Strickland or Mullen?

[Thick]

I actually think Stricklin is more of a global problem to the athletic department. He has absolutely hurt our ability to recruit in basketball and football, and allowed Bracky to throw players and alums under the bus instead of protecting the program at all costs. Also, if we got rid of Stricklin it would also help with our chances of landing Hud in the future.

Thoughts or concerns?

[Raytoraid83]

This^

[C222]

I actually think Strickland is more of a global problem to the athletic department. He has absolutely hurt our ability to recruit in basketball and football, and allowed Bracky to throw players and alums under the bus instead of protecting the program at all costs. Also, if we got rid of Strickland it would also help with our chances of landing Hud in the future.

Thoughts or concerns?

How has Scott hurt our ability to recruit in basketball? Not disagreeing. Just curious.

[MadDawg]

How has Scott hurt our ability to recruit in basketball? Not disagreeing. Just curious.

He hired Ray.

[DownwardDawg]

Strick is holding us back.

[Thick]

He alienated the basketball boosters by hiring Ray. He also pissed them off by the way he handled the Stands dismissal/retirement. Behind closed doors, he is anti-AAU. I am not anti Ray, but there were other options available that were better fits in terms of recruiting and coaching. Strickland represents MSU well, but he is totally misguided in the way things are done by everyone in the recruiting arena. I personally, have a very hard time understanding, much less justifying what our compliance department did to Will Redmond. I also think that our athletic department is the definition of PUSSIFICATION. They allow our own media outlets to throw MSU under the bus, and that starts with the AD. What's wrong with showing some muscle, and banning some of these asshat reporters, bloggers, etc.

[JeanPeesSittingDown]

I think Strickland is holding Mullen back.

With a GOOD AD we could be contending for the west in a year or two.

[C222]

He alienated the basketball boosters by hiring Ray. He also pissed them off by the way he handled the Stands dismissal/retirement. Behind closed doors, he is anti-AAU. I am not anti Ray, but there were other options available that were better fits in terms of recruiting and coaching. Strickland represents MSU well, but he is totally misguided in the way things are done by everyone in the recruiting arena. I personally, have a very hard time understanding, much less justifying what our compliance department did to Will Redmond. I also think that our athletic department is the definition of PUSSIFICATION. They allow our own media outlets to throw MSU under the bus, and that starts with the AD. What's wrong with showing some muscle, and banning some of these asshat reporters, bloggers, etc.

Who else did some booster wants besides Kenny Payne?

[Political Hack]

throwing a random alumni or two under the bus isn't an issue. it happens and has been handled about the only way it could IMO. However, throwing a freshman who bleeds maroon to the wolves totally unprepared is unacceptable.

I hope this doesn't end up being a compliance thread. we've beaten the issue to death, but I do think overall topic is a very serious question we all need to consider and possibly take action on.

[Original48]

Somebody said Bracky reports to Keenum. Not sure of the organizational chart. But adopting the marketing schemes of the Montgomery Biscuits on gameday has killed a once great homefield advantage.

[TheRef]

Will someone please just inform everyone that it is Stricklin not Strickland....good Lord no wonder people mock us when we can't even spell our HC (Mullin as some spell it) or our AD (see above)

[Political Hack]

I'm 746% sure that Thick was a victim of autocorrect.

[TheRef]

I'm 746% sure that Thick was a victim of autocorrect.

I agree...but it does make me cringe just a bit when I see the spelling errors. I did not mean it to be pointed at any person, but you know there are those few people that will draw conclusions from these things. No hard feelings, Thick?

[Original48]

I agree...but it does make me cringe just a bit when I see the spelling errors. I did not mean it to be pointed at any person, but you know there are those few people that will draw conclusions from these things. No hard feelings, Thick?
I miss Greg Bryne.

[Thick]

I agree...but it does make me cringe just a bit when I see the spelling errors. I did not mean it to be pointed at any person, but you know there are those few people that will draw conclusions from these things. No hard feelings, Thick?

You're right, and I didn't even realize that I did it. My bad, because that crap drives me crazy too!

[Thick]

Who else did some booster wants besides Kenny Payne?

There were several that were interested, but after initial conversations between parties that ended quickly. Kenny Payne was not our only option, BUT he was a damn good one that TOTALLY understands the secrets of recruiting.

This thread is about what's best for MSU period. Does Mullen have anything to do with game day atmosphere, our compliance dept, etc? I just think that Stricklin is a great "yes" man not a true leader of a SEC athletic dept, maybe a small school.

[TheRef]

You're right, and I didn't even realize that I did it. My bad, because that crap drives me crazy too!

It's all good buddy.

[Coach34]

. No hard feelings, Thick?

Dont make Thick angry...you wont like him when he is angry

[Coach34]

This thread is about what's best for MSU period. Does Mullen have anything to do with game day atmosphere, our compliance dept, etc? I just think that Stricklin is a great "yes" man not a true leader of a SEC athletic dept, maybe a small school.


This all day long

[preachermatt83]

I wanted bruce pearl!

[engie]

This thread is about what's best for MSU period. Does Mullen have anything to do with game day atmosphere, our compliance dept, etc? I just think that Stricklin is a great "yes" man not a true leader of a SEC athletic dept, maybe a small school.

Agreed. He's proving quickly that he's not up for the task after a promising start...

[ShotgunDawg]

Elite Dawgs speaking to Stricklin

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/2402990/you-have-no-marbles-o.gif

[War Machine Dawg]

I've said it and I'll stand by it: Stricklin is LT 2.0. As engie pointed out, the early results looked promising. But it's been downhill for a while now. He's a fundraiser with little or no vision of what MSU can and should be. Frankly, he wasn't prepared for the job when he got it. But in typical inbred MSU fashion, we had to hire the guy "from the family." Until we stop that BS, we will never be much more than we are now. The next MSU AD needs to have absolutely zero MSU ties, so far as I'm concerned. I've been saying it for a few weeks now: Unless we're willing to address the real problems at the administrative level, it doesn't matter a single damn who the coach is. We aren't playing on the same field until we change our administrative leadership. And if Keenum isn't on board with that, then he needs to go as well. It would kill me, because I think he has been and will continue to be a great president for MSU. But no one is bigger than the university. Get on board or get gone.

[coastdoglover]

Ditto


I've said it and I'll stand by it: Stricklin is LT 2.0. As engie pointed out, the early results looked promising. But it's been downhill for a while now. He's a fundraiser with little or no vision of what MSU can and should be. Frankly, he wasn't prepared for the job when he got it. But in typical inbred MSU fashion, we had to hire the guy "from the family." Until we stop that BS, we will never be much more than we are now. The next MSU AD needs to have absolutely zero MSU ties, so far as I'm concerned. I've been saying it for a few weeks now: Unless we're willing to address the real problems at the administrative level, it doesn't matter a single damn who the coach is. We aren't playing on the same field until we change our administrative leadership. And if Keenum isn't on board with that, then he needs to go as well. It would kill me, because I think he has been and will continue to be a great president for MSU. But no one is bigger than the university. Get on board or get gone.

[PendingTransaction]

If Scott had worn better fitting pants, we would have beaten Auburn. But noooo, he had to wear those hip-huggers.

[Homedawg]

I miss Greg Bryne.

Missing byrne is fine. However, based on this argument, I'm not sure how. Besides the class that Mullen signed that belonged to croom, he signed his worst class under Greg's tenure. So to say are killing it based on Greg vs Scott is well not real. Lets be honest it was Dan who Wanted to do it the right way all along no matter the ad. What do you want any ad to do, tell em cheat your ass off boys? Greg didn't say that and neither does Scott. Why? Cause they can't. But with all that said, our recruiting has gotten better under Stricklin. Should that be because of what he has done to help football recruiting? No. But based of the missing Byrne post one would think the ad is in charge of recruiting. Hell Mal Moore was ad at Bama before Saban got there. How could it get better? Way way too much stock is being put in the ad as far as recruiting goes. And to add, as far as hoops, ray is all over the aau scene. How can that be of Stricklin is against it?

[engie]

Missing byrne is fine. However, based on this argument, I'm not sure how. Besides the class that Mullen signed that belonged to croom, he signed his worst class under Greg's tenure. So to say are killing it based on Greg vs Scott is well not real. Lets be honest it was Dan who Wanted to do it the right way all along no matter the ad. What do you want any ad to do, tell em cheat your ass off boys? Greg didn't say that and neither does Scott. Why? Cause they can't. But with all that said, our recruiting has gotten better under Stricklin. Should that be because of what he has done to help football recruiting? No. But based of the missing Byrne post one would think the ad is in charge of recruiting. Hell Mal Moore was ad at Bama before Saban got there. How could it get better? Way way too much stock is being put in the ad as far as recruiting goes. And to add, as far as hoops, ray is all over the aau scene. How can that be of Stricklin is against it?

So much wrong with every part of this...

[thunderclap]

I'm in the crowd that thinks he is closer to being an LT than a Byrne. And that ain't good.

[smootness]

People also act like Stricklin hired Bracky Brett to begin with. It's not as though he wasn't Byrne's compliance director, too.

[Thick]

Missing byrne is fine. However, based on this argument, I'm not sure how. Besides the class that Mullen signed that belonged to croom, he signed his worst class under Greg's tenure. So to say are killing it based on Greg vs Scott is well not real. Lets be honest it was Dan who Wanted to do it the right way all along no matter the ad. What do you want any ad to do, tell em cheat your ass off boys? Greg didn't say that and neither does Scott. Why? Cause they can't. But with all that said, our recruiting has gotten better under Stricklin. Should that be because of what he has done to help football recruiting? No. But based of the missing Byrne post one would think the ad is in charge of recruiting. Hell Mal Moore was ad at Bama before Saban got there. How could it get better? Way way too much stock is being put in the ad as far as recruiting goes. And to add, as far as hoops, ray is all over the aau scene. How can that be of Stricklin is against it?

Do you understand the effects of a poor AD? If the AD makes poor decisions in all facets of the athletic program it has a direct effect on donations, game attendance, and has a direct correlation with enrollment. Templeton was horrible, and it showed big time, from production, attendance, marketing, fundraising, etc.

This is not an attack toward you, but good AD's make things happen opposed to getting in the way. When Saban was hired at Bama, do you think the AD did it by himself or did a group of boosters suggest the move while providing the financing of the deal. Good AD's listen to their donors that have a direct influence on a program to make the correct decisions. I don't believe Stricklin does a good job of listening to donors.

[bobcat91]

Stricklin is a funds raiser. He is used to being a number two guy and it shows. He is going to screw up Dudy Noble and will make a football hire that makes Croom look competent. It won't be HUD because HUD wants no part of him.

[Original48]

Missing byrne is fine. However, based on this argument, I'm not sure how. Besides the class that Mullen signed that belonged to croom, he signed his worst class under Greg's tenure. So to say are killing it based on Greg vs Scott is well not real. Lets be honest it was Dan who Wanted to do it the right way all along no matter the ad. What do you want any ad to do, tell em cheat your ass off boys? Greg didn't say that and neither does Scott. Why? Cause they can't. But with all that said, our recruiting has gotten better under Stricklin. Should that be because of what he has done to help football recruiting? No. But based of the missing Byrne post one would think the ad is in charge of recruiting. Hell Mal Moore was ad at Bama before Saban got there. How could it get better? Way way too much stock is being put in the ad as far as recruiting goes. And to add, as far as hoops, ray is all over the aau scene. How can that be of Stricklin is against it?
He said Strickland so I said Bryne. BR...BRyne. Not Byrne. I miss BRYNE. I was being funny and you missed it. Then you made this post backing Strickland. StrickLAND would have hired Raffo. And that class you say Mullen signed that was Croom's? Bryne/Byrne registered with the NCAA to become a recruiter during the coaching search. So you have to give Bryne Byrne credit as well.

[Todd4State]

I think Scott has a LOT of work to do. Byrne hired Dan and that was a pretty good hire overall. We were close to hiring Hud at that time and I wish we had gone ahead and done so in hindsight, but I understand why he didn't. He also brought in Cohen and had to deal with the wrath of Ron Polk- and I am forever grateful for that.

As far as Scott:

Football- I'm going to defer comments about what he should do about Dan until the season ends. You can pretty much tell how I feel about that anyway. Depending on how the season ends, we'll find out if he will do whatever he needs to do- whether we have a good end or a bad end to the season. We need to end all of the commercials during the football game- it's absurd and it's overboard. I mean, Deep South Pout? At a football game? Come on Scott. Also, quit with the gimmicky stuff like Snow Bowl uniforms. Play every game on Saturday for a change and quit pretending that us playing on Thursday is somehow awesome just because Jackie beat Florida in 1992. Also, no more whoring us out to some random pre-season kickoff classic to watch us get our ass kicked for 2 million dollars and derail the entire season. I guess Scott learned his lesson on that since he issued an apology for it. The coaches show is a joke and we need to overhaul our video production and do what Ole Miss does.

Basketball- I think the Ray is what people are the most pissed off at Scott over. Or at least it raised some doubts. But I also think that Payne's connections to Nike and the fact that he at one time left MSU high and dry back when he was a superstar in high school and the fact that Payne was from a program that was recruiting a lot of AAU players sort of like Sidney and a lot of people wanted us to get away from that all factored into that decision. But I actually like Ray and think he will end up being a solid hire. It would not shock me at all if he takes us to the Sweet 16 in a few years. One way or the other- I'm willing to give him a chance. If he goes to the NIT this year, I'll be very pleased.

Baseball- He's riding the coat tails of Byrne at least to a degree since Cohen was Byrne's hire. But he has at least started to put together a new stadium plan and on short notice. And Scott seems like he is willing to stand up to the lifetime license holders and end that disaster once and for all- which is a VERY good thing. And that's not going to be an easy thing either. A lot of them are very vocal as we have seen with the Cohen cussing in the dugout saga and the meetings- "You aren't gonna take our seats are you!?"

Women's sports- who gives a crap? Evil neccessity.

This is a tough time for Scott and would be tough for any athletic director because I think we're kind of at a crossroads right now. But I think he can cement his legacy in a good way if he fixes the football atmosphere, Dudy-Noble gets renovated properly and becomes the best in the college game again, and IF he has to- make a quality hire at the football coach position. He can earn a lot of points. And Ray really needs to work out for him as well.

[AROB44]

We better hope Scott gets to being a much better AD because he probably has the job for a long long time. Tell me how many times we have changed ADs....not very often if I remember correctly.

[Dawgfan77]

We better hope Scott gets to being a much better AD because he probably has the job for a long long time. Tell me how many times we have changed ADs....not very often if I remember correctly.

Good point, but we have never had a fan base this passionate as a whole, and we have never had this much money. I agree with Todd that we need to wait and see how the last three games play out. Also, he wouldn't be the first AD to get fired based on the success or failure of football, it is the cash cow

[Homedawg]

He said Strickland so I said Bryne. BR...BRyne. Not Byrne. I miss BRYNE. I was being funny and you missed it. Then you made this post backing Strickland. StrickLAND would have hired Raffo. And that class you say Mullen signed that was Croom's? Bryne/Byrne registered with the NCAA to become a recruiter during the coaching search. So you have to give Bryne Byrne credit as well.

No I wasn't backing Strick as much as saying giving the Greg credit recruiting is nuts when mullen had his worst class under him. As far as Stricklin hiring Raffo, well that would be wrong but u can continue to speculate and think that of u want. As for Greg registering w the NCAA, great, but at the end of the day croom got the class and Mullen held it together.

[Homedawg]

Do you understand the effects of a poor AD? If the AD makes poor decisions in all facets of the athletic program it has a direct effect on donations, game attendance, and has a direct correlation with enrollment. Templeton was horrible, and it showed big time, from production, attendance, marketing, fundraising, etc.

This is not an attack toward you, but good AD's make things happen opposed to getting in the way. When Saban was hired at Bama, do you think the AD did it by himself or did a group of boosters suggest the move while providing the financing of the deal. Good AD's listen to their donors that have a direct influence on a program to make the correct decisions. I don't believe Stricklin does a good job of listening to donors.

Yes, thick I do. My response wasn't praising nor grilling Scott or Greg. The importance of the ad is just what u said. The point is, Mullen was the one who didn't want any stuff happening. Hell he went out of his way asking players had they gotten things from other places.....I can go on but this isn't the place.

[Thick]

Yes, thick I do. My response wasn't praising nor grilling Scott or Greg. The importance of the ad is just what u said. The point is, Mullen was the one who didn't want any stuff happening. Hell he went out of his way asking players had they gotten things from other places.....I can go on but this isn't the place.

I was told something entirely different, and it's both Stricklin and Mullen. You're right though, this is NOT the place.

[Jack Lambert]

I guess since they are cutting off the mullen hate you are now turning it on Strick. Once they cut that off who will you turn it to?

[Political Hack]

CDM wants a level playing field and he knows he'll never get that in Mississippi. From the staff:

"None of us have ever seen anything like what ole miss does in recruiting. Mississippi is crazy."

None of them, on their past stops, have been as close to recruiting as they have to be when they're going up against OM. It's a different ball game. But then, State is made to stop while OM continues. What would you have the coaches do? Their hands are tied and they're not allowed to play by the same rules as their rival that's an hour and half down the road.

Also, other ADs sit around and laugh about this crap. There's a boys club and they don't rat on each other and allow things to be swept under the rug for the most part. You know who's not a member of that boys club? Gomer.

luckily for us OM overstepped their boundaries and pissed off Texas, UGA, Bama, Ohio State, and others. Pissing State off doesn't really matter, but they can't do that to those programs and come out unscathed. Just a question of whether their lawyers can get them out of it.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

Just a question, but if Coach Ray gets us to the dance in the next 2 years, will all of these arguments, most of which stem from the Ray hire, end? Or will those of you who are pissed that Kenny Payne wasn't hired (or that Stans was fired) just jump full force into the recruiting debate as your argument that our AD is the problem?

[AROB44]

CDM wants a level playing field and he knows he'll never get that in Mississippi. From the staff:

"None of us have ever seen anything like what ole miss does in recruiting. Mississippi is crazy."

None of them, on their past stops, have been as close to recruiting as they have to be when they're going up against OM. It's a different ball game. But then, State is made to stop while OM continues. What would you have the coaches do? Their hands are tied and they're not allowed to play by the same rules as their rival that's an hour and half down the road.

Also, other ADs sit around and laugh about this crap. There's a boys club and they don't rat on each other and allow things to be swept under the rug for the most part. You know who's not a member of that boys club? Gomer.

luckily for us OM overstepped their boundaries and pissed off Texas, UGA, Bama, Ohio State, and others. Pissing State off doesn't really matter, but they can't do that to those programs and come out unscathed. Just a question of whether their lawyers can get them out of it.

That is a pretty powerful statement Hack....not that I question your validity.

[Thick]

Just a question, but if Coach Ray gets us to the dance in the next 2 years, will all of these arguments, most of which stem from the Ray hire, end? Or will those of you who are pissed that Kenny Payne wasn't hired (or that Stans was fired) just jump full force into the recruiting debate as your argument that our AD is the problem?

No, most of the basketball donors are over the hire, BUT if Ray can't get it done Stricklin won't be involved in the next search/hire. Yes, he will be the sound board during the process, but he won't have much if any influence on the decision. That's what I have been told.

[gtowndawg]

That's a bold statement....and I believe every word of it. I honestly do.


CDM wants a level playing field and he knows he'll never get that in Mississippi. From the staff:

"None of us have ever seen anything like what ole miss does in recruiting. Mississippi is crazy."

None of them, on their past stops, have been as close to recruiting as they have to be when they're going up against OM. It's a different ball game. But then, State is made to stop while OM continues. What would you have the coaches do? Their hands are tied and they're not allowed to play by the same rules as their rival that's an hour and half down the road.

Also, other ADs sit around and laugh about this crap. There's a boys club and they don't rat on each other and allow things to be swept under the rug for the most part. You know who's not a member of that boys club? Gomer.

luckily for us OM overstepped their boundaries and pissed off Texas, UGA, Bama, Ohio State, and others. Pissing State off doesn't really matter, but they can't do that to those programs and come out unscathed. Just a question of whether their lawyers can get them out of it.

[maroonmania]

People also act like Stricklin hired Bracky Brett to begin with. It's not as though he wasn't Byrne's compliance director, too.

Exactly, I think Byrne gets TOO much credit around here. Its showing that Mullen was a decent hire but not great. Mullen has a lot of personality issues that detract from his ability to recruit yet Byrne hired him anyway. Byrne also had every chance to rearrange our compliance department yet failed to do it. Whatever we are saying the current admin won't let the football staff do in recruiting was also apparently in effect under Byrne (based on the Cam Newton debacle). The best thing Byrne ever did was buck Polk and hire Cohen, beyond that he was a good AD but not irreplaceable. And I personally don't know who Strick would have hired in baseball, I know he would have WANTED to hire Cohen who he knew very well from his days at KY but whether he, as a State guy, would have been willing to publicly go to blows with Polk like Byrne did to bring in Cohen I don't know. It was probably better we did have an "outsider" as an AD when all that went down.

[engie]

No, most of the basketball donors are over the hire, BUT if Ray can't get it done Stricklin won't be involved in the next search/hire. Yes, he will be the sound board during the process, but he won't have much if any influence on the decision. That's what I have been told.

Exactly how a potential football hire would be handled IMO.

If he isn't trusted to do another basketball search -- do people really think he would be trusted to do a football search?

If he's stonewalled from that search process -- does anyone really believe he will then be allowed to be the "boss" of that person after their hiring -- where it's a sabotaged situation with built in resentment from him?

[maroonmania]

Exactly how a potential football hire would be handled IMO.

If he isn't trusted to do another basketball search -- do people really think he would be trusted to do a football search?

If he's stonewalled from that search process -- does anyone really believe he will then be allowed to be the "boss" of that person after their hiring -- where it's a sabotaged situation with built in resentment from him?

IF we make a change this year, which is not likely, I think the search will be a formality because something will have been set up for Hud to take over or BETTER BE. If Hud ain't coming then there is no reason to start over with someone else without giving Mullen one more year. It would be beyond foolish to make a change this year for anyone other than a guy who is an up and coming HC with D1 experience, a known quantity to MSU fans, and a perfect fit for our university culture which is only Hud. I don't want another experiment like Mullen or we would be just as well to stick with Mullen. And believe me, when you hire someone with no D1 experience as a HC who has only ever been a coordinator, you are experimenting. Jackie Sherrill was not an experiment but Rockey Felker, Sly Croom and Dan Mullen were all experiments when we hired them.

[Percho]

There were several that were interested, but after initial conversations between parties that ended quickly. Kenny Payne was not our only option, BUT he was a damn good one that TOTALLY understands the secrets of recruiting.

This thread is about what's best for MSU period. Does Mullen have anything to do with game day atmosphere, our compliance dept, etc? I just think that Stricklin is a great "yes" man not a true leader of a SEC athletic dept, maybe a small school.

Who does he say yes to?

[engie]

Who does he say yes to?

ESPN, the SEC, and the NCAA...

That's why we got pinned with half our home SEC games being on Thursday nights -- and got coaxed into taking a game that aTm refused under the promise of a Vanderbilt SEC game(HA)...

[maroonmania]

ESPN, the SEC, and the NCAA...

That's why we got pinned with half our home SEC games being on Thursday nights -- and got coaxed into taking a game that aTm refused under the promise of a Vanderbilt SEC game(HA)...

The bad part is even if we had actually gotten Vandy the kickoff game would have been a bad idea. Vandy is certainly no easy win anymore. They are not SC but they certainly have every capability to beat you.

[Percho]

That's a bold statement....and I believe every word of it. I honestly do.

I agree and we can only hope those schools equalize things in Our State again.

[Percho]

The bad part is even if we had actually gotten Vandy the kickoff game would have been a bad idea. Vandy is certainly no easy win anymore. They are not SC but they certainly have every capability to beat you.

I bet OK St would not get in line to play Vandy today.

[Thick]

He does a great job of fundraising, but yet we pay our assistants peanuts and people wonder why we have the coordinators we have. He's made one decision on his own and that was the Ray hire.

[sandwolf]

But then, State is made to stop while OM continues. What would you have the coaches do? Their hands are tied and they're not allowed to play by the same rules as their rival that's an hour and half down the road.

Is there no other way for us to fight back against this type of shit? I have no idea how things work behind the scenes in recruiting, so I may be living in a complete fantasy world with this line of thinking, but would it not be realistic for us to take the money that we would have been spending on recruits and spend it on getting hard, irrefutable evidence against OM (using PI's or something like that)? I mean if things are as bad as you make them sound, then we ought to be able to get a hold of some hard evidence fairly easily......then send it anonymously to the press and to the NCAA. Is that just completely unrealistic?

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

Exactly how a potential football hire would be handled IMO.

If he isn't trusted to do another basketball search -- do people really think he would be trusted to do a football search?

If he's stonewalled from that search process -- does anyone really believe he will then be allowed to be the "boss" of that person after their hiring -- where it's a sabotaged situation with built in resentment from him?

Yet, the only reason he isn't trusted to make another bball hire in that scenario is because he didn't hire who the boosters wanted him to hire. Which really just means that the boosters are simply upset about not having complete control, even though there is no guarantee that the coach they wanted would've even been a better hire than Coach Ray, other than maybe giving them more control over the program. Sounds like one big vicious circle to me, and we may be our own worst enemy.

[DanDority]

I wanted bruce pearl!

I wanted Steve Alford. I know it too late for that, thanks UCLA!

[Political Hack]

Yet, the only reason he isn't trusted to make another bball hire in that scenario is because he didn't hire who the boosters wanted him to hire. Which really just means that the boosters are simply upset about not having complete control, even though there is no guarantee that the coach they wanted would've even been a better hire than Coach Ray, other than maybe giving them more control over the program. Sounds like one big vicious circle to me, and we may be our own worst enemy.

that's not true. he didn't engage the right people and build relationships during the hire. he tore them down. By the time he was done with it the biggest college basketball coaches' association was bashing our program and encouraging people to not even interview. we're damn lucky we got Ricky Ray in here.

[Thick]

Yet, the only reason he isn't trusted to make another bball hire in that scenario is because he didn't hire who the boosters wanted him to hire. Which really just means that the boosters are simply upset about not having complete control, even though there is no guarantee that the coach they wanted would've even been a better hire than Coach Ray, other than maybe giving them more control over the program. Sounds like one big vicious circle to me, and we may be our own worst enemy.

It seems that way, but PH is correct. There were coaches that were lobbying their colleagues to not interview. Also, after Ray was hired, and the dust began settling, Stricklin begin kissing a lot of asses for what he did. A deal was actually struck with another candidate, and Stricklin vetoed it and hired Ray behind their backs. That's the reasoning behind the distrust and some disdain for him.


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschool-prep-rally/california-youth-football-mercy-rule-inflames-parental-passions-103325382.html

[maroonmania]

It seems that way, but PH is correct. There were coaches that were lobbying their colleagues to not interview. Also, after Ray was hired, and the dust began settling, Stricklin begin kissing a lot of asses for what he did. A deal was actually struck with another candidate, and Stricklin vetoed it and hired Ray behind their backs. That's the reasoning behind the distrust and some disdain for him.


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschool-prep-rally/california-youth-football-mercy-rule-inflames-parental-passions-103325382.html

So I guess our boosters are the only group Stricklin is NOT a "yes man" for apparently. I have no idea with what happened behind the scenes BUT on paper if Payne was the boosters' candidate then he was significantly less qualified than Ray to be the HC at a BCS conference school. Ray at least was an "associate HC" at an ACC school (you know an actual basketball league), Payne is like a 3rd banana recruiter on Calipari's staff who I have NO idea whether he can actually RUN a program. If we just simply wanted a recruiter as a HC I'm not really sure why we cut Stans loose. I do believe Ray is a good floor coach and sharp individual but will admit the jury is out on him as far as the level of player he can recruit to the program.

[Political Hack]

So I guess our boosters are the only group Stricklin is NOT a "yes man" for apparently. I have no idea with what happened behind the scenes BUT on paper if Payne was the boosters' candidate then he was significantly less qualified than Ray to be the HC at a BCS conference school. Ray at least was an "associate HC" at an ACC school (you know an actual basketball league), Payne is like a 3rd banana recruiter on Calipari's staff who I have NO idea whether he can actually RUN a program. If we just simply wanted a recruiter as a HC I'm not really sure why we cut Stans loose. I do believe Ray is a good floor coach and sharp individual but will admit the jury is out on him as far as the level of player he can recruit to the program.

I don't think anyone is arguing the meritsnf the hire. It was the way the search was conducted and how the MSU Ath Dept damaged relationships with everyone from boosters to coaches to a coaches association.

[maroonmania]

I don't think anyone is arguing the meritsnf the hire. It was the way the search was conducted and how the MSU Ath Dept damaged relationships with everyone from boosters to coaches to a coaches association.

Ok, so I think I understand the situation where Stricklin did not build bridges with the boosters in the hire. Can you explain what SS did that somehow alienated or soured relationships with coaches and a coaches association? I guess I'm not following what happened there and why in the world a CA would disuade coaches from wanting to interview for our job.

[engie]

I don't think anyone is arguing the meritsnf the hire. It was the way the search was conducted and how the MSU Ath Dept damaged relationships with everyone from boosters to coaches to a coaches association.

Exactly.

No one is bashing Ray at this point. It may prove to be the right decision. The argument is that the wrong path was taken to arrive at that decision...

[Political Hack]

Ok, so I think I understand the situation where Stricklin did not build bridges with the boosters in the hire. Can you explain what SS did that somehow alienated or soured relationships with coaches and a coaches association? I guess I'm not following what happened there and why in the world a CA would disuade coaches from wanting to interview for our job.

boosters get over things. I don't concern myself with that too much... he wouldn't interview or consider candidates from the coaches association and shut them out of the process based on what I was told. Thick probably knows more than I do about it. In short though, the single most influential group over college coaches got pissed a ripped our program based on the way he interacted with them.

[maroonmania]

boosters get over things. I don't concern myself with that too much... he wouldn't interview or consider candidates from the coaches association and shut them out of the process based on what I was told. Thick probably knows more than I do about it. In short though, the single most influential group over college coaches got pissed a ripped our program based on the way he interacted with them.

OK, does anyone understand why an AD would do that? Right or wrong Stricklin had to have had a reason. Do the vast majority of college coaches belong to the association? I would assume yes which make it even more strange why our AD would not consider candidates from that group. I mean I might could understand if Stricklin didn't want the CA dictating to him who he could interview or consider but I don't understand why Stricklin would not consider a candidate just because they belonged to the association.

[Thick]

To add to what PH, engie, and I are saying, some of these boosters are on the President's Executive Board (think that's what it's called), and they report/meet with Keenum.

[engie]

OK, does anyone understand why an AD would do that? Right or wrong Stricklin had to have had a reason. Do the vast majority of college coaches belong to the association? I would assume yes which make it even more strange why our AD would not consider candidates from that group. I mean I might could understand if Stricklin didn't want the CA dictating to him who he could interview or consider but I don't understand why Stricklin would not consider a candidate just because they belonged to the association.

If we believed that he had a good, common-sense reason for it -- we wouldn't still be up his ass about it. If it was some simple reasons, he would just have to explain them to a few people, and this "problem" goes away for him. The fact that he hasn't doesn't help him at all...

What's his explanation for the Thursday Kentucky game while the students were on fall break? Simple fact of the matter is that I said AS SOON AS it was announced that there is no way we'd fill the stadium for that game. That's either being a "yes man" for ESPN and the SEC -- or having a terribly misguided view of reality -- BOTH of which are things that Templeton would do. And that game looked like shit on TV...

It's a long line of things he's just not living up to expectations in. Can he correct them? Sure. But he's burned a ton of consumer confidence in the past year or so...

[Dawgfan77]

To add to what PH, engie, and I are saying, some of these boosters are on the President's Executive Board (think that's what it's called), and they report/meet with Keenum.
Like I said Saturday. The ray hire was not who Kenum supported from my understanding

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

OK, does anyone understand why an AD would do that? Right or wrong Stricklin had to have had a reason. Do the vast majority of college coaches belong to the association? I would assume yes which make it even more strange why our AD would not consider candidates from that group. I mean I might could understand if Stricklin didn't want the CA dictating to him who he could interview or consider but I don't understand why Stricklin would not consider a candidate just because they belonged to the association.

I am having the same thoughts. So I am to believe that Stricklin essentially pulled his dick out and slapped everyone important with it, then took a big shit in the middle of their coatrooms before telling everyone to **** off and hiring who he wanted regardless of what anyone else around him thought? Because that's the picture that we seem to be painting.

What coaches association? Are there numerous coaches associations? Why wouldn't there just be one college basketball coaches association? And if there is only one, do all coaches not belong to it? Further, why should he have hired who a coaches association (which I assume is comprised of coaches from other schools?) wanted him to hire?

There just seem to be a lot of questions, and most of them simply point back to certain people being unhappy about not having enough influence in the ultimate hiring decision. And for the record, I believe I have a good idea who at least a few of these folks Thick is talking about are.

I'm also over this debate about Thursday games and shit. It sucks to play on Thursday, but I do not believe that all falls on the AD. He controls the schedule to a degree, but the sheer amount of money flowing in from the SEC and ESPN dictates that our position in those negotiations is not simply black and white as engie wants us to believe. Engie, if you have anything that actually disproves that, I'd love to hear it.

[dawg21]

So what I'm gathering is that Stricklin is a "yes" man to everybody outside the MSU family and a "screw you" man to his boss and most influential boosters. Just think of the funds we could get if this wasn't the case!!!

[engie]

I'm also over this debate about Thursday games and shit. It sucks to play on Thursday, but I do not believe that all falls on the AD. He controls the schedule to a degree, but the sheer amount of money flowing in from the SEC and ESPN dictates that our position in those negotiations is not simply black and white as engie wants us to believe. Engie, if you have anything that actually disproves that, I'd love to hear it.

The last time OM played a home game on a Thursday - Egg Bowl 2002. Eleven seasons ago. If it was an ESPN or SEC mandate -- how are THEY avoiding it while we get stuck with it? Because they've got a sack and tell them they aren't doing it -- while LT and his crony Strick volunteer us. There is NOTHING in the SEC contract mandating any certain number of Thursday night games for each SEC team. The contract requires 2 SEC teams play on Thursday night/season(doesn't matter home or away as long as ESPN gets the game) -- and you've got South Carolina and Vanderbilt volunteering yearly now. That number was met opening night this year with USCe vs UNC and Vandy vs OM. We are playing equivalent to the TOTAL MANDATE FOR THE SEC AT HOME IN ONE SINGLE YEAR.

SEC teams to play on Thursday @ home:
South Carolina(2013) vs North Carolina
Vanderbilt(2013) vs Ole Miss
MSU(2013) vs Kentucky
MSU(2013) vs Ole Miss
Vanderbilt(2012) vs South Carolina
MSU(2011) vs LSU
South Carolina(2010) vs Southern Miss
MSU(2010) vs Auburn
Alabama(2010) vs Georgia State
South Carolina(2009) vs Ole Miss
South Carolina(2008) vs NC State
Vanderbilt(2008) vs South Carolina
MSU(2007) vs LSU
South Carolina(2007) vs Kentucky
MSU(2006) vs South Carolina
South Carolina(2006) vs Auburn
South Carolina(2005) vs UCF
South Carolina(2003) vs Kentucky
Arkansas(2003) vs South Carolina
MSU(2003) vs Ole Miss
several more played away over this timeframe on Thursdays...

In the past decade, only FIVE SEC teams have hosted a single Thursday night game. Of those 5, 2 have done it only once(Alabama and Arkansas). Vanderbilt has done it 3 times. MSU has done it SEVEN times, while South Carolina has done it EIGHT times.

The difference between Starkville, Columbia, and Nashville? Columbia has 785,000 people living in it's metropolitan area. Nashville has 1.7 million. Starkville has 20 thousand.

Strick volunteered us ON FALL BREAK for students this year. Let that sink in. And the SEC mandate was already met. We had NO OBLIGATION to give ESPN that Kentucky game on Thursday night.

[ShotgunDawg]

The last time OM played a home game on a Thursday - Egg Bowl 2002. Eleven seasons ago. If it was an ESPN or SEC mandate -- how are THEY avoiding it while we get stuck with it? Because they've got a sack and tell them they aren't doing it -- while LT and his crony Strick volunteer us. There is NOTHING in the SEC contract mandating any certain number of Thursday night games for each SEC team. The contract requires 2 SEC teams play on Thursday night/season(doesn't matter home or away as long as ESPN gets the game) -- and you've got South Carolina and Vanderbilt volunteering yearly now. That number was met opening night this year with USCe vs UNC and Vandy vs OM. We are playing equivalent to the TOTAL MANDATE FOR THE SEC AT HOME IN ONE SINGLE YEAR.

SEC teams to play on Thursday @ home:
South Carolina(2013) vs North Carolina
Vanderbilt(2013) vs Ole Miss
MSU(2013) vs Kentucky
MSU(2013) vs Ole Miss
Vanderbilt(2012) vs South Carolina
MSU(2011) vs LSU
South Carolina(2010) vs Southern Miss
MSU(2010) vs Auburn
Alabama(2010) vs Georgia State
South Carolina(2009) vs Ole Miss
South Carolina(2008) vs NC State
Vanderbilt(2008) vs South Carolina
MSU(2007) vs LSU
South Carolina(2007) vs Kentucky
MSU(2006) vs South Carolina
South Carolina(2006) vs Auburn
South Carolina(2005) vs UCF
South Carolina(2003) vs Kentucky
Arkansas(2003) vs South Carolina
MSU(2003) vs Ole Miss
several more played away over this timeframe on Thursdays...

In the past decade, only FIVE SEC teams have hosted a single Thursday night game. Of those 5, 2 have done it only once(Alabama and Arkansas). Vanderbilt has done it 3 times. MSU has done it SEVEN times, while South Carolina has done it EIGHT times.

The difference between Starkville, Columbia, and Nashville? Columbia has 785,000 people living in it's metropolitan area. Nashville has 1.7 million. Starkville has 20 thousand.

Strick volunteered us ON FALL BREAK for students this year. Let that sink in. And the SEC mandate was already met. We had NO OBLIGATION to give ESPN that Kentucky game on Thursday night.

I totally agree. On the other hand, I also think the SEC should do a better job of not schedule home SEC games for teams that are on fall break. Since not all SEC schools have their fall break on the same weekend, it shouldn't be hard for the SEC to fix this for everyone.

[Todd4State]

I totally agree. On the other hand, I also think the SEC should do a better job of not schedule home SEC games for teams that are on fall break. Since not all SEC schools have their fall break on the same weekend, it shouldn't be hard for the SEC to fix this for everyone.

I think a home game on a Saturday during fall break would be OK. When do most students come back from fall break anyway? Sunday at the latest? Scott was asking our students to give up about half of their fall break.

But here's what has happened to our football program. We're too commercial. Every game has to have some special uniform or is played on some weird day. I think Scott wants to play games on Thursdays because I think he thinks that a lot of fans like it, I truly think he thinks we get a lot of exposure even though that is not really true, and maybe as a way to build a "tradition" since a lot of fans in past have complained that we lacked traditions.

The problem is just about everything Scott has tried for football has completely blown up in his face. Tradition just happens- it's not manufactured. And the sooner he understands that and stops trying so hard, the better off we ALL are going to be.

As far as traditions, I'm fine with ringing cowbells and having a rocking kick ass atmosphere with a lot of rock n' roll instead of Janis Joplin whining about the Lord buying her a Mercedes Benz and another Bulldog first down brought to you by Deep South Pout. You know it's bad when the opposing fans are like "what's the deal with all the commercials?"

[Todd4State]

I'm also over this debate about Thursday games and shit. It sucks to play on Thursday, but I do not believe that all falls on the AD. He controls the schedule to a degree, but the sheer amount of money flowing in from the SEC and ESPN dictates that our position in those negotiations is not simply black and white as engie wants us to believe. Engie, if you have anything that actually disproves that, I'd love to hear it.

When the AD says that they have no control over the schedule they are LYING to you. Look at engie's list. We are asking to play on Thursday. Do you really think the SEC was like "Hey! MSU/Ole Miss on Thanksgiving Day! That's what we want to see!" That's why they are going to A&M/LSU on Thanksgiving ASAP. ESPN wanted the Iron Bowl but neither Bama or Auburn wanted to do it, and heck Ole Miss didn't want to play this year on Thanksgiving. If the Egg Bowl were in Oxford, it would be on Sat. no doubt about it.

[Political Hack]

engie bringing the thunder.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

engie bringing the thunder.

ah yes, so many facts that amount to nothing but anecdotal evidence to back up a personal view and reinforce a message board agenda. y'all keep on keeping on.

[bluelightstar]

ah yes, so many facts that amount to nothing but anecdotal evidence to back up a personal view and reinforce a message board agenda. y'all keep on keeping on.

. . . .

[ShotgunDawg]

I think a home game on a Saturday during fall break would be OK. When do most students come back from fall break anyway? Sunday at the latest? Scott was asking our students to give up about half of their fall break.

But here's what has happened to our football program. We're too commercial. Every game has to have some special uniform or is played on some weird day. I think Scott wants to play games on Thursdays because I think he thinks that a lot of fans like it, I truly think he thinks we get a lot of exposure even though that is not really true, and maybe as a way to build a "tradition" since a lot of fans in past have complained that we lacked traditions.

The problem is just about everything Scott has tried for football has completely blown up in his face. Tradition just happens- it's not manufactured. And the sooner he understands that and stops trying so hard, the better off we ALL are going to be.

As far as traditions, I'm fine with ringing cowbells and having a rocking kick ass atmosphere with a lot of rock n' roll instead of Janis Joplin whining about the Lord buying her a Mercedes Benz and another Bulldog first down brought to you by Deep South Pout. You know it's bad when the opposing fans are like "what's the deal with all the commercials?"

I completely agree, plus who wants the exposure of a half empty stadium on Thursday nigh anyway?

Scott has little feel for what works and what doesn't. Your right, everything blows up in his face because he believe in some alternate reality that doesn't exist.

[Thick]

ah yes, so many facts that amount to nothing but anecdotal evidence to back up a personal view and reinforce a message board agenda. y'all keep on keeping on.

So where are your facts? If you're going to question, then you need something to back your position.

[17thebearz]

I am still giving Stricklin the benefit of the doubt. IF he doesnt replace Mullen or replace some of Mullen's assistants then I might think differently about him.

[smootness]

So where are your facts? If you're going to question, then you need something to back your position.

Not really. If you're questioning someone else's strongly-believed position, you just need to continue asking for them to provide proof. I somewhat agree with newtweeder here. I don't believe that this many people on a State message board have actual connections; I think a consensus forms based on a few posters continually posting as though they know exactly how things went down, and then you become an idiot of you question it.

For instance, this idea that State is Hud's dream school and that he wants more than anything to coach at State and would never leave. This is spouted as though obvious fact, yet the only thing I've seen anyone bring to the table is an article written after he was hired as an assistant saying that he grew up a State fan and wanted to coach here. If that's where it's coming from, that's pretty weak.

I also continually see people claiming connections, yet they never mention, in any way, what their connections actually are. Sorry if I don't get on a message board and just believe everyone because they tell me they have connections.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

So where are your facts? If you're going to question, then you need something to back your position.

Why do I need facts to ask questions? If I had all the facts, what would be the point in asking the questions? It's clear that the mantra being put out on this and a few other message boards is that Stricklin, Dan and Bracky all must go immediately. Maybe they all really do need to go. I don't generally comment on Bracky one way or the other because I really don't know what his job is about enough to pass judgment. The stuff about Stricklin I simply question because, if you read it without a preconceived opinion on the matter, most of it comes off as sour grapes or just a mantra that has been drilled into people's heads through the message boards by those who do have sour grapes. Perhaps you guys are 100% right, but as I posted earlier, I have a hard time just wandering off with the sheep and believing all of the rumors that are making the rounds without asking the questions. Furthermore, I'm sorry that I don't take "because Ole Miss hasn't played one in 10 years" as set in stone evidence on the Thursday night issue.

[Thick]

How can you not know who Bracky is or what his position is at MSU? He's head of compliance, and a huge partner with the NCAA, not MSU. He should be replaced, no question, after what he did to Redmond. As far as Mullen is concerned, the season needs to play out. Stricklin will have some decisions to make in the very near future that will either reaffirm that he's the right guy or get him shit canned.

[sleepy dawg]

I am still giving Stricklin the benefit of the doubt. IF he doesnt replace Mullen or replace some of Mullen's assistants then I might think differently about him.

I laughed at this... You may as well start thinking "differently" about him now then. Stricklin is not firing Mullen this year. The only chance is if we lose out, which isn't happening. Mullen is in charge of his own assistants, not Stricklin.

I have no connections, and can only base my opinions based off what I see and what I read on here and other places. I hear on here that Scott is a "Yes" man, but then everything I read about how he has treated situations points to him being more of a "I do what I want, and what I think is best for the program" man. Whether or not he knows what is best is one thing, but it seems to me he is trying to do what is best and not just trying to please certain people.

[sandwolf]

I am still giving Stricklin the benefit of the doubt. IF he doesnt replace Mullen or replace some of Mullen's assistants then I might think differently about him.

Mullen should be the only person who makes decisions regarding his assistant coaches.

[MarketingBully01]

I am thinking Greg Byrne would have gotten Scott Drew and we would already be back in the NCAA tourney with that type of hire.

[smootness]

I hear on here that Scott is a "Yes" man, but then everything I read about how he has treated situations points to him being more of a "I do what I want, and what I think is best for the program" man. Whether or not he knows what is best is one thing, but it seems to me he is trying to do what is best and not just trying to please certain people.

I've said all along that I believe the idea of Stricklin as a cowardly 'yes man' comes simply from the way he comes across publicly. He comes across like a good ol' country boy, and I think people assume, based on this, that he is in over his head. There is very little to suggest this is actually true. It is funny, too, as you point out, that people accuse him of being a 'yes man' but then are upset when he doesn't go along with boosters, coaches associations, etc. or hires a guy the President doesn't want. Seems to me to be the opposite of a yes man, but what do I know.

[smootness]

I am thinking Greg Byrne would have gotten Scott Drew and we would already be back in the NCAA tourney with that type of hire.

What makes you think he could have gotten Scott Drew?

[RiverCityDawg]

I am thinking Greg Byrne would have gotten Scott Drew and we would already be back in the NCAA tourney with that type of hire.

Nevermind the fact that you have no idea if Byrne could have gotten Drew, you think Drew could have gotten last year's pile of crap to the tourney? That is beyond delusional. The love child of John Wooden and Bobby Knight couldn't have taken our 6-8 healthy bodies to the NIT last year.

[smootness]

Nevermind the fact that you have no idea if Byrne could have gotten Drew, you think Drew could have gotten last year's pile of crap to the tourney? That is beyond delusional. The love child of John Wooden and Bobby Knight couldn't have taken our 6-8 healthy bodies to the NIT last year.

I didn't even read the rest of his post haha. I assumed he had just said that Byrne would have hired Drew and we would be much further along because I assumed he was talking about Drew's ability to recruit.

But yes, if anyone thinks that team last year was ever going to do more than it did, they're insane. Especially under Scott Drew, who is essentially Stansbury, where he can recruit like crazy but can't coach them up very well.

[engie]

Not really. If you're questioning someone else's strongly-believed position, you just need to continue asking for them to provide proof. I somewhat agree with newtweeder here. I don't believe that this many people on a State message board have actual connections; I think a consensus forms based on a few posters continually posting as though they know exactly how things went down, and then you become an idiot of you question it.
You do realize that the guy you are quoting PLAYED for Sherrill, has a distinction that makes him an answer to a trivia question at MSU(I'm not telling you what it is since he probably doesn't want everyone here knowing who he is) and has stayed close to the program right? Yea -- No one has any connections here**


For instance, this idea that State is Hud's dream school and that he wants more than anything to coach at State and would never leave. This is spouted as though obvious fact, yet the only thing I've seen anyone bring to the table is an article written after he was hired as an assistant saying that he grew up a State fan and wanted to coach here. If that's where it's coming from, that's pretty weak.
Jesus Christ man. The article is ANECDOTAL evidence. The fact is, it is WELL KNOWN PRIVATELY. Or, maybe you can link me to articles proving that Ole Miss was Freeze's dream job prior to his hiring? Can you? Yeah -- I didn't think so. That didn't stop us from realizing ahead of time that it was true. You are just trying your best to be contrarian.


I also continually see people claiming connections, yet they never mention, in any way, what their connections actually are. Sorry if I don't get on a message board and just believe everyone because they tell me they have connections.
IF "insiders" wanted to out themselves publicly -- they would be posting all the dirty secrets of the program themselves on a message board under their real name. I just told you what Thick's connections are -- is that good enough? Probably not for you huh.

[engie]

Furthermore, I'm sorry that I don't take "because Ole Miss hasn't played one in 10 years" as set in stone evidence on the Thursday night issue.

Then you are just being hardheaded for the sake of being hardheaded.

7 MSU Thursday night home games.
0 OM Thursday night home games.

And you don't think that's enough evidence to prove that Stricklin is consistently volunteering for that dumb shit?

[engie]

Nevermind the fact that you have no idea if Byrne could have gotten Drew, you think Drew could have gotten last year's pile of crap to the tourney? That is beyond delusional. The love child of John Wooden and Bobby Knight couldn't have taken our 6-8 healthy bodies to the NIT last year.

Was Ray not responsible for one recruiting class already? Injuries weren't his fault -- not having a full roster prior to injuries was.

[smootness]

Was Ray not responsible for one recruiting class already? Injuries weren't his fault -- not having a full roster prior to injuries was.

So Scott Drew would have filled that roster last year with guys good enough to have us in the Tourney? Please, you don't even believe that.

It doesn't help the long-term health of the program to scrap a few guys together at the last minute just to have a full roster. He had already signed Borchert, Applewhite, Davis, and Bloodman; go further than that in just finding bodies, and it starts to negatively impact the future.

Anyway, our roster prior to the injuries and off-court issues was:
Zeidaks
Shaun Smith
Steele
Lewis
Borchert
Bloodman
R. Johnson
Sword
Thomas
Ware
Davis
Applewhite

That's 12 players, so only one shy...unless you're also suggesting that Ray should have kept Zeidaks and Shaun Smith on the team.

[Thick]

I can tell you for sure that Scott Drew's name was discussed, but the concensus including Stricklin was that he was too "hot" on the NCAA's watch list. The word was that he was going to be outed like Bruce Pearl for recruiting violations. I'm not making this up, but I am trying to share what I know about the bball search.

Also, if we finish 4-8, changes have to be made at season' send. That would put us at 4-13 in our last 17. Like I said earlier, Stricklin is going to have to prove that he has the gonads for this job. If no changes are made, then Stricklin will lose the fans, alums, boosters, etc., which equates to revenue loss, reduction in donations and attendance.

"Love makes the world go around, but MONEY greases the wheel".

[smootness]

You do realize that the guy you are quoting PLAYED for Sherrill, has a distinction that makes him an answer to a trivia question at MSU(I'm not telling you what it is since he probably doesn't want everyone here knowing who he is) and has stayed close to the program right? Yea -- No one has any connections here**

The post I quoted from Thick didn't say anything about his connections, and I wasn't responding to him when I said that; it was a general statement, one that I still stand by. I said that I don't believe there are many message board posters who have actual connections, certainly not the number who say things as though they know what is happening behind the scenes. Heck, even most former players probably don't really know how decisions are made. And again, this doesn't have anything to do with Thick personally. You gave me one person who seems to have some direct connection to the program. Thank you.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

Then you are just being hardheaded for the sake of being hardheaded.

7 MSU Thursday night home games.
0 OM Thursday night home games.

And you don't think that's enough evidence to prove that Stricklin is consistently volunteering for that dumb shit?

Well, for one, your data goes back well before Stricklin got here. And, no. That in and of itself does not prove anything. All that does is help cement something in your own mind. I am not going to say that we have no say in when or if we play a Thursday night game, but lately you have been taking great pains to skew things that are not black and white to the point where you can claim that they are black and white and that they support your opinions.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

I can tell you for sure that Scott Drew's name was discussed, but the concensus including Stricklin was that he was too "hot" on the NCAA's watch list. The word was that he was going to be outed like Bruce Pearl for recruiting violations. I'm not making this up, but I am trying to share what I know about the bball search.

Also, if we finish 4-8, changes have to be made at season' send. That would put us at 4-13 in our last 17. Like I said earlier, Stricklin is going to have to prove that he has the gonads for this job. If no changes are made, then Stricklin will lose the fans, alums, boosters, etc., which equates to revenue loss, reduction in donations and attendance.

"Love makes the world go around, but MONEY greases the wheel".

So, in that instance he did, in fact, listen to those around him? I'm pretty confused about when he listens, when he doesn't, when he is a yes man, and when he tells everyone to **** off.

I don't disagree with your second paragraph though.

[engie]

So Scott Drew would have filled that roster last year with guys good enough to have us in the Tourney? Please, you don't even believe that.

It doesn't help the long-term health of the program to scrap a few guys together at the last minute just to have a full roster. He had already signed Borchert, Applewhite, Davis, and Bloodman; go further than that in just finding bodies, and it starts to negatively impact the future.

Anyway, our roster prior to the injuries and off-court issues was:
Zeidaks
Shaun Smith
Steele
Lewis
Borchert
Bloodman
R. Johnson
Sword
Thomas
Ware
Davis
Applewhite

That's 12 players, so only one shy...unless you're also suggesting that Ray should have kept Zeidaks and Shaun Smith on the team.

Zeidaks and Shaun Smith were cut months before the season.

I'm saying he should have filled the roster with decent scholarship players -- and worried about the numbers the next year when he signed a selective class. These aren't 4 year scholarships these kids are signing -- and if that's how he's approaching it, we're already screwed ala Polk.

Where did I say that I thought Scott Drew could have had us in the tournament in year 1? I didn't. But Ray has laid 2 pretty big goose eggs in recruiting thusfar. I think Drew would have had us more talented in year 1 -- yes I do.

[engie]

Well, for one, your data goes back well before Stricklin got here. And, no. That in and of itself does not prove anything. All that does is help cement something in your own mind. I am not going to say that we have no say in when or if we play a Thursday night game, but lately you have been taking great pains to skew things that are not black and white to the point where you can claim that they are black and white and that they support your opinions.

7-0 is "skewing"?

LOL K

I PROVED that ESPN is only contractually obliged 2 Thursday night games.
Thus, I PROVED we could have told them to **** themselves on both Thursday games this year.
The fact that we didn't points to weak leadership.

Or -- maybe you can highlight to me what else it may point to? Since we're such a huge tv draw that they are repeatedly demanding us on Thursdays -- while OM gets to avoid that altogether?

Since I'm the one with the agenda -- explain it to me how this is realistically possible without what I'm saying being true...if you can?

[Thick]

So, in that instance he did, in fact, listen to those around him? I'm pretty confused about when he listens, when he doesn't, when he is a yes man, and when he tells everyone to **** off.

I don't disagree with your second paragraph though.

I cannot nor will I get into the specifics of the Ray hire. Know this as truth, he's kissing those boosters' asses every chance he gets.

"You don't shit where you eat". Lesson learned....book it!

[Barking 13]

as far as the Thursday night games, they probably take them because, up till now, it was pretty much the only game in town. It was a way to get exposure for the university on ESPN vs. an obscure Saturday game on BFE channel or CSS, if televised at all... The OSU game (which many still cry about) was the same type gig. National exposure with a (reasonably) BEATABLE pre-season top 15 opponent which could have jump started our year.... not the AD's fault. The team was not prepared for that game... (coaching)

ETA: ^^^ not to mention the $$$$

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

7-0 is "skewing"?

LOL K

I PROVED that ESPN is only contractually obliged 2 Thursday night games.
Thus, I PROVED we could have told them to **** themselves on both Thursday games this year.
The fact that we didn't points to weak leadership.

Or -- maybe you can highlight to me what else it may point to? Since we're such a huge tv draw that they are repeatedly demanding us on Thursdays -- while OM gets to avoid that altogether?

Since I'm the one with the agenda -- explain it to me how this is realistically possible without what I'm saying being true...if you can?

Again, you are painting things that are not black and white as if they are. The fact that we didn't tell ESPN to **** of does not automatically mean weak leadership, even though it clearly does in your mind. Arguing with you is like trying to tear down the Great Wall of China with a spoon, yet you call me hard-headed. So I will leave you to your stat manipulations.

[FlabLoser]

as far as the Thursday night games, they probably take them because, up till now, it was pretty much the only game in town. It was a way to get exposure for the university on ESPN vs. an obscure Saturday game on BFE channel or CSS, if televised at all... The OSU game (which many still cry about) was the same type gig. National exposure with a (reasonably) BEATABLE pre-season top 15 opponent which could have jump started our year.... not the AD's fault. The team was not prepared for that game... (coaching)

ETA: ^^^ not to mention the $$$$

I agree with this. There was poor wisdom in scheduling that game. But that loss was 100% on the coaches & players. Its not like we scheduled LSU for opening day.

[Homedawg]

Zeidaks and Shaun Smith were cut months before the season.

I'm saying he should have filled the roster with decent scholarship players -- and worried about the numbers the next year when he signed a selective class. These aren't 4 year scholarships these kids are signing -- and if that's how he's approaching it, we're already screwed ala Polk.

Where did I say that I thought Scott Drew could have had us in the tournament in year 1? I didn't. But Ray has laid 2 pretty big goose eggs in recruiting thusfar. I think Drew would have had us more talented in year 1 -- yes I do.

One thing to keep in mind- he was already in an APR potential situation. By adding "bodies" and cutting them that would have added to the problem. Especially since it would have been doing that. Adding bodies and not players worth a crap.

[maroonmania]

I cannot nor will I get into the specifics of the Ray hire. Know this as truth, he's kissing those boosters' asses every chance he gets.

"You don't shit where you eat". Lesson learned....book it!

I assume his father-in-law is one of the biggest basketball boosters we have. I would assume he at least took some input from him.

[maroonmania]

Then you are just being hardheaded for the sake of being hardheaded.

7 MSU Thursday night home games.
0 OM Thursday night home games.

And you don't think that's enough evidence to prove that Stricklin is consistently volunteering for that dumb shit?

Engie, you have unquestionably proven that we play TH night games because we agree to play them when others in the SEC won't. If it weren't voluntary you would have OM (for example) and other SEC teams playing them as well that don't. There is no special rule that forces MSU to play on TH night while excepting others, that's ridiculous. And at least for the kickoff game I believe we made about a 2 million dollar payday whereas the TH night games I believe we get very little in the way of extra revenue.

[maroonmania]

I can tell you for sure that Scott Drew's name was discussed, but the concensus including Stricklin was that he was too "hot" on the NCAA's watch list. The word was that he was going to be outed like Bruce Pearl for recruiting violations. I'm not making this up, but I am trying to share what I know about the bball search.

Also, if we finish 4-8, changes have to be made at season' send. That would put us at 4-13 in our last 17. Like I said earlier, Stricklin is going to have to prove that he has the gonads for this job. If no changes are made, then Stricklin will lose the fans, alums, boosters, etc., which equates to revenue loss, reduction in donations and attendance.

"Love makes the world go around, but MONEY greases the wheel".

Even we go 5-7 and finish with a convincing loss to OM Stricklin is going to have a tough decision. If that is the way the season unfolds (4-8 or 5-7 with a lopsided OM loss) and we don't make a change then to say the fanbase will lack enthusiasm next year will be a vast understatement.

[engie]

5-7 would put us at 6-12 over our last 18 -- with wins over:
BCS #96 Kentucky barely
BCS #86 Troy decisively. Best game Mullen has put together in a long time.
BCS #81 Bowling Green barely
FCS Alcorn
BCS #76 Arkansas
Sagarin #65 Arkansas(can't find full bcs rankings from last year)

We would have finished 2012 at Sagarin #52 -- and currently BCS #62 and likely to fall.

Bottom line is -- we've GOT to have a quality win -- and OM is our last chance to do it.

We will BLEED $5mil+ in cash next year off the lost excitement and interest in our fanbase if we finish with a loss in the Egg and major, encompassing changes aren't made.

[RiverCityDawg]

Zeidaks and Shaun Smith were cut months before the season.

Where did I say that I thought Scott Drew could have had us in the tournament in year 1? I didn't.

Cut months before the season like 3 months before, but LONG after signing day and any chance to replace them.

I was referring to MarketingBully who said Drew would already have us in the tourney. Since we've just started year 2, "already" has to mean year 1.

[smootness]

Zeidaks and Shaun Smith were cut months before the season.

I'm saying he should have filled the roster with decent scholarship players -- and worried about the numbers the next year when he signed a selective class. These aren't 4 year scholarships these kids are signing -- and if that's how he's approaching it, we're already screwed ala Polk.

Where did I say that I thought Scott Drew could have had us in the tournament in year 1? I didn't. But Ray has laid 2 pretty big goose eggs in recruiting thusfar. I think Drew would have had us more talented in year 1 -- yes I do.

There was no chance to replace Zeidaks and Smith, that was my point.

And I don't know what you think we should be doing in terms of roster management, but there isn't a coach in the country who would sign a few kids to scholarships and then not renew any of them the following year. Your suggestion that Ray should approach it this way is absurd. You would irreparably damage your ability to recruit forever.