Why has the media changed the last 5 years?

[Coach34]

5 years ago:

Media say- "Crooms needs time"...."No coach can win at Mississippi State consistently"


Today:

Media say- "Mullen needs to go"...."Mullen can't beat top 20 teams"..."State is accepting mediocrity"

[DownwardDawg]

You probably shouldn't have asked this question. You already know the answer, and this is not gonna look good for our fanbase.

[War Machine Dawg]

You know why. But our insecure chicken little fans hang on the media's every word and now perception is reality. Why did I have to be raised a State fan?

[The Croom Diaries]

Croom was the greatest coach ever. There's no denying that. The ninja just had an irrational fear of walruses.

[MadDawg]

Because the Bears sucked for most of the Croom era.

[engie]

5 years ago:

Media say- "Crooms needs time"...."No coach can win at Mississippi State consistently"


Today:

Media say- "Mullen needs to go"...."Mullen can't beat top 20 teams"..."State is accepting mediocrity"

Because most of Croom's reality at MSU was very different than most of Mullen's reality. It's not the same place it was in 2004. The rising tide of the SEC has lifted all boats.

[I'minHailState]

Objection.
Leading the witnesses your honor

[The Croom Diaries]

You know why. But our insecure chicken little fans hang on the media's every word and now perception is reality. Why did I have to be raised a State fan?

There seems to be a distain for the media/national bloggers when they say stuff like Mullen is on the hot seat. But really, aren't they giving MSU more respect than a lot of our fans are?

Here's why: they are viewing State through the lens of an SEC program. What they see wouldn't cut it at any school except Vandy and maybe OM. They see the poor records vs. ranked opp. etc. Basically if we dont fire Mullen for a losing record (if it happens) we'd prove to the SEC that we "know our place" in the SEC - at the bottom accepting mediocrity.

The reason Croom was liked was because he had the beautiful skin pigmentation.

[jimbo352]

5 years ago:

Media say- "Crooms needs time"...."No coach can win at Mississippi State consistently"


Today:

Media say- "Mullen needs to go"...."Mullen can't beat top 20 teams"..."State is accepting mediocrity"

Two things IMO....

1) Mullen promised big things, and early on he produced big results that excited us. The end of last season was a gut check for the fanbase, and we haven't been able to get the wour taste our of our mouths... It's not just the media covering us either... This is college football across the country these days.

2) I also think seeing teams like Utah/Boise st/Louisville/USF/West Virginia/Baylor have success, makes everyone(including me to a certain extent) expect better things out of our program. None of those teams have an SEC schedule obviously, but seeing it and hearing every day doesn't help...

[Bo Darville]

Mullen is being judged on his qualifications and ability. Being an arrogant and cocky yankee, he will not get the benefit of the doubt from the media or the opposition. His cockiness also heightened expectations. This was confirmed after an 8-4 second season and destruction of Michigan in the Gator Bowl. Since then he has flatlined or regressed. Freeze being the current golden child does not help.

Croom was judged more by skin color than qualifications and ability. He talked about building a foundation, lack of talent, etc. That tempered expectations and made it seem like he was building from scratch. Orgeron was also looking like a buffoon which helped. The media and the opposition were careful to criticize in fear of being called a racist.

Like it or not, Croom and Mullen are not being judged on the same criteria. It is not their fault, but it is fact.

[Ronny]

..are you talking about?

I remember a media that constantly hammered Croom & we have a media today that coddles Mullen at every turn.

I think you are defining messageboards as the media.

Messageboards are not the media.

[Ronny]

Mullen is being judged on his qualifications and ability. Being an arrogant and cocky yankee, he will not get the benefit of the doubt from the media or the opposition. His cockiness also heightened expectations. This was confirmed after an 8-4 second season and destruction of Michigan in the Gator Bowl. Since then he has flatlined or regressed. Freeze being the current golden child does not help.

Croom was judged more by skin color than qualifications and ability. He talked about building a foundation, lack of talent, etc. That tempered expectations and made it seem like he was building from scratch. Orgeron was also looking like a buffoon which helped. The media and the opposition were careful to criticize in fear of being called a racist.

Like it or not, Croom and Mullen are not being judged on the same criteria. It is not their fault, but it is fact.

...tell me you don't attend MSU or are a graduate from MSU.

Because this is some of the most ignorant tripe I've ever read here.

[The Croom Diaries]

I assume this thread is about national media because NO ONE in the MSU media has said a harsh word about Mullen.

Also Engie raises a valid point - our athletic budget is double what it was under Crron because of being in the SEC. People want to credit Mullen for all our news digs, no thank the SEC. Mullen has just taken all the advances from the SEC and managed to not screw up by beating non-conference teams, UK and OM.

[MadDawg]

Fixed it for you......


2) I also think seeing teams like the Bears have success, makes everyone(including me to a certain extent) expect better things out of our program.

[sandwolf]

5 years ago:

Media say- "Crooms needs time"...."No coach can win at Mississippi State consistently"


Today:

Media say- "Mullen needs to go"...."Mullen can't beat top 20 teams"..."State is accepting mediocrity"

I have seen the media speculate about Mullen being on the hot seat and point out that he hasn't beaten a top 20 team, but I have never seen anyone say that he needs to go......seems like I usually see them say something about him being on the hot seat and then they say it would be a big mistake for us to fire him. Am I just out of the loop on this?

[maroonmania]

Fixed it for you......

You could probably add Vandy in there with the Bears as well. When you see programs with no more advantages than you start elevating and actually beating some good teams and we either can't or don't it frustrates a fanbase.

[Sam&DeansDawg]

Croom was by far the coach that could change everything.

But that's the past...

Muschamp = SOON

[maroonmania]

There seems to be a distain for the media/national bloggers when they say stuff like Mullen is on the hot seat. But really, aren't they giving MSU more respect than a lot of our fans are?

Here's why: they are viewing State through the lens of an SEC program. What they see wouldn't cut it at any school except Vandy and maybe OM. They see the poor records vs. ranked opp. etc. Basically if we dont fire Mullen for a losing record (if it happens) we'd prove to the SEC that we "know our place" in the SEC - at the bottom accepting mediocrity.

The reason Croom was liked was because he had the beautiful skin pigmentation.

Also, to the outside world, Croom followed the Dark Prince (ie JWS) and supposedly inherited a program in shambles that was facing probation so every excuse in the book was ready and waiting to excuse Croom when he produced lackluster results.

[jimbo352]

You could probably add Vandy in there with the Bears as well. When you see programs with no more advantages than you start elevating and actually beating some good teams and we either can't or don't it frustrates a fanbase.


I don't really count TSUN... Every fanbase gets frustrated when their rival has any kind of success... It's just the nature of rivalries... The Nuttster was on the hot seat after 2 straight 9-4 seasons... Yes, they had a bad year in 2010, but it was OUR success that really made that seat hot. Had we been 4-8/5-7, Nutt would have been pretty safe...

I agree about Vandy though... It's all about finding the right fit at the HC position... Maybe that's Mullen, and he does need a little more time... I don't know, but we'll know by next year...

[basedog]

Funny how our own fans have marked Mullen as being a failure. I just don't get it, also I read where everyone says Mullen sucks in recruiting, don't get that either, looks to me as if we have some really talented Freshmen, Soph and Juniors.

On paper means nothing but hype.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

Lock this post down!!!! We're beating a dead horse!!!

[The Croom Diaries]

Funny how our own fans have marked Mullen as being a failure. I just don't get it, also I read where everyone says Mullen sucks in recruiting, don't get that either, looks to me as if we have some really talented Freshmen, Soph and Juniors.

On paper means nothing but hype.

Some see MSU as only being able to achieve the minimum: 6-8 wins per year. Others see State as being able to achieve more: 7-10 wins per year. Others even more: 8-12 wins per year. Each person's job critique of Mullen is largely defined by which of those groups their view of State falls in to.

[dawgs]

5 years ago:

Media say- "Crooms needs time"...."No coach can win at Mississippi State consistently"


Today:

Media say- "Mullen needs to go"...."Mullen can't beat top 20 teams"..."State is accepting mediocrity"

5 years ago? bullshit, in 2008 everyone wanted croom gone. there wasn't a media outlet i can remember bad mouthing us for parting ways with croom. you'd have been better off trolling by saying 8 years ago.

[basedog]

You are correct Croom Diaries, but to label Mullen as a failure and poor recruiter is way out of bounds.

The SEC west division is by for the toughest league in the country. Having a winning season is a good thing in this league.

[Coach34]

Funny how our own fans have marked Mullen as being a failure. I just don't get it, also I read where everyone says Mullen sucks in recruiting, don't get that either, looks to me as if we have some really talented Freshmen, Soph and Juniors.

On paper means nothing but hype.

People will say our recruiting under Mullen is terrible- Then people will say we are as talented as A&M- who has been ranked highly in recruiting and is constantly producing NFL draft picks

People need to make up their mind

[dawgs]

People will say our recruiting under Mullen is terrible- Then people will say we are as talented as A&M- who has been ranked highly in recruiting and is constantly producing NFL draft picks

People need to make up their mind

are the same people saying it, or are you reading some posters saying we need to recruit better and other posters saying we are just as talented as team ____ with higher recruiting classes, but for the purposes of the board and your argument combining them into 1 entity?

[dawgs]

fwiw, i don't think we have recruited that badly the last couple of years. but i also kinda view recruiting in tiers, not getting obsessed in exact rankings. usually there's 1-3 teams at the top ahead of everyone else, then you have another break in the 10-12 range, then you have about 20-25 teams pretty close after that. we have been in that 20-25 team tier after the top 10 or so. if we could just land 1 or 2 "game changers" (for lack of a better term), then it'd make a world of difference. we aren't gonna sign the #2 player in the country every year, and overall our talent is rising, but we are a couple of game changing players away from being on a a&m type level (say jff and mike evans). we need to find those couple of guys to put us over the top. yes, stars aren't everything, but the teams that sign more of them tend to also be better on a more consistent basis than the teams that don't sign them. not a coincidence.

so in a way, we aren't far off talent wise from a&m on the offensive side of the ball so it seems like we are thisclose, but on the other hand, we don't have a single player in the same ballpark as jff and mike evans. and therein lies the difference and what mullen needs to do better.

[maroonmania]

People will say our recruiting under Mullen is terrible- Then people will say we are as talented as A&M- who has been ranked highly in recruiting and is constantly producing NFL draft picks

People need to make up their mind

Well, some of it makes sense in that our 2010 and 2011 classes were terrible by SEC standards. Doesn't mean we didn't get some guys in those classes but we didn't get nearly enough of them. 2012 and 2013 were significantly better and may explain why people are saying we are as talented a team X. The problem is a lot of the talent is young and we still have a lot of less talented upperclassmen taking up a good bit of the playing time. And it was you who alerted us to not be surprised if fall back to 2010/2011 levels due to our backers going to "hands off" mode. Like I said, that scares me more about keeping Mullen than anything I've seen on the field. If we can't get our reasonable share of recruits we simply can't compete in this league. And nobody else in the SEC is being "hands off", that much is for sure.

[AROB44]

You know why. But our insecure chicken little fans hang on the media's every word and now perception is reality. Why did I have to be raised a State fan?


I have asked myself that exact question countless times over the years. I just hope when I come back in my next life that I am NOT a MSU fan. Of course, I hope I don't come back in Bangladesh or some other hell hole (Middle East, e.g.).

[slickdawg]

People need to go back and look at Croom's signing classes.

http://mississippistate.scout.com/a.z?s=136&p=9&c=14&yr=2005

[The Croom Diaries]

I think the reason most feel like Mullen isn't a good recruiter is because we don't win any battles. Sure we can beat out USM or La Tech, but most of our signing classes are filled with guys who don't have other SEC offers outside of OM. We are good at scouting, maybe not so much at recruiting. Mullen's done a fair job across the board with everything at State. The question is just is that acceptable for you or if you think he can do better are you willing to continue waiting?

[engie]

I think the reason most feel like Mullen isn't a good recruiter is because we don't win any battles. Sure we can beat out USM or La Tech, but most of our signing classes are filled with guys who don't have other SEC offers outside of OM. We are good at scouting, maybe not so much at recruiting. Mullen's done a fair job across the board with everything at State. The question is just is that acceptable for you or if you think he can do better are you willing to continue waiting?

Exactly...

Losing all the late head-to-head battles is what sets the perception on Mullen. Always a bridesmaid, never a bride.

[Coach34]

..are you talking about?

I remember a media that constantly hammered Croom & we have a media today that coddles Mullen at every turn.

I think you are defining messageboards as the media.

Messageboards are not the media.


Not at all- before the Egg Bowl beatdown- Crooms still had people defending him and saying those things. Ronny you were the one that came out and said the media would be all over us if we fired Crooms. Then the Egg Bowl beatdown happened, and all the defenders scattered.

It hasnt been that way with Mullen. The media has been all over his ass to discredit him at every turn for 3 years now. Remember how Mullen hadnt beaten anybody but OM in the SEC West 2 years ago? That wasnt just message board people- that was coming out in articles.

I just find it interesting that Southern media wanted us to continue to keep Crooms, but has been on us about Mullen for awhile now.

[Schultzy]

Exactly...

Losing all the late head-to-head battles is what sets the perception on Mullen. Always a bridesmaid, never a bride.

Except for Chris Jones and Shumpert to start.

[engie]

Except for Chris Jones and Shumpert to start.

UH -- they were both longterm MSU commits that we simply held onto.

Very different than the following(JUST from the class of 2013):
Jalen Ramsey
MacKensie Alexander
Mackenro Alexander
Toby Johnson
Za'Darius Smith
Elijah Daniel
Corey Smith
Jonathon Rumph
Carroll Washington
Tommy Sanders
Zack Greenlee
John O'Korn
Steven Bench
Josh Dobbs
Jaquay Williams
Nate Willis
Javess Blue

We were top 2-3 for all of these guys that were borderline elite national recruits... Land just a couple of them -- and our class takes an entirely different complexion. This is the story every year with Mullen other than 2012 -- when we cleaned up in MS with OM as a dumpster fire...

[The Croom Diaries]

Except for Chris Jones and Shumpert to start.

We should be splitting recruits 50/50 with OM at least and then picking some others off here and there as well to say Mullen and this staff are good recruiters. Recruiting is not really the problem preventing us from getting over the current hump in that's in front of us now, it's coaching.

[Schultzy]

We should be splitting recruits 50/50 with OM at least and then picking some others off here and there as well to say Mullen and this staff are good recruiters. Recruiting is not really the problem preventing us from getting over the current hump in that's in front of us now, it's coaching.

Looking at the dandy dozen, we have and are pretty much splitting the state 50/50.

[Barking 13]

We should be splitting recruits 50/50 with OM at least and then picking some others off here and there as well to say Mullen and this staff are good recruiters. Recruiting is not really the problem preventing us from getting over the current hump in that's in front of us now, it's coaching.

This guy gets it.... I don't look at stars.... how many 5*'s have gone to OM and other places and are no longer on the team?

[bluelightstar]

The only people who don't look at stars tend to not have many.

[Barking 13]

The only people who don't look at stars tend to not have many.

It's just some "journalist's" opinion....

[Bo Darville]

Not at all- before the Egg Bowl beatdown- Crooms still had people defending him and saying those things. Ronny you were the one that came out and said the media would be all over us if we fired Crooms. Then the Egg Bowl beatdown happened, and all the defenders scattered.

It hasnt been that way with Mullen. The media has been all over his ass to discredit him at every turn for 3 years now. Remember how Mullen hadnt beaten anybody but OM in the SEC West 2 years ago? That wasnt just message board people- that was coming out in articles.

I just find it interesting that Southern media wanted us to continue to keep Crooms, but has been on us about Mullen for awhile now.


Agreed. To here the media tell it, Croom was building a dynasty. All of Mullen's success is due to Croom. I watched the special on ESPN. You would have thought Croom was the greatest coach in the history of college football. He took a program that hadn't won a game in 14 years, had no facilities, players were horrible, runningback had one leg, defensive tackle weighed 135. When Croom turned it over to Mullen we were guaranteed to win a national championship every year. He was the second coming of Jesus Christ. Seriously, has anyone ever seen such a documentary about the great success of a coach that had 1 winning season in 5 years? Name me one more coach. Name one.

[bluelightstar]

Is it really shocking that the media might have thought it would be a good story for the SEC's first black coach to find success at a school in Mississippi? People wanted that to be the narrative (and if it had worked out, that would have been AWESOME for State).

Now, Mullen's problem is that he's easy to write about and dismiss because he's never going to win a game that he shouldn't and so people know exactly what to say and he won't prove them wrong.

[ckDOG]

Was there a lot of defense of Croom? I don't recall much of it. The facts pretty well supported he was a crappy coach. The only defense of him I remember really came from outside of the fans base in a "well, what do you expect, it's MSU" condescending tone.

[I'minHailState]

It's just some "journalist's" opinion....
So you'd be ok with a team made of 2 and 3 stars instead of 4 and 5 stars? How has that worked out for us?

[17thebearz]

OM was down is the only difference

[dawgs]

It's just some "journalist's" opinion....

then why do the teams that sign the most stars on a regular basis also seem to be among the better teams in the country on a consistent basis?

[dawgs]

Was there a lot of defense of Croom? I don't recall much of it. The facts pretty well supported he was a crappy coach. The only defense of him I remember really came from outside of the fans base in a "well, what do you expect, it's MSU" condescending tone.

neither do i. not in 2008. sure in 2005 there were people preaching to give him time. but not in 2008. anyone want to dig up on articles of the media blasting us for parting ways with croom after the 2008 season? there should be plenty of them easy to find since apparently everyone in the national media though we should give him more time.

[Coach34]

It was still there in 2008 by the media until the Egg Bowl happened. Before the Egg Bowl, there was alot if doubt that he would even be fired. That's when all the comments came out about not firing a coach that had us in a bowl game last year as well as the "you can't win at State consistently" comments.

The Egg Bowl blowout shut everyone up

And thus my question- Mullen hasn't gotten any if that love or patience from the media- it's just been constant criticism since 2011.

[tcdog70]

In Dan's first year, a Coach who isn't now on the staff said Dan is an awful closer. His Yankee demeanor doesn't translate into MS. homes. Even Urban has been quoted as saying Dan could lose a recruit. The recruits that Dan can relate to are very few. But I will Give Him credit as being a pretty good talent evaluater, He has found some diamonds in the rough.

[dawgs]

It was still there in 2008 by the media until the Egg Bowl happened. Before the Egg Bowl, there was alot if doubt that he would even be fired. That's when all the comments came out about not firing a coach that had us in a bowl game last year as well as the "you can't win at State consistently" comments.

The Egg Bowl blowout shut everyone up

And thus my question- Mullen hasn't gotten any if that love or patience from the media- it's just been constant criticism since 2011.

the only MSU football season i've been in MS for was 2008, so i was more in tune with what was happening that year than any other in the past decade, and i don't remember anyone giving croom the benefit of the doubt once it became apparent we were awful, which was either right after 3-2 or the following week when GT beat our ass. i feel like you are trying to create some kinda racial angle out of thin air. sure people wanted him to succeed for a myriad of reasons, but about halfway through 2008 there wasn't anyone that could defend his on field results and i don't remember many/any trying.

[Coach34]

Wow are you off base

I'm not going for a racial angle in any way, shape, or form

My angle is a "keep Miss State in it place" one

[engie]

In Dan's first year, a Coach who isn't now on the staff said Dan is an awful closer. His Yankee demeanor doesn't translate into MS. homes. Even Urban has been quoted as saying Dan could lose a recruit. The recruits that Dan can relate to are very few. But I will Give Him credit as being a pretty good talent evaluater, He has found some diamonds in the rough.

Couldn't agree more

You can read in Urban's book where Dan almost cost them Tebow in recruiting. Urban had to fix that one personally.... Of course, Tebow grew to love Dan -- but had Urban not been a tremendous recruiter himself, he would have likely never gotten that chance...

[ED_Walk_On]

What media has said that Mullen needs to go? I haven't seen that anywhere except message boards