Next years pitching rotation

[preachermatt83]

Anyone wanna take a swing at this question?

[Bass Chaser]

Fri-TBD
Sat-TBD
Sun-TBD
**

[Homedawg]

Fristoe, Cade Smith...... tbd.

[Turfdawg67]

Fri-TBD
Sat-TBD
Sun-TBD
**

Lolz! Well played.

[Todd4State]

Fristoe, Cade Smith...... tbd.

I agree. My TBD would probably be between Tepper, Kohn, Hunt, Rokose, Walling if we get him, and maybe Smith and Sims.

Going to be a battle for that Sunday spot. I think I like Hunt the best for now.

[confucius say]

Could move sims to the rotation

[HoopsDawg]

As of now, I would say Fristoe, Cade Smith, and Tepper.

[KOdawg1]

Fristoe, Smith, Tepper would be my choice

[Todd4State]

Could move sims to the rotation

Potentially depending on how he develops in the offseason.

[Todd4State]

I think Lemonis is going to go Fristoe, Cade Smith, and then Brandon Smith personally.

[AlSwearengen]

I think Lemonis is going to go Fristoe, Cade Smith, and then Brandon Smith personally.

And if Tepper progresses, he could be a nice weapon along side Sims if we can get a lead.

[confucius say]

There is also a chance CMac comes back.

[Coach34]

It's Fristoe and Cade (barring injury) and then the battle for Sunday. I dont see Sims ever being a SP because of his intensity and demeanor. He is the perfect pen guy.

We have plenty of young arms and It's nice to have.

[Homedawg]

There is also a chance CMac comes back.

Maybe he does. But doesn't make much sense for him career wise. He's maxed out velo wise basically. He is what he is draft wise. Now he does have an extra year of leverage but still. Just don't see it.

[Homedawg]

It's Fristoe and Cade (barring injury) and then the battle for Sunday. I dont see Sims ever being a SP because of his intensity and demeanor. He is the perfect pen guy.

We have plenty of young arms and It's nice to have.

Agree w all points. Sims is a max effort guy. And a dang good one we will have plenty of Sunday options.

[R2Dawg]

It's Fristoe and Cade (barring injury) and then the battle for Sunday. I dont see Sims ever being a SP because of his intensity and demeanor. He is the perfect pen guy.

We have plenty of young arms and It's nice to have.

Boy agree on Sims. He is a special guy closing and it is a different mentality in that role. If I am Sims I'd ask for a few more innings work next year and he'll be high in the draft.

Although I'm not sure he comes back next year. Many have said is high on the draft board as a closer already.

[Bulldog1]

Boy agree on Sims. He is a special guy closing and it is a different mentality in that role. If I am Sims I'd ask for a few more innings work next year and he'll be high in the draft.

Although I'm not sure he comes back next year. Many have said is high on the draft board as a closer already.

He's just a sophomore...

[Homedawg]

Boy agree on Sims. He is a special guy closing and it is a different mentality in that role. If I am Sims I'd ask for a few more innings work next year and he'll be high in the draft.

Although I'm not sure he comes back next year. Many have said is high on the draft board as a closer already.

He's not draft eligible he's back

[Homedawg]

He's just a sophomore...

Technically, he's a fr!! Ha. But barring injury he won't see a forth year. But I knew what ya meant

[R2Dawg]

He's not draft eligible he's back

OK so I don't keep up with MLB draft rules.

So let me get this straight. A kid can go straight out of high school to MLB but a soph in college can't? OK that makes lots of sense.

[99jc]

with the transfer portal open now don't be surprised if we pull in some aces from other teams...just saying.

[Coach34]

OK so I don't keep up with MLB draft rules.

So let me get this straight. A kid can go straight out of high school to MLB but a soph in college can't? OK that makes lots of sense.

You either go straight out of HS or if you go to college- you have to go for 3 years or until you're 21. That should the rule for all sports

[The Federalist Engineer]

with the transfer portal open now don't be surprised if we pull in some aces from other teams...just saying.

Many mid major programs will become minor league clubs for the bigger schools. We should keep an eye on Midwest and Northeast kids.

Tuition is so high for them, coming to MSU is a big cost savings. Plus better baseball.

[TNDawg35]

Wonder if we could talk that Tulane Friday night guy into coming. We could supply plenty of pine tar***

[BrunswickDawg]

Many mid major programs will become minor league clubs for the bigger schools. We should keep an eye on Midwest and Northeast kids.

Tuition is so high for them, coming to MSU is a big cost savings. Plus better baseball.

College and JUCO baseball is definitely going to benefit from the reduction in the draft and in MiL teams. Hate it for some of those cities that lost long time clubs - but we may be about to see the best era of college baseball talent since MLB began the draft.
Now, we just have to get the P5 to break away and allow 35 scholarships and we are set.

[trob115]

College and JUCO baseball is definitely going to benefit from the reduction in the draft and in MiL teams. Hate it for some of those cities that lost long time clubs - but we may be about to see the best era of college baseball talent since MLB began the draft.
Now, we just have to get the P5 to break away and allow 35 scholarships and we are set.

Heck even getting 20 scholarships would drastically improve things.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Heck even getting 20 scholarships would drastically improve things.

20 scholarships would help things tremendously. It would even the playing field with Vandy because it would allow us to get some of these kids we lose to the draft every year. Not every one of them, but it would lessen your losses. It would give you a fighting chance to get guys like Blaze Jordan or James Wood to campus. However, not enough programs outside of the South give enough of a crap about baseball for it to succeed.

[R2Dawg]

You either go straight out of HS or if you go to college- you have to go for 3 years or until you're 21. That should the rule for all sports

I agree with the last part and it makes sense to also do across all sports but the first part make no sense at all.

So you can go as an immature 18 year old and an older more mature but can go in the middle? Stupid. I guess using today's progressive logic.

[Coach34]

Well- college just isnt for everyone. Not to mention MLB is willing to throw millions at some of these guys out of Hs. I preferred the old rule of straight out of HS or 3 years college.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Well- college just isnt for everyone. Not to mention MLB is willing to throw millions at some of these guys out of Hs. I preferred the old rule of straight out of HS or 3 years college.

Agreed. If a kid wants to go straight out of high school more power to him. Will he succeed? Probably not. Especially at the NFL and NBA level. But they're 18 years old and if a kid can go straight out of a high school and get a job in the real world then an athlete should be able to do the same IMO. It should be their decision, but if they do come to college then they need to stay at the very least two years.

[99jc]

Agreed. If a kid wants to go straight out of high school more power to him. Will he succeed? Probably not. Especially at the NFL and NBA level. But they're 18 years old and if a kid can go straight out of a high school and get a job in the real world then an athlete should be able to do the same IMO. It should be their decision, but if they do come to college then they need to stay at the very least two years.

Why 2 years in college, its not a legal commitment a person should be able to go pro whenever they want! But nothing in this world makes sense anymore.

[BrunswickDawg]

I agree with the last part and it makes sense to also do across all sports but the first part make no sense at all.

So you can go as an immature 18 year old and an older more mature but can go in the middle? Stupid. I guess using today's progressive logic.

It's what we have been doing in baseball for almost 50 years - so how is it today's progressive logic? To me it is not about maturity - it's about commitment. If you are good enough to get drafted by any sport at 18, great go for it. But, if you sign to play in college you are signing a contract just like you would for the team that drafted you. I think 3 years is a reasonable commitment to make - especially now if you are allowed a 1 time transfer without sitting out. It think along with that, you should be draft eligible in all sports after 3 years and not have to declare or risk eligibility for your possible 4th and 5th seasons (if you redshirted). This has worked very well for baseball, and would work just as well for the NBA and NFL

[Commercecomet24]

It's what we have been doing in baseball for almost 50 years - so how is it today's progressive logic? To me it is not about maturity - it's about commitment. If you are good enough to get drafted by any sport at 18, great go for it. But, if you sign to play in college you are signing a contract just like you would for the team that drafted you. I think 3 years is a reasonable commitment to make - especially now if you are allowed a 1 time transfer without sitting out. It think along with that, you should be draft eligible in all sports after 3 years and not have to declare or risk eligibility for your possible 4th and 5th seasons (if you redshirted). This has worked very well for baseball, and would work just as well for the NBA and NFL

Yeah this rule has been around as long as I have lol.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Why 2 years in college, its not a legal commitment a person should be able to go pro whenever they want! But nothing in this world makes sense anymore.

Because you are getting a scholarship to go to school. I'm sure the programs would want some assurance that they're not just getting a rental or that at the first sign they don't get their way then they're going to leave the team.

[Really Clark?]

Why 2 years in college, its not a legal commitment a person should be able to go pro whenever they want! But nothing in this world makes sense anymore.

You do understand that it?s the pro leagues and their player unions who make these legal contracts concerning draft eligibility, correct? It?s been that way for a very long time.

[schddog72]

Anyone wanna take a swing at this question?

Friday - Who's on first.
Saturday - What's on second.
Sunday - I don't know.

[BeardoMSU]

Friday - Who's on first.
Saturday - What's on second.
Sunday - I don't know.

Does Costello play baseball?**

[The Federalist Engineer]

You do understand that it?s the pro leagues and their player unions who make these legal contracts concerning draft eligibility, correct? It?s been that way for a very long time.

99jc makes a sound Liberty oriented argument.

Say an engineering student is really great and Space X wants him as a freshman. He can interview and even go work. No big deal, it’s his private business.

Older engineers cant decide that he is “too young” or must get some fictional certificate, he may even work at Space X and the switch to Lockheed or Boeing. No restrictions. The companies may not conspire to say, we only hire people after engineering grad school.

Only in American sports is conclusion the norm. If properly challenged, it’s a black and white property right issue. My talent is my private property to utilize.

[Coach34]

99jc makes a sound Liberty oriented argument.

Say an engineering student is really great and Space X wants him as a freshman. He can interview and even go work. No big deal, it’s his private business.

Older engineers cant decide that he is “too young” or must get some fictional certificate, he may even work at Space X and the switch to Lockheed or Boeing. No restrictions. The companies may not conspire to say, we only hire people after engineering grad school.

Only in American sports is conclusion the norm. If properly challenged, it’s a black and white property right issue. My talent is my private property to utilize.

Sports isn’t real life tho- that’s why it can’t be compared. It’s entertainment. Just like musicians and actors. They are entertainers

[HoopsDawg]

99jc makes a sound Liberty oriented argument.

Say an engineering student is really great and Space X wants him as a freshman. He can interview and even go work. No big deal, it’s his private business.

Older engineers cant decide that he is “too young” or must get some fictional certificate, he may even work at Space X and the switch to Lockheed or Boeing. No restrictions. The companies may not conspire to say, we only hire people after engineering grad school.

Only in American sports is conclusion the norm. If properly challenged, it’s a black and white property right issue. My talent is my private property to utilize.

You could be a talented surgeon, but you still have to go to medical school.

[Really Clark?]

99jc makes a sound Liberty oriented argument.

Say an engineering student is really great and Space X wants him as a freshman. He can interview and even go work. No big deal, it’s his private business.

Older engineers cant decide that he is “too young” or must get some fictional certificate, he may even work at Space X and the switch to Lockheed or Boeing. No restrictions. The companies may not conspire to say, we only hire people after engineering grad school.

Only in American sports is conclusion the norm. If properly challenged, it’s a black and white property right issue. My talent is my private property to utilize.

That wasn’t really what he was arguing though. The individual can’t just declare himself a Professional and go do whatever. Even your example doesn’t hold up with a lot of professional careers. There are many that require that the individual met certain criteria to become a Professional. You can’t go 2 years of undergrad and declare yourself a Doctor, Lawyer, CPA, even engineers. He may be able to act like an engineer for a certain company and do well for what they need, but a lot of states require him to be licensed and with that license he has to have a degree to work in that state as an engineer. There are many legal oversights to becoming a professional in many many careers.

[R2Dawg]

It's what we have been doing in baseball for almost 50 years - so how is it today's progressive logic? To me it is not about maturity - it's about commitment. If you are good enough to get drafted by any sport at 18, great go for it. But, if you sign to play in college you are signing a contract just like you would for the team that drafted you. I think 3 years is a reasonable commitment to make - especially now if you are allowed a 1 time transfer without sitting out. It think along with that, you should be draft eligible in all sports after 3 years and not have to declare or risk eligibility for your possible 4th and 5th seasons (if you redshirted). This has worked very well for baseball, and would work just as well for the NBA and NFL

Not about the age of the rule. It has no logic. If a soph isn't mature enough, how is a high school kid? They don't let kids do it in football? Why not? Who determines maturity? It ain't about age. Again no logic. That is the progressive part - there is no logic. Newsflash, progressives, leftist etc. have been around longer than 50 years.

[R2Dawg]

Because you are getting a scholarship to go to school. I'm sure the programs would want some assurance that they're not just getting a rental or that at the first sign they don't get their way then they're going to leave the team.

So you realize the transfer portal and one year deals these days (another progressive idea) the rental is all there is right? First sign they don't get their way they are gone, ha, ha. You just described the entire culture and rules today.

[The Federalist Engineer]

That wasn’t really what he was arguing though. The individual can’t just declare himself a Professional and go do whatever. Even your example doesn’t hold up with a lot of professional careers. There are many that require that the individual met certain criteria to become a Professional. You can’t go 2 years of undergrad and declare yourself a Doctor, Lawyer, CPA, even engineers. He may be able to act like an engineer for a certain company and do well for what they need, but a lot of states require him to be licensed and with that license he has to have a degree to work in that state as an engineer. There are many legal oversights to becoming a professional in many many careers.

A test of skill is still liberty, not perfect but in the best interest of the profession and public. Like "show me that you understand mechanics, GAAP, thermodynamics, or structures".

What is not liberty is that you may not take the test unless you are 24-years-old, if the current people employed (the Guild) arbitrarily decide that only 8 people per year may pass, or if the currently employed (the Guild) want to tell private businesses who they may hire.

[99jc]

You could be a talented surgeon, but you still have to go to medical school.

A surgeon and a kid who plays with balls has no comparison....come on man!

[lawdawg]

A test of skill is still liberty, not perfect but in the best interest of the profession and public. Like "show me that you understand mechanics, GAAP, thermodynamics, or structures".

What is not liberty is that you may not take the test unless you are 24-years-old, if the current people employed (the Guild) arbitrarily decide that only 8 people per year may pass, or if the currently employed (the Guild) want to tell private businesses who they may hire.

But MLB - unlike the other fields you mention - is a monopsony.

[Really Clark?]

A test of skill is still liberty, not perfect but in the best interest of the profession and public. Like "show me that you understand mechanics, GAAP, thermodynamics, or structures".

What is not liberty is that you may not take the test unless you are 24-years-old, if the current people employed (the Guild) arbitrarily decide that only 8 people per year may pass, or if the currently employed (the Guild) want to tell private businesses who they may hire.

Private business is told all the time who they can hire by age. It’s in laws to protect people from being exploited by public or private business. And you still can’t open an engineering business and just declare yourself a professional engineer. While there is no age component to that, you do have to have a degree, a min of 4 years experience as an engineer in training and pass testing to become a professional engineer. Even a prodigy is going to be in their 20’s. Can’t run for many government offices without being a certain age either, but that is government criteria.

Now nobody honestly can say that athletes are the same as many of these professions but that was not the original argument the poster I replied to was making. You can’t just declare yourself a professional if you don’t met the criteria of the profession, i.e. the sports leagues and even more importantly that you have skipped over, the Players Union themselves have set these criteria. The players who you want to be included in have AGREED that this is in the best interest of their sport or Guild using your terminology.

I’ve known a couple of quasi-engineers who didn’t have their degree working for public companies, much less private. One was a really good engineer who needed just a little over a semester to have his degree. He was not titled an engineer for the company because they couldn’t legally and he wouldn’t be insurable either. He was listed as a technician. While he was non-bargaining he couldn’t be salaried. I knew one who worked for a private firm but he could never go above EIT, because while it was a private company, they dealt with the public and was a corporation. They are required to have a PE on staff or as a shareholder. He would never advance pass that entry level position, never be able to certify completed tasks on his own work, etc.

[basedog]

Man this thread didn't take long to change the subject*

[ShotgunDawg]

Fristoe, Sims, Smith

I know lots of people say Sims is max effort but I actually view him as high intent, not max effort. There is a difference.

Max Scherzer is high intent, Chris Sale can be high intent as well.

I'd stretch Sims out in the Fall as a starter and see how well he holds velocity. He's gone 4 innings a few times this year and held velo fine. No reason he can't start.

[Todd4State]

Fristoe, Sims, Smith

I know lots of people say Sims is max effort but I actually view him as high intent, not max effort. There is a difference.

Max Scherzer is high intent, Chris Sale can be high intent as well.

I'd stretch Sims out in the Fall as a starter and see how well he holds velocity. He's gone 4 innings a few times this year and held velo fine. No reason he can't start.

Brandon Smith or Cade Smith in your rotation? Just curious.

[ShotgunDawg]

Brandon Smith or Cade Smith in your rotation? Just curious.
Cade

Then Branden Smith and Tepper in the pen. Let Tepper be this year's Sims.

[basedog]

Cade

Then Branden Smith and Tepper in the pen. Let Tepper be this year's Sims.

I wouldn't totally disagree about Sims being stretched out next fall, but I think Sims future and money to make is in the pen. We have several guys who can or may start next year, me myself like Sims coming in to shut things down a couple times on the weekend versus one time weekend start. I can tell you Lemonis and Foxhall or very cautions not to overuse arms. Looking at OMAHA Coaching, it's crazy how they overuse arms, kid last night was lights out, but you could see when he reached 90 pitches he wasn't quite the same and no one was in the pen warming up. I realize they aren't deep or that talent in the pen department, but that is own their Coach. I guess he learned it from the master over "use pitching" Coach Bertman.

[ShotgunDawg]

I think Sims future and money to make is in the pen.

What makes you believe this?

Not saying you're wrong, but what's your reasoning?

Again, I cannot state loudly enough that Landon Sims has the best fastball command on our pitching staff. He could easily be a higher intent, explosive Gunner Hoglund next year as a starter.

[basedog]

What makes you believe this?

Not saying you're wrong, but what's your reasoning?

Just from what a few have told me. I do think it depends on what team drafts Sims and there needs, Sims may be the best closer in the country right now, he just seems fitted to the closer role.
But I'm not disagreeing what you say about him being a starter, not sure we need him as a starter next year, but we shall see. Seeing Sims trot out from the pen is like watching Mike Tyson or George Foreman entering the ring which put fear on their opponent, LOL!

Btw Gun, Cade is almost 100%, you will see a difference in his command in a few weeks, coaches have told him they are in no hurry right now with him. Man we have so many young arms just needing their chance, probably best or deepest staff in the country. Leads the country with strike outs, Polk said last nigh we have 13 straight games with 12 or more strikeout per game and he thought that was a record.