Foxhall is garbage

[Cooterpoot]

Take Sims and Bednar out, and this staff has been bad. The rotation fell apart. He refuses to pull guys. He's awful.

[Dawg2003]

I don't understand how these guys have regressed so badly. MacLeod and Fristoe look completely different.

[Mjoelner34]

We have 15 guys that can THROW 95 but we have 2 guys that can PITCH.

[Cooterpoot]

We have 15 guys that can THROW 95 but we have 2 guys that can PITCH.

Pitch? Pitch? Hell, they can't even throw strikes.

[Homedawg]

Take Sims and Bednar out, and this staff has been bad. The rotation fell apart. He refuses to pull guys. He's awful.

You think the entire staff sucks. So there's that. Yet here we are... give it a rest.

[Harrydawg]

You are making a fool of yourself?..again

[MaroonFlounder]

Take Sims and Bednar out, and this staff has been bad. The rotation fell apart. He refuses to pull guys. He's awful.

So it's his call when to pull guys and not Lem's?

[MaroonFlounder]

We have 15 guys that can THROW 95 but we have 2 guys that can PITCH.


UNICORNS ��

[Homedawg]

So it's his call when to pull guys and not Lem's?

He has lots of say... ultimately it's lem. But it's a lot like Polk w Mac.

[Cooterpoot]

You think the entire staff sucks. So there's that. Yet here we are... give it a rest.

Rode Bednar and Sims and Johnson. This staff fell apart late in the year. Three starters are toast. This coach isn't good. Left Mac in tonight. Never gave other guys a chance to start in his place (see Smith right now).
You can attempt to argue, but you'll lose. NC State upgraded at pitching coach when he left.

[Cooterpoot]

So it's his call when to pull guys and not Lem's?

That is correct. Lemonis has already said that.

[Homedawg]

Rode Bednar and Sims and Johnson. This staff fell apart late in the year. Three starters are toast. This coach isn't good. Left Mac in tonight. Never gave other guys a chance to start in his place (see Smith right now).
You can attempt to argue, but you'll lose. NC State upgraded at pitching coach when he left.

Again, you are on the record multiple times fox sucks. Wanted goat to leave cause he sucks. Said lemonis is not good. So our staff sucks. You said it. Amazing. Either, we were the most talented team in the country, which you said otherwise,( and I'd agree on that one) OR they can't all suck. Or the players win and the coaches lose? Which appears to be your motto!!

[Homedawg]

That is correct. Lemonis has already said that.

See above.

[Irondawg]

The truth probably lies somewhere in between. I don?t think Foxhall is terrible but I?m not sure he?s elite for college either.

[Homedawg]

The truth probably lies somewhere in between. I don?t think Foxhall is terrible but I?m not sure he?s elite for college either.

So he, goat and lem all suck? Gotcha or somewhere in between?

[Irondawg]

I?m not sure what point you are trying to make. I?m saying he doesn?t suck but some lack of development by some guys is a bit concerning. I think he?s a ?c?

I really like Lemonis and think he?s really good.

[TNDawg35]

We are Fixen to break the NCAA record for strike outs in a season, with mostly freshman… We are two games fro
Winning a national title. We have a fresh Sims and Bednar on short rest to gm2 and gm3.

I think he has done a great job.

[Hambone]

What TN said.

You don’t have sucky pitching while setting a national record.

Understand the disappointment after a loss but your ignorance is showing through today.

[RiverCityDawg]

Again, you are on the record multiple times fox sucks. Wanted goat to leave cause he sucks. Said lemonis is not good. So our staff sucks. You said it. Amazing. Either, we were the most talented team in the country, which you said otherwise,( and I'd agree on that one) OR they can't all suck. Or the players win and the coaches lose? Which appears to be your motto!!

It's unbelievable. We have, what, 4ish players that had even played an SEC game before this year? Yet here we are in the championship series, yet our staff sucks. Freshmen playing SS and DH, catcher playing first, defensive end playing left, had to move your SS to third, your other third baseman quit, yet here with are with a staff that sucks. Crazy.

[SilentSteel16]

Some people don?t understand the sack these coaches have to have made it where we are today. Yes our rotation has had issues with the strike zone, but these coaches of ours made some really big position players gambles that have paid off. Do they leave pitchers in too long, the answer is yes at times. But I hate the analytics of baseball nowadays. Go with your gut and be a baseball player and coach. Y?all need to back off these coaches and players they have managed the hell out of this team. You forget we are still playing for a national title. That is why you play a series not all in game one. Hell of a job Lem, Gotro and Fox. Hell of a job by the players. This maybe is the best TEAM State has ever had. Notice I did not say best players but TEAM. There is a huge difference I would take these kids playing together everyday over superstars individual players every time

[Jack Lambert]

How many runs did Vandy score on our back ups last night? How many did TX score on them. Mac has lost his mojo. He should not have started or at lest have someone ready to go at any moment.

[SilentSteel16]

How many runs did Vandy score on our back ups last night? How many did TX score on them. Mac has lost his mojo. He should not have started or at lest have someone ready to go at any moment.

Last night was 2 runs, Mac started as a Hail Mary which you have to do sometimes in a tournament. Kind of like multiple personalities, you hope the right one shows up to the cookout. Yes I agree someone should have been staged because we all knew we would have an answer as to what pitcher showed up in less than 3 hitters. But having a guy already burning in pen would have just been wasteful.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I really thought outside of starting Macleod our pitching decisions were good last night. Some people will have a problem with putting Chase Patrick in there, but I understand the thinking that we're trying to get a quick ground ball to get out of that inning. I thought Cade Smith was electric. Brandon Smith looked good. It was nice to see Fristoe come in and get outs, even though they were barreling balls up it was good to see him throw strikes. I thought KC Hunt gave us a couple of good innings as well.

Overall, our starter was terrible and there's no way around it. But I thought our young arms really showed out on a big stage.

[Cooterpoot]

Take the big three off this team and we aren't a big strike out staff. Three guys carried a staff that fell completely apart under the watch of Foxhall. Our FR was great, but Fox hasn't had a chance to kill him yet. He also didn't have the confidence to start him late in the season and he should have. How many times does Mac have to die on the hill to get him out?

[Jack Lambert]

Take the big three off this team and we aren't a big strike out staff. Three guys carried a staff that fell completely apart under the watch of Foxhall. Our FR was great, but Fox hasn't had a chance to kill him yet. He also didn't have the confidence to start him late in the season and he should have. How many times does Mac have to die on the hill to get him out?

That's probably 99% of all teams.

[WinningIsRelentless]

Take the big three off this team and we aren't a big strike out staff. Three guys carried a staff that fell completely apart under the watch of Foxhall. Our FR was great, but Fox hasn't had a chance to kill him yet. He also didn't have the confidence to start him late in the season and he should have. How many times does Mac have to die on the hill to get him out?

It?s more mental than anything with Christian right now. Nothing Foxhall can really do about that. If Justin hadn?t fallen off after first of April Christian would have probably been moved to the pen.

[Cowbell]

Take Sims and Bednar out, and this staff has been bad. The rotation fell apart. He refuses to pull guys. He's awful.

What about all our bullpen arms that keep leaving us in games? Hes not perfect but we are playing for a National Championship right now.

Somebody needs to delete this thread. We are still playing for a natty. Talk about it later if you want. But this is trash. Absolute trash. You guys want to talk about players nutting up. We need some fans to nut up and realize we have made if further than we should already and to not trash our people.

[Cowbell]

Take the big three off this team and we aren't a big strike out staff. Three guys carried a staff that fell completely apart under the watch of Foxhall. Our FR was great, but Fox hasn't had a chance to kill him yet. He also didn't have the confidence to start him late in the season and he should have. How many times does Mac have to die on the hill to get him out?

Take the big 3 off? Are you serious? Yeah lets see how many teams have great pitching after their weekend starters....

[Tbonewannabe]

Take the big 3 off? Are you serious? Yeah lets see how many teams have great pitching after their weekend starters....

So is Vandy playing for a Title without Rocker and Leiter? The answer is no. They probably don't even make it out of a regional without those two.

[SilentSteel16]

What about all our bullpen arms that keep leaving us in games? Hes not perfect but we are playing for a National Championship right now.

Somebody needs to delete this thread. We are still playing for a natty. Talk about it later if you want. But this is trash. Absolute trash. You guys want to talk about players nutting up. We need some fans to nut up and realize we have made if further than we should already and to not trash our people.

If you read my posts I am very PRO- our coaching staff and team. I think they have done a phenomenal job just getting us to this point. I still think we win this series. There is no bat minus their 9 hole hitter that I even hesitate throwing 1st or 2nd pitch FB to.

[FISHDAWG]

We are Fixen to break the NCAA record for strike outs in a season, with mostly freshman? We are two games fro
Winning a national title. We have a fresh Sims and Bednar on short rest to gm2 and gm3.

I think he has done a great job.

Can't rep you yet so I will just say good comments and I believe the vast majority think this staff is doing good ... l think Cooter would probably say the same thing to himself in private

[Lord McBuckethead]

Take Sims and Bednar out, and this staff has been bad. The rotation fell apart. He refuses to pull guys. He's awful.

Dude, we are facing the best of the best and have for 3 weeks now. Our staff is alright. We are 2 wins away from being the last team standing. Foxhall isn't garbage. I have no idea why our pitchers only have two pitches a piece, but he isn't garbage. In college you only need 2 pitches.
Both Bednar and Sims attack the zone and mix up their pitches well. Mac had issues once his curve was flat and served up over the plate. Anytime he tries to get to the edge, he walks people. Just not dominate in any way. Batters just simply do not swing at anything he throws with movement and jump on hung pitches and 89mph fastballs. We can do the same thing, unfortunately we had to play the top 4 pitchers in the entire tourney once we get to Rocker.

[Lord McBuckethead]

What about all our bullpen arms that keep leaving us in games? Hes not perfect but we are playing for a National Championship right now.

Somebody needs to delete this thread. We are still playing for a natty. Talk about it later if you want. But this is trash. Absolute trash. You guys want to talk about players nutting up. We need some fans to nut up and realize we have made if further than we should already and to not trash our people.

Yep, fans need to nut up too.

[PMDawg]

I don't know enough to say one way or the other, but it is at least weird. We've made it this far, so it can't be all bad. But at the same time, you have Cerentola never developing (could be an outlier, could be all on Cerentola) and then you have Mac and Fristoe regressing as the season went on. SOMETHING is going on. Koestler is another one that seems to have regressed through the years. I just don't know. It's hard to complain about the staff when you look at the overall results, but there's enough here to see a trend with pitching. But, again, I don't know enough to put a finger on it.

[Cowbell]

I don't know enough to say one way or the other, but it is at least weird. We've made it this far, so it can't be all bad. But at the same time, you have Cerentola never developing (could be an outlier, could be all on Cerentola) and then you have Mac and Fristoe regressing as the season went on. SOMETHING is going on. Koestler is another one that seems to have regressed through the years. I just don't know. It's hard to complain about the staff when you look at the overall results, but there's enough here to see a trend with pitching. But, again, I don't know enough to put a finger on it.

How about Mac and Fristoe basically being freshman in experience. People forget that. It's not like we are pitching juniors.

[BrunswickDawg]

I don't know enough to say one way or the other, but it is at least weird. We've made it this far, so it can't be all bad. But at the same time, you have Cerentola never developing (could be an outlier, could be all on Cerentola) and then you have Mac and Fristoe regressing as the season went on. SOMETHING is going on. Koestler is another one that seems to have regressed through the years. I just don't know. It's hard to complain about the staff when you look at the overall results, but there's enough here to see a trend with pitching. But, again, I don't know enough to put a finger on it.

Sometimes - in fact most times - players who don't "develop" are players who are maxing out their talent and abilities. Doesn't matter how hard they work or how much time they put in, they have hit their ceiling. Coaching doesn't change that.

[Kingbarkus]

I wish Cade Smith would have started. I watched him finish up the Texas loss walking the bases full but getting out of it. I think he got familiar with the mound, showed command, and looked great last night. Ballsy move to start him but Mac didn?t earn that start.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I wish Cade Smith would have started. I watched him finish up the Texas loss walking the bases full but getting out of it. I think he got familiar with the mound, showed command, and looked great last night. Ballsy move to start him but Mac didn?t earn that start.

I agree. I thought Cade looked really good against Notre Dame and then looked great against Texas and again last night. I would've gone to him as well as the starter and think we need to look at him to piggyback with Bednar if we can make it to a Game 3.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

2 things can be true: 1) the staff isn't bad. 2) the staff is poorly coached.

Fact is going into the year we had Mac, Bednar, Cerantola, Fristo, and Cade as the electric arms that might start, and Hootie as the consistent OK but low ceiling guy. Well only Bednar is a stud, with Mac starting this year 1-2 mph slower than he was in 2020 and he got worse as the year went on. So we hit on 1/5 of the high ceiling guys.

Bullpen wise, Brandon Smith got worse as the year went on. PJ is good, but isn't precise enough with his pitches to max out his potential. Stinnett has great stuff but hasn't gotten any less wild as the year went on. Tepper, Hunt, and some other talented guys made zero improvement and we didn't make the effort to get them work.

Starting wise, how the heck can Mac have a slower FB than last year and get worse stuff, with less confidence, as this year went on? He's like the Benjamin button of pitchers. Fristo fell off a cliff, Cerantola didn't take any steps forward.

So yeah, the staff is OK because we have a lot of talent on the roster, but there's no denying several guys got worse as the year went on and none of the talented arms ever broke though as the year went on. That's concerning, even if you say Foxhaul is a good enough recruiter that well always have a ton of talent.

Foxhaul cares too much about consistency, and not enough about potential. Oh, Tepper and Cade are throwing 95 with movement but can't locate it, so rather than let them work through it let's stick with B Smith and PJ who sit at 91-2 with less movement. We could have had Cade be at this point a month ago, and we might have let him start game 1. But we never gave him the shot to prove himself

[R2Dawg]

I really thought outside of starting Macleod our pitching decisions were good last night. Some people will have a problem with putting Chase Patrick in there, but I understand the thinking that we're trying to get a quick ground ball to get out of that inning. I thought Cade Smith was electric. Brandon Smith looked good. It was nice to see Fristoe come in and get outs, even though they were barreling balls up it was good to see him throw strikes. I thought KC Hunt gave us a couple of good innings as well.

Overall, our starter was terrible and there's no way around it. But I thought our young arms really showed out on a big stage.

Agree. I had no problem with Patrick. He throws strikes and is a good change of pace transition guy. We just needed strikes and a minute to figure out the plan in bull pen. Patrick was good pick. Throw a good strike and anyone can get one. Sims has given up two in the run.

[basedog]

Cooter, please get your chip off your shoulder, we feel your frustration, but to say we don't have so and so then we wouldn't be good is just plain ridiculous! You can't cherry pick players when they are on a team and say crap like that. It's nothing wrong with you are anyone not liking a Coach or player but quit saying the "what if crap".

I'm not like a few on ED, I am so thankful were we are with this team and the season we are having. Winning 48 games and playing for a National Championship isn't a easy thing to do.

I think we win tonight!

[PMDawg]

Sometimes - in fact most times - players who don't "develop" are players who are maxing out their talent and abilities. Doesn't matter how hard they work or how much time they put in, they have hit their ceiling. Coaching doesn't change that.

That explains Cerentola. It doesn't explain regressions. Brandon Smith too, someone brought him up and I had forgotten. We have at least 4 guys who have regressed this year.

[SilentSteel16]

Base I think anyone that has actually played, coached or been around a team day in and day out knows how much this teams has ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED. I played ball in college as well, not at this level but I know what it takes in September to be competitive in May. Most people don’t have a clue. The kids that are on this team are HIGHLY TALENTED and probably in the top 5 percent of the entire population considering everyone played baseball at one point in their lives. Most decided ya know I am better at being a banker than being a ball player or coach.

To those of you that are bashing coaches, if you knew half as much as you think you know you would be making these decisions as the head coach. Yet you chose your other profession as did I. Shut up and just know you are a fan and what you say has not a single bearing on the game. Granted, I know there are 4 current players that are on this current Omaha team that do read ED. Don’t make a fool of the rest of us by dogging a player when you couldn’t cut it in your time. These kids and coaches are so far above my and your level even in our PRIME. Get over yourself and enjoy the ride that these kids take us on. Hail State and shut your mouth unless you can do better.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

That explains Cerentola. It doesn't explain regressions. Brandon Smith too, someone brought him up and I had forgotten. We have at least 4 guys who have regressed this year.

And zero that have broken though. And for those that want to count C Smith last night, to me he's kinda like Cumbest in that all he needed was reps to gain experience and the coaches, if anything, impeded their progress by not giving them their fair share of them. They refused to let Cumbest play over Skinner, and they refused to let C Smith get innings over B Smith, for example

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

And I know I'm dogging them but I really don't hate our cosches.theyve done some good things. Jake G has had a lot of inexperienced guys he's had to play rather than let sit a year, lemo has had to work around defensive issues, and I like the way we saved Sims for postseason and tried to let Fristo work through his Fr wall. But I do feel that mistakes were made and they just may be that 1% we needed to win it all

[BrunswickDawg]

2 things can be true: 1) the staff isn't bad. 2) the staff is poorly coached.

Fact is going into the year we had Mac, Bednar, Cerantola, Fristo, and Cade as the electric arms that might start, and Hootie as the consistent OK but low ceiling guy. Well only Bednar is a stud, with Mac starting this year 1-2 mph slower than he was in 2020 and he got worse as the year went on. So we hit on 1/5 of the high ceiling guys.

Bullpen wise, Brandon Smith got worse as the year went on. PJ is good, but isn't precise enough with his pitches to max out his potential. Stinnett has great stuff but hasn't gotten any less wild as the year went on. Tepper, Hunt, and some other talented guys made zero improvement and we didn't make the effort to get them work.

Starting wise, how the heck can Mac have a slower FB than last year and get worse stuff, with less confidence, as this year went on? He's like the Benjamin button of pitchers. Fristo fell off a cliff, Cerantola didn't take any steps forward.

So yeah, the staff is OK because we have a lot of talent on the roster, but there's no denying several guys got worse as the year went on and none of the talented arms ever broke though as the year went on. That's concerning, even if you say Foxhaul is a good enough recruiter that well always have a ton of talent.

Foxhaul cares too much about consistency, and not enough about potential. Oh, Tepper and Cade are throwing 95 with movement but can't locate it, so rather than let them work through it let's stick with B Smith and PJ who sit at 91-2 with less movement. We could have had Cade be at this point a month ago, and we might have let him start game 1. But we never gave him the shot to prove himself

I'm going to turn this around on you a bit.

Coming into the season we really only had 1 known starter - Mac - a COVID Freshman with no SEC experience. Our starting rotation opening weekend was Mac, Hooty, & Fristoe. Not a single career SEC start. Bednar was coming back from injury and didn't even pitch in relief until the 3rd week of the season, then didn't have a real start until March 20. Another pitcher with no SEC experience. All of our contributing pitchers this year are either underclassmen or JUCO guys who have no SEC experience.
Mac, Hooty, Fristoe, Bednar, B Smith, C Smith, Cerantola, Presto, Stinnet, Simmons, Hunt, Tepper, Sims, and Patrick had a combined 17 innings of SEC experience - all between B Smith and Cerantola (a guy coming back from major injury and a headcase).

We had no clue at all how those guys would perform - and somehow this group finished 4th in the league and set a national record for K's. And that shows no development? Give me a break.

[basedog]

And zero that have broken though. And for those that want to count C Smith last night, to me he's kinda like Cumbest in that all he needed was reps to gain experience and the coaches, if anything, impeded their progress by not giving them their fair share of them. They refused to let Cumbest play over Skinner, and they refused to let C Smith get innings over B Smith, for example

There was a reason for for this, mainly it's about his future and he was told after his injury that he will be needed next year more than this year. He is is just now in the last few weeks in condition and shape, not so much a while back. Btw, for all the so call regression talk, well we have guys improve and get better so things even out. Not every pitcher on our staff are "elites" and many have over achieved and competed very well just like our whole baseball team. You give credit to the coaches putting players in the best situation to get the job done. Sometimes it back fires, it what we call "That's Baseball".

As far as Brandon Smith, his injury set him back some, some kids take longer to get their groove back when injured. Lemonis is a Coach who has patience and gives players a chance, it doesn't always work butoverall he has done a great job the 3 years he has been here.

Off my soap box, being an ex Coach I think I understand more than you arm chair guys, not talking about u "the real Msu is us", those in general.

[Commercecomet24]

I'm going to turn this around on you a bit.

Coming into the season we really only had 1 known starter - Mac - a COVID Freshman with no SEC experience. Our starting rotation opening weekend was Mac, Hooty, & Fristoe. Not a single career SEC start. Bednar was coming back from injury and didn't even pitch in relief until the 3rd week of the season, then didn't have a real start until March 20. Another pitcher with no SEC experience. All of our contributing pitchers this year are either underclassmen or JUCO guys who have no SEC experience.
Mac, Hooty, Fristoe, Bednar, B Smith, C Smith, Cerantola, Presto, Stinnet, Simmons, Hunt, Tepper, Sims, and Patrick had a combined 17 innings of SEC experience - all between B Smith and Cerantola (a guy coming back from major injury and a headcase).

We had no clue at all how those guys would perform - and somehow this group finished 4th in the league and set a national record for K's. And that shows no development? Give me a break.

This exactly and it's because you understand the game. Nobody and I mean nobody gets this far with a garbage coaching staff. This staff has done a heckuva job managing this team and putting them in positions to play for a natty. Very very doubtful anyone on this board could've done that. Can you questions decisions? Sure but the fact remains this staff knows our players way better than we do and they've proved it over the course of this long long season and the grind of the sec and postseason. We've won 48 freaking games 20 sec games and are playing for a NC. Good grief what does it take to make people happy? The little lights are not twinkling I guess. Great post, Brunswick.

[PMDawg]

Hey, I admitted I don't know as much as some of you guys. I wasn't bashing any coaches either, just looking for answers. Looks like we've gotten some pretty good insight too. I get a lot of what you guys are saying, but I still don't get how Mac and Fristoe have becomes shells of their former selves here lately. I just can't wrap my head around that. I played some college sports, and the closest thing I can say I've seen is one golfer I competed with that developed the yips on his short chipping. Came out of nowhere one day, stuck around for almost 3 months, then disappeared as quickly as it set in. I didn't understand that either, but I watched it.

ETA: Regardless of what happens today and (hopefully) tomorrow, I hold no ill will towards any players or coaches. I still appreciate Mac, he helped get us here. And obviously the coaches did a tremendous job. I'll remember this team fondly, and with pride, no matter what happens from here on out. They accomplished more than we could have hoped for.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Couple counters.

1) there's no denying that Mac is worse than last season.

2) there's no denying that Fristo, B Smith, and Mac got worse as this season played out.

3) there's no denying that not a SINGLE ONE of our very talented, if inexperienced, arms broke though as they gained said experience. If experience was the issue they'd have gotten better as the year went on.

4) what the heck does the opening weekend rotation have to do with this? Bednar had a minor injury, Cerantola had Covid. What matters is that of the 5 talented Starter level arms, only Bednar panned out.

5) not many teams had experience. Good arms leave their Jr year, and last year cost everyone SEC experience. But guys like Bednar had an off-season leading up to 20, a third of a season, then a whole other off-season to get ready for now. Covid Fr aren't the same as TFr. Also again, if experience was the issue, they'd get better as they gained it, not worse

[Cowbell]

There was a reason for for this, mainly it's about his future and he was told after his injury that he will be needed next year more than this year. He is is just now in the last few weeks in condition and shape, not so much a while back. Btw, for all the so call regression talk, well we have guys improve and get better so things even out. Not every pitcher on our staff are "elites" and many have over achieved and competed very well just like our whole baseball team. You give credit to the coaches putting players in the best situation to get the job done. Sometimes it back fires, it what we call "That's Baseball".

As far as Brandon Smith, his injury set him back some, some kids take longer to get their groove back when injured. Lemonis is a Coach who has patience and gives players a chance, it doesn't always work butoverall he has done a great job the 3 years he has been here.

Off my soap box, being an ex Coach I think I understand more than you arm chair guys, not talking about u "the real Msu is us", those in general.

I can't rep off my phone or I would - this is dead on - thanks man

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Also I'm not saying we have a "garbage" staff, I'm saying Foxhaul didn't do a good job at the actual developing players side of things. The culture is the best in the country, the recruiting is good, the in game management is elite, but I don't see the evidence Fox is a great developer of talent.

The reason we got "this far", has far more to do with our never give up culture than it does our batting, fielding, or pitching. The sum of our on field parts shouldn't be as good as it is, and that's a testament to the culture

If Cade was hurt I'll remove his handling as one of my critique. There's still a lot of arms that got worse or weren't developed though

[Cowbell]

Couple counters.

1) there's no denying that Mac is worse than last season.

2) there's no denying that Fristo, B Smith, and Mac got worse as this season played out.

3) there's no denying that not a SINGLE ONE of our very talented, if inexperienced, arms broke though as they gained said experience. If experience was the issue they'd have gotten better as the year went on.

4) what the heck does the opening weekend rotation have to do with this? Bednar had a minor injury, Cerantola had Covid. What matters is that of the 5 talented Starter level arms, only Bednar panned out.

5) not many teams had experience. Good arms leave their Jr year, and last year cost everyone SEC experience. But guys like Bednar had an off-season leading up to 20, a third of a season, then a whole other off-season to get ready for now. Covid Fr aren't the same as TFr. Also again, if experience was the issue, they'd get better as they gained it, not worse

Kids get worse because they haven't pitched in games in nearly two years and because teams scout and kids get figured out. Nate Lowe was killing it to start the season for the rangers. The fact that he is batting .245 now is not because of coaching.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Kids get worse because they haven't pitched in games in nearly two years and because teams scout and kids get figured out. Nate Lowe was killing it to start the season for the rangers. The fact that he is batting .245 now is not because of coaching.

You're not understanding me, I'm not saying they've regressed from last year, I'm saying they regressed as this year went on. Can't blame lack of action for people getting worse the more action they get. Mac got worse as the year went on, and I mentioned he's also worse than he was a year ago. So you can say the 2nd of those was the long wait, but not the in season decline.

And Nate low is both a anecdote and a hitter, which is known to have more slumps than pitching.

I'm speaking of multiple pitchers getting worse as the year went on, and literally zero pitchers getting better. That's not an anecdote even if we can find reasons for it for a few of the pitchers

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Look I don't hate Foxhaul, because he's a good recruiter and a good in game manager.

And I truly do hope I'm wrong, because he's going to be our PC next year and I'd like for him to develop our guys. But I feel like we have quite a few talented arms to go by this year, and the fact is none of them got better and several of then got worse asbthe year went on. Maybe it's all a coincidence, but I personally feel the evidence is strong enough to make a case against Foxhauls development job this year.

[BrunswickDawg]

Hey, I admitted I don't know as much as some of you guys. I wasn't bashing any coaches either, just looking for answers. Looks like we've gotten some pretty good insight too. I get a lot of what you guys are saying, but I still don't get how Mac and Fristoe have becomes shells of their former selves here lately. I just can't wrap my head around that. I played some college sports, and the closest thing I can say I've seen is one golfer I competed with that developed the yips on his short chipping. Came out of nowhere one day, stuck around for almost 3 months, then disappeared as quickly as it set in. I didn't understand that either, but I watched it.

ETA: Regardless of what happens today and (hopefully) tomorrow, I hold no ill will towards any players or coaches. I still appreciate Mac, he helped get us here. And obviously the coaches did a tremendous job. I'll remember this team fondly, and with pride, no matter what happens from here on out. They accomplished more than we could have hoped for.

Commerce has alluded to this in other threads - pitchers are strange. I'll add too it, and I know people don't want to hear it, but as Ron Polk says - that's baseball. It's true in Little League, College, and the Pros. Baseball is a team sport that is all about individual performance, and as we humans are flawed, there is no rhyme or reason for how our athletic talents ebb and flow. The story of baseball is strewn with the wreckage of players who showed promise and never developed, or guys who put it all together for a season or two and then crashed and burned. I think sometimes we get blinded by the fact that at every level there are greats who excel for their entire career and forget that the game is not easy nor is it forgiving. We have been damn lucky to watch stars like Jake, Rowdey, and TA - who walked on the field and impacted things almost immediately. We have also had guys like Hunter Renfroe and Brent Rooker who went from raw talents with bad stats to superstars. But, for every one of them, there are 10 other guys who had all the same credentials and expectations when they arrived at MSU who got cut, rarely played, or flamed out. It's a cruel game. And it will turn on you in an instant.

[SilentSteel16]

The ones that are getting worse you say could be something as simple as arm fatigue. Most high school non draftee arms are sheltered more than in college. Mac I do believe is in his own head. He does seem to open his front side up more than he should and that might be why he misses arm side but I think it is mostly mental for him. Fristo I think had a little arm fatigue which would explain why he had a few weeks off. Also, EC did pitch ALOT this off season and who knows if there was a nagging injury or could be fatigue some too. I trust Fox and Lemo. I think they take care of their guys and they know these guys better than we do.

[BrunswickDawg]

Look I don't hate Foxhaul, because he's a good recruiter and a good in game manager.

And I truly do hope I'm wrong, because he's going to be our PC next year and I'd like for him to develop our guys. But I feel like we have quite a few talented arms to go by this year, and the fact is none of them got better and several of then got worse asbthe year went on. Maybe it's all a coincidence, but I personally feel the evidence is strong enough to make a case against Foxhauls development job this year.

I think there are a number of factors. One is the overall inexperience with the SEC that I pointed to - or just call it inexperience as a whole. This was the first full season of D1 ball for most of our staff. Believe it or not, knowing how to work your way thru it is important. We talk about the "freshman wall" on here all the time. With our overall lack of experience on the mound, I think that played a big factor. Another is I think that as a University, we put COVID restrictions in place within the Athletic Dept. that inhibited development over the past 18 months. That lack of season to season development - or even in season development - has been a running critique on this board since last September regardless of the sport in question and leads me to believe there is something there. A third thing is I think we have been a little spoiled by the baseball teams progression over the years. Seemingly every year since 2011 the team started slow, and visually improved throughout the year. That is not normal. Just look at OM and how they always start with a bang, and then are a shell of themselves by the end of the season. Odds are that we would have a year where guys didn't make "steps" like we would like. I point to 2019 and the way our pitchers seemed to progress very well under some coach named Foxhall that season - where this board was over the moon with how our pitching progressed.

And yet, in spite of it all, we sit 2 wins away from a National Championship.

[MaroonFlounder]

All the criticisms aside, MSU pitching staff set a record for strikeouts in a season, not just at MSU, not SEC, nationally, like in college baseball history.

[Tbonewannabe]

That explains Cerentola. It doesn't explain regressions. Brandon Smith too, someone brought him up and I had forgotten. We have at least 4 guys who have regressed this year.

I believe he had some arm issue and they had to half way shut him down and he is just now working back. It was great to see his movement back but in April his pitches were just flat and lost a little mph.

[Commercecomet24]

I believe he had some arm issue and they had to half way shut him down and he is just now working back. It was great to see his movement back but in April his pitches were just flat and lost a little mph.

Elbow tendinitis and he's just now getting back to normal

[Ari Gold]

8-2 team record ( I think ) on Friday night SEC games.
Agree Mac has looked like garbage the last handful of starts
But we are 2 wins away from a natty and lead the nation in strikeouts as a staff

[SilentSteel16]

Miss State check that…. Alabama and Clemson football has spoiled everyone. People think just because we are good in a sport (baseball) and that we should win every game. Subconsciously they are wanting to be like UA or Clemson so bad that it carries over to our baseball team. We have a very talented baseball program. A program like that takes years and years to build. It is hard to build a program when you have 3 new coaches in a 5 year timeframe. Baseball is totally different from football, Bama can get the top tier football players year in and out and still win. In Baseball if you get all the top tier kids more times than not you won’t make the playoffs or if you do won’t go far, reference the Yankees. In Baseball it is a pure team sport you need kids that play together and you have to have the right players mentally to play baseball. Baseball is a very humbling game if you 3 hits out of every 10 at bats you are an all star. 4 hits a hall of famer. Baseball is a very humbling game, pitchers are even more so fickle. Short memories, short memories. You have to have it a baseball player AND WE NEED IT AS A FAN BASE.

[SilentSteel16]

Today is a new day, we have a great team and great coaching staff. Let’s relish in the fact that only 2 fan bases are still able to cheer on their team. These kids got us here let’s be appreciative and enjoy the ride. For what it is worth I DO think we are a better overall team than Vandy. They had a leg up with the covid thing and scholarships, SO WHAT. Go out and win the day. Short memory. Short memory. You have to have it in baseball. Live for today with this team. Quit shooting holes in a great year and just put this in your pipe ……. WHEN LEMO WINS TODAY, he will be the MOST SUCCESSFUL COACH AT Miss State EVER …..

[Catfish]

Today is a new day, we have a great team and great coaching staff. Let’s relish in the fact that only 2 fan bases are still able to cheer on their team. These kids got us here let’s be appreciative and enjoy the ride. For what it is worth I DO think we are a better overall team than Vandy. They had a leg up with the covid thing and scholarships, SO WHAT. Go out and win the day. Short memory. Short memory. You have to have it in baseball. Live for today with this team. Quit shooting holes in a great year and just put this in your pipe ……. WHEN LEMO WINS TODAY, he will be the MOST SUCCESSFUL COACH AT Miss State EVER …..

Hail State!

[Commercecomet24]

Miss State check that?. Alabama and Clemson football has spoiled everyone. People think just because we are good in a sport (baseball) and that we should win every game. Subconsciously they are wanting to be like UA or Clemson so bad that it carries over to our baseball team. We have a very talented baseball program. A program like that takes years and years to build. It is hard to build a program when you have 3 new coaches in a 5 year timeframe. Baseball is totally different from football, Bama can get the top tier football players year in and out and still win. In Baseball if you get all the top tier kids more times than not you won?t make the playoffs or if you do won?t go far, reference the Yankees. In Baseball it is a pure team sport you need kids that play together and you have to have the right players mentally to play baseball. Baseball is a very humbling game if you 3 hits out of every 10 at bats you are an all star. 4 hits a hall of famer. Baseball is a very humbling game, pitchers are even more so fickle. Short memories, short memories. You have to have it a baseball player AND WE NEED IT AS A FAN BASE.

I've discussed this very same thing with several other baseball guys on the board. To many people take a football mentality into a sport like baseball and the sports
are polar opposites. You can make all the "right" moves in a baseball game and still not win. I've made decisions in game and looked like a genius made the exact same moves in another game and has it blow up. Hindsight from arm chair coaches in baseball is a sport unto itself lol! It's a new day today and we need to get this one tonight no matter what it takes! HAILSTATE!

[Turfdawg67]

I've discussed this very same thing with several other baseball guys on the board. To many people take a football mentality into a sport like baseball and the sports
are polar opposites. You can make all the "right" moves in a baseball game and still not win. I've made decisions in game and looked like a genius made the exact same moves in another game and has it blow up. Hindsight from arm chair coaches in baseball is a sport unto itself lol! It's a new day today and we need to get this one tonight no matter what it takes! HAILSTATE!

Always enjoy your comments and respect your replies... but c'mon! We have the players, the facilities, the coaches... we should already be Natl Champs at least once! WTF! LSU has 5-6, SC has a couple, UF has at least 2... hell, Coastal Carolina has one (recently!). Let's win one already!!

[Commercecomet24]

Always enjoy your comments and respect your replies... but c'mon! We have the players, the facilities, the coaches... we should already be Natl Champs at least once! WTF! LSU has 5-6, SC has a couple, UF has at least 2... hell, Coastal Carolina has one (recently!). Let's win one already!!

Man I want it as bad as you do, but the comments I'm making are regarding this coaching staff and this year. Baseballs is not like football or basketball. In baseball the little guy can win a natty(see your coastal reference), not possible in college football or basketball. Different animals

[Turfdawg67]

Man I want it as bad as you do, but the comments I'm making are regarding this coaching staff and this year. Baseballs is not like football or basketball. In baseball the little guy can win a natty(see your coastal reference), not possible in college football or basketball. Different animals

Gotcha! All on the same page!

[Commercecomet24]

Gotcha! All on the same page!

Yes sir! You're a good guy, always enjoy your comments. Man I want my Dawgs to get an NC in my lifetime so bad and my clock is ticking. Not a teenager anymore!

[sandwolf]

We are Fixen to break the NCAA record for strike outs in a season, with mostly freshman? We are two games fro
Winning a national title. We have a fresh Sims and Bednar on short rest to gm2 and gm3.

I think he has done a great job.

LOL, this thread is amazing. Our pitching staff has struck out more batters than any other team in history and is the primary reason that we are playing in the final game of the national championship series, and we've got some expert on here that goes by Cooterpoot calling for our pitching coach to be fired. You can't make this stuff up.

[Homedawg]

LOL, this thread is amazing. Our pitching staff has struck out more batters than any other team in history and is the primary reason that we are playing in the final game of the national championship series, and we've got some expert on here that goes by Cooterpoot calling for our pitching coach to be fired. You can't make this stuff up.
Too add , we have the fewest k's by an offense by a long shot o teams still playing. And he says he sucks too.

[Commercecomet24]

Too add , we have the fewest k's by an offense by a long shot o teams still playing. And he says he sucks too.

And both of those things are the reason we're here and that's the direct result of our coaching.