Defending Up Tempo Offenses

[confucius say]

Why do defenses not hit the ground with a cramp or fatigue after every play? The rules explicitly allow for it, and defenses do it every so often (especially in the red zone), so why would a defense not do it after every play? It would end offenses premised on tempo.

[BiscuitEater]

Double Post

[BiscuitEater]

Why do defenses not hit the ground with a cramp or fatigue after every play? The rules explicitly allow for it, and defenses do it every so often (especially in the red zone), so why would a defense not do it after every play? It would end offenses premised on tempo.

After the first 'flop,' EVERYONE knows what's going on.

It's cheating! And, it only slows down the offense for a short time while they drag the flopper's ass off the field!

Rule is designed to prevent real injury. Hopefully, teams that try this only get away with it once!

[confucius say]

After the first 'flop,' EVERYONE knows what's going on.

It's cheating! And, it only slows down the offense for a short time while they drag the flopper's ass off the field!

Rule is designed to prevent real injury. Hopefully, teams that try this only get away with it once!

How is it cheating if it's allowed by the rules?

Most injuries occur when fatigued, so if the rule "is designed to prevent real injury," then stopping tempo aligns with that purpose well.

[BiscuitEater]

How is it cheating if it's allowed by the rules.

The rule is for REAL cramps and fatigue NOT fake 'flopping!' Thankfully, most Refs can tell a 'flop!'

Count on losing a TO after the second flop! Count on 'an unsportsmanlike' or 'delay of game' 15 yard penalty after the TOs are gone!

[R2Dawg]

The rule is for REAL cramps and fatigue NOT fake 'flopping!' Thankfully, most Refs can tell a 'flop!'

Count on losing a TO after the second flop! Count on 'an unsportsmanlike' or 'delay of game' 15 yard penalty after the TOs are gone!

Yep, discernment - there is right and almost right. This is correct take on it.

[confucius say]

The rule is for REAL cramps and fatigue NOT fake 'flopping!' Thankfully, most Refs can tell a 'flop!'

Count on losing a TO after the second flop! Count on 'an unsportsmanlike' or 'delay of game' 15 yard penalty after the TOs are gone!

There is no rule that allows for loss of a timeout if a ref thinks you are faking. In fact, refs are instructed not to make a judgement call on whether they believe a player is faking. It was addressed at the convention last year and decided no rule would be implemented.

I heard a cbs rules expert talking about this issue today. He said the protocol was to stop the game and get the player off the field regardless of whether or not they believe he is faking.

Bigger picture, I'm not taking about faking injuries. I'm talking about fatigue. 2 straight plays of hurry up, hit the ground. My view is unless there is a rule against it, I would do it until there is a rule that allows defenses to substitute mid possession. It is asinine that in an era of player safety, only the offense is allowed to determine when substitutions may occur.

[BiscuitEater]

You seriously think that has a player 'flopping' every other play is NOT going to be flagged is beyond belief! Each stoppage takes 2-3 minutes .. average of 73 plays a game .. add 3 minutes/flop.. and you add 1.5 to 2.0 hours per game (specially when commercials are factored in)

Yea, I DON'T think that is going to float!

[bulldawg28]

You seriously think that has a player 'flopping' every other play is NOT going to be flagged is beyond belief! Each stoppage takes 2-3 minutes .. average of 73 plays a game .. add 3 minutes/flop.. and you add 1.5 to 2.0 hours per game (specially when commercials are factored in)

Yea, I DON'T think that is going to float!

They can't flag a team even if they thought he was faking. This isn't basketball where a rule is established for flopping.

[bulldawg28]

There is no rule that allows for loss of a timeout if a ref thinks you are faking. In fact, refs are instructed not to make a judgement call on whether they believe a player is faking. It was addressed at the convention last year and decided no rule would be implemented.

I heard a cbs rules expert talking about this issue today. He said the protocol was to stop the game and get the player off the field regardless of whether or not they believe he is faking.

Bigger picture, I'm not taking about faking injuries. I'm talking about fatigue. 2 straight plays of hurry up, hit the ground. My view is unless there is a rule against it, I would do it until there is a rule that allows defenses to substitute mid possession. It is asinine that in an era of player safety, only the offense is allowed to determine when substitutions may occur.

If the defense is gassed like your referring it isn't faking. Players just haven't been trained that there is a level of fatigue where you stop. Coaches from day 1 teach mental toughness and pushing through. However, I honestly think it's smart to take a knee or lay on the ground until help arrives. You're probably not going to make it to the sideline due the offense will snap the ball. That player needs to wait on help to come ala training staff.

[confucius say]

If the defense is gassed like your referring it isn't faking. Players just haven't been trained that there is a level of fatigue where you stop. Coaches from day 1 teach mental toughness and pushing through. However, I honestly think it's smart to take a knee or lay on the ground until help arrives. You're probably not going to make it to the sideline due the offense will snap the ball. That player needs to wait on help to come ala training staff.

Exactly. This is the way to combat the most ridiculous rule in sports (only the offense is allowed to decide when either team may substitute players). Lay on the ground.

[Lord McBuckethead]

If the defense is gassed like your referring it isn't faking. Players just haven't been trained that there is a level of fatigue where you stop. Coaches from day 1 teach mental toughness and pushing through. However, I honestly think it's smart to take a knee or lay on the ground until help arrives. You're probably not going to make it to the sideline due the offense will snap the ball. That player needs to wait on help to come ala training staff.

They shouldn't let you snap the ball with less than 17 seconds on the ball, unless it is within 2 minutes of the end of the game or you are in the redzone.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Exactly. This is the way to combat the most ridiculous rule in sports (only the offense is allowed to decide when either team may substitute players). Lay on the ground.

Maybe if the head coach steps on the field within 5 seconds of a tackle, they can and have to substitute immediately. That would delay the snap 10 seconds, but I also believe it should stop the game clock for 10 seconds as well.

[Jack Lambert]

I think up temp offense is dangerous. Defensive players are more subject to injuries.

[DownwardDawg]

There is no way to tell if someone is really cramping or feeling something "wrong" in their chest or whatever. It's crazy teams don't use it more often. There isn't a rule against having a cramp. Soon a coach will exploit it and he'll get credit for killing up tempo offense.

[confucius say]

Maybe if the head coach steps on the field within 5 seconds of a tackle, they can and have to substitute immediately. That would delay the snap 10 seconds, but I also believe it should stop the game clock for 10 seconds as well.

I think a simple rule like, defense has the opportunity to substitute after a first down. That would mean the most possible plays a defense could play without being able to substitute is 4.

[bulldawg28]

I think up temp offense is dangerous. Defensive players are more subject to injuries.

Truth, especially in the South with humidity. It shouldn't be allowed in high school imo. Those kids are no way in shape to deal with it.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Sound like a lot of bitching. You don't want teams to play fast here's an idea.. stop them!! 3 & outs are really fast. I wish we would play fast. It helps offset a talent advantage by the other team.

[OLJWales]

Sound like a lot of bitching. You don't want teams to play fast here's an idea.. stop them!! 3 & outs are really fast. I wish we would play fast. It helps offset a talent advantage by the other team.

repped and thanks for checking in sir

[confucius say]

Sound like a lot of bitching. You don't want teams to play fast here's an idea.. stop them!! 3 & outs are really fast. I wish we would play fast. It helps offset a talent advantage by the other team.

I just want equal rules for both sides of the ball.

So You approve of a setup where only the offense may determine when substitutions are allowed in a sport? In an era of player safety? That is the dumbest rule in sports, and I believe it is the only sport that has such a rule.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I just want equal rules for both sides of the ball.

So You approve of a setup where only the offense may determine when substitutions are allowed in a sport? In an era of player safety? That is the dumbest rule in sports, and I believe it is the only sport that has such a rule.

If I run out on 1st & 10 with personnel & keep that same personnel on the field the entire time how do I have an advantage? You saw the personnel I came out with & countered it. If your desired 11 can't stop mine that sounds like a coaching issue not safety issue.

Also you're acting like uptempo offenses are running 15-20 play drives. They're not. Again if your defense can't stay on the field 7-8 plays sound like a coaching issue not safety issue. Also if you want to substitute get a stop. Teams usually go fast after 1st downs. STOP SOMEBODY!!

[bulldawg28]

Sound like a lot of bitching. You don't want teams to play fast here's an idea.. stop them!! 3 & outs are really fast. I wish we would play fast. It helps offset a talent advantage by the other team.

No defense is stopping a really play fast offense that's talented and fundamentally sound.

[confucius say]

If I run out on 1st & 10 with personnel & keep that same personnel on the field the entire time how do I have an advantage? You saw the personnel I came out with & countered it. If your desired 11 can't stop mine that sounds like a coaching issue not safety issue.

Also you're acting like uptempo offenses are running 15-20 play drives. They're not. Again if your defense can't stay on the field 7-8 plays sound like a coaching issue not safety issue. Also if you want to substitute get a stop. Teams usually go fast after 1st downs. STOP SOMEBODY!!

My desired 11 on one part of the field may not be my desired 11 on every part of the field. Why should only the offense be allowed to dictate when either team may substitute fatigued players?

And Uptempo offenses go on double digit play drives every Saturday. You know that. The argument that, "if you want to be allowed to substitute players then you just need to play better, i.e., get a stop" is ridiculous.

Rules were changed to benefit the offense in this area several years ago. Until that is addressed, or a new rule allowing defenses to substitute after a first down is implemented, my counter to that would be to hit the ground after every first down.

[CaptainObvious]

What I hate even more than this, is a No-huddle offense that uses the entire play clock! What the heck! Just huddle and shuttle a receiver in with the next play/audible. It will save time for gosh sakes.