucky, and UPig already and those teams arent very good. The SEC is the SEC

It's retarded to try and compare basketball to football- you can't. It's a different world in the SEC. SEC football = Big East basketball

[HancockCountyDog]

Im still on the Mullen bandwagon - (Though one more Read option with Russell may do me in) - But this is the issue with me, assuming we lose this weekend, Mullen's SEC record will be 14-24; Croom's was 10-30;

Croom is widely considered the worst coach in our history. No one can argue that Croom inherited a terrible recruiting class from Jackie and overall the program was probably at it's lowest point. Mullen inherited the best recruiting class of the last decade and a roster that had multiple NFL draft picks and a QB that fit his offense extremely well.

If he ends the season with a 14-26 SEC record, how does he keep his job? He will have achieved a .8 SEC game win per season improvement from the worst coach in our history, while OM fielded two of the worst bear teams of all time, Ky was terrible, worst AU team in 50 years, a terrible UPig program, and we got UT with Dooley. That is my biggest issue - he should be doing more. Being better than Croom really doesn't do much for me.

[engie]

You sir are correct. I am 70 been a bulldog for 50 of those and this is exactly what we have been doing for those 50 years. Go and look. We change coaches, The new guy wins with the other coaches guys, then losses and what do we do. Change coaches. Eight coaches in 50 years. 6 x 8 = 48 Case closed.

How many teams -- even the uber-successful ones -- have had fewer than 8 coaches in 50 years?

[Percho]

Umm....have you ever thought that maybe we shouldn't hang on to these guys so long that they take us all the way back down to the bottom of the league before we fire them? My God, it is easy to see why we always have sucked and always will suck. Even the people that have seen the same cycle over and over and over and over for 70 damn years, can't even see what needs to be done...but instead want to repeat it AGAIN! Percho, what happens if Mullen wins 5 next year and then 3 the next? Keep holding on? I mean, surely that's the problem right? We aren't letting these coaches deep enough into the shitter to eventually miraculously climb out of it, right?

Ho. Ly. Smokes. Sometimes I just shake my head at the comments I read.

Well instead of giving a coach a little over 6 years what do you think any given coach should be given? Three and a half to five years. The one we kept the longest was the King and even you I think would admit the King had a lot going against him the last couple of years. Maybe we should have kept him. Maybe it wasn't all his fault. Maybe the bottom will fall out if we keep CDM. I promise you that if we fire him in six more years we will be firing another one.

Would someone please post the Tommy West vid again.

[Todd4State]

Im still on the Mullen bandwagon - (Though one more Read option with Russell may do me in) - But this is the issue with me, assuming we lose this weekend, Mullen's SEC record will be 14-24; Croom's was 10-30;

Croom is widely considered the worst coach in our history. No one can argue that Croom inherited a terrible recruiting class from Jackie and overall the program was probably at it's lowest point. Mullen inherited the best recruiting class of the last decade and a roster that had multiple NFL draft picks and a QB that fit his offense extremely well.

If he ends the season with a 14-26 SEC record, how does he keep his job? He will have achieved a .8 SEC game win per season improvement from the worst coach in our history, while OM fielded two of the worst bear teams of all time, Ky was terrible, worst AU team in 50 years, a terrible UPig program, and we got UT with Dooley. That is my biggest issue - he should be doing more. Being better than Croom really doesn't do much for me.

Charley Shira disagrees.

[engie]

It's retarded to try and compare basketball to football- you can't. It's a different world in the SEC. SEC football = Big East basketball

So, it should be even more cut throat then?

[Tbonewannabe]

Im still on the Mullen bandwagon - (Though one more Read option with Russell may do me in) - But this is the issue with me, assuming we lose this weekend, Mullen's SEC record will be 14-24; Croom's was 10-30;

Croom is widely considered the worst coach in our history. No one can argue that Croom inherited a terrible recruiting class from Jackie and overall the program was probably at it's lowest point. Mullen inherited the best recruiting class of the last decade and a roster that had multiple NFL draft picks and a QB that fit his offense extremely well.

If he ends the season with a 14-26 SEC record, how does he keep his job? He will have achieved a .8 SEC game win per season improvement from the worst coach in our history, while OM fielded two of the worst bear teams of all time, Ky was terrible, worst AU team in 50 years, a terrible UPig program, and we got UT with Dooley. That is my biggest issue - he should be doing more. Being better than Croom really doesn't do much for me.

Croom's wins over Bama and Auburn are discounted because they weren't national title contenders but Mullen gets a pass since he is beating these teams. Mullen raised the floor but also had help since now with the Espn deal SEC > any other conference in football. Playing in the SEC is better than playing in any other conference. This makes Mullen's recruiting easier since now we can offer Damian Williams in Jan and get him to flip. Mullen's teams are better than Crooms so we don't lose to La Tech but we do go to OT to beat them. We do go to Troy and complete a 4th down pass for a TD to win by 6. We do squeak one out against UAB.

But we don't lose them so now we can go to Birmingham and beat our chest over beating UK (no SEC wins), Ark (no SEC wins) and hopefully UM (home team almost ALWAYS WINS). We did beat the shit out of Alcorn and Troy this year so all is well.

[HancockCountyDog]

Here is the problem that I see going forward - for schools like ours we have to do something different to be competitive - i.e. up tempo, spread you out, running QB type offense or big time power - milk the clock and play stanford level defense.

Right now, we don't have an identity. I thought we would be up tempo, spread you out and run our big damn QB all over you, or use Harvin speed sweeps or option plays with Dak and Lewis, it just hasn't happened. I swear our playbook has gotten smaller in year 5.

A part of me wants to chalk all of this up to Mullen trying to fit Russell into his offense because of all of the pressure of basically telling a Parade All American QB that has NFL size and arm to basically take a hike is simply something he couldn't do. Looking back, I wish he had, I think we would be further along as a program.

[Todd4State]

Well instead of giving a coach a little over 6 years what do you think any given coach should be given? Three and a half to five years. The one we kept the longest was the King and even you I think would admit the King had a lot going against him the last couple of years. Maybe we should have kept him. Maybe it wasn't all his fault. Maybe the bottom will fall out if we keep CDM. I promise you that if we fire him in six more years we will be firing another one.

Would someone please post the Tommy West vid again.

We've given Dan five years already. We are not getting any better. The man looks like he doesn't care most of the time. We are a 6-6 type program right now- and we should be an 8-10 win program by now if he was making proper progress.

Every coach is different. Jackie is irrelevant in this matter.

[HancockCountyDog]

Charley Shira disagrees.

I wasn't alive when he coached, so I guess I should say my lifetime. lol

[HancockCountyDog]

We've given Dan five years already. We are not getting any better. The man looks like he doesn't care most of the time. We are a 6-6 type program right now- and we should be an 8-10 win program by now if he was making proper progress.

Every coach is different. Jackie is irrelevant in this matter.

I disagree with this - he clearly cares. He wants to win. My concern is that when he is calling read option play calls with Russell at QB, he simply cannot call a game without a running QB. He seems to be unable to realize that when Russell is in the game - that a QB counter on 3rd and 3 is a bad play call.

[stxdawg]

If it is decided that Dan is going to be our coach next year, we all just need to get behind him. It will hurt recruiting if their is dissention in our fan base. The bears will use it against us.

Also, please tell me what our offense will look like under some other new coach? We are putting together the type of talent to restore the kind of offense that Dan is comfortable running. With Dak in place as our QB for the next few years, I'd hate to see a new coach come in that mess up what he does best and that fits Dan's system.

[Tbonewannabe]

If it is decided that Dan is going to be our coach next year, we all just need to get behind him. It will hurt recruiting if their is dissention in our fan base. The bears will use it against us.

Also, please tell me what our offense will look like under some other new coach? We are putting together the type of talent to restore the kind of offense that Dan is comfortable running. With Dak in place as our QB for the next few years, I'd hate to see a new coach come in that mess up what he does best and that fits Dan's system.

Very few coaches don't use a running QB now. Unless you are Bama or LSU people use their QB. Mobility is almost a necessity in college football.

[Percho]

We've given Dan five years already. We are not getting any better. The man looks like he doesn't care most of the time. We are a 6-6 type program right now- and we should be an 8-10 win program by now if he was making proper progress.

Every coach is different. Jackie is irrelevant in this matter.

He has looked like he cared the last couple of games.

Look I am not a big Mullen supporter. He has not proven to me he will be a good to great head coach. I am just saying, at MSU it has been shown through the years that changing head coaches is not real successful in the over all betterment of the program.

I would like for CDM to do a search in all ranks of the game for a defense coach with a scheme for attacking the hurry up spread. To me that would start him toward being a good to great coach.

I believe he has our offense on the right track.

[maroonmania]

If it is decided that Dan is going to be our coach next year, we all just need to get behind him. It will hurt recruiting if their is dissention in our fan base. The bears will use it against us.

Also, please tell me what our offense will look like under some other new coach? We are putting together the type of talent to restore the kind of offense that Dan is comfortable running. With Dak in place as our QB for the next few years, I'd hate to see a new coach come in that mess up what he does best and that fits Dan's system.

I agree with this, but I would like to see Dan do something with the team in the last 2 games to warrant being brought back. If he doesn't we will have a lot of fans that will just start saying the heck with it. I believe at this stage the fanbase just needs something good to happen to have a reason to believe Mullen can get things going back in a positive direction.

[maroonmania]

He has looked like he cared the last couple of games.

Look I am not a big Mullen supporter. He has not proven to me he will be a good to great head coach. I am just saying, at MSU it has been shown through the years that changing head coaches is not real successful in the over all betterment of the program.

I would like for CDM to do a search in all ranks of the game for a defense coach with a scheme for attacking the hurry up spread. To me that would start him toward being a good to great coach.

I believe he has our offense on the right track.

It ALWAYS depends on who you change to. We've just historically not been good at hiring coaches because we've had even worse ADs over the years than coaches. But just think where Bama would be today had they stuck with Shula another year or 2 and had missed out on Saban. And they went through a number of coaching changes before they hit the jackpot.

[Goat Holder]

......while OM fielded two of the worst bear teams of all time, Ky was terrible, worst AU team in 50 years, a terrible UPig program, and we got UT with Dooley. That is my biggest issue - he should be doing more. Being better than Croom really doesn't do much for me.

This is the most terrible logic I have ever seen. When MSU DOES beat people, it was because they weren't good. Well f*ck those teams and f*ck everybody that feels the same way you do. It's not our fault those teams sucked. We beat their ass, deal with it.

[MadDawg]

Umm....the same cycle over and over and over and over for 70 damn years, can't even see what needs to be done...but instead want to repeat it AGAIN!

Uh, I think he's arguing AGAINST doing the same thing over and over and over again.

[Percho]

It ALWAYS depends on who you change to. We've just historically not been good at hiring coaches because we've had even worse ADs over the years than coaches. But just think where Bama would be today had they stuck with Shula another year or 2 and had missed out on Saban. And they went through a number of coaching changes before they hit the jackpot.

I agree 100%. You throw the dice and see what comes up. That is what I think OM is doing with the freezer.

[MadDawg]

We've given Dan five years already. We are not getting any better. The man looks like he doesn't care most of the time. We are a 6-6 type program right now- and we should be an 8-10 win program by now if he was making proper progress.

You really think 8-10 wins per year is realistic? That means never going below .500 in the SEC.

[Goat Holder]

Agreed.

[Homedawg]

Yep. 2 straight years of suck. If we hadn't had the easiest non con schedule in the country last year, plus Auburn sucking, Ark sucking, and Tennessee sucking.....the Mullen defenders would be singing a different tune. Unfortunately ey're all blind as shit and can't read between the lines. By the way....what did those 3 teams do when their coaches sucked for a season or two? Yep, every damn one of em was fired. But by all means, let's keep talking up that big 8-5 season last year. It is ridiculous.

Actually, auburn fires their coach after one poor season. Tennessee sucked for three years before firing Dooley and Smith was an interim and wasn't going to be re-hired no matter what.

[DownwardDawg]

My stance doesn't change because you invent "flaws." No, I don't believe that we are an elite team, but that doesn't mean I don't want us to be. No, I'm not ignoring the finish of last season, but other than the bowl and the Egg Bowl, there wasn't a bad loss and we played alot of GOOD teams. No, I don't believe that firing Mullen is "best for MSU," mainly because I am pretty certain that we aren't going to get an improvement in coaching by cutting our most successful coach in recent history after one losing season. No, I don't believe that our recruiting is getting worse (although I don't think it's getting better).

All I'm saying is that cutting Mullen loose now would be the worst thing we could do for the program. If we EVER want to have sustained coaching success, we have to create a pattern of support and not cutting our losses as soon as things go poorly. Let's say we do fire him this year and somehow the almighty HUD comes in and has a winning season. Why would he want to stick around if a big boy gives him another offer? Answer: He wouldn't. Why stick around somewhere where you might get run out of town the next year and have NO job when you can go to a better school with more money today where you are pretty sure you'll get a few years at least.If we start firing our successful coaches because of down years, we will become a springboard for coaches to move from the ULLs of the world to the UFs of the world.

Everyone on the board stopped reading after this. This shows you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. Hud has family all around the Starkville area. He is home grown. He wants to be at State bad. I know one of his relatives. If he gets the State job, he will be paid millions of dollars to coach on national television each week in the SEC while living at "home". He'll be surrounded by friends and family. He would not leave.
The flip side of that though is that if he takes a big SEC job, say Arkansas, Florida, South Carolina, he ain't gonna give up millions a year at a winning program to come back home. Once he lands his SEC job, he's done.

[Goat Holder]

Not to mention Stans had been here like 12 years. I think he was given plenty of chances. And Stans wasn't just fired for Ws and Ls anyway, a lot more to that story.

[DownwardDawg]

You really think 8-10 wins per year is realistic? That means never going below .500 in the SEC.

8 wins should be expected.

[TimberBeast]

Everyone believed we were saving something for Bama since we weren't looking very good against the teams we were beating.

And do you all not remember who started that BS line of thinking and constantly posted it over the first half of the season last year?

[bully99]

Long thread.. Some good. Some bad. Some weird..But lots of fun reading the back and forth.

[Quaoarsking]

8 wins should be expected.

Until the SEC or NCAA does something about the huge revenue disparity, averaging an 8-4 season is not realistic.

[Madkinmecrazy]

Umm....have you ever thought that maybe we shouldn't hang on to these guys so long that they take us all the way back down to the bottom of the league before we fire them? My God, it is easy to see why we always have sucked and always will suck. Even the people that have seen the same cycle over and over and over and over for 70 damn years, can't even see what needs to be done...but instead want to repeat it AGAIN! Percho, what happens if Mullen wins 5 next year and then 3 the next? Keep holding on? I mean, surely that's the problem right? We aren't letting these coaches deep enough into the shitter to eventually miraculously climb out of it, right?

Ho. Ly. Smokes. Sometimes I just shake my head at the comments I read.

You know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

[PMDawg]

You know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

yeah, we should definitely try your approach instead. Let's hire a coach and give him free reign for no less than 20 years. No matter what the results. Seems entirely logical and well thought out.

While you're defining words, can you define "troll"?

[Madkinmecrazy]

Everyone on the board stopped reading after this. This shows you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. Hud has family all around the Starkville area. He is home grown. He wants to be at State bad. I know one of his relatives. If he gets the State job, he will be paid millions of dollars to coach on national television each week in the SEC while living at "home". He'll be surrounded by friends and family. He would not leave.
The flip side of that though is that if he takes a big SEC job, say Arkansas, Florida, South Carolina, he ain't gonna give up millions a year at a winning program to come back home. Once he lands his SEC job, he's done.

I'm glad you know one of Huds relatives, I hope that makes you feel super special.

My point is that our fan base doesn't give a shit how many of his relatives you know or how much he likes Mississippi. We'll run him out of town after a down year too, and we'll question why we ever hired someone so inept. We'll make up some dumbass excuses about how Stricklin is ruining the program and Bracky makes us lose football games.

Our problem, as a fan base, is that we can't accept reality. We are having a bad year. It's not all because of Mullen. It's not all because of Bracky (he probably saved us from lost schollys). Its not going to get better by cleaning house and starting over with a guy that is completely unproved outside of the Sunbelt.

Tell Hud's cousins I say hello.

[HoopsDawg]

I'm glad you know one of Huds relatives, I hope that makes you feel super special.

My point is that our fan base doesn't give a shit how many of his relatives you know or how much he likes Mississippi. We'll run him out of town after a down year too, and we'll question why we ever hired someone so inept. We'll make up some dumbass excuses about how Stricklin is ruining the program and Bracky makes us lose football games.

Our problem, as a fan base, is that we can't accept reality. We are having a bad year. It's not all because of Mullen. It's not all because of Bracky (he probably saved us from lost schollys). Its not going to get better by cleaning house and starting over with a guy that is completely unproved outside of the Sunbelt.

Tell Hud's cousins I say hello.

your username is terrible and your posts are terrible. we have probably the most patient and non-delusional fan base in the country. The fact that we can have a 9 page thread debating Mullen's job security proves that. There's not another team in the SEC that would keep him if he finishes 4-8 this year. He only has 1 year in 5 to hang his hat on and that was 3 years ago.

[Madkinmecrazy]

yeah, we should definitely try your approach instead. Let's hire a coach and give him free reign for no less than 20 years. No matter what the results. Seems entirely logical and well thought out.

While you're defining words, can you define "troll"?

I didn't say 20 years, I just said that you don't fire a coach after one losing season.... especially after 3 straight bowl games that followed some of the worst years in MSU football history.

[engie]

Mine from the Pack -- but applicable here.

If Mullen finishes this year 5-7, he will be 34-29(.540) overall. In terms of SEC games, he would be 15-25(.375).
We are 536-535-40(.501) all-time on the field. In terms of SEC games, it is 200-368-18(.358) on the field.

Mullen is only 3.9% above our historical average in all games -- and only 1.7% above our historical average in SEC games.

By the purest of numbers(on-field results), Mullen hasn't "elevated us a tier" at all. He's been average -- even by our own lowly historical standards.

[Jack Lambert]

Man this thread has really turned into some serious personal attacks which is why many left Six Pack Speak.

[Madkinmecrazy]

your username is terrible and your posts are terrible. we have probably the most patient and non-delusional fan base in the country. The fact that we can have a 9 page thread debating Mullen's job security proves that. There's not another team in the SEC that would keep him if he finishes 4-8 this year. He only has 1 year in 5 to hang his hat on and that was 3 years ago.

There is absolutely nothing patient and non-delusional about demanding that the most successful coach in recent history be fired after 3 back-to-back-to-back bowl appearances because of a single down season.

[HoopsDawg]

There is absolutely nothing patient and non-delusional about demanding that the most successful coach in recent history be fired after 3 back-to-back-to-back bowl appearances because of a single down season.

If you choose to ignore all of the FACTS that engie has posted in this thread, then there is nothing I can say.

[CadaverDawg]

Uh, I think he's arguing AGAINST doing the same thing over and over and over again.

No, he THINKS he is arguing against it....but in reality, KEEPING Mullen will be history repeating itself because we will be allowing him to ruin everything he has built up. Going against our shitty history would be to see that we are trending downwards, admit it, thank him for his services, and hire an up and comer like Hudspeth that can recruit better than Dan. THAT would be not repeating history.

That's what some of our fans don't understand. It's not the firing a coach every 5 years that has kept us from never maintaining success....it's the allowing coaches to stay 1-2 years TOO LONG, and allowing them to ruin all positive momentum. That's why every damn coach we have is stuck in rebuild mode for their first few years. That's also why we never can get a really good coach to come in here. If we would actually watch what is happening not he field and make a change while the cupboard is still full...we could actually propel the program out of this endless cycle of build/rebuild that we've been in for 80 years

[CadaverDawg]

If you choose to ignore all of the FACTS that engie has posted in this thread, then there is nothing I can say.

Exactly.

And don't be surprised if several of these Mullen defenders are ole miss trolls. After all, they DO want Mullen to stay....which clearly says "all is well", right?

[Pollodawg]

No, he THINKS he is arguing against it....but in reality, KEEPING Mullen will be history repeating itself because we will be allowing him to ruin everything he has built up. Going against our shitty history would be to see that we are trending downwards, admit it, thank him for his services, and hire an up and comer like Hudspeth that can recruit better than Dan. THAT would be not repeating history.

That's what some of our fans don't understand. It's not the firing a coach every 5 years that has kept us from never maintaining success....it's the allowing coaches to stay 1-2 years TOO LONG, and allowing them to ruin all positive momentum. That's why every damn coach we have is stuck in rebuild mode for their first few years. That's also why we never can get a really good coach to come in here. If we would actually watch what is happening not he field and make a change while the cupboard is still full...we could actually propel the program out of this endless cycle of build/rebuild that we've been in for 80 years
Can you type this any bigger, since a lot of people really need to read it. Waiting to long to pull the trigger on a coach is every bit as bad as pulling it too early. Let me compatre our football program to my health. When I feel sick, I wait a little while. If I don't feel better, I go to the Dr. I don't wait until I am half-dead to do something about it. We've waited that little while. We know the program isn't getting better. We started feeling the twinges in 2011, felt a little better, then the bottom fell out at the end of 2012. Why wait until UK and Arkansas are both better than we are to make a change?

[Pollodawg]

People. He's had time. This is not a knee jerk reaction. Since 2011, our team has not gotten one tiny bit better, and has actually gotten progressively worse. Mullen's 2011 team--which finished 7-6-- would have beaten the breaks off of the 2012 and 2013 squads. How can you explain this away?

[engie]

There is absolutely nothing patient and non-delusional about demanding that the most successful coach in recent history be fired after 3 back-to-back-to-back bowl appearances because of a single down season.

"Bowl games" is window dressing BS to prop him up -- when NOTHING about that accomplishment can be compared to previous MSU coaches.

- When Bellard took over here, there were 12 total bowl games -- meaning you had to finish in the top 24 to go: Rose, Orange, Sugar, Fiesta, Sun, Cotton, Gator, Citrus(Cap1), Liberty, Peach(ChickFilA), Independence, Holiday

- When Jackie took over here, there were 15 total bowl games -- meaning you had to finish in the top 30 to go: The above plus Hall of Fame(Outback), Copper(Buffalo Wild Wings), and Tangerine(Russell Athletics).

- When Croom took over here, there were 27 total bowl games.

- When Mullen took over here, there were 33 total bowl games. In his second year, 2 more were added: Heart of Dallas and Pinstripe Bowl. Taking the total number to 35.

- In 2014, there is expected to be 4 more bowls added: Bahamas, Boca Raton, Miami Beach, and Camellia bowls.

We're staring at 78 of 126 FBS teams playing bowl games next year.

By previous standards -- Mullen has had ONE bowl team here in 5 years.

[The Croom Diaries]

I thought one of the most interesting comments in this thread was that Croom had 10 SEC wins in 5 years, Mullen has 14 (with 3 more games this year).

Croom's 10 SEC wins were against teams that had a combined 57-66 record (.463)

Mullen's 14 SEC wins were against teams that had a combined 65-105 record (.382): includes UK's 2-7 record so far this year.

UK and OM account for EIGHT of Mullen's 14 wins. Basically the difference between the two right now is that Mullen has been able to beat OM and UK (Croom only won 4 vs. those two)....and they sucked just as hard - losing records for UK in 04 and 05, OM in 04, 05, 06, 07. Plus Mullen has been able to beat non-conference patsies that we should have been beating all along....including 5 FCS teams.

[HancockCountyDog]

At the end of the day Mullen's best team was the 2010 team; It was his best team because the defense had 7-8 NFL players on it. We won't have that much talent on our defense or offense every year. He has to figure out how to get to 8-9 wins without all of that talent - or he has to get that type of talent to Starkville.

It can be done, the current team is talented, but the bone headed decisions have to stop;

[HancockCountyDog]

I thought one of the most interesting comments in this thread was that Croom had 10 SEC wins in 5 years, Mullen has 14 (with 3 more games this year).

Croom's 10 SEC wins were against teams that had a combined 57-66 record (.463)

Mullen's 14 SEC wins were against teams that had a combined 65-105 record (.382): includes UK's 2-7 record so far this year.

UK and OM account for EIGHT of Mullen's 14 wins. Basically the difference between the two right now is that Mullen has been able to beat OM and UK (Croom only won 4 vs. those two)....and they sucked just as hard - losing records for UK in 04 and 05, OM in 04, 05, 06, 07. Plus Mullen has been able to beat non-conference patsies that we should have been beating all along....including 5 FCS teams.

+1

I don't see how someone like Goat can look past this. Then again, im pretty sure he is bi-polar so give him a week and he will probably be agreeing with us.

I didn't realize how big the difference was in the SEC wins, but this is extremely telling. Ignoring the level of competition that our coach was able to defeat would be like what the bears did with Nutt. They ignored the fact that LSU in 08-09 was downright average (8-8) SEC record during those years, and just focused on the record. What happened next was the 2010 and 2011 seasons;

[Tbonewannabe]

I thought one of the most interesting comments in this thread was that Croom had 10 SEC wins in 5 years, Mullen has 14 (with 3 more games this year).

Croom's 10 SEC wins were against teams that had a combined 57-66 record (.463)

Mullen's 14 SEC wins were against teams that had a combined 65-105 record (.382): includes UK's 2-7 record so far this year.

UK and OM account for EIGHT of Mullen's 14 wins. Basically the difference between the two right now is that Mullen has been able to beat OM and UK (Croom only won 4 vs. those two)....and they sucked just as hard - losing records for UK in 04 and 05, OM in 04, 05, 06, 07. Plus Mullen has been able to beat non-conference patsies that we should have been beating all along....including 5 FCS teams.

UK was a bowl team a few times during Croom's years.

[Tbonewannabe]

At the end of the day Mullen's best team was the 2010 team; It was his best team because the defense had 7-8 NFL players on it. We won't have that much talent on our defense or offense every year. He has to figure out how to get to 8-9 wins without all of that talent - or he has to get that type of talent to Starkville.

It can be done, the current team is talented, but the bone headed decisions have to stop;

Mullen also had the best pair of corners in college football last year and only beat one team with a winning record (MTSU).

[Madisonmd]

One of the Foundation members said Mullen would be back next year. He said buyout money is a real issue at this time and he is one that they would call.

[jimbo352]

5 seasons in... 6th season coming more than likely, and we're talking about 6 wins with that schedule...?

I hate to break this to some of you... It doesn't take 6 years to build a program... If he hasn't done it by now, he won't ever do it IMO... I'm not saying Mullen can't make us a 6 or 7 win team on a regular basis, but that's not good enough for me long term.


I see both sides of the story here... On one hand, you look bad if you fire a coach has has done better than most coaches have here... I can somewhat understand the mindset of giving him a chance to turn things around... On the other hand... Why is he having to turn things around in years 5 and 6...? Why is our recruiting so blah in year 5/6...? Shouldn't Mullen have great relationships with these kids considering how bad TSUN was for those 2 years(these kids now were sophomores)...?

All this talk about never being able to keep or find a coach if we fire a decent one for a bad year is nonsense... You can get just about anyone to coach for the right $... Period... There isn't an OC from most major schools, or a HC from CUSA/Sunbelt/Mac in the country that would turn down an SEC gig, and that's where we find our coaches anyway... GTFO with all that nonsense... On top of all that... What coach goes into a job thinking he could fail, and fears job security... That's right, coaches who aren't worth a shit(or don't believe in their ability)... If we get turned down by a coach, because he thinks 5 years isn't long enough to build a program, we don't want him anyway...

It comes down to this... The AD is suppose to do what is best for our MSU in Athletics, regardless of what the media says(or even what our fans say)... If He's keeping Mullen because he thinks it best, so be it, but he will pay the consequences.... If he's keeping Mullen because we may or may not be able to attract a coach here, because those coaches fear being fired 6 years down the road... He should quit his ****ing job right now, because he isn't doing it right... Any AD worth a shit would have a short list of coaches ready RIGHT NOW... He should have already contacted people about interest levels, to make sure the list is possible...

I just rambled, but I don't care... **** it, I'm going live...

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

5 seasons in... 6th season coming more than likely, and we're talking about 6 wins with that schedule...?

I hate to break this to some of you... It doesn't take 6 years to build a program... If he hasn't done it by now, he won't ever do it IMO... I'm not saying Mullen can't make us a 6 or 7 win team on a regular basis, but that's not good enough for me long term.

Yeah it basically boils down to will Mullen go to a bowl game next year? Yes...he will probably win 7 games or so next year and we will go bowling.

But...could pretty much any coach we would be able to hire go to a bowl game next year with that schedule? Yes. And maybe even better. I would like to risk it.

[CadaverDawg]

I thought one of the most interesting comments in this thread was that Croom had 10 SEC wins in 5 years, Mullen has 14 (with 3 more games this year).

Croom's 10 SEC wins were against teams that had a combined 57-66 record (.463)

Mullen's 14 SEC wins were against teams that had a combined 65-105 record (.382): includes UK's 2-7 record so far this year.

UK and OM account for EIGHT of Mullen's 14 wins. Basically the difference between the two right now is that Mullen has been able to beat OM and UK (Croom only won 4 vs. those two)....and they sucked just as hard - losing records for UK in 04 and 05, OM in 04, 05, 06, 07. Plus Mullen has been able to beat non-conference patsies that we should have been beating all along....including 5 FCS teams.

Damn, reading that makes it even more pathetic than I already thought it was. Thanks for the numbers Croom Diaries

[The Croom Diaries]

UK was a bowl team a few times during Croom's years.

UK and OM during Croom years: 4 bowl games in 10 combined seasons (3 UK, 1 OM).

UK and OM during Mullen years: 5 bowl games in 10 combined seasons (2 UK, 3 OM).

[Coach34]

One of the Foundation members said Mullen would be back next year. He said buyout money is a real issue at this time and he is one that they would call.

I'm sure it would be...5MM or so is nothing to sneeze at

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

Damn, reading that makes it even more pathetic than I already thought it was. Thanks for the numbers Croom Diaries

And at least Croom's recruiting got better as he went on.

[CadaverDawg]

And at least Croom's recruiting got better as he went on.

True

[C222]

Thats the message being put out there so when Dan leaves for another school at the end of the year it won't look like we forced him out and that we had intentions of bringing him back.

[Bully13]

Until the SEC or NCAA does something about the huge revenue disparity, averaging an 8-4 season is not realistic.

have you forgotten the recent upsets by ole miss and vanderbilt? were there not huge revenue disparites between bama and MSU when sherill kicked bama's ass 3 out of 4 years ? how did croom beat bama?

these big revenue guys got there by DEDICATING themselves to winning and not whining

the low revenue teams in this conference get HUGE wealth re-distribution money from the big guys... we benefit HUGELY.... asking for more is just bellyaching

while at Tech, tubberville tried to tell the big 12 to do revenue sharing like the SEC if they wanted the conference to survive...believe me, if you want to see something much worse, check out what it would be like if we were in another conference... the SEC is VERY friendly to the lower tiered teams when it comes to revenue sharing

sit back and watch ky, VU, upig and ole miss do the right thing and bypass us because they are committed while we sit back and whine....

let's go ahead and turn another player into the SEC for asking for money while were at it since that worked out so damn good before

let's look at our own damned faces in the mirror before we start bitching about other people's money for a second and maybe we can make some progress


on average, private school students get 4 X the education as a public school student and the govt spends 4 X the money on each student compared to what parents spend on a private school student but the private school student graduates and is ready for the IVY league while the public school student can't fill out a job application despite the fact that his/her education cost 4 X more.....

bottom line: money is not always the answers to failure; dedication to improvement and hard work is

[The Croom Diaries]

If Mullen doesn't beat Bama tomorrow his record vs. FBS teams would be 28-29.

[Todd4State]

You really think 8-10 wins per year is realistic? That means never going below .500 in the SEC.

4-0 Non-conference.

4-4 in the SEC.

That's 8 wins, and bowl is typically a toss up as far as whether we win or lose.

So, yes- as long as we don't try to get brownie points for the most difficult schedule in America every year, we can do that.

[CadaverDawg]

4-0 Non-conference.

4-4 in the SEC.

That's 8 wins, and bowl is typically a toss up as far as whether we win or lose.

So, yes- as long as we don't try to get brownie points for the most difficult schedule in America every year, we can do that.

I agree. And I am perfectly fine with occasionally having a 7-5 record and a bowl win to achieve that 8th. So that means we could go 4-0 OOC and 3-5 in the SEC and win a bowl occasionally. It's not like we are asking for 11-2 after a bowl game....we're asking for .500 or even a game below .500 in the SEC, and 4 wins over lesser opponents. If that is "asking for too much", then we have some serious issues.

[Coach34]

I agree. And I am perfectly fine with occasionally having a 7-5 record and a bowl win to achieve that 8th. So that means we could go 4-0 OOC and 3-5 in the SEC and win a bowl occasionally. It's not like we are asking for 11-2 after a bowl game....we're asking for .500 or even a game below .500 in the SEC, and 4 wins over lesser opponents. If that is "asking for too much", then we have some serious issues.

That is too much for our program. We are not going to average 8 wins under any coach. Especially when we are playing 5 Top 15 teams per season. For all the dick sucking Freezus gets, he has a legit chance to finish 3-5 in the SEC this year and 7-5 overall

Can we win 8-9 games at times? Absolutely. But to average 8 wins over 4-5 year period? No ****ing way. Not at Miss State

[CadaverDawg]

That is too much for our program. We are not going to average 8 wins under any coach. Especially when we are playing 5 Top 15 teams per season. For all the dick sucking Freezus gets, he has a legit chance to finish 3-5 in the SEC this year and 7-5 overall

Can we win 8-9 games at times? Absolutely. But to average 8 wins over 4-5 year period? No ****ing way. Not at Miss State

I just said 7-5 was acceptable. And why is it "no ****ing way"? Why can't we beat JSU, Troy, UAB, MTSU every year, plus 4 of the following Kentucky, Vandy, Arkansas, Ole Miss, Auburn, A&M, LSU?

We beat UK, you say we should easily beat Arkansas, and you think we will beat Ole miss. Ole miss beat Vandy and LSU and you think we are as good as Ole miss. So why can't we win 4 SEC games per year? This goes against everything you've been saying.

I'm not saying we HAVE to win 8....but shooting for 7-8 each year is not "asking for too much". Unless we're a bunch of woe is us pussies, which I'm beginning to think a majority of our fans are.

[Todd4State]

That is too much for our program. We are not going to average 8 wins under any coach. Especially when we are playing 5 Top 15 teams per season. For all the dick sucking Freezus gets, he has a legit chance to finish 3-5 in the SEC this year and 7-5 overall

Can we win 8-9 games at times? Absolutely. But to average 8 wins over 4-5 year period? No ****ing way. Not at Miss State

If we play Oklahoma State every year, then no it's not.

But we can beat Jackson State, Tulane, South Alabama and Middle Tennessee State every year.

We can beat Kentucky, Arkansas and Ole Miss this year. Pull off an upset- even a mild one like Auburn or Texas A&M and there's 4-4. And then win the bowl. Even without the upset, that's 8-5.

[FlabLoser]

That is too much for our program. We are not going to average 8 wins under any coach. Especially when we are playing 5 Top 15 teams per season. For all the dick sucking Freezus gets, he has a legit chance to finish 3-5 in the SEC this year and 7-5 overall

Can we win 8-9 games at times? Absolutely. But to average 8 wins over 4-5 year period? No ****ing way. Not at Miss State

I have higher expectations than you. Six wins ought to be our floor. 7-8-9 wins most years. 10 or 11 on a good year when things line up just right.

[CadaverDawg]

My biggest complaint is everybody comparing us to our history. THIS IS NOT YOUR DADDY'S SEC anymore. Quit comparing us to what we have done in the past. We are doing an 80 million dollar renovation and the conference is the most powerful in the country. It's time for us to grow the **** up and start expecting more.

Stop being scared and pointing back to shit from the past. We are paying coaches nearly 3 million per year to coach our football team. We can recruit in the top 25 yearly, we can pay our coach a top 25 salary, and we are in the top conference...we should be somewhere around the top 25 to top 40 every year going forward if we are achieving simply what we are capable of achieving. Over achieve here and there, and we could finish in the top 15-20 on occasion.

Doesn't mean slipping up and going 6-6 can't happen....but we shouldn't be giving ****ing contract extensions for a 5-7 or 6-6 record anymore. That shit is pathetic.

[HoopsDawg]

That is too much for our program. We are not going to average 8 wins under any coach. Especially when we are playing 5 Top 15 teams per season. For all the dick sucking Freezus gets, he has a legit chance to finish 3-5 in the SEC this year and 7-5 overall

Can we win 8-9 games at times? Absolutely. But to average 8 wins over 4-5 year period? No ****ing way. Not at Miss State


I don't get that caught up in w/l records. You have to judge that on a season by season basis. I enjoyed Mullen's first year when we finished 5-7 a hell of lot more than our puffed up 8-5 season last year.

[Goat Holder]

I thought one of the most interesting comments in this thread was that Croom had 10 SEC wins in 5 years, Mullen has 14 (with 3 more games this year).

Croom's 10 SEC wins were against teams that had a combined 57-66 record (.463)

Mullen's 14 SEC wins were against teams that had a combined 65-105 record (.382): includes UK's 2-7 record so far this year.

Misleading stats. First thing that jumps out at me is that Mullen has won 40% more SEC games than Croom over 5 years. That stat looks real nice for Mullen, eh? Not mention beating the CUSA/Sun Belt types that Croom (and Jackie) never could. Way to trivialize that. What a joke.

And how you going to compare 14 teams' records to 10 teams' records? That's one sample size of 123 games and another of 170 games.

Nice whiff, Babe Ruth. Or should I say Brad Corley. Better yet Daryl Norris.

[HancockCountyDog]

My biggest complaint is everybody comparing us to our history. THIS IS NOT YOUR DADDY'S SEC anymore. Quit comparing us to what we have done in the past. We are doing an 80 million dollar renovation and the conference is the most powerful in the country. It's time for us to grow the **** up and start expecting more.

Stop being scared and pointing back to shit from the past. We are paying coaches nearly 3 million per year to coach our football team. We can recruit in the top 25 yearly, we can pay our coach a top 25 salary, and we are in the top conference...we should be somewhere around the top 25 to top 40 every year going forward if we are achieving simply what we are capable of achieving. Over achieve here and there, and we could finish in the top 15-20

This times a million.

You know how many Pac 10/12 championships Oregon won in the 50 years before Belotti showed up? One in 1994 by Rich Brooks. One Pac championship in 50 years.

Funny you don't hear Oregon fans bitching about their history anymore.

Prior to 1989, they had been to 6 bowls in their program's history.

[CadaverDawg]

I don't get that caught up in w/l records. You have to judge that on a season by season basis. I enjoyed Mullen's first year when we finished 5-7 a hell of lot more than our puffed up 8-5 season last year.

Exactly. Too many people are ignoring what is happening weekly on the field. They are letting meaningless wins over cream puffs cloud their judgement and blind them of the shitty play and coaching blunders.

[Goat Holder]

So has Mullen's, per Scout:

2009: 19 (Both Croom and Mullen get credit for this)
2010: 38
2011: 45
2012: 18
2013: 22

You all have gone off the deep end.

[HancockCountyDog]

Misleading stats. First thing that jumps out at me is that Mullen has won 40% more SEC games than Croom over 5 years. That stat looks real nice for Mullen, eh? Not mention beating the CUSA/Sun Belt types that Croom (and Jackie) never could. Way to trivialize that. What a joke.

And how you going to compare 14 teams' records to 10 teams' records? That's one sample size of 123 games and another of 170 games.

Nice whiff, Babe Ruth. Or should I say Brad Corley. Better yet Daryl Norris.

Just sad to be honest.

[HoopsDawg]

Misleading stats. First thing that jumps out at me is that Mullen has won 40% more SEC games than Croom over 5 years. That stat looks real nice for Mullen, eh? Not mention beating the CUSA/Sun Belt types that Croom (and Jackie) never could. Way to trivialize that. What a joke.

And how you going to compare 14 teams' records to 10 teams' records? That's one sample size of 123 games and another of 170 games.

Nice whiff, Babe Ruth. Or should I say Brad Corley. Better yet Daryl Norris.

If you aren't capable of acknowledging that Mullen inherited a MUCH better situation than Croom inherited then you can't talk with the grown ups. And remember, this is a Comparison to Croom, not Nick Saban, but freakin Sly Croom.

[RougeDawg]

You sure this wasnt a dream?

The admin I've heard from are saying starkly different things. They're just trying to determine if its worth it to pay the buyout. The next 3 weeks will push that buyout value one way orb the other.

The other scenario I was told, was DM is pursuing other job options, per request of the Admin. I've not heard not definite tatement saying dan stays no matter what.

[Statecoachingblows**]

This shit is gettin good! Wish this was on a talk show! Took 30 minutes to get to the end! (Without commercials)

[gravedigger]

This argument plus croom diaries is all I need.

I've been off the Mullen bandwagon for a couple of weeks now, but wins against Arkansas and om will no longer change my mind.

We are not getting better. Players have lost the fire to play for Mullen for whatever reason and I have no reason to believe a change would set us back.....for now. If we let this go on in another disappointing season with the media beating us up for underachieving, we will lose our opportunity to build on something.

I hear the friction is that HUD and Strick don't work together and HUD is putting stipulations on the relationship if he's hired. Stipulations that Keenum won't accept at this point.

I hope we find a way through this with as little damage as possible, but I do recognize the mistakes made in keeping bellard, felker, sherrill, to long and the advantage we kept in moving to Mullen as quickly as we did one year removed from a bowl win.

I think to put it in a political term, "lame duck" is the best way to describe our coaching staff right now.

[Todd4State]

You sure this wasnt a dream?

The admin I've heard from are saying starkly different things. They're just trying to determine if its worth it to pay the buyout. The next 3 weeks will push that buyout value one way orb the other.

The other scenario I was told, was DM is pursuing other job options, per request of the Admin. I've not heard not definite tatement saying dan stays no matter what.

And the way to know that is how we finish. If we finish well, the fans will show up next year. If we look bad then I gurantee you 5 million is a LOT less than what we would lose by bringing back Dan and a poor product.

The administration is still in cover their ass mode. They would look really stupid if they said that Dan wasn't coming back and then all of a sudden we go on a tear and finish with 8 wins including a bowl game.

Like many of our fans, they can probably speculate how things are likely going to go.

[Todd4State]

This shit is gettin good! Wish this was on a talk show! Took 30 minutes to get to the end! (Without commercials)

Starting tomorrow- no doubt. It's crunch time. And it's about to get good one way or the other.

[The Croom Diaries]

Misleading stats. First thing that jumps out at me is that Mullen has won 40% more SEC games than Croom over 5 years. That stat looks real nice for Mullen, eh? Not mention beating the CUSA/Sun Belt types that Croom (and Jackie) never could. Way to trivialize that. What a joke.

And how you going to compare 14 teams' records to 10 teams' records? That's one sample size of 123 games and another of 170 games.

Nice whiff, Babe Ruth. Or should I say Brad Corley. Better yet Daryl Norris.

Good one. I'd come back with a bunch of facts but I and many have done that already, and you're not worth the time.

[Goat Holder]

Mullen would have went 6-6 in 2004 with Omarr Conner and all those guys. Get the **** outta here.

You really think Mullen loses to Maine, UAB and Vandy? Shit, he probably beats Arkansas and Ole Miss too.

[Goat Holder]

Good one. I'd come back with a bunch of facts but I and many have done that already, and you're not worth the time.

I'll take this as a concession. I obliterated your point. So you're correct to stop posting.

[Goat Holder]

And it's about to get good one way or the other.

This I'll agree with. We have the best team in America at home, the worst team in the SEC on the road, and our rival at home (who has similar talent to us). I can't think of a better measuring stick for a coach, honestly. I'm very excited to see it play out.

[The Croom Diaries]

Mullen would have went 6-6 in 2004 with Omarr Conner and all those guys. Get the **** outta here.

You really think Mullen loses to Maine, UAB and Vandy? Shit, he probably beats Arkansas and Ole Miss too.

Oh, yeah, I totally agree paying a coach $2.7 million to not wet the bed is 100% worth it. I just decided to not fire a guy because didn't lose money for my company. Never mind that he was doing the bare minimum and not making me any money. Makes perfect sense. **

[The Croom Diaries]

I'll take this as a concession. I obliterated your point. So you're correct to stop posting.

In the interest of saving time: http://maroonandwhitenation.com/2013/11/06/fight-minimum/

[HunterDawg]

Exactly. Too many people are ignoring what is happening weekly on the field. They are letting meaningless wins over cream puffs cloud their judgement and blind them of the shitty play and coaching blunders.

You are a smart guy but with all due respect, I am confused. You recognize that the chickenshit OCC schedule has made Mullen look much better than he really is. You must then agree that it is part of our current quandry of firing a guy who has taken us to multiple bowls. Yet, you have said repeatedly that you agree with playing those SWAC/Sunbelt teams? How can you say "a bowl is not a bowl" when you say "a win is a win" and no one cares who you beat?

"A win is a win" is the ultimate expression of mediocrity. We gain nothing from beating Jackson St. Nothing.

I not only believe that teams play down to their opponents. I believe they play down to their schedules, too. They look at it and circle the wins and feel no real pressure to beat any good teams. Heck, they didn't last year and were heros to most fans. Gator Bowl and all that. As long as we give them the easy road to a bowl (4 cupcakes, Ky and Vandy) why do we expect them to elevate in those other games and get the big upset wins that we simply must have? No need.

I say again. It is crucial that we get away from the laughable chickenshit OOC schedule and play teams that we can beat but not be ridiculed for playing. There are a lot of teams between Okla St and Alcorn St. We need to find some. We need our team focused and working and improving every week. I don't think they do that in the weeks before those cupcakes. We are, in effect, losing 4 weeks of valuable practice time, too. Those weeks are a waste for the team, the fans and everyone else.

[CadaverDawg]

You are a smart guy but with all due respect, I am confused. You recognize that the chickenshit OCC schedule has made Mullen look much better than he really is. You must then agree that it is part of our current quandry of firing a guy who has taken us to multiple bowls. Yet, you have said repeatedly that you agree with playing those SWAC/Sunbelt teams? How can you say "a bowl is not a bowl" when you say "a win is a win" and no one cares who you beat?

"A win is a win" is the ultimate expression of mediocrity. We gain nothing from beating Jackson St. Nothing.

I not only believe that teams play down to their opponents. I believe they play down to their schedules, too. They look at it and circle the wins and feel no real pressure to beat any good teams. Heck, they didn't last year and were heros to most fans. Gator Bowl and all that. As long as we give them the easy road to a bowl (4 cupcakes, Ky and Vandy) why do we expect them to elevate in those other games and get the big upset wins that we simply must have? No need.

I say again. It is crucial that we get away from the laughable chickenshit OOC schedule and play teams that we can beat but not be ridiculed for playing. There are a lot of teams between Okla St and Alcorn St. We need to find some. We need our team focused and working and improving every week. I don't think they do that in the weeks before those cupcakes. We are, in effect, losing 4 weeks of valuable practice time, too. Those weeks are a waste for the team, the fans and everyone else.

You're right, I did say every bit of that. And that is exactly my point...we have to learn to quit judging our coaches on bowl games. 70 teams make bowl games, so that is a terrible judge of how good a coach is. What I'm saying is, we need to play weak OOC teams because we play a tough enough schedule in conference to where it is unnecessary to play a tough OOC. Literally, makes no sense. Plus, that makes it easier for us to become bowl eligible every year.

BUT, if we're going to do that, then we as fans and our Administration, have GOT to learn to quit judging the coach on wins and losses and bowl games ONLY. We can have the best of both worlds if we will learn that a bowl game doesn't automatically equal a contract extension, or even a job. A prime example is last year and this year. We won 8 games against really bad teams last year, and looked terrible as a whole last season. This season, we have looked bad and horribly coached. So if people would open their eyes, we could go ahead and make the coaching change because regardless of record, we are underachieving and have horrible coaching since last year. Why the hell do we have to go 5-7 for 2 straight years to consider firing a coach when we can see enough to do it during a 8-5 and potentially 5-7 season? We shouldn't have to wait.

But since our fans and administration are too damn stupid to see the writing on the wall, and would rather have a rebuild on our hands before firing a coach...I'm starting to think maybe we need to play a tougher schedule. That's the only way for our small minded fans to see a turd when it's staring them in the face.

[HunterDawg]

As long as they can bring their D game and win half our games, it will be very hard to ever get their A game when we need it.

We need to at least require the B or C game every week. Our team may be inconsistent because our schedule is so inconsistent. Plays that work wonderfully one week lose 5 yards the next. Very hard for us to identify and correct problems in those games. Every play works.

[Homedawg]

If you aren't capable of acknowledging that Mullen inherited a MUCH better situation than Croom inherited then you can't talk with the grown ups. And remember, this is a Comparison to Croom, not Nick Saban, but freakin Sly Croom.

I'm not sure abou that. Attitudes? Maybe talent? No. Croom inherited multiple nfl guys and we lost to MAINE! Who did Mullen inherit besides dixon that was an nfl guy?

[CadaverDawg]

As long as they can bring their D game and win half our games, it will be very hard to ever get their A game when we need it.

We need to at least require the B or C game every week. Our team may be inconsistent because our schedule is so inconsistent. Plays that work wonderfully one week lose 5 yards the next. Very hard for us to identify and correct problems in those games. Every play works.

Sorry, but that sounds like garbage to me. They play 12 games a damn year....if you can't get your team up 12 times in a calendar year, that speaks more to you as a coach. We're talking 4 games against weaker teams. Four. Out of 12. Come on, mane

[Political Hack]

maybe we should move into the NFC south.

[CadaverDawg]

maybe we should move into the NFC south.

No shit. People amaze me. There is literally zero point in playing tough OOC opponents. Zero.

[maroonmania]

This argument plus croom diaries is all I need.

I've been off the Mullen bandwagon for a couple of weeks now, but wins against Arkansas and om will no longer change my mind.

We are not getting better. Players have lost the fire to play for Mullen for whatever reason and I have no reason to believe a change would set us back.....for now. If we let this go on in another disappointing season with the media beating us up for underachieving, we will lose our opportunity to build on something.

I hear the friction is that HUD and Strick don't work together and HUD is putting stipulations on the relationship if he's hired. Stipulations that Keenum won't accept at this point.

I hope we find a way through this with as little damage as possible, but I do recognize the mistakes made in keeping bellard, felker, sherrill, to long and the advantage we kept in moving to Mullen as quickly as we did one year removed from a bowl win.

I think to put it in a political term, "lame duck" is the best way to describe our coaching staff right now.

Well Strick needs to get with the program and realize his job is to have a successful athletic department, not be best buds with his head coaches. Has anyone seen our crowds in the Hump the last couple of years? If we don't have the right football HC to be successful, and I do think Hud is a guy who could be very successful at MSU and fits our culture, then Strick can be proud of his HC who he enjoys working with and is supposedly running the program the "right way" but our crowds at DWS may start looking the same as what has been at the Hump lately.

[Todd4State]

You are a smart guy but with all due respect, I am confused. You recognize that the chickenshit OCC schedule has made Mullen look much better than he really is. You must then agree that it is part of our current quandry of firing a guy who has taken us to multiple bowls. Yet, you have said repeatedly that you agree with playing those SWAC/Sunbelt teams? How can you say "a bowl is not a bowl" when you say "a win is a win" and no one cares who you beat?

"A win is a win" is the ultimate expression of mediocrity. We gain nothing from beating Jackson St. Nothing.

I not only believe that teams play down to their opponents. I believe they play down to their schedules, too. They look at it and circle the wins and feel no real pressure to beat any good teams. Heck, they didn't last year and were heros to most fans. Gator Bowl and all that. As long as we give them the easy road to a bowl (4 cupcakes, Ky and Vandy) why do we expect them to elevate in those other games and get the big upset wins that we simply must have? No need.

I say again. It is crucial that we get away from the laughable chickenshit OOC schedule and play teams that we can beat but not be ridiculed for playing. There are a lot of teams between Okla St and Alcorn St. We need to find some. We need our team focused and working and improving every week. I don't think they do that in the weeks before those cupcakes. We are, in effect, losing 4 weeks of valuable practice time, too. Those weeks are a waste for the team, the fans and everyone else.

We played Oklahoma State this year. How is that working out for us as far as playing up to our opponents this year?

By your theory, we should be even better than we were last year because we played Oklahoma State.

[Coach34]

You're right, I did say every bit of that. And that is exactly my point...we have to learn to quit judging our coaches on bowl games. 70 teams make bowl games, so that is a terrible judge of how good a coach is.

Yet only 7...SEVEN SEC teams have been to 3 straight bowls even though it's so damn easy to go to a bowl

[Todd4State]

As long as they can bring their D game and win half our games, it will be very hard to ever get their A game when we need it.

We need to at least require the B or C game every week. Our team may be inconsistent because our schedule is so inconsistent. Plays that work wonderfully one week lose 5 yards the next. Very hard for us to identify and correct problems in those games. Every play works.

I guess you missed the Bowling Green game this year.

I'd actually say we're very consistent. We beat teams we should and get blown out by top 20 teams.

A good coach at any level can use those games properly.

[HoopsDawg]

5 didn't make a bowl last year and 4 of them fired their coach.

[CadaverDawg]

5 didn't make a bowl last year and 4 of them fired their coach.

Bingo.

[Coach34]

5 didn't make a bowl last year and 4 of them fired their coach.

Kentucky and Tennessee had missed bowls for multiple seasons- not 1 time

UPig had an interim coach- he was going to be fired regardless

Auburn was a cluster

The thing is- the school that stuck with their coach for his down season after a a good run- Missouri- is now reaping the benefits for doing so.

[CadaverDawg]

Kentucky and Tennessee had missed bowls for multiple seasons- not 1 time

UPig had an interim coach- he was going to be fired regardless

Auburn was a cluster

The thing is- the school that stuck with their coach for his down season after a a good run- Missouri- is now reaping the benefits for doing so.

Haha, good try. Pinkle has proven a TON. Mullen...not so much.

[Coach34]

Haha, good try. Pinkle has proven a TON. Mullen...not so much.

Was no trying to it- I just brought facts

And this is where I disagree with you guys. Winning 8-9 games at Miss State is a big deal. We've only won 10 once in my lifetime.

[HoopsDawg]

If only AU had stuck with Chizick. Dooley was close too. Joker just needed more time.

[HoopsDawg]

Was no trying to it- I just brought facts

And this is where I disagree with you guys. Winning 8-9 games at Miss State is a big deal. We've only won 10 once in my lifetime.

No one disagrees with that.

[CadaverDawg]

Was no trying to it- I just brought facts

And this is where I disagree with you guys. Winning 8-9 games at Miss State is a big deal. We've only won 10 once in my lifetime.

For the love of God, why do you keep comparing everything to our shitty history? The SEC is different now. Vandy is winning 8 games per year these days. 8 wins against 8 really bad teams, and 5 blowout losses against any team with a pulse, is nothing to beat our chests over. At some point you have to look at what is happening on the field.

I hope Mullen figures something out over these next 3 games....but I'm shocked that you can't see these issues.

[cheewgumm]

With our fans saying a bowl game guarantees your job, i can think of a good reason.

Everyone disagrees I get it. And I'm done arguing it. But if the same people next year say its time for a change after we win 6, I hope someone calls bullshit.

[Todd4State]

Kentucky and Tennessee had missed bowls for multiple seasons- not 1 time

UPig had an interim coach- he was going to be fired regardless

Auburn was a cluster

The thing is- the school that stuck with their coach for his down season after a a good run- Missouri- is now reaping the benefits for doing so.

Mizzou also had a killer schedule last year. SELU, Arizona State (8-5), Syracuse (8-5 Big East Co-Champs), and Central Florida (10-4 C-USA East Co-Champs).

LT would have been proud of that. Mizzou got caught in the cross fire of all the Texas/Big 12 BS. They really wanted to go to the Big 10, but it blew up in their face and they bailed to the SEC. They scheduled that way because their conference is weak, and Pinkel was going to get a pass no matter what any of their fans said.

[RiverCityDawg]

I'm not sure abou that. Attitudes? Maybe talent? No. Croom inherited multiple nfl guys and we lost to MAINE! Who did Mullen inherit besides dixon that was an nfl guy?

Mullen inherited Dixon, Chaney, Charles Mitchell, KJ Wright, Quinten Saulsberry, Derek Sherrod, Pernell McPhee, and Kyle Love who all spent time on NFL 53-man rosters. Many would also count Fletcher Cox & Josh Boyd. I can't remember the timing of commitments by Banks, Chris White, Cam Lawrence & Gabe Jackson.

Croom inherited Norwood, Quinton Culberson, Kevin Dockery, Willie Evans, David Stewart & Deljuan Robinson

Croom inherited some talent, but he got some bums too that didn't deserve to be in a BCS conference. I would never argue for Croom over Mullen from a coaching standpoint, but having been at State when Croom took over, I remember well how terrible that group was as a whole.

[Dawgfan77]

We need to drop the shit about our history! Our past does not define our future! Mullen has proven a few things, one we dont have to lose to lesser opponents, two, we cannot compete with SEC elite if we continue to recruit in the 30's and 40's, three MSU can get to bowl games. There are other things he has done well, but IMO he has made some really head scratching mistakes in year five. I hear folks on the radio and read comments on boards that Mullen is a young coach and is going to make mistakes, but its his 5th year and he is still making those mistakes. You know what that tells me, he is to stubborn to see his failures, or he is to stupid to see his failures. We have to let the season play out, but those that are defending Mullen, let me ask you this, if we end up 5-7 and then finish 2014 at 6-6 with as some would say a much more manageable schedule, did we do the right thing by keeping him?
One more thing, for those that think this is a knee jerk reaction to OM, in 2010/11 we had just won 9 games 2 in row vs Rebs and had the best players in the State locked up as commitments and were headed to the gator bowl, but by Feb our class ranked in the 40's. Now fast forward to this past Feb, Freeze kicked our ass in the egg bowl and in recruiting, then watching them this season has shown they are moving in the right direction. Proof was the LSU game, some of you all were so excited we went toe to toe with LSU but lost by 33, two weeks later OM with an injury filled rooster of freshman and walk ons beat LSU. So again who is living the relentless effort creed?

[Todd4State]

We need to drop the shit about our history! Our past does not define our future! Mullen has proven a few things, one we dont have to lose to lesser opponents, two, we cannot compete with SEC elite if we continue to recruit in the 30's and 40's, three MSU can get to bowl games. There are other things he has done well, but IMO he has made some really head scratching mistakes in year five. I hear folks on the radio and read comments on boards that Mullen is a young coach and is going to make mistakes, but its his 5th year and he is still making those mistakes. You know what that tells me, he is to stubborn to see his failures, or he is to stupid to see his failures. We have to let the season play out, but those that are defending Mullen, let me ask you this, if we end up 5-7 and then finish 2014 at 6-6 with as some would say a much more manageable schedule, did we do the right thing by keeping him?
One more thing, for those that think this is a knee jerk reaction to OM, in 2010/11 we had just won 9 games 2 in row vs Rebs and had the best players in the State locked up as commitments and were headed to the gator bowl, but by Feb our class ranked in the 40's. Now fast forward to this past Feb, Freeze kicked our ass in the egg bowl and in recruiting, then watching them this season has shown they are moving in the right direction. Proof was the LSU game, some of you all were so excited we went toe to toe with LSU but lost by 33, two weeks later OM with an injury filled rooster of freshman and walk ons beat LSU. So again who is living the relentless effort creed?

Exactly. This is what our enemies want us to think. "You have never won, so you never will, so don't even try."

[Schultzy]

"Bowl games" is window dressing BS to prop him up -- when NOTHING about that accomplishment can be compared to previous MSU coaches.

- When Bellard took over here, there were 12 total bowl games -- meaning you had to finish in the top 24 to go: Rose, Orange, Sugar, Fiesta, Sun, Cotton, Gator, Citrus(Cap1), Liberty, Peach(ChickFilA), Independence, Holiday

- When Jackie took over here, there were 15 total bowl games -- meaning you had to finish in the top 30 to go: The above plus Hall of Fame(Outback), Copper(Buffalo Wild Wings), and Tangerine(Russell Athletics).

- When Croom took over here, there were 27 total bowl games.

- When Mullen took over here, there were 33 total bowl games. In his second year, 2 more were added: Heart of Dallas and Pinstripe Bowl. Taking the total number to 35.

- In 2014, there is expected to be 4 more bowls added: Bahamas, Boca Raton, Miami Beach, and Camellia bowls.

We're staring at 78 of 126 FBS teams playing bowl games next year.

By previous standards -- Mullen has had ONE bowl team here in 5 years.

Now this is informative and interesting. I've been wondering what the numbers on this we're concerning what it took to gain bowl eligibility versus the different coaching era's.
This provides perspective to anyone no matter what side of the fence you're on.

[Tbonewannabe]

Exactly. This is what our enemies want us to think. "You have never won, so you never will, so don't even try."
Look back in our history and count all the 5-6 seasons, those would now be bowl games. Hell Jackie went 7-4 and stayed home

[Dawgfan77]

Look back in our history and count all the 5-6 seasons, those would now be bowl games. Hell Jackie went 7-4 and stayed home

STOP LOOKING AT OUR PAST!!! We can win should and will win but stop with the old M-State mentality. Our future should define us not our past. It's time to move in a new direction

[Coach34]

Look back in our history and count all the 5-6 seasons, those would now be bowl games.

This is not exactly true. We used to only play 6 conference games and 5 OOC games until 1992 when the SEC went to 8 conference games. We've only gone 5-6 once since 1992 (1996). We had plenty of OOC games to become bowl eligible- we just had bad teams

[engie]

Look back in our history and count all the 5-6 seasons, those would now be bowl games. Hell Jackie went 7-4 and stayed home

Correct.

By today's 6-6 bowl standards and assuming we go .500 in overtime(tie) games, and schedule a 12th game patsy, we would have played in 27 bowl games since 1970.

We would have only "missed" 16 bowl games in 43 years -- 7 of which would have happened under Croom and at the end of Jackie.

We would have AVERAGED making a bowl game 63% of the time... And that's in our own "woeful" history.

[The Croom Diaries]

This is not exactly true. We used to only play 6 conference games and 5 OOC games until 1992 when the SEC went to 8 conference games. We've only gone 5-6 once since 1992 (1996). We had plenty of OOC games to become bowl eligible- we just had bad teams

You are missing the glaring difference which is what Cadaver has been talking about - the SEC has raised our floor tremendously. We have DOUBLED our budget over the last 5 years. The gap between us and lower tier conference schools used to be 10 yards, now it's 100. We have so many more advantages because of TODAY'S SEC that we are able to recruit better just by showing up. Can you deny this? THAT is why we are doing the minimum. No lower-tier conference school should be able to compete with us for four quarters. We should always win those games, and win them handedly. You have to leave the past in the past because things are MUCH different today. Once you recognize this fact you will see it as most everyone else does.