Sims or Kopps?

[chef dixon]

Not that we are biased or anything but anyone watch Kopps enough to legitimately pick him?

[basedog]

Me, but I am very happy and pleased with Sims. Kopp has one pitch and has been electric, he is the best pitcher in the country. Again I love Sims!

[msstate7]

Kopps, not bc of ability though... bc of availability. He's pitched almost 20 more innings than Sims. That's huge... we might have another sec win or 2 if Sims had the same IP

[ShotgunDawg]

Kopps, not bc of ability though... bc of availability. He's pitched almost 20 more innings than Sims. That's huge... we might have another sec win or 2 if Sims had the same IP

This

[basedog]

Kopps, not bc of ability though... bc of availability. He's pitched almost 20 more innings than Sims. That's huge... we might have another sec win or 2 if Sims had the same IP

I agree, Sims has another pitch as Kopps has that cutter which is electric.

[msstate7]

This

So where are these 2 dynamic relievers expected to be drafted? Seems relievers are a dime a dozen in mlb these days

[ShotgunDawg]

So where are these 2 dynamic relievers expected to be drafted? Seems relievers are a dime a dozen in mlb these days

Kopps will go in the 4th/5th round as a SR money saver that will get $20K & Sims will start on Friday night for MSU next year & be a top half of the 1st round guy if he can maintain being a starter. He's basically Gunner Hoglund but throws harder & has better fastball quality.

If Sims can't start, he'll be a late 2nd to 3rd round pick as a reliever

[basedog]

Kopps will go in the 4th/5th round as a SR money saver that will get $20K & Sims will start on Friday night for MSU next year & be a top half of the 1st round guy if he can maintain being a starter. He's basically Gunner Hoglund but throws harder & has better fastball quality.

If Sims can't start, he'll be a late 2nd to 3rd round pick as a reliever

Where are you seeing he will be a starter next year? Is that what you have heard? Hey I have no problem him being a starter, just asking? Not many closers in the country are like Sims.

[msstate7]

Kopps will go in the 4th/5th round as a SR money saver that will get $20K & Sims will start on Friday night for MSU next year & be a top half of the 1st round guy if he can maintain being a starter. He's basically Gunner Hoglund but throws harder & has better fastball quality.

If we're gonna stretch him out next year, why won't we use him more innings on a weekend? I assume we will in postseason, but that seems risky when we haven't really tried him

[StarkVegasSteve]

So where are these 2 dynamic relievers expected to be drafted? Seems relievers are a dime a dozen in mlb these days

Relievers might be a dime a dozen, but Landon Sims' don't grow on trees. His stuff is electric and the way he attacks hitters is something you don't see often at any level of baseball. He's not dancing around the zone trying to beat you with a curve or trying to backdoor pitches. It's Chapman-esque the way he approaches it.

[ShotgunDawg]

Where are you seeing he will be a starter next year? Is that what you have heard? Hey I have no problem him being a starter, just asking? Not many closers in the country are like Sims.

It's common sense. We've got to try & start him next year or you'll just be giving other programs ammunition to recruit against you. Sims was the 48th ranked HS player in the country out of HS. You can't recruit that type of player & never give him the opportunity to try to start. Starting vs relieving is generally at least a two round swing in the draft, so you're not doing right by Sims unless you give him a shot to start.

If he's able to start, to me, he's immediately Jack Leiter with a better breaking ball. He's stronger than Jack & throws just as hard with a little better fastball command.

[ShotgunDawg]

If we're gonna stretch him out next year, why won't we use him more innings on a weekend? I assume we will in postseason, but that seems risky when we haven't really tried him

I can't answer that. He should be used more now

[Really Clark?]

Relievers might be a dime a dozen, but Landon Sims' don't grow on trees. His stuff is electric and the way he attacks hitters is something you don't see often at any level of baseball. He's not dancing around the zone trying to beat you with a curve or trying to backdoor pitches. It's Chapman-esque the way he approaches it.

He back and front doors his slider all the time. He is still attacking bringing it back into the zone for a strike but he does front and back door that pitch.

[ShotgunDawg]

He back and front doors his slider all the time.

Yeah. Like a starter

[msstate7]

Relievers might be a dime a dozen, but Landon Sims' don't grow on trees. His stuff is electric and the way he attacks hitters is something you don't see often at any level of baseball. He's not dancing around the zone trying to beat you with a curve or trying to backdoor pitches. It's Chapman-esque the way he approaches it.

He's great. If he's a reliever though, I have a hard time seeing 1st round.

[StarkVegasSteve]

He's great. If he's a reliever though, I have a hard time seeing 1st round.

Oh I agree 100%. If he strictly stays a reliever then he'll be 2nd round at best. I'd just hate for him to change the way he pitches if we move him to a starter.

[ShotgunDawg]

He's great. If he's a reliever though, I have a hard time seeing 1st round.

No shot of being a 1st rounder if he's a reliever. Late 2nd or 3rd. Front offices have gotten smarter over the years & realize the lack of value of relievers.

For example: Josh Hader has basically been the best reliever in MLB for the last 4 years. His career WAR is only 8.2

[ShotgunDawg]

Oh I agree 100%. If he strictly stays a reliever then he'll be 2nd round at best. I'd just hate for him to change the way he pitches if we move him to a starter.

I don't think he has to change. He commands his fastball & breaking balls well. He may have to lower the intent a little & save some bullets, meaning he may sit 93-95 & then reach back for 97 at times, but he won't have to change much. He should dominate. I see nothing about him, other than the intent he pitches with, that tells me he can't start.

If we get to Omaha, he's going to be incredible. If we stay in the winner bracket, he'll be able to throw in most games

[basedog]

It's common sense. We've got to try & start him next year or you'll just be giving other programs ammunition to recruit against you. Sims was the 48th ranked HS player in the country out of HS. You can't recruit that type of player & never give him the opportunity to try to start. Starting vs relieving is generally at least a two round swing in the draft, so you're not doing right by Sims unless you give him a shot to start.

If he's able to start, to me, he's immediately Jack Leiter with a better breaking ball. He's stronger than Jack & throws just as hard with a little better fastball command.

Makes sense, it will or might be interesting to see how this may or may not play out. I think we will see him more in regional play, maybe Sec tourney if we can make some noise moving forward.

Sec tourney is gonna be the most competitive in a long long time. So many teams playing for slots, no regional will be as competitive as this years Sec tourney.

[KOdawg1]

I'm all for Sims being a starter next year.

However, and I may be off on this, he seems like a max effort kind of pitcher, so would he have to change his mechanics or drop a few ticks on his fastball so he can go deeper in games? He works very aggressively, and I'm not sure how that would hold up over 6 innings.

[ShotgunDawg]

Makes sense, it will or might be interesting to see how this may or may not play out. I think we will see him more in regional play, maybe Sec tourney if we can make some noise moving forward.

Sec tourney is gonna be the most competitive in a long long time. So many teams playing for slots, no regional will be as competitive as this years Sec tourney.

I'd use him twice this weekend & then only pitch him once in Hoover so that he's ready to pitch twice in the regionals

[ShotgunDawg]

I'm all for Sims being a starter next year.

However, and I may be off on this, he seems like a max effort kind of pitcher, so would he have to change his mechanics or drop a few ticks on his fastball so he can go deeper in games? He works very aggressively, and I'm not sure how that would hold up over 6 innings.

People said the same thing about Max Scherzer in college & it's why he went 11th overall rather than being a top 5 pick. The difficulty is separating "effort" from "intent/intensity" They can look the same but be very different.

IMO, effort is when a guy has poor mechanics or a slow arm but still throws hard. However, Sims' delivery is athletic & doesn't put much strain on his arm.

[Really Clark?]

People said the same thing about Max Scherzer in college & it's why he went 11th overall rather than being a top 5 pick. The difficulty is separating "effort" from "intent/intensity" They can look the same but be very different.

IMO, effort is when a guy has poor mechanics or a slow arm but still throws hard. However, Sims' delivery is athletic & doesn't put much strain on his arm.

Kind of disagree that effort guys could have poor mechanics or a slow arm, they are many out there for sure but you also have undersized guys with great mechanics and a fast arm to generate high speeds but they have to max effort because of their size. Not saying this about Sims at all.

[PMDawg]

I think they are much the "same" pitcher. The real difference is how each staff has managed them. We're about to find out which staff did a better job.

Arkansas is not the #1 national seed if their staff didn't use Kopps the way they did though. Conversely, we have probably lost a few games we could have won had we followed their approach. So their staff has the edge right now IMO. Now, if Kopps becomes overextended in the postseason and starts to struggle, while Landon stays fresh throughout...maybe we had a better plan. However, if we lose our regional or super with Landon barely pitching, then we really screwed the pooch and wasted our best player.

[Captain Falcon]

Kopps has a better offense and defense behind him so that helps. He?s also older and more experienced. I think Sims has more electric stuff though.

I agree that the only real difference is in how they are used. Just have to hope we see Sims more often once we get to June.

[Commercecomet24]

Kopps, not bc of ability though... bc of availability. He's pitched almost 20 more innings than Sims. That's huge... we might have another sec win or 2 if Sims had the same IP

Yep 100%

[Cowbell]

Kopps, not bc of ability though... bc of availability. He's pitched almost 20 more innings than Sims. That's huge... we might have another sec win or 2 if Sims had the same IP
But I have had several "baseball experts" on here argue that we haven't hurt Sims draft status by using him so sparingly....

[Bothrops]

Kopps has a better offense and defense behind him so that helps. He?s also older and more experienced. I think Sims has more electric stuff though.

I agree that the only real difference is in how they are used. Just have to hope we see Sims more often once we get to June.

This sums up this thread nicely.

[Really Clark?]

But I have had several "baseball experts" on here argue that we haven't hurt Sims draft status by using him so sparingly....

You quoted a post that had nothing to do with the draft.

If he was drafted today, as a reliever, his draft stock would be as high as it could be. Our use or less use of him would absolutely no influence on his draft stock, as it stands today. Period.

[R2Dawg]

I haven't seen Kopps enough but I've seen enough of Sims to know he is maybe the badest pitcher in college baseball. His command of the zone is unreal. He will dance fastballs on all 4 corners but the inside upper corner fastball is just not fair. That one pitch is just lethal. I've seen no one do that in college baseball ever as good as he is at it. I feel sorry for the batters when he does it.

[Tbonewannabe]

Makes sense, it will or might be interesting to see how this may or may not play out. I think we will see him more in regional play, maybe Sec tourney if we can make some noise moving forward.

Sec tourney is gonna be the most competitive in a long long time. So many teams playing for slots, no regional will be as competitive as this years Sec tourney.

Hell, Omaha might not be as competitive as the SEC tourney.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I haven't seen Kopps enough but I've seen enough of Sims to know he is maybe the badest pitcher in college baseball. His command of the zone is unreal. He will dance fastballs on all 4 corners but the inside upper corner fastball is just not fair. That one pitch is just lethal. I've seen no one do that in college baseball ever as good as he is at it. I feel sorry for the batters when he does it.

What he did to Tate in the 9th was almost criminal. Those two high fastballs were just unfair. That kid didn't have a prayer.

[Commercecomet24]

I haven't seen Kopps enough but I've seen enough of Sims to know he is maybe the badest pitcher in college baseball. His command of the zone is unreal. He will dance fastballs on all 4 corners but the inside upper corner fastball is just not fair. That one pitch is just lethal. I've seen no one do that in college baseball ever as good as he is at it. I feel sorry for the batters when he does it.

Sims reminds me so much of Nolan Ryan. The way his fastball just explodes is so similar to Ryan.

[Cowbell]

You quoted a post that had nothing to do with the draft.

If he was drafted today, as a reliever, his draft stock would be as high as it could be. Our use or less use of him would absolutely no influence on his draft stock, as it stands today. Period.
See - I completely disagree with this. If he had more innings and or had started some games and gone 5+ innings, it is almost factual that he would be drafted higher (assuming he dominates consistently).

[Hot Rock]

I have seen people say this and I have no clue but starting games and going 5 or 6 innings is valued way more than a guy that shuts a team down for 6 outs. Going the lineup twice and still getting it done will get you drafted much higher.

[ShotgunDawg]

I have seen people say this and I have no clue but starting games and going 5 or 6 innings is valued way more than a guy that shuts a team down for 6 outs. Going the lineup twice and still getting it done will get you drafted much higher.

Correct.

The best reliever of all-time's career WAR - Mariano Rivera - 56.3

Non- HOFer Roger Clemens career WAR - 139.2

[Really Clark?]

See - I completely disagree with this. If he had more innings and or had started some games and gone 5+ innings, it is almost factual that he would be drafted higher (assuming he dominates consistently).

What part of reliever did you not understand? As a reliever, which is what he is today and what he entered the season as, his draft stock is as high as it could be. Regardless if we used him more as a reliever, his draft stock is already as high as it could be if the draft was held today. Your statement is NOT factual. Period. No discussion about something he is not, which is a starter as of today.

If he starts next year, that is a totally different discussion and very well could enhance his draft stock but we are talking facts not hypothetical what could be next year. And you want to start your elite closer for 5+ plus innings multiple times during a season as well as using him as a closer more innings???? Name all of the pitchers who do that

[Really Clark?]

I have seen people say this and I have no clue but starting games and going 5 or 6 innings is valued way more than a guy that shuts a team down for 6 outs. Going the lineup twice and still getting it done will get you drafted much higher.

Has anyone disagreed with that???? Nobody has in this thread

[Cowbell]

What part of reliever did you not understand? As a reliever, which is what he is today and what he entered the season as, his draft stock is as high as it could be. Regardless if we used him more as a reliever, his draft stock is already as high as it could be if the draft was held today. Your statement is NOT factual. Period. No discussion about something he is not, which is a starter as of today.

If he starts next year, that is a totally different discussion and very well could enhance his draft stock but we are talking facts not hypothetical what could be next year. And you want to start your elite closer for 5+ plus innings multiple times during a season as well as using him as a closer more innings???? Name all of the pitchers who do that

Dude, I respect you, so need no need to get your feathers ruffled. But you are telling me if we use Sims for five innings against a really good team in a super regional and he dominates it does not improve his draft stock? (I fully expect this to happen). It's not about him being a reliever or a starter full-time to me, it's more about him having the ability if needed or is he a once through the cycle type guy.

[Really Clark?]

Dude, I respect you, so need no need to get your feathers ruffled. But you are telling me if we use Sims for five innings against a really good team in a super regional and he dominates it does not improve his draft stock? (I fully expect this to happen). It's not about him being a reliever or a starter full-time to me, it's more about him having the ability if needed or is he a once through the cycle type guy.

I apologize for being so short.

I would be absolutely shocked if we try to take our best shut down reliever and convert him into a starter after the end of the regular season. Can you tell me how many teams have done so recently? I have said previously that he is more than just a closer, he can give you multiple innings but there is no way you try to stretch him for more than 5 innings as a starter this late in the year. No way, way too much risk. Bringing a starter back on short rest for 1 inning is much much easier than trying to get 6-7 innings from a guy who hasn’t gone past 3 innings since the end of March. You can’t risk his health at this point for that. As an opener for 3 innings in a do or die game if his PC is low from a day or two before, that’s doable but it’s not being a starter and scouts won’t really change their opinion much on a one off deal like that.

But again you are talking a hypothetical and that was NOT what has been discussed. It was always centered that not using him more as a RELIEVER has hurt his draft stock. And that is absolutely false.

[Todd4State]

I'd use him twice this weekend & then only pitch him once in Hoover so that he's ready to pitch twice in the regionals

I'd use Sims as an opener on Saturday. It will just be one more thing that he can show scouts that he can do to increase his stock. And then bring in Harding after that.

[CadaverDawg]

One of the few times I've watched Kopps live tonight.....that dude is good. Florida hitters swinging at every damn thing though, which made him look even better.

[State82]

One of the few times I've watched Kopps live tonight.....that dude is good. Florida hitters swinging at every damn thing though, which made him look even better.
Yeah, me too. Sims is our guy but if I have to get three outs to close a championship game and I get to pick between a fresh Sims or a fresh Kopps out of the pen I have to give the ball to Kopps.