Video on the ARK HS coach who never punts

[Irondawg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGDaOJAYHfo&feature=youtu.be

[smootness]

I think it's a very good strategy in general, but it obviously would have to be adjusted here and there. For instance, if you're down 2 with 6 seconds left on the opponent's 25, you're obviously going to try the field goal...but then you don't have someone who routinely kicks. Same if you're down 6 and score a TD late. You going to go for 2 there?

And I like the onside kick strategy. But it's still very risky. They're successfully recovering 20% of theirs right now. That is a great % overall for the season. But this is football, where everything comes down to one game. Say in that game, you kick off 4-5 times and don't recover any of them; you've just put yourself at a disadvantage in that game.

So it's obviously creative and works over time, but it would have to be tweaked here and there.

[CadaverDawg]

I think it's a very good strategy in general, but it obviously would have to be adjusted here and there. For instance, if you're down 2 with 6 seconds left on the opponent's 25, you're obviously going to try the field goal...but then you don't have someone who routinely kicks. Same if you're down 6 and score a TD late. You going to go for 2 there?

And I like the onside kick strategy. But it's still very risky. They're successfully recovering 20% of theirs right now. That is a great % overall for the season. But this is football, where everything comes down to one game. Say in that game, you kick off 4-5 times and don't recover any of them; you've just put yourself at a disadvantage in that game.

So it's obviously creative and works over time, but it would have to be tweaked here and there.

I agree.

He obviously has a pretty good team anyway too. If you were starting this strategy as the head coach of say..Greenville Weston, and were in a region with Madison Central, Warren central, Clinton, etc... This strategy would get you destroyed quickly. You would have to at least be a mediocre team to even think about trying it, otherwise you end up with a bunch of 85-0 blowout losses because you take away any chances of kicking field goals or playing the field position game.

For instance...if we applied this strategy on Saturday, we would probably be down 45-0 at halftime. I just think it has worked for him because he already had a middle of the pack, or better, team to begin with...and doing this just puts that much more pressure on teams you are already better than or equal to.

But, it's working for him and his team so he should keep doing it. I don't ever see it sweeping the country or anything, unless it is handled like smootness said, and common sense is applied in certain situations and against certain opponents.

[Bo Darville]

I agree with this coach statistically. You have do the math at every level though. He is basing his decision not to punt on the odds of converting a 4th down compared to the gain in field position by actually punting. He is using high school statistics, as he should. A college punter is going to kick it further than a high school punter. That changes the math for a college coach. I watched a high school game where the punter was so bad that everytime the team punted, the ball was only moved about 15-20 yards from the original line of scrimmage. I sat in the stands and wondered why they just didn't go for it on 4th down.

[Jack Lambert]

If I was a highschool football coach and had a above average defense I would always on sid kick the kick off. The law of average will give me the ball and my defense will hold or get a turn over if I don't get the ball on average.

[Irondawg]

Agree - it's a much better strategy for HS than college and even then it would need to be tweaked. I mean if you're up 4 with one min left and pinned on your own 5 with 4th and 10 you punt period. Or like you said, you're down 1 with 10 second left and at the opponent 20, you try to kick the FG

[FISHDAWG]

you guys sound like .....

http://blogfifty.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/tin-cup.jpg

[BulldogBear]

Realisticly you should rarely punt unless inside your own 40. It's true you'll blow a game by never punting but I'll bet you'll win two you lost. Think of all the sustained drives and points scored. IT IS NO HARDER TO MAKE A 4th and 2 than a 3rd and 2 or 2nd and 2.

[smootness]

It's true you'll blow a game by never punting but I'll bet you'll win two you lost.

This is exactly my point. Over time, it works. In a one game scenario, you have to be able to tweak it as need be.

[smootness]

you guys sound like .....

http://blogfifty.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/tin-cup.jpg

This strategy is actually the best of both worlds. It is aggressive and is playing the percentages.

[FISHDAWG]

please dont give Dan any ideas

[CadaverDawg]

Realisticly you should rarely punt unless inside your own 40. It's true you'll blow a game by never punting but I'll bet you'll win two you lost. Think of all the sustained drives and points scored. IT IS NO HARDER TO MAKE A 4th and 2 than a 3rd and 2 or 2nd and 2.

I agree, but it frustrates the hell out of me when a team has a 3rd and 1, doesn't make it, then on 4th and 1 they try running it up the middle when everyone knows that is the obvious play call, and they get stuffed again. Why not run a normal play? Or better yet, if you know you'll go for it on 4th down if you don't make it on 3rd down, why not stay in your same formation and just run a play as if it is 2nd and 7 or something? For some coaches to be so smart at football, you sure see a lot of them that allow situations to dictate what they do, and completely take them away from what has been working for them.

Another example would be the prevent defense, or going conservative on offense to try and run clock. If prevent kept teams from scoring, you would run it all game. If what you have been running on offense has gotten you a lead, keep doing it and you won't need to run clock because you will be ahead by more points.

It's shit like that that drives me insane.

End rant

[Maroonthirteen]

[QUOTE=CadaverDawg;87009]I agree.

He obviously has a pretty good team anyway too. QUOTE]

Yep, Pulaski Academy usually has more talent than their opponents. It is the top private school in central Arkansas. Also, over there, some private school programs are the best in the state because of recruiting and facilities.

By the way, Cabot, the team they played in the opening highlights, has an old coach who still runs the T formation. Cabot is 99% run every game and usually burns a entire quarter off the clock if they can sustain a drive. That coach would be a legend in some parts of MS.

[smootness]

Another example would be the prevent defense, or going conservative on offense to try and run clock. If prevent kept teams from scoring, you would run it all game.

I think the prevent was initially run in situations where a team needed one play to score or had to go 80 yards in 10 seconds. For some reason, just about everybody, and especially us, now goes to it in situations where a team has to drive the field in like a minute.

It makes no sense. Sure, if their only hope is a big play, use the prevent. But if they have time to run 6 plays of 10-15 yards on the sideline and still score on you, why in the world would you use the prevent?

[angusyoung]

We recently moved to Nashville but I sent my boys to that school for the last 4 years when we lived in Little Rock.

They would win all the games they win regardless of the no punt/onside kick strategy. High school talent in Arkansas is terrible so the competition isn't very good. I saw many games where it was 42-0 at the end of the 1st qtr and the opponent hadn't touched the ball one time. Kind of embarrassing actually.

On the flip side, I have seen them lose games against an equal opponent bc they went for it on 4th down inside their own 20 and didn't make it.

[WeWillScrewItUp]

As someone that grew up in Arkansas and played the same division different conference as PA I will tell y'all that are guessing that they are a decent team are correct. They are usually one of the better teams in the state. Also PA is a private school playing against public schools. There are a handful of schools like them in Arkansas and I have always felt they have had an unfair advantage due to them being a private school and being able to get people from abroad not just in their zone.

[Todd4State]

If it were me, I would be fairly aggressive. I would very rarely punt on my opponents territory. If you punt, unless you just nail it and pin them inside the 10, you are only netting about 20-30 yards. Now, if I was in my opponents territory on say, the 40 or 45 and it was 4th and 25 or something like that, I would probably punt.

I HATE it when it's 4th and 1 or 4th and inches and we punt. Send in Dak and sneak it. I feel like we should be good enough to get a yard- but of course we NEVER do it- unless it's the end of the game and we have no choice.

I don't agree with the onside kicking every kickoff. Odds are you aren't going to get the ball because it's hard to pull it off in the first place. Second of all you put the other team around the 50.

[Todd4State]

I agree, but it frustrates the hell out of me when a team has a 3rd and 1, doesn't make it, then on 4th and 1 they try running it up the middle when everyone knows that is the obvious play call, and they get stuffed again. Why not run a normal play? Or better yet, if you know you'll go for it on 4th down if you don't make it on 3rd down, why not stay in your same formation and just run a play as if it is 2nd and 7 or something? For some coaches to be so smart at football, you sure see a lot of them that allow situations to dictate what they do, and completely take them away from what has been working for them.

Another example would be the prevent defense, or going conservative on offense to try and run clock. If prevent kept teams from scoring, you would run it all game. If what you have been running on offense has gotten you a lead, keep doing it and you won't need to run clock because you will be ahead by more points.

It's shit like that that drives me insane.

End rant

I agree with much of what you said, but we should be able to run an obvious play and get one yard. That's about being physical more than anything. It's about down and distance and odds. I like to be conventional on 4th and 1 because we HAVE to reduce the chances of screwing up as much as possible. Who would you rather have the ball on 4th and 1? Morrow or Robinson? And yes, that's a strawman arguement, but you get my point. I wish we had run a conservative play against LSU five years ago- I know that much.

I agree that we go into prevent WAY too soon. We should only go to prevent with 30 seconds on the clock as opposed to 2 minutes and change.

And I don't mind running it late in the game, but we need to be more creative with the run calls. We start running Dak and that's about it.

[CadaverDawg]

I agree with much of what you said, but we should be able to run an obvious play and get one yard. That's about being physical more than anything. It's about down and distance and odds. I like to be conventional on 4th and 1 because we HAVE to reduce the chances of screwing up as much as possible. Who would you rather have the ball on 4th and 1? Morrow or Robinson? And yes, that's a strawman arguement, but you get my point. I wish we had run a conservative play against LSU five years ago- I know that much.

I agree that we go into prevent WAY too soon. We should only go to prevent with 30 seconds on the clock as opposed to 2 minutes and change.

And I don't mind running it late in the game, but we need to be more creative with the run calls. We start running Dak and that's about it.

I agree. And I guess I need to be more clear on my 4th and short thoughts. My point is, you can't be in shotgun formation, against a SEC D, everyone know what's coming, and plunge Dak forward for a yard. You get his ass up under center and QB sneak it...that way you only have to get 1 yard instead of 5. I hate running short yardage in shotgun. And I know Dak doesn't practice much under center, but we need to be able to get under center in a 4th and inches situation. We can out physical a lot of teams, but it doesn't matter if it's an inch against Bama and LSU that is still hard to get from shotgun

[jimbo352]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGDaOJAYHfo&feature=youtu.be

Did Freeze watch this before the Bama game??? :cool:


I like it, but I don't think it would work at the next level... Not this extreme anyway...

[Todd4State]

I agree. And I guess I need to be more clear on my 4th and short thoughts. My point is, you can't be in shotgun formation, against a SEC D, everyone know what's coming, and plunge Dak forward for a yard. You get his ass up under center and QB sneak it...that way you only have to get 1 yard instead of 5. I hate running short yardage in shotgun. And I know Dak doesn't practice much under center, but we need to be able to get under center in a 4th and inches situation. We can out physical a lot of teams, but it doesn't matter if it's an inch against Bama and LSU that is still hard to get from shotgun

I agree with that. I don't like being in the shotgun on a short yardage down and in a short yardage situation. The whole point with the shotgun to start with is to give your QB a head start on the pass rush and to the defense better.

[smootness]

I don't mind a guy like Dak doing it from the shotgun (mm hmm). He's able to get a head of steam and move anyone who may hit him forward a yard or two. If he's under center, it's tougher for him to be able to move anybody. You just have to rely on your OL then to get the push, and if they get the push you need from under center, it should be enough for you to convert from the shotgun, too.

If the DL is hitting your QB in the backfield in a shotgun set, you weren't going to convert it from under center anyway.

What I hate is the lack of creativity of any kind. I would run some speed option here and there, have him throw it every once in a while...