Am I missing something re: Ole Miss' recruiting?

[smootness]

As it stands now, I don't see how their current class is much better than ours. I know we don't have much hopes of landing anything else of real substance, but do people just assume they'll close like they did last year?

Where is this talk of them recruiting at a really high level again coming from? Sure, they may get Pack, but they also may lose Hampton. They already lost the TE from Missouri, and Freeze and Orgeron's strategy has a history of leading to losing some commitments.

I see a couple of 4-stars they may still land, like the LB from IL, but I don't see any way they end up anywhere close to the top 10 again this year. Am I missing something?

[Jack Lambert]

I am probably wrong but those recruiting sites like Rivals, 247 and Scouts depend on traffic to generate advertisement for them. I think it's because there are many more homers from Ole Miss who lives by winning the recruiting war with us going to that page and clicking on their class so those sites are keeping them up in the rankings. I have notice that their class has been dropping in all of them. That means some of those California schools are moving up because there a lot more traffic coming from California then earlier in the year.

Like earlier in the year there were schools with three commitments high. That just tells me that they were getting a lot of attention from readers.

[Coach34]

They are recruiting well- that's one thing that can't be knocked on them. They are organized from top to bottom and are getting it done. Hats off to them

Our class is underrated and gets wayyyyy more flak than it should

[engie]

They are going to land 5-6 more 4* and 5* players. They are currently 16th with 21 commits -- and will likely take 28-30 this year. Christian Morris(4*) will be transferring in and will likely count in the class. Anthony Alford should count for them in this class as well, since he'll be playing for them next year likely as a starting safety -- and he didn't count in last class for them. They are likely going to get Pack, Reed, Morgan, and Gennesy. They are 50/50 on Elijah Shaw and Tee Shepard. They are a dark horse candidate for Jamal Adams.

Anytime a player OVs in Oxford, they've got a chance. They have had 10 OVs already -- only 1 of those players are currently committed to OM. That's visits by national #27, 56, 84, 103, 119, 135, 163 and JUCO #10 and #45.

They will finish inside the top 15 comfortably...

[Barking 13]

Like a kid told me, the difference was that they had their shit together when he visited (whatever that means), and MSU acted like they DGAF when he went there. This kid was a rising jr at the time, so there weren't even any shenanigans going on with him...

ETA: and Hevesy was a complete ass to him...

[HoopsDawg]

They are recruiting well- that's one thing that can't be knocked on them. They are organized from top to bottom and are getting it done. Hats off to them

Our class is underrated and gets wayyyyy more flak than it should

I could rip our class to pieces, save Aeris, Graham, and Green, but I don't want to bash high school kids publicly. We aren't winning any recruiting battles.

[smootness]

They are going to land 5-6 more 4* and 5* players. They are currently 16th with 21 commits -- and will likely take 28-30 this year. Christian Morris(4*) will be transferring in and will likely count in the class. Anthony Alford should count for them in this class as well, since he'll be playing for them next year likely as a starting safety -- and he didn't count in last class for them. They are likely going to get Pack, Reed, Morgan, and Gennesy. They are 50/50 on Elijah Shaw and Tee Shepard. They are a dark horse candidate for Jamal Adams.

Anytime a player OVs in Oxford, they've got a chance. They have had 10 OVs already -- only 1 of those players are currently committed to OM. That's visits by national #27, 56, 84, 103, 119, 135, 163 and JUCO #10 and #45.

They will finish inside the top 15 comfortably...

Fair enough, but I'll wait until it actually happens before I crown them.

And Morris and Alford won't and shouldn't count to recruiting rankings. They are transfers.

[msstate7]

I could rip our class to pieces, save Aeris, Graham, and Green, but I don't want to bash high school kids publicly. We aren't winning any recruiting battles.

You rip something msu? No way...

[smootness]

I could rip our class to pieces, save Aeris, Graham, and Green, but I don't want to bash high school kids publicly. We aren't winning any recruiting battles.

Staley - underrated
Fitzgerald - definitely underrated
Durr/Rayford/Bryant - all underrated

I don't know enough about guys like Hoyett, Liggins, Harris, Dontavian Lee, and some others to say much. Obviously you're right that we're not beating a ton of teams out for guys like that. We'll just have to see.

But we do have more talent at the top end of the class than we're getting credit for. Cory Thomas was a big miss.

[msstate7]

I could rip our class to pieces, save Aeris, Graham, and Green, but I don't want to bash high school kids publicly. We aren't winning any recruiting battles.

Jesse Jackson not worth having either?

[bulldawg28]

Ole Miss recruiting class is barely above ours ranked #21 on Scout. They also have 21 commits and can only sign 4 more and those players WILL not be all 4 and 5 stars.

[msstate7]

I'm not worried about too much. We seem to routinely find guys like Jamaal clayborn (beat out grambling state) who is a good one. Talent isn't our problem on this team except at playmaker positions which we've addressed last year and this year.

[BossDawg]

:(

Just axin' a qwerstion.

[HoopsDawg]

Jesse Jackson not worth having either?


I wish he had more speed.

[SoJackDog]

We will be fine.

[HoopsDawg]

I'm not worried about too much. We seem to routinely find guys like Jamaal clayborn (beat out grambling state) who is a good one. Talent isn't our problem on this team except at playmaker positions which we've addressed last year and this year.

If it's not talent, what is it? Don't give me youth.

[HoopsDawg]

We will be fine.

glad that's settled. nothing to see here folks, we will be fine.

[Coach34]

If it's not talent, what is it? Don't give me youth.

We dont have top flight talent at WR- so we dont get the game-breaking plays some other teams do at the top of the conference.

Youth at WR and at DB + injuries there have hurt this team a great deal.

[msstate7]

If it's not talent, what is it? Don't give me youth.

I think a lot of it is not getting players in a position to make plays. LP should get more catches and less rushes. Robinson and shump should get more carries. We've got a juco all American fs getting burned at corner while we have a fs getting burned every week for the last 2 years. Bad personnel decisions which falls on the coach. We've got coaching issues IMO

[Barking 13]

I think a lot of it is not getting players in a position to make plays. LP should get more catches and less rushes. Robinson and shump should get more carries. We've got a juco all American fs getting burned at corner while we have a fs getting burned every week for the last 2 years. Bad personnel decisions which falls on the coach. We've got coaching issues IMO

B I N G O

[maroonmania]

No doubt they are getting more top end talent than we are since Freeze arrived. That's not even really debatable. Pretty easy to see that by looking at the other offers their top commits have. We are doing as well or better than we have in the past relatively speaking but, for the most part, if you don't consistently have a Top 20 recruiting class its difficult to compete for the SEC West.

[HoopsDawg]

I think a lot of it is not getting players in a position to make plays. LP should get more catches and less rushes. Robinson and shump should get more carries. We've got a juco all American fs getting burned at corner while we have a fs getting burned every week for the last 2 years. Bad personnel decisions which falls on the coach. We've got coaching issues IMO

All things I have said in the past few weeks.

[msstate7]

All things I have said in the past few weeks.

Well we agree on some things. As for recruiting I'm not worried about our coaches offering someone they've seen and like now. I get worried when we add someone late after missing on another player. We do a pretty good job of evaluation.

[HancockCountyDog]

In case you are wondering why we aren't getting CJ Hampton, he is Tyler Russell's cousin and he is understandably pissed off about how Tyler's season has gone down.

Pretty disappointing how a school like Meridian didn't end up being a MSU stronghold after signing Russell 5 years ago;

[Coach34]

In case you are wondering why we aren't getting CJ Hampton, he is Tyler Russell's cousin and he is understandably pissed off about how Tyler's season has gone down.
;

oh well...if CJ cant understand that we play the players that give us the best chance to win- then we don't need someone like that

[maroonmania]

In case you are wondering why we aren't getting CJ Hampton, he is Tyler Russell's cousin and he is understandably pissed off about how Tyler's season has gone down.

Pretty disappointing how a school like Meridian didn't end up being a MSU stronghold after signing Russell 5 years ago;

I call BS on that at least as to why we aren't getting him. He committed to OM long before he knew anything about TR's senior season.

[ShotgunDawg]

I call BS on that at least as to why we aren't getting him. He committed to OM long before he knew anything about TR's senior season.

I totally agree. Total BS. Hampton committed to OM in the summer. Has nothing to do with Tyler.

Why do we have people on here that blatantly make stuff up?

[Coach34]

Why do we have people on here that blatantly make stuff up?

A
G
E
N
D
A

[Bothrops]

Staley - underrated
Fitzgerald - definitely underrated
Durr/Rayford/Bryant - all underrated

I don't know enough about guys like Hoyett, Liggins, Harris, Dontavian Lee, and some others to say much. Obviously you're right that we're not beating a ton of teams out for guys like that. We'll just have to see.

But we do have more talent at the top end of the class than we're getting credit for. Cory Thomas was a big miss.

Dontavian Lee and Liggins are very underrated!!!

[Raytoraid83]

@engie I thought Gennesy wanted to go to a big name school and he was most likely going to end up at Ohio State or A&M.

[HancockCountyDog]

I totally agree. Total BS. Hampton committed to OM in the summer. Has nothing to do with Tyler.

Why do we have people on here that blatantly make stuff up?

I can pull you the twitter comments from him where he says that MSU did his cousin wrong.

[Coach34]

I can pull you the twitter comments from him where he says that MSU did his cousin wrong.

Nobody doubts that part- but he committed in the Summer. So he didnt go to OM BECAUSE he felt like his cousin was done wrong.

[maroonmania]

I can pull you the twitter comments from him where he says that MSU did his cousin wrong.

Well my word, he's committed to OM, why would he have anything positive to say about us? He is just using the TR situation as a chance to take a dig, had nothing to do with him not coming with us.

[grayhairdontcare]

Dontavian Lee and Liggins are very underrated!!!

I shit myself so Mommy wiped me


I can pull you the twitter comments from him where he says that MSU did his cousin wrong.

I'm a stupid idiot that registers as a fan of one school, but I'm really a fan of another school. I do things like this between jerking off to gay porn videos because my life sux

[engie]

Fair enough, but I'll wait until it actually happens before I crown them.

And Morris and Alford won't and shouldn't count to recruiting rankings. They are transfers.

Are JUCO players not also transfers?

Any NEW scholarship player to a team should count in their recruiting rankings...

[engie]

Ole Miss recruiting class is barely above ours ranked #21 on Scout. They also have 21 commits and can only sign 4 more and those players WILL not be all 4 and 5 stars.

LOL

[engie]

@engie I thought Gennesy wanted to go to a big name school and he was most likely going to end up at Ohio State or A&M.

He's trending heavily to OM after officially visiting them Oct 11. Kid has never lived outside of MS -- I doubted all along that he would leave to go across the country when the chips were on the table. It's bothersome that we aren't on his radar -- when we even offer an open starting tackle job in Starkville

78% OM Crystal Ball. They've gotten every vote since his OV there -- and a ton of people have flipped their picks from aTm to OM, including Paul Jones.

http://247sports.com/Player/Avery-Gennesy-15527

[dawgs]

I am probably wrong but those recruiting sites like Rivals, 247 and Scouts depend on traffic to generate advertisement for them. I think it's because there are many more homers from Ole Miss who lives by winning the recruiting war with us going to that page and clicking on their class so those sites are keeping them up in the rankings. I have notice that their class has been dropping in all of them. That means some of those California schools are moving up because there a lot more traffic coming from California then earlier in the year.

Like earlier in the year there were schools with three commitments high. That just tells me that they were getting a lot of attention from readers.

yet teams consistently recruiting in the top 10-15 finish in the top 25 more often than not, and often in the top 10, whereas teams consistently outside the top 10-15 in recruiting are a lot more up and down. that's not to say every team that recruits well according to the rankings is always going to succeed while teams that don't recruit as well are always going to fail, but the odds are usually in your favor if you are recruiting well. i get so sick and tired of msu fans trying to come up with excuses to ignore recruiting sites and what not. sure there's probably a little favoritism going on (we usually do best in the scout rankings and that's probably due to the genespage traffic), but that kinda favoritism doesn't cause nearly the difference rankings yall wanna make it out to be.

and yes i'm well aware that plenty of lightly recruited 2* and 3* blow up and 4* and 5* guys that flopped, but if you look at the percentages, the success rates of 4* and 5* recruits are much higher than the success rates of 2* and 3* recruits. they make all conference and all american teams at a much higher rate and they make the nfl at a much higher rate. so if you are filling your class with 2* and 3*, you better be exceptional with it comes to talent evaluation because the odds aren't in your favor to have a more than a handful of your recruits becomes above avg SEC starters.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

All things I have said in the past few weeks.
But you've been saying this whole thread that recruiting is the issue? I'm confused.

[Bert Stare]

I shit myself so Mommy wiped me



I'm a stupid idiot that registers as a fan of one school, but I'm really a fan of another school. I do things like this between jerking off to gay porn videos because my life sux

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/slow-clap-gif.gif

[EnterpriseDawg]

So every recruit goes to Ole Piss and automatically fall in love enough to commit. This is the problem I have. Oxfart is not that much better than Starkvegas. Mullen needs to pull his head out of his ass and figure this crap out. Unless he's happy playing in meaningless bowl games, he'll never get further than that with the talent he is pulling now. Last place in the conference in recruiting is embarrassing.

[bulldawg28]

So every recruit goes to Ole Piss and automatically fall in love enough to commit. This is the problem I have. Oxfart is not that much better than Starkvegas. Mullen needs to pull his head out of his ass and figure this crap out. Unless he's happy playing in meaningless bowl games, he'll never get further than that with the talent he is pulling now. Last place in the conference in recruiting is embarrassing.

Recruits aren't falling in love as you'd think. If so the rebels would consistently have top 10 classes. If they crack the top 10 this year I'd give them credit.

[bulldawg28]

LOL

Lol...

[Homedawg]

I can pull you the twitter comments from him where he says that MSU did his cousin wrong.

Might have said it- after he was a rebel.

[engie]

Lol...

I'm glad we can both laugh at the ignorance of your post. Saying "they can only sign 4 more" made it completely obvious just how clueless of their situation that you are.

[Schultzy]

I'm glad we can both laugh at the ignorance of your post. Saying "they can only sign 4 more" made it completely obvious just how clueless of their situation that you are.

Haven't you heard 28? We missed out on Steven Bench (I almost committed Suicide watching his lowlight reel) the Alexander twins package deal and a bunch of recruits in some new category called "near national recruits".

Don't worry, the resident screeching, screaming know it all will keep you in line.

[engie]

Haven't you heard 28? We missed out on Steven Bench (I almost committed Suicide watching his lowlight reel) the Alexander twins package deal and a bunch of recruits in some new category called "near national recruits".

Don't worry, the resident screeching, screaming know it all will keep you in line.

Correct. Don't post on a topic if you are ignorant about it -- or otherwise have you feelings hurt when called out like you obvious do. Pretty simple. But we know that you are a glutton for punishment.

What do I account for? 40% of your total posts? #notobsessed

[engie]

"Schultzy" recent posting history:
Only 7 of 9. Do you have my profile set as your homepage?

ENGIE POST
11-14-2013, 05:33 PM
Thread: Am I missing something re: Ole Miss' recruiting?
by Schultzy Replies
46
Views
1,610
Haven't you heard 28? We missed out on Steven...
Haven't you heard 28? We missed out on Steven Bench (I almost committed Suicide watching his lowlight reel) the Alexander twins package deal and a bunch of recruits in some new category called "near...
11-13-2013, 10:06 PM

Thread: Football situation is a metaphor for MSU/Starkville/etc.......
by Schultzy Replies
16
Views
658
I believe the next time we make a run for a few...
I believe the next time we make a run for a few years in football we will be able to hold on to the momentum. In years past When it looked like we were making a move (Tyler and Sherrill) others with...
11-13-2013, 09:41 PM

ENGIE POST
Thread: Baseball signees, Todd, MSstatebaseball, engie, etc post a list here.
by Schultzy Replies
33
Views
1,574
The context was obvious. Do some of these guys...
The context was obvious.
Do some of these guys have power? Looking forward to putting the trailer in already. Maybe this February will be as awesome as last years was weather wise but not counting...
11-13-2013, 08:44 PM

Thread: I love Mike Leach
by Schultzy Replies
7
Views
697
"Look at him just slam it up in there!"
"Look at him just slam it up in there!"
11-13-2013, 08:40 PM

ENGIE POST
Thread: Baseball signees, Todd, MSstatebaseball, engie, etc post a list here.
by Schultzy Replies
33
Views
1,574
It's exactly what you said and easily...
It's exactly what you said and easily comprehended.
11-13-2013, 08:19 PM

ENGIE POST
Thread: Baseball signees, Todd, MSstatebaseball, engie, etc post a list here.
by Schultzy Replies
33
Views
1,574
According to know it all he doesn't really count....
According to know it all he doesn't really count. We simply held on to him.
11-13-2013, 07:46 AM

Thread: Why has the media changed the last 5 years?
by Schultzy Replies
52
Views
1,415
Looking at the dandy dozen, we have and are...
Looking at the dandy dozen, we have and are pretty much splitting the state 50/50.
11-12-2013, 06:01 PM

ENGIE POST
Thread: Bear fans are calling into Head to Head
by Schultzy Replies
112
Views
10,574
He didn't call you out he just pointed out the...
He didn't call you out he just pointed out the ole miss qb's lack of arm strength and the high amount of yards after catch he benefits from on the stat sheet.
My feelings aren't hurt it's just that...
11-12-2013, 05:51 PM

ENGIE POST
Thread: Why has the media changed the last 5 years?
by Schultzy Replies
52
Views
1,415
Except for Chris Jones and Shumpert to start.
Except for Chris Jones and Shumpert to start.
11-12-2013, 05:32 PM

ENGIE POST
Thread: Bear fans are calling into Head to Head
by Schultzy Replies
112
Views
10,574
You have become absolutely unbearable. You don't...
You have become absolutely unbearable. You don't have to post every single thing that pops into your head. Get a filter and put it somewhere between your brain and your mouth (or in this case your...



http://htmlimg2.scribdassets.com/50gt2s87k05xnf4/images/1-01ece685d9.jpg

[Schultzy]

#notimpressed

[Schultzy]

Those were a nice compilation of posts. Thank you! We shall call them "Best Of" replies. However, it is appropriate to respond to someone's constant hyperbolic responses to anyone with a differing opinion than that of the great and powerful Engie.

[Bucky Dog]

yet teams consistently recruiting in the top 10-15 finish in the top 25 more often than not, and often in the top 10, whereas teams consistently outside the top 10-15 in recruiting are a lot more up and down. that's not to say every team that recruits well according to the rankings is always going to succeed while teams that don't recruit as well are always going to fail, but the odds are usually in your favor if you are recruiting well. i get so sick and tired of msu fans trying to come up with excuses to ignore recruiting sites and what not. sure there's probably a little favoritism going on (we usually do best in the scout rankings and that's probably due to the genespage traffic), but that kinda favoritism doesn't cause nearly the difference rankings yall wanna make it out to be.

and yes i'm well aware that plenty of lightly recruited 2* and 3* blow up and 4* and 5* guys that flopped, but if you look at the percentages, the success rates of 4* and 5* recruits are much higher than the success rates of 2* and 3* recruits. they make all conference and all american teams at a much higher rate and they make the nfl at a much higher rate. so if you are filling your class with 2* and 3*, you better be exceptional with it comes to talent evaluation because the odds aren't in your favor to have a more than a handful of your recruits becomes above avg SEC starters.

Boise State

[Coach34]

Why do people argue over all this?

The same teams primarily end up in the top 20 in recruiting
The same team primarily end up in the top 20 year after year

[justwin]

As it stands now, I don't see how their current class is much better than ours. I know we don't have much hopes of landing anything else of real substance, but do people just assume they'll close like they did last year?

Where is this talk of them recruiting at a really high level again coming from? Sure, they may get Pack, but they also may lose Hampton. They already lost the TE from Missouri, and Freeze and Orgeron's strategy has a history of leading to losing some commitments.

I see a couple of 4-stars they may still land, like the LB from IL, but I don't see any way they end up anywhere close to the top 10 again this year. Am I missing something?

QB is the only position that matters ~ above avg college QB is good for 2-3 wins by himself. Well, unless you don't complement him by playing the best supporting cast around him...in MSU's case, the BIG RBs. Anyway, the two qbs we have coming in seem pretty good and will go along nicely with the two we'll have returning

[justwin]

oh well...if CJ cant understand that we play the players that give us the best chance to win- then we don't need someone like that

Exactly, if CJ could only see that the best players are J-Rob, Shump, and Griff and NOT Perkins. But yeah, I'd be pissed if I was him and saw how good ole MSU has wasted his cousin the last 2 years and cost him a shot at playing in the NFL. Said differently, Tyler could easily put up equivalent yards and TDs as Dak if they gave Tyler any kind of help at RB besides Perk. Yes, I do think Dak's a badass, but to keep saying that Dak gives us the best chance to win vs Tyler is not correct. Yes, it's Mullen's fault for not pairing Tyler with a better RB who is already on the roster.

All Mullen had to do was use Griffin and JRob 80% of the time last year and we win 10 games....10 games. Probably would've followed that up with another 9 or so this year.

[Radddawg]

All Mullen had to do was use Griffin and JRob 80% of the time last year and we win 10 games....10 games. Probably would've followed that up with another 9 or so this year.



Wow. And posters accuse me of being too wooly.

[justwin]

Wow. And posters accuse me of being too wooly.

wooly or not, but we beat OM & NW easily with any semblance of a power running back to get to 10 last year. We beat AUB, OSU, and maybe LSU to have 6 by now.

[RougeDawg]

Don't forget money talks. And those bear asshate have more $ than sense. So expect a handful
Of
Flips and a few "Moses parting the Red Sea" type Signings
Again this year. I mean, what top recruit wouldn't want to play there? They consistently compete for SEC and BCS championships. So it's not uncommon for them to have the largest jump in recruiting class rankings since Christ rose from the dead.

[TaxSetUs]

Freeze closed strong last year. Did you miss that? Mullen is going to have to do better or we will be losing to the Bears every year starting next year. Do like I did and shave those maroon glasses a little bit. Mullen needs to close strong and we need to start getting some real out of state blue chips. Hopefully hampton flips to Bama but I wouldn't count on it. I was hoping Conner would flip last year. No doubt there will be some major flipping but when the dust settles bank on Bucky closing well. Mullen needs to get off his ass or hire a good recruiter if he can't get the job done. Even KY is recruiting well so why can't we do the same?

[smootness]

Freeze closed strong last year. Did you miss that?

Uh, no. In fact, I asked in the OP whether people just assumed he would close like he did last year. You have answered with a 'Yes'. Thank you.

[bulldawg28]

Correct. Don't post on a topic if you are ignorant about it -- or otherwise have you feelings hurt when called out like you obvious do. Pretty simple. But we know that you are a glutton for punishment.

What do I account for? 40% of your total posts? #notobsessed



This coming from a man who beats his chest from terrible sources. Half the future crap you spew has never happened. Your a joke and so are your sources. You should be a data analyst. Leave the sources to people who have real insight other than this third party BS you keep falling hard with. Keep posting stats that your job. Now. ... I'm ready for your data, proceed.

[dawgs]

Boise State

and? i said there were exceptions, that doesn't make it the rule.

i'd also look at utah in the pac 12 and tcu in the big 12 the last couple years if you wanted to see what boise would likely do with their current talent level in a major conference. sure the overall talent level would rise over time with the influx of $$ and conf prestige, but it'll take a few years. and in the meantime playing major conf opponents 9 weeks out of the season, they'd probably be a 4 to 7 W team for a few years.

[dawgs]

wooly or not, but we beat OM & NW easily with any semblance of a power running back to get to 10 last year. We beat AUB, OSU, and maybe LSU to have 6 by now.

lol wut?

i mean jrob and shump might be nice RBs, but earl campbell or adrian peterson they are not.

[Schultzy]

This coming from a man who beats his chest from terrible sources. Half the future crap you spew has never happened. Your a joke and so are your sources. You should be a data analyst. Leave the sources to people who have real insight other than this third party BS you keep falling hard with. Keep posting stats that your job. Now. ... I'm ready for your data, proceed.

Uh oh 28, now he's gonna have to give you some forms to fill out. Luckily mine came back from the BH department as non applicable. I think you'll get off the hook as well.

[bulldawg28]

Uh oh 28, now he's gonna have to give you some forms to fill out. Luckily mine came back from the BH department as non applicable. I think you'll get off the hook as well.

If not I'll turn it over to Bracky.

[engie]

This coming from a man who beats his chest from terrible sources. Half the future crap you spew has never happened. Your a joke and so are your sources. You should be a data analyst. Leave the sources to people who have real insight other than this third party BS you keep falling hard with. Keep posting stats that your job. Now. ... I'm ready for your data, proceed.

You told me!!11!1

Keep posting bullshit you made up in order to try to tell everyone everything is fine -- I'll keep posting the truth. Feel free to disappear when this one gets bumped though.

[engie]

Uh oh 28, now he's gonna have to give you some forms to fill out. Luckily mine came back from the BH department as non applicable. I think you'll get off the hook as well.

Thanks for stalking**

[coachdaddy]

i like graham, i really do. if graham is a 4 star then bryant is a 10. mfer can play. damn great get.

[EAVdog]

Quick primer on Ole Miss crootin'

First Year Coach: Recruiting is lights out.

Second Year Coach: Recruiting is ok but the National Recruits aren't really there.

Third year Coach: Recruiting class is fawned over because class was mostly MS kids and perception/reality is those kids were stolen from MSU.

Fourth Year: (assuming coach gets a Fourth Year) The class is lackluster and Ole Miss fans just go Deer Hunting during the season since it's typically the Coaches last year.

We can all speculate on why this ALWAYS happens (and it happens, go do the research) but the answer can be summed up pretty well. Do you think UGA/Bama/LSU/FSU et al are going to let Ole Miss flip kids out from under their noses two years in a row. Ole Miss boosters just think they have deep pockets. They'll end up with a decent class this year and y next year they'll fall back in to their average spot in the low 20's. They'll never end up with enough talent to ever surpass Auburn/Texas AM/LSU/Bama. Which is why their program is such a roller coaster.

We need to focus on our recruiting/development. Obviously our PTB have chosen to build through incremental-ism and development. We need another top 25 class this year to allow us to keep developing players.

[DawgsBite34]

Does anybody think we can get Marlon Humphrey??

[engie]

Does anybody think we can get Marlon Humphrey??

Seen this script a million times under Mullen -- I'll believe it can be done when we finally do it.

[msstate7]

Does anybody think we can get Marlon Humphrey??

If we win 4 more games this year, saban leaves, and we pay MH extremely well, we have a chance

[smootness]

They are going to land 5-6 more 4* and 5* players. They are currently 16th with 21 commits -- and will likely take 28-30 this year. Christian Morris(4*) will be transferring in and will likely count in the class. Anthony Alford should count for them in this class as well, since he'll be playing for them next year likely as a starting safety -- and he didn't count in last class for them. They are likely going to get Pack, Reed, Morgan, and Gennesy. They are 50/50 on Elijah Shaw and Tee Shepard. They are a dark horse candidate for Jamal Adams.

Anytime a player OVs in Oxford, they've got a chance. They have had 10 OVs already -- only 1 of those players are currently committed to OM. That's visits by national #27, 56, 84, 103, 119, 135, 163 and JUCO #10 and #45.

They will finish inside the top 15 comfortably...

Just wanted to bump this to continue the discussion.

So they missed on Gennessy, it looks like we're in the driver's seat for Shepard, and the last thing I've seen from Shaw listed Ole Miss 5th on his list. They did get Pack, and that was a good get for them. Reed and Morgan, we'll see. Morgan already had his OV (getting them on campus seems to be a big thing in Ole Miss' favor only when it comes late in the process), and Ole Miss seems like they're in the mix but not necessarily leading. And Reed seems just as likely to come to State at this point as Ole Miss; he isn't really saying anything and has already decommitted from Ole Miss once.

Ole Miss just doesn't have the momentum they had last year, and they don't have anyone close to a guy like Nkemdiche to base the class around. They'll end up with a good class, as I said in the OP, but I don't see how it is going to come close to last year's.

I've seen State fans constantly whining about Ole Miss' recruiting, but I just don't see how this year's class is going to be so much better than ours when it's said and done, and finishing in the top 15 'comfortably' seems like it's far from a guarantee at this point.

[thunderclap]

Damn you, smootness. I took the summer off from message boards and sat here and read all this thinking it popped up last night. Feel better knowing it didn't.

[engie]

Just wanted to bump this to continue the discussion.

So they missed on Gennessy, it looks like we're in the driver's seat for Shepard, and the last thing I've seen from Shaw listed Ole Miss 5th on his list. They did get Pack, and that was a good get for them. Reed and Morgan, we'll see. Morgan already had his OV (getting them on campus seems to be a big thing in Ole Miss' favor only when it comes late in the process), and Ole Miss seems like they're in the mix but not necessarily leading. And Reed seems just as likely to come to State at this point as Ole Miss; he isn't really saying anything and has already decommitted from Ole Miss once.

Ole Miss just doesn't have the momentum they had last year, and they don't have anyone close to a guy like Nkemdiche to base the class around. They'll end up with a good class, as I said in the OP, but I don't see how it is going to come close to last year's.

I've seen State fans constantly whining about Ole Miss' recruiting, but I just don't see how this year's class is going to be so much better than ours when it's said and done, and finishing in the top 15 'comfortably' seems like it's far from a guarantee at this point.


You think beating them in the Egg Bowl is going to slow down their recruiting machine or speed it up?

You think they are going to fold with Shepard -- or that JUCOs are even remotely predictable? Fact is -- at this very point last year, no one thought they had a real shot at Treadwell, Tunsil, or Golson -- Conner was Bama-bound -- Jerran Reed and Darious Cummings were likely to be Rebs -- as was Elijah Daniel. Point being -- there is ALWAYS a ton of crazy late happenings in their recruiting classes. They aren't stopping recruiting Gennesy either and you can never consider them out of a battle until ink is dry -- and they are reporting that Freeze is now resigned to the fact that he has got to get 2 JUCO OL(how he hasn't been all along is crazy to me -- guess he thought he was going to get a couple more ready-made elite highschool OL to come in and start immediately)...

As of today, they are predicted to get:
10% chance at 5* Jamal Adams
56% chance at high 4* Nyles Morgan
47% on mid 4* Elisha Shaw
12% on 4* Garrald McDowell
90% on Avery Gennesy(this is similar to Pack in a bunch of ways)
60% on Tee Shepard

Interesting that in spite of the rash of interest from Shepard, not a single prediction for us to get him yet on 24/7...

[cheewgumm]

Isn't it a fact that the star ratings work out more than they don't?

I understand finding some diamonds in teh rough, and being good at evaluating people that others don't see value in. Our staff should get credit for that. However, we should not write off the whole star rating system. It turns out true more often tahn not. And programs that are winning are also winning the recruiting wars, based on teh star systems.

We should keep pushing for the star recruits, and not jsut poo poo the whole system, becuase that will catch up wiht us. Mullen has to find a way to recruit better, or he'll be gone. It's just a fact.

[Coach34]

If they get Gennesy with just a couple weeks left after he committed to A&M on Thanksgiving- it will be the most obvious payoff evahhhh

[smootness]

The 90% on Gennessy came before he committed to A&M. Which kind of makes me skeptical of their 'prediction' system anyway.

Anyway, it's tough for me to see how that is similar to Pack since he just committed, at the end of November, and is projected to be a mid-year grad.

247's predictions aren't updated on an ongoing basis. When one of their analysts makes a prediction, it gets counted, no matter when it happened. So yes, Shepard is still at 60% because he just named State his leader and no one has made a new prediction since then. If they all change their minds tomorrow, it would suddenly become 100% State. So if someone made a prediction for him in June and hasn't made one since, it is still counted as a prediction for him.

Same with Gennesy - 90% of their analysts aren't predicting him to Ole Miss after he committed to A&M. That was before, which means they didn't see the commit coming. I promise you if you asked them all today, you would get a 100% for A&M.

So at this point, I guess we can call Morgan and Shaw 50/50 toss-ups - so chances are that they land one and don't get either Adams or McDowell, or Gennesy, or Shepard. Hardly cleaning up.

[thf24]

Interesting that in spite of the rash of interest from Shepard, not a single prediction for us to get him yet on 24/7...

The latest votes on Shepard were made two weeks ago (earliest in August and several in October), and he only announced we're his leader after Saturday, so that poll is a little outdated. I don't have the time to go look right now but I wouldn't be surprised if the same were true in the majority of the other cases you mention.

edit: beat me to it smoot.

[Ronny]

..4 out of the last 5 years & a bunch of you obssess over their recruiting.

**** Ole Miss recruiting.

They pull in a lot of 4-5 star crackpots who other schools have rejected because of mental & physical defects.

Then they flaunt it in front of MSU fan & MSU fan goes crying to mommy.

Screw who they are recruiting. Everybody they recruit eventually digresses & becomes a cancer on their program.

Of course, I realize this post will fall on deaf ears because if there is one thing MSU fans cherishes more than a MSU win is an update on Ole Miss recruiting.

[Todd4State]

Isn't it a fact that the star ratings work out more than they don't?

I understand finding some diamonds in teh rough, and being good at evaluating people that others don't see value in. Our staff should get credit for that. However, we should not write off the whole star rating system. It turns out true more often tahn not. And programs that are winning are also winning the recruiting wars, based on teh star systems.

We should keep pushing for the star recruits, and not jsut poo poo the whole system, becuase that will catch up wiht us. Mullen has to find a way to recruit better, or he'll be gone. It's just a fact.

I bet they get a lot of the five star guys right. I think the further down they go, the less accurate they become if I had to guess.

Some of it is a numbers issue. There are so many high school football players out there and they are trying to assign ratings to all of them.

Some of it is an evaluation issue. They don't take work ethic or academics into account with their ratings at all. The schools like Alabama and LSU that get their five star guys do- I guarantee you that. And that's part of the reason why their guys pan out more than they do at say, Ole Miss.

What I do - and I encourage other fans to do this as well- is to forget the stars and watch their video or go watch them play in person on Friday nights. The casual fan can evaluate these players about as well as the ex-furniture salesmen that these web sites employ.

[ShotgunDawg]

I bet they get a lot of the five star guys right. I think the further down they go, the less accurate they become if I had to guess.

Some of it is a numbers issue. There are so many high school football players out there and they are trying to assign ratings to all of them.

Some of it is an evaluation issue. They don't take work ethic or academics into account with their ratings at all. The schools like Alabama and LSU that get their five star guys do- I guarantee you that. And that's part of the reason why their guys pan out more than they do at say, Ole Miss.

What I do - and I encourage other fans to do this as well- is to forget the stars and watch their video or go watch them play in person on Friday nights. The casual fan can evaluate these players about as well as the ex-furniture salesmen that these web sites employ.

THIS

the websites get 5 star and high 4 star guys right, for the most part. However, low 4 stars, all 3 stars, and under evaluated 2 stars are a complete crap shoot.

Has a lot to do with where the kid is from. If a kid is from the Atlanta area, he is likely going to be rated higher because all the recruiting guys live there, and they will have more offers because college coaches can more efficiently recruit there since there are 100 college prospects within an hour radius.

However, a kid from Rosa Fort Mississippi isn't going to have many offers because colleges coaches can't afford to waste a day going to see a kid they have never heard of.

[engie]

The latest votes on Shepard were made two weeks ago (earliest in August and several in October), and he only announced we're his leader after Saturday, so that poll is a little outdated. I don't have the time to go look right now but I wouldn't be surprised if the same were true in the majority of the other cases you mention.

edit: beat me to it smoot.

Regardless -- those votes get "counted" with bonus points for getting it correct at the earliest possible date. If those analysts were actually convinced that he was going to MSU, all of their votes would have been switched to us already AS SOON AS they became convinced of his intentions. The fact that they haven't changed them says that they still think their initial picks are correct...

[smootness]

A lot of their busts, especially under Orgeron, were in fact the more highly-rated guys.

Jerrell Powe, Chris Strong, Raymond Cotton, Bobby Massie, Ethan Lane, Cordera Eason, Pat Patterson, Craig Drummond, Terry Levy, Delvin Jones, Carlos Thompson, Carlton Martin, Nick Brassell, Tobias Singleton, a host of JUCOs that never did anything (seriously, you should go look at how many of their 4- and 5-star guys have been JUCOs; Brent Schaeffer, Wayne Dorsey, AJ Jackson among them)...

Meanwhile, Patrick Willis, Peria Jerry, Shay Hodge, Dexter McCluster, Denzel Nkemdiche, and Cody Prewitt were all 2-stars or low 3-stars.

[smootness]

The fact that they haven't changed them says that they still think their initial picks are correct...

That is an assumption, one that has no basis in fact.

Some of those guys probably haven't thought about Tee Shepard since August when they initially made a prediction. Since he named us the leader on a different site, some may have no idea yet that he is looking at us more now. Some may just be waiting until they're more sure one way or another before changing anything.

You honestly think that every single person who thought Gennesy would pick Ole Miss still thinks he will pick Ole Miss? Because those predictions haven't changed, yet you're using the 90% as some sort of support for the idea that Ole Miss will still get him.

Do you think all of those people who make the predictions get up every day and go through every single player in the database, research all the current information out there about them, and evaluate whether or not they should change their inital prediction? Come on.

[Todd4State]

A lot of their busts, especially under Orgeron, were in fact the more highly-rated guys.

Jerrell Powe, Chris Strong, Raymond Cotton, Bobby Massie, Ethan Lane, Cordera Eason, Pat Patterson, Craig Drummond, Terry Levy, Delvin Jones, Carlos Thompson, Carlton Martin, Nick Brassell, Tobias Singleton, a host of JUCOs that never did anything (seriously, you should go look at how many of their 4- and 5-star guys have been JUCOs; Brent Schaeffer, Wayne Dorsey, AJ Jackson among them)...

Meanwhile, Patrick Willis, Peria Jerry, Shay Hodge, Dexter McCluster, Denzel Nkemdiche, and Cody Prewitt were all 2-stars or low 3-stars.

You just pointed something else out that I never have understood about recruiting- almost all JUCO players are 4 star guys. I think a JUCO recruit that they haven't seen play gets a three star rating automatically whereas a high school kid gets a 2 star rating.

[engie]

That is an assumption, one that has no basis in fact.

Some of those guys probably haven't thought about Tee Shepard since August when they initially made a prediction. Since he named us the leader on a different site, some may have no idea yet that he is looking at us more now. Some may just be waiting until they're more sure one way or another before changing anything.

You honestly think that every single person who thought Gennesy would pick Ole Miss still thinks he will pick Ole Miss? Because those predictions haven't changed, yet you're using the 90% as some sort of support for the idea that Ole Miss will still get him.

Do you think all of those people who make the predictions get up every day and go through every single player in the database, research all the current information out there about them, and evaluate whether or not they should change their inital prediction? Come on.

Do you understand how it works at all? Your Gennesy example basically shows me that you don't -- because once a player picks a school, it locks people's predictions in. They thought he was going to OM and he surprised them(similarly to Pack). You generally see a HEAVY fluctuation of picks to a given school in the days and weeks leading up to an announcement.

These guys' fulltime jobs in many cases are following, talking to, and predicting these kids. The fact that Paul Jones hasn't yet predicted Shepard to us tells me volumes -- whether you choose to ignore it or not.

JUCO recruiting is a total crapshoot to a much greater extent than highschool recruiting. Crazy things happen every single year. 2 years ago, everyone thought Autry was headed to Tennessee before he ended up with us. Last year, everyone thought Za'Darius Smith was going to be a Dawg or Aggie -- before sending his letter to Kentucky. We didn't know for sure we were getting Cox over Bama until his letter actually showed up. We thought it was us or Auburn for Toby Johnson before sending his letter to Georgia. Thought we had Tommy Sanders in the bag before he ended up at aTm. Insane stuff like this happens literally every single year in JUCO recruiting....

[dawgs]

I bet they get a lot of the five star guys right. I think the further down they go, the less accurate they become if I had to guess.

Some of it is a numbers issue. There are so many high school football players out there and they are trying to assign ratings to all of them.

Some of it is an evaluation issue. They don't take work ethic or academics into account with their ratings at all. The schools like Alabama and LSU that get their five star guys do- I guarantee you that. And that's part of the reason why their guys pan out more than they do at say, Ole Miss.

What I do - and I encourage other fans to do this as well- is to forget the stars and watch their video or go watch them play in person on Friday nights. The casual fan can evaluate these players about as well as the ex-furniture salesmen that these web sites employ.

while i think there is some truth to your post, i also think they are largely right. and the sheer number of 3* and 2* recruits means there will be a lot of those guys that pan out, even if the percentage is low. whereas there's like 250-300 4+* guys, there's literally thousands of 2* and 3* guys. no one is going to hit 100% on the predictions.

as for more of the 4+* guys at bama and lsu panning out v. the 4+* guys at ole miss, i think there's truth to what you're saying because bama and lsu and other mega-programs can pick and choose 4*+ guys, whereas programs like ole miss and msu have to take any 4*+ guy that wants to come and hope that he's not a headcase.

[engie]

while i think there is some truth to your post, i also think they are largely right. and the sheer number of 3* and 2* recruits means there will be a lot of those guys that pan out, even if the percentage is low. whereas there's like 250-300 4+* guys, there's literally thousands of 2* and 3* guys. no one is going to hit 100% on the predictions.

as for more of the 4+* guys at bama and lsu panning out v. the 4+* guys at ole miss, i think there's truth to what you're saying because bama and lsu and other mega-programs can pick and choose 4*+ guys, whereas programs like ole miss and msu have to take any 4*+ guy that wants to come and hope that he's not a headcase.

Agreed on all of this

[smootness]

[QUOTE=engie;99577]Do you understand how it works at all? Your Gennesy example basically shows me that you don't -- because once a player picks a school, it locks people's predictions in. They thought he was going to OM and he surprised them(similarly to Pack).[QUOTE]

Don't throw that on me, you're the one who used the Gennesy 90% when evaluating Ole Miss' chances with certain guys. You may not have known he committed to A&M when you posted it, I don't know, but my point still stands - that 90% is not after the commitment to A&M, it was before.

Regardless, these predictions don't change on a day-by-day basis. I can pretty much promise you that once the 247 guys get Shepard on the line and he tells them what he told Scout, their predictions will change.

[smootness]

In regard to the debate as to whether or not Bama and LSU are able to avoid headcases, I think there is some truth to that, but I don't think Bama and LSU are avoiding those issues because they're evaluating guys better or because they don't take guys with character concerns.

I think the fact that they solely recruit top guys means that every player on that team knows that the coach means what he says and that if they don't fall in line, there's somebody behind them just as talented they can go to. Bama and LSU players know they need the program more than the program needs them. That isn't the case with lower-tier programs. Take Nkemdiche - everyone in the country wanted him and would have taken him, including Bama. He seems to have some attitude/character issues. Would he be shoving guys after the whistle at Bama? I seriously doubt it. Why? Because he would know that if he kept doing it, he would just get benched and they would go with some other 5-star stud. At Ole Miss, he knows he's more than likely going to play no matter what, because who else are they going to use?

So you see talented players fall in line more easily at the top programs, not because their character is inherently better, but because they know those programs will put up with less.

[whosyourdawgy]

That safety you refer to single handidly saved our season by basically winning the last 2 games for us. Cox made a great interception out jumping a first round draft pick wr too while playing corner back. I guess maybe y'all should be making 3 million a year it sounds like.

[engie]

Do you understand how it works at all? Your Gennesy example basically shows me that you don't -- because once a player picks a school, it locks people's predictions in. They thought he was going to OM and he surprised them(similarly to Pack).

Don't throw that on me, you're the one who used the Gennesy 90% when evaluating Ole Miss' chances with certain guys. You may not have known he committed to A&M when you posted it, I don't know, but my point still stands - that 90% is not after the commitment to A&M, it was before.

Regardless, these predictions don't change on a day-by-day basis. I can pretty much promise you that once the 247 guys get Shepard on the line and he tells them what he told Scout, their predictions will change.

I don't even know what you are talking about at this point. It's like you don't even know what your own objective is -- other than arguing for the sake of arguing(again) while trying to twist your way out of the understanding my point which was very, very simple. While bumping ANOTHER old "prediction" thread that is still 2+ months away from meaning a damn thing...

The predictions DO, actually, change on a day-to-day basis -- as they feel there is enough info supporting a stance to change it. The fact is -- no one that votes on the 24/7 predictor, which includes DAMN NEAR everyone that follows recruiting for a living, including Talty and a bunch of other "non-24/7" writers, have seen fit to predict Tee Shepard to MSU yet. I fully realize that you are taking what he told Rosey as gospel -- and I damn sure hope we get the guy -- but until it's being noted by MULTIPLE sources, it remains FARRR from any type of a sure thing. I feel decent about getting him -- but I've played the recruiting game for quite a few years now -- I know how this story tends to go more often than not under our current regime -- hence why I'm limiting expectations.

[dawgs]

In regard to the debate as to whether or not Bama and LSU are able to avoid headcases, I think there is some truth to that, but I don't think Bama and LSU are avoiding those issues because they're evaluating guys better or because they don't take guys with character concerns.

I think the fact that they solely recruit top guys means that every player on that team knows that the coach means what he says and that if they don't fall in line, there's somebody behind them just as talented they can go to. Bama and LSU players know they need the program more than the program needs them. That isn't the case with lower-tier programs. Take Nkemdiche - everyone in the country wanted him and would have taken him, including Bama. He seems to have some attitude/character issues. Would he be shoving guys after the whistle at Bama? I seriously doubt it. Why? Because he would know that if he kept doing it, he would just get benched and they would go with some other 5-star stud. At Ole Miss, he knows he's more than likely going to play no matter what, because who else are they going to use?

So you see talented players fall in line more easily at the top programs, not because their character is inherently better, but because they know those programs will put up with less.

that's true too. i think it's definitely a combination. the bama's and lsu's are still going to mis-evaluate guys from time to time, just like anyone. but they also benefit from what you said in that some of those guys that do slip past them are more likely to fall in line knowing that there's a guy just as talented behind them to take their job if they don't perform and/or cause issues with teammates and coaches.

for instance, sidney was the perfect storm in the worst way for our basketball program. the big programs backed off due to off the court issues, but we couldn't really afford to turn him away. and once he was here, he knew he had the most pure talent on the team and that stans wouldn't sit him or send him packing because of that.

[Todd4State]

In regard to the debate as to whether or not Bama and LSU are able to avoid headcases, I think there is some truth to that, but I don't think Bama and LSU are avoiding those issues because they're evaluating guys better or because they don't take guys with character concerns.

I think the fact that they solely recruit top guys means that every player on that team knows that the coach means what he says and that if they don't fall in line, there's somebody behind them just as talented they can go to. Bama and LSU players know they need the program more than the program needs them. That isn't the case with lower-tier programs. Take Nkemdiche - everyone in the country wanted him and would have taken him, including Bama. He seems to have some attitude/character issues. Would he be shoving guys after the whistle at Bama? I seriously doubt it. Why? Because he would know that if he kept doing it, he would just get benched and they would go with some other 5-star stud. At Ole Miss, he knows he's more than likely going to play no matter what, because who else are they going to use?

So you see talented players fall in line more easily at the top programs, not because their character is inherently better, but because they know those programs will put up with less.

Also at Alabama and LSU there is less pressure for them to play and immediately contribute as freshmen since those schools don't have to rely on freshmen as much. They give their recruits time to mature whether that be redshirting them, putting them in a back-up role as a true freshman or whatever.

At Ole Miss, they get a highly rated class and they expect every single one of their top tier recruits to contribute and play like seniors as freshmen. Then when they go 7-6 and everyone realizes that they aren't Jerry Rice and Michael Strahan's out there things get ugly.

Even us, really the only true freshman that started was Chris Jones, but he is a truly special talent. We played a few true freshmen like Bear Wilson, Shumpert, Clayborn etc. but most of them were in reserve roles and Clayborn probably would have been redshirted had we not had some injuries at guard. And the same could be said of Damien Williams- if Tyler doesn't get a concussion, I doubt we burn his redshirt.